Looks like there's plenty of room for a strut tower brace under the hood. I'd be surprised if our friends down under don't have a source.

Does anyone have any info?

Looks like there's plenty of room for a strut tower brace under the hood. I'd be surprised if our friends down under don't have a source.

Does anyone have any info?

I was wondering the same

How come every year or two vehicles frames become more and more rigid, yet people still want Strut Tower Braces? Isn't today's frame without a STB already better than the frame of something from say 8-10 years ago with a STB? I guess things can always be improved upon huh?

What are the actual benefits of having a Strut Tower Brace?

They prevent the strut towers from flexing under hard cornering.
Basically.

Cool, thanks!

It's going to be tricky getting a strut tower brace out to the masses but we're working on it.

Unfortunately there isn't anywhere to put it on with out drilling or welding into the chassis.

and yes the chassis is very stiff as it is, but you can never really be too stiff.

Thanks
Mike Haddad

in reply about strut braces your best bet is to try whiteline suspension in oz or try pedders in australia. cheers from one proud owner of a ss ute or g8 st. in oz:attachment:

do you own a g8 yet

makes the towers from walking around literally i have seen them on early model commodores do

Unfortunately there isn't anywhere to put it on with out drilling or welding

ouch

Unfortunately there isn't anywhere to put it on with out drilling or welding into the chassis.

Thanks
Mike Haddad
Really? During my cursory glance under the hood I thought I noticed the strut bolts protruding through the strut towers. Guess I need to have another look.

Come to think of it, when I installed a KBR strut tower brace on my '89 Mustang GT, I recall that I had to drill two holes on both strut towers for the mounting bolts. That brace also attached to the firewall so I had to drill two more holes there as well.

It wasn't a big deal, though - I think it took me something like an hour to do with regular hand tools, a drill and a good bit.

pedders has already started the process. I can tell you, the G8 does need a strut tower brace if driven in a sporty manner.

will take some time, but we are working on it
mike
dms

pedders has already started the process. I can tell you, the G8 does need a strut tower brace if driven in a sporty manner.

will take some time, but we are working on it
mike
dms

So, are you guys going to use a hollow or solid bar? may I suggest the hollow for strength and weight.

Keep us informed as many of us will be loyal customers.

Having put 800 miles on my G8 GT to date, I'm thinking that there really is no reason to put a strut tower brace on this car. It feels solid as a rock.

My 1989 Mustang GT, which I alluded to in an earlier post, was so loose up front that you could actually see the whole front end dancing when you drove over pavement that was the least bit choppy. I added a strut tower brace, a K-frame brace (under the tranny) and frame rails (tied the front and rear suspension subframes together). It made an amazing difference in the car's manners.

But this G8 would never need any of that unless the suspension were being tuned for track-only use.

Having put 800 miles on my G8 GT to date, I'm thinking that there really is no reason to put a strut tower brace on this car. It feels solid as a rock.

My 1989 Mustang GT, which I alluded to in an earlier post, was so loose up front that you could actually see the whole front end dancing when you drove over pavement that was the least bit choppy. I added a strut tower brace, a K-frame brace (under the tranny) and frame rails (tied the front and rear suspension subframes together). It made an amazing difference in the car's manners.

But this G8 would never need any of that unless the suspension were being tuned for track-only use.

On hard driving, there is movement, especially the left front tower, in the strut tower. We can tell by movement in the left. So you may not feel it, and it is definately stronger than the old mustangs, without a doubt. But if you are going to drive it hard and play, you will want a strut tower brace!

mike
dms

On hard driving, there is movement, especially the left front tower, in the strut tower. We can tell by movement in the left. So you may not feel it, and it is definately stronger than the old mustangs, without a doubt. But if you are going to drive it hard and play, you will want a strut tower brace!

mike
dms
OK, then - and I do like to play!

I'm looking forward to seeing the product.

On hard driving, there is movement, especially the left front tower, in the strut tower. We can tell by movement in the left. So you may not feel it, and it is definately stronger than the old mustangs, without a doubt. But if you are going to drive it hard and play, you will want a strut tower brace!

If I can't feel it do I really need something to prevent it? How much movement was there? How was it measured? Are you guys designing a curved or straight bar? Will it tie into the firewall?

Bumping this thread for information and link.

http://wretchedmotorsports.com/product_info.php?cPath=62_100_107&products_id=406&osCsid=612d75df673162774e18a9cb86835eea

Has anyone installed one of these or are there other options? Just a new guy asking questions, no affiliation to any vendors.

Bumping this thread for information and link.

http://wretchedmotorsports.com/product_info.php?cPath=62_100_107&products_id=406&osCsid=612d75df673162774e18a9cb86835eea

Has anyone installed one of these or are there other options? Just a new guy asking questions, no affiliation to any vendors.

there has been a couple of dozen sold all over the USA

mike
dms

OK---does it require drilling or welding?

OK---does it require drilling or welding?

Struts have to come out or at least be dropped out of the way then holes drilled and installed. Not for the faint of heart... :(

I have one and yes it's not for the faint of heart. Messed mine up a bit because I can't follow directions after a couple Guiness. Read about it here:

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4848

The bar was worth it though and does make the car feel stiffer up front under cornering load.

--Mike

Pedders Strut Bar Installation Instructions:

#1 Read Directions
#2 Install Bar
#3 Open Bar and Skull a few Guinness
# Never Open Bar or Guinness BEFORE Completing Steps #1 & #2

Pedders Strut Bar Installation Instructions:

#1 Read Directions
#2 Install Bar
#3 Open Bar and Skull a few Guinness
# Never Open Bar or Guinness BEFORE Completing Steps #1 & #2

You mean the directions don't go in desending order? ;)
:drink: 3, 2, 1

Alls well that ends well. I love the bar and all of the other Pedders parts. Well worth the $$$

--Mike

Alls well that ends well. I love the bar and all of the other Pedders parts. Well worth the $$$

--MikeThat is true of both Guinness and Pedders.

Hi all, I am from Australia and we have had 2 years experience with this chassis. I can confirm that there is absolutely no need to fit a strut brace. This car is very stiff and was modelled on the BMW 5 series. The BMW is renown for its stiffness and the Commodore/G8 chassis is even stiffer than the 5 series. The previous models (GTO) had a glued in firewall, hence needed a brace. However, I repeat that there is no need to fit any brace to this G8 model. Pedders are well known over here for talking up so called problems!! I see that manual G8s have yet to arrive in the USA. When they do, you will notice that tramp is a real issue. Not really noticable in the auto G8, but is a big problem in the manual versions. The rear void fillers solve most of the problem and are recommended ... stiffer diff mounts make very little difference so save your money and don't bother with them.

I see that you have yet to discover the OTR .... they are way better than the pod setups (try 15kw gain compared to 6 kw). I look forward to following your progress on this very good forum.

I repeat that there is no need to fit any brace to this G8 model.

As I have written before, the VE is one of the strongest monocoques in the market. The new CTS is stronger in some respects. Some inside GM feel the G8 to be stronger and others the CTS while I'll step up and say the new ZETA II Camaro is stronger than either one. Regardless the Riley Tech built and GM Racing developed GS Camaro will sport a strut tower bar.

I know. I worked with GM on the project.

I put it on because it looks awesome with it!
So.....there IS a reason. I love it when someone with 2 posts comes on the bash a vendor.

G8 Ray .... the difference is that I do not have a vested interest! Have you noticed any difference after fitting the brace? Have you done specific "before" and after" tests to quantify any improvement? This model is raced in Australia in various forms ...from the "Utes" to full on "V8Supercars" and neither class runs, nor needs, a strut brace. Your money is best spent on stiffening the rear subframe with void fillers (should be your first mod) and getting better roll control with sway bars .... the front bar one is hard to fit though. Good springs to use are the Eibachs ...they have a great progressive spring rate to give a nice ride on normal road surfaces with a harder rate at larger spring movements to give more control in roll and over large bumps. The main thing to watch out for is that lowering the G8 will bring the bump stops extremely close. This applies to the rear too ... not much spring travel anyway so lowering should be done with caution. The Pedders method of specifying ride height is strange ...best to measure from the wheel centre (center as you spell it!) to the guard. It is simple to do and overcomes any descrepancies with using different wheel sizes. Done this way, any lower than 360mm front and 355mm rear is going to severely compromise the spring travel remaining. If you hit the bump stops mid corner, you can get a sudden slide. Large amounts of lowering should be done using the Teins or Pedders fully adjustable struts that can maintain decent spring travel. Both are a massive overkill for road cars though ...really only for the occasional circuit racers.

Great to see people having a go at improving the car ...all good fun.

Excellent posts, Aussie - thanks!

Can you talk a little more about "stiffening the rear subframe with void fillers?" :driving:

Excellent posts, Aussie - thanks!

Can you talk a little more about "stiffening the rear subframe with void fillers?" :driving:

This is what the Pedders rear X-member bushing kit does. The OE bushings have large voids in them. The Pedders bushings actuall fill these voids to give a much more secure x-member to chassis connection. It is the best bang for the buck you can do for the G8 suspension. You can do it yourself if you know your way around cars.

The void fillers are shown in the Pedders thread. The photo attached shows the void bushes and shows the Tein adjustable struts too. The rear subframe holds the diff and suspension arms and mounts to the "chassis" in four spots. The std mounts have rubber bushes that use holes, or voids, in them to stop noise being transmitted to the cabin. The down side is that these voids squish up when under load ..cornering mainly. This results in the rear end giving a feeling of instability, particularly as you come off a corner. The bushes are made of polyurethane and simply fill up the voids giving a more solid mount. Note that there are also some flat pieces that sit horizontally on the mounts to take up slack in vertical movement; these also replace the std rubber ones. Simple to fit provided you can get the car in the air ... the metal caps on each mount are hard to lever off so you need a bit of room. Just a matter of dropping the frame down and slipping in the void bushes in the top and bottom of each of the four mounts.

The photo shows some "Superpro" bushes, much the same as Pedders only a fraction softer and a bit cheaper. The Teins adjustable struts are a good unit, similar to the Pedders units ...expensive but useful if you do any circuit racing as they have adjustable shocker rates as well as adjustable ride height. The other bush shown is for the front "castor" arms. They are only useful for circuit sprints and stop the front end walking around under heavy braking. Not really needed for street use though.

Does anyone have photos of a front sway bar removal? Looks to be a tricky job with the subframe in the way.

I put it on because it looks awesome with it!
So.....there IS a reason. I love it when someone with 2 posts comes on the bash a vendor.

The Aussie posted that there was no "need". Your post seems to confirm that.
I love it when ANYone posts factual info regarding the chassis, esp. those from down under, as they have had more time to work out the kinks.

As far as your love of Pedders, they do sell a great product, with excellent support! Two things to consider: 1. not all of thier stuff belongs on every car and 2. they are the only game in town
Play nice...:slap:

No good photos but it was required that the front cradle be dropped and even then we needed to remove one of the rods connected to the bottom of the spindle. The old bar came out without needing to remove the rod once the cradle was dropped but the bigger ends used for adjustment on the Pedders bar would not clear with the radius rod ( I think that was the one) in place. Walt may have dropped both, RR and tie rod, just to be done with it.

Thanks for the feed back Aussie.

Thanks, Aussie. :)

G8 Ray .... the difference is that I do not have a vested interest! Have you noticed any difference after fitting the brace? Have you done specific "before" and after" tests to quantify any improvement? This model is raced in Australia in various forms ...from the "Utes" to full on "V8Supercars" and neither class runs, nor needs, a strut brace. Your money is best spent on stiffening the rear subframe with void fillers (should be your first mod) and getting better roll control with sway bars .... the front bar one is hard to fit though. Good springs to use are the Eibachs ...they have a great progressive spring rate to give a nice ride on normal road surfaces with a harder rate at larger spring movements to give more control in roll and over large bumps. The main thing to watch out for is that lowering the G8 will bring the bump stops extremely close. This applies to the rear too ... not much spring travel anyway so lowering should be done with caution. The Pedders method of specifying ride height is strange ...best to measure from the wheel centre (center as you spell it!) to the guard. It is simple to do and overcomes any descrepancies with using different wheel sizes. Done this way, any lower than 360mm front and 355mm rear is going to severely compromise the spring travel remaining. If you hit the bump stops mid corner, you can get a sudden slide. Large amounts of lowering should be done using the Teins or Pedders fully adjustable struts that can maintain decent spring travel. Both are a massive overkill for road cars though ...really only for the occasional circuit racers.

Great to see people having a go at improving the car ...all good fun.

Aussie, since you now have 4 posts, I'm sure you haven't had time to read most of the board yet.
I got picked for the $200 dollar give a way by Wretched Motorsports. Ironically, the $200 had to be spent on Pedder's bits. I chose the strut tower bar to dress up my engine bay. I already have the Pedders Street II suspension, which DID make a difference in my handling.
Thanks for playing. :)

The Aussie posted that there was no "need". Your post seems to confirm that.
I love it when ANYone posts factual info regarding the chassis, esp. those from down under, as they have had more time to work out the kinks.

As far as your love of Pedders, they do sell a great product, with excellent support! Two things to consider: 1. not all of thier stuff belongs on every car and 2. they are the only game in town
Play nice...:slap:

You are right. I stand corrected. :slap:

You can discuss the fine points of whether you need or want a STB. It is subjective.

The G8 has a pretty Grrrr8 chassis and it is plenty stiff. IMHO, the stock bushes are pretty compliant (soft) and they take a lot of the deflection forces caused by hard cornering. The Pedders bushes are much less soft and will pass a higher portion of these deflection forces to the chassis. The increased forces reaching the chassis place extra demands on it. The fact that the chaasis is pretty stiff makes all this work together really well. Is the chassis stiff enough? IMO, yes for most drivers and uses. Can a STB make it stiffer? IMO, yes. Is a stiffer chassis bad? IMO, no, if you have a good suspension system under it.

If enough is good, is too much better? IMO, yes and not only yes, but yes.

Do I need a hi quality 2000 watt amp in the trunk? IMO, no. Is a 2000 watt amp better than a high quality 200 watt amp. IMO, yes. If I want it and don't use all of it, is it still better than a 200 watt amp. IMO, yes. Is it a waste of money? IMO, no, not if having it is what makes you happy.

So, do most people need a STB for the G8? IMO, no. Does it make the G8 better? IMO, yes. Do you have to use it to make the G8 better? IMO, no.

It should be the last suspension upgrade you add unless you want it mostly for looks. Nothing wrong with that.

I ran my Track II setup without the sway bar udgrades for 6 weeks until they came in from Oz. I added the bars and the STB at the same time. The changes from stock to Track II are amazing. Adding the sway bar upgrade and STB took it even further.

At my age, anytime I can get stiffer, it is good thing!

I'm in agreement with G8V8. I added my STB before my Track II suspension and I could feel the difference at the limit during autocrossing or when really pushing the car hard on tight corners. The car feels slightly stiffer in front. Do you need the bar? No. Does it make a difference at the extreme? Yes. I am happy with it and I believe it was a good addition to the car, especially now that I have the Track II suspension. I doubt that most will need the bar other than for looks, but if you push your car hard it is nice to have even if not necessary. My .02

--Mike