I am not trying to start a flame war of any sorts, and this is a completely honest question, but what is wrong with a 6 speed selectable auto transmission?

I currently drive a 6spd manual ford focus, and all my previous cars (Eclipse, honda) have been manuals. The only automatics i have driven was a 1986 Volvo 240 DL and late 90s nissan sentra. Neither of these has selectable gears. You just put in in D and that's all you could do.

Now I have to fully admit that I don't have a lot of knowledge about what can and can't be done with an automatic, so let me just lay out everything I think I know.

With a selectable auto transmission, the car does not change until you either click up a gear or down a gear. Down shifts are very computer specific, so depending on the computer you may have to wait until the car thinks it's ok to down shift a gear.

Going off of that, the only thing I can see being really different are:

a.) you don't have to push in a clutch
b.) you hope that the programming of the computer is aggressive enough to allow you to down shift at high RPMs.

I do b.) occasionally in the focus, but that's mostly because most of the power is near the top of its range. I don't think this is nearly as big an issue with the v8 in the G8, so I don't see the big issue with an automatic.

I can understand from a simple "physical act" point of view. I love manually changing gears even at slow speeds (when it's not necessary) just because I can, but is there any real issue aside from this "feel" that I should know about?

Sorry if any part of this was unclear, it's difficult to ask a flame sensitive question in an intelligent manner.

Auto trans when in D does change gears automatically as need arises. Starting from a standstill it usually uses 2 not 1 and changes as you speed up. There is even a lockout at speed on teh torque converter in most AT's so it will feel like it has one more gear than it really does. When you stomp on accelerator it will downshift when necessary as well.

Now by most accounts, the selection of manual shifting of the AT is not as quick as some writers would like. But I am sure (to be confirmed by a drive) that it does shift quicker than manually moving a non-manumatic between th egear positions (such from D to 2 to 1 or L) It may take some getting used to coming from manual as you are, but a little pre-selection ahead of when you want to shift may be all that's necessary. The dyed in the wool gearheads of course are holding out for eth GXP.

Auto trans when in D does change gears automatically as need arises. Starting from a standstill it usually uses 2 not 1 and changes as you speed up. There is even a lockout at speed on teh torque converter in most AT's so it will feel like it has one more gear than it really does. When you stomp on accelerator it will downshift when necessary as well.



So I guess the question is, can you start off in 1 through the selector, or do you start in D, drive, then move it over?

I am basically assuming I am going to be spending 80% of the time I drive in +/- selection mode, so how it responds solely in D is not that big of an issue to me.

You can start in 1, but it seems REALLY short, so you end up in 2 pretty quickly. Either that, or maybe I'm just not used to having this much power. :)

As chief said...pre-selection is probably going to become 2nd nature. The shifts are very smooth, so I think to avoid snapping necks and slamming into gears, the shifts get drawn out a little. I spend most my time in D or S just because I tend to forget in M and rev out to 6000 before I remember. I've never driven stick, so it's not in my head yet.

Mike

I also wonder (haven't researched it) if B&M or Hurst makes a line pressure switch to increase line pressure. I put one of them on my F-150 years ago (before it was stock on the Chevy's) and it made a WORLD of difference which that truck needed BADLY! I still have it on there and it still functions great. You can select from #1 slightly quicker shifts (less clutch slip) or #2 which bangs them in pretty damn hard. I leave it in 1 all the time but 2 is nice for pulling the boat around town. I have just short of 90,000 on my truck with (knock on wood) no transmission issues.

Anyone know if they have something like that for the 6L80E???

Just a thought...

Here's my take on manual vs. automatic:

1) Manual gearboxes are vastly simpler than an automatic. Driven responsibly, they are virtually indestructible. They are also a bit lighter weight than an automatic.

2) Automatics are complex. A complex valve body can become "sticky" with time, and deteriorating hydraulic pump pressures can result in slipping clutch plates. Ford transmissions are notorious for their noisy pumps after they get some miles on them -- hopefully not an issue with GM.

3) Automatic transmissions require periodic service (fluid/filter changes). Most slushbox drivers neglect this because they don't plan to keep their cars long enough to cause problems. Good luck!

4) A clutch in the car of an experienced driver will last longer than the car. An automatic is a repair waiting for a time to occur. I've been lucky with my GTP for 165,000 miles, but it has been frequently serviced and driven by the wife.

5) A manual is more power efficient and more fuel efficient. A skilled driver in a manual will equal times of an automatic on the strip.

6) And a manual is simply more fun and interesting to drive. It becomes second nature to those of us who have driven nothing else most of our lives (since '75 for me).

I am very eager to get my hands on the A6 and see how it feels, however. This will be my wife's car, but I may condescend to drive it once in a while. :gr_devil:

5) A skilled driver in a manual will equal times of an automatic on the strip.:


I doubt it. Unless its my grandma behind the automatic.

I have to agree with BlueGoat. I have 235K on my 1988 S-15 5spd. Replaced the clutch once at 195K and that was because the throw out bearing was squealing like a stuck pig it wasn't slipping at all.

The one thing that sucks about a manual is stop'n'go traffic ! Atlanta traffic is a friggin nightmare !

Well if you take care of them and follow the manufactures recommended service intervals your auto can have a long happy life.

My wife's truck has 125k miles, and every 40k miles I'll change the tranny fluid and it's still running strong.

My parents have a '93 Chevrolet 1/2 Ton Suburban with 275,xxx miles on the STOCK TRANSMISSION. Granted it's not a fresh tranny, but my mother still routinely makes the trip to my great grandmother's house in Mobile Alabama from Houston TX.


Like anything else, lifespan will depend on how you treat it. If you abuse anything, it will eventually break, as will anything mechanical. Automatic transmissions have come a long way, and replacing bearings, clutches pressure plates ect will come close to having a transmission rebuilt.

Which BTW I will never have another auto rebuilt... In the long run it's cheaper to buy a brand new one from the dealership and be done with it... Hard to find a mechanic that knows what the hell he's doing..

Anyway, I gotta get back to work.

Hard to find a mechanic that knows what the hell he's doing..


Ah, yes, the "Peter Principle." If you're not familiar with that term, it means that no one is competent at their job. Once you become competent, you get promoted to the next level job where you don't know what you're doing. Good mechanics become service managers and hire new kids that they have to train from scratch. Exceptions are rare, so if you find a good mechanic, take good care of him.

THe vector motorsports tune takes care of the min. lag the stock tranny has...
the car is quickest in sport auto mode..
there still is too many macho wanna bes that are "real men drive stick only" get over it....theres no way you can row your own gears as fast as a moded auto

the car is quickest in sport auto mode..
there still is too many macho wanna bes that are "real men drive stick only" get over it....theres no way you can row your own gears as fast as a moded auto

That is probably true, although having not owned a personal driver with a slushbox since my new '75 Saab, I'm not too bad. :) But I'll bet, IMHO, I have more fun driving my sticks, thinking ahead, picking gears, hearing that engine on downshift when you blip the throttle on a double-clutch and then hit the lower gear with perfect engine RPM match, than those who live for the strip. It's a different type of driving and a different mindset. There are few 2-lane roads where I live, mostly interstates or winding, hilly single-lane highways -- the stuff of dreams for stick shift jockeys. If I lived in LA, my driving would be vastly different and I'd probably agree with you.

Here is what mine does, if you shift from 1-2 in the slap shift mode it just doesn't want to shift on time. Sometimes it feels like it doesn't want to shift at all and falls flat on its face. It won't shift on time. I can shift at 4500, it will be lucky to shift at 5500. It does that most evertime, we put a scanner on it and it didn't throw any error codes, but, the service writer felt what I was talking about. Second to third is ok, doesn't shift real firmly, but, does shift on time. Car and driver had some of the same problems. One article said it ran 13.5 but wouldn't do it in the manual mode and the just left it in autoshift. GM needs to get a fix for it, or it was a waist of time and money to mess with the manual shift mode. Surely with enough complaints they will fix it. All three cars from the dealership had simular problems.
locrzn

GM has been known to make the best autos for 1/4 mile drags, however when it comes to road racing you need a manual tranny in the case of the g8... BMW, Audi, and now Mitsu have come up with a twin clutch tranny that proves to be better than traditional manual transmissions.. shifting faster, launch control, etc...

so when/if i buy the g8, it'll be the gxp and manual tranny... because i'm young, and i prefer to have total control of the vehicle... :)

There's nothing wrong with driving a performance type car that's has an automatic. In fact todays autos are better performing than the older gen trannys in both durability, consistency and performance.

All the sports cars I've ever own were manuals except for my srt8 with an auto-stick.

The real drivers experience is about rowing your own gears in a sports car. Rowing a stick is total bliss when you can drive aggressively on an open road. It's the stop and go city or highway traffic that becomes a bummer.

Besides...you can't easily blip a rev on someone with an automatic like you can with a stick.

just test drove one. love the car... HATE!!! I repeat HATE!!! the transmission. I think this whole autostick garbage was a terrible idea. when I'm driving a car with that much power, i need to feel like i'm in control. without a clutch and a real shifter it just doesn't feel right. kind of like eating a strip and the guy next to you telling you how great your fillet should be. i for one will be waiting for the GXP so i can get a true manual. oh, and does anyone else find it weird that they made the upshift in the forward position? it's unnatural to push the lever forward while 350 ft/lbs of torque are throwing you back. it sucks cause i really want it now.

Gm Service Department As 4:00 4\24\08 For Transmission Shift Problems A Simple Re Programe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!g8#602

I dont follow, gtotim. Are you saying GM will re-program?

Mines been reprogrammed already. I was at the dealer yesterday, 4/25.

Mines been reprogrammed already. I was at the dealer yesterday, 4/25.

Result?
Impressions?
What has changed?
Thanks,
- Ray
Test drove a G8 GT this AM - still concerns about the 6L80...

Ray, I'll be out later today. I posted somewhere else that it was what seemed like harsh shifts to me. To be completely honest, later on the family was in the car and everyone likes to talk all at once, so paying attention was difficult.

Doesn't your Corvette have the 6L80?

I just called my dealer in Midland, MI and they said they were not showing a TSB (Technical Service Bulliten) for the G8 GT. What's up with that?

That was the same thing that happened to me on thursday when I went to pick the car up. I told them to check for updates and they said that there weren't any.... I need to know what to say when I go back un two weeks for the part install as they had to order it. I want to fix the sloppy tranny problem. Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

Yea, how do some dealerships see that there's a TSB & some don't?

Ray, I'll be out later today. I posted somewhere else that it was what seemed like harsh shifts to me. To be completely honest, later on the family was in the car and everyone likes to talk all at once, so paying attention was difficult.

Doesn't your Corvette have the 6L80?

Yes. 22,000 miles of experience with the 6L80.
Here are my trans. comments from a test drive Saturday AM.

The trans. downshift behavior still concerns me a bit. I currently drive a GM V8 with the 6L80 trans. Corvette Coupe. With 2007 calibrations & hardware version. For 2008 the 6L80 version in the Corvette was substantially revised & updated ( hardware & software ) to quicken both the upshifts and downshifts – and to do a better job ( by some reports ) on the “rev match on downshift”. My 2007 does not do this at all ( or does it so poorly as not to be worth of the name ) on 3 – 2 or 2 –1 downshifts.

Sadly, though, both of the 2 G8 GTs I have now driven seem to do a reasonably good job when manually commanded to downshift from 6 – 5, 5 – 4, and 4 – 3 ( the relatively “easy” ones ), but - I was ** NOT ** impressed with the 3 – 2 or 2 – 1 downshifts I tried. And I tried several.

These were not at all extreme downshifts – not 3 – 2 at 60 or 2 –1 at 35, for example. More like 3 – 2, while slowing through 30 or 25 MPH and about to accelerate – requiring a ‘blip’ to something like 2500 RPM. To me, these downshifts felt more like someone driving a manual trans, downshifting, and abruptly letting out the clutch – without a throttle blip. Seems to accomplish the actual downshift a bit more quickly than mine – and responds a bit more quickly – meaning: command to beginning of shift execution seems a bit quicker. But not nearly what I had hoped for, however, after reading the 2008 Corvette technical data & reviews.

Somewhat disappointing. Probably not a deal-breaker, for me.

Note: The trans. ** DOES ** perform ( in several respects important to me ) much better then the 6L50 in a 2008 Caddy CTS I rented & drove a couple of hundred miles last month . . .

- Ray
picky, picky...

After spending some time in the G8 yesterday, mostly around town, I watched how it was shifting. However, I didn't check out the sport shift side.
Under medium throttle, the trans seem like it falls into the next gear. This is the best way I can express it. You can feel the torque management. It did this in up to 3rd gear.
My manual downshifts have always rev matched with no problem. I do have to be careful with the 2 to 1 downshift as rpm matching seems to make it lurch some.
Hopefully this is helpful, reading it, it doesn't appear so.

... I do have to be careful with the 2 to 1 downshift as rpm matching seems to make it lurch some.
Hopefully this is helpful, reading it, it doesn't appear so.

The primary point ( in my view ) of the rev match \ throttle blip on downshifts is to ** AVOID ** that lurch – to smooth the transition.

Oh, well . . .

My personal experiences with my G8 GT, in terms of the automatic, having owned a lot of autos and a lot of sticks.

1.) In normal drive, the car shifts like I would expect a luxury car to shift. You can barely perceive the shifts (I can, but I have to pay attention) and the passengers have no idea its shifting. I use my car to tote around customers from time to time, so comfort is numero uno to me. A stick just doesn't give you this, regardless of how skilled you are.

2.) The manual mode is just short of completely useless. 1-2 shifts are next to impossible, 2-3 is almost as impossible, and the other gears I could care less about shifting myself. Its just entirely too slow and doesn't have any sort of power between shifts.

3.) Sport mode is the only mode to use, if you really want to have fun with the car. Although the shifts are firmer and faster then normal Drive, I find myself completely unsatisfied by the slow/weak shifts.

4.) Downshifts are slow and the car seems to hunt quite a bit. Rolling along at 30-40mph, you tromp on the gas, it'll shift down, then shift down again, to the appropriate gear. Not responsive enough for my likes. If I need to "get into it" with the car, chances are I really need the car to accelerate NOW. Highway driving and BUSY city driving is when I want that TQ to be available.

But, this is a daily driver for me. I wanted the car to shift smooth, I'm very happy with the day to day driving of the car. Having "tested" the cars capabilities, the sport mode really slows the car down, a LOT. Side by side with a Mustang GT 5.0, drag tires, drag suspension, 2000lbs lighter, I expected to get annihilated out of the hole. I didn't expect to lose ground between shifts, version his 5spd stick. The motor did all that it was supposed to, chasing him down, but the tranny left me desiring a LOT.

Overall, in drive, the car is everything I've ever wanted. In sport mode, its the biggest disappointment in GM RWD V8 power. I expected the 6 speed to shift fast and better straight line accelleration over my experience with the 9C1 Caprice I had years ago.

I'm hoping GM comes out with a TCM reflash to better sport mode and manual mode. If not, I'll be paying out of pocket for a "tune". I am not an easy driver. I push my cars hard at times, I've never had problems with GM autos in the past, beyond their end-of-life 180K mile issues, so maybe GM is trying to make this tranny live. Who knows. It doesn't ruin the car for me, but it certainly doesn't put a huge smile on my face when it shifts under WOT.

... were based largely on these slides from a GM
presentation - describing the 6L80 'upgrades' for
2008 - in the Corvette version ...


http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v610/talon_90th/Corvette/NCM%20Bash%202007/2008%20Introduction%20slides/?action=view&current=100_8105.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v610/talon_90th/Corvette/NCM%20Bash%202007/2008%20Introduction%20slides/?action=view&current=100_8102.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v610/talon_90th/Corvette/NCM%20Bash%202007/2008%20Introduction%20slides/?action=view&current=100_8101.jpg

Nice slides. I think the G8 shifts two orders of magnitude slower then their slides are showing.

Nice slides. I think the G8 shifts two orders of magnitude slower then their slides are showing.

It is almost as if GM had a couple thousand ‘2007 versions’ of the 6L80 “laying around” the plant in Mexico – and shipped THOSE to Australia, for the initial ( 2008 ) run of G8 GTs . . .

- Ray
Not a conspiracy theorist, but . . .

Actually, I think it was smart in GM's eyes. The G8 is what? 1000lbs heavier then the corvette. Having the tranny slam into gear would be quite the load shock. Plus, it is purely a program away from being everything the corvette is. I had my 9C1 Caprice tuned years ago, and the shifts could be firmed up a LOT from factory. It made a huge difference, albeit, it was very hard on the tranny. I just want sport mode to be, i dunno, sporty.

I'm actually due to email Troy Clarke, President of GM North America, as I met with him a few weeks back and he's the reason I'm driving a G8. After complaining how GM didn't make a car equivalent to the late 90's full size cars (interior quality wise), he pointed me towards this car. I had purchased one within days of the meeting. I'm going to give him my feedback on the car (which he asked for) and mention the tranny issue. It really is my only big issue with the car.

Actually, I think it was smart in GM's eyes. The G8 is what? 1000lbs heavier then the corvette. Having the tranny slam into gear would be quite the load shock. Plus, it is purely a program away from being everything the corvette is. I had my 9C1 Caprice tuned years ago, and the shifts could be firmed up a LOT from factory. It made a huge difference, albeit, it was very hard on the tranny. I just want sport mode to be, i dunno, sporty.

I'm actually due to email Troy Clarke, President of GM North America, as I met with him a few weeks back and he's the reason I'm driving a G8. After complaining how GM didn't make a car equivalent to the late 90's full size cars (interior quality wise), he pointed me towards this car. I had purchased one within days of the meeting. I'm going to give him my feedback on the car (which he asked for) and mention the tranny issue. It really is my only big issue with the car.

I actually have no issues ( in 2 fairly brief test drives ) with the quickness nor the quality \ feel of the upshifts. In deference to new cars ( less than 50 miles in both ) I did ** NOT ** accelerate at WOT nor shift at high RPM.

Sounds like your issue is largely with the manual upshifts, when driving ( um ) briskly.

“2.) The manual mode is just short of completely useless. 1-2 shifts are next to impossible, 2-3 is almost as impossible . . ”

This surprises me – as my Corvette experience has been that ( aside from a slight lag on ‘command to execution’, the actual upshifts are typically crisp - but never anything I’d characterize as a ‘slam’. Even at WOT and 5,500+ RPM.

Odd.

My sense is that a well executed ‘rev match \ throttle blip on downshift’ would both provide smoother feel and contribute to drivetrain longevity – as the shock loads would be reduced.

I have posted my detailed impressions here:

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36872#post36872

Please post Troy’s response?

Thanks,
- Ray
With this as 1 of only 2 ‘big issues’ . . .

I actually have no issues ( in 2 fairly brief test drives ) with the quickness nor the quality \ feel of the upshifts. In deference to new cars ( less than 50 miles in both ) I did ** NOT ** accelerate at WOT nor shift at high RPM.

Sounds like your issue is largely with the manual upshifts, when driving ( um ) briskly.

Well, maybe I should clarify. Its not so much the speed at which the car decides to change gears, its the speed that the ACTUAL change takes. The shift firmness is VERY weak, hence taking forever to get back to full power. I'm sure this has to do with line pressure in the tranny, maybe GM decided to dial back the power between shifts as well.

The manual mode is just slow with everything. It seems to take a few seconds from the tap to decide to move, then its the same slow process of shifting to power again, as sport mode has.

I do love normal "Drive" though. Its smooth as can be and passengers love it. Its a dream to drive as a luxury car. It just lacks in the "I want to shoot straight forward at high rates of speed". I don't require tire chirping between gears... but something better then this.

If/When I get a response from Mr Clarke, I'll let you guys know.

I'm picking mine up tomorrow - so what was the answer regarding the TSB?? Is there one and if so, what number is it and how do I confirm that the dealership took care of it before delivery? Also, does it solve the problems?

Thanks,
BJ

I spoke to the dealer today, and after some searching found that my VIN matched a "campaign" which calls for a number of cryptic items, but does mention "PCM and TCM reprogram". The number is 08150. He didn't know anything further. I will call another, larger dealer to run this to ground, but am hoping for some relief from the same shifting woes.

Today I had a back fire while I was manually shifting from 1st to 2nd. It took way too long to shift.

Again, the TSB has a typo of sorts, there is only a new ECM calibration for OBD compliance with generic scan tools. The TCM calibration is the same.