Yup, its on the dyno right now I'll post up full results and sheet in a little bit :) Here are some pics to tide you over in the mean time :D

http://www.g8board.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=514&stc=1&d=1205853595
http://www.g8board.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=515&stc=1&d=1205853622

The car must not be that quiet if you need ear phones. :-)

The car must not be that quiet if you need ear phones. :-)

It's still pretty loud WOT at 140 in 4th :)

Regular or premium factory tune?

Regular or premium factory tune?

It looks like it would be relatively happy on 87-89, its VERY VERY FAT stock (think 10.X:1) although it DOES have a bit higher timing than the files we were working on before the cars were in production.

The man is at work....... get'em!


I'm gonna call 315/310 un-tuned (their dyno is stingy)

The man is at work....... get'em!


I'm gonna call 315/310 un-tuned (their dyno is stingy)


Untuned closer to 290 is my guess.

Putting my money on 306 baseline :p

Untuned closer to 290 is my guess.

+1 :)

Any updates? I say 310 stock.

Hasn't one already been dynoed at 320+?

Hasn't one already been dynoed at 320+?

dynapak vs mustang dyno, VMS is gonna read lower.

Sorry, I don't know anything about the differences.

Ok verdict is in, while the production file is a smidgen different than the other one we were working with (FP is back to normal production stuff and a smidge more timing) the results were pretty much the same :)

Peak to peak stock was
304.8 HP and 315.3 Ft/lbs at the tires on our Mustang Dyno

Tuned Peak to Peak was
335.1 HP and 348 ft/lbs at the tires

Whats hard to see from the graphs is the under the curve area is pretty crazy its up 40 ft/lbs in some areas! We tried to do a before/after 1/4 run but after the tune it made so much more torque that it wheel hopped violently and we couldnt make a full pass. I believe the before run was 14.1 ish but i'll have to check.

I'll have some pics/graphs and other info on stuff we tested up shortly :)

So 30hp gain. Sounds pretty good to me. I think DY had inside info.

Okie dokie, here is the graph. Keep in mind this is on 93 octane winter blend so we'll see a few more ponies when we get some good gas back here.

I hope to have a point by point comparison done in awhile to REALLY see the gains in certain areas. Also its interesting to note due to our software we are able to adjust the actual TM not just turn it on and off so the shift schedule on this car now really rocks!

It's nice to finally have this verified and 100% completed I just looked and our first G8 file is dated back to August 2007!

http://www.g8board.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=518&stc=1&d=1205869264

BTW this tune is on sale via our website and we'll have fuel economy increase # as soon as our beta tester returns home from his 300+ mile journey here :)

Is there a reason that the graph starts at 3000rpm?

Yeah thats just where the pulls were started, anything below 3000 the converter wanted to flash up to that area anyhow plus those two were the easiest to compare as far as powerbands go :)

so 30+ to the wheels....! sign me up!!
could you explain more about what its doing for the shifting?

Cheers

Also, This is a fresh motor too. I bet it probably hasn't even passed it's 500 mile break-in, let alone the 5k - 6k mark where LSx motors really "loosen up".

so 30+ to the wheels....! sign me up!!
could you explain more about what its doing for the shifting?

Cheers

Tune is for sale on our website :) Shifting wise it just keeps the TCM from pulling so much timing between shifts which results in higher, firmer more precise shifts.

Also, This is a fresh motor too. I bet it probably hasn't even passed it's 500 mile break-in, let alone the 5k - 6k mark where LSx motors really "loosen up".

This particular G8 had just over 300 miles on it (basically the drive from his location to ours!) so yes its not even really broken in plus it had winter blend 93 in it.

Also of note, the intake is pretty restrictive on this but the MAF is VERY sensative much like the TBSS. After we were done with the full tune we threw together a "ghetto CAI" using 3.5 tubing and a 4" filter. the car picked up 6 RWHP instantly even though it richend up a FULL A/F point! So intakes will likely require a special tune but we'll save that judgement for when we finish our 4" system (if anyone in metro detroit wants to be a mule for a great deal let me know!). I'd say an intake with the proper tune should be worth 10+ at the tires on this car but MAN does it need an exhaust!

Also of note, the intake is pretty restrictive on this but the MAF is VERY sensative much like the TBSS. After we were done with the full tune we threw together a "ghetto CAI" using 3.5 tubing and a 4" filter. the car picked up 6 RWHP instantly even though it richend up a FULL A/F point! So intakes will likely require a special tune but we'll save that judgement for when we finish our 4" system (if anyone in metro detroit wants to be a mule for a great deal let me know!). I'd say an intake with the proper tune should be worth 10+ at the tires on this car but MAN does it need an exhaust!

Does it need an exhaust because the stock one is extremely restrictive or because it is to quiet?

Does it need an exhaust because the stock one is extremely restrictive or because it is to quiet?


It is both. It's very quiet, and very restrictive. I'm anxiously waiting for Corsa to come out with one for these. These are very strong numbers for just a tune. I've been up in the air about going GT or GXP. But I'll tell you, for much less money, I can do a GT, with a CAI, Underdrive pulley, Cat-back, and tune, and probably be very happy. 12's with a good launch, and fairly decent mpg with the active fuel management. Hmmm.

Forgot to ask. Vector, did you guys make any adjustments to the active fuel management? Idealy I'd like to be able to do bolt-ons and leave the AFM alone. MPG isn't a "primary" concern, but getting a few extra mpg's would be nice. Thanks!

Forgot to ask. Vector, did you guys make any adjustments to the active fuel management? Idealy I'd like to be able to do bolt-ons and leave the AFM alone. MPG isn't a "primary" concern, but getting a few extra mpg's would be nice. Thanks!

Sure did, waiting on a final report from the driver as to how well it worked I'd guess a 2+ MPG improvement on 93 just from past experience. But you are correct the stock exhaust is VERY restrictive!

Sure did, waiting on a final report from the driver as to how well it worked I'd guess a 2+ MPG improvement on 93 just from past experience. But you are correct the stock exhaust is VERY restrictive!

Wow, cool! I look forward to hearing the results! :)

Not surprised by the numbers or the results.

Way to go VMS!

Does the adjustment in the TM change any of the "sport" shifts? Or just the standard shifts? Also what do you think the redline would/could be bumped up to with a new intake/exhaust?

Not surprised by the numbers or the results.

Way to go VMS!

Does the adjustment in the TM change any of the "sport" shifts? Or just the standard shifts? Also what do you think the redline would/could be bumped up to with a new intake/exhaust?

It can be customized any way you like, the sport can be fimer than the normal or even the TUTD mode can be firmer still. The options are endless :) We did bump the rev limiter up 200 RPM and it was pulling relatively close to it.

awesome #'s chris

Survey Says:

19.2MPG on the 300 mile journey in
22.2MPG on the 300 mile journey back

Yes it's true...you get more horsepower and better gas mileage. Gotta love computers!

Thanks to Vector Motorsports for the day! Kirk and Chris were both outstanding and really know what these things can do.

Mike

Nice job Kirk! Seeing that dyno always brings back memories of the old shop.

Mark

What software are the tunes done with and are they locked when tuned? Nice results for sure, especially with the 3mpg increase!

Okie dokie, here is the graph. Keep in mind this is on 93 octane winter blend so we'll see a few more ponies when we get some good gas back here.

I hope to have a point by point comparison done in awhile to REALLY see the gains in certain areas. Also its interesting to note due to our software we are able to adjust the actual TM not just turn it on and off so the shift schedule on this car now really rocks!

It's nice to finally have this verified and 100% completed I just looked and our first G8 file is dated back to August 2007!

http://www.g8board.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=518&stc=1&d=1205869264

Well I know where I am going after I get my G8 later next year! I live in Jackson, so if you are located in Clinton, that is less than 45mins away!

Great numbers Chris :thumbsup:

Damn, a 30hp jump. So basically this confirms what most people have been saying, with a 93 octane tune it has brought the numbers back up to what a stock LS2 05/06 GTO would be, right around 400 at the crank.

Would it be reasonable to say that with a tune, exhaust and intake that the rwhp numbers could increase to 50+ over baseline?

Wow. Great gains on just a tune. These G8 GTs could be giving the GTOs a run...

If my assumptions and calculations are right, that's about 425lb-ft of torque. Goodbye, SRT-8s.

Chris this was with a 93 octane gas right?

I'm having a hard time figuring out where the added power came from because I understand that power/fuel economy is a compromise. Is this mostly due to tuning it to 93? Would you be able to give it more power and better fuel economy on 87 pump gas or would you only be able to give it more of one at the expense of the other?

The power is coming from a "leaner" A/F Ratio he said it was Fat Stock, to help with Emissions, etc. I'm sure he threw some more timing in along the way to go with the Winter Blend 93 octane.

Figures are pretty similar to what the guys are getting down here in Oz.

Great Work BTW!

Well I know where I am going after I get my G8 later next year! I live in Jackson, so if you are located in Clinton, that is less than 45mins away!

He's in Clinton Township, MI. Which is just north of Warren, MI.
It will still be worth the drive.:driving:

93 octane gas is more resistant to detonation than 87 octane gas. Since 87 is more susceptible, GM decided to fatten her up by adding more fuel to the air/fuel mixture. So, in turn, we end up burning more cheaper gas.

I did a cost analysis (sorry, part of what I do for a living) based on $0.22 diff in price between 87 octane and 93 octane. And on an average 18 gallon fill-up, the added cost to go premium is $3.96. But considering you get an extra 54 miles on the tank (3MPG*18gal), you'd have to spend an extra $9.56 per tank (at $3.40/gal) of 87 at 19.2MPG to drive the same distance. So really, you're saving $5.60 per tank by getting the tune and extra 3MPG running 93.

I know, probably sounds fishy. Look at it another way...

If 87 octane is $3.40 and I get 19.2MPG, an 18 gallon fill should get me 345.5 miles and cost $61.20. That's $0.177 per mile.

If 93 octane is $3.62 and I get 22.2MPG, an 18 gallon fill should get me 399.6 miles and cost 65.16. That's $0.163 per mile.

Please check my math and let me know if I've messed anything up. I don't want to mislead anyone.

Also, as gas gets more expensive, as long as the difference between 87 and 93 doesn't change, it actually gets cheaper for us to run 93 with the tune.

Mike

I find this amazing. What a great way to add HP and even get better economy to boot! Great job.
Okay, now what issues could we have with the dealership or warranty work? Will they even know?

I find this amazing. What a great way to add HP and even get better economy to boot! Great job.
Okay, now what issues could we have with the dealership or warranty work? Will they even know?

Nope thats the best part! :D

I have a VMS tuned 2006 TBSS, of which I have experienced an increase in MPG and driveability. I am already looking forward to the G8 and the performance one can get out of it without major engine mods.
Thanks again Vector for making my wife grip to me about "modding another car".

Nope thats the best part! :D

ok . thats huge.! Now why wont they know?? Im assuming this means it is locked then??

So from what im reading:
exhaust: $1000,
tune: $395,
CAI: $400.........

50RWHP for under $1800...??

This look about right??

Seems much more restricted than the goats were. I like the options we have... frigne awesome.
Thanks VMS.

So knowing all this, it makes it hard for me to justify waiting for and paying for the GXP. I can get the same horsepower for so much less AND get a lot better fuel economy at the same time. That leaves the manual tranny as the only reason to get a GXP as far as my personal wish list.

So knowing all this, it makes it hard for me to justify waiting for and paying for the GXP. I can get the same horsepower for so much less AND get a lot better fuel economy at the same time. That leaves the manual tranny as the only reason to get a GXP as far as my personal wish list.

I agree, 6sp manual and the upgrade to Brembo brakes.

Pretty close to 15% rule of thumb baseline rwhp = enghp - 15.57%. Old argument from another site: so if rwhp is up 30, is the engine now 391 or is it 397. (my answer: 391, parasitic losses are constant per vehicle and do not rise with hp output)

yevot, closer to 418 if you add the raw 33 lb-ft bump. But exactly 425 if you use percentage drivetrain loss.


Chris: what about a Corvette exhaust butterfly valve in the mix. Would this be an alternative for extra hp at WOT but quiet when cruisin' past the local constabulatory? (good for 6 raw engine, don't know the cost)

But I'll tell you, for much less money, I can do a GT, with a CAI, Underdrive pulley, Cat-back, and tune, and probably be very happy. 12's with a good launch, and fairly decent mpg with the active fuel management. Hmmm.

throw in a 3.70 rear diff and it would fly

93 octane gas is more resistant to detonation than 87 octane gas. Since 87 is more susceptible, GM decided to fatten her up by adding more fuel to the air/fuel mixture. So, in turn, we end up burning more cheaper gas.

I did a cost analysis (sorry, part of what I do for a living) based on $0.22 diff in price between 87 octane and 93 octane. And on an average 18 gallon fill-up, the added cost to go premium is $3.96. But considering you get an extra 54 miles on the tank (3MPG*18gal), you'd have to spend an extra $9.56 per tank (at $3.40/gal) of 87 at 19.2MPG to drive the same distance. So really, you're saving $5.60 per tank by getting the tune and extra 3MPG running 93.

I know, probably sounds fishy. Look at it another way...

If 87 octane is $3.40 and I get 19.2MPG, an 18 gallon fill should get me 345.5 miles and cost $61.20. That's $0.177 per mile.

If 93 octane is $3.62 and I get 22.2MPG, an 18 gallon fill should get me 399.6 miles and cost 65.16. That's $0.163 per mile.

Please check my math and let me know if I've messed anything up. I don't want to mislead anyone.

Also, as gas gets more expensive, as long as the difference between 87 and 93 doesn't change, it actually gets cheaper for us to run 93 with the tune.

Mike


* This officially should go into the posting Hall Of Fame! I was already going to get the tune, but now my wife (who is an accountant / internal auditor) cannot say "no". After I read your post, I'm like, my wife is going love the numbers breakdown.

Thank you!

:hail:

LOL...anything I can do to help. It's all about ROI in my world. Spend the $350 on the tune now, and make it back at the pump in about 62 visits. For me, that's not even 9 months. Heck, you'll be making money by getting the tune! :D

OK...maybe I took it too far. Hehehe.

Mike

I went through a similar calculation for my boss last week......he's looking to get a 07 GP GT (supercharged 3800, L32 motor) and he was wondering if he could run 87 octane in it versus 93. After doing the math, he saved money in fueling the car with 93 since he'd get 2-3mpg more for $.30/gallon more. Plus he gets better performance which is always nice.

Great to hear.....30whp, incredible! I'm trying to talk my wife into get a G8 GT. Intake, Exhaust, tune.....425hp sounds possible.

I did a cost analysis (sorry, part of what I do for a living) based on $0.22 diff in price between 87 octane and 93 octane.
Mike
Sounds like you just helped everyone. No appologies necessary. I guess I should get the GTO tuned. :shiner:

I find this amazing. What a great way to add HP and even get better economy to boot! Great job.
Okay, now what issues could we have with the dealership or warranty work? Will they even know?

Most dealerships won't know. Probably the only thing that would get fouled up at the dealer is if they short circuited something & it fried the computer. Then, they would have to replace it with a new one with a factory tune. That would suck. :bomb:

Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but a 3 mpg improvement is just a dream, it will never happen in the real world. I would be very surprised to see 1 mpg, much less 2 mpg of improvement from a tune, and using 91 vs. 87.

Does anyone really believe that the engineers left anything on the table? I mean, come on people - GM needs every mpg it can scrounge up, it's not going to hide efficiency in the tune. Makes absolutely no sense.

Regarding the manufacturer "richening up" the tune....maybe they will pull timing, but running anything other than stoich is not intelligent. Things clog up, parts break down more quickly, more emmissions...no reason to run anything other than 14.7:1 A/F.

Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but a 3 mpg improvement is just a dream, it will never happen in the real world. I would be very surprised to see 1 mpg, much less 2 mpg of improvement from a tune, and using 91 vs. 87.

Does anyone really believe that the engineers left anything on the table? I mean, come on people - GM needs every mpg it can scrounge up, it's not going to hide efficiency in the tune. Makes absolutely no sense.

Regarding the manufacturer "richening up" the tune....maybe they will pull timing, but running anything other than stoich is not intelligent. Things clog up, parts break down more quickly, more emmissions...no reason to run anything other than 14.7:1 A/F.

Well thats straight from the end user, in the real world on his trip home from our location. So if he tells us 3MPG then thats what it is :) Nearly ALL of our tunes increase mileage and we have hundreds of TBSS tunes in the field and nearly all report a 2MPG increase.

You'd be suprised how much some strategically placed timing can help when using fuel thats rated considerably higher than the car was originally tuned for. No need to lean it out :)

Those are real good numbers especially from a mustang dyno and being completely stock ! These things are gonna be making some pretty descent power with just bolt ons !

no reason to run anything other than 14.7:1 A/F

I dont believe any car on the road today runs at stoichiometric or ever will. Most high performance cars run a tune around 12.8 which most tuners consider ideal for NA cars.

Does anyone really believe that the engineers left anything on the table?
Absolutely, for example on a 2003 Cobra I had(no flaming, lol), factory tune had an a/f ratio that nose dived in the higher rpm range. Why, built in safety factor. If they didnt leave anything on the table, they would come with better exhausts, u/d pulley and anything else that added up to extra free ponies.

I hear you Sandog. This is only 1 tune of the hopefully many to come for the G8 community. I'm sure each car will yield slightly different results and maybe over time (after break in and all) this number will change.

Here was my testing methodology:

I got home from the dealership, pulled into the driveway. Got my stuff and my son, reset the MPG calc, and took off. Stopped for food, stopped at the hotel, drove about 330 miles, mostly highway, and when I pulled in to VMS, the computer said 19.2MPG.

Pulled the car out of VMS, reset the MPG, and headed back home. Got lost trying to get back onto I-94, drove around a little bit, got lost again when I missed the M-14 exit, turned around, stopped for food, pulled into the driveway after about another 330 miles, again mostly highway, and when I stopped, the computer said 22.2MPG.

I have no affiliation with VMS, Kirk or Chris, but after meeting them both for the first time, I have a lot of respect for them and offered up my own personal real world results for them to use to promote their product. If I had gotten home and it said 20.2MPG, I can promise you that those would've been the numbers that I posted.

Maybe things will change over time. Who knows. I'm sure that many who get a tune will post their personal results and we can take an average over time to get a more round number. That's about all we can ask for.

Mike

I don't doubt you drob8. This car's got a lot in it. One question though. No oil changes?

I'm more than willing to be wrong on this, - as a matter of fact, I would LOVE to be wrong. It just doesn't make sense that GM would leave 3 MPG on the table, does it? I mean, really.

Regarding testing...I would be more careful with the variables when doing comparison. Firstly, I would not trust a computer. I would go from fill-up to fill-up, using the gallon quantity on the pump readout, get same brand of gas, and do the exact type of driving on both tanks.

Like I said, I am more than willing to be wrong on this - I hope I am. :patriot:

I'm more than willing to be wrong on this, - as a matter of fact, I would LOVE to be wrong. It just doesn't make sense that GM would leave 3 MPG on the table, does it? I mean, really.

Regarding testing...I would be more careful with the variables when doing comparison. Firstly, I would not trust a computer. I would go from fill-up to fill-up, using the gallon quantity on the pump readout, get same brand of gas, and do the exact type of driving on both tanks.

Like I said, I am more than willing to be wrong on this - I hope I am. :patriot:

Aren't gasoline pumps mostly computers now? I will never know my true gas milage! :confused: JK

Another fine product from VMS.
My car was on their Mustang dyno, but it was pointed in the wrong direction.
My '05 G6 GT was the mule car for their 05 G6 tune.
Most of my driving has been interstate and my 6 is averaging around 31. Much better than the rest of the G6 crowd.
When I get my G8, I'll be up North for a tune.

BTW...I love that avatar Sandog!

Regarding the testing, I didn't specifically say it, but that was the point of some of the details was to point out that this wasn't a controlled test. But to be honest, if it were a controlled test environment, then it would've be very real world. I'm very interested in hearing what the next few guys have to say after their tunes. I'm hoping you're wrong too. :D

I was thinking about that too Red...do you think I need an early oil change after 800 miles and a rough day on the dyno? I know there used to be an old school rule of thumb with the 500 mile break-in and oil change, but not sure if that was still applicable today. Any opinions?

Mike

People have different opinions on oil changes, mine is that the first couple are the most important. Change it early, keep using dino (for the first couple of changes) and a Quality filter, it's cheap insurance. My $.02

Not sure if our dyno's in Oz read different, our figures seem to be lower than the US...

My VE SSV with -
Pacemaker 4 into 1 - 1 3/4 headers
4" hi flow cats
3" twin stainless catback exhaust
CAI Pod Filter
Maf Tune
Made 321.1 rwhp

With the addition of a comp cam, valve springs, sr timing chain, 25% underdrive pulley etc and retune (maf in place) made 392.2rwhp....

I had their tune in my Trailblazer SS and all I can say is wow. I never expected such a dramatic change from the computer. Money well spent!!

Some advice from Oil and its tolerances. Oil is processed and then additives are used to blend it into different motor oils.

Different companys use different amounts of the additives and the oil changes with the area and type of driving you do.

So if you are in an area with alot of crap in the air the oil AND filter will be more dirty than that of someone who lives in the city. Thus needing to be changed more frequently.

The job of the oil company is to sell you MORE oil. Because of the prices and profits. Typical cars need oil changed every 5k some people recommend 3k but this vary's on the car and area you are driving.

To keep the oil clean we use a oil filter. You techically could get away with muliple changes of just the oil filter and keep the same oil you have in your car for 15k miles. BUT oil does breakdown and those additives soon will not fill the micro imperfections within the engine.

All engines are run AND flushed from the factory with fresh oil.

So IMO to answer your question about changing the oil after those few days of driving is foolish. But if you want to ease your mind go buy some purple power or something. The only pocket book your worried about is your own.

Here was my testing methodology:

I got home from the dealership, pulled into the driveway. Got my stuff and my son, reset the MPG calc, and took off. Stopped for food, stopped at the hotel, drove about 330 miles, mostly highway, and when I pulled in to VMS, the computer said 19.2MPG.

Pulled the car out of VMS, reset the MPG, and headed back home. Got lost trying to get back onto I-94, drove around a little bit, got lost again when I missed the M-14 exit, turned around, stopped for food, pulled into the driveway after about another 330 miles, again mostly highway, and when I stopped, the computer said 22.2MPG.

Mike

The computer estimate of fuel economy is just that; an estimate. The previously mentioned method of filling up the tank, then dividing trip odometer mileage by gallons pumped to fill the tank is more accurate. My GTOs computer claims about 1 mpg less than what I record. I don't doubt that fuel economy rose, but you could be getting better mileage (or worse) by not taking the computer's word.

Sure did, waiting on a final report from the driver as to how well it worked I'd guess a 2+ MPG improvement on 93 just from past experience. But you are correct the stock exhaust is VERY restrictive!

OK please excuse a stupid question from a guy that plays with cars that don't have computers. You've just increased the fuel economy and increased power output. Why does GM not tune it this way? What's the downside of your tune?

OK please excuse a stupid question from a guy that plays with cars that don't have computers. You've just increased the fuel economy and increased power output. Why does GM not tune it this way? What's the downside of your tune?

Good question. I'd like to think that every MPG would help GM during all of this CAFE uproar. Lutz says that the Holden Coupe 60 concept is "not likely" to be produced because of CAFE.

The tune probably leaned the car out a bit. Lean tunes create higher combustion temperatures, and higher NO2 levels. Same thing happened with the RX8, those things were super rich from the factory to combat NO2 emissions.

[QUOTE=Mr. Sandog;21016]Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but a 3 mpg improvement is just a dream, it will never happen in the real world. I would be very surprised to see 1 mpg, much less 2 mpg of improvement from a tune, and using 91 vs. 87.

Does anyone really believe that the engineers left anything on the table? I mean, come on people - GM needs every mpg it can scrounge up, it's not going to hide efficiency in the tune. Makes absolutely no sense.

[
/QUOTE]

Agreed

I don't understand why people don't feel this could be the case. Let's not forget that GM has to put a tune in the car to handle ANY kind of weather...including 120 degree + death valley temps with the A/C on max. So, being in the more nothern states, where we don't need to combat detonation as much, you can lean of them more (literally lean them out/ add timing). So although GM would like to have the additional MPG, most people don't even know what spark knock sounds like and they would have warranty issues - plus there is no magical tune for all conditions.

BTW, my TBSS picked up MPG with a Vector tune in it (hand calculated).

[QUOTE=Mr. Sandog;21016]Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but a 3 mpg improvement is just a dream, it will never happen in the real world. I would be very surprised to see 1 mpg, much less 2 mpg of improvement from a tune, and using 91 vs. 87.

Does anyone really believe that the engineers left anything on the table? I mean, come on people - GM needs every mpg it can scrounge up, it's not going to hide efficiency in the tune. Makes absolutely no sense.

[
/QUOTE]

Agreed

93 octane gas is more resistant to detonation than 87 octane gas. Since 87 is more susceptible, GM decided to fatten her up by adding more fuel to the air/fuel mixture. So, in turn, we end up burning more cheaper gas.

I did a cost analysis (sorry, part of what I do for a living) based on $0.22 diff in price between 87 octane and 93 octane. And on an average 18 gallon fill-up, the added cost to go premium is $3.96. But considering you get an extra 54 miles on the tank (3MPG*18gal), you'd have to spend an extra $9.56 per tank (at $3.40/gal) of 87 at 19.2MPG to drive the same distance. So really, you're saving $5.60 per tank by getting the tune and extra 3MPG running 93.

I know, probably sounds fishy. Look at it another way...

If 87 octane is $3.40 and I get 19.2MPG, an 18 gallon fill should get me 345.5 miles and cost $61.20. That's $0.177 per mile.

If 93 octane is $3.62 and I get 22.2MPG, an 18 gallon fill should get me 399.6 miles and cost 65.16. That's $0.163 per mile.

Please check my math and let me know if I've messed anything up. I don't want to mislead anyone.

Also, as gas gets more expensive, as long as the difference between 87 and 93 doesn't change, it actually gets cheaper for us to run 93 with the tune.

Mike

I checked your math and you are correct.

87 Octane 93 Octane
Price of Gas Currently $3.06 $3.29
G8 GT Tank Gallon Size 19 19 Difference
Total cost per Fillup $58.14 Total cost per Fillup $62.51 Difference at pump $4.37
Avg MPG per Fillup 19 22 Difference in Avg Miles 3
Total Miles 361 Total Miles 418 Total Miles 57

Cost per Mile 0.161 0.150 0.012


# of fillups @ 12000 Miles a year 33.241 28.708 Just Saved 4.533
Annual Cost per year for Gas 1932.632 1794.545 Just Saved $138.09



Cost of a Tune $400.00 Avg Years to Recoup Cost of a Tune 3


Curious about the MPG.. was the AC on or OFF? on your trips?

you can save about 10-25 percent with no AC!

Thanks for the tip on the oil!

No AC on the trip. I think it was like 40 degrees out. :) Oh, and thanks for checking the numbers.

So what's more important to GM? Better MPG, or being able to say it runs on 87 octane. My thoughts would be MPG personally, but I'll tell you I was a little frustrated when I bought my GTP and found out I had to put premium in it. I'm just greatful I have the extra horsepower now and better gas mileage, be it 3MPG or 1MPG.

Now I can focus on more important things like trying to figure out how to drive a 6-speed automatic. I know...sounds dumb, but the extra gears have really confused my foot and my brain.

Chris...if you're out there...beware, I'm taking notes. You're going to be busy when you come to Chicago. :)

Mike

The tune probably leaned the car out a bit. Lean tunes create higher combustion temperatures, and higher NO2 levels. Same thing happened with the RX8, those things were super rich from the factory to combat NO2 emissions.

Agree with this (although it is NOx). This has always been a delicate balance. Tuners can adjust in a direction that manufacturers can't.

Chip

Vector Motor Sports -Can you deactivate DoD with your tune?

My test drive found that DoD (aka AFM) to create a few vibrations that were not "good vibrations" and would like to deactivate DoD when I get my G8.

Thanks!

I have no idea how badly it will hurt fuel economy, but if you want it done we'll be happy to :)

I have no idea how badly it will hurt fuel economy, but if you want it done we'll be happy to :)

Ah ha! So, someone has been able to deactivate DoD. I figured that if it was controlled by the computer, someone could render it inoperable.

A bit off-topic here, but oil was mentioned above in the context of tuning, so I'll add my 2 cents.

Some more info on oil. First, all oils are manufactured and blended to meet API and ILSAC standards of some kind. These standards dictate the amount of ash residue, detergent additive, lubricating properties, thermal breakdown, flash point, pour point and a host of other parameters. Your manual will tell what the minimum API (for gasoline engines) standard is acceptable for your engine (currently Service SM). For the LS2 and LS3 engines, it must also meet GM Service spec 4718M for "synthetic" oil (which really isn't).

The reason you change oil is because the additives wear out, not the oil. Detergents are added to keep sub-filter size particles in suspension and neutralize acids from combustion of hydrocarbon fuels. Viscosity extenders are added to help maintain a relatively constant lubricating property (thickness - viscosity) over wide temperature ranges from cold winter starts to hot desert highway driving.

Acid is tough on an engine because it etches metal surfaces causing roughing of the surface and increases wear as a result. Hydrocarbon chain molecules contain random sulfur atoms that cannot easily be removed during the refining process. When fuel is burned, these sulfur atoms combine with oxygen as the chain is broken and re-combine as sulfur oxides, SO2, SO3. When the hydrogen atoms on these chains are combined with oxygen they create water H2O as you know. Combining the sulfur oxides SO3 with H2O gives you H2SO4 which is sulfuric acid.

So your crankcase becomes, in effect, a sewer that collects all the crap your engine creates as it runs: metal particles, carbon, acids, etc. You change oil to remove this junk before it contributes to excessive engine wear. This is also the reason for a time limit as well as a mileage limit on oil changes -- acids.

A bit off-topic here, but oil was mentioned above in the context of tuning, so I'll add my 2 cents.

Some more info on oil. First, all oils are manufactured and blended to meet API and ILSAC standards of some kind. These standards dictate the amount of ash residue, detergent additive, lubricating properties, thermal breakdown, flash point, pour point and a host of other parameters. Your manual will tell what the minimum API (for gasoline engines) standard is acceptable for your engine (currently Service SM). For the LS2 and LS3 engines, it must also meet GM Service spec 4718M for "synthetic" oil (which really isn't).

The reason you change oil is because the additives wear out, not the oil. Detergents are added to keep sub-filter size particles in suspension and neutralize acids from combustion of hydrocarbon fuels. Viscosity extenders are added to help maintain a relatively constant lubricating property (thickness - viscosity) over wide temperature ranges from cold winter starts to hot desert highway driving.

Acid is tough on an engine because it etches metal surfaces causing roughing of the surface and increases wear as a result. Hydrocarbon chain molecules contain random sulfur atoms that cannot easily be removed during the refining process. When fuel is burned, these sulfur atoms combine with oxygen as the chain is broken and re-combine as sulfur oxides, SO2, SO3. When the hydrogen atoms on these chains are combined with oxygen they create water H2O as you know. Combining the sulfur oxides SO3 with H2O gives you H2SO4 which is sulfuric acid.

So your crankcase becomes, in effect, a sewer that collects all the crap your engine creates as it runs: metal particles, carbon, acids, etc. You change oil to remove this junk before it contributes to excessive engine wear. This is also the reason for a time limit as well as a mileage limit on oil changes -- acids.

Thanks for the info. I change every 5k, but now I know exactly why.

Hello everyone. first time poster, been reading and dreaming for a while. My question here is... are you tuning the factory computer, or do you need an add on computer or other add on products to be able to have the car tuned?

Hello everyone. first time poster, been reading and dreaming for a while. My question here is... are you tuning the factory computer, or do you need an add on computer or other add on products to be able to have the car tuned?

They are tuning the factory computer. No need for extra comp boxes.

ok, good to know. any guess on the limitations of the factory computer? Any way to load two maps and make it switchable between the two?

Hi all,
This is my first post. Picking up my G8GT in a week. I had a pretty modded 04 GTP Comp G.
How would a VMS tune effect the car's ability to pass emission testing? VA just plugs into the ODB port on my GP and I assume the same is true for a G8.
Ed

It wont affect it, you'll be able to pass both a conventional smog test and a port test without an issue.

Thanks that is good to know. The power gain from the tune sounds great. It also sounds like it is more responsive too. My concern is the sluggishness of the tranny. My GTP was tuned with a DHP Pt and I had the tranny working just the way I liked it. We had to be careful because the GP tranny was the weak link in the system. How well will the G8 tranny hold up to more power and faster shifts and downshifts?

From the VMS website it looks like a shop visit is needed to get tranny mods because the TCM is in the tranny. What can be done, tranny wise, with the PCM tune or is a trip from VA to MI the only way to get rid of the tranny lag problems?

I liked the idea of having two shift styles depending on if it's in the normal mode vs. the sport mode. I'd like to see a tune that is a bit more aggressive than stock in normal, then some firm shifts in the sport mode.

To backup some people here:

I just graduated from a 6.0 liter 2500HD. I have done all of my own HPTuners tuning and can honestly say the 14.7 a/f is a target from the factory. These vehicles measure whats is called Long Term Fuel Trims (LTRIMS) and my truck was off by 12% (too rich). The computer was constantly fighting going from too rich, to too lean. After some work, I "tightened" them up to be within 5% using some Wideband O2 sensors (then switchedback to the stockers). That was back in 2004 and I haven't done anything since. Now I get to upgrade HPTuners and play away on the new G8.

So needless to say, A properly tuned vehicle *WILL* exhibit an increase in mileage. Keep in mind, a computer tune is more than just an increase in HP. A properly tuned TCM/PCM/ECM re-calibrates everything for the area you live in, not the whole damn country as they are at the factory.

From my experience, swapping out intakes and exhuast only gives the illusion of more power and economy (as advertised) if the PCM hasn't been retuned for it. So everyone, get a tune!

i went old school flowmaster 2 chambers in the rear...the car really sounds alot better..
i was afraid of it resonating in the car .but it doens not..
the muffler guy told me to go conservative at first...we both where surpised at what was under the car when we lifted it...
nice mandrel bent pipes..but
2 restrictive looking cats
one huge resonator
followed by 2 glass pack type mufflers
followed by 2 totally huge mufflers in the rear
He did and SRT8 all open exhaust per customer request and it ran horrible...so we went safe until someone comes out with a tried and true cat back
i can tell you...people stop and stare when they hear me at a light

I am looking to get the tune.after you guys get all the beta tune bugs out....
we dont have 93 gas in cali...91 is the best you can get .....total crap...
the auto can handle the power of course...just need to program for quicker shifts...also can you guys program to remove the top end limiter..its govered only to 136....not that i really wana go over that ...but who knows...cali has sum open roads and some M3s that need spanking

i went old school flowmaster 2 chambers in the rear...the car really sounds alot better..
i was afraid of it resonating in the car .but it doens not..
.....
i can tell you...people stop and stare when they hear me at a light

Any way you could record & post a video clip or 2 w/sound?
And pictures of the rear mufflers & tips?
Please?
Thanks,
- Ray
My Corvette - w/flowmasters:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v298/rayainsw/C6%20A6%2007%20MINE/?action=view&current=P11503330to.flv

93 octane gas is more resistant to detonation than 87 octane gas. Since 87 is more susceptible, GM decided to fatten her up by adding more fuel to the air/fuel mixture. So, in turn, we end up burning more cheaper gas.

I did a cost analysis (sorry, part of what I do for a living) based on $0.22 diff in price between 87 octane and 93 octane. And on an average 18 gallon fill-up, the added cost to go premium is $3.96. But considering you get an extra 54 miles on the tank (3MPG*18gal), you'd have to spend an extra $9.56 per tank (at $3.40/gal) of 87 at 19.2MPG to drive the same distance. So really, you're saving $5.60 per tank by getting the tune and extra 3MPG running 93.

I know, probably sounds fishy. Look at it another way...

If 87 octane is $3.40 and I get 19.2MPG, an 18 gallon fill should get me 345.5 miles and cost $61.20. That's $0.177 per mile.

If 93 octane is $3.62 and I get 22.2MPG, an 18 gallon fill should get me 399.6 miles and cost 65.16. That's $0.163 per mile.

Please check my math and let me know if I've messed anything up. I don't want to mislead anyone.

Also, as gas gets more expensive, as long as the difference between 87 and 93 doesn't change, it actually gets cheaper for us to run 93 with the tune.

Mike

Cool analysis. Sort of like investing in an energy star appliance. It pays you in the long run, and you get more hp out of it.

So knowing all this, it makes it hard for me to justify waiting for and paying for the GXP. I can get the same horsepower for so much less AND get a lot better fuel economy at the same time. That leaves the manual tranny as the only reason to get a GXP as far as my personal wish list.

You still have to wonder if a tune for the LS3 would give you similar results. 430hp and better mileage in the gxp...

Does anyone really believe that the engineers left anything on the table? I mean, come on people - GM needs every mpg it can scrounge up, it's not going to hide efficiency in the tune. Makes absolutely no sense.



Americans are stupid, if you tell them they have to run premium, they might not buy the car. Even with the evidence of better mpg, and savings in the long run. I can see it now "premium, wtf I don't want that car. Gas is already to expensive, blah, blah, blah."

Pulled the car out of VMS, reset the MPG, and headed back home. Got lost trying to get back onto I-94, drove around a little bit, got lost again when I missed the M-14 exit, turned around, stopped for food, pulled into the driveway after about another 330 miles, again mostly highway, and when I stopped, the computer said 22.2MPG.

To bad we still don't get a gps :lol:

I can post pics and video clip on my Myspace when my eye heals..i just had surgery on it last night...The overall sound is pretty clean.Deep.not as loud as i thought it would be but im happy for at lteast this month...i didnt wana be the first one to pull off the resonator..and the other mufflers past the resonator.i think it wouldve been TOO loud and vibrated in car like a cammed out BB chevy...i didnt want that for my daily driver..your

Vector..i called you twice i guess it was too late.any how ya ..what can you do ..since im in cali..not only do i want more power and mpg that your product can deliever but what can you do about the tranny? you said theres something else in the tranny u need to see in person and tune? can you not program that throught the ecm ? i dont even know where it is on the car..but i have tools and can follow directions if you have any...

Vector..i called you twice i guess it was too late.any how ya ..what can you do ..since im in cali..not only do i want more power and mpg that your product can deliever but what can you do about the tranny? you said theres something else in the tranny u need to see in person and tune? can you not program that throught the ecm ? i dont even know where it is on the car..but i have tools and can follow directions if you have any...

Hi,
I am the Powertrain calibrator for Vector Motorsports.
We have excellent control over the TCM in the G8. The problem lies in the location of the TCM, it is in the transmission.
We are working on a system where we send you a programming cable so you can load our ECM & TCM calibration. Once done, you send the cable back. This is the only feasible way to make this happen without having the vehicle come to our shop.

Kirk

As Kirk said this is the end result we are working towards, keep an eye on the sponsors sale section this week though in the mean time as we have some things in the works right now.

We are working on a system where we send you a programming cable so you can load our ECM & TCM calibration. Once done, you send the cable back. This is the only feasible way to make this happen without having the vehicle come to our shop.

Kirk

This sounds excellent

So what is the normal way of getting our car tuned by your shop? What do we send you to have the tune done? How long is the car down and does this allow us any additional tunes when mods are added? Glad to see you are on top of this and looking forward to a car to have to work magic on!

Bob

Being On The Left Coast...having A Programmer Sent And Being Able To Download Via Cable Sounds Like A More Feasible Route....than Shipping My Computer To You Since Its My Daily Driver.
Can You Please Contact Me When You Can Send Me A Programmer?
916 873 7752
Joe

How important is it to get a tune specific to your car as opposed to a generic G8 GT tune?

I would be worried about having a problem with the car that has an "aftermarket" ECM tune and then requires a dealer visit. With a Predator Programmer, I could restore the OEM tune before going to the dealer service department for warranty work. This swap-a-ECM situation would mean I would have to take a car with a modified ECM in for service. Just the kind of thing they could use to justify voiding your warranty. Is there any way of getting around this scenario?

I would be worried about having a problem with the car that has an "aftermarket" ECM tune and then requires a dealer visit. With a Predator Programmer, I could restore the OEM tune before going to the dealer service department for warranty work. This swap-a-ECM situation would mean I would have to take a car with a modified ECM in for service. Just the kind of thing they could use to justify voiding your warranty. Is there any way of getting around this scenario?

I don't think they can tell if it's been tuned can they? Unless it's throwing up error codes or something.

According to Vector, a dealer could not see a difference.

How important is it to get a tune specific to your car as opposed to a generic G8 GT tune?

I agree with your concern. I would think every engine is slightly different.

The question lies does the tune affect those slightly different calibrations so much that your results would suffer.

dyno tunes ftw. But the vector tune should hold us over till we start throwing blowers/turbos/cams and headers on the g8s. :)

Yes the tune is invisible at the dealer level however I'm guessing ALL of you guys might like this deal:

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23672#post23672

Limited time only so act now! :)

How important is it to get a tune specific to your car as opposed to a generic G8 GT tune?

With no mods, not so much. If you start changing stuff, I would want it specific to my car.

Vector, or others,

As someone who is new to the whole world of engine tuning, I am curious whether it is worth it to tune the car now, before other aftermarket parts (Cold air intake, exhaust) are generally available, or if it would need to be retuned after these are installed? The 30 whp and 3 mpg is mighty tempting, but I plan to add other parts as well and would prefer not to pay twice.

Vector, or others,

As someone who is new to the whole world of engine tuning, I am curious whether it is worth it to tune the car now, before other aftermarket parts (Cold air intake, exhaust) are generally available, or if it would need to be retuned after these are installed? The 30 whp and 3 mpg is mighty tempting, but I plan to add other parts as well and would prefer not to pay twice.

I'd say it depends on how soon you would get new parts. If you have a piggy bank full of mod money & plan to add parts right after purchase, wait on the tune until you buy the mods. If you are gonna use the car for DD use & will add a new part every few months, it would probably serve you to do it soon after buying the car. Once you get really big mods (headers, high flow catalytic converters, blower/turbo), better get it tuned after those.

Would be nice to add an option of upgrading your tune for a cheaper price. idk, just thinking out loud...

Upgrades like CAI/Gears/Headers ect have been and always will be FREE :)

Tommorrow is pay day...ill be calling you guys (vector) TO see if we can get sumthing for us left coasters :) 30 hp and 3 mpg is good to me

Upgrades like CAI/Gears/Headers ect have been and always will be FREE :)

Wait, so if I tune my stock g8; then add headers and other mods to my car, the re-tune is free? I don't believe that. Please explain.

Wait, so if I tune my stock g8; then add headers and other mods to my car, the re-tune is free? I don't believe that. Please explain.

I think it was sarcasm.

Wait, so if I tune my stock g8; then add headers and other mods to my car, the re-tune is free? I don't believe that. Please explain.

Not sure what else there is to explain, bolt ons such as the ones listed above the retune is free. Heads/Cams/Blowers ect there will be a retune charge for depending on how many changes need to be made but for 99% of you the retunes/upgrades are free.

I would be worried about having a problem with the car that has an "aftermarket" ECM tune and then requires a dealer visit. With a Predator Programmer, I could restore the OEM tune before going to the dealer service department for warranty work. This swap-a-ECM situation would mean I would have to take a car with a modified ECM in for service. Just the kind of thing they could use to justify voiding your warranty. Is there any way of getting around this scenario?

Buy a complete replacement core from them instead of sending yours to them to be tuned, or buy a factory tuned core from them or dealer, install it and send youoriginal off to be tuned - same diff. Then you can take the car to the dealer with the factory tune in place.

I think it was sarcasm.

Not sure what else there is to explain,

I wasn't sure if you were joking. That's pretty good service. I will be in touch when I land an 09.

Excuse my ignorance, but I am new to the computer "tune" also, but can someone tell me where this "core" is located and how hard it is to replace it?

Also, a photo of one would be nice if you can post one.

Thanks in advance!

Buy a complete replacement core from them instead of sending yours to them to be tuned, or buy a factory tuned core from them or dealer, install it and send youoriginal off to be tuned - same diff. Then you can take the car to the dealer with the factory tune in place.

Looks like if you can't take advantage of their "special offer" currently available, you're looking at $950 for everything. Don't get me wrong, it's good that it's available; just not sure it's worth that much to me.

$950? Even at regular price its only $650 with a new ECM ;) Still where exactly can you get 30HP and 3mpg for either price?

I agree, great bang for the buck. Especially when you start slowly making that money back from day 1.

A tune is the way to go, really woke up my Z06. I will be wanting one for the G8 after I get it. I like the idea of buying a core from you and keeping my stock one, no down time for the car. They are not marked by VIN? Please help me understand what the process would be.

Thanks,

Guys at vector. Could you maybe open a thread that outlines all the specifics behind the new ECM deal you have right now. You know, pics, results and install.... seems like we are all thinking about this and Im sure you guys are frantically working to get all the final stuff sorted but I think it would put us all at ease.

Cheers

Caerwyn

So with just a tune, it's up over 400 crank HP? Or does the drive train not suck up 20% of the power? 335 on a Mustang Dyno is pretty damn good!!! Thats a pretty good deal. With just a tune, you have the power of a GXP!!

$950? Even at regular price its only $650 with a new ECM ;) Still where exactly can you get 30HP and 3mpg for either price?

Plus $300 for the Dashhawk to do the crank relearn. I admit it would be a nice tool to have anyway. I just wish it were as simple (and cheap) as the DiabloSport Predator semi-custom tune I used on my 2004 GTO.

Wow, even removes the speed limiter!!!!!! Kewl.

So with just a tune, it's up over 400 crank HP? Or does the drive train not suck up 20% of the power? 335 on a Mustang Dyno is pretty damn good!!! Thats a pretty good deal. With just a tune, you have the power of a GXP!!

On the 436 HP corvettes, the auto's are putting down about 370 rwhp, and those engines are SAE Certified. So about 15% it seems like.

So with just a tune, it's up over 400 crank HP? Or does the drive train not suck up 20% of the power? 335 on a Mustang Dyno is pretty damn good!!! Thats a pretty good deal. With just a tune, you have the power of a GXP!!

It looks like that Mustang dyno is calibrated to read like a DynoJet or higher . A Mustang dyno with "stock" setting is a heartbreaker !
The main thing is not the #'s but the Gains , and 30 hp of the batt isnt bad at all .

This is pretty much directed at VMS to help me with these HP claims.

Do you think that when Pontiac rated the HP they got their HP numbers with 93 octane or 87?

I really would like to know if you put in 87 are you getting the same HP or are you getting dumbed down timings that only produce 350hp etc.


I mean it was said that..with 93 they achieved these results:

Peak to peak stock was
304.8 HP and 315.3 Ft/lbs at the tires on our Mustang Dyno


Im curious to know if 87 would make the same and therefore its really not worth feeding it premium.

VMS,
I sent you an e-mail a few days ago about some specifics about ordering a 93 tune ECM. Did you get it? I did it through your website. I got my 888 today and want to get the ball rolling.
Ed

This is pretty much directed at VMS to help me with these HP claims.

Do you think that when Pontiac rated the HP they got their HP numbers with 93 octane or 87?

I really would like to know if you put in 87 are you getting the same HP or are you getting dumbed down timings that only produce 350hp etc.


I mean it was said that..with 93 they achieved these results:

Peak to peak stock was
304.8 HP and 315.3 Ft/lbs at the tires on our Mustang Dyno


Im curious to know if 87 would make the same and therefore its really not worth feeding it premium.

Please do. I'd like to put an end to all the debate.

I thought that I had read if a dealership has an ECM issue, they'll reflash it to factory specs.

Do you have any idea what the GXP with the LS3 would gain from just a tune? I still think i will wait for the GXP and get a tune for it. and maybe exhaust and an intake while im at it.:gears:

I thought that I had read if a dealership has an ECM issue, they'll reflash it to factory specs.

I don't think it's as simple as using a tech II and changing parameters. They would need to upload the stock file.

I thought that I had read if a dealership has an ECM issue, they'll reflash it to factory specs.

Good reason to buy a spare ECM. Question for VMS...can you tune the transmission by flashing the ECM? Or must you flash the BCM, TCM, or whatever it's called? I'd like to have a spare stock ECM to swap in during warranty work, but will I have to swap more than 1 computer?


Thanks for clarifying this!

The VMS tune really works well. The increased torque and HP is felt everywhere. Can't wait to hear the TCM tune is ready.
Ed

Glad to hear it! Sounds like you're closing in on 12's NOW! And fuel economical. Not bad.
Congrats.

The VMS tune really works well. The increased torque and HP is felt everywhere. Can't wait to hear the TCM tune is ready.
Ed

So you have the VMS ECM then??

care to post your results in detail??

Yes. I have the ECM tune and will have TCM tune as soon as VMS has it ready. The motor pulls stronger with more torque evident everywhere. The transmission seems to perform a bit better but the TCM tune is needed to really improve the shifts. I think the tranny improvement I feel now is from the added torque. My commute to work is only 5 miles and the weather here has been a bit rainy so it is hard to really wring it out but in the couple of WOT sprints I've tried, all i can say is, "Holy crap!" I'm still breaking in the motor so milage is a bit hard to quantify but in general, going by the DIC, I'm getting more than I was before the tune. I need to get out on the interstate and get some crusing number. When I do i will post the numbers.

nice!! Thanks man.
Thats what I ... we... want to hear.:)

Any Updates On The Tcm Fix??

On the 436 HP corvettes, the auto's are putting down about 370 rwhp, and those engines are SAE Certified. So about 15% it seems like.

HEY TRICK STANG...SENT YA A FEW MESSAGES NO REPLIES SO FAR
SO I GOTA CALL U OUT HERE
...I WANNA SEE HOW TRICK YOUR STANG' IS...
I HOPE U KNOW WHERE OLD BAILEY RACEWAY IS....
OUT BY THE ORIG. IBM
LETS DO THIS SUMTIME...
LET ME KNOW....

Any Updates On The Tcm Fix??

We'll be rolling that out either tomorrow or early next week. It's in final testing right now ;)

Could you answer my earlier post about 87 octane and 93.

What HP numbers do you get?

Thanks Vector Motorsports

I only drive abour 5 miles to work and it is stop and go traffic. Over the past 1/3 of a tank with mostly city and some back road (slow) driving I'm showing 16.5 MPG on the DIC. I reset when I filled. Before the VMS ECU the number for the same type of driving was 13.8-14.0 mpg. I would say that initial results support a MPG improvement. Next weekend I'll be taking a couple hundred mile interstate trip and will report the numbers.
Ed

Those fuel economy numbers sound really good ... what about the increase in power ? was it noticeable ?

Yes. Felt stronger everywhere.

Yes. Felt stronger everywhere.
OK, I bit the bullet today and ordered the VMS New_ECM__Outright (+$300.00) +
DashHawk Generation 2 Kit.

Actually, the cost was only a shade over 1/2 of what I spent on the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires.

This will be a first for me, so I hope I don't make smoke come out of the ECM. :p

..... the same type of driving was 13.8-14.0 mpg......


Dayum, someones foot gets stuck alot.

Dayum, someones foot gets stuck alot.

no thats pretty standard I think.
I have been getting that since I bought the car. I now have just over 2k on it and have nearly 15.5mpg.

with the VMS tune and the Hydro setup plus Ethos additive I hope to get 30mpg very soon:drink::gr_jest:

Okay, this all sounds pretty great! But what if I cheap out and get the 6 cylinder. Will there be a tune for the V6?

Okay, this all sounds pretty great! But what if I cheap out and get the 6 cylinder. Will there be a tune for the V6?

Yup its already on the site under the drop down for GT/GXP/BASE ;)

IIf you bought the G8 V8 VMS ECM:

t's fairly easy to install, once you get the hang of it. ASK and we will tell you how to do it quickly and trouble-free!

RRM

It can be customized any way you like, the sport can be fimer than the normal or even the TUTD mode can be firmer still. The options are endless :) We did bump the rev limiter up 200 RPM and it was pulling relatively close to it.

Quick question.

The rev limiter seems to cut in at the same point, did you change this on all the computers or just this car?

Also, the top speed governor still cuts the fuel at 137-138, is the removal of that part of the TCM tune?

Vector ,
Have you figured out the TCM fix ?
It is better to send the programmer or have you send my ECM in?
( you can now program the TCm through the ECM or no just have the TCM fix through the OBDII programmer port...) Ive been off this board a couple of weeks.seeing what the update is

so far from what ive read...

its a cable/programer that they send you and you plug it into your obdII port and program it through there...

and i think its free if you bought one of there ecm upgrades...

Yup its already on the site under the drop down for GT/GXP/BASE ;)

Have any dyno results been posted and are there also mpg gains? Do you have to run premium as well? Thanks for the replies!

Have any dyno results been posted and are there also mpg gains? Do you have to run premium as well? Thanks for the replies!
http://www.g8board.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20446&postcount=16

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20613&postcount=32

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20446&postcount=16

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20613&postcount=32

I think he's inquiring about the 6cyl, not the L76. :p

I think he's inquiring about the 6cyl, not the L76. :p
They make a 6cyl. :confused:

I was wondering why he was asking that when that information was posted all over the site. LOL

Sorry.

They make a 6cyl. :confused:

I was wondering why he was asking that when that information was posted all over the site. LOL

Sorry.

Yup. Inquiring about the 6 cyl.

so what was the final word on theese gains it sounds great

so what was the final word on theese gains it sounds great

Final word is on the dyno sheet posted in this thread :)

Have any dyno results been posted and are there also mpg gains? Do you have to run premium as well? Thanks for the replies!

We've done tons and tons of the 3.6L Engines, its about 20 WHP and 2 MPG gain.

We've done tons and tons of the 3.6L Engines, its about 20 WHP and 2 MPG gain.

Thanks for the reply! One more question, what is the factory WHP?

The factory doesn't quote that. They publish at the crank.

The factory doesn't quote that. They publish at the crank.

But one would assume that Vector would have run a stock V6 on the dyno to get a baseline WHP. Otherwise, how would they know there's a 20 WHP gain? My question is, 20 WHP gain over what? Or at least, what is the final WHP after the tune?

Arrived yesterday in IA. 1640 mi from SW FLA. G8 GT with VMS ECM, fully overloaded, 93 octane gas, no other mods as yet, and wife driving mostly w/o cruise on. G8 COMPUTER SHOWS 23.3MPG AT 69MPH AVE.SPEED! Headwind affected, as first day 700 mi, (1,200 0n ODO) computer read 24.2mpg. For comparison, Denali XL - 14.7 mpg with a 15.3 mpg ave. after first day, all 87 octane. Think the mileage would have been better if she had used cruise, and wasn't following me. Because of the traffic, she was constantly trying to "thread the needle" and had to vary her speed to remain close. We got about the same gas mileage with our 05' Volvo wagon with the 208 hp 5 cyl turbo.

VERY IMPRESSED WITH VMS ECM AS TO MILEAGE! Performs great too.

Rob Moser

Interesting thread.. Firstly I think it is a shame the G8 only got the L76 and not the L98 6 litre like here in Australia. Also the fact that you don't seem to have a lot of 98 Octane fuel over there? (Premium unleaded) thats pretty much all the modified ones run here as it is readily available pretty much everywhere.

standard ours come out at around 360HP. Obviously having a manual is an advantage due to less drive train loss on the dyno and road. I ran mine on the dyno stock.. 301Rear Wheel HP. Then with full exhuast, Over the radiator Cold Air Intake and Tune = around 355-60 RWHP. Big gain was in torque which is around 620 NM's. (or around 440HP at the flywheel)

Economy is pretty good but i cant work out the MPG conversion as we use litres per 100kms. Depends on how agressive you make the tune etc..

Bolt on mods with some good tuning = some great potential for these cars.. keep up the good work guys ;)

3.7 Diff going in this Saturday so that should make a nice difference too.

Big difference is in the exhaust and Air intake..

Old..
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/VE-SS_2006/X-forceHeader5.jpg

New
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/VE-SS_2006/X-ForceFullSystem2.jpg

and a new Race Ripshifter for better gear changes and slicker shift.. Bet u cant wait to get the manual version!
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l231/VE-SS_2006/rip5.jpg

Nice goodies. I love having a vehicle that is full of add-on options and support. The main reason I won't own a Mopar.

So for a VMS tune and an extra ECM to swap in for warranty purposes, the cost rundown is like this....

349 - Tune
300 - Extra ECM
299 - Dashhawk

948 - total??

Is this accurate? Also, does the Dashhawk need to be purchased from VMS for any special reason or can it be any Dashhawk?

Man, if its 1000$ for a tune, I guess I know where my economic stimulus check is going.

So for a VMS tune and an extra ECM to swap in for warranty purposes, the cost rundown is like this....

349 - Tune
300 - Extra ECM
299 - Dashhawk

948 - total??

Is this accurate? Also, does the Dashhawk need to be purchased from VMS for any special reason or can it be any Dashhawk?

Man, if its 1000$ for a tune, I guess I know where my economic stimulus check is going.

That's pretty much it. The $300 isn't really an "extra" ECM. It means you don't have to send them your original ECM back. So you get to keep the stock one to swap out if you feel it's necessary for warranty work.

The dashhawk can be bought anywhere. They go for $299 on up to $400 depending on what site you go to. I would just make sure to get the newest version of it.

VMS was running a special on the ECM. Not sure if this is still going on or not. You'd have to check with them on that one.

Eh I think you may be confused:

1. Tune $349
2. Spare NEW ECM $150 with First G8 coupon
3. Dashhawk - $249 with coupon

We developed the Dashhawk with MSD, I'd be VERY suprised if you find a lower price anywhere.

Thanks again to Kirk (and Chris for posting on this site) over at Vector!!!! Noticed much improved transmission and gear shifting in the first 5 miles. There was also a noticeable increase in acceleration and horsepower! Too bad money is an obstacle for me right now, otherwise I'd be right back in there next week to have you install the Rotofab CAI.

Eh I think you may be confused:

1. Tune $349
2. Spare NEW ECM $150 with First G8 coupon
3. Dashhawk - $249 with coupon

We developed the Dashhawk with MSD, I'd be VERY suprised if you find a lower price anywhere.
Coupon? Same 1stG8 coupon for a Dashhawk?

Coupon? Same 1stG8 coupon for a Dashhawk?

So if there is a 30 hp gain with just the tune, how much more does the CAI add?

Ditto for the 3 mpg, would the CAI improve this?

Will either tune or CAI violate the engine warranty?

How much louder does the tune make the car? the CAI?

Sorry about lots of stupid questions, but I never modified a car before and am not a mechanic.

But it sounds very interesting?

So if there is a 30 hp gain with just the tune, how much more does the CAI add?

I would not expect the same gains that you see from a CAI alone. But, there definitely will be gains. If VMS is getting one of these and running a tune on it, I am sure they will post their results as soon as they have them.


Ditto for the 3 mpg, would the CAI improve this?

I would imagine it would improve the mpg's, but nothing as drastic as 3 mpg. Probably not going to notice it much.


Will either tune or CAI violate the engine warranty?

Anything that is damaged because of something you put on aftermarket will be your responsibility to take care of. Most dealers could care less about a CAI. The tune they would really have to dig deep for which most are not going to do. If you get the ECM and keep your OEM one then you can just swap them out before you go in for service.


How much louder does the tune make the car? the CAI?

The tune does not have a noticeable effect on the sound of the car. The CAI sounds normal to me under normal driving conditions. When the car is at WOT, you can hear a little bit of a growl but it's not really that loud at all. I have been very impressed with the CAI. I have had some in the past that were WAY too loud and vibrated. This one is great, imo.

Sorry about lots of stupid questions, but I never modified a car before and am not a mechanic.

Not stupid questions at all. Everyone has to start somewhere. Have fun with it. These mods are very easy to do yourself. The instructions on the CAI are very easy to follow.


But it sounds very interesting?


...

Eh I think you may be confused:

1. Tune $349
2. Spare NEW ECM $150 with First G8 coupon
3. Dashhawk - $249 with coupon

We developed the Dashhawk with MSD, I'd be VERY suprised if you find a lower price anywhere.

Wow, didn't know about the FirstG8 coupon..

How long will this deal be available? I am still trying to recover from a tax rape when I bought my tag. 1000$ for a piece of tin with some numbers and letters.:cursin:

A little while longer, we'll continue it a little into may I suppose :)

A little while longer, we'll continue it a little into may I suppose :)

Thankyou! I have to wait for a payment to clear today before I can order. I'll have to wait til June to do The flashexpress. :)

Has Vector or anyone else done a 0-60 mph timing after the ECM tune and or CAI?

Thankyou! I have to wait for a payment to clear today before I can order. I'll have to wait til June to do The flashexpress. :)

I orded it this morning, I'm looking forward to the improvements. :)

Kep, you need to re-order and not put so much info in the memo section. If you put too much info in it crashes our order system and your order is lost.

Sorry about that, I'll leave it empty this time.

Hey, how have you guys been progressing on the Roto-Fab intsall/dyno tests today?

How difficult is it to remove the ECM?

How difficult is it to remove the ECM?

Not hard at all, if you have smaller hands you might be able to get it out without moving anything at all.

Have there been any additional tests to validate the increased MPG?

Yup about 50+ end users :)

It's been a while now, so do we have an MPG check from anyone that deactivated their AFM?

We dont deactivate the AFM, not sure who has; there is really no reason to other than a big camshaft.

Just wanted to add my two cents about Vector Motor sports. I had their tune in my AWD TB SS and it was worth every penny. Had the TCM programed also. Averaged about 2-3 mpg increase. The mod of the torque management system and shift points were awesome. Overall a great company to deal with. On a seperate point I have been a GM service writer for 15 years so I personally don't have anything to worry about when it comes to warranty work but I did ask my tech's if the could "tell" that I had a tune and the answer was no. Not sure if this is still true but Vector used to reflash/reprogram the modules if something was to happen at the dealer such as a BCM fault and it had to be replaced. Maybe they could comment on this. Otherwise this tune is a no brainer!