Traction control and rear brakes - Pontiac G8 Forum: G8 Forums - G8Board.com
 
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-14-2013, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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Traction control and rear brakes

Is shutting off the traction control really the only way to save the rear brakes on these things? I have an 09 GT and had to replace the rear brakes at 37,000 miles. I read somewhere that the traction control is what eats the rear brakes, so I turned it off and my new pads and rotors are doing great.

Is there another solution, or is this the only game to save brakes (before someone says stop driving so aggressive, we get a lot of snow)?
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-14-2013, 06:37 PM
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I've never heard of the TC causing the rears to prematurely wear. I haven't had any issues on my stock set up. Interesting.

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-14-2013, 06:45 PM
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I have 58k and are still on factory origonal brakes. Maybe your caliper sliders are dirty or corrupted and not allowing the pads to move freely.

I don't think this is due to traction control, as I daily drive mine, and in the 4 winters so far, lots of ESC activations means my rear brakes would theoretically be bad too. Such is not the case.

I'd say you're due for a brake inspection.


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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-14-2013, 06:47 PM
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Under aggressive acceleration I believe power is reduced through torque reduction. However in snowy conditions I'd imagine that might not be enough so perhaps it is true that the brakes are applied, much like they would be selectively to each wheel in the event the car starts to lose control laterally.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-14-2013, 06:53 PM
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I have never heard of the TC causing more wear than not having it... not sure if that even makes sense... hmmm.... mayeb there is something there but just havent heard it....

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2013, 01:24 AM
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TC does NOT hit the rear brakes for you...
That would be the opposite of helping....

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2013, 11:51 AM
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Mustangs were famous for this a few years ago. People would take them to track days and burn through rear pads in half a session, because the ECM would apply the rear brakes (individually, as necessary) to reduce wheel spin. So it definitely happens, but it depends on the car and how it controls slip.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2013, 01:04 PM
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Traction control does apply the rear brake to control spinning wheels. Stability control can apply brake to any wheel to keep the vehicle from sliding.

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2013, 01:13 PM
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Don't feel bad my stock rear brakes were toast in 1 year! Upgraded to DBA rotors and Hawk pads from MD speed, very worthy upgrade!
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2013, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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Since I replaced my brakes and had the rotors machined I'm faithful at turning off the ECM off before I drive it anywhere. My rear pads are still at 80% in the same amount of time that I burnt through my first set.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2013, 02:41 PM
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I have almost 84k miles in my car, with lots of 1/4 and 1/8 mile passes, 2k miles ago i had my rear rotors resurfaced, with new pads put on. I don't know what traction control is, unless it is raining, and i've only experienced TC and VSC a couple of times in the snow, back when i was i was living in the East Coast. The first thing i do when i turn the engine on, is to disabled traction control unless like i said, it's raining outside.
The other instance when i had TC enabled on purpose was during one of our mountain driving meets, and the road was semi wet, with dirt coming down from the side of the mountains because of previous rain. I did skid a little in one of the turns without it, and didn't want to take the chances under such conditions, once we turned into the dry portion, TC was back to its natural state in my case, off, and the main aid as always in the dry, is my right foot traction control

I've never heard of traction control causing premature wear on the breaks, rears or front, (for rear or front wheel drive where applicable) and i also doesn't know anybody using it for track days, unless the car is pushing massive amounts of power. Right foot traction control is the natural approach, unless the situation requires it, and/or usually the driver that is not comfortable running without TC.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2013, 03:17 PM
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I haven't heard of this issue due to traction control either. However, in talking to a few others with these cars, their factory brakes didn't hold up very long. Mine were shot after about 40,000 miles. I upgraded to DBA rotors and Hawk pads and have had no problems. FWIW

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-15-2013, 11:46 PM
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Traction control FOR SURE uses the EBTCM (Electronic Brake Traction Control Module) to pulse each wheel individually for limited wheel slippage as needed. I don't know how aggressive our TC is but I occas. feel it applying the brakes individually. It will burn up pads but only if your rear wheels are spinning a lot and/or you drive in a lot of icy/snowy stuff. I'm from Chicago area and I'm not burning through pads in the snow...

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-16-2013, 12:27 AM
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Service Information






2008 Pontiac G8 | G8 Service Manual | Brakes | Antilock Brake System | Description and Operation | Document ID: 2043131
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ABS Description and Operation


This vehicle is equipped with a Bosch ABS/EBD/TCS/VSES brake system. The electronic brake control module (EBCM) and the brake pressure modulator valve (BPMV) is serviced separately. The BPMV uses a 4 circuit configuration to control hydraulic pressure to each wheel independently.

The following vehicle performance enhancement systems are provided.






Antilock Brake System (ABS)







Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD)







Traction Control System (TCS)







Vehicle Stability Enhancement System (VSES)


The following components are involved in the operation of the above systems.






ABS pump motor—The ABS pump motor is part of the brake pressure modulator valve. The ABS pump motor is active during ABS, VSES and base brake power assist functions.








-

System relays—There are two system relays internal to the EBCM. The solenoid relay is energized when the ignition is ON. The ABS pump motor relay supplies a ground path to the ABS pump motor when the EBCM commands the ABS pump motor on. The system relays are non serviceable.








-

Solenoids—The solenoids are commanded ON and OFF by the EBCM to operate the appropriate valves in the brake pressure modulator valve (BPMV).







Brake booster vacuum sensor—The Brake Booster Vacuum Sensor is a input to ECM.







The BPMV contains the ABS pump motor and pump.







Lateral accelerometer—The EBCM uses the lateral accelerometer to determine the sideways acceleration of the vehicle. The lateral accelerometer is packaged with the yaw rate sensor as a single component.







Master cylinder pressure sensor—The master cylinder pressure sensor is located within the BPMV. The master cylinder pressure sensor uses a 5-volt reference and generates an output signal proportionate to the hydraulic fluid pressure which is present in the front brake circuit at the master cylinder.




Steering wheel position sensor--The steering wheel position sensor is an input to the EBCM.







Traction control switch—VSES and the engine torque reduction function of TCS are manually disabled or enabled by pressing the traction control switch.







Wheel speed sensors (WSS)—EBCM sends a 12-volt reference voltage signal to each wheel speed sensor. As the wheel spins, the wheel speed sensor produces a square wave DC signal voltage. The wheel speed sensor increases the signal frequency as the wheel speed increases, but does not increase the signal amplitude.







Yaw rate sensor—The EBCM uses the yaw rate sensor to determine the rate of rotation along the vehicle's vertical axis. The yaw rate sensor is packaged with the lateral accelerometer as a single component.

Vehicle Stability Enhancement System (VSES)


Vehicle stability enhancement system (VSES) provides added stability during aggressive maneuvers. Yaw rate is the rate of rotation about the vehicle's vertical axis. The VSES is activated when the electronic brake control module (EBCM) determines that the desired yaw rate does not match the actual yaw rate as measured by the yaw rate sensor.

The desired yaw rate is calculated by the EBCM using, primarily, the following inputs.






The position of the steering wheel







The speed of the vehicle







The lateral, or sideways acceleration of the vehicle


The difference between the desired yaw rate and the actual yaw rate is the yaw rate error, which is a measurement of oversteer or understeer. When a yaw rate error is detected, the EBCM attempts to correct the vehicle's yaw motion by applying brake pressure to one or more of the wheels. The amount of brake pressure which is applied varies, depending on the correction required. The engine torque may be reduced also, if it is necessary to slow the vehicle while maintaining stability.

VSES activations generally occur in turns during aggressive driving. When braking during VSES activation, the pedal may pulsate. The brake pedal pulsates at a higher frequency during VSES activation than during ABS activation.

2008 MGM G8 GT
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-16-2013, 04:52 AM
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my rear brakes are due to be changed and im at 95 000km. i changed the front at 70 000km. im not sure if the traction control is hard on rear brakes but i know for sure that during winters, its on and working more than its off.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-16-2013, 06:28 AM
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70,000miles and my rear pads look fine.
You would have to drive like crazy sauce on an ice skating rink for a while to wear down the rears.

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-17-2013, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMV View Post
Traction control FOR SURE uses the EBTCM (Electronic Brake Traction Control Module) to pulse each wheel individually for limited wheel slippage as needed. I don't know how aggressive our TC is but I occas. feel it applying the brakes individually. It will burn up pads but only if your rear wheels are spinning a lot and/or you drive in a lot of icy/snowy stuff. I'm from Chicago area and I'm not burning through pads in the snow...
Thanks for proving that I'm not crazy. I guess applying the brakes for TC is better than shutting off gas (Ford)
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-17-2013, 08:16 PM
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I've never owned a Ford, but don't be so quick to bash them. My 2000 Grand Prix shuts off fuel to control traction. That can be turned off with a tune though and it also uses other methods to control traction like pulling timing.

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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-17-2013, 10:05 PM
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Stability control activates brakes separately, I believe traction control reduces power among a couple other things to keep traction. They both work in concert when you lose traction for any reason.

When you turn off traction control, you turn off stability control as well.

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