So I just got the residuals/programs for the G8... anyone care to guess what a 24mo/12000 mile lease is on a BARE BONES (IE no extra options) G8 GT? Wait for it... wait for it..........






















$567 a month!!


Thats for a GM Employee price LOL WTF is pontiac thinking? That payment is MORE Than my $50,000 CTS! Someone needs to lay off the crack....

Residual and Money Factor?

I didnt ask the money factor, I can look it up later residual is a pathetic 60% LOL

I got $485/month on a 60% residual for 24mo at 2.11% (which is what we just got on our Mazda CX-9). on 30,000 with 2,000 off for the GM discount (28K cap. adjusted).

I bet GMAC's rates are stupid


BAhhhh, CTS residual is 71% for 24 months at 12K per year.

Yeah thats my guess as well, they seriously will NEVER learn.... oh well uber cheap 08's when the 09's come in and probably when the 2010's come in LOL

I see so many similarties with the GTO launch its scary...flying blind the first time I can excuse...but the second 4 years later is hard to believe.
Especially if this car is to compete with BMW, Infiniti, etc...because BMW just lowered their lease program significantly. :popcorn2:

I hate to be a pain in the a**, but how is everyone getting the GM employee discount? I am not interested in a lease but I can't find any dealers who are willing to even talk about the GM employee discount.

Also, I never went through the whole 04 GTO process. How long was it before things calmed down? I know they couldn't give them away last year.

Why lease? Then you can't mod?

hahaa,

but seroiusly. wtf is with that payement? I thought their target was late 20's starting a family men who like cars? That payment is more like retired and have money to blow...

Why lease? Then you can't mod?

hahaa,

but seroiusly. wtf is with that payement? I thought their target was late 20's starting a family men who like cars? That payment is more like retired and have money to blow...

**** I mod lease cars all day, my lease 04 GTO had a procharger/fuel system/driveline/wheels/tires ect ect.. Stock when it was returned hehe

I get just about every domestic vehicle discount, either through work or family.

Ford, Mazda, Crysler, GM.....

You don't really have to have it anymore though, if one dealer won't give you invoice pricing call another, only on SUPER hot vehicles will you not get close to that discount. Someone is ALWAYS willing to deal.

I am not surprised, I really don't know how they can even know what the residual on the G-8 would be, it's a new model. When the 04 GTO came out I was the first to buy one in my area, but the salesmanager I know personally told me that until they could get a good idea on what GM would allow as a residual on the GTO, it was just a guess on their part. I would guess it will be the same for the G8. The salesmanager also told me that they are expecting 2 of the first 800, or 880, I can't remember, but they are going to have a special raffle to sell them off. No one will be able to come in and buy one of the first ones. So you have to buy raffle tickets, and hope you win. That way the dealer makes a good profit of the first delivery. Unfair, maybe??,but I assume most will either price the first ones up, or do what the dealer that I deal with is doing. Either way, I am going to wait until the hype is over, I learned on the 04 GTO !!!!!!!

Why lease? Then you can't mod?

hahaa,

but seroiusly. wtf is with that payement? I thought their target was late 20's starting a family men who like cars? That payment is more like retired and have money to blow...

Target Demographics for this vehicle are:

2008 G8 Target Demographics
Average age
35-45

College graduates
50%

Household income
$70,000 plus

My guess would of been 25-35. College Grads: 25%, House Income: 50-75K

Just my best guess

**** I mod lease cars all day, my lease 04 GTO had a procharger/fuel system/driveline/wheels/tires ect ect.. Stock when it was returned hehe

LOL......

Why lease? Then you can't mod?

hahaa,

but seroiusly. wtf is with that payement? I thought their target was late 20's starting a family men who like cars? That payment is more like retired and have money to blow...

Nitrous.... lots of nitrous. Get rid of it in a two years and dont have to deal with what happens to it down the road. :angel:

Target Demographics for this vehicle are:

2008 G8 Target Demographics
Average age
35-45

College graduates
50%

Household income
$70,000 plus

Where do you find the demographics for a car?

Cmon now - I fit right in the demo range you speak of 35yrs old - combined income of 100k or so...

over $500/month for a G8 lease?

I leased my 2005 g6 gt for $291/month 3yrs 45,000 miles.

Am I missing something here?

You can probably finance the car for less than $567 if you have decent credit and can make a down payment. Leasing is bad anyway. It's just a way for "the man" to keep you in perpetual car payments. :(

Of course, I like to buy a car and drive it into the ground, especially if I really like it. I haven't gotten rid of a car with less than 90k miles yet. I've had my current one for almost 7 years. Since I paid it off in 3, I haven't had a payment in almost four years. Had I leased a car at $300/month, I would be out $14,400 (more if you include the interest earned in savings). As it stands, I've spent maybe $2000 in maintenance and repairs (a new set of tires was the most expensive single thing so far). All of which I'll be able to make up when I trade in the car.

If leasing is the only way you can afford the payment on a G8, just wait a year or two and pick up a nice used one.

300x12x7=25,200

You telling me your car only cost 11,200?

Let's keep it real here

Those are just crazy numbers

I leased the car, negotiated a price below MSRP of 25275 - remember this was back in 2005 - agreed value of the car was 22531 - I may have made the mistake back then of putting money down on the lease - 2291 -- my total payments was 10486...so 291/month for 36 - pretty good deal...

But now I need to lease or buy again, this was my first lease experience and it was a good one...

My previous car was a Dodge Intrepid, drove it to the ground - 11 years over 200,000 miles on the thing

Well I'm 24 and a recent college grad. Demo or not, I have no mortgage, kids etc. And a well paying job.

I want a g8.

Leasing is actually a very good way to drive a car. Very few cars increase in value and those that do usually start to increase only after many years have gone by. So as you drive your car it is costing you money in terms of depreciating value. Why should you have your cash tied up in a car that is only depreciating in value?

If you do, and you think you are saving money because you don't have a car payment, you are only kidding yourself. And if you do still want to do things that way you should be putting away money to make your next cash purchase otherwise you will be caught short when the time comes. :popcorn2:

Leasing is a good option if you don't plan on piling on the miles. I drive almost 20K a year so leasing doesn't make sense for me. My 2004 Grand Prix is up to about 84K miles, and I plan on giving it to a family member when I move on to another car (possibly the G8).

That probably won't last long.

I work 6.2 miles from home - so that's why the lease option really interested me back in 2005 - I did some number crunching from the pontiac side and the bare-bones G8 V6 can be leased for under $500

You can always do one of those new 9 year financing deals.:sneaky: Yep 108 months of payment before ownership and guaranteed to put you "upside down" for the life of the loan.:eek2:

Leasing is a good option if you don't plan on piling on the miles. I drive almost 20K a year so leasing doesn't make sense for me. My 2004 Grand Prix is up to about 84K miles, and I plan on giving it to a family member when I move on to another car (possibly the G8).

I appreciate your point of view, but I do 20K and the lease on my '06 Goat is built that way so that I won't have a "surprise" at the end. My personal opinion is that a car is about the WORST investment anyone can make, and I am a car guy. They do nothing but sink in value. I decided long ago that I was sick and tired of the song and dance from dealers about how much my trade was worth when it came time for a new car and it is about the single most important factor in deciding to lease. The day they start putting ridiculously low residuals on leases is the day that I'll reconsider my strategy, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

I will be looking to get a 3-4 year loan, and no more. I don't want to be 5 years out in a loan and have 100K miles on the car already.

I appreciate your point of view, but I do 20K and the lease on my '06 Goat is built that way so that I won't have a "surprise" at the end. My personal opinion is that a car is about the WORST investment anyone can make, and I am a car guy. They do nothing but sink in value. I decided long ago that I was sick and tired of the song and dance from dealers about how much my trade was worth when it came time for a new car and it is about the single most important factor in deciding to lease. The day they start putting ridiculously low residuals on leases is the day that I'll reconsider my strategy, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon.


But once you "buy" extra mileage into a lease, doesn't that dramatically jump up the monthly payment? The cheapest lease payments are advertised for 12K, and now even 10K miles per year. My brother leases for work and puts 30K miles into his payment, but he's paying almost a grand a month for the lease.

I appreciate your point of view, but I do 20K and the lease on my '06 Goat is built that way so that I won't have a "surprise" at the end. My personal opinion is that a car is about the WORST investment anyone can make, and I am a car guy. They do nothing but sink in value. I decided long ago that I was sick and tired of the song and dance from dealers about how much my trade was worth when it came time for a new car and it is about the single most important factor in deciding to lease. The day they start putting ridiculously low residuals on leases is the day that I'll reconsider my strategy, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

Leasing really only makes sense if you want a new car every few years. It also only makes financial sense if you can get a subsidized lease. However, if they're doing subsidized leases on a car, they usually have pretty good purchase considerations anyway (low APR or incentive money). The latter is almost always better in the long run over the former, however.

Using the 24/mo figure of $567/month, let's consider that two year period. That's an outlay of $13,608 (not counting the origination fees and any penalties at surrender) for the lease. Doesn't sound bad, right? Well, let's take this out longer. Over the next 6 years, you get 3 24-month leases:

0-24: $567/month
24-48: $500/month (got a bit cheaper car)
48-72: $450/month (you lucked out and got a factory subsidized lease)

$13,608 + $12,000 + $10,800 = $36,408

(this isn't a likely scenario - the lessor would likely need to pay more later on due to "moving up" to a better vehicle and just plain inflation)

At the end of all of this, you've paid at least $36k in lease money and you have nothing to show for it. Meanwhile, the guy that plunked down $30k has just paid $30k for a car to drive and can keep as long as they want. Furthermore, it will also have a some value when it's done. In my case, after 7 years, Edmunds TMV says that I can get $8k on a dealer trade-in and even more if I sold it privately (although I expect to not get any more than $7k in the real world). The guy with a lease wouldn't even have that.

Also, consider that as the value of the car drops, so does the insurance cost as well as the DMV fees (in CA, anyway). That's further savings. In terms of insurance, if you own the car, you have no insurance minimums other than those mandated by law. For instance, some leases and loans require a $500 deductible for comprehensive insurance. There's usually significant cost savings if you go from $500 to say $1000 or $1500.

You may be saying, well I can invest that $30k and do better. That may be true, but probably not. If you put $30k away in the bank and you're able to 5% per year for 6 years, that will be about $40k after 6 years, before taxes. After taxes (assuming a 25% tax bracket), it will be cut to about $38k. If you adjust that for inflation (3.0%), it's cut to about $32k. So, you've spent $36k to make $2k in savings and you still don't have a car at the end of 6 years.

I see so many similarties with the GTO launch its scary...flying blind the first time I can excuse...but the second 4 years later is hard to believe.
Especially if this car is to compete with BMW, Infiniti, etc...because BMW just lowered their lease program significantly. :popcorn2:

Curious what numbers you have that show BMW just lowered their lease program?


And Gr8 you are absolutely correct leasing is not the best for some people. Then again they get to have a new car ever 2 years and keep up with their image.

Personally what i have done is saved 25k for whatever car that i wanted. Have it sitting in a CD earning crappy interest rates ATM.

But what i plan and hope to have happen is i walk into the dealer and get my supplier GM pricing or as close to invoice as possible.

Then hopefully have GM incentives like 0 APR for 60 months or 2,000 off. Take the cash most likely right off and have that pay for the TTYL that the 30k sticker is going to cost me.

Get a decent trade in amount to cover the other 5k that i still would owe.

Setup to pay for the car in 1 or 2 year or at the minimal interest charge i would get. Have my separate account debited each month in equal increments to pay for the car.

Start saving for my next car from day one of driving it off the lot.

I've taken the money I was using to pay my car loan (now that it is paid off) and continue to deposit it into an ING account. This account was making 5+% interest last year, but is now down to 4% - still much better than a savings or checking account. This money will be used to buy my next vehicle when the time comes.

gr8, just a couple obvious points about your post: you have two "lease ONLY makes sense if" scenarios. If one is making a payment at $500/mo, there is not a staggered rate, i.e. you don't get to add the $568/mo to the next tier of $500/mo. In your scenario, assuming 36 mo. lease, the payment is about $18,000 while for 60 mos., it's $27,000. Using those figures though it doesn't seem bad to pay 50% of the vehicle over 3 years as this would most likely be either about right or about right with financing charges. Of course, in a few months, the lease rates will be much sweeter than that and I can wait. :)

The one "only" scenario that was left out is the vehicle value. Assuming nothing is put down, you're only paying for depreciation so you will never be upside down on a lease.

A Lease makes a ton of sense IMHO "IF" you get a descent discount off the MSRP (since this is going to be divided into each month you pay), don't drive a lot of miles and most important to me, don't want to haggle with "what's my car really worth" during your next trade in.

To me buying a car only makes sense if you buy the vehicle drive the wheels off it, then trade it in as a $2K clunker when you're ready for a new one.

A car is the WORST investment you could possibly ever make.

My fiance and I just got a CX-9 36K/15K per year lease.

$38K MSRP
$33K Negotiated Price
$450 per month taxes included (2.11% financing) Total paid at end of Lease $16,200

To buy that same vehicle at their current financing rates (which are excellent)
$1,002 (1.99% for 36 months) Total paid at end of term $36,072
$628 (2.99% for 60 months) Total paid at end of term $37,680

So you're saving right at $20K over the term

A one year old CX-9 (they've only been out for two years) trade in is $26K, so the vehicle has lost 12K off the MSRP in one year. Good luck trying to get your $20K trade in on a three year old vehicle with 45K miles.

Yea leases favor those that aren't planning on big miles. They are also nice if you are a small business owner (or large) and the company picks up the tab. For everyone else, I don't see the attraction except maybe lower monthly payments.

I learned my lesson with a lease years ago, buy or bust for me.

gr8, just a couple obvious points about your post: you have two "lease ONLY makes sense if" scenarios. If one is making a payment at $500/mo, there is not a staggered rate, i.e. you don't get to add the $568/mo to the next tier of $500/mo. In your scenario, assuming 36 mo. lease, the payment is about $18,000 while for 60 mos., it's $27,000. Using those figures though it doesn't seem bad to pay 50% of the vehicle over 3 years as this would most likely be either about right or about right with financing charges. Of course, in a few months, the lease rates will be much sweeter than that and I can wait. :)[QUOTE=G8 Lover;16765]

Is it ever a good deal to pay for 50% of something and get nothing in the end?

The example showed 3 different 2-year leases there during the 6-year period. If you get two $500 leases with 3-year terms, you're still out $36,000 ($500 x 6 years x 12 mos) and don't have a car left at the end of all of this.

That's why the lease rates look attractive to most people - they're not thinking long term. They don't realize the total cost of the lease and only see the low monthly payment. This is the same trick that car dealers pay with the "four square" sheet at the finance desk. They also don't realize that at the end of the two-year term, they'll have to get another vehicle, which may or may not have the same favorable terms.

So far, I've owned 4 cars, only financed one car, and have never leased (at 2.9% - couldn't beat that rate). All of the other ones I've owned, I've paid for in cash. I do like the others have suggested and keep a money market account around and make monthly deposits to it as if I was making a car payment. When it's time for me to get a new car, I just pay for it in cash and start the cycle over again.

[QUOTE=G8 Lover;16765]The one "only" scenario that was left out is the vehicle value. Assuming nothing is put down, you're only paying for depreciation so you will never be upside down on a lease.

The vehicle value was mentioned at the end of the 4th paragraph. The guy at You're only upside down if you sell the car. If you keep the car for 6 years, you probably won't be upside down. Furthermore, at the end of your lease terms you will need to get another vehicle, meaning that you may need to settle for whatever is out there at the time. Note that you can be upside down in a lease if you get in an accident or if the vehicle gets stolen and you do not have the proper amount of insurance. To avoid this, you should carry gap insurance (another leasing expense).

If there's something to take away from this, is that leases exist to make the leasing company money. They do not exist to help you keep your money. If you like to get a new car every 2 years, that's fine - but it's never a sound financial decision leasing or buying. But, hey you've got to spend your money somehow. :)

Just don't ask me to pay off your 16.5% adjustable ARM with my tax money, either. :)

Finally, one more word about leasing - not owning stuff is really bad for the soul. Case in point: my brother used to lease cars all the time (he's younger than me and has been through twice as many cars). He was always bumming rides off of people and renting cars, even though he had a nice ride in his garage. Why? Because he was constantly worried about going over the milage limits. If you've never owned a car outright, you should definitely do it at least once. It's an awesome feeling to know that you can drive the car as much as you want, keep it as long as you want, and that the only people that can tow it away are the government.

If you don't get Gap insurance on any car purchase your going to be out money in the case of a total loss (unless you put a huge amount down). It is not a lease only expense whatsoever.

I would rather worry about going over on miles with a lease rather than worrying about dropping a tranny or throwing a rod and then be out a ton of money.

There is plus and minuses to every side. To each his own....

I can understand the points having been made, that if you are going to keep a car 7 to 10 years and you are disciplined enough to save the cash you need for the next car, then it possibly makes sense to buy as opposed to lease.

On the other hand, my preference is based on my personal experience which is:

1) When cars get too old, they need more and more maintenance, which is a sunk cost. Many of the parts of the car wear out simply as a function of age.
2) If you own the vehicle, you will need to find a buyer that is willing to pay what you think it is worth when you are ready to trade. (extra risk to you, the owner)
3) Most leases (read 'em) are written such that the leasing company will settle with your insurance company in the event of a total loss, stolen or wrecked. (means they accept the payout as paid in full)
4) No matter how long you own a car, it will continue to decline in value, this is a hidden cost that most people never factor in and it is a risk of ownership that is eliminated with leasing.

Based on these risk factors and the need to have dependable transportation and a personal desire to eliminate the worry of whether my 7 year old car with 100K miles is going to start and run, I am the type of buyer who will be in the market every 3-4 years for new car. Several times in my life, I kept cars beyond the point where the maintenance ate me up and I decided ENUF! NEVERAGAIN!

Combine this with the fact that you can buy the car at the stated residual value if you really really love it, that is a simple math formula...capitalized cost minus the depreciation portion of your payments. Your "money factor" cost is the interest that is imputed in the lease and is a sunk cost just like the interest you would pay on a loan.

I could buy a $36,000 car and in 7 years, drop a new engine, replace the suspension, and insert a new tranny for less than it would cost to buy two 36,000 cars in 6 years.

When you look at the money you spend in buying a new car every 3 years with the intent on going on doing so, you will have less money in the end. I'd rather pay the maint. fee. That way, I can do more than just drive, sleep, and poop. ;)

I could buy a $36,000 car and in 7 years, drop a new engine, replace the suspension, and insert a new tranny for less than it would cost to buy two 36,000 cars in 6 years.

When you look at the money you spend in buying a new car every 3 years with the intent on going on doing so, you will have less money in the end. I'd rather pay the maint. fee. That way, I can do more than just drive, sleep, and poop. ;)

Thanks for the tip, you are a funny guy! Most people want something new once in a while.

longtaddy - What front facia is that in your avatar ?

Some of the scenarios above don't hold water. Most any car today will go 150,000 miles with a minimum of maintenance expense, just oil, filters, tires, brakes, antifreeze and tranny service if you insist on driving a slushbox. My last 6 cars have all had over 150,000 miles on them, all purchased new, and none had any major repairs. Keeping them in good shape also gives you the option to time your next purchase to the market and not get caught up in buying one off the lot. Lease if you think it's best, but the bottom line isn't much different unless you can deduct the lease payments as a business expense.

I will never suggest that leasing is right for everyone. For me it is, I have no doubt!

I look for the subsidized lease programs where they either artificialy inflate the residual, or put rock bottom money factors in the lease and I built an Excel formula so that I can figure out what they are doing.

The bottom line is there are both straight quantifiable factors as well as subjective judgments that are involved in deciding what is right for you.

:bomb:

Hehe thread DERAIL :D The point wasnt really to say that leasing is good or bad but that Pontiac is making the SAME exact mistakes they did on the 04 GTO ;)

Getting back to the original purpose of this thread...Pontiac can't afford any marketing mistakes on the G8 or any other vehicles for that matter. When you can buy a Mercedes C300 Sport with six speed manual at around $32 big ones, and lease it for around $475/month, it shows you how tough the competition will be in this price point for this class of vehicle.

No more mistakes!!:damnyou:

Getting back to the original purpose of this thread...Pontiac can't afford any marketing mistakes on the G8 or any other vehicles for that matter. When you can buy a Mercedes C300 Sport with six speed manual at around $32 big ones, and lease it for around $475/month, it shows you how tough the competition will be in this price point for this class of vehicle.

No more mistakes!!:damnyou:

C300 ($32k version) - V6, 228 hp, 212 lb-ft
G8 ($30k version) - V8, 361 hp, 385 lb-ft

I know some say the G8 is "spartan" inside and lacks "creature comforts" but for the price it's not a bad bang for the buck. I hope that the car rags do a fair comparison BY DOLLAR, not number of cylinders, between the MB, Audi, and BMW COST counterparts.

I can assure you that, as a past BMW service manager, the BMWs and MBs will eat your lunch on required maintenance and repairs unless you trade it when the warranty is up. Even so, mandatory service intervals are expensive. One of the reasons the "high end" imports hold resale value a bit better is because you are forced to perform scheduled maintenance in order to keep the warranty in force. MB doesn't have the best current quality or frequency of repair records in recent years, and there have been some embarrassing quality control issues. You pay for status as much as for the car.

My Holden-built GTO has had absolutely nothing done to it except routine maintenance and an alignment. The G8 should be the same way since Holden has had them down in the outback before we got them.

On the subject of leasing, there ain't no free lunch. The big depreciation hit is the first year. Someone pays that, either you or the lessor, and you can bet they won't lose money on that deal. If you take immaculate care of your cars and run 'em a year or two beyond the point where the resale value flattens out, you can come out way above a lease. If you insist on a new car every couple of years, low mileage, then lease away. My annual maintentance costs are way, way below what a lease payment would be.

You've got to compare the 32K Mercedes to the 28K Pontiac. Both are V6s. Then you have to consider that GMs operational costs are considerably high. THEN you have to consider that this car comes from the land down under where people aren't so picky like over here. Everything doesn't have to be fru fru and made to grace god's behind.

But more to the point. 4,000 dollars (not including the operational advantage Mercedes has over GM) goes a long way in trinketry and "doo-dads" as well as some fine details in the way the upholstery is done. If GM could can the UAW, you'd probably see more of that in their cars. Unfortunately, that isn't gonna happen.

And mind you, I've been in plenty of Mercedes from 32k to 100k. A 32k Mercedes is not that extremely impressive to me. Its impressive, but not to the point where I'm completely WOWED... It takes more than a rear window shade and electronic adjustable seats... But then, to completely wow me is pretty much impossible anyways for the cars that I can afford.... Bottom line is, people that are buying the G8 would have to buy something a lot more expensive from Germany to get what they want. These cares are performers, fun to drive.. Ultimate comfort is left to luxury. Pontiac is not Luxury. Maybe some day, but not today.....



I keep editing this darn post :p

C300= 88 cubic feet
G8 = 107 cubic feet

One is a large car the other is small one.

Yeah, the C Class is not a big car to boot. That's right, GigaHz.

Did some number crunching on pontiac site - just an estimate if MSRP
48 month lease on Base G8 model with 1,000 down - a tad over $400/month - might be do-able after all...

No on wants the G8 and the "General" to succeed more than I do, and when you get down to it I am really excited about the G8 coming out and hope the GXP version is really in everybody's face. But, buyers are not stupid, look if you assume at the end of two years a Pontiac is worth 60% of MSRP and a Mercedes is worth 65%, then the cost of owning a $32K Mercedes C300 is on a par with the cost of owning a $28K Pontiac. ($28K X .40 = $11.2K) ($32K X .35 = $11.2K). These might not be the actual residual numbers, but you get my point.

I am not saying they are the same car. I am saying merely they "might" appeal to the same buyer. I hear you on the size issue, that isn't a deciding factor for everyone. These are both "drivers" sedans, and at the end of the day I would probably buy the Pontiac, more for subjective reasons than financial.

My purpose in pointing all of this out is to show how critical it is for the General to get its marketing act together and reach every prospective buyer of the G8 and motivate him to buy.

If size is one of your primary qualifying factors, then it is probably more fair to compare the G8 to the E class Mercedes or the 5 series BMW, and once you do that there is no contest in the cost part of the equation. I have always thought of the G8 as a poor man's BMW 5.

:rant::rant::rant:

Last week alone I had to have brake work done on both of my vehicles to the tune of about $1000. Even though that seems like a lot of money, it is still only slightly more than one car payment for both, as I was paying about $800 a month combined on the two. Every year without a car payment is almost $10K in the bank.

These might not be the actual residual numbers, but you get my point.

Pontiac set the residual on my lease at 54%.

Good lord, the residulat quote I got on a 24/12K was 60% which is HORRID.

The residual on a 2008 BMW 335i is 72%, which makes for a nice lease payment.

I guess I made my point...the cost of owning a car is never just what you pay to roll it off the lot, but what you pay today, less what you get back when you turn it in. Residuals are based on historic trade-in values. When you lease, you pay pretty close to what the true cost of owning the car is excluding the money factor.

When I bought my GTO, I didn't really look at much else because there wasn't much that really could compete with it...Mustang GT? No, 350Z? No, only two seats, no V8, G35 Coupe?, Not quite.

The G8 is going to be competing in a more crowded field, there are a lot of sports oriented sedans with a good balance of performance and handling, so getting back to the point...GM had better have this right all the way around. The car is great, but they better market it right and have the best lease and/or purchase plans they can put together or Pontiac may be going the way of Oldsmobile soon.

:cry:

What is a recommended down payment on a +30k car?

It's really up to you. What do you want your monthly payments to be? Do you mind being "upside down" on the loan? As a rule of thumb though, I'd say the larger the downpayment, the better off you are. Personally, I'll probably only have $5-6K to put down. Unless I purchase at the end of the year and then I'll have a little more.

I always say nothing, then come up with some at the end to get much better rates. Everything is negotiable. And put down the least on a lease as possible. I've been able to pull off 0 down on a lease:)

The residual on a 2008 BMW 335i is 72%, which makes for a nice lease payment.

Cadillac's right behind on the CTS with 71% 2 year lease

Think it's possible to put 0 to 1,000 down on this G8 - I would like to lease again (just finishing my 2005 G6 lease) - and been hoping for a payment of under 500 - did the pricing on the base g8 model and with 1,000 down it is under 500, could be a good sign - and maybe I can negotiate a bit...my last lease for the g6 gt was 291/month - 15,000 miles/year - 3 years...not a bad deal...

thanks...er

The residual on a 2008 BMW 335i is 72%, which makes for a nice lease payment.


According to Bimmerfest: 335i sedan is 71% for 15K miles per year; 73% for 12K miles; 74% for 10K miles.
Crazy good residuals!

Hell, I lease my 2006 trailblazer ss for about $420 per month with about 1k down. I figure you should be able to get the gt's for somewhere in the upper 3' to low 4's per month and the gxp's for upper 4's to low 5's per month, when its all said and done !!!!

oh well uber cheap 08's when the 09's come in
2004 GTO Deja Vu

It will never be that good again...;-)

For those that don't know, I leased an 04 GTO (right when the 05s came out) for 2 yrs for ~$1700, yes $1700 total, I wrote a check and no payments for 2 years...it was a close to a free car as I could get.

I don't think we will see that kind of thing....that's why the residual is lower, the 04 had a high residual making the lease a better option (esp when combined with GM pricing and GM card bonuses).

G8 should move well, even the 08s, unlike the 04 GTOs.

I don't think I would lease again unless its a steal, my GTP is a buy, I only have 45K miles on it and it should be paid off in May. I could trade it or just keep it as a winter car....the only thing FWD is really good for.

Well I'm not going to lease. I want my payments under 500. Lets say the gxp goes for 36k.

I put down 10K, will my payments be under 500 a month or are there other variables that go into play?

Well I'm not going to lease. I want my payments under 500. Lets say the gxp goes for 36k.

I put down 10K, will my payments be under 500 a month or are there other variables that go into play?

With that scenario, at 6% interest, you will need to finance for 60 months to get the loan payment to just about $500.

I though about leasing the G8 for the wife but since I have been keeping my cars longer and longer might as well buy.

I could of done the $199/month lease on the GTO and sometimes wish I did. GM whipped out the $5000 off a GTO + CC bonus cash 2 weeks after I bought mine. :shiner:

With that scenario, at 6% interest, you will need to finance for 60 months to get the loan payment to just about $500.

6 years isn't bad. I will hope we can get better than 6%. I see low apr commercials all the time...

60 months is 5 years...;)

Things are going to get tough for loans in the U.S. in the upcoming year(s) for several reasons. First, the economy is trashed because of the unregulated sub-prime mortgage loan debacle, the "cooked books" from many major corporations, and the false profit reporting that goes with it. Lenders, even when the feds lower interest rates, are gunshy about lending any money that has a slight risk of not being repaid. It will become increasingly difficult for even people with fairly good credit to qualify for reasonable loan rates, much less low rates. The 0% and 2.9% financing will go to the CAFE-friendly cars that are going to glut the lots, not to the cars we all love. I would also use this logic to argue against any dealer greedy enough to add fees over and above MSRP. They're going to have a lot of last minute loan deals turned down and a lot of cars will be sitting on the lots, unsold, especially on the low end. Just MHO, but I've been here before .....

Soon enough mortgage lenders are going to charge extra points or higher rates to people with credit scores of less than 730. Its getting crazier and crazier.

They're also starting to try and put a premium on these cars. I talked to Farrish Pontiac in Fairfax, VA today and they want $10k over sticker for their first 888 G8.

Bwahhaha 10K over? They are high.. ahh yes $200 a month 08's in what 6-7 months?

I'm not sure if this is in the proper section or not, and I'm too tired too really give a hoot. Anyways, after fifty phone calls and close to a hundred emails, I finally convinced a dealer in the Dallas area to sell their car for only $500 over MSRP. Now hang on, they threw in a tint job, oil changes for a year and wheel/tire "road hazard" insurance for nada. So I conceded that it evened out and threw in the towel. I want my car. I passed on the 888 cuz of the roof, and am getting one with everything but the sport package.

Now here's the meat of the email: When it came to financing, our dear friends at GM in the neverending goal to make the G8 fail like the GTO, are only offering the wondeful rate of 5.9% for 60 mos. I had decided to go with my credit union whose rate for 60 mos was 5.25%. When I told the finance dude this, he instantly offered me %5 flat through GMAC. He never asked the name of my CU or to see any proof that they were offering a better rate. I sure wish I woulda said 3% or something. So for those of you preparing for battle, give it a shot and say ur getting a better rate elsewhere, it may work out for ya.

They say the car should should be delivered either tomorrow or Friday (Dallas). We shall see.

More Deja Vu

The closest dealer to me got three G8s in last night. Two GTs, one V6. The GTs are already gone, the V6 I got to check out tonight.

It's marked up $2,000 and has another $800 "desert protection" package. Dealers will kill any price advantage this car had at MSRP and gouge those interested that need a new car right now.

GTO v2.0

Let's not be shy. It was Peoria Pontiac that is gouging people but as long as there are morons willing to pay that crap, what can we do?? That is why I have my deposit at another valley dealership and they said they will come down $500.00 off of sticker. Not much, but better than over. Supposedly, invoice is $967.00 under MSRP anyway. Damn.

By the way, anyone in Phoenix metro area, boycot Peoria Pontiac!!!!!

Go to Edmonds.com and you can find MSRP and dealer invoice pricing. On an '08 G8GT, the base MSRP is $29,310, leather is $1,250 and shipping is $685 for a total of $31,245. Sport and roof would be more, but this is for comparison. Dealer invoice for the same things are $27,845 + $1,038 + $685 = $29,568. That makes a difference of $1,677 for that example. There are other dealer incentives that we don't see, but there isn't a lot of markup for them to work with. On the other hand, making more than $2,000 on a sale is robbery, and they do get a kickback on any financing thru GMAC or other lender. Do not let these dealers screw you on this car. Pontiac has absolutely no control over this travesty. Buy from reputable dealers, not from con-artists.

60 months is 5 years...;)


haha good looks. And to think I have a B.S in engineering :rofl:

I can understand the points having been made, that if you are going to keep a car 7 to 10 years and you are disciplined enough to save the cash you need for the next car, then it possibly makes sense to buy as opposed to lease.

On the other hand, my preference is based on my personal experience which is:

1) When cars get too old, they need more and more maintenance, which is a sunk cost. Many of the parts of the car wear out simply as a function of age.
2) If you own the vehicle, you will need to find a buyer that is willing to pay what you think it is worth when you are ready to trade. (extra risk to you, the owner)
3) Most leases (read 'em) are written such that the leasing company will settle with your insurance company in the event of a total loss, stolen or wrecked. (means they accept the payout as paid in full)
4) No matter how long you own a car, it will continue to decline in value, this is a hidden cost that most people never factor in and it is a risk of ownership that is eliminated with leasing.

Based on these risk factors and the need to have dependable transportation and a personal desire to eliminate the worry of whether my 7 year old car with 100K miles is going to start and run, I am the type of buyer who will be in the market every 3-4 years for new car. Several times in my life, I kept cars beyond the point where the maintenance ate me up and I decided ENUF! NEVERAGAIN!

Combine this with the fact that you can buy the car at the stated residual value if you really really love it, that is a simple math formula...capitalized cost minus the depreciation portion of your payments. Your "money factor" cost is the interest that is imputed in the lease and is a sunk cost just like the interest you would pay on a loan.

Amen Leasing all the way. Drive a car for 3 or 4 years worry free with just maintenance. The maintenance is not even bad anymore because i can go 6 to 8 thousand miles on an oil change with the oil life system. Gotta love them, and if I should every have a problem I get a free tow, free rental car, and free rapair. Being the cool guy with new car all the time is kinda nice to.



How can you go wrong?

Depends on what your lease payments are compared to a car payment, and what your trade in value is when you buy a new one. There ain't no free lunch.

I prefer leasing as well, but if these residuals are as bad some are saying, I may have to think about purchasing the car instead.

There may not be a free lunch, but maybe some free samiches........

Let's not be shy. It was Peoria Pontiac that is gouging people but as long as there are morons willing to pay that crap, what can we do??

By the way, anyone in Phoenix metro area, boycot Peoria Pontiac!!!!!

Wow, you guessed it. :shiner:

I'm heading to Henry Brown to drive a GT today.

Trishield, Corey Pontiac has a Black and Magnetic Grey but the boneheads are wanting $2500 over MSRP. Add them to your boycott list.

Henry Brown has my deposit for an Ignition Orange sport package. Just a waiting game now. Which one did you test drive, the black or white one?

I got a killler rate on mine...bought it last week $1K under sticker....
i put hardley anything down...( why waste it.when u can use it for exhaust and CAI) payments only $550 a month..thats nothing...for a car of this caliber....

[QUOTE=1992B4C;18495]Trishield, Corey Pontiac has a Black and Magnetic Grey but the boneheads are wanting $2500 over MSRP. Add them to your boycott list.
QUOTE]

Yep, drove that black one at Coury the day they got those two in. Went back a week later and they couldn't get the grey one to start after an earlier test drive...wonder what the problem was?!?

Glendale Pontiac has a red one, but they are over MSRP too. Guy said he didn't know how much (WTF?!?) but that it was "the least amount over MSRP in the valley". Days earlier a salesman at Henry Brown said they "never mark up over MSRP!" We'll see. STICK TO YOUR GUNS EVERYBODY!!

Paying a penny over sticker is like flushing cash down the toilet! You will never see it again. Lease residuals are based on MSRP, not selling price. The fact that the residuals look low on this car means that the financing companies are figuring these cars will be discounted to move them. That may be a premature judgment, but unfortunately for anyone in the market for the car today it means it would be extremely foolish to pay over sticker. Tell any dealer who is trying that tactic to go ahead and sit on the vehicles for a few months and pay the floorplan interest, then call you back.:popcorn2:

Those of you not willing to compromise on your V8s, I think will get a small price break with patience.

Those of us willing to possibly take a V6 are going to do MUCH MUCH better by waiting.... the average Pontiac mid/large sedan buyer is currently very spoiled by being able to buy a family car (GP) for $20k. When that buyer sees $27k on the sticker they are going to run. The non-enthusiast won't care that the car is RWD, or has an advanced sport suspension. They just need a comfortable amount of space, decent trunk, and four doors, in something that looks sporty.

I see the V6s piling up on lots and I would guess rebates of $3000 are going to be needed unless GM gets the mix right fast. Around me right now, nothing but V6s.

Those of you not willing to compromise on your V8s, I think will get a small price break with patience.

Those of us willing to possibly take a V6 are going to do MUCH MUCH better by waiting.... the average Pontiac mid/large sedan buyer is currently very spoiled by being able to buy a family car (GP) for $20k. When that buyer sees $27k on the sticker they are going to run. The non-enthusiast won't care that the car is RWD, or has an advanced sport suspension. They just need a comfortable amount of space, decent trunk, and four doors, in something that looks sporty.

I see the V6s piling up on lots and I would guess rebates of $3000 are going to be needed unless GM gets the mix right fast. Around me right now, nothing but V6s.

I agree. The V6 will be discounted before the V8. The V6 G8 I drove picked up pretty fast. My GP has more torque down low. But other than that I was impressed.

TO go from a V6 to a V8 today..would cost you only maybe $60 to $80 bucks more a month....why not just get the v8? THe v6 is a hella good motor but why wait.you can get a deal now...you just need to shop around....

My guess would of been 25-35. College Grads: 25%, House Income: 50-75K

Just my best guess

And that would be why Americans carry more debt than they know what to do with and have less in savings at any point since the the Great Depression. 30 y/o with a combined household income of 63k shouldn't be buying $30k cars. More like $17k cars or used.

That's very true. Why do people who make 50K/year get 500K mortgages? Because the banks let them. Now they are paying the price. I see so many young kids driving Escalades and Hummers, it's insane. I know a lot of 22 year olds who are waiting in line for the G8 and most of them make 15 bucks an hour at most. I guess they live for the moment and don't worry about the future.

And that would be why Americans carry more debt than they know what to do with and have less in savings at any point since the the Great Depression. 30 y/o with a combined household income of 63k shouldn't be buying $30k cars. More like $17k cars or used.

If the 30 year old who makes 63k saves up a healthy downpayment and/or has the extra disposable income, then why the hell not? It's all about his budget and how high his bills/etc are.

^ agreed. It's about priorities. Perhaps the 30 year old would rather skip a vacation, buy a cheaper house, not party on the weekends and save up his beer money.

It's your choice. If a car is more important to you then a nice house, then go for it. I knew a guy that used to drive armature stock cars. He lived in a trailer park. He didn't care about his house and really enjoyed his car. Wouldn't be my route, but to each his own.

One other thing to consider is the cost of living where that person is making $63K.......because $63K in Arkansas is not the same as $63K in say, a west coast city, or eastern seaboard city. Look at home prices in Seattle, and what you get for those $$, look at LA, then look at Lincoln, NE or Memphis, TN. Big difference I guarantee!:angel:

Good points. If a guy is 30 living by himself and making 63K he can rent a decent apartment for 700/month (non-west coast city) and still have plenty of money left for a G8 payment.

I know a lot of 22 year olds who are waiting in line for the G8 and most of them make 15 bucks an hour at most. I guess they live for the moment and don't worry about the future.

Yep, been there, was 18-19, good job, VM looking us in the face, '67 Goat was the answer, nice but frugal du-plex, no savings but some of the best fun ....with no 401 k fund worries etc...oldies said the same about us back them...liked it so much, 69 & 72 goats followed...

It's all relative, I make 40,000 a year. But my house (paid for) and utilities only run me 300 a month, so a 480 car payment is no big deal.

Or a guy..can live in cali, have corporate paid luxury housing, make $60K with no other bills than his G8 and have a live in gf working as a Cardiac Cath Lab RN clearing $95K yearly hereself....a $600 G8 payment is not really all that bad..in that scenario.. :)
We save 20% min. long and short term each pay period...its not how much you make...its how you spend it..
and how you invest it
(

Corporate paid luxury housing. Sounds cool :)

ok, I've been watching this car for quit some time and it is on a very short list of cars that will be replacing my (lease up) mazda rx8.

It was actually my first choice as I was looking forward to a RWD, near 50/50, manual, that can handle. 360 hp was fine for me and I really don't need tire ripping power.

Then I start hearing some disappointing things about the G8. The manuals were originally suppose to come out late in the year for the Gt, no prob, I can wait. Now I hear they will be coming out next year and they might be available only on a new "upgraded" version (gxp?). Of course that means more power = more money, when a manual gt with 360 was fine for me.

Of course, my local dealer will be getting exactly 2 g8's for the rest of this year. The base , which was suppose to start at 27 is priced at 29x, and the GT which was suppose to be under 30 is 33ish.

Then I hear, you cannot order the options you want but have to take whats available when they hit the ports. On the pontiac website you are forced to take the premium package if you want the sports package, even if you don't want the premium package, raising the price in the 35K area.

So, now I am having some re-thought about this car. It's nice and has the things I am looking for but Gm will not allow me to have it the way I want it and now is forcing me to up-buy the car if I want the manual, and pay more for the car then it was originally hailed for.

Paying 35-38K for this car may seem like a deal for some, but when you consider what else you can buy in that price range, it doesn't look so hot anymore. Evo's, Sti's, camero's, merc's,and 350's are all in this price range.

The new BMW 135 only comes with 300hp but it's light and is getting in the low 5 sec 0-60 range...exactly what the heavier g8 is getting and for the same price range, better build quality, better handling, and better resale, it's hard not to seriously think about the bimmer...a 335 only a few bucks more.

I thought I was going to be in the GM family for the last year and a half, now...I'm not so sure...

The new BMW 135 only comes with 300hp but it's light and is getting in the low 5 sec 0-60 range...exactly what the heavier g8 is getting and for the same price range, better build quality, better handling, and better resale, it's hard not to seriously think about the bimmer...a 335 only a few bucks more.

If you call $10,000 a few bucks, then definitely, get your BMW. Good luck getting anyone in the back seat. And have fun once it rolls off warranty. Don't let the door kick you in the :bootyshake:

I lease so warranty issues are not an issue. the 135 is running in the 33 range so THAT is not a huge difference and in the end may be cheaper then the final manual G8...

It's too bad, I really liked this car, but what is GM thinking?

Limited supply, no flexible options, forced upgrade, forced up-buy, with a price that is not what they said it would be...

It might be about the same base price, but it's no bigger than your typical econobox. :barf: And once you add the options that bring it up to par with options the 32k G8 has, it's pushing 40k, for a tiny little car.

I lease so warranty issues are not an issue. the 135 is running in the 33 range so THAT is not a huge difference and in the end may be cheaper then the final manual G8...

It's too bad, I really liked this car, but what is GM thinking?

Limited supply, no flexible options, forced upgrade, forced up-buy, with a price that is not what they said it would be...

Now you're just being stupid. Good thing I have boots on. :rolleyes:

The BASE 135i coupe is $34,900, which is nowhere near $33K. Add the premium and sport packages (sport steering wheel, compass/mirror, lumbar support, etc.) with NO OPTIONS (heated front seats, iPod adapter for $400, etc.) and you are at $40,450.

And you still have only two doors. :wiggle:

So buy your Beemer, but don't make stuff up, k?

Doesn't the 135 come stock with vinyl seats?

Doesn't the 135 come stock with vinyl seats?

:quoties: Leatherette :quoties: to be exact. Add $1,450 for leather. :rolleyes:

:quoties: Leatherette :quoties: to be exact. Add $1,450 for leather. :rolleyes:

Unless you get the Premium Package, which includes leather. Um, lets see, what other car do you have to purchase the Premium Package to get leather....:angel:

Why would you want to lease one of these? One of the main reasons this car is so attractive is the purchase price!

The rates display that GM is choosing to sell this limited production vehicle and not lease it.

So go buy one!

Now you're just being stupid. Good thing I have boots on. :rolleyes:

The BASE 135i coupe is $34,900, which is nowhere near $33K. Add the premium and sport packages (sport steering wheel, compass/mirror, lumbar support, etc.) with NO OPTIONS (heated front seats, iPod adapter for $400, etc.) and you are at $40,450.

And you still have only two doors. :wiggle:

So buy your Beemer, but don't make stuff up, k?

Ok, I already stated I don't want premium on any car, and the sports package on the bimmer is $1600 and don't need any other package to get it.

If you think I'm dumping on the G8, your wrong, I love the car, but I'm having issues with what GM is doing to it and how it's marketed.

As far as comparable price....the local dealer told me the gxp version will be over 400 hp...lets see what the final price on one of those will end up at...

...The base , which was suppose to start at 27 is priced at 29x, and the GT which was suppose to be under 30 is 33ish.

...On the pontiac website you are forced to take the premium package if you want the sports package, even if you don't want the premium package, raising the price in the 35K area.

...Paying 35-38K for this car may seem like a deal for some, but when you consider what else you can buy in that price range, it doesn't look so hot anymore. Evo's, Sti's, camero's, merc's,and 350's are all in this price range.

The new BMW 135 only comes with 300hp but it's light and is getting in the low 5 sec 0-60 range...exactly what the heavier g8 is getting and for the same price range, better build quality, better handling, and better resale, it's hard not to seriously think about the bimmer...a 335 only a few bucks more.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions. Buy what you feel most comfortable spending your own money on. In fairness you could at least quote accurate numbers.

Base G8 GT MSRP=$29,999 < none available yet that I know of.
G8 GT + Premium + sport + sunroof i.e. loaded MSRP=$32,745 was just quoted from a dealer today.

Better priving car be had RIGHT NOW you just have to work for it.

No idea how you get a 35-38K range for a G8 GT.

There is more to cars than pricing. I don't think many people in the market for a G8 are cross shopping 135s, Evos STIs, or Z cars. They are different types of cars. All are smaller without v8s, size, v8, and rear wheel drive are the main draw of the G8 IMHO. You can't touch anything similar at this price point from any other marque.

I like BMWs, I have owned a few. Resale isn't very good once they are out of warranty, they aren't exactly trouble free and build quality is hit or miss. It is easy to over look though because they are a blast to drive anywhere.

I agree with what he is saying. I love the G8 and have always bought GM, but the way they are selling this car is a pain in the ass. I know its because they need to ship it half way around the world, but it could be better. When it comes to the mark-up, blame the dealers not GM. I understand its all about supply and demand but some of the dealers are just being jerks. It's starting to turn people off. If GM can't make enough to meet current demand, why are they advertising the hell out of it. It just creates a bidding war and disfranchises loyal customers. They need to ramp up production or open another plant if they want people to see the commericials and run out and buy one. No one wants to get hooked and then jump through the hoops which are going on. I am going to wait and try for an 09 but buying a car should not be this hard.

For those of you who haven't owned a Holden vehicle yet...hang in there, you are in for a treat. It's not even like a GM vehicle and I mean that in the most complimentary way.

I was not in the market for a car until 2006 and slowly but surely the GTO got my attention, I was able to get one that was what I wanted and this car is truly a treat to own and drive. Firstly, one of the things that makes it so much fun is the fact that it is relatively rare and I get stares from young guys and old guys alike going down the road. I can tell they're asking them selves...what is that!!??

As far as the marketing and distribution of the GTO and now the G8...it stinks!! My local dealer still hasn't had even one G8 to show. If this car is supposed to have a halo effect for Pontiac, it needs a lot of tweaking to make it effective.

I really think Pontiac is not long for this world as a brand. We have reached the tipping point where many once iconic brands really don't have a reason to exist. This is a shame because the brand has long had the image that I am looking for, yet lately when I step back and think, there is only one car in their line I would consider and that is the G8. But in the competitive auto market, making a car hard to get isn't going to win the day.

An automotive reporter told me the other day that he knows for a fact that there are Chevy mules of the G8 being tested. Chevy has a better more aggressive distribution network, but there needs to be a supply of these cars to sell, otherwise why bother? Let's be real, the world does not need another V6, four door, five passenger car. What makes the G8 an exciting prospect is the sizzle offered by the V8 and being able to buy a poor man's Beemer 5 series. But if you can't get it...you might as well forget it!!:nono::rant::banghead:

I agree with what he is saying. I love the G8 and have always bought GM, but the way they are selling this car is a pain in the ass. I know its because they need to ship it half way around the world, but it could be better. When it comes to the mark-up, blame the dealers not GM. I understand its all about supply and demand but some of the dealers are just being jerks. It's starting to turn people off. If GM can't make enough to meet current demand, why are they advertising the hell out of it. It just creates a bidding war and disfranchises loyal customers. They need to ramp up production or open another plant if they want people to see the commericials and run out and buy one. No one wants to get hooked and then jump through the hoops which are going on. I am going to wait and try for an 09 but buying a car should not be this hard.

Auto dealers suck. Car salesman are a just above toilet bowl slime in my book, But I can't fault GM for marketing the car the way they are. High demand for a low production (even temporarily) car creates "buzz" and "buzz" is good.

Auto dealers suck. Car salesman are a just above toilet bowl slime in my book, But I can't fault GM for marketing the car the way they are. High demand for a low production (even temporarily) car creates "buzz" and "buzz" is good.

You are not creating buzz delivering 777 cars in a one month period..........you're creating a whisper. And last time I checked, that isn't too good for business. Pontiac should be yelling about this car! After all the time they have taken getting it here, dealers should have been more knowledgeable about the product, informed about availability, and had much larger inventories of product to deal to customers. New product introductions go much better when a more reasonable amount of the product reaches the customers. 777 cars obviously didn't even get vehicles to all those desiring them from this forum alone, let alone the average joe out there wanting one!:stickpoke:

Every forum I frequent (this is the only G8 or Pontiac specific one) is buzzing about the G8. If you want a car now you can find a car now. If you can't find EXACTLY what you want, wait until the '09s hit the port, big deal they are bringing over how many thousands a month then? In my area I can have my pick of half a dozen red or black GTs today. The problem is most people do not want to pay full asking price, which is understandable, but not bad business from GM's viewpoint. We are spoiled by saturated markets and addicted to incentives. We want the latest and the greatest, and we want it RIGHT NOW at a discount. The fate of the US auto industry hinges upon breaking that addiction and selling cars that people will line up to pay MSRP for. Like BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, and many others already do.

As far as dealers being knowledgable about what they are selling, that is a pipe dream. Anybody that buys a car relying on the salesman to know much of anything is setting themselves up to be at least disappointed and at worst screwed. Personally I try to have as little interaction with a dealer as possible. I do most of my shopping over the phone. Usually only visit the dealer for a final inspection and sign the papers. Infact that is how I am getting my white 08 GT tomorrow. I already have an agreed on price just need to sign and drive. No market adjustment, no BS, just a handshake and done.

Not comparing a Ferrari to a G8, but why do you think they only built 349 Enzos? Not because they couldn't sell more but they figured the demand was for at least 350.

I understand what you are saying but at the same time I don't see a problem.

Not comparing a Ferrari to a G8, but why do you think they only built 349 Enzos? Not because they could sell more but they figured the demand was for at least 350.

I understand what you are saying but at the same time I don't see a problem.

I agree with what's been said about matching supply with demand and if it works for Pontiac and the dealers...great! However there is a difference between Pontiac and other brands that have loyal customers that pay full price, and that is GM has not demonstrated a wilingness in recent history to stick with something and develop it to the point where people will line up to pay full price for the car as is the case with the brands mentioned. And to top it off, Pontiac only has ONE truly unique car to offer in the G8. The rest are rebadged versions of other cars that can be had elsewhere. If Pontiac is going to survive as a brand it needs to be unique across the board. If they import the G8 ST and if they brought the sport wagon in too that would be a start at really making a statement. Will they do it? Will they make the BOLD move? Time will tell. My bet is no!.:nono:

My feelings are mixed about the ST. Is it cool? yes. Is it practical? eh maybe. Will it sell here? I doubt it. The GMC sprint, Chevy El Camino, Ford Rachero, Subaru Brat, and VW Rabbit/truck thing were not exactly run away sucesses and those are the only ones that come to mind right now, there were others.

I really think they would be onto something with the wagon if they brought it over. We will get sick of putting $4.00/gal gas in our SUVs but we still have alot of stuff to carry around. Station wagons by anyname really are the best of both worlds. Too bad "station wagon" has such a stigma in the the US market.

The pricing thing is tough. If they bring a car to market that people really want, not just because it is new but because it is good and do not flood the market through over production and fleet sales, the rest will take care of itself, eventually. Can I use that many commas in one sentence? Building cars that you can afford to sell at discount prices doesn't do much for "brand image." BMWs are great driving cars that people will pay close to MSRP or more for all day long. It has nothing to do with quality, they consistently rank fairly low on every quality study I have ever read. The average GM car is many times more reliable than anything from Germany. People buy the BMW over the Pontiac because the WANT a BMW. I realize there isn't really much cross over between the BMW and Pontiac lineups but I am just using them as examples.

If you want a car now you can find a car now. In my area I can have my pick of half a dozen red or black GTs today. The problem is most people do not want to pay full asking price, which is understandable, but not bad business from GM's viewpoint.

OK, that is great that the area that you live in (which is where by the way) has lots of G8s available. Mr. Lutz "smile states", i.e., the southeast, gulf, and southwest, all seem to have a decent supply. But, that is NOT true in all areas. Take the time to read thru a few more threads in this forum, and you will find quite a few people that are waiting for G8s to show up. And as far as price being an issue, NO, that is not true. Again, read thru the forum and you will find most members are more than willing to pay MSRP. We are NOT willing to pay outrageous markups OVER MSRP. Greed is the issue, in most cases, that G8s are sitting around in some areas. Don't know too many people that have an extra $2-10K over MSRP to pay a greedy dealer.:nono:

OK, that is great that the area that you live in (which is where by the way) has lots of G8s available. Mr. Lutz "smile states", i.e., the southeast, gulf, and southwest, all seem to have a decent supply. But, that is NOT true in all areas. Take the time to read thru a few more threads in this forum, and you will find quite a few people that are waiting for G8s to show up. And as far as price being an issue, NO, that is not true. Again, read thru the forum and you will find most members are more than willing to pay MSRP. We are NOT willing to pay outrageous markups OVER MSRP. Greed is the issue, in most cases, that G8s are sitting around in some areas. Don't know too many people that have an extra $2-10K over MSRP to pay a greedy dealer.:nono:

As much as I love my GTO and Holden, the market is far too competitive to justify paying anything over the fair price of the car, (MSRP). And because lease residuals are based on MSRP, anything you pay over sticker is being pissed away!:dunno: Besides that, my dealer doesn't have ONE G8 to show, nor does the dealer in the next town over.

CT has quite a fair amount of G8s in the state. In a search in AutoTrader, 50 miles from my zip (Central CT), I return 9 results.

Out of those 9, 7 are in the state of CT. of those 7 in Connecticut, there are only 2 V6 models, which leaves 5 GT models in the state of CT.

Those GT models are priced from $30,145 to $32,745. Which doesn't really look like a mark up at all.

Of course, those 2 V6 models are ~$29K, which I supposed would make them completely optioned up 6 cylinder models.

I don't see any problems with pricing out here in CT, and this is one of the states you would probably expect pretty good mark-up. 300Cs, Mercs, and BMWs are dime-a-dozen here. I see plenty of SRT-8s as well (300s, Chargers and Grand Cherokees all are driving by me all the time)

Oh, and how are they shipping only 777 models in one month when I see non-888 models in my area too? Wouldn't that mean that the first 888 models are already at their respective dealers and other dealerships are now getting their regular production models in?

I would never pay anything over MSRP for a car, ever. That would be dumb as I think most of you would agree. I usually pay well below MSRP. The G8 is the first car in a long time that I really think MSRP is a pretty fair price that I wouldn't mind paying, I'm not, but I would if I had to.

I didn't mean to offend anybody but BBBBGXP's original post sounded alot like the whining you typically hear on car boards. "WHA big bad GM is retarded, I have answers to all their problems, my dealer doesn't have a car 4 me! WTF, Pontiac1!!1!!1!!!?" When if you read between the lines usually equates to I can't afford said car or the dealer sucks but they won't shop around. The words are just text on the screen so no connotation can be conveyed, my bad.

But yes, in my market which is certainly not a sunshine or smile state, you can have your pick of at least half a dozen Red or Black cars at or slightly below MSRP. I have missed two grey ones by a mere day. Well as of yesterday you could. I found what I wanted, agreed on a price and will go check it out tomorrow. I am not posting where I live yet because I don't want one of you vultures snagging my car out from underneath me :)

CT has quite a fair amount of G8s in the state. In a search in AutoTrader, 50 miles from my zip (Central CT), I return 9 results.

Out of those 9, 7 are in the state of CT. of those 7 in Connecticut, there are only 2 V6 models, which leaves 5 GT models in the state of CT.

Those GT models are priced from $30,145 to $32,745. Which doesn't really look like a mark up at all.

Of course, those 2 V6 models are ~$29K, which I supposed would make them completely optioned up 6 cylinder models.

I don't see any problems with pricing out here in CT, and this is one of the states you would probably expect pretty good mark-up. 300Cs, Mercs, and BMWs are dime-a-dozen here. I see plenty of SRT-8s as well (300s, Chargers and Grand Cherokees all are driving by me all the time)

Oh, and how are they shipping only 777 models in one month when I see non-888 models in my area too? Wouldn't that mean that the first 888 models are already at their respective dealers and other dealerships are now getting their regular production models in?

Not sure if you mean that 5 G8 GT in the whole state of CT is a lot or dreadfully little?!? Not familiar with how AutoTrader shows prices, but the price shown on the Official Pontiac site, when you are shown dealers inventory, shows the sticker price, and the dealers markup is always on a second sticker with the gouge price total. In other words, you are probably seeing only the MSRP/sticker price on those cars, and if the dealers are adding markup, you wont know until you go to their website, or call 'em or go into the store and see for yourself. The 777 G8s delivered in March refers to the G8s sold and registered to their owners. There is no doubt there are more out there, either with markups, or are V6s, or in locations getting LOTS of inventory. But there are also LOTS of dealers that have not gotten any G8s yet. And, as you can read in other threads in this forum, there are quite a few members awaiting G8s that have been tagged for them.:confused:

I meant that 5 GTs in the state of connecticut seems to be better than most other areas of the states.

Since CT is relatively small (third smallest state behind Delaware and RI) I would venture a guess that exposure for the G8 would be better. More dealers in less square miles.

Having a high cost of living would help things along too I would say.

All of those 5 GTs are definitely within my driving range, or at least, the range I would be willing to drive in order to buy a car. Though the dealership just 2 miles from me is convenient, and also a great dealer (it's where I bought my GTP from), I'm not going to hang myself up on only buying a car from them. If I can find a better deal 17-25 miles away, I'll take it.

Oh, and no doubt I can see people here who have tagged vehicles are angry when other dealers in their area have cars sitting on their lots. I'd be buggered about that too.

I believe that AutoTrader is listing the MSRPs. The one V6 model (that's sold now) that was at the dealer down the road was on AutoTrader for the price that the dealer was asking (which was sticker).

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions. Buy what you feel most comfortable spending your own money on. In fairness you could at least quote accurate numbers.

Base G8 GT MSRP=$29,999 < none available yet that I know of.
G8 GT + Premium + sport + sunroof i.e. loaded MSRP=$32,745 was just quoted from a dealer today.

Better priving car be had RIGHT NOW you just have to work for it.

No idea how you get a 35-38K range for a G8 GT.

There is more to cars than pricing. I don't think many people in the market for a G8 are cross shopping 135s, Evos STIs, or Z cars. They are different types of cars. All are smaller without v8s, size, v8, and rear wheel drive are the main draw of the G8 IMHO. You can't touch anything similar at this price point from any other marque.

I like BMWs, I have owned a few. Resale isn't very good once they are out of warranty, they aren't exactly trouble free and build quality is hit or miss. It is easy to over look though because they are a blast to drive anywhere.

As I already said...my local dealer has already priced out their G8's. A v6 base starts at 29X, and the GT starts at 33x with no options. When you start throwing in options, it gets to 35K real quick. Throw in the GXP manual version and it goes up even further and 38 is not out of reality...

People are looking at performance for a price range and that puts all the cars listed in competition. Most are RWD, come manual, have at least 300 hp and can handle. That means a 135 or a 350 are well in the range of the G8. Not everyone is sparkling because it has a V8. I would be just as happy with a 6 that produces the same hp as an 8.

I am not looking for a muscle car, this car got my interest because it's more then muscle, it can actually handle with 50/50 weight, making it a sports car, and it competes with other sports cars, not just muscle cars...so if your thinking only mustangs and hemi's, you might be surprised there are people out there thinking evo's, sti's, and G37 coupe's that may also be looking at a G8...I am one of them...and coming from the RX8 forum, there was alot of interest in this car. Not because of the big block, but because of weight distribution and handling...there is more to life then going fast in a straight line...

As I already said...my local dealer has already priced out their G8's. A v6 base starts at 29X, and the GT starts at 33x with no options. When you start throwing in options, it gets to 35K real quick. Throw in the GXP manual version and it goes up even further and 38 is not out of reality...

OK, so what you are saying is that your local dealer has added a markup to the MSRP? And what GXP exactly are you talking about? The car was introduced at the NYC auto show, but no price, availability, or even a full options list has been released to the public yet. So predicting a $38K price is shear guesswork at best. Probably even wishful thinking at that!:dunno:

IThe one V6 model (that's sold now) that was at the dealer down the road was on AutoTrader for the price that the dealer was asking (which was sticker).

Yeah, but rarely is the price of a V6 at issue, since most of the people that have tagged G8s are waiting for GTs/V8s, and that is where the markups/gouging is mostly taking place.:censored:

is USA the only country that marks up prices?

i know if i want to buy a car, i walk into a dealer, tick the options, out comes a receipt!

if anything, theres more chance of talking a dealer down to make sure they get a sale rather than letting you go to another dealer and possibly getting a better deal.

is USA the only country that marks up prices?

i know if i want to buy a car, i walk into a dealer, tick the options, out comes a receipt!

if anything, theres more chance of talking a dealer down to make sure they get a sale rather than letting you go to another dealer and possibly getting a better deal.

Hey, if you want to run a 2009 GT in 26U with sunroof off the assembly line and ship it out to me I'd be most happy to pay MSRP plus $700 shipping! Markups yeah, that is why CNBC has a very popular series running called American Greed!:angel:

is USA the only country that marks up prices?

i know if i want to buy a car, i walk into a dealer, tick the options, out comes a receipt!

if anything, theres more chance of talking a dealer down to make sure they get a sale rather than letting you go to another dealer and possibly getting a better deal.


The sad part is they can do it because people are willing to pay above the listed MSRP. If nobody was crazy enough to pay above MSRP then they wouldn't do it. A few months down the road you will be able to pick them up discounted.

It's been so long since Pontiac has had a car that is actually worth MSRP, and because the G8 appears to be a fairly priced and attractive package there is some over-reaction going on. In 2004 I bought a new Grand Prix GTP CompG and got $5K off the MSRP. That was without even really beating them up! Ridiculous! Don't misunderstand, not that it is a bad car...just priced wrong, and you only had to look at the competition to verify that. That is why the residuals on Pontiacs are poor. They are heavily discounted on the front end, so they are going to be heavily discounted on the back end.

This shows you how GM management has been out of touch with the market. I have heard it said that much of their management never needs to buy a car, so they never see what it is like to buy from one of their dealers, or work with their service departments. If this is true, it is stupid management. They should experience what their customers experience.

It has taken 20-25 years for Honda, Toyota, BMW, etc. to get to the point where they have loyal customers lining up who won't even look at an American car. They did it through hard work, sticking with their products, gradually making them better and pricing them at a level that reflected the demand.

During the same 20-25 years, GM, Ford and Chrysler stopped listening to their customers, pumped out more product than the market could absorb, priced the products at unrealistic levels, and the results of all of that over time is finally showing up in the fact that these companies are fighting to survive.

The neglect of a generation is not going to be fixed in a year or two. It is going to take a long time, commitment, perseverence, making great cars, pricing them fairly and sticking with the program. I hope they can do it, but past experience has shown that they don't stick with anything long enough for it to pay dividends. :banghead:

It's been so long since Pontiac has had a car that is actually worth MSRP, and because the G8 appears to be a fairly priced and attractive package there is some over-reaction going on. In 2004 I bought a new Grand Prix GTP CompG and got $5K off the MSRP. That was without even really beating them up! Ridiculous! Don't misunderstand, not that it is a bad car...just priced wrong, and you only had to look at the competition to verify that. That is why the residuals on Pontiacs are poor. They are heavily discounted on the front end, so they are going to be heavily discounted on the back end.

This shows you how GM management has been out of touch with the market. I have heard it said that much of their management never needs to buy a car, so they never see what it is like to buy from one of their dealers, or work with their service departments. If this is true, it is stupid management. They should experience what their customers experience.

It has taken 20-25 years for Honda, Toyota, BMW, etc. to get to the point where they have loyal customers lining up who won't even look at an American car. They did it through hard work, sticking with their products, gradually making them better and pricing them at a level that reflected the demand.

During the same 20-25 years, GM, Ford and Chrysler stopped listening to their customers, pumped out more product than the market could absorb, priced the products at unrealistic levels, and the results of all of that over time is finally showing up in the fact that these companies are fighting to survive.

The neglect of a generation is not going to be fixed in a year or two. It is going to take a long time, commitment, perseverence, making great cars, pricing them fairly and sticking with the program. I hope they can do it, but past experience has shown that they don't stick with anything long enough for it to pay dividends. :banghead:

That's a good summary of the OWM (old white men) in charge of the Big Three, but the problem of not being in it for the long haul is inherent and endemic to U.S. public corporations that report earnings on a quarterly basis. The reason some companies get taken private is so they can do what they need to get it together while not being a slave to the Wall Street reporting machine.

Very true. That is why small start-up companies like Toyota can topple giants like GM. Also, how a small grocery store in Arkansas can take down Kmart. In 1985, people would have laughed at that, if they even knew what Wal-mart was. Small companies do what is best, grow large, go public and die in a bueacratic system generated to make money. It has been an endless cycle occuring since the industrial revolution.

So I just got the residuals/programs for the G8... anyone care to guess what a 24mo/12000 mile lease is on a BARE BONES (IE no extra options) G8 GT? Wait for it... wait for it..........






















$567 a month!!


Thats for a GM Employee price LOL WTF is pontiac thinking? That payment is MORE Than my $50,000 CTS! Someone needs to lay off the crack....

I just picked up a GT w/ premium package and 18's (no sunroof) for $463 on a 39mo/39k GMS lease. It's no steal, but it seems on par with other non-GM vehicles in the price range.

I just picked up a GT w/ premium package and 18's (no sunroof) for $463 on a 39mo/39k GMS lease. It's no steal, but it seems on par with other non-GM vehicles in the price range.

I was quoted almost the exact same numbers just last night. Except it is a GT + premium + sport @ GMS. I decided to buy the car for only a few bucks more a month. Dealers will play with the numbers to screw the unknowing. Make them show you how they get to where they do. If they don't, they are hiding something.

Also something you guys may be interested in. I was given an additional $1,000 rebate as part of a GM loyalty program. It was $500 when they quoted the lease. All they needed was a copy of my current DD registration.

I just picked up a GT w/ premium package and 18's (no sunroof) for $463 on a 39mo/39k GMS lease. It's no steal, but it seems on par with other non-GM vehicles in the price range.

39 months? that's your problem right there.:) He only needed the car for about 5-12 months :p, that's why he picked the shortest option available. for any developer, that car will be useless after 2 years period. And as a regular driver I have a hard time driving a car over 3 years too.;)

is USA the only country that marks up prices?

i know if i want to buy a car, i walk into a dealer, tick the options, out comes a receipt!
if anything, theres more chance of talking a dealer down to make sure they get a sale rather than letting you go to another dealer and possibly getting a better deal.

last time i ticked the options for V8 Commodore with leather interior , sunroof, climate control ( had to start with Commodore SS) i ended up with over $50000 AUD
same options car in US cost 29900-32000 US ~ 32700 AUD more than 17000 less
I don't see how you can compare US car market to AU to begin with.

There are no good deals on any lease in the first year of an entirely new model. Why? Simply there is no depreciation history so rather than take a risk GMAC and others take the worst case scenario and that is what you will pay. It is not greed, it is about risk. The fact that dealers want to add to MSRP just makes the situation worse.
Can anyone here predict the value of a G8 in three years? If so would you be willing to bet 5k on it? We also cannot ignore what is going on in the credit markets and the view companies have on risk. The fact is GM will sell every G8 they send over here for the next several months so they do not need to take a risk to do so.

Think about how much GMAC lost on all of those GTO leases that they took a leap on to try and stimulate sales. I bought an 04 in Jan 05 for $25,700 after all of the rebates and discounts. That was within 6k of the residual prediction of an 04 at three years and 45k miles. I loved my GTO and can't wait to buy a G8, actually on second thought I will wait a year and see how things settle in. I think he G8 will do very well and I doubt we will see big discounts, I just want to not see dealer markups when I go shopping.

Think about how much GMAC lost on all of those GTO leases that they took a leap on to try and stimulate sales. I bought an 04 in Jan 05 for $25,700 after all of the rebates and discounts. That was within 6k of the residual prediction of an 04 at three years and 45k miles. I loved my GTO and can't wait to buy a G8, actually on second thought I will wait a year and see how things settle in. I think he G8 will do very well and I doubt we will see big discounts, I just want to not see dealer markups when I go shopping.

My local dealers finally finally finally got a few to show. Two red on black, and one orange on black. The good news is...no markup! Well, one dealer had a $700 "clearcoat paint treatment". But nothing like the kind of stupid markups I have been seeing on this board. :wiggle:

There are no good deals on any lease in the first year of an entirely new model.

I wouldnt go that far, I got a helluva deal on my CTS and they can sell nearly every one they build without an issue. In fact its LESS than a 24 month G8 lease payment ROFL

I wouldnt go that far, I got a helluva deal on my CTS and they can sell nearly every one they build without an issue. In fact its LESS than a 24 month G8 lease payment ROFL

That may be because the CTS has been around awhile, has had a good track record, has a fairly high visibility race program, GM hasn't been dumping them into the fleet market, etc., and the press has been raving about the newest update of the car. So it is a desirable car and the value holds up. On the other hand, the G8...the jury is still out. However, as you point out, if a CTS can be had on a lease for less than a G8, that is not a good thing for Pontiac. :dunno: I'll take a CTS over a G8 all day long.

39 months? that's your problem right there.:) He only needed the car for about 5-12 months :p, that's why he picked the shortest option available. for any developer, that car will be useless after 2 years period. And as a regular driver I have a hard time driving a car over 3 years too.;)
I start boring of a car after about 2 years, but 39 months could mean anywhere from 33 to 39 months really and the price difference is huge from 24.

That may be because the CTS has been around awhile, has had a good track record, has a fairly high visibility race program, GM hasn't been dumping them into the fleet market, etc.,
...
I'll take a CTS over a G8 all day long.

They may not be 'dumping' the CTS into rental fleets,
but I rented one in San Diego last month - and saw
a whole lot of '08s lined up where I picked out mine...

And ( based on over 200 miles in that CTS
and a brief test drive in a G8 GT )
I'd take the G8 GT 'all day long'...

YMMV
- Ray
Seduced by V8 power & TQ...

They may not be 'dumping' the CTS into rental fleets,
but I rented one in San Diego last month - and saw
a whole lot of '08s lined up where I picked out mine...

And ( based on over 200 miles in that CTS
and a brief test drive in a G8 GT )
I'd take the G8 GT 'all day long'...

YMMV
- Ray
Seduced by V8 power & TQ...

Nuff said! Since the last time I posted on this thread I have actually had the good fortune of seeing a G8 live and in person. It took a while for the dealers in my area to get any. Great looking car, the photos don't do it justice.

It seems we were talking about why the G8 lease worked out about the same as a CTS...I did a little further looking and it makes a lot of sense because the base CTS is priced about the same as a G8 GT. Similar MSRP + Similar residual = Similar Payment.

My somewhat sarcastic comment was directed at a possible reason for why the residual on a G8 would not be better, and it may have something to do with GM's past history of flooding Grand Prix, etc into the rental market. Last week I learned about an insurance company that took a $500 million loss on a policy that insured the residual value of Ford Tauruses. With a past history of flooding too much product into the market you can't blame the finance companies for being a little gun shy.

It seems we were talking about why the G8 lease worked out about the same as a CTS...I did a little further looking and it makes a lot of sense because the base CTS is priced about the same as a G8 GT. Similar MSRP + Similar residual = Similar Payment.



Uh no I'm talking about my $50,000 CTS , not a $33,000 G8. The residuals on the CTS kill the G8. I dont think you guys are understanding what i'm saying, why would anyone get a G8 for MORE than a loaded CTS? Doesnt make much sense hence why I have a loaded CTS and I'll get a G8 GXP when gas prices are making them give them away LOL

Again GT Lease $567 or CTS Lease for LESS lol I've said this a few times in this thread but I know everyone skips to the end ;)

Again GXP Lease $567 or CTS Lease for LESS lol

I'm sorry, did I miss something? How do you know what the lease will be on a G8 GXP when the price hasn't even been released yet? Is this just a WAG based on speculation, or do you know something you're not telling us?:huh:

I'm sorry, did I miss something? How do you know what the lease will be on a G8 GXP when the price hasn't even been released yet? Is this just a WAG based on speculation, or do you know something you're not telling us?:huh:

Nah just a typo, I have GXP on the brain (should have said GT) and while actually I do know pretty close to ballpark pricing on it I have no idea what the residual will be (hopefully higher).

Again GT Lease $567 or CTS Lease for LESS

Cadillac wants $5500 down to get the payments on a $42k CTS down to $369 a month / 39 months. Or if you add back in the down payment, so total down is nothing, it's around $525 a month.

So, you can lease a new CTS that's costs about $12k more than the G8GT for a bit less per month. Seems like a no brainer if you need to lease.

I'll be hitting the Caddy dealer on my way to the Pontiac dealership before I decide anything. It really depends on what gives me the larger.....grin :gears:

Uh no I'm talking about my $50,000 CTS , not a $33,000 G8. The residuals on the CTS kill the G8. I dont think you guys are understanding what i'm saying, why would anyone get a G8 for MORE than a loaded CTS? Doesnt make much sense hence why I have a loaded CTS and I'll get a G8 GXP when gas prices are making them give them away LOL

Again GT Lease $567 or CTS Lease for LESS lol I've said this a few times in this thread but I know everyone skips to the end ;)

I get it. It has to be based on the fact that the CTS has established a good track record of resale value. The G8 has no track record yet, based on what Pontiac has done with recent models (flooding the rental fleets) the residuals have been poor. It's all math, and very simple, but when a new model is introduced by a brand with an historically poor resale history, why would any leasing company take an unnecessary risk?

Leasing a car is a great way to closely match your monthly cash outlay with the "true" cost of owning a car. Many people kid themselves when they pay cash or pay off a loan and then have no payment and think the car isn't costing anything at that point. It really is because the depreciation continues as long as you own the car.

Like I said before, and felt like I got flamed for it, if the true cost to own a loaded CTS is roughly the same as a G8...show me the way to the Caddy dealer. :boink:

Cadillac wants $5500 down to get the payments on a $42k CTS down to $369 a month / 39 months. Or if you add back in the down payment, so total down is nothing, it's around $525 a month.

So, you can lease a new CTS that's costs about $12k more than the G8GT for a bit less per month. Seems like a no brainer if you need to lease.

I'll be hitting the Caddy dealer on my way to the Pontiac dealership before I decide anything. It really depends on what gives me the larger.....grin :gears:

How many people actually “have to lease”?
And why would they have to?
[ Rhetorical questions, I suppose. . . ]

And the fact that the CTS ‘costs’ $12K more means what, exactly?

These are rather different cars – both 4DR sedans, I’ll admit, but comparing the 6.0L V8 G8 GT with even the DI 304HP CTS, on a performance basis, seems to lean rather heavily toward the G8. I personally admit to a TQ addiction.

Though if the doo-dads & gizmos available, and the available luxury aspects are the priority, the CTS does offer more in that dept.

I know which set of attributes gives ** ME ** the larger grin . . .

Since any ( non-subsidized ) lease rate is set based largely on residual, if you believe that the residuals for the G8 are set lower than they “should be”, right now, then a lease would probably make little sense.

One reason that I do not lease ( not that it is a bad choice for someone else ) is that I can trade \ buy another vehicle whenever I want – without either a ( typically significant ) early out penalty or trying to extend the lease.

I am well aware that the general shape of any car’s depreciation curve means that the longer I keep a car, the slower the monthly depreciation becomes. And that ( consequently ) if I trade at 2 year intervals, I will not be paying \ spending as much as if I trade at 3 or 4 year intervals. [[ correction - obviously I will be paying ** MORE ** if trading more frequently ! ]]

I would absolutely never consider $5,500 “down” on any lease.

I think that if ( for whatever reason ) I did ** HAVE TO ** lease, I’d likely end up at the BMW store. Their business model over the years has evolved to the point where it seems rather skewed toward ‘renting’ most of their products.

YMMV.
- Ray
Buying - if acquiring a G8 GT . . .

Cadillac wants $5500 down to get the payments on a $42k CTS down to $369 a month / 39 months. Or if you add back in the down payment, so total down is nothing, it's around $525 a month.

So, you can lease a new CTS that's costs about $12k more than the G8GT for a bit less per month. Seems like a no brainer if you need to lease.

I'll be hitting the Caddy dealer on my way to the Pontiac dealership before I decide anything. It really depends on what gives me the larger.....grin :gears:

CTS gmemployee 15K lease
$38,290 MSRP
$516 for 24 month 0 down
$493 for 36 month 0 down

2008 Cadillac CTS Sedan 3.6L, 24-month term, Employee: Payments are for 2008 Cadillac CTS Sedan 3.6L with an MSRP of $38,290, a capitalized cost of $34,964 (which includes any/all applicable cap cost reduction) and a residual value of $26,420. Monthly payments total $12,384. Option to purchase at lease end for an amount to be determined at lease signing. GMAC must approve lease. Take delivery by April 30, 2008. Mileage charge of $.20/mile over 30,000 miles. Lessee pays for maintenance, repair and excess wear. Payments may be higher in some states. Not available with other offers.

2008 Cadillac CTS Sedan 3.6L, 36-month term, Employee: Payments are for 2008 Cadillac CTS Sedan 3.6L with an MSRP of $38,290, a capitalized cost of $34,964 (which includes any/all applicable cap cost reduction) and a residual value of $22,591. Monthly payments total $17,748. Option to purchase at lease end for an amount to be determined at lease signing. GMAC must approve lease. Take delivery by April 30, 2008. Mileage charge of $.20/mile over 45,000 miles. Lessee pays for maintenance, repair and excess wear. Payments may be higher in some states. Not available with other offers.

Good points Ray. I've only chose the smartlease for my current car. The Payment was less, and I knew I'd want something different later on. The only reason I "have" to lease (guess I don't really) is that I am wanting another car in 2 years (GXP, Camaro SS, ...who knows). My payments are typically lower on a lease, and I can trade it every 2-3 years without worry about depreciation. I do get board driving the same ol same. My next choice in transportation will make my 20th vehicle in my 18 years of driving, I spoil myself.

I was planning on buying my current 04 DTS after my lease expires, but it's had 2 steering gear assembly sets (in the first 20k) and is in need of another. I had a 01 DTS prior, and never had as many problems as I've had with my 04. Maybe should have kept that one :(

I have a feeling that the GXP or Camaro SS will keep my attention for more than the typical 3 years. I'm planning on purchasing one of those bad boys :gears:

BTW: A friend of mine told me to never put money down on a lease. When financing, put as much down as you can afford.

Doesn't seem like the G8s are moving. I have watched the 3 dealers near my home sitting on numerous vehicles (almost all are GTs) for close to a month now. I pass by each several times a week and they don't appear to have moved any yet. In the case of the dealer nearest my home I know they haven't because I copied down their stock numbers and it has been the same 3 cars (2 GTs and 1 V6) sitting there for the past month. I am in the Detroit metro area so plenty of GM employees that you would think they could move these to but apparently no dice. Any word on initial sales figures?

Doesn't seem like the G8s are moving. I have watched the 3 dealers near my home sitting on numerous vehicles (almost all are GTs) for close to a month now. I pass by each several times a week and they don't appear to have moved any yet. In the case of the dealer nearest my home I know they haven't because I copied down their stock numbers and it has been the same 3 cars (2 GTs and 1 V6) sitting there for the past month. I am in the Detroit metro area so plenty of GM employees that you would think they could move these to but apparently no dice. Any word on initial sales figures?

New car sales, not just trucks are way down for the year, and especially the month of April. When even Toyota posts a decrease in sales for the month, you know its slow!:zzz:

Hmm...here in Metro Detroit (Downriver/Monroe) and they all seemed to move pretty fast... Keep in mind the Economy sucks, especially in MI, throw in rising gas prices...maybe in 6 months there will be a nice juicy rebate....:)

...maybe in 6 months there will be a nice juicy rebate....:)

If sales don't turn around in the next couple of weeks I'll bet you'll see those rebates a lot quicker than 6 months! More like 6 weeks!:thumbsup:

OK, so what you are saying is that your local dealer has added a markup to the MSRP? And what GXP exactly are you talking about? The car was introduced at the NYC auto show, but no price, availability, or even a full options list has been released to the public yet. So predicting a $38K price is shear guesswork at best. Probably even wishful thinking at that!:dunno:

So much for my wishful thinking...

Just got the latest MT and they are listing the new 402 hp 6.2 liter G8 GXP 0-60 in 4.7 and starting price tag of mid 38K...oh yeah, the manual will only come on the GXP...

That puts this car smack in the middle of a price range that more then competes with it...people are going to look at evo's, sti's, 135's, 370's, and a new camero coming out next year with a price coming in cheaper for a manual...

I seen a G8 on the road last week, they look awesome but paying out close to 40K for a manual is a bit pricey for a pontiac when that 135i with only 300 hp is running the same 4.7 sec 0-60.

people are going to look at evo's, sti's, 135's, 370's, and a new camero coming out next year with a price coming in cheaper for a manual...

I think GM is okay on their target market. You forget, this is a 4 door vehicle. Compared to Evos and Stis, which are crap quality inside, this is a luxury car. GM is aimed right at BMW and Mercedes, which it is doing a great job on. None of the cars you've listed are competitors. I think we've shown that the average G8 owner is in their late 20's/early 30's, who probably won't buy what you've listed anyway, as they got it out of their system in the early 20's.

So I just got the residuals/programs for the G8... anyone care to guess what a 24mo/12000 mile lease is on a BARE BONES (IE no extra options) G8 GT? Wait for it... wait for it..........






















$567 a month!!


Thats for a GM Employee price LOL WTF is pontiac thinking? That payment is MORE Than my $50,000 CTS! Someone needs to lay off the crack....
Wow, I BOUGHT my GT (leather seat package, 18" wheels, no sunroof) for $569 a month for 60 months with no money down (GMS + Loyalty discounts).

Wow, I BOUGHT my GT (leather seat package, 18" wheels, no sunroof) for $569 a month for 60 months with no money down (GMS + Loyalty discounts).

My payment is a little north of that, but that's including life/disability, gap insurance, and whatnot.

Wow, I BOUGHT my GT (leather seat package, 18" wheels, no sunroof) for $569 a month for 60 months with no money down (GMS + Loyalty discounts).

You were able to get GMS price? Was there a markup over the MSRP? My local dealer wants $3K over sticker for market asjustment, but I haven't asked about whether they will accept GMS price or not. That's almost a $5K difference in price. I believe the GMS is about $1500 or so below MSRP. Does that sound right?

It all depends on how long you realistically intend on keeping the car. I know for a fact that I am going to want a GXP when it comes out, but that I will probably wait a year to see if they make any changes to the GXP after the first model year. a 2yr lease on a GT right now puts me in perfect position to get a '10 GXP.

So, for those of you that did a 60-month traditional financing... good luck flipping into a GXP in 2 or 3yrs as you will still be upside-down.

For me, a lease made sense since I will probably only keep the car for the 2yrs. Yes, the residual value sucked a big one and yes that caused the payment to be higher than the finance manager & I expected. However, if they are that far off then I can always sell the car at the end of the lease and keep the difference between the ACTUAL value and the RESIDUAL value. For ex: I believe the residual value in 2yrs is around $18k. Let's say that these cars hold their value well (see: 96 Impala SS) and are selling for $22k. Then, I can sell it for $25k, pay off the lease and pocket the additional $4k. Or, the value sucks just as bad as GM thinks it will and I'm out free & clear and into a GXP in 2 years.

It is a win-win either way in my case. Who knows, maybe I'll keep the car at the end of the lease as a D/D AND get a GXP. I guess that depends on if I'm still as enamored as I am now :wink2:

Adam

However, if they are that far off then I can always sell the car at the end of the lease and keep the difference between the ACTUAL value and the RESIDUAL value.

Sorry I jumped into this one on the tail end so maybe I've missed something. But how do you SELL a vehicle at the end of a LEASE? Was this on SmartBuy or something similar? I'll read back through the thread to see if I've missed anything, as I probably have. But how do you sell something that you are leasing?

Sorry I jumped into this one on the tail end so maybe I've missed something. But how do you SELL a vehicle at the end of a LEASE? Was this on SmartBuy or something similar? I'll read back through the thread to see if I've missed anything, as I probably have. But how do you sell something that you are leasing?

At the end of a lease if you come up with the residual, you can buy the vehicle (pay cash, finance, etc.). If you facilitate the sale to someone else, that is the same thing (and you can pocket the difference, if any, between the sale price and the residual).

OK, that clears it up. Seems like that defeats the purpose of leasing in the first place but I suppose if you come out ahead. It just seems that someone who has the financial means to purchase the vehicle at the end of the 2 year lease could have saved the trouble by purchasing or financing the vehicle for those 2 years and then trading it in or selling it. I'd be curious to see how much money someone actually spends on a 2 year lease and purchasing it at the end of 2 years versus someone who finances at a reasonable rate for the same 2 years.

My lease % is 6%. Technically you are only paying for your "use" plus the interest. So, it should work out to be pretty equal at the end of the day.

For example:
Car is worth 32k new
Valued at 18k in 2 yrs
I am paying $14k @ 6% over 2yrs.

That is basically how it works, so, if I decided to keep it I wouldn't really be paying anything more than buying as new ...unless there is some promo APR available as new, or you pay cash.

Realistically, a lease is designed for not keeping the car... but you certainly aren't penalized for keeping it.

Adam

As of August '08 leasing seems to be almost impossible on a G8...many leasing companies won't lease a V8 at the moment due to the media induced panic in the markets...... a lease runs a good bit more than a purchase on a G8 GT presently..... leasing is nice as you can walk away at term end and the monthly cost used to a bit less than buying so you could ride more car for the buck...that is in flux now! Grrrrr..... just when Gm need to attract every buyer possible the finance game get complex

yeah payment on my G8 is definitely less then that

... but you certainly aren't penalized for keeping it.

What about paying sales tax twice? Once at lease inception and again at buyout after the lease term. It can vary from place to place.

What about paying sales tax twice? Once at lease inception and again at buyout after the lease term. It can vary from place to place.

You only pay tax on the part you use every month throughout the lease term. Then, if you choose to buy it after your lease is over, you only pay tax on the residual, or the balance of the value of the vehicle. So even though you pay sales tax multiple times, you only pay tax on the total once.

You only pay tax on the part you use every month throughout the lease term. Then, if you choose to buy it after your lease is over, you only pay tax on the residual, or the balance of the value of the vehicle. So even though you pay sales tax multiple times, you only pay tax on the total once.

You pay sales tax on the sale price of the car when you lease it. The bank/finance company buys the car (you pay the tax) and rents it to you and the .gov gets their sales tax, you think the bank is going to pay it or the .gov is going to wave the tax?

Then at the end of the lease you pay sales tax on whatever the sale price is from the bank to you.

You pay twice if you keep the car.

It all depends on how long you realistically intend on keeping the car. I know for a fact that I am going to want a GXP when it comes out, but that I will probably wait a year to see if they make any changes to the GXP after the first model year. a 2yr lease on a GT right now puts me in perfect position to get a '10 GXP.

So, for those of you that did a 60-month traditional financing... good luck flipping into a GXP in 2 or 3yrs as you will still be upside-down.

For me, a lease made sense since I will probably only keep the car for the 2yrs. Yes, the residual value sucked a big one and yes that caused the payment to be higher than the finance manager & I expected. However, if they are that far off then I can always sell the car at the end of the lease and keep the difference between the ACTUAL value and the RESIDUAL value. For ex: I believe the residual value in 2yrs is around $18k. Let's say that these cars hold their value well (see: 96 Impala SS) and are selling for $22k. Then, I can sell it for $25k, pay off the lease and pocket the additional $4k. Or, the value sucks just as bad as GM thinks it will and I'm out free & clear and into a GXP in 2 years.

It is a win-win either way in my case. Who knows, maybe I'll keep the car at the end of the lease as a D/D AND get a GXP. I guess that depends on if I'm still as enamored as I am now :wink2:

Adam

Unfortunately you're a bit off on the residual value. Right now 08 GT's with 9 to 15k miles on them are going through the chutes for 18 to 19k. in another year they will be closer to 15k or less if the miles arent right.

Unfortunately you're a bit off on the residual value. Right now 08 GT's with 9 to 15k miles on them are going through the chutes for 18 to 19k. in another year they will be closer to 15k or less if the miles arent right.

Hmmmm, interesting statement. Wonder where you got it from? Just got off VEHIX.com with a search for '08 G8s and found some interesting results. For my area, Western Washington State, of the six G8s listed, the GTs ranged from $21,994 to 22,994 and mileage ranged from 12.8K to 15.9K. For the three base sedans listed price was from $20,914 to 24,990 and mileage ranged from 13.2K to 15.9k. The search was for a 300 mile radius around my location zip code which is 40 miles south of Seattle. So it encompassed an area roughly from the Portland, OR suburbs to the Canadian border and from the Pacific Ocean to nearly Spokane, WA. Nothing in that whole area listed in VEHIX in the way of a G8 GT for anywhere near $18K to $19K, and all had over 12k miles on them. So I'd say, at least for my area, a more fair estimate of price for an used '08 G8 GT would be more in the range of $21K to $24K with 12-15k in miles on it. Just thought it might be a point of interest.:pir_flag:

Hmmmm, interesting statement. Wonder where you got it from? Just got off VEHIX.com with a search for '08 G8s and found some interesting results. For my area, Western Washington State, of the six G8s listed, the GTs ranged from $21,994 to 22,994 and mileage ranged from 12.8K to 15.9K. For the three base sedans listed price was from $20,914 to 24,990 and mileage ranged from 13.2K to 15.9k. The search was for a 300 mile radius around my location zip code which is 40 miles south of Seattle. So it encompassed an area roughly from the Portland, OR suburbs to the Canadian border and from the Pacific Ocean to nearly Spokane, WA. Nothing in that whole area listed in VEHIX in the way of a G8 GT for anywhere near $18K to $19K, and all had over 12k miles on them. So I'd say, at least for my area, a more fair estimate of price for an used '08 G8 GT would be more in the range of $21K to $24K with 12-15k in miles on it. Just thought it might be a point of interest.:pir_flag:

I am in the wholesale business and right now in the Michigan area G8 GT's are going for $18,000 to $20,000 through the auction blocks. That would make that same car $21,000 to $23,500 at your local dealer. I do not think this is a reflection on the overall value of this car it is just that the economy is really bad right now as everyone knows.

I am in the wholesale business and right now in the Michigan area G8 GT's are going for $18,000 to $20,000 through the auction blocks. That would make that same car $21,000 to $23,500 at your local dealer. I do not think this is a reflection on the overall value of this car it is just that the economy is really bad right now as everyone knows.

So they can be had for $18-19K if you are a wholesaler in Michigan, which I doubt very many of us are. And you would concede that for most of us, the retail range would be from the high $21k range to around $24k, depending on condition and mileage, and that would be for an '08. That sound like a fair assessment?:huh::)

You pay sales tax on the sale price of the car when you lease it. The bank/finance company buys the car (you pay the tax) and rents it to you and the .gov gets their sales tax, you think the bank is going to pay it or the .gov is going to wave the tax?

Then at the end of the lease you pay sales tax on whatever the sale price is from the bank to you.

You pay twice if you keep the car.

No, you don't, sorry. :)

And now we have a 280+ day supply of G8's... go figure.

And now we have a 280+ day supply of G8's... go figure.

4924 listed on gminventory.com. Probably a good reason for Holden to cut production. But then yesterday on CNBC they were showing HUGE holding lots of Asian cars in Long Beach, CA. Guess the USA manufacturers aren't the only ones hurting! In fact, yesterday Nissan/Renaults CEO Ghosen was saying it isn't just the USA, that world car sales are hurting and that the foreign dealers are seeking help from their governments also.