MSRP 33690 - G8GT Premium Sport

Dealer selling price 32989 less rebates of 1000 loyalty, 3000 pontiac, 3000 GM CARD UPGRADE BONUSPOINTS...

32989
-1000
-3000
-3000


25989 plus TTL

what do youi all think ???

these 3000 points you are talking about must be $1 per point it appears.

From everything thing I have read on here, GM is only allowing 1 grand in GM points/ bucks/ rewards. Or however you want to call it.

If that they are letting you use it that is great.

But with the number you quoted. They are basically just fudging the numbers. They could come off way more on the price initially.

I got my 09 about 2 weeks ago and I got it for $26,100 w/ no GM card incentative. Does the loyality rebate mean you owned a GM already, because I didn't get that either.. So in theory you should get this for around $22,100. But what they are doing is not coming off the price before all the GM rebates etc.

Which by the way is total crap -- because GM is going to cut them that check for loyality, cash rebate, and GM points/ dollars. So basically they actually making out quite good on the deal.

But again, I highly doubt GM will let you use all 3K.

I know but I got a coupon in the mail today that was GM CARD TOP OFF

http://www.g8board.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3906&stc=1&d=1243651433

"*Bonus Earnings are available on the purchase or lease of an eligible, new and unused 2008 or 2009 GM vehicle, excluding Chevy Kodiak, Chevy Corvette ZR1, GMC TopKick and Cadillac CTS-V. Take retail delivery from dealer stock between 5/28/09 and 6/30/09, and GM Card Bonus Earnings can be used above applicable GM Card program limits. This Bonus Earnings offer cannot be combined with other Bonus Earnings offers, with the GM Employee, Supplier or Dealership Employee Discount or with other GM reward card Accounts. Bonus Earnings are nontransferable. Only one Bonus Earnings offer per Account."

So how did you get your price without the GM card action ?? The Thought of this for 22,xxx$ is overwhelming , maybe NINO can me on this?

Where did you get the GM card upgrade bonus points? Did it just come in the mail?

I am dealing on a 2009 G8 GT right now as well and I can only use $1,000, $3,000 would seal the deal...

yo ahad! Log into your manage your earnings on the website gmcard.com

if you got the coupon you'll see what I have...posted above...picture wise.

I know but I got a coupon in the mail today that was GM CARD TOP OFF

http://www.g8board.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3906&stc=1&d=1243651433

So how did you get your price without the GM card action ?? The Thought of this for 22,xxx$ is overwhelming , maybe NINO can me on this?

A. Didn't you see what I paid before all these GM rebates that didn't apply to me. See my point, The dealer knows you are getting a great deal from GM, which they get as kick backs to help them sell the car. So they are getting kick backs from GM and, they aren't coming off the MSRP very much. They would absolutely love to seal the deal for that price (IF GM, gives you all the rebates/incentives they have) so the dealer isn't giving you a good deal off the MSRP.

B. 3000, good toward most GM vehicles. Key phrase is "most". I would check into it.

Did that there is nothing there. I searched all over the site to see. I called HSBC and they tried to transfer me to the redemption dept. but they are closed and will not be open again until Monday morning...

Yeh, i see he is not coming off MSRP much that is why I underlined it. What were the official pontiac rebate when you bought yours ?

I PM-ede NINO on this so we'll see what the insider has to say.

Til then....i dunno.

I get to use all $4500 of mine.

Did that there is nothing there. I searched all over the site to see. I called HSBC and they tried to transfer me to the redemption dept. but they are closed and will not be open again until Monday morning...

If you don't see it you don't have it. There is no ryhme or reason to how GM gives it out ?? I am looking forward to what Nino has to say.

So how did you get your price without the GM card action ?? The Thought of this for 22,xxx$ is overwhelming , maybe NINO can me on this?

I did nothing really. I told them I was quoted by Nino a price under 28K. They did 27,900. But then I talked them to over pay for my trade in.

KBB was 12,200 (and that is being generous with the problems my truck had)-- and they were going to match kbb, but then, went to 13 then 13.5, and with-in 10 minutes of me saying the color wasn't my top three choices, and I may just drive down to see Nino. They gave me 14K for my truck.

Air bag light on, check engine light on, needed a new front bumper (big dent), rear dvd didn't work, rear back up sensors didn't work, 77K miles (04 Nissan Titan) Body was in Fair condition at best. Tires wouldn't pass inspection ... and I got $1800 over KBB. (when other dealers where quoting around10K..

so $27,900 (3k already taken off) - $1800 of obvious overpayment of my truck = 26,100.

Haggled all of about 45 minutes. If you can even calling it haggling. They were practically begging me to buy the car.


So 26,100 was my price (only GM rebate I got was 3000) I think (I may have had another 500 for something I honestly can't remember)

so $27,900 (3k already taken off) - $1800 of obvious overpayment of my truck = 26,100.

yeh, there you go.

If you don't see it you don't have it. There is no ryhme or reason to how GM gives it out ?? I am looking forward to what Nino has to say.


that sucks for me

so $27,900 (3k already taken off) - $1800 of obvious overpayment of my truck = 26,100.

yeh, there you go.


Thanks for the cliff notes.

My point is, I didnt get the 1k loyalty, or the 3K GM points.

so take my price 26,100 - 4k = 22,100.

Good luck-- You will never get it for 22,100.

Hell someone just traded in a GT with 7k miles on it for a new GXP, and they gave him around 24K for it.
Hard for GM to buy a used car for 24K that they can sell new for theoretically 22K.

If you get 25K + TTL I would say that is a good deal.

OK, Thanks for replyin'

Looks like the best deal here would be ( UNLESS YOU TRADE IN LIKE JRC and include that in )

34,355MSRP Price: http://www.carsdirect.com/build/options?zipcode=08844&acode=USB90POC191B0&restore=false add sport and premium

get it for invioce= 33,292$


33,292.00
-3000 pontiac
-1000 loyalty
-3000 gm card ( if applicable )

26,292 $


or 29292 for 72mo at 0

get it for invioce= 33,292$


33,292.00
-3000 pontiac
-1000 loyalty
-3000 gm card ( if applicable )

26,292 $


or 29292 for 72mo at 0

Actually would be $30,292 for 72mo, as you don't get loyalty cash either if you take the finance offer.

good point thanks

Looks like the best deal here would be ( UNLESS YOU TRADE IN LIKE JRC and include that in )

34,355MSRP Price: http://www.carsdirect.com/build/options?zipcode=08844&acode=USB90POC191B0&restore=false add sport and premium

get it for invioce= 33,292$


33,292.00
-3000 pontiac
-1000 loyalty
-3000 gm card ( if applicable )

26,292 $


or 29292 for 72mo at 0

Let me be the first to say. I always check carsdirect.com for the "best deal" and I have bought alot of new cars in my time.
But with Pontiac being a dead brand, and GM with their major problems, and dealers knowing they are closing. etc... You can kill carsdirect prices.

Cars direct said the same thing for me.


It seems to many people are focusing on my trade in thing.

Before the trade I got the car for 27,900
stick was 33,600 (I think)

33,600- 3000 (GM rebate) = 30,600.
I paid 27,900

so they took off $2700 on top of the rebate.

Now think about my trade in. $1800
= a total of 4500 off from dealer (ON TOP OF THE 3K from GM)

the reason I can say the 1800 was off the car, because no one in town, was willing to give me near KBB. but they went 1800 over KBB. so, It was obviously another way of taking money off the car.

Dealers do it all the time, they "give you more for your trade in" but really it isn't worth it, so they are basically just taking if the price of the car.


I am sorry to repeat myself. I just feel like no one is getting it.


Laslty, If you can get a similar deal that I got. then GM gives the other incentives, that should put you much lower than 25.9K that you listed.

If I confused anyone or annoyed anyone I am sorry..

Trust me. talk to Nino-- or review some of his latest threads.

He is taking way more off MSRP than carsdirect is saying (before any GM/ rebates/ points, etc)

Its a new top off program that just started for GM Card holders.

You will have to recieve a letter in the mail with a code on it and it will basically top off whatever money you have on your GM card to 1000 2000 or 3000

A guy yesterday had 188 bucks on his card and got topped off to 2000.

Its a new top off program that just started for GM Card holders.

You will have to recieve a letter in the mail with a code on it and it will basically top off whatever money you have on your GM card to 1000 2000 or 3000

A guy yesterday had 188 bucks on his card and got topped off to 2000.

So Nino-- am I right/ he could be paying less if he has 1K loyality + 3K GM card money.

Bottom line, he needs to negotiate the very best price on the car he can before the rebates, and GM card money should be mentioned after that point. Because they are taking only about 700 bucks off MSRP for this guy.. And that is a complete joke for a dead brand like Pontiac.

So Nino-- am I right/ he could be paying less if he has 1K loyality + 3K GM card money.

Bottom line, he needs to negotiate the very best price on the car he can before the rebates, and GM card money should be mentioned after that point. Because they are taking only about 700 bucks off MSRP for this guy.. And that is a complete joke for a dead brand like Pontiac.


Please don't say things like that.

I agree, the deal on the car could be alot better, but not because Pontiac is being phased out, just because there is more room than that.

Please don't say things like that.

I agree, the deal on the car could be alot better, but not because Pontiac is being phased out, just because there is more room than that.

sorry man, I guess you may alittle sensitive to that. I love my PONTIAC so that isn't a slam.

Everyone has an opinion, and everyone knows the facts.

Fact- Pontiac is a dead brand and GM is hurting financially right now.

Opinion- Combining those two facts, is making them quite abit less desirable to the average car buyer (non G8 enthusiast), thus you can expect much more off MSRP than 700 bucks.

So I combined fact and opinion and made a simple statement.

To the OP:

Don't confuse yourself with irrelevant things that other people are mentioning like trade-in. What someone got for their trade-in is a totally subjective experience. Here how I would negotiate with the dealer keeping in mind most of them have the same incentives:

1. Negotiate the best price without using any incentives. If you can find a early 2009 prior to price increase that has a MSRP of $33,600 with sport/premium, a negotiated price of $32,000 shouldn't be that unreasonable.

2. At that point in time apply all available incentives. The latest incentives to the best of my knowledge should be $3000 rebate, $1000 loyalty, and $500 dealer cash. There was a big Pontiac ad (non-dealer specific) in Friday's Detroit Free Press that advertised all 3.

3. Apply your GM card top-off on top of that. If the dealer tries to play games with you at this point in time, walk away. There is nothing unusual about this, and the discounts are not mutually exclusive with the exception of 0% financing that negates the rebate and lease loyalty.

The math should look something like this:

$32000
- $3000
- $1000
- $500
- $3000
= $24,500

I think you can get this done no problem. As a matter of fact Nino is selling a GT with Sport/Premium for $26,995. If you bought from him using your GM card points you would get the car for < $24,000.

To the OP:

Don't confuse yourself with irrelevant things that other people are mentioning like trade-in. What someone got for their trade-in is a totally subjective experience. Here how I would negotiate with the dealer keeping in mind most of them have the same incentives:

1. Negotiate the best price without using any incentives. If you can find a early 2009 prior to price increase that has a MSRP of $33,600 with sport/premium, a negotiated price of $32,000 shouldn't be that unreasonable.

2. At that point in time apply all available incentives. The latest incentives to the best of my knowledge should be $3000 rebate, $1000 loyalty, and $500 dealer cash. There was a big Pontiac ad (non-dealer specific) in Friday's Detroit Free Press that advertised all 3.

3. Apply your GM card top-off on top of that. If the dealer tries to play games with you at this point in time, walk away. There is nothing unusual about this, and the discounts are not mutually exclusive with the exception of 0% financing that negates the rebate and lease loyalty.

The math should look something like this:

$32000
- $3000
- $1000
- $500
- $3000
= $24,500

I think you can get this done no problem. As a matter of fact Nino is selling a GT with Sport/Premium for $26,995. If you bought from him using your GM card points you would get the car for < $24,000.

I highlighted your two points - because we are saying the same thing.. The trade in thing shouldn't be confusing at all.. But for argument sake lets not even talk about my trade in.

Sticker was 33,600
- 3000 GM rebate.
30,600.
but I only paid 27,900?

So that means 2700 bucks came off the MSRP after the 3k rebate. What is so hard about understanding that. So saying them giving him an offer of only 700 off MSRP is not a deal at all.

You second point I highlighted was perfect.. See how low these cars are going for before any GM card bonus points/ loyality cash.

All I am trying to say is the first deal that the OP said was not a good one.

Nino can kill that deal, I got a killer deal, and many others have.

REMEMBER I didn't factor anything about my trade in on these numbers this time. and still got 2700 off MSRP before rebates!

I am the OP , cool :)

Thanks for the action breakdown camo !!!! helps alot You too jrc1122 !! I appreciate you efforts to assist me !!

I am going to pm with NINO, for <24k I WILL BUY THE CAR, If I keep it for 5 years that would be

No problem man, Nino is a great guy. The main reason I pursued buying one, was his posted deals. And the only reason I didn't buy from him specifically is, because it was a 14 hr round trip.

but I only paid 27,900?


Man, I wish I could find a deal like that around here. It would be in my driveway right now. It seems the local dealerships would rather have the cars sit on their lot. Talked to one today where the car had been there since the end of February and they wouldn't take anything extra off. Wanted 29.4 and told me he would have to talk to his sales manager on Monday to get any discounts. Yeah, thanks.

Man, I wish I could find a deal like that around here. It would be in my driveway right now. It seems the local dealerships would rather have the cars sit on their lot. Talked to one today where the car had been there since the end of February and they wouldn't take anything extra off. Wanted 29.4 and told me he would have to talk to his sales manager on Monday to get any discounts. Yeah, thanks.

The deals are out there you just have to find them.

What state are you in. do a search. find the car, ask all of them for the best deal.. And then ask the closer dealer to match it.

I hope it works out.

In my favor is that

1) I am in no rush at all
2) don't even knowif I want the a car

[quote=camoeto;254559]To the OP:
1. Negotiate the best price without using any incentives. If you can find a early 2009 prior to price increase that has a MSRP of $33,600 with sport/premium, a negotiated price of $32,000 shouldn't be that unreasonable.

While i agree with most of your other points, you are way off on your reasonable negotiated price (at least for me). Keep in mind that any pre price increase 09 has been sitting on the lot for a LOOONG time. I bought my 09 PSM GT with sport/premium last month before the Pontiac closure announcement, and I negotiated the price down to 29,900.00. Then all I got was the 3,000.00 rebate for a total sale price of 26,900.00 plus TT&L. Also mine had the "rip you off" $990.00 dealer added paint sealant and interior protection already added that they just pretended did not exist as there was no way I was going to pay for it. The OP should be able to get the before incentive price down to close to if not below 30,000.00, then deduct the rebates.
30,000.00
-3,000.00
-1,000.00
-3,000.00
= 23,000.00 +TT&L
Also keep in mind any deal Nino is offering on an 09 is NOT going to be a pre price increase car, so it has not been sitting around collecting dust, rust and scratches from 6 months of weather and people test driving them.

Hope you can find a deal now that GM is reorganizing. But with that SS I would'nt be in a hurry either.

Thanks!! She has 25kmi and all original SLP options.

No way that car is leaving. I was think maybe replacing my DD TB with the G8 and I will if the price is right.

http://www.g8board.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3954&stc=1&d=1243906420

I wonder what the new incentives will be.........you would think MORE now that PONTIAC IS DEAD AND GM IS BANKRUPT !!! but we'll see.

Man, I wish I could find a deal like that around here. It would be in my driveway right now. It seems the local dealerships would rather have the cars sit on their lot. Talked to one today where the car had been there since the end of February and they wouldn't take anything extra off. Wanted 29.4 and told me he would have to talk to his sales manager on Monday to get any discounts. Yeah, thanks.

Good luck. I've been looking at cars that have been sitting on lots since October 2008 and still can't get a decent deal.

Posidon42 & mikemaj82

I hear ya both!
Im so sick and tired of dealing with salesman that think they can just screw you and expect you to except it. The last three GT`s I looked at were built summer of last year and these dealerships think they have a recently built Ferrari on the lot. I got one guy who told me take it or leave it. So I got up grabbed my cell phone and said I will leave it. Told his sales manager he has an ******* working for him.
Most of them are not negotiating the MSRP. Im sorry Im not paying full msrp for a car that was built 9,10,11 months ago. NFW! After all the BS I been through with dealers in the Northeast I decided maybe I should look at something else or wait until I find something in 2010. I hate to give up on the G8 but Im finding better deals from Car companys that are not in the hole. Im in no rush Im 40 and have plenty of time. I want to be there when some of these dealers close and say see. If you just sold cars instead of playing with people you wouldnt be in the F---g mess. JMO!
By the way the MSRP in the NY NJ & CT regions are far more than other states. I wonder why?? I wish I kept my 93 Formula & my 96 SS SLP. I knew I would be kicking myself in the ass!

Posidon42 & mikemaj82

Most of them are not negotiating the MSRP. Im sorry Im not paying full msrp for a car that was built 9,10,11 months ago.

I've been noticing the same thing with my local dealers. All of them are using the MSRP as the base and just taking the rebates off that. I just laugh and say no way i'm paying that. Their usual response is "There is a lot of car there for not a lot of money". Did they forget about the bankruptcy thing and the fact that Americans are losing, if not have lost, total confidence in their product. You'd think they'd want to get these cars on the roads and in the hands of happy customers.

They need to wake up and realize that with the internet, it is pretty simple to find what these cars are actually going for without much work. The only deals I seem to find are across country.

One of the two I looked at last night has been on the lot since the beginning of winter. The other one is around last month some time. Their stock has been pretty much the same for months now. I go inside and there is no customers to be seen. I drive by everyday and there is nobody ever there looking to buy. :slap:

So let me make sure I have this right. You don't want to negotiate, you have stock sitting for months, and you never have customers. How they made the cut of dealers not getting shut down is beyond me.

I too have pretty much given up since i'm not in a hurry to buy. After driving the GT last night and really looking close at the build quality of the interior, I didn't have that excited feeling I expect to get when buying a new car. I really think driving my GF's IS350 has made me question what I really want in a car. Yes the G8 and IS350 are in different classes, but man does that 350 feel good.

Redwing,

Its funny that you mentioned how you drive bye and the places are like ghost towns. I have done the same thing. I couldnt beleive how empty they were and nothing going on. When you pull up they are all like vultures circling you. But nobody wants to talk business.
There was only one dealer near me who I purchased a GP GTP from and my Fomula from years ago that was worth talking to. This guy knew what the car was all about. Its unfortunate that I do care for Red or Black I been there done that. Thats all they have left and to find the one I want they charge you even more. They have one in my color but its a V6. Im a grown man who needs his V8 lol!

If only I lived in TX I could deal with Nino@gaypontiac he seems like a good guy just wanting you to be happy and to make a sale. Now thats how a sale should be.

Shinzon
Nice SS!! She is sweet! Reminds me of my old 96 SS from the back.

If only I lived in TX I could deal with Nino@gaypontiac he seems like a good guy just wanting you to be happy and to make a sale. Now thats how a sale should be.


I agree 100%. I've actually contemplated flying somewhere to deal with a dealer like him, and making it a road trip weekend home. Dealers around here are f'n clueless and think they can charge whatever outrageous number they pull out of their a**. Obviously someone is dumb enough to buy them at that price since they are still in business. I'm not going to be the one though.

Back in '03 I leased a GP and ended up flying back to my hometown in Michigan to get it. The dealer, at the time, was giving out great deals so it was a no brainer. Now the same dealer seems to have caught the same bug these idiots down here have. Pretty much the same prices...and thats in Michigan. :slap:

I was thinking the same just take a road trip break it in on the way back home. My luck I can see myself like smokey and the bandit from TX to CT being chased.

I mentioned it to the wife and she was like for a :censored: car?
I told her not just a f----g car but a pretty fast family car..lol! :gears:

Same here. Went and looked at a white GT Saturday and the dealer let me take it home for the afternoon. I loved it, but it had 100 miles on it already, it had been there since before winter, and the paint had tons of swirl marks on it already and I didn't even get to wash it yet! With the right deal I would have been okay with all that, but they gave me the sticker price with the 0% for 72 months and that was it. I partially blame Pontiac for not offering better incentives themselves. In the state GM is in you'd think they'd want the cashflow immediately. $30,000 OTD with the 0% for 72 would have sealed the deal for me, but these guys aren't budging. Does anyone know what the COST is to produce one of these vehicles?

Does anyone know what the COST is to produce one of these vehicles?

That would be interesting to know.. But there is so many variables to take into account.

Like what it cost to pay the janitor to sweep the floors, the hand towels in the bathrooms, the pay of the assembly line employees, managment, etc. Those are just a few of the 1000's of factors needed to know that number.

I am sure GM has a number they must get to truely break even (with all things considered).

But they are having to work off of estimated sales numbers (because we all know it is cheaper to buy/sell in bulk.. If they only sell 10,000 G8s, but projected to sell 20,000-- that will severely effect the "cost" of each vehicle.

If 40 bucks from each car was for the janitor to clean the floors at the plant. That means they were expecting. $80K to go towards janitorial services. But if they only sell 10,000 cars. they only bring in $40K for that same work. Which puts them in the red, because they can't just not pay to have their plants cleaned.

See my point.. You will never know until the end of the year, what the cost analysis is of each vehicle, Only estimates.

That would be interesting to know.. But there is so many variables to take into account.

Like what it cost to pay the janitor to sweep the floors, the hand towels in the bathrooms, the pay of the assembly line employees, managment, etc. Those are just a few of the 1000's of factors needed to know that number.

I am sure GM has a number they must get to truely break even (with all things considered).

But they are having to work off of estimated sales numbers (because we all know it is cheaper to buy/sell in bulk.. If they only sell 10,000 G8s, but projected to sell 20,000-- that will severely effect the "cost" of each vehicle.

If 40 bucks from each car was for the janitor to clean the floors at the plant. That means they were expecting. $80K to go towards janitorial services. But if they only sell 10,000 cars. they only bring in $40K for that same work. Which puts them in the red, because they can't just not pay to have their plants cleaned.

See my point.. You will never know until the end of the year, what the cost analysis is of each vehicle, Only estimates.

I work in the sales/quotation department where I work and I quote on multi-million dollar mining equipment all the time. Things like the janitor are covered in your overheads which is simply a markup on the cost. The cost itself is very simple...material and labor that is applied directly to the manufacturing of the vehicle. The costs on the shop floor of the machinery, maintenance, wages, tools, etc. are all covered in the labor rate. I would be very interested to know what margin Pontiac is selling these cars at, and how low they can go on them to hit the break even point. Even at the break even point they still make money on the parts, service, etc.

I work in the sales/quotation department where I work and I quote on multi-million dollar mining equipment all the time. Things like the janitor are covered in your overheads which is simply a markup on the cost. The cost itself is very simple...material and labor that is applied directly to the manufacturing of the vehicle. The costs on the shop floor of the machinery, maintenance, wages, tools, etc. are all covered in the labor rate. I would be very interested to know what margin Pontiac is selling these cars at, and how low they can go on them to hit the break even point. Even at the break even point they still make money on the parts, service, etc.

I won't pretend to know your business,

I understand they don't have 5000 lines of variables in the equation. But at some point companies have to account for it, I don't when they do it, But common sense says that floors need to be cleans, parts need to be assembled, parts warehouses need to have laborers and managers, and toilet paper. Some way, shape or form these costs are factored in.

They may do a standard xx% mark up and that will cover it. I have no idea.

So asking what the bottom line price they can build this car for is hard to say. I mean to satisfy the person who wants to know about material/ and manufacturing. It may be one thing.
But the true cost to "break even for them" is much more complex than throwing a number at it.

If those tiny little expenses are taken in to consideration, and lets say they throw a number out there of 20K to simply build this car, not counting designing engineers, retirees, janitor, etc.. And they sell it for 20K.

Then they would actually be in the red big time. Because the company would be paying payroll and the steel factories, and the plastic provider, and the toilet paper/ paper towel distributor from money out of their "break even pot" thus loosing money.

They may do a standard 33% mark up and that will cover all the 5000+ line item expenses. And by selling vehicles in large quantities they will not only pay all their folks that made that car come together but also make a good profit in the process. I have no idea.

Again if they build 30,000 vehicles. They probably expect to sell 30,000 vehicles. But if they don't sell them all, then that effects the true number of what they can sell the car at cost for. Because, the true cost will be different now, because you built a car for free. You can't be building cars and not selling them, and still be profitable.

But to think they could take that built in mark up off the price they sell it to the dealership for that amount and still "break even" isn't true.

Again, I don't claim to be the go to guy on this subject. But that just makes sense to me.
.
.
.
.


ANOTHER POINT: Lastly-- I am not 100% sure how GM works..

Do they sell a car to dealerships for "invoice" and that includes all expenses aquired while making this car, and if they sell the projected number of cars to dealerships then they make X profit.

What if a dealer can't sell the car. Does GM own the car, or the dealership? If GM owns it, then is it safe to say dealerships simply facilitate the sale. And dealership's profits come from any amount over invoice they can sell each car for.(again rebates taken out of the equation)

Not talking about rebates at all, but invoice price. If a dealer sells the car for invoice. does that mean the dealer made zero dollars?

If so, then Johnny's Pontiac dealership sells a car for invoice, and sends GM the check. Making no money...

But wait--- now lets talk about rebates.. GM rebates are kick backs from GM right?

So if they sell the car for $1500 under invoice (after all rebates). Then GM sends them a check for $3000. After they send GM a check for sale price + $1500 to make up for the invoice, the dealer still made $1500.

I think I have figured it out.. This is why they are selling these cars at great rates. Because
A. Pontiac is a dead brand, and they possibly fear not being able to make a sell period.
B. and with the GM kick backs coming like $3K rebate. The dealership still makes money even if they go under invoice, as long as they sell the car for more than Invoice minus all GM sponsored rebates.

Did I get it right!!

-Mongos Thanks for compliments. I am sad to hear you miss your 96. For those that loved their fbodies, nothing else will bring back that feeling.

-MikeMaj - I am in Central Jers, Where have you been looking to save myself the effort of not bothering with them.

I very much don't like CarDealerships that are not fair.

Pontiac is DEAD, in 5 years the G8 is an OLDS Intrigue or a Plymouth.

For me the AVG car expense a year is around 4K. For me I would buy the car for no more than 24,500 plus TTL

So 24500 / 6 years is 4000 a year

What is a g8 with 84,000miles worth six years from now ?

VS.

What is an Acura TL with 84,000 worth six years from now ?

Both cars are compare-able price range wise but this is why getting a good deal off MSRP/Rebates on the Pontiac comes in. Otherwise you are leaving yourself open for a depreciation disaster.

End of story

qqqThat would be interesting to know.. But there is so many variables to take into account.

Like what it cost to pay the janitor to sweep the floors, the hand towels in the bathrooms, the pay of the assembly line employees, managment, etc. Those are just a few of the 1000's of factors needed to know that number.

I am sure GM has a number they must get to truely break even (with all things considered).

But they are having to work off of estimated sales numbers (because we all know it is cheaper to buy/sell in bulk.. If they only sell 10,000 G8s, but projected to sell 20,000-- that will severely effect the "cost" of each vehicle.


If 40 bucks from each car was for the janitor to clean the floors at the plant. That means they were expecting. $80K to go towards janitorial services. But if they only sell 10,000 cars. they only bring in $40K for that same work. Which puts them in the red, because they can't just not pay to have their plants cleaned.

See my point.. You will never know until the end of the year, what the cost analysis is of each vehicle, Only estimates.

They do not make alot of money and in some cases like a G5 OR G3 GM looses. Their biggest problem is their size and mis management. Beyond that it is the unions.

They could make 4 to 5 k in profit on a G8 if they ran the company right.

As far as the dealer goes they own the car or have floorplan financing through most likely GMAC. The profit on a G8 is slim whith holdback an average of 2200.00, not alot. The changes in the exchange rate had also jacked the prices. GM was caught off gaurd in that one.

Hi guys. This is my first post, so be gentle ;)

I'm looking into either a Dodge Challenger R/T or a Pontiac G8 GT.

I was totally in love with the R/T but then my friend showed me his G8GT that he bought (totally hooked up from the dealer - gunmetal rims, blue racing stripe, etc. etc.)

Anyway. Long story short. Today I got my first quote from a dealer here in South Florida. It was for a Panther Black G8GT Sport/Premium package. He quoted me at 32,500 plus tax/tags/title. He has three available, but inventory search on Pontiac dot Com shows around 50 in the immediate area. All of his are black on black. There is one with the black/red interior, that I am leaning towards.

He also has a demo model on the lot with 4140 miles. Sport/Premium, tints, and a sunroof. He did advise me that it had been stolen from their lot a while back, but a check of police records going back a year didn't show anything.

Less the $1500 rebate I qualify for (First GM purchase) it comes out to around 31 even.

The vehicle was invoiced on 12/10/2008. I'm not too familiar with looking at the GM Invoices but this is what I got out of it.

Total Model/Options
MSRP: 33405 + 685 destination charge = 34090.

Invoice: 31521.48 + 685 Destination + 334.05 Dealer IMR and another 334.05 for LMA Group. Total with advertising fees: 32874.58.

Memo: Total less holdback and approx wholesale finance credit: 31241.33

The H/B says 261 1002.15, I am assuming that the H/B on the vehicle is 1002.15, I don't know what the 261 is.

The next line is pay: 310 32874.58...I'm assuming that the floor fee is thusly 310/month.

I am assuming this is a car that was still on the lot post price increase. Should I take the 31 flat on the car or try to squeeze a few more out of him?

I'm thinking that he is offering 32,500 I should counter with 32 even. Would that be fair? (Edmunds TMV says $32,008)

...Or do I play the lowball game and offer 29 or 32 out the door..let him come up with the way to apply the rest of the cost.

JaxxGT, just read this whole post and then make your decision. I think that should be a pre price increase car based on the invoice date (but I am not positive), if so the MSRP should be in the 33XXX range not 34090.00 (that is the post 09 price increase MSRP for an 09 sport & Premium). For what it is worth, I bought my car prior to Pontiacs announced demise for $29900.00 prior to incentives (back then all there was was a $3000.00 rebate) or $26900.00 plut TT&L. If you want the car and do not have to hassle with a trade, consider a trip to Gay Pontiac near Houston Texas and see Nino, he will hook you up.

-Mongos Thanks for compliments. I am sad to hear you miss your 96. For those that loved their fbodies, nothing else will bring back that feeling.

-MikeMaj - I am in Central Jers, Where have you been looking to save myself the effort of not bothering with them.

I very much don't like CarDealerships that are not fair.

Pontiac is DEAD, in 5 years the G8 is an OLDS Intrigue or a Plymouth.

For me the AVG car expense a year is around 4K. For me I would buy the car for no more than 24,500 plus TTL

So 24500 / 6 years is 4000 a year

What is a g8 with 84,000miles worth six years from now ?

VS.

What is an Acura TL with 84,000 worth six years from now ?

Both cars are compare-able price range wise but this is why getting a good deal off MSRP/Rebates on the Pontiac comes in. Otherwise you are leaving yourself open for a depreciation disaster.

End of story

Union Pontiac. They have like, 8 GTs.

Well..I pulled the trigger today. I think I got a decent deal.

Ended up turning down the Pacific Slate Metallic (Premium) and got the Panther Black Metallic (Sport/Premium) with the black/red interior.

I took the 0% (best - offer ever) on like 33,500 out the door.

Ended up getting it for around 1100 under invoice. And close to 2500 under two other dealers. The one dealer I went to on recommendation from a friend "you'll get a great deal!" said there's no way they could beat this price. He played with their numbers and found out that they dipped into their holdback and ended up losing $350 on the actual sale of the car.

Only downside is I take delivery on Monday (out of town for the weekend - too paranoid to let a brand new car with 11 miles sit in my driveway for 3 days)

Oh well. It gives me time to catch up on my reading :-)

And today the missus said to me: "I like it better than the Challenger."

That made me smile. I'm a convert from the Church of MOPAR. Haven't had a GM car in a long long time.

$559 a month

that is a fair amt of loot.

Enjoy.

Everybody is trippin, the dealerships have to make a little bit of money. I came up with a price i wanted to pay OTD, which included taxes..everything.. i didnt care how they worded it..etc.. Even if you have the money to pay the car in full, dont. Give them the chance to finance the purchase. I will pay the car off before the first payment is due. The art of negotiating has alot to do with it. I did my deal strictly through email until the price was right.
I bought a 09 GXP,no roof with the A6.

I live in North Carolina.. the sales tax was about 1200.00 they had a 399.00 dealer fee.. there hold back was 1200.00 with a manufacturing - dealer kickback of around 500.00 and maybe some other secret stuff who know's.
In any event, i was able to get the car for 33,995.00 OTD, 4500.00 in rebates was used.. i basically told them what i qualified for.. credit union..loyatly bonus..cash back stuff.. no gm card stuff or trade in's.

Excluding the taxes..dealer fees.. etc.. i bought the car for about.. 32,400.00 .. to me it didnt matter where they took the rebates at from the msrp..etc.. i always look at the bottom line.

Now if dealing with financing. I dont talk price at all. I still have a price in the back of my head for the full amount though. If i want to go 5 years on the car. I just start negotiating at a certain payment for month for x amount of time. I say make it happen out the door. Granted you have to be knowledgable about the current incentives and rates and have good credit..etc.. Ofcourse they will try sales tactics this way as well.. its only 10.00-20.00 more per month..etc..kinda things.. But just stick tight at what you will do and what you want do with the research you have done.

Bought my G8 in Virginia with no upgrades 2 weeks ago. I'll upgrade the stereo myself, didnt need the V8, and I think the leather is too tight and looks a little boring in the GT. Anyway, the MSRP was $28,875, and my cost was just under $22K. That included all of the qualifying programs (GM loyalty and credit union).

The GM points have nothing to do with the price you pay for the car, since that's a transaction strictly between the dealer and GMAC. I didnt mention my points until we agreed on the price. After my $3000 in points and TTL, final cost to me was just under $20K, financed at 3.99% for 4 years.

financed at 3.99% for 4 years.

Congratulations! If you don't mind me asking, what bank did you finance through at that rate?

Congratulations! If you don't mind me asking, what bank did you finance through at that rate?

Langley Federal Credit Union. That was the 48-month rate. 60 months was another .5%.

Bought my G8 in Virginia with no upgrades 2 weeks ago. I'll upgrade the stereo myself, didnt need the V8, and I think the leather is too tight and looks a little boring in the GT. Anyway, the MSRP was $28,875, and my cost was just under $22K. That included all of the qualifying programs (GM loyalty and credit union).

The GM points have nothing to do with the price you pay for the car, since that's a transaction strictly between the dealer and GMAC. I didnt mention my points until we agreed on the price. After my $3000 in points and TTL, final cost to me was just under $20K, financed at 3.99% for 4 years.

I have a deal brewing for the same thing basically. The only thing that sucks is I am $4500 upside down. So I would finance $27,800. Think thats a good deal? Would you go into the deal upside down?

Sales Price 26628
Rebates 4500
Credit union & Gm = 421
total 21702

I have a deal brewing for the same thing basically. The only thing that sucks is I am $4500 upside down. So I would finance $27,800. Think thats a good deal? Would you go into the deal upside down?

Sales Price 26628
Rebates 4500
Credit union & Gm = 421
total 21702

Upside down? I assume you are saying you are $4500 in debt by trading in a car you owe $4500 more than its worth (?) If that's the case, then the short answer is, no, I would wait until I paid off the $4500. I dont know how a bank would loan you that much money for the car anyway. You might not get this car in 10 months, but there will still be some good car deals a year from now. Who knows, maybe a year from now you can find a better deal on a 2009 with 10K miles on it.

Upside down? I assume you are saying you are $4500 in debt by trading in a car you owe $4500 more than its worth (?) If that's the case, then the short answer is, no, I would wait until I paid off the $4500. I dont know how a bank would loan you that much money for the car anyway. You might not get this car in 10 months, but there will still be some good car deals a year from now. Who knows, maybe a year from now you can find a better deal on a 2009 with 10K miles on it.

I see this a couple different ways. If I just go in negative now and pay it off in say 6 years, rather than pay on my car for another 2 years then buy a car for as much its like $8,000 cheaper in the long run. I would have 0 payments in 6 years rather than 8. I think its a priniple thing. I would prefer not to be upside down but I also want this car new rather than used.

Does anyone know or have an estimate as to when all of the new G8s will be sold? I am guessing 2-3 months from now but wondering if anyone had any other info.

I don't think it will be 2-3 months

I can see these selling in 2010

If I just go in negative now and pay it off in say 6 years, rather than pay on my car for another 2 years then buy a car for as much its like $8,000 cheaper in the long run. I would have 0 payments in 6 years rather than 8. I think its a priniple thing.

LOL Dont fool yourself with the numbers. 2 years to pay off $4500? and $8000 cheaper in the long run? It is certainly cheaper and more responsible to get out of debt before you buy the new car. If you buy the car now, you are paying interest on the entire amount while you are paying off that $4500.

You said you were going to finance 27,800. At 6% for 6 years, that's $460/mo. If instead you pay off your current debt at 460/mo, you are in the black in 10 months. Assuming you can buy the car for 23,300 and finance at 6% for 5 years, your payment will be 450/mo, and your car will be paid off 3 months earlier than if you were to buy it today.

I don't think it will be 2-3 months

I can see these selling in 2010

Yeah me too! If you want a six cylinder. Or maybe a scratch 'n dent GT (demos and the like) in red or white.

Here's how I reached that conclusion.

1.According to Automotive News (http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA61926615.PDF) (sub. may be required) There were 8700 G8s left in inventory as of June 1st.

2. GM reported 3622 G8 sales in the month of June. http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9OTQ1N3xDaGlsZElEPS0 xfFR5cGU9Mw==&t=1

3. 8700-3622=5078 TOTAL G8s left on July 1st.

So at the current sales rate that's not even 2 months worth of all trim levels. Popular colors/trim levels/options go first.

I'm glad I bought mine 2 weeks ago. :boink:

Yeah me too! If you want a six cylinder. Or maybe a scratch 'n dent GT (demos and the like) in red or white.

Here's how I reached that conclusion.

1.According to Automotive News (http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA61926615.PDF) (sub. may be required) There were 8700 G8s left in inventory as of June 1st.

2. GM reported 3622 G8 sales in the month of June. http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9OTQ1N3xDaGlsZElEPS0 xfFR5cGU9Mw==&t=1

3. 8700-3622=5078 TOTAL G8s left on July 1st.

So at the current sales rate that's not even 2 months worth of all trim levels. Popular colors/trim levels/options go first.

I'm glad I bought mine 2 weeks ago. :boink:

^ +1

Locally, you can literally watch the GT inventory drying up every week. I think people who may have been waiting to purchase a G8 in a few years are moving now with the pending demise of Pontiac and the G8. (I did this past Sunday!)

LOL Dont fool yourself with the numbers. 2 years to pay off $4500? and $8000 cheaper in the long run? It is certainly cheaper and more responsible to get out of debt before you buy the new car. If you buy the car now, you are paying interest on the entire amount while you are paying off that $4500.

You said you were going to finance 27,800. At 6% for 6 years, that's $460/mo. If instead you pay off your current debt at 460/mo, you are in the black in 10 months. Assuming you can buy the car for 23,300 and finance at 6% for 5 years, your payment will be 450/mo, and your car will be paid off 3 months earlier than if you were to buy it today.

You are right. it may not take a full 2 years to get to black but depreciation and interest on the current load work against you so I might only be gaining $250 a month which is still 18 months before I get into the black. At the same time every month I wait I lose that much in my trade leading to more taxes paid on the new car. You pay for it one way or another in the end. I would much rather buy this car new so maybe its worth it to me.

I dont know what you are driving and didnt know you were going to trade with the dealer. If it were me, I would pay off the current loan quicker, at around $450/mo. Then I would sell the car privately instead of trading it in and get at least $1000 more. If the 2009 G8s are gone by then, I'd buy a 2010 Camaro!

^ +1

Locally, you can literally watch the GT inventory drying up every week. I think people who may have been waiting to purchase a G8 in a few years are moving now with the pending demise of Pontiac and the G8. (I did this past Sunday!)

Tripower you are the man !!! Nice collection of Pontiacs you have there !

Tripower you are the man !!! Nice collection of Pontiacs you have there !

Thanks! So far the G8 is nice. I haven't racked much seat time miles but expect that it will be a nice road trip car. Are you still considering the G8?

Yeah I am still considering. There is not much out there like it. I have had my share of Pontiacs too, 95 Forumula, 04 GTO so I have a soft sopt in my heart.

I still may get one. The horror storys make me very nervous. If I get one it will be a leap of faith.

Yeah I am still considering. There is not much out there like it. I have had my share of Pontiacs too, 95 Forumula, 04 GTO so I have a soft sopt in my heart.

I still may get one. The horror storys make me very nervous. If I get one it will be a leap of faith.

Glad to hear that you're still considering the G8. The one thing to remember is that generally people post when they are unhappy so tends to skewer the number of issues to total vehicles. Rarely do you see a post that says "I have x miles and everything is wonderful". Had I read more in the GTO forums before buying my 05 I may not have done it! I haven't had any serious issues with the Goat and it's a great car to drive so in the end my "leap of faith" worked out. Hopefully the G8 will yield the same results for me.