My DOD/AFM delete with LS3 cam - any questions? - Pontiac G8 Forum: G8 Forums - G8Board.com
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post #1 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
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My DOD/AFM delete with LS3 cam - any questions?

I'll be doing a "budget" DOD delete with a LS3 cam/springs this weekend. While a cam swap is not a novel thing, I figured I'd toss this thread up to give anyone an opportunity to ask questions or make a request for pictures or whatever as I'm tearing into the engine.

The best thread I've found for the install is this posted by BobtheMonkee: Camshaft and DoD Delete DIY Guide!
I'll update the thread [post 5] with my parts list as I have compiled a full and complete DOD delete list that one can't buy in package form -- I've done your leg work

This install is using entirely GM parts, so it's very easy to source things. I picked up the majority of things from Pace Performance; Amazon has better pricing for ACDelco numbers, though, so I utilized Amazon for those things. The cam/springs came out of a 5th gen Camaro with approximately 6000 miles on it - I paid $75 for all of it shipped (also included retainers and seals). The best place to find these used are the 5th gen forums (Camaro5, ModernCamaro, etc.).

There are many gaskets which are reusable, but I did not want to be left stranded with not having a gasket once I tore into things and found that I couldn't reuse something. It's easier to spend a couple bucks to return something than it is to be stuck waiting for it to arrive in the middle of an install. With 118k miles, I figured it'd be prudent to replace all of them anyway; however, some of the more expensive ones I might reuse if I find them to be OK. I will update the thread with the gaskets I ended up reusing just so those of you with higher miles can decide if you want to roll the dice or not to order them.

Wish me luck!

EDIT: Now that the job is complete, I wanted to update with what I spent on it -- only $600. I reused the timing chain and gears, valve cover and throttle body gaskets, and oil pump. Everything else was new (except for the LS3 parts which came out of super low mileage Camaro).

EDIT2: Car made 390hp/385tq -- gained 45hp and 10tq -- L76 AFM/DOD delete with LS3 cam gained 45hp/10tq
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Last edited by demonspeed; 08-31-2016 at 08:23 AM. Reason: added my cost after all was said and done
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post #2 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 10:39 AM
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Please send pics and all information u can I would love to do engine work on my GT some time soon like to compare and learn as much as possible thanks lots of help

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post #3 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 09:36 PM
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Thanks for the heads up in another thread about the "cheap" valley cover. Saved me $100 gathering parts for my cam swap this week.
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post #4 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-12-2016, 10:00 PM
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post #5 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-13-2016, 07:45 AM Thread Starter
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This is a complete parts list that will give you everything you need if wanting to use all GM parts. I am OCD and only use GM/ACDelco stuff when it comes to gaskets, bolts, and electrical components.
  • LS7 lifters - 12499225 (1) (this part number is for a set of 16)
  • Lifter tray - 12595365 (4)
  • Crank bolt - 12557840 (1)
  • Cam bolt - 11561283 (1)
  • Head bolts - 17800568 (2)
  • Head gasket - 12610046 (2)
  • LS2 timing chain tensioner - 12588670 (1)
  • Oil pump pickup tube O-ring - 12584922 (1)
  • Oil pan gasket - 12612350 (1)
  • Dipstick tube O-ring – 24503041 (1)
  • Front crank seal - 12585673 (1)
  • Front cover gasket - 12633904 (1)
  • Water pump gasket - 12630223 (2)
  • Valve cover gasket - 12637683 (2)
  • Intake manifold gaskets - 19256623 (1)
  • Throttle body gasket – 12576549 (1)
  • Exhaust manifold gasket - 12617944 (2)
  • Dampener seal – 12674588 (1) <-- not needed if running aftermarket dampener/underdrive pulley
  • Camshaft retainer plate - 12589016 (1) <-- more on this at the end of this post
  • Relief valve plug - 96041864 (1) <-- more on this at the end of this post

The valley cover/PCV system has two options...
Option 1: Eliminate the L76 PCV in favor of the LS3 internal PCV with the following:
  • LS3 valley cover - 12599296 (1) <-- one can also use GMPP cover 12570471
  • LS3 "dirty" PCV hose - 12599298 (1) <-- one can also use LS6 PCV hose 12594779 which is simply a formed rubber hose
  • PCV plug - 12579145 (1) <-- this is discontinued, but NOS is available as of this posting
Option 2: Retain the L76 PCV with the following:
  • "Updated" passenger valve cover - 12570427 (1) <-- if 2009 w/RPO BSI use 12642655
  • "Plain" valley cover - 12598832 (1) <-- optional; only needed if wanting to remove the AFM cover

Here is the GM bulletin explaining the "updated" valve cover: http://gm.oemdtc.com/683/engine-oil-...et-gmc-pontiac

Because this is a budget AFM delete, I elected to go with a LS3 cam and springs (with 6000 miles out of a Camaro as mentioned previously). I only replaced the retainers, keepers, and seals because they came with the cam and springs. Otherwise, I'd not have replaced them unless they were damaged.
  • LS3 cam - 12623063 (1)
  • LS3 springs - 12499224 (1)
  • Valve retainer 10166344 (16)
  • Valve keeper 10166345 (32)
  • Exhaust valve seals 12482062 (1)
  • Intake valve seals 12482063 (1)

In addition, you might want to replace the timing set and oil pump if using a more aggressive cam than OE or have high miles (I reused mine with 118k miles):
  • Timing chain - 12646386 (1)
  • Timing gears - 12591689 (1)
  • Oil pump - 12612289 (1)

Camshaft retainer plate: this part has a molded gasket. It may be prudent to replace this, but it's rarely (if ever) mentioned in the DOD delete threads. Picture attached (see post 17 for more).

Relief valve plug: this part is a transmission drain plug for a 1.8 Ecotec. It's the same pitch, is low profile, and has a molded gasket. It's perfect. Pictures attached. I'll make a specific post about this later [post 17]. If one wants to retain the pressure relief valve, GM recommends a relief valve deflector 12639759.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1138.jpg (137.9 KB, 122 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1139.jpg (141.3 KB, 115 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1140.jpg (133.8 KB, 112 views)
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Last edited by demonspeed; 04-18-2017 at 03:02 PM. Reason: updated parts list
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post #6 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-13-2016, 10:28 AM
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post #7 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-13-2016, 09:53 PM
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Very Nice!! Starting my cam install tomorrow. Its my first time tearing into a LS engine. Going with a Little Lunati. Somethings are different but the majority of the list is the same. Good luck tomorrow!!
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post #8 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-13-2016, 10:18 PM
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Very nice been looking for cam and lifters using oem as well
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post #9 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-14-2016, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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End of night one and already ran into a snag. The PowerBond pulley does not have an area inside of the hub to install a three-jaw puller like the OE pulley. There are three threaded holes, but I can not figure out - nor find anything online - which specifies what size they are. I am either going to remove it with a three-jaw puller mounted to outside hooked on to the lip or bust out the tap & die set and make it for a set of bolts I have. Neither option excites me, but when you're stranded in the garage because your wife took the kids (thus, the other vehicle) to her parents for the weekend...
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post #10 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-14-2016, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonspeed View Post
End of night one and already ran into a snag. The PowerBond pulley does not have an area inside of the hub to install a three-jaw puller like the OE pulley. There are three threaded holes, but I can not figure out - nor find anything online - which specifies what size they are. I am either going to remove it with a three-jaw puller mounted to outside hooked on to the lip or bust out the tap & die set and make it for a set of bolts I have. Neither option excites me, but when you're stranded in the garage because your wife took the kids (thus, the other vehicle) to her parents for the weekend...
Call Enterprise. They will pick you up.


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post #11 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-14-2016, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by demonspeed View Post
End of night one and already ran into a snag. The PowerBond pulley does not have an area inside of the hub to install a three-jaw puller like the OE pulley. There are three threaded holes, but I can not figure out - nor find anything online - which specifies what size they are. I am either going to remove it with a three-jaw puller mounted to outside hooked on to the lip or bust out the tap & die set and make it for a set of bolts I have. Neither option excites me, but when you're stranded in the garage because your wife took the kids (thus, the other vehicle) to her parents for the weekend...
Any spare bolts you can screw into the holes for the crank pulley just to figure out thread pitch? If I were to guess, or hope that they are metric but if you figure it out you would need a different type puller, which I don't know you have. If all you have is a three jaw puller then I would probably try using the lip to pull on just b/c I'm lazy.

I hope this is the only snag for you, I'm really curious how cheap can you do an OEM parts LS3 cam swap. And how much power will it get you, I assume full bolt-ons right around 400 whp. "Sleeper setup."

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post #12 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-14-2016, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TooManyHobbies View Post
Call Enterprise. They will pick you up.
Yeah... about that:
  • I'm too rural for the closest Enterprise to pick me up (I travel often for work). It is usually only the airport locations that offer the service, though.
  • They had a special for the weekend (Fri-MondayAM) for $40. I was going to do it, but my wife talked me out of it...

/facepalm

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominikanbx View Post
Any spare bolts you can screw into the holes for the crank pulley just to figure out thread pitch? If I were to guess, or hope that they are metric but if you figure it out you would need a different type puller, which I don't know you have. If all you have is a three jaw puller then I would probably try using the lip to pull on just b/c I'm lazy.

I hope this is the only snag for you, I'm really curious how cheap can you do an OEM parts LS3 cam swap. And how much power will it get you, I assume full bolt-ons right around 400 whp. "Sleeper setup."
I've been through all of them, but no luck. I have a metric tap & die set and none of my taps match the thread. I was almost certain it was 3/8 fine thread as I was able to get a 3/8-16 to start in the holes, but nope -- too big.

I'm just going to say screw it and use the large three-jaw puller I rented from Advance to do it on the lip. Worst case scenario is I really screw the pulley up and need to buy a new one. Granted, that negates the "budget" part of this install, but it's not like it would be a catastrophic issue.

As for your interest in final results -- I am just as interested! I made 345hp/376tq with Vararam, Vmax ported TB, the infamous pulley, Manzo headers, and a super conservative tune. I am still running factory midpipe and axlebacks, so there is certainly power left on the able, but I want to keep this car unassuming. I'll be going back to the tuner/dyno in the next few weeks, so I'll be sure to post the results!

Lunch is over - back to work!

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post #13 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-14-2016, 02:29 PM
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Hey thanks for the write up and parts list! If my car ever fails this will be a good setup to look into.
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post #14 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-14-2016, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Pulley came off via the above mentioned method using the lip. No issues there.

It's been a pretty slow process the past four hours as I've only managed to get the front cover and oil pan off. My goal for tonight is have everything off/out and at the very least clean and ready to be reinstalled. I'll try for more, but I've learned to under promise and over deliver when it comes to car repairs, lol.

Anyway, while I expected it, it's still unsettling when finding anything (in the case, the tensioner) in the oil pan (see pic attached)
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post #15 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-14-2016, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonspeed View Post
Pulley came off via the above mentioned method using the lip. No issues there.

It's been a pretty slow process the past four hours as I've only managed to get the front cover and oil pan off. My goal for tonight is have everything off/out and at the very least clean and ready to be reinstalled. I'll try for more, but I've learned to under promise and over deliver when it comes to car repairs, lol.

Anyway, while I expected it, it's still unsettling when finding anything (in the case, the tensioner) in the oil pan (see pic attached)
How many miles you have on the engine? Crappy thing to see, I'm assuming everything ran fine before you started the cam swap. You said "expected", where you hearing any noises?

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post #16 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-14-2016, 04:56 PM
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This is a complete parts list that will give you everything you need if wanting to use all GM parts. I am OCD and only use GM/ACDelco stuff when it comes to gaskets and electrical components.
  • Valley cover - 12598832 (1) <-- use this if retaining L76 PCV system
If you are eliminating the L76 PCV system in favor of the LS3 internal PCV, you'll want to get the following:
  • LS3 valley cover - 12599296 (1) <-- one can also use 12570471
Add my experience - on the valley covers - if using 12598832 with stock PCV, consider the new (revised) drivers side valve cover. It has revised internal baffle to reduce the oil vapor.


12599296 or 12570471 the difference is the hose nipple. 296 will not clear the LSA blower.
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post #17 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-15-2016, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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I can't do anymore tonight -- but I have just enough left to make this post. Attached is where I'm ending it for the night.

This is what the relief valve plug looks like on the pan; it's a very clean and flush install:




Here is a good picture to represent the cam retainer plate gasket -- old one on the left and new one on the right:



Quote:
Originally Posted by dominikanbx View Post
How many miles you have on the engine? Crappy thing to see, I'm assuming everything ran fine before you started the cam swap. You said "expected", where you hearing any noises?
It's a normal thing for the L76 - the tensioner simply falls apart. I have 118k on mine, but if one reads through threads one will find that it's common no matter the mileage.
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post #18 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-15-2016, 12:58 AM
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Once agen you're awesome thanks for the details

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post #19 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-15-2016, 07:59 AM
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Sub'd! Wish I could be doing this as well, but it will be good for me to at least see the process before I crack into mine.

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post #20 of 108 (permalink) Old 05-15-2016, 11:20 PM
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That plug for the pressure relief valve is really nice. Just ordered one along with the cam retainer plate. ty for the info!

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