Can someone please chime in:

Why is the new for 2009 4.5l duramax exclusive to trucks? It looks a little tall, but that's only a guess. (edit: nevermind, I read my own link - it is not exclusive to trucks :-))

I think it would really round out the G8 offerings in our current climate of 'carbon-consciousness'

linky:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/15/gm-announces-clean-diesel-v8-for-pickups-and-the-hummer-h2/

Mark your calendars, because we're calling today a watershed moment for the advancement of diesel's acceptance in the U.S. General Motors has just announced a new 4.5L V8 Duramax turbo-diesel powerplant it plans to use in the Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra half-ton pickups, as well as the HUMMER H2. The new oil burner is expected to produce at least 310 horsepower and 520 ft-lbs. of torque. It features dual-overhead cams, four valves per cylinder, a variable-vane turbocharger and aluminum cylinder heads with integrated manifolding that helps keep the overall package small enough to fit in the same space as the automaker's small-block gas V8s.

That's right, just imagine the possibilities. Wherever GM uses a small-block V8 gas engine, it could potentially use the 4.5L V8 Duramax diesel. In a few years we could be driving diesel Impalas, diesel Camaros, maybe even a diesel Corvette! To quote GM's press release, the engine's small size gives it "the flexibility to introduce this engine in a wide variety of vehicle applications should there be future market demand." Indeed.

GM estimates that the engine will improve fuel efficiency by 25%, reduce CO2 emissions by 13% and decrease particulate and NOx emissions by at least 90% in its GMT900 pickups and the HUMMER H2. Whoever said the HUMMER H2 was on its way out will likely be proven incorrect after this engine debuts. Scheduled to be built at the GM Tonawanda engine plant outside Buffalo, NY, the 4.5L V8 Duramax diesel will be 50-state emissions compliant and meet 2010 diesel emissions standards, as well. GM claims its new diesel will also have NVH (Noise, Vibration and Harshness) levels approaching those of today's current gas V8s, though we'll have to wait and see if that wish comes true. That wait should end in a couple of years, as the automaker states the engine will be available in Silverado, Sierra and H2 models built after 2009.

You will not see much diesel use again in the US until all the bugs are worked out of the urea injection systems or other technologies necessary to meet the regs that are more stringent for cars than for trucks. And they are even more stringent than Europe where th ediesel has beem embraced for years.

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Dude is crazy there will be more diesel cars released in the US in the next two years than Hybrids (until the 2010's all come through).

Obviously we are going to see increased usage of diesels but I wouldn't bet on seeing it in a G8. Are you ready to pay a minimum of $5K more for that option and then pay up to a dollar more per gallon to fuel it? The first priority will be to use the 4.5L in trucks and SUV's.

This is what comes to mind:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=z4BrHzlOOQg

(seen on pimp my ride)

Because, you may not be aware of this, a diesel option adds a large chunk of $$$ to the options to a vehicle. For example, the DuraMax in the pickups adds nearly $5k in a single option to the truck. It’s not just the cost of the engine, it’s the cost of the ancilliary running gear/systems to run diesel.

With that said, until diesel becomes much more commonplace, reducing said initial costs, as well as diesel fuel availability, you’re not going to see them in vehicles such as passenger cars, where there are slim profit margins and tight pricing between competing models. This is not the case with the trucks/SUV’s which have very comfortable profit margins.

Obviously we are going to see increased usage of diesels but I wouldn't bet on seeing it in a G8. Are you ready to pay a minimum of $5K more for that option and then pay up to a dollar more per gallon to fuel it? The first priority will be to use the 4.5L in trucks and SUV's.

True that. GM already has this car over the gas guzzler minimum. They're more concerned with getting the rest of their vehicles over it. Maybe in a high end, next generation version, but not anytime in the immediate future.

Not to mention the current cost of diesel. Some states are paying $5.00+ per gallon on diesel while regular is over $1.00/gal less.

In the past (as long as I can remember) diesel was always cheaper than regular.

The current price for diesel here is $4.00 - $4.20 /gal.
The current price for regular here is $3.30 - $3.40 /gal.

I think diesel is going to become obsolete for cars and light trucks. The technology to reduce emissions is much more intrusive and costly then for gas engines. (the DPF filters in the new Duramax's are causing lots of issues). In addition the cost of diesel fuel has become much more expensive relative to gasoline.

There's just no ROI left in diesel.

$4.84/gallon is what my Father-in law said it took to fill his work truck the other day.

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Dude is crazy there will be more diesel cars released in the US in the next two years than Hybrids (until the 2010's all come through).

I'm not crazy. Why do you think the diesel option of the Jeep Liberty disappeared? Please list all available diesel passenger cars for sale for the 2008 model year in the US. List of one, Mercedes E-class at over $50k. Other vehicles do include Jeep Grand Cherokee, VW Touareg 2 (from $68k), 3 SUV/wagon Merc's as well as a raft of trucks and full-size vans. Emissions rules got tighter and until the technology catches up ( as well as the demand from purchasers) diesel passenger cars (including a 300hp diesel Subaru flat 6) they will be few and far between. BTW diesel here is over $.25 / gallon, almost a buck higher than gas - therefore negating any cost savings due to better mpg.

The only downfall to my duramax purchase is the price of fuel. When I bought my truck it was $2.99 a gallon. That wasn't even a year ago. My last tank was $4.15 and it's gone up since. It's not all terrible. 18+ MPG is great, 4x4 is great, ground clearance is awesome, towing is great, the 6 speed allison is perfect.

But $100 a tank is not fun.

Ha... with CUV, SUV, and large sedans getting 45+mpg how does it not make economicall sense to still buy $4.50 a gallon of diesel with comparable petrol engines getting half that?

Diesels run forever, I'd easily pay $5k more for the option. I didn't say NOW, I said in the next two years.

VW Jetta, Toureg, Tiguan, BWM 3 and X5, MB E and M class, Subaru, Mitsubishi, GM, Audi A4 and Q5, will all have new diesels in the US in the next 2-3 years.

Also don't forget about the Acura TSX, Honda Accord, Nissan Maxima, etc, etc.

Holden will be producing a Diesel Commodore. But with a 2.9L V6.

Holden will be producing a Diesel Commodore. But with a 2.9L V6.

That is from VM Motori which GM purchased 50% of from Penske, VM Motori is based in Cento, Italy.

They want to use the engine in the CTS and other things. Most of what I read tho is that its for the export version of the cars. The cars going to Australia and Europe.

The 6.6L Duramax was designed by DMAX, a joint venture between Izuzu and GM. That venture is no longer active I believe. The 4.5L is 100% GM (using what they learned from DMAX) from what I recall and is being built in New York. I want to say by Buffalo, I passed the plant last time I was went to Toronto.

Yep thats correct.

IMHO the duramax is too loud of an engine for the G8. Need something a bit more refined.

Engine durability is usually not a factor in cars since few people buy them new and keep them 200,000 miles. When you start pushing small gasoline engines with turbos and superchargers to gain power and maintain mileage, then durability does become an issue. Remember that the factory has to maintain warranty coverage on these things.

Yep thats correct.

IMHO the duramax is too loud of an engine for the G8. Need something a bit more refined.


DuraMax too loud! LOL!

Have you ever listened to a Powerstroke or Cummins? The D-Max is whisper quiet compared to either of them!

And to be brutally honest, me being a diesel fan, I WANT TO HEAR IT! Make it louder!

That is from VM Motori which GM purchased 50% of from Penske, VM Motori is based in Cento, Italy.

They want to use the engine in the CTS and other things. Most of what I read tho is that its for the export version of the cars. The cars going to Australia and Europe.

The 6.6L Duramax was designed by DMAX, a joint venture between Izuzu and GM. That venture is no longer active I believe. The 4.5L is 100% GM (using what they learned from DMAX) from what I recall and is being built in New York. I want to say by Buffalo, I passed the plant last time I was went to Toronto.

Tonawanda, NY. Just outside of Buffalo/Niagra Falls area. This is the old BBC plant.

DuraMax too loud! LOL!
And to be brutally honest, me being a diesel fan, I WANT TO HEAR IT! Make it louder!

Yea, but a truck is different than a sedan. Would you want to hear it if it was in your bonneville?

Well I traded my Cummins in for the G8... From what the salesman told me, I'm not alone.. Just glad I got mine traded in before the market got saturated with used diesel's and dropped the trade in value..

Then again, even if you don't own a diesel, the absurd high prices for the by-product of gas is hurting each and every one of us.. Everything you use or consume was made possible by Diesel trucks.. Noticed prices going up at the grocery store??

Hopefully some time in the near future something will give... And it doesn't help with those idiots on Wallstreet manipulating the price of crude oil...

So biodiesel hasn't taken off in the US yet?

So biodiesel hasn't taken off in the US yet?

There is one place in Houston, and it's not too much cheaper than the regular low-sulfur crap..

Well I traded my Cummins in for the G8... From what the salesman told me, I'm not alone.. Just glad I got mine traded in before the market got saturated with used diesel's and dropped the trade in value..

Then again, even if you don't own a diesel, the absurd high prices for the by-product of gas is hurting each and every one of us.. Everything you use or consume was made possible by Diesel trucks.. Noticed prices going up at the grocery store??

Hopefully some time in the near future something will give... And it doesn't help with those idiots on Wallstreet manipulating the price of crude oil...

brother in-law sold his 2500HD Duramax in one day, there is a market for used Diesels. Namely people who have to have a truck to haul something and don't want a big Hemi or Ford V10 that get 8-10 mpg.

brother in-law sold his 2500HD Duramax in one day, there is a market for used Diesels. Namely people who have to have a truck to haul something and don't want a big Hemi or Ford V10 that get 8-10 mpg.


I bet it was an LBZ or earlier Duramax. There's demand for the pre emission Duramax's and 8.1 gassers.

I bet it was an LBZ or earlier Duramax. There's demand for the pre emission Duramax's and 8.1 gassers.

LB7 perhaps? LBZ was the 2nd to last irritation of the 6.6L Duramax. The LBZ was the last before the 2007 emissions control.

So biodiesel hasn't taken off in the US yet?

B11 will be available in my area soon (seasonal) and should be a little less expensive, but not by much. It's only 11% bio and safe to run in production engines. I wouldnt trust it in extreme colds tho.

Yea, but a truck is different than a sedan. Would you want to hear it if it was in your bonneville?

I still want to hear it. I love the sound of a diesel.

brother in-law sold his 2500HD Duramax in one day, there is a market for used Diesels. Namely people who have to have a truck to haul something and don't want a big Hemi or Ford V10 that get 8-10 mpg.

Or GM's Big Block gasser at 496 cubes that puts both the dodge and the ford gassers on the trailer, so to speak.

Actually there is a market for the gassers too! People who still want to tow, but don't want to plunk down nearly $5k more for an optional motor. Something along the line of $900 is more feasible.

Right now, with diesel prices the way they are and the cost of the diesel to begin with, far offsets the gain in mileage. In order to make benefit of those costs, the average owner (not one using it for business purposes where it runs 24/7), would take nearly 5+ years to recoupe those costs in mileage savings.

While my 8.1 got 9 mpg on a good day, at $850 for an upgrade (which is what the 8.1 was in 2002), and low grade fuel (since the 8.1 has such low compression) hovering at about $3.60 a gallon here in Chicago, I'd almost welcome the 9 mpg.

Diesels run forever, I'd easily pay $5k more for the option. I didn't say NOW, I said in the next two years.

But the rest of the buying public doesn't agree with you.

Lets say for sake of argument, most people that would be interested in a diesel option for the G8, aren't looking at a GT or GXP. They're looking at an upgrade option over the V6 more than anything.

Starting at $27,595, most people opt up in some upgrades for the car. Let's be fair and push that price with those upgrades to $29k. Now lets add a diesel option in at $5k, and now, all the sudden, a regular G8 sedan hovers at $34k before tax, title, and license. I doubt few shoppers looking for a fairly basic, no frills, RWD sedan, are willing to plunk down $34k for a diesel powered car.

If I'm paying $34k for a G8, it had better be in GT or GXP form!

I think diesel is going to become obsolete for cars and light trucks.

Maybe in the US (isn't it already obsolete for cars in the US since there is only 1), but diesel is a lot cheaper in Europe, mostly due to tax laws but somewhat to refineries setup to maximize diesel production (US ones maximize gasoline typically).

But the rest of the buying public doesn't agree with you.

Lets say for sake of argument, most people that would be interested in a diesel option for the G8, aren't looking at a GT or GXP. They're looking at an upgrade option over the V6 more than anything.

Starting at $27,595, most people opt up in some upgrades for the car. Let's be fair and push that price with those upgrades to $29k. Now lets add a diesel option in at $5k, and now, all the sudden, a regular G8 sedan hovers at $34k before tax, title, and license. I doubt few shoppers looking for a fairly basic, no frills, RWD sedan, are willing to plunk down $34k for a diesel powered car.

If I'm paying $34k for a G8, it had better be in GT or GXP form!

But for the sake of argument I have read that all the upcoming US bound diesels will be in the $1,500-2,500 dollar range for the diesel upgrade (GM is the only one I've read that is going to have such a high price tag, #1 reason they are against any US diesels).

Car used for 100K
Petrol (100000/20x3.5) Say gas at 3.5/gal and you get 20mpg which is what the G8 GT should average.

Diesel(100000/40x4.5) Say diesel 4.5/gal and you get 40 mpg which is what they just tested the BMW 5 series diesel at.

Petrol fuel use=$17,500
Diesel fuel use=$11,250

I guarantee you that any vehicle with 100K miles, the residual of the vehicle will be higher for the diesel also.

So at even a $5k option you would still be saving money.

(check my math/reasoning it's early)

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/23/bmw-520d-beats-prius-in-gas-mileage/

But for the sake of argument I have read that all the upcoming US bound diesels will be in the $1,500-2,500 dollar range for the diesel upgrade (GM is the only one I've read that is going to have such a high price tag, #1 reason they are against any US diesels).

Car used for 100K
Petrol (100000/20x3.5) Say gas at 3.5/gal and you get 20mpg which is what the G8 GT should average.

Diesel(100000/40x4.5) Say diesel 4.5/gal and you get 40 mpg which is what they just tested the BMW 5 series diesel at.

Petrol fuel use=$17,500
Diesel fuel use=$11,250

I guarantee you that any vehicle with 100K miles, the residual of the vehicle will be higher for the diesel also.

So at even a $5k option you would still be saving money.

(check my math/reasoning it's early)

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/23/bmw-520d-beats-prius-in-gas-mileage/

The only thing I would reject is that few people keep their cars for 100,000 miles anymore though. Majority of people keep them 3 - 5 years at best and 5 is pushing it.

Once again, if you plan on keeping the car longer, can justify that initial cash outlay for the vehicle, then absolutely, a diesel option may make sense. But not at nearly $5/gallon for fuel and for something you'll only keep for 3 years and less than 50,000 miles, which is about average.

I dunno - I drive about 25,000 miles a year. I plan on driving mine for 150,000 miles. 4-6 years or so. I have a 5 year 0% loan on it .... I'm in no rush to give back interest free money :)

Same here. I tend to put a lot of mileage on cars too.

But the majority of the buying public doesn't. Part of it is the need to have the latest/greatest version of something, so in three years, the next "fad" will draw them elsewhere, and they'll be trading in the G8 on something else.

So what are you guys telling me? I need to stop dreaming about the dualmode hybrid, duramax+tremec G8 sport wagon??!!

Yup.