Ok, guys..here's " my " truth. Re my exhaust debacle. - Pontiac G8 Forum: G8 Forums - G8Board.com
Exhaust Tech Headers, Catbacks, Mufflers, lack of mufflers

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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, guys..here's " my " truth. Re my exhaust debacle.

My thought are as follows - re: J pipes.

I think that I had become addicted to a slight rasp and drone when I removed my rear mufflers and went to straight pipe /headers. When my friend ( g8k33pr ) got his exhaust done, I was even more addicted to the LOUD, obnoxious sound. I then put on J pipes Solo. and Magnaflow x pipe 2.5 inch( with mid muffler delete) I wasnt impressed first day. A few observations since........ I think my mind was playing tricks on me. I was subconsciously associating the louder rumble with power. Its like if you drive your car and its silent, one might think its not going as fast. Also, I'm noticing that YES, J pipes KILL drone. You can adjust the length to change depth of sound. I also noticed that once you step on the gas and hit high rpm, they actually come alive vs just tooling around town. I also suspect that my car somehow needed to adapt to this new configuration. ( is this even possible ?) Rear o2's deleted....... Today I took a 60 mile trip and I noticed that the car actually ran quite well as opposed to right after I put the J pipes on .

Now.... I need to make up my mind.. Do I want louder. Its as simple as that. If I do, I might have to lose the J pipes. This is where it gets tricky. How loud is too annoying whilst taking a long trip. My next step is to eliminate resonators ( since the j pipe is in some ways a resonator ). If that doesnt get me where I want, then I am going to increase pipe diameter from x pipe..... If still no luck, I will go ahead with the sale of J pipes and straight pipe it with small bullet Magnaflow mufflers to the tips.

Thanks so much for all input, it has been a GREAT help. Nice to know a community really wants to help :-)

My 2009 - With the usual suspects. Incl. - Pat G.

Last edited by IcudahadaG8; 03-18-2017 at 06:38 PM.
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 09:10 AM
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Like color choices it's a personal thing... I have X-Force Stainless steel Performance Exhaust with Varex Remote Control Mufflers to adjust the sound 4 mufflers in one.....No Drone sound Great...Love them.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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I have heard good things about X-Force. I'm going to look and see if maybe they just have a axle back.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 06:45 PM
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Yea, exhaust sounds are subjective; the J-pipes eliminate the deafening loud hum that makes it hard to hold a conversation in the cabin with some exhaust combinations and certain RPM's.... X pipe and resonator delete will surely alter the sound, might be too loud for some, too quiet for others. The J pipes target drone, while other exhaust modifications target loudness or raspiness.

Try some different combinations and see what works best for you!

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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@zep - That's the plan brotha!
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 09:03 AM
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You noticed the car ran better several days after the exhaust change. Perfectly normal. It took some driving to sort out the fuel trims. OP you might want to wait a bit. I know my Solo Mach balanced has gotten louder than the day it was installed. WOT is now louder.

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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 09:10 AM
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I thought that I wanted an extremely loud note as well but I found a combination that suits my highway and in-town driving. I've installed percy's long tube headers which deleted the cats, and a Mach shorty cat back kit. It's a nice mello tone while cruising but as soon as you get into it, it changes dramatically.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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That's where I'm confused, How can the fuel trims change, when there is no rear O2 sensors to monitor what is happening with the exhaust.. anything that happens after the Upstream O2 sensors really shouldn't have any effect if you delete the rear O2 sensors. That's what I had believed anyways. That's why you get a custom tune and set everything.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 01:01 PM
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No mate it's the front sensors that monitor lambda for fuel trim.


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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 01:22 PM
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J-Pipes will not alter the overall "loudness" of the entire exhaust. They only eliminate those frequencies that will cause headaches.

All other things you note about them are completely coincidental. If you remove them, it's only to give yourself or your passengers a headache. Anyone outside the vehicle will not notice a difference.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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@ PIR4TE

Ha, right, ..But.... if there is no capability to measure at the rear o2's to monitor any difference in exhaust, there cant be any way to send needed info to ECM. The Upstream 02s do adjust fuel trim, but they do that before the cat. So any exhaust changes wouldnt be picked up by the upstream o2s ( only rear o2s ) . I guess what im saying is that if you have rear o2s tuned out, any exhaust mods AFTER the header collector that holds the upstream 02, should not have any effect on adjusting fuel trim. Thats why I cant understand why the car is running better than the first day after I put on X pipe/J pipes. ?????????

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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@ SLizzo -

So are you saying that straight pipes from axle back are not louder outside of cabin vs J pipes ?

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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 03:17 PM
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My first mod I did was the solo axle back exhaust(j pipe). Wasnt the sound I was quite looking for. So I did the mid-muffler delete and installed an x-pipe in its place. Sounds perfect! Exactly the sound I was after. BUT I took it a step further and installed dual electric cutouts right before the x-pipe, and I couldnt be more pleased. Sounds like its cammed.
So install Cutouts. So that you get the best of both worlds at the flip of a button.

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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@ NME208

Interesting concept - cut outs.... What do they run ?$$$ Easy install ? Im into this exhaust 1,800. I was a dumba$$. Tried to save money, and its been a jigsaw puzzle. If cutouts are too pricey, might have to pass .

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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 03:32 PM
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As for your car running better. I think you are talking about acceleration and basically low end torque. And that has to do with backpressure. Now now hold your horses everyone lol I know everyone claims it to be a myth. And yes backpressure will rob you of Hp, I am not denying that. But I've tested this with my electric cutouts and the difference is definitely noticeable. I understand you have to let your car "relearn" its settings. So I let my car run open/closed for a week straight each, and ran at the track. My 60 with it open was 2.3. The 60 with cutouts closed was 2.1. BUT my mph was higher with Open cutouts.
This the "drive better" feeling you are talking about. A little more torque at low end rpms.

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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcudahadaG8 View Post
@ NME208

Interesting concept - cut outs.... What do they run ?$$$ Easy install ? Im into this exhaust 1,800. I was a dumba$$. Tried to save money, and its been a jigsaw puzzle. If cutouts are too pricey, might have to pass .
They were $450 for the pair with 4 year warranty. Local shop installed them for $100 which I think was a steal.

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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcudahadaG8 View Post
@ PIR4TE



Ha, right, ..But.... if there is no capability to measure at the rear o2's to monitor any difference in exhaust, there cant be any way to send needed info to ECM. The Upstream 02s do adjust fuel trim, but they do that before the cat. So any exhaust changes wouldnt be picked up by the upstream o2s ( only rear o2s ) . I guess what im saying is that if you have rear o2s tuned out, any exhaust mods AFTER the header collector that holds the upstream 02, should not have any effect on adjusting fuel trim. Thats why I cant understand why the car is running better than the first day after I put on X pipe/J pipes. ?????????

I turned rears off, have one dangling in the wind. Post cat is not part of the tune whatsoever just a diagnostic. Most tunes use front O2 for trims only.
Post (front) sensor exhaust gas velocity and flow does certainly affect performance.
As noted I suspect what you have observed is the trade-off between torque (velocity with mufflers) and flow (HP without).
Having built several headers and spent tens of thousands tuning naturally aspirated performance from this car, I reckon is best to err on the side of higher escape velocity vs oversized slow flow unless you are building a drag car
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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Good info, .. Now my head is going to explode .... LMAO, I think Im going to cut and paste this system untill I get desired results. Whats your opinion of this............... I just leave the J pipes on. I cut the " U " shape off the J pipe, and cap and weld the hole. This would essentially leave me with straight pipe once again.......... Then, I remove resonators, and insert inline small bullet style mufflers. I then increase diameter of piping to and from X pipe to 2.75 . Thoughts ?

My 2009 - With the usual suspects. Incl. - Pat G.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by IcudahadaG8 View Post
@ SLizzo -

So are you saying that straight pipes from axle back are not louder outside of cabin vs J pipes ?
Right. It's still straight pipe to the tips. The tube just captures and reflects a specific sound frequency range back up the exhaust to effectively cancel that sound.

Overall decibel level remains the same.

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 07:01 PM
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I'm glad somebody still believes in this stuff.
Trucks- not so much.
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