The Timing Chain Repair - P0008 - Pontiac G8 Forum: G8 Forums - G8Board.com
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post #1 of 125 (permalink) Old 04-30-2013, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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The Timing Chain Repair - P0008

Some of you may already know this from my post in the other thread, but for those of you who don't I recently got the dreaded P0008 code for a stretched timing chain. After going to a couple dealers because my car is under warranty and being told it would take a month, that I could not get a rental because I am only 20, and that the engine needed to come out (which it doesn't), I decided that the only way to do it right was to do it myself. If they think the engine has to come out, that says it all right there because they clearly do not know what they are talking about.

So I proceeded to do some research and I found the ACDelco service kit which includes the three chains, both valve cover gaskets, three tensioners, and all the gaskets and seals for the job all for $190 shipped. Small price to pay as opposed to not having a car to go to work for a month. I also bought some permatex anaerobic sealant which I like to use to seal aluminum casting to aluminum casting, which would be to seal the timing cover to the block in this case.

I hope to start the teardown this Saturday and either finish that day or Sunday, depending how it goes.

Some pictures:



That's the code on my Snap-On Solus



The Service Kit



Close Up of the Chains and Tensioners



I will post pics as I do it, and maybe some ambitious people will take on the job themselves if they have this problem in the future if I make a good write up. As far as I know I would be the first on this board to do it themselves, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Updates are coming soon!
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post #2 of 125 (permalink) Old 04-30-2013, 05:58 PM
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Awesome thread! You've got my interest. Thanx for posting it up and good luck on the repair job.

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post #3 of 125 (permalink) Old 04-30-2013, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AuggieDosta View Post
Awesome thread! You've got my interest. Thanx for posting it up and good luck on the repair job.

Thank you, and what an honor to have a GXP guy interested in a V6 timing chain repair...thats different! haha


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post #4 of 125 (permalink) Old 04-30-2013, 06:11 PM
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Have you executed a search for posts by briggy?
You might find some help in his timing chain replcement/top end rebuild.
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post #5 of 125 (permalink) Old 04-30-2013, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kgenesse View Post
Thank you, and what an honor to have a GXP guy interested in a V6 timing chain repair...thats different! haha
I just went through this job on a Chrysler V6. It had a belt vs a chain. The entire process was fairly simple even though the majority of the front end had to come out. Part of one day for the entire job and another 2 hours on a 2nd day to fix a problem.

I'm interested in how the G8's V6 goes so take a bunch of pics.

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post #6 of 125 (permalink) Old 04-30-2013, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Perhaps View Post
Have you executed a search for posts by briggy?
You might find some help in his timing chain replcement/top end rebuild.
I actually read it on a different board but just realized now it was posted on this one.


AuggieDosta - I will be sure to make a good write up about the whole job.


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post #7 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-04-2013, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, I tore into it today. Here's what it looks like:





This pulley broke my nuts trying to take it off. It has no holes in it to use a harmonic balancer puller. I ended up using a three jaw puller and taking the 'jaws' off and putting the pieces through the holes in the balancer and putting bolts through them as shown in the second picture











I will do a write up when I have more time, but here are the pics I have.


2008 Pontiac G8 | LY7 V6 | 6L50 AT Conversion | 3.45 LSD Rear Differential | Panther Black Metallic | GT Tail Lamps | Red Leather Seats | GXP Rear Diffuser

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post #8 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-06-2013, 03:59 PM
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Thanks for the write-up on changing the timing chain. Random question... does the timing chain revolve faster as the engine rpm's increase? Or does it rotate at a constant speed?

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post #9 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-06-2013, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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That wasn't really a write-up, it was just a few pics for now till I get the time lol.

And yes, the timing chain's speed increases with engine speed.


2008 Pontiac G8 | LY7 V6 | 6L50 AT Conversion | 3.45 LSD Rear Differential | Panther Black Metallic | GT Tail Lamps | Red Leather Seats | GXP Rear Diffuser

1957 Oldsmobile 98 | 371 Rocket V8 | J2 3x2 Tri Power| Jetaway Dual Coupling Hydra-Matic | Sierra Gold | Magnaflow Dual Exhaust | Autronic Eye
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post #10 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-06-2013, 05:32 PM
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That wasn't really a write-up, it was just a few pics for now till I get the time lol.And yes, the timing chain's speed increases with engine speed.
:-l. I thought so, although I was told otherwise. Last question, do you think taking it easy in the car would extend the life of the timing chain? Or is there absolutely zero correlation between the two?

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post #11 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-06-2013, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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First of all, let me say this...the timing chain of an LY7 is smaller than the drive chain of a 50cc dirt bike, and is hardly bigger than a bicycle chain. This isn't like the chain on a small block chevy or a big iron V8 like on my '57 olds. They're cheap, and poor quality if you ask me.

Now, surely one who doesn't beat on the car and routinely changes oil will get longer life out of it and this is why a lot of people have had it fail out of warranty. I drive my car hard...and when I say hard, I mean that I don't think anyone on here beats their LY7 as much as I do. Plus with a 3.45 rear end, I am already having more revolutions per mile. This is why my chain failed under warranty. Not that I took it to the dealer, but the car only has 89k on it, so I could have.

Do I think that abuse is the sole reason for this failure? Absolutely not, I do think that these chains are poorly made and I've seen many timing BELTS outlast these chains. I don't think many will see 150k+ on these chains without catastrophic failure if they are already stretching enough to allow 6 degrees of difference between the crank and camshafts at around 100k.

But I do encourage frequent oil changes, and I am an advocate of synthetic oil. Not that it helped my case, but this might've happened 20k miles ago if I hadn't been a maintenance freak.


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post #12 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-06-2013, 06:06 PM
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Well said and thanks for your input. On a different note, I know Cloyes makes a timing chain kit (9-0753S) with most (if not all) of the things needed for the installation, so I wonder if their chains are any stronger / more durable than the General Motors pieces. Will see if I can find any additional information on their website. However, I have zero experience with any of their products.



Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like the kit lacks the valve cover gaskets and some seals. Last thing, looks like this is an American made product, so for some, may be more of an incentive to purchase if the need arises.

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post #13 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-06-2013, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgenesse View Post
First of all, let me say this...the timing chain of an LY7 is smaller than the drive chain of a 50cc dirt bike, and is hardly bigger than a bicycle chain. This isn't like the chain on a small block chevy or a big iron V8 like on my '57 olds. They're cheap, and poor quality if you ask me.

Now, surely one who doesn't beat on the car and routinely changes oil will get longer life out of it and this is why a lot of people have had it fail out of warranty. I drive my car hard...and when I say hard, I mean that I don't think anyone on here beats their LY7 as much as I do. Plus with a 3.45 rear end, I am already having more revolutions per mile. This is why my chain failed under warranty. Not that I took it to the dealer, but the car only has 89k on it, so I could have.

Do I think that abuse is the sole reason for this failure? Absolutely not, I do think that these chains are poorly made and I've seen many timing BELTS outlast these chains. I don't think many will see 150k+ on these chains without catastrophic failure if they are already stretching enough to allow 6 degrees of difference between the crank and camshafts at around 100k.

But I do encourage frequent oil changes, and I am an advocate of synthetic oil. Not that it helped my case, but this might've happened 20k miles ago if I hadn't been a maintenance freak.
+1

And wow at the level of removal needed to change this chain!

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post #14 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-06-2013, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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+1

And wow at the level of removal needed to change this chain!

You have no idea. Intake manifold, lower plenum, valve covers, power steering pump, A/C compressor AND bracket (got them through the wheel opening), crank pulley, water pump pulley, and a mess of wires. And when I took the timing cover all the coolant went into the oil pan. So I couldn't save it. The A/C bracket was the hardest part of the whole damn job, I am putting it all together tomorrow.

Many say you need to take off the alternator, but I got the cover off with a pry bar and put it on with a small hammer just by tapping it. It rubs the alternator but certainly not worth removing it to make it hardly easier.


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post #15 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-07-2013, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, we are back in business.

I put the car together minus the a/c compressor and power steering and changed the oil. I didn't change the filter just yet because I wanted the old one to catch whatever debris might float around on the first road test. I started it up, and it ran fine. I then put the rest together and drove it. It was down on power...like ALOT. I started giving it harder accelerations, and when I did a 3/4 throttle the check engine light came on. I scanned it and it was a P0011, which is a type of variable valve timing issue with the bank 1 intake cam. I took the solenoid out and switched it with another, but I cleaned them both in the process and then I put another oil filter in it and I noticed that the oil pressure on my sport gauges went up a good amount. I drove the car hard and the light never came back. There are no noises, no CEL, and the car feels like a new car. No hesitation on acceleration/downshifting, the trans shifts better and it is NOT an illusion...it is night and day.

I'm going to do a step by step guide for someone who wants to do this themselves. I don't recommend it for someone who has never played around with engines, and if you want to do it you have to be willing to get your hands very dirty and put the time in. It took a total of 14 hours for me, and it was the first LY7 chain I've ever done and in fact it was the first DOHC chain i've ever done.


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post #16 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-07-2013, 05:23 PM
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Great job!

And congratulations on a job well done and the piece of mind that comes from it.

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post #17 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-07-2013, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PONY MAN View Post
Well said and thanks for your input. On a different note, I know Cloyes makes a timing chain kit (9-0753S) with most (if not all) of the things needed for the installation, so I wonder if their chains are any stronger / more durable than the General Motors pieces. Will see if I can find any additional information on their website. However, I have zero experience with any of their products.



Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like the kit lacks the valve cover gaskets and some seals. Last thing, looks like this is an American made product, so for some, may be more of an incentive to purchase if the need arises.
Cloyes is good stuff. Used in two of my low deck Mopar strokers.

things are not as they appear to be.........

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post #18 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-10-2013, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Here is the entire repair:

1. Remove airbox from filter to throttle body.

2. Remove six intake manifold bolts

3. Disconnect the throttle valve wire, all hoses attached to intake manifold, and remove the 10mm bolt on the drivers side that holds the EVAP purge solenoid to the intake. Then, carefully remove the intake.

4. Remove the two bolts for the lower plenum, but do not remove the plenum.

5. Remove all six coils, cut the tape holding the harness to the valve cover on the passenger side, and pry up in the plastic piece that is holding the harness to the cover on the driver’s side.

6. Disconnect cam sensors and VVT solonoids and remove the holders from the valve cover

7. Remove the valve covers.

8. Remove the water outlet

9. Remove serpentine belt and water pump pulley.

10. Take the power steering reservoir off of its bracket and position the power steering pulley in such a way that you can access the two 13mm bolts that hold the pump to the bracket, and then pry the pump towards the driver’s side with a bar to remove it from the bracket. Then, remove all bolts holding the power steering bracket to the block.

11. Now the fun part- Remove the three long bolts holding the A/C compressor to its bracket. You may need to access them through the wheel opening. Once they are removed, pull the compressor towards the front of the vehicle and remove the attaching bracket. There are bolts on both the side and front of the block that hold the bracket.

12. Remove the belt tensioner.

13. Remove the crank pulley. You will need a puller and you may have to get creative like I did with the puller above.

14. Remove all of the 13mm bolts that hold the front cover to the block, then remove the cover while being careful not to damage the VVT solenoids.

15. Put the cover aside.

16. Once you are able to access the timing chain(s), remove the passenger side cam chain by removing the tensioner. Then, remove the tensioner for the bottom intermediate chain. Remove that chain also.

*Be very careful when the cams turn under spring tension* You will get hurt if your fingers are not in the right place when they do.

17. To remove the driver's side cam chain you must remove the tensioner and the guide that covers the chain.

18. Clean everything off with brake clean.

19. Make sure that the crankshaft is in the stage one timing position with the crankshaft sprocket timing mark (1) aligned to the stage one timing mark on the oil pump cover (2).




20. Install the chain such that the two small marks on the chain line up with the circle marks on each cam. The bigger mark on the chain lines up in such a way that if you were to look straight through the hole in the idler sprocket, you would see the mark right through it.





21. Install the tensioner.

22. Install the guide.

23. Remove the pin from the tensioner.

24. The intermediate chain is very easy. There are three marks equal lengths apart. With the engine still in the stage one timing position, install the chain such that the circular mark on the crankshaft sprocket meets up with a mark on the chain, and such that the other marks line up with the arrows on the idler sprockets. If the new chain is too tight to install, remove guides as necessary. Replace them once the new chain is on. Then install the tensioner and remove the pin.





25. Now we must move the engine to the stage two timing position which is as displayed below:

26. Install this chain such that the two smaller marks meet up with the TRIANGLES on the cam sprockets. Please note we are NOT using the circles on this side. Install it on the idler so that the mark is in line with the hole in the larger sprocket. On this side it is hard to see, but do your best to make sure it is perfectly lined up with the hole. Install the tensioner and remove the pin.







27. Rotate the engine several times by hand to make sure it is not binding by interference of the valves and the pistons. If it feels good, then you are in business.

28. Clean the timing case cover and remove the VVT solenoids. These are the long solenoids that protrude into the block from the cover. Also, remove the water pump seal and the engine front seal. Replace them with new ones. You may also replace the VVT solenoid seals, but I did not and they did not leak. If they do, it is easy to do it afterwards.

29. I recommend using Permatex anaerobic sealant to put between the timing cover and the block. I also applied it liberally to the water pump seal. The last thing you want is water in your oil.

30. Install the cover. Because we didn't remove the alternator, you may have to give the cover a small tap with a hammer on the side of the alternator.

31. Install your VVT solenoids and reverse the entire disassembly. You may want to apply anaerobic sealant to the seals of the water outlet where they meet the block.

32. MOST IMPORTANT STEP: CHANGE THE OIL BEFORE STARTING THE ENGINE. As you take the timing cover off, all the coolant goes into the oil pan. You will need to drain it all out and fill it with new oil and replace the filter. You then will need to replace the coolant that was lost.

33. Start the engine. Hopefully it will sound happy. Then road test the car.
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1957 Oldsmobile 98 | 371 Rocket V8 | J2 3x2 Tri Power| Jetaway Dual Coupling Hydra-Matic | Sierra Gold | Magnaflow Dual Exhaust | Autronic Eye
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post #19 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-11-2013, 08:01 PM
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This is great stuff. I'm glad you documented the repair. In addition to my '08 Panther Black LY7 I also have an '07 Caddy CTS LY7. I was sent an extended warranty to 150K on the timing chain only. I am assuming the same issue applies. So, if I have to do this twice, I glad of the info you've provided. By the way, I am 3 times+ your age.....but, a lifetime motorhead.
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post #20 of 125 (permalink) Old 05-22-2013, 10:11 PM
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This helps alot! I had this done by the dealership at 66K now im at 103K and its happened again so thanks for the write up! And do you have a part number?

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