Ok Folks. Here are the head & cam results you have all been waiting for!

These numbers are from our Mustang MD-250 chassis dyno.

The car is a 2008 G8 GT with a Roto-Fab Intake system, Kooks 1 3/4" long tube headers, Off-road X-pipe, Yank 3200 converter & stock mufflers.

We also removed the MAF screen since we were seeing a 8 Kpa depression in the intake manifold. This resulted in 8 more HP & 12 more lb/ft of Torque after proper tuning.

An Eddy current dyno (like our Mustang) is not fooled by the torque multiplication the converter produces (like an inertia dyno). This means the numbers are a little lower than a car with no converter or a car tested on an inertia dyno.

Here is the dyno sheet:

The engine size is typed in wrong, the previous car on the dyno was a LS3 Corvette.

http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg470/vector_motorsports/CamFinal.jpg

Here is the raw data -

Row one is RPM, Row two is stock HP, Row three is modified HP & Row four is the gain.

3200.00 167.07 190.48 23.41
3300.00 173.24 202.68 29.44
3400.00 180.08 217.13 37.05
3500.00 189.28 229.69 40.41
3600.00 195.23 238.59 43.36
3700.00 203.85 252.30 48.45
3800.00 212.37 267.70 55.33
3900.00 218.91 278.13 59.22
4000.00 225.84 286.57 60.73
4100.00 231.97 296.55 64.58
4200.00 238.14 307.84 69.70
4300.00 244.51 321.00 76.49
4400.00 251.70 335.27 83.57
4500.00 258.91 346.10 87.19
4600.00 265.15 354.79 89.64
4700.00 269.24 362.12 92.88
4800.00 272.70 372.12 99.42
4900.00 276.94 380.94 104.00
5000.00 280.82 391.49 110.67
5100.00 284.69 397.88 113.19
5200.00 286.51 411.05 124.54
5300.00 289.91 417.93 128.02
5400.00 291.07 423.55 132.48
5500.00 291.07 426.74 135.67
5600.00 292.54 431.15 138.61
5700.00 292.67 437.06 144.39
5800.00 293.45 442.11 148.66
5900.00 292.47 445.68 153.21
6000.00 290.24 448.91 158.67
6100.00 449.19
6200.00 451.53
6300.00 451.42
6400.00 450.98
6600.00 449.28
6700.00 445.02

Row one is RPM, Row two is stock Torque, Row three is modified Torque & Row four is the gain.

3200.00 272.51 309.39 36.88
3300.00 274.95 321.98 47.03
3400.00 275.85 335.17 59.32
3500.00 278.25 345.27 67.02
3600.00 283.43 346.49 63.06
3700.00 284.76 357.62 72.86
3800.00 289.63 370.66 81.03
3900.00 294.13 373.76 79.63
4000.00 295.33 377.73 82.40
4100.00 296.21 379.61 83.40
4200.00 297.32 385.31 87.99
4300.00 297.29 393.33 96.04
4400.00 298.24 399.92 101.68
4500.00 300.32 403.42 103.10
4600.00 302.47 405.57 103.10
4700.00 302.66 404.74 102.08
4800.00 301.15 407.18 106.03
4900.00 298.53 408.00 109.47
5000.00 296.62 411.07 114.45
5100.00 294.94 409.40 114.46
5200.00 293.01 415.91 122.90
5300.00 289.63 414.08 124.45
5400.00 287.05 412.00 124.95
5500.00 283.30 407.47 124.17
5600.00 277.83 404.17 126.34
5700.00 274.46 402.46 128.00
5800.00 269.87 400.80 130.93
5900.00 265.61 396.86 131.25
6000.00 260.25 392.62 132.37
6100.00 255.69 386.52 130.83
6200.00 383.04
6300.00 376.10
6400.00 369.78
6600.00 357.47
6700.00 349.46

the engine is shown to be a 6.2l... what are the specs on the cam?

Second on the cam specs please?

the engine is shown to be a 6.2l... what are the specs on the cam?

No it is a 6.0L.

The cam is a 226/234 on a 112 lsa.

very nice numbers

So, whats this package approx. gonna go for with and without the core exchange on the heads?

Yes, totally awesome results! This is on my short list of Mods to get done.... :)


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Niiiiiiice.

So, whats this package approx. gonna go for with and without the core exchange on the heads?

Check the GXP Killer thread in our section for pricing. Add $650 if you want new heads.

I'm counting the days to get this...... very nice!

I'm counting the days to get this...... very nice!


You & me both! :)


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Bump for the cam! :)


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OMG Really... REALLY thinking about making the trip down to the shop this spring/summer
I wanted the LTH Headers + Pipes but now might consider this with the rest might as well if I am to make the trip down there ... oh welll i'll see how things are going when spring is around

OMG Really... REALLY thinking about making the trip down to the shop this spring/summer
I wanted the LTH Headers + Pipes but now might consider this with the rest might as well if I am to make the trip down there ... oh welll i'll see how things are going when spring is around


Whatever mods you do, you'll be very happy with the end result. Vector Motorsports does an awesome job!

The Kooks Long Tube Headers are sweet! If you don't want an extreme sound, keep the stock axle back system.

Then you can either go with Off Road Mid Pipes or High Flow Cats.

I can't wait to do the cam though, then my car will be almost perfect.



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2008 Pontiac G8 GT - Panther Black Metallic

Current Set Up: VMS ECM/TCM Tune, Roto-Fab CAI, HSRK, Yank 3200 Torque Converter, Trans. Cooler, Kooks 1 3/4" LT Headers, high flow cats, stock mufflers.

355 RWHP & 352 RWTQ

Best Time: 13.17 @ 106.88mph w/ 1.943 60' time

Those are some killer numbers, I know trade secrets and all, but what's the ball park lift on that cam? My LS1 TA put down similar numbers but had around .600 lift and similar duration on the same LSA. The car loped something crazy, I figure this one does too?

Shinanagins!You will not see an 8HP gain from popping out the MAF Sensor Screen and tuning......This was tried and control tested with my G8 and only yielded a 1HP gain.

Something's off with your graph. The baseline run's HP and TQ curves cross at 5250, but your second run's does not.

Shinanagins!You will not see an 8HP gain from popping out the MAF Sensor Screen and tuning......This was tried and control tested with my G8 and only yielded a 1HP gain.

Says YOUR tuner, on YOUR car, with a DIFFERENT Cai, on YOUR tuners dyno. Not all tuners are the same, nor are their dynos and conditions.

By the way, was this the same dyno that showed completely different results on the OTR Cai on different days?

Says YOUR tuner, on YOUR car, with a DIFFERENT Cai, on YOUR tuners dyno. Not all tuners are the same, nor are their dynos and conditions.

By the way, was this the same dyno that showed completely different results on the OTR Cai on different days?

Darkside is absolutely right in the points he brings up. To make the statement that what happened with my car at Vector this week "can't" happen is to make a lot of assumptions that cannot be made. Just exactly why can't this happen with these partricular head/cam package on this particular car? Because it didn't happen on another car with different cam/head combination? Come on!!! This is the same car that has had the screen removed since it was new and has never had any issues of any kind that have been talked about in other threads on this forum. If Kirk said it happened ( and he did ) then I am sure it did and I am willing to let Kirk put a screened MAF back on the car and re-dyno it with Manosteel or any other witnesses present. Enough said?

Those are some killer numbers, I know trade secrets and all, but what's the ball park lift on that cam? My LS1 TA put down similar numbers but had around .600 lift and similar duration on the same LSA. The car loped something crazy, I figure this one does too?

The car has a bit of lope at idle but not what anyone would call excessive. Anyone who listens to it would know it's not exactly stock, but it is certainly not radical in idle quality.

Darkside is absolutely right in the points he brings up. To make the statement that what happened with my car at Vector this week "can't" happen is to make a lot of assumptions that cannot be made. Just exactly why can't this happen with these partricular head/cam package on this particular car? Because it didn't happen on another car with different cam/head combination? Come on!!! This is the same car that has had the screen removed since it was new and has never had any issues of any kind that have been talked about in other threads on this forum. If Kirk said it happened ( and he did ) then I am sure it did and I am willing to let Kirk put a screened MAF back on the car and re-dyno it with Manosteel or any other witnesses present. Enough said?

You never had any shifting problems without the screen (before the re-tune)?

You never had any shifting problems without the screen (before the re-tune)?

I took the screen out of the MAF about 4 days after I took delivery of the car in April '08. Always had pretty good results with doing that in my other cars. I had no problems whatsoever with the car after taking out the screen. Trans. always worked perfectly (even better after a TCM tune which removed all TQ MGMNT.) I've read about others having a few different issues with their cars after removing the MAF screen, but I've never had any problems of any kind. Kirk installed a stock MAF to see if indeed there was any changes with the screen in place and found it cost power up high. I'm using the Roto-Fab and have a different cam and head set-up than Manosteel. This might explain why this works for me and not for him. Can't say for absolutely sure, though.

Something's off with your graph. The baseline run's HP and TQ curves cross at 5250, but your second run's does not.

If you look at the raw data you will see the baseline run ended at 6100. The modified run ended at 6700. The dyno graph that compares the two automaticly scales them together. That is why they do not match.

Shinanagins!You will not see an 8HP gain from popping out the MAF Sensor Screen and tuning......This was tried and control tested with my G8 and only yielded a 1HP gain.


OK.

What would I possibly have to gain by telling people this fact?

I am the one always telling people NOT to remove the screen.

I was reading a 8 -10 kpa depression in the manifold before removing the screen and only 4-6kpa after. That is a HUGE difference when it comes to the VE of your engine. What were your inlet depression numbers pre and post screen? You obviously have them, since this was "control tested".

And you also have fully ported heads, right?

If you look at the raw data you will see the baseline run ended at 6100. The modified run ended at 6700. The dyno graph that compares the two automaticly scales them together. That is why they do not match.

Then the data on the graph are not accurate.

Then the data on the graph are not accurate.


The graph is just for general comparason. The raw values are exact. A graph is nothing without numbers. I show you gains at every test RPM. Not just peak to peak.

The graph is just for general comparason. The raw values are exact. A graph is nothing without numbers. I show you gains at every test RPM. Not just peak to peak.

Understood; thanks for that. Having done work in statistics, I am sensitive to graphs that depict values that are inaccurate, as yours does.

That being said, I am sure there is a setting that can allow accurate depiction of values on the graph.

Understood; thanks for that. Having done work in statistics, I am sensitive to graphs that depict values that are inaccurate, as yours does.

That being said, I am sure there is a setting that can allow accurate depiction of values on the graph.


The Mustang Dynamometer software leaves much to be desired. It is great at keeping control of the absorber but when it comes to human interaction it's not so good.

I took the screen out of the MAF about 4 days after I took delivery of the car in April '08. Always had pretty good results with doing that in my other cars. I had no problems whatsoever with the car after taking out the screen. Trans. always worked perfectly (even better after a TCM tune which removed all TQ MGMNT.) I've read about others having a few different issues with their cars after removing the MAF screen, but I've never had any problems of any kind. Kirk installed a stock MAF to see if indeed there was any changes with the screen in place and found it cost power up high. I'm using the Roto-Fab and have a different cam and head set-up than Manosteel. This might explain why this works for me and not for him. Can't say for absolutely sure, though.

Even with the zero TM TCM tune I had lazy shifting. It would run right up against the rev limiter.

I put a new stock (screen intact) MAF in the car and it shifts perfectly.

Even with the zero TM TCM tune I had lazy shifting. It would run right up against the rev limiter.

I put a new stock (screen intact) MAF in the car and it shifts perfectly.

Can't say for sure why I've never had that problem. Mine has always shifted consistently and correctly without the MAF screen. Only thing I've noted is that with the Yank 3200 installed the shift firmness is a little less noticeable but this is to be expected. Still hits hard enough to break traction on the 1-2 shift. No problems with hitting the rev limiter. Always shifted right at 6200. Has been re-calibrated to shift at 6700 now. I haven't driven the car yet, as it is still at Vector having a couple of things installed, but will probably pick it up later this week if the weather is O.K.

Even with the zero TM TCM tune I had lazy shifting. It would run right up against the rev limiter.

I put a new stock (screen intact) MAF in the car and it shifts perfectly.

There is no doubt that it is a crap shoot, leaning on things going more bad than good.

I do know that the MAF sensor table needs to be recalibrated to get actual safe results. On the head & cam car just removing the screen resulted in a 3 HP loss. After recalibrating the MAF tables we saw the 8 HP gain. It is quite a time consuming process since you must change the values every 10% and interpolate everything in between.

There is no doubt that it is a crap shoot, leaning on things going more bad than good.

I do know that the MAF sensor table needs to be recalibrated to get actual safe results. On the head & cam car just removing the screen resulted in a 3 HP loss. After recalibrating the MAF tables we saw the 8 HP gain. It is quite a time consuming process since you must change the values every 10% and interpolate everything in between.

When my house sells, I just might have to take a few day vacation to Mi and bring my screenless MAF with me.

Cam and head work and a dyno tune sound like a plan.

When my house sells, I just might have to take a few day vacation to Mi and bring my screenless MAF with me.

Cam and head work and a dyno tune sound like a plan.


I'd like to meet up with you when you come out here to Michigan! You'll have to let me know when your planning on coming out.


:)



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I love the idea behind this, but I don't want a car that is too loud (read: obnoxious). I presume that is an issue with 450+ rwhp :p

I love the idea behind this, but I don't want a car that is too loud (read: obnoxious). I presume that is an issue with 450+ rwhp :p

Its not so much an issue with having 450rwhp+, its an issue with having headers, no cats, big cams, no mufflers, etc....You can make power without getting obnoxious.