I got to looking around and decided to pop the grills out and what I found kinda shocked me. Ok pleasently surprised would be a better description. I was able to look straight up to where the intake snorkles bottom is and thru the inner fender liner to see the front suspension behind the rotors. Hmmmmmm....... This got me thinking so I took a closer look at the grills and saw that the blocked off portions honey combs were deeper then that of the open grill, IDEA STRUCK! I broke out my trusty ole sawsall and cut the deeper portion off the back of the grill there-by opening up the closed off portion which will do 2 things that I can see. #1 its gonna let a CRAP LOAD of air thru to vent the front brakes there-by cooling them down just like the M3 and Corvette's have! And #2 also it'll let cool air up towards the intake snorkle. (NOW opening that little flap up for the snorkle mod will deff let cool air get to the filter.) This mod will work even better with an air intake such as the Rotofab intake cause it opens the whole corner of the grill and turns it into a giant ram air duct! Now I'm DEFF getting the Rotofab. Not sure if this has been done before I didn't see anything on it so mods delete it if it is a repost. if not and anyone needs pics to see what I'm talking about I'll get some up when the rain stops or tomorrow for those interested.

Not sure if this will work on the GXP due to the painted portion of the front bumper between you guys grills and fog lights appears to be where I opened up. Someone with a GXP will have to do some looking around and report back. Hopefully you guys can use it too.

*CLIFF NOTES* remove grills, cut the back off the closed off portion, you now have fully ducted front brakes and a sorce to tap TONS of air for a cold air/ram air intake setup. Enjoy! :gears:
BTW this doesn't effect the cosmetic appearance of the grills.

Someone pointed out a concern as to rain water getting into their and to that I have to say that this is the exact same setup the BMW E46 M3 uses for front brake ducting and as a place to duct for the factory cold air/ram air intake. our air filter sits high enough that all this will do is allow cold air in, rain water would have to REALLY get high up to get to it! If its good enough for a BMW M3 and hasn't ever caused any isses for them then I can't see where this would cause a problem for us either. Hey if its good enough a setup for the M3 then I'm sure our lowly little G8's will be just fine with it. ;)

Wow really, 68 views and not 1 reply? No one likes this idea? Geez. :(

With some of the puddles I was going through last night? Not for me. Especially not if I had one of those side mounts like the Jetttstream that puts the filter way down in that area.

I was worried enough with my OTR setup.:(

Did you happen to take any pictures?

I sugessted this the other day... I'm glad someone desided to actually look into it... off to do some modding...

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showpost.php?p=242800&postcount=34

Sounds like a good idea, have you noticed any improvement in performance with this mod using the stock filter & box? I tried pulling the grill off, it won't budge but didn't want to force it too much as the whole surrounding bumper was pulling out too. Do you have to remove the lower panel to remove the grill? Can you reach & remove the snorkel cut-out from the grill opening? Pics would be good!

With some of the puddles I was going through last night? Not for me. Especially not if I had one of those side mounts like the Jetttstream that puts the filter way down in that area.

I was worried enough with my OTR setup.:(

Unless you are driving through 3 or 4 feet of standing water you have nothing to worry about water getting into the filter.

x2, it take a lot more air movement then our engines create to pull the water up like that. with my rotofab, I would have to be stopped in a foot of water to let it fill in, in there, and still it wouldn't putt the whater up to the filter... it would just choke it out, if no air could get it.

PICS? I can't picture it

picsssssssssssssss

I've heard that doing something like this would possibly create a cooling concern with the engine as you would robbing alot of air from the radiator. When you created a more freely flowing alternative to radiator intake, all of the forced air will flow there.

Again, I am no expert, but it something a mechanic brought up to me and it makes sense. I had considered opening the hood scoops to duct air to the intake and thats when I was warned of the possible side effects. With something such as the M3 or Vette, they are designed with brake vents and thus it would be factored into the 'equation'. In something like this where the car was not necessarily designed (in terms of aerodynamics/ radiator air feed), it seems plausible that it could be harmful.

I am not an expert! It is just something worth looking into. But I could be completely wrong...

PICS? I can't picture it


done... uploading pics now...

Unless you are driving through 3 or 4 feet of standing water you have nothing to worry about water getting into the filter.

Did you even read my post all the way through? I said "especially with a Jetttstream that puts the filter way down in that area". You could even add, "with a snorkel that low" if you want.

With the filter or even a system with a snorkel that reaches down that far, it WILL suck water up if there's no place else to pull air from, i.e. air leaks somewhere else in the system.

All an engine is is a complicated air pump. If it can't get air, it'll suck up anything it can until it stalls out. Enough water can get sucked up the snorkel or through the filter in the blink of an eye to hydro-lock the engine. It's been proven...repeatedly.

And :bs: on the 3 or 4 feet of standing water exaggeration too.:rolleyes: The factory air box is only about 2 ft off the ground.:wink2:

You can create a bow wave with our front end in less than a foot of standing water. Did it myself last night because I got forced into the puddle by a truck coming the other way. Open up that area, put a snorkel or filter at that level and ride the wave into some nice repair bills...I don't care. Have a nut.:dunno:

Pics...
stock...
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/peterg22000/G8/G8GT002.jpg
half out, This is a bitch for those with front plates... but it is possible
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/peterg22000/G8/G8GT005.jpg
Out
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/peterg22000/G8/G8GT006.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/peterg22000/G8/G8GT009-1.jpg
Cutting, I used my band saw.. it JUST fit.. another half inch and it would have been a lot easier.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/peterg22000/G8/G8GT011-1.jpg
after some sanding to clean it al up
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/peterg22000/G8/G8GT016-1.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/peterg22000/G8/G8GT017-1.jpg
On to the car.. the opening.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/peterg22000/G8/G8GT018-1.jpg
a little "fix" to make things look right
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/peterg22000/G8/G8GT019-1.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/peterg22000/G8/G8GT020-1.jpg
Back on and DONE..
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/peterg22000/G8/G8GT022-1.jpg

this was a 30min mod at most.. 15 if you have the same tools and aren't as picky as I am.

The band saw worked great! Perhaps some small mesh screen on the backside to keep debris out. I thought about doing that mod but didn't want to mess it up.
Good job!

Nice work!

Is the space on the other side the same minus the hose?

I don't see why not, I just haven't done it yet.

So is there a noticeable difference with this mod? Did it lower the intake air temp?

you'll have to ask someone else.. I don't have a way to scan IAT as of yet. :P

I was worried enough with my OTR setup.:(

Unless you are driving through 3 or 4 feet of standing water you have nothing to worry about water getting into the filter.

Did you even read my post all the way through? I said "especially with a Jetttstream that puts the filter way down in that area". You could even add, "with a snorkel that low" if you want.

And :bs: on the 3 or 4 feet of standing water exaggeration too.:rolleyes: The factory air box is only about 2 ft off the ground.:wink2:


You said that you were worried enough about water into your OTR setup. He answers that you would need 3 or 4 feet of water to affect YOUR setup. Then you go off with witty remarks and rolling eyes. Nice.:confused:

you'll have to ask someone else.. I don't have a way to scan IAT as of yet. :P
Ok what about my other question, did you notice any increase in power? Maybe I'll just pull the grille out without cutting it, and scan the intake air temp with my Superchips tuner to see if it's any lower.

Thanks for posting up the pics man thats EXACTLY what I did. And if you notice in the pics that the newly opened portion has a divider to seperate it from the air going to the radiator so its in all actuality EXACTLY how the M3's setup works. If you've own one and removed the brake duct caps you know exactly what I'm talking about. If not just do a quick search on your favorite BMW site for the brake duct cap mod and that should clear things up for you. And again the way the M3's drivers side duct works is that it has a "Y" in it allowing some air from the road to be ducted straight up to the bottom of the factory air box. Now with the duct cap in place ALL the air scooped up from the drivers side duct is routed directly to the bottom of the factory air box. Water has never been an issue from puddles or road spray simply cause it can't flow enough air to suck water drops UP a 4 inch duct! As for a puddle when you hit it doesn't the water spray out and BACK? Sure some goes inward but IDK what kind of driving you'd be doing thru how deep a puddle for water to pass the front of the car and then be forced back into the duct and then up more then a foot to the bottom of the factory snorkle! I'd love to see HOW hitting a puddle would cause water to go forward while and then come back into the duct and THEN travel up more then a foot in enough quantity to soak the filter to the point that water is allowed into the engine! Sounds to me like you need to stay away from driving thru a creak there Bo Duke! lol!!


As for performance I also have no way to measue air inlet temps so I can't speak to that part of it but cold air is flowing thru there as fast as you're driving so its GOTTA be getting to the snorkle. As for the brake ducting, this I KNOW helps. The air goes straight back to the inside of the innner fender so air is moving thru the wheels cooling the brakes off.

Ok what about my other question, did you notice any increase in power? Maybe I'll just pull the grille out without cutting it, and scan the intake air temp with my Superchips tuner to see if it's any lower.

I'm interested to see what it does, I await your results.

You said that you were worried enough about water into your OTR setup. He answers that you would need 3 or 4 feet of water to affect YOUR setup. Then you go off with witty remarks and rolling eyes. Nice.:confused:

He did not say YOUR setup. He could've been talking about mine or he could've been addressing the part about "one of those side mounts like the Jetttstream that puts the filter way down in that area."

Either way, have you looked at our cars? 3-4 feet of standing water would flood the interior much less any filter setup. Even moving through less than 2 feet of water is enough to force a wave up the radiator and into the NEP. Last night when I hit that puddle there was water coming up over the hood...and the puddle was less than a foot deep. Of course, when you hit it at 40+ mph(slowing down from ~55) it'll tend to do that.:(

Which brings us back to my point. You accidentally hit more than a few inches of water while moving with that area open AND a low mounted filter or snorkel and the car will be drinking it. That's why I said I wouldn't do it on my car.

Like I said, you want to do it, have a nut.

nice job

Ok what about my other question, did you notice any increase in power? Maybe I'll just pull the grille out without cutting it, and scan the intake air temp with my Superchips tuner to see if it's any lower.


I'll be honest, I didn't really notice much (I hadn't yet driven the car when you asked before) I had the car out tonight, the car drove great and felt great on highway overtaking, but I can't claim massive improvments... but like was already stated, more cool are is now getting in, which is better then no air getting in..

As for the guy talking about driving threw a tone of water, the way fluid dynamics work, as long as you didn't STOP to let the water fill the cavity, you would have no concern... the water can excape just as fast as it gets in without building up to make it up to the snorkle..

one other thing, you can take a filter and place it half under water and run the car, it will still pull AIR and no water, it will just pull it from the half that is still open..
if you don't like this mod.. you will HATE where the APS twin turbos get there air from... and in the years they have been around they havent had an issue or had to re design the system...

If it does allow the intake to get cooler air, you will notice it the most when the outside temp is over 80 degrees. When the IAT reaches 95 degrees the motor starts pulling timing.

I would bet it can't hurt in reducing intake temps but how much? Without some testing and logging who knows.

As far as brake cooling it will have little to no effect without proper ducting mated to a properly designed and ducted rotor backing plate shield. Now if someone wants to take the time to fab up the bits to do this it would have a much greater effect but on a street driven car it's not worth the effort unless your going to track the car regularly and run it hard. Did this on my STi Brembos and at the end of a 20 min session they were as fade free as the start of the session. Additional cooling, 2 piece rotors, good fluid and pads made for a built proof setup. Will be looking to do the same with my GXP as soon as the suspension is sorted out. On the GXP I am thinking will just have to delete the fogs or duct from underneath.

I wonder how well this would work piping it to the bottom of the Volant air box? The Volant appears to have a 3" opening on the bottom in the same area that the Rotofab has a triangle. Doing this would not completly seal the box because you do still have the open scoop under the headlight. :dunno:

3801 Thanks to M.S. for photo..

Where does the stock air box snorkel pull air from and how does this mod improve on that pathway?

Very nice!!

Where does the stock air box snorkel pull air from and how does this mod improve on that pathway?

the stock box pulls its air from up here,
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/peterg22000/P1000376.jpg
this mod would not help a car with a Stock box or OTR intake, but any other style should benifit

nice write up and pics. I simply took a large drill bit, and drilled most of the honeycomb holes out.

I may yank the grill and do that though.

thanks!!!!!

Where does the stock air box snorkel pull air from and how does this mod improve on that pathway?

The stock snorkle is connected to the inside of the front bumper and draws air in from there. Now where the bumper has the opening for it to get the air in the first place I couldn't tell you without removing my whole front end and thats not something I'm prepaired to do. But when you combine the snorkle mod where you cut that little fiber piece out and then open the grill up it can now pull air from behind the grill as it passes thru toward the inner fender liner to aid in brake cooling.

As for this not helping cool the brakes at all due to it not haveing a backing plate ducted directly to it, my answer to this is if it has no effect to duct brakes like this then why would BMW have ducted the E46 M3 this way? Same thing with the Corvette, sorry but the more air you can flow accross the rotors and calipers the cooler they will be. Sure a backing plate with the duct work would be the best, but this type of setup is good enough for an M3 and a Vette then IMHO our G8 should be just fine with it too.

the stock box pulls its air from up here,
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a394/peterg22000/P1000376.jpg
this mod would not help a car with a Stock box or OTR intake, but any other style should benifit


Do the factory snorkle mod and it'll get aome air from there too. But for the biggest difference yes an after market intake would be best that would allow more cold air to be drawn in from the newly opened duct.

always wondered...thanks!

I like this idea, but have to wonder why it wasn't done this way from the factory. Can anyone think of a reason these would be closed off? Maybe no need with the way the stock airbox draws air?

I like this idea, but have to wonder why it wasn't done this way from the factory. Can anyone think of a reason these would be closed off? Maybe no need with the way the stock airbox draws air?

well like you said with a factory box design, this area being open is useless mostly, and they try to keep both sides looking te same, doing it on the other side is 100% usless... untill ducts are put in for the breaks.

also there is the fact that you would then see the pluming/hoses back there (why I painted them black)


thats all I can think of.

for those that are conserned about flooding or water sitting in there, here is a simple solution:

Do the lower panel mod, just not a huge hole. Take a drill bit and drill 3 or 4 holes evenly spaced out, so any water that may be sitting in there would drain right out those holes. Even if you somehow managed to drive through a creek/river/swamp/pool/ocean/brook/aquarium the water wouldn't sit in there, it would drain out.

Very nice mod by the way guys, very nice. I may do that but put a black mess grill behind to keep debris such as bugs or anything like that.

for those that are conserned about flooding or water sitting in there, here is a simple solution:

Do the lower panel mod, just not a huge hole. Take a drill bit and drill 3 or 4 holes evenly spaced out, so any water that may be sitting in there would drain right out those holes. Even if you somehow managed to drive through a creek/river/swamp/pool/ocean/brook/aquarium the water wouldn't sit in there, it would drain out.

Very nice mod by the way guys, very nice. I may do that but put a black mess grill behind to keep debris such as bugs or anything like that.

that would't be requiered anyway, there are a TON of places for water to drain out. there is no way water would stay in there.

that would't be requiered anyway, there are a TON of places for water to drain out. there is no way water would stay in there.

A ton may be an exageration but I'd go along with at least 1800 pounds. ;) Seriously Unless you drive thru a creek or 2 feet of standing water I can't see you ever having a problem.

Just did this mod with a crosscut saw (!) and it turned out fine. My Volant shipped Friday; I can't wait to test both mods.
Bill

Did this...have not had anny issues yet...I do have a ROTO FAB cai

bump

To those that have done this mod. Is it possible to replace fog-light bulbs after lower grilles have been removed (popped out)? Thanks

To those that have done this mod. Is it possible to replace fog-light bulbs after lower grilles have been removed (popped out)? Thanks


I never thought to check, but thinking about it, I don't believe there is anything blocking the back side of the fog light once you have the grill pulled.

So would this or would this not help if i got the stock intake?

So would this or would this not help if i got the stock intake?

It'll let air in for your brakes.

Nice article but Comment and Question. Dude, put suspension parts on your Christmas list!!!!! Secondly, any concern about grasshoppers down low when traveling west?

So would this or would this not help if i got the stock intake?

it would not help with a stock intake.

Anyone figure out performance increases, temp benefits yet?

Several months ago, a simular thread was going around. Someone came on and said he (his wife) sucked up some water......engine siezed. As I remember warranty did replace it. Vector said they tested factory setup to over 500 hp.......Just FYI. Still seems like a good idea to me, JUST STAY OUT OF THE WATER!

If I recall, the intake involved in that was an OTR...

I cant think of any weather condition that I havent driven through, and I have had NO issue of ANY sort.

as for performance/temp improvments, they're both there, but not big gains... but hell, its a free mod, so minor gains are still ok.

I did this mod a long time ago and there is no more chance of sucking water from this than right off the ground. This doesn't magically give you ducted brakes, either. It opens up a spot that you can run a duct from if you want that for your front brakes.

Andy

dont waste your time cutting, just get these stick on ones, not only do they give you more airflow they also increase hp cause they are carbon fiber YO, its like v-tec for a GM car

http://www.uxsight.com/product/images/c/en/decorative-fender-port-holes-side-vents-car-air-flow-xs0019090603c.jpg

Anyone figure out performance increases, temp benefits yet?

I may try this as I want to get some cooler air into the snorkel on my RotoFab. Right now it takes several minutes for the cooler air to work its way in. Scans of OTRs show an almost immediate cool down. The downside there (IMO) was I didn't want to keep cleaning the filter every month with an OTR.

In 100F weather the IAT quickly goes to up 108, after 30 minutes of freeway driving it will get close to what the dash indicates. I'm surprised it doesn't drop quicker considering I have the HSRK. I don't have the block off plate, but will probably add it during the next oil change. I have had this mod for over a year and haven't had any water issues.

i gave this a try with a few extras with fantasic results
http://img6.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/5847/5847968b28bfd2d99550ce8e85387edd21c0fce.jpg
http://img4.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/5847/58479713788c7a2b90e362c50976737927fa75b.jpg

Only negative I would see is for those running top speed runs. This would create some front end lift.