So it's Pedders this and Pedders that....now that you've got my attention, tell me the specs of your system.

Some basic questions -

1) How much does the system lower the vehicle, front and rear?

2) What are the spring rates of: (a) the stock springs, and (b) the Pedders springs, front and rear?

3) What are the diameters of: (a) the stock sway bars, and (b) the Pedders sway bars, front and rear?

Thanks! :driving:

and do you have strut tower braces?

Good luck with getting an answer to 2b. Pedders considers spring and damping rates to be proprietary and won't divulge the information. At least, that was my experience with their GTO parts on the sister GTO forum. The springs are progressive, for sure. The Zeta springs are stock height, 40mm drop, or unspecified raise for front and rear. Again going by GTO experience, the rates will probably be something along the lines of "40% stiffer at full compression". Their bars are 22mm/26mm with multiple holes in the end like Hotchkis and appear to be sourced from Nolathane/Red Ranger (along with most of their polyurethane).

The sway bars they offer are adjustable and 26F/22R. They actually appear to be sourced from whiteline. I can't say if it's a private relabel or made for them sort of thing. Then again I could be wrong.

The drop amounts I believe are posted on our web site. Sprong rats are traditionally 40 to 60% higher rates. Yes, we do consider what our overall spring performance as propriatary. We design our coils to ustilze more & % of coils than most manufacturers.

We are actually doing our first office complete TRACK system install on Tues and Wed. Those of you in the Fairfield, Ca area who want to see it, swing on by at Fairfield Auto Village and check it out.
100% of our Pedders coils, shocks and struts are dyno tested with the tightest specs in the business. As far as I know, we are the only one that will do this.

Sway bars are an interesting topic. Everyone is really interested in thickness. But you must consider the metal and hollow versus solid. Our bars are signifantly more stoutly than other brand namesw that our out there. It is the strength of the solid core metal AND the diameter. It is not all about diameter. It truly is about the metal mostly

mike
dms

Sway bars are an interesting topic. Everyone is really interested in thickness. But you must consider the metal and hollow versus solid. Our bars are signifantly more stoutly than other brand namesw that our out there. It is the strength of the solid core metal AND the diameter. It is not all about diameter. It truly is about the metal mostly

How much stiffer are Pedders 26/22 swaybars compared to ones that are made with regular steel?

Sway bars are an interesting topic. Everyone is really interested in thickness. But you must consider the metal and hollow versus solid. Our bars are signifantly more stoutly than other brand namesw that our out there. It is the strength of the solid core metal AND the diameter. It is not all about diameter. It truly is about the metal mostly

mike
dms

Actually, hollow bars are stiffer than solid ones and less likely to twist, but solid bars are certainly easier to manufacture.

What are the diameters of your solid bars for the G8?

That depends on the metallurgy of the material.

That depends on the metallurgy of the material.

Not really. A hollow bar has two surfaces (inside and outside) for torsional stress to overcome, whereas a solid bar has one. And actually, all that has to happen with a solid bar is for the center of the bar to start twisting (which is very easy) and then the whole bar will start to twist. A hollow bar is superior in nearly every way to a solid one.

Still would like to hear what the diameter of the Pedders bar is. :coffee:

26f/22r

We have now done two installs on the G8

Rear ride heights with Pedders 2955 Coil 19 inch rim

624mm

Front ride heights with Pedders 2954 Coil 19 inch rim

642mm

We have now done two installs on the G8

Rear ride heights with Pedders 2955 Coil 19 inch rim

624mm

Front ride heights with Pedders 2954 Coil 19 inch rim

642mm

What were the stock ride heights?

How much stiffer are Pedders 26/22 swaybars compared to ones that are made with regular steel?

if you mean the stock sway bars, then both the pedders and the stock are solid bars. The stock bars have been quoted as the following size-23F/18R

Using the whiteline chart the front is 63% stiffer and the rear 123% stiffer. This amounts assume though the same bar material, design, and shape. I don't know if the pedders do or do not meet all three of those requirements to make those percentages 100% accurate. Regardless of the complete accuracy I think the numbers give you a good idea of the range.

What were the stock ride heights?

The GT G8 with the Sport Package arrives in the USA with an average ride height of 660 at all four wheels measured on an alignment rack and 19" wheels. If you look at the G8 you will notice two things about ride heights and wheel well sizes.

The front wheel arch is much larger than the rear wheel arch.

The car arrives sitting high, almost 4x4 high, especially in the bum.

When Pedders 2954 and 2955 lowering coils are installed the car sits aggressively with an 8mm rake from the rear down to the front. The 4x4 OE ride height are gone with the new ride height of 642mm front and 622mm rear. If you look only at the wheel arches you will 'think' it is sitting lower in the bum. That would be incorrect. Look at the roof-line, hood and side sill angles.

The driving experience of the G8 is very different once lowered than the GTO. The G8 is far more supple. The ride is exceptionally sophisticated. The G8 does not plow in either OE or Pedderised trim.

if you mean the stock sway bars, then both the pedders and the stock are solid bars. The stock bars have been quoted as the following size-23F/18R

Using the whiteline chart the front is 63% stiffer and the rear 123% stiffer. This amounts assume though the same bar material, design, and shape. I don't know if the pedders do or do not meet all three of those requirements to make those percentages 100% accurate. Regardless of the complete accuracy I think the numbers give you a good idea of the range.
Close enough -- I'll let you know next Wednesday when we do the next USA G8. Said another way, when we do MY G8.

Actually, hollow bars are stiffer than solid ones and less likely to twist, but solid bars are certainly easier to manufacture.

What are the diameters of your solid bars for the G8?

this is not true with respect to our bars. It is all about metalergy nd not just size

mike
dms

Assuming the bars are of the same quality metal and manufacture a hollow bar should be stronger than a solid bar. The variables are quality of steel and manufacture. We are quite confident in the quality and strength of a Pedders bar. That said the strongest bar is not necessarily the best bar. Too much bar is just as unsettling to a suspension as not enough bar.

If you purchase an aftermarket bar that is designed to compensate for the extreme travel and mild damping found in an OE G8, it will probably be too much bar for a complete aftermarket suspension. A Pedders bar will be a substantial improvement over the OE bar, but will be tuned best to a Pedders system. A Pedders sway bar is designed to work withing the parameters of a complete Pedders suspension system. So are the bushes, coils and dampers. It is a balanced system.

Can you mix and match a variety of bits from different sources into a solid suspension -- sure as long as you are willing to experiment until you get it right. With Pedders, you have as much predictability in the finished product as you do in the actual suspension. Do it right. Do it once.

Assuming the bars are of the same quality metal and manufacture a hollow bar should be stronger than a solid bar. The variables are quality of steel and manufacture. We are quite confident in the quality and strength of a Pedders bar. That said the strongest bar is not necessarily the best bar. Too much bar is just as unsettling to a suspension as not enough bar.

If you purchase an aftermarket bar that is designed to compensate for the extreme travel and mild damping found in an OE G8, it will probably be too much bar for a complete aftermarket suspension. A Pedders bar will be a substantial improvement over the OE bar, but will be tuned best to a Pedders system. A Pedders sway bar is designed to work withing the parameters of a complete Pedders suspension system. So are the bushes, coils and dampers. It is a balanced system.

Can you mix and match a variety of bits from different sources into a solid suspension -- sure as long as you are willing to experiment until you get it right. With Pedders, you have as much predictability in the finished product as you do in the actual suspension. Do it right. Do it once.

I will design my own system using suppliers who aren't afraid to disclose the specs of their components. For my Avalanche, Eibach told me the exact springs rates of their springs so I could select other components to complement them (e.g. Hotchkis sway bars). The end result was a 6,000 lb SUV that rode better than stock, and handled better than most sports cars.

Pedders is great for someone who doesn't want to put any thought into their suspension build, and is willing to accept what one person (or company) decides is 'best.' I prefer to research my components so I can make my vehicle ride and handle exactly how I want it to. For that I am willing to experiment.

I guess we're not for everyone, but find it funny that your going to dismiss our product based only on the fact that we won't tell you every spec. Our kits have been well tested and work well together with other Pedders Parts.

Maybe before you make a decision you may regret, you should at least take a ride in one, just a thought.

Good luck to you in your search, hope that it all works out for you.

I guess we're not for everyone, but find it funny that your going to dismiss our product based only on the fact that we won't tell you every spec. Our kits have been well tested and work well together with other Pedders Parts.

Maybe before you make a decision you may regret, you should at least take a ride in one, just a thought.

Good luck to you in your search, hope that it all works out for you.

I'm sure it will work out great for me. Likewise, I hope you get enough people to buy your system just by saying things like "It's great!" "You would be nuts not to take advantage of it!" etc., without giving any specs or any qualitative or quantitative measures of the improvement over stock.

Cheers. :drink:

Sandog,
I actually have a Pedderised system. It has totally turned around the ride of the OE set-up. What is all the bashing about? Yes, it was a venture between us. I have the first G8GT in the USA, unless anyone can prove me wrong. Since the Track II install, this thing has done everything Pete claims and then some. I keep looking in the rearview for the manhole covers I feel Red888 pulling up, and that's no ****!. Go where you feel the need.

Not really. A hollow bar has two surfaces (inside and outside) for torsional stress to overcome, whereas a solid bar has one. And actually, all that has to happen with a solid bar is for the center of the bar to start twisting (which is very easy) and then the whole bar will start to twist. A hollow bar is superior in nearly every way to a solid one.

Still would like to hear what the diameter of the Pedders bar is. :coffee:

I spent several years at a heat treater testing material before and after heat treating. I happen to know a little about tensile strength.
If a hollow bar is superior in every way, then why make solid bars?
It's not cost, because to fold and tig weld is one operation.

I am with Sandog in regards to the specs. If I am buying a spring I want to know what the spring rate is. It shouldn't be proprietary, it should be part of the data sheet, it is fairly important. When I am ordering components for the equipment we build at work, things like "Tastes Great, Less Filling!" doesn't work. If you are buying an engine you want to know how much power it should make, and what components were used to assemble it. If you are keeping the most basic info a secret it is probably because it is something anybody can pick up elsewhere for less.

You guys (Pedders Reps) might want to consider spell checking your posts before you hit the "submit" button. Little things add up to create your company image and right now IMHO Pedders sounds like every other big promise small delivery auto aftermarket company out there.

Spring rates will not be released, but we should have info regarding the % stiffness compared to stock, just as we did on the GTO.

That doesn't do anybody any good at all, it is fluff. Assuming your % numbers are accurate one could calculate the spring rate on their own anyway. Why keep it secret?

I personally do not support companies that hide behind the "it's proprietary" disclaimer when asked about the technical specs of their technical components. They are suspension components, stop trying to market them like diet pills.

I spent several years at a heat treater testing material before and after heat treating. I happen to know a little about tensile strength.
If a hollow bar is superior in every way, then why make solid bars?
It's not cost, because to fold and tig weld is one operation.

Sorry, you are incorrect. Solid bars are dirt cheap to manufacture. Hollow bars are much more expensive to make and bend correctly. Solid bars are heavy and add weight. Hollow bars are light(er) and subtract weight from a vehicle. It's that simple.

The fact that Pedders uses solid sway bars already has me raising an eyebrow. The fact they won't come clean with their specs tells me they have more to hide.

I am with Sandog in regards to the specs. If I am buying a spring I want to know what the spring rate is. It shouldn't be proprietary, it should be part of the data sheet, it is fairly important. When I am ordering components for the equipment we build at work, things like "Tastes Great, Less Filling!" doesn't work. If you are buying an engine you want to know how much power it should make, and what components were used to assemble it. If you are keeping the most basic info a secret it is probably because it is something anybody can pick up elsewhere for less.

You guys (Pedders Reps) might want to consider spell checking your posts before you hit the "submit" button. Little things add up to create your company image and right now IMHO Pedders sounds like every other big promise small delivery auto aftermarket company out there.

I find this amusing. Pedders puts cars where our mouths are and that is far more than most aftermarket companies. If you want to take shots at my Rep over his spelling -- then we don't need your business.

What specifications will you use to select your bits -- those the mfg posts on their website and in thier literature. That is just like having your accountant do an audit. There are no standards required to post data claims. NONE. The mfg can test one coil and use the same data for 10 years with 8 revisions to the coils rate. EVERY mfg that posts spec also reserves the right to change them at will with no obligation to inform the customer. Let's assume that you purchase a spring rated at 100 Pounds per inch. You get it delivered by mail and put it in your load cell. It tests to 120 pounds -- I would love to see the mfg that takes it back.

Pedders NEVER asks you to buy a bit based on our claims, marketing or statistics. Pedders Dealers make Pedderised vehicles available for you to test drive. A test drive using the exact same components you will be buying is better than any data. If you want to be a bench racer and buy form specs, you will not offend me at all. If you want to NLKOW what you are buying -- take a test drive at your Pedders Dealer. We let the finished product tell our story.

Sandog,
I actually have a Pedderised system. It has totally turned around the ride of the OE set-up. What is all the bashing about? Yes, it was a venture between us. I have the first G8GT in the USA, unless anyone can prove me wrong. Since the Track II install, this thing has done everything Pete claims and then some. I keep looking in the rearview for the manhole covers I feel Red888 pulling up, and that's no ****!. Go where you feel the need.

Glad you like your setup. Just curious, how many miles did you put on your vehicle in stock trim before you had it 'Pedderised'? Did you take it on any drives where you tested the limits of the stock setup?

Regarding asking for specs of components, if you consider that bashing, all I have to say is - Wow, are you serious?

Well since you are going to design a system this is all moot.

...If you want to take shots at my Rep over his spelling -- then we don't need your business...

That wasn't a shot at your rep over his many spelling errors, it was a simple suggestion to you and him. It looks bad to me, a potential customer. I own a manufacturing business and if my reps communicated that poorly on a forum frequented by the people I was trying to sell my product to I would be embarrassed. It doesn't mean you or your reps are bad people but how hard is it to spell check?

http://www.iespell.com/

What specifications will you use to select your bits -- those the mfg posts on their website and in thier literature.
Yes, I would.
There are no standards required to post data claims. NONE. The mfg can test one coil and use the same data for 10 years with 8 revisions to the coils rate.
Yeah, they could but if they did their QC and customer satisfaction would be terrible.
EVERY mfg that posts spec also reserves the right to change them at will with no obligation to inform the customer. Let's assume that you purchase a spring rated at 100 Pounds per inch. You get it delivered by mail and put it in your load cell. It tests to 120 pounds -- I would love to see the mfg that takes it back.
If 120 was within the acceptable POSTED 20% +/- tolerance range then I would accept it. If it was out of spec and they wouldn't accept the return I wouldn't do business with them anymore, and tell everyone I know about the practice.

Pedders NEVER asks you to buy a bit based on our claims, marketing... You are not giving us anything else to go by. :huh:

Pedders Dealers make Pedderised vehicles available for you to test drive. A test drive using the exact same components you will be buying is better than any data. Not really, they are not mutually exclusive, the data and the test drive should complement each other if they are correct.

If you want to be a bench racer and buy form specs, you will not offend me at all. If you want to NLKOW what you are buying -- take a test drive at your Pedders Dealer. We let the finished product tell our story.It is not about bench racing, it being an informed consumer.

Look, I don't know if Pedders makes a good product or not and I don't know you or your company from Adam. The fact that you and your dealers will not answer a simple question makes me leery of your claims. What I do know is that I can calculate what spring rate I want and if you won't/can't tell me what yours are I won't be buying them from you. I may drive one of your cars and really like the way it handles but you wouldn't get one cent from me without telling me all there is about what I am buying.

Personally it sounds like you went to the Granatelli school of marketing, Believe everything I say, you wouldn't understand the details anyway. That is BS. The automotive aftermarket is full of snake oil salesman.

Glad you like your setup. Just curious, how many miles did you put on your vehicle in stock trim before you had it 'Pedderised'? Did you take it on any drives where you tested the limits of the stock setup?

Regarding asking for specs of components, if you consider that bashing, all I have to say is - Wow, are you serious?

I did the install on his G8. But before we collected data on heights, and performed mutliple roadtests in all kinds of driving experiences. If I remember correctly, he might have at about 1600 to 1800 miles(?) not exactly sure

But I can tell you the difference was significant. Driving it hard with OEM suspension, I found the body role very significant and personally uncomfortable. this is a common design function of the Zeta platform. We did not have our sway bars yet to install so could not evaluate them, but with the kit we put on, the change was great. We could do a 60mph run down the center of the street, and could do very rapid 90 degree turns left, then right. I could keep the front wheels within each lane divider. Under know circomstances could you do this with OEM, not even close. So this is something you can try with your OEM suspension to see what it will do. Now keep in mind, be safe doing so. The street we did it on, had little to no traffic on it and we could see over 1 mile. We were just kissing the boarders of traction control on a couple of turns. Had no tire squeel as well.

We welcome and to be honest, expect all G8 owners who are thinking about suspension upgrades, to wait and drive one that has been Pedderised. We are that confident! It is like making a apple pie: find out what ingredients are in it does little. But to taste it should be a warm, sweet, smiling experience.

Inventories for G8 components should be substantial pretty soon. We are doing the third install tomorrow: the JusticePete G8 that will be featured at our Sema booth this year.

There are lots of non-compliant issues with the suspension of a G8 when driving in a sporty manner. The most important bushes on this car to do are the rear Xmember bushes. Driving it hard, you can feel the rear Xmember or rear cradle, lag and be different with body role. Fortunately, they are fairly easy to install and make a major difference. In fact, so far, we are extremely pleased that the install components are far easier than the GTO, with the exception of the struts. The struts are more difficult than the GTO to do.

On the install we did at Fairfield, it took 2 complete days, because we would install a piece, and go out and test it to see the differences. The other differences in steering feel and response had to do with the lower control arm bush and the caster plates we installed to get the caster to 6.8 degrees. This car has fairly low caster as compared to the GTO and a lot more suspension travel than the GTO and sits much higher than the GTO.

So wait and see and drive one, and you will see where we put our bits where our mouths are..

enjoying the posts

mike
dms

I'm sure it will work out great for me. Likewise, I hope you get enough people to buy your system just by saying things like "It's great!" "You would be nuts not to take advantage of it!" etc., without giving any specs or any qualitative or quantitative measures of the improvement over stock.

Cheers. :drink:As we always say, take a test drive. Never buy suspension bits based on the claims or specification provided by any company. Get in a car equipped exactly as yours will be and let your own seat bottom make the call.

At Pedders we have no internet stores. Every Dealer that sells Pedders bits has been certified in thier own shop to do the job the Pdders way. Every Pedders Dealer has grease under there nails. Every Pedders Dealer either owns a G8 or will make available a G8 to demonstrate the Pedders difference.

Unlike those companies that claim to make racing bits and then void any an all warranty if you use your vehicle in a speed contest or any form of racing, Pedders warranties our street bits -- even if you go racing with them. We don't make claims. We make suspensions systems.

Specs are for bench racers. Real racers know that only a test drive with the setup they want wil provide the information they need. Either that is true or the people ion all forms of racing wase a huge amount of time on setup -- when they already know the specs.

It is like making a apple pie: find out what ingredients are in it does little. But to taste it should be a warm, sweet, smiling experience.

Who cares what it tastes like if the ingredients could kill you?

We absolutely expect to be challenged by all of you on our products. It was that way for GTO as well, and Pedders owns 90-95% of the GTO suspension market. It is a wise man who "questions" what he hears. So be patient with your suspension upgrades, and wait until you have one available to drive. It will be well worth your efforts.

We have not chatted about them be we do have adjustable coil overs for the serious driver. I actually have 2 sets that were chrome plated due to them being on display at Sema. Some are signed by Scott Pedders and Pete. These are the only chromed ones you will find. But again, they are only for the very serious driver Since I have 2 sets, if there is someone in the SF Bay Area who would want a set on, and will allow us to have your vehicle for a couple of days so we can evaluate them, we will give you 25% of on parts and 10% off on labor. Would also have to do bushes as well.

So lets keep the discussion open, and go from here. We ill be having G8 Pedders days accross the country as product becomes more available so keep your fingers on the key board and watch this forum for info.

thanks to all for participating

mike
dms

Oh by the way, I am typing on a MAC and have Safari. There is no spell check option for this. So if I error on a word or 2, forgive me

Who cares what it tastes like if the ingredients could kill you?

Its not the suspension parts that kill you, it is the inexperienced drivers who think they are invinsible and do not understand the limits of their ride

Any kind of suspension upgrade increases the handling capabilites. Depending on what is done and what products used, it can range from minor, to serious improvments. I advise the guys who drive their vehicles hard and competitively, to use some open parking lots were is is safer to test the limits, and go to auto crosses. The worse you can do at a auto cross is to get some rubber on your bumpers from the cones.

Driving any vehicle in an aggressive manner means you need to be more alert, and in tune with your ride. Knowing the limits of your ride is critical for your safety; whether it is a stock G8 or a Formual 1; the same principles apply

So be safe out there, and enjoy your G8's


mike
dms

This thread is about specs, and 35 posts later, still no specs. :huh:

Yeah I am pretty sure this is all a waste of time. Springs are not rocket science, there is no reason to protect the rates as "propretary info." Your manufacturing processes that help ensure consistent repeatable results are what would be worth keeping a secret.

I wasn't insinuating that the suspension products would kill anybody, though they certainly could be the source of catastrophic failure, I was just poking a hole in the stupid apple pie argument.

For our amusement (maybe awe, who knows) could you please post videos of the rapid 90* turns at 60 mph? Keep in mind all the stock GT slalom speeds I have seen are in the ~65~68 mph range and the turns aren't anywhere near 90*.

Glad you like your setup. Just curious, how many miles did you put on your vehicle in stock trim before you had it 'Pedderised'? Did you take it on any drives where you tested the limits of the stock setup?

Regarding asking for specs of components, if you consider that bashing, all I have to say is - Wow, are you serious?

I had 1646 stock miles before the install. As far as testing to the "limits' I can't answer that since the car is still in one piece. As far as drives, I would consider my driving to be road course (as evidenced by worn bush). Nothing like diving hard into a corner and hitting the hammer coming out. 900 mi road trip over the "Grapevine" and back. I saw a lot of cars, and they saw me. I took it to what I thought were the limits, more than once. And, I can honestly tell you that the car is far superior now.

As far as the "bashing"? You're more than right to field your thoughts. Even I can appreciate that.

The G8 is so novel! It's been an unbelievable ride since taking delivery of Red888, and it's only going to get better.

This thread is about specs, and 35 posts later, still no specs. :huh:Really? I must have been reading another thread with the sway bar diameters and the ride heights clearly posted. Pedders does not publish spring or damping rates. Pedders does make Dealer and customer cars available for test rides and drives at Pedders shops, Pedders Day and other national events. It is far more important to ride in a car with the suspension modifications you are planning than to read about them. I have seen a lot of 10 second cars turn into 13 seconds cars at the strip. I have seen the hottest setup in suspension finish dead last at the autocross. If all we have to do is study the specifications why do they bother to actually run the races?

Taking your quest for data to the point of decision, if you collect all the available specifications, from every manufacturer in the world and test drive cars with the suspension mods you plan from every mfg, but the best car, the car you feel is the best handling and best riding, the car that performs impeccably to your standards you'll take a pass becuase the published coil rate was too low and the damping rate too high as published in the marketing materials? If the answer is you would buy the best handling suspension regardless of the specifications -- then the specifications were irrelevant. If you buy the suspension bits that disappointed you becuase the specifications are right on paper but the performance was disappointing...

Suspension mods are best evaluated in real life, in real time, in real cars by your own butt. That is why we operate as we do. Specs are meaningless. Advertising is meaningless. Real world, real time driving is all that is relevant -- unless you drive on paper. It is a very rare event that a person test rides / drives a Pedderised vehcile and buys brand-x.

I will design my own system using suppliers who aren't afraid to disclose the specs of their components. For my Avalanche, Eibach told me the exact springs rates of their springs so I could select other components to complement them (e.g. Hotchkis sway bars). The end result was a 6,000 lb SUV that rode better than stock, and handled better than most sports cars.

Pedders is great for someone who doesn't want to put any thought into their suspension build, and is willing to accept what one person (or company) decides is 'best.' I prefer to research my components so I can make my vehicle ride and handle exactly how I want it to. For that I am willing to experiment.

I can't tolerate this any longer. We have a person with a Pedderised G8 getting dumped on becuase I as the owner of Pedders won't release coil and damping rates. That is not right. It is time for a reality check.

Reality Check #1

The Eibach coils you put on were exactly the spring rate quoted by Eibach because you placed them in a properly calibrated load cell and verified the rates of the springs you received from Eibach before you installed each coil or they gave you a number and you ASSUMED the coils you installed were exactly the same as the number they gave you? No need to answer that question. We already know the answer. Very few race shops do this let alone a consumer in thier home shop. Hey maybe you have a load cell and I am wrong.

Reality Check #2

Check the disclaimers -- the mfg reserves the right to change the specs on the product and has no obligation to inform the consumer of the change nor do they guarantee the product meets the published specification. They can change them any time they feel like it. The local deli counter has a certified scale, that in theory at least, is checked by a government inspector and they verified a pound was a pound. There is NO standard or agency like that for after market bits and coils. No one holds mfgs accountable for the data they publish -- it comes with a disclaimer. The data on a website is not guaranteed to be anything but a published number -- no more and no less. Talk to a good engine builder and see how many valve springs they discard from high quality mfgs because they do not meet the printed specs. They test each valve spring and assemble a matched set from a number of sets. Suspension coils are no different. Talk to any brand-x suspension company and see what they have as an acceptable range for variations in coil height and while you have them on the phone ask them if they load cell measure each coil to be certain it is within thier own specifications. You also don't need to answer that question. We already know the answer. I would be happy to discuss that as we do publish this highly relevant data. You didn't ask for that data becuase brand-x doesn't publish it.

Reality Check #3

"The end result was a 6,000 lb SUV (Checy Avalanche) that rode better than stock, and handled better than most sports cars." Which sports car does your GMT900 truck out handle?

1. Miata
2. Solstice
3. RX 8
4. BMW M3
5. Pontiac G8 Box Stock
6. ACME Cement Truck

You were wound up when you wrote this so how about we agree to let this one go? Look, if you want to have a reasonable dialogue I will be happy to participate. If you all you want to do here is chase numbers like a male dog chases a female dog in heat... You also didn't ask about the advantages and disadvantages of cold winding as opposed to hit winding coils. There is much that is critically important but not being discussed here.

We encourage consumers to drive before they buy. We encourage consumers to drive brand-x before Pedders. The best Pedders prospect is a prospect that has already test driven brand-x. Bring it on in the real world where there is nothing but the performance of the vehcile. If you want to buy on specifications then buy brand-x.

Pedders: No Bench Racers and No Trailer Queens.

I will design my own system using suppliers who aren't afraid to disclose the specs of their components. For my Avalanche, Eibach told me the exact springs rates of their springs so I could select other components to complement them (e.g. Hotchkis sway bars). The end result was a 6,000 lb SUV that rode better than stock, and handled better than most sports cars.

Pedders is great for someone who doesn't want to put any thought into their suspension build, and is willing to accept what one person (or company) decides is 'best.' I prefer to research my components so I can make my vehicle ride and handle exactly how I want it to. For that I am willing to experiment.

With many coil springs there is a lot more involved than spring rates. Cse in point, lets talk about Eibach, and lest assume it is on one of the new GM900 utilities. I have installed mabe 5 sets of them, and in fact got 5 different heights. 3 of them I had to remove because they dropped the vehicle so low, that I could not get the casters any higher than -1.5 degrees. Looked good, but drove terribly. Also, I did not enjoy the 1 coil they used in the bacj to control suspension travel (think it was 1, but for their benifit lest say it was 2) Eibach GTO coils for the rear use 1 active coil, for the LX platform, they use 2 coils. They look great, and drive great until you hit a bump. If you do not beleive me, then I will give you the name and phone number of my Eibach distributor and you can talk to him directly.

so If in fact you do have a spring measuring tool, and it came into lbs spec, then please explain to me the .75 to 1 inch variations we got in ride heights in the front with the 5 sets of springs. Maybe there is more to the design the lbs?

We also have a video of a new Tahoe with pedders springs, shocks and struts going doing a auto cross. Same driver took a new Tahoe with a biger motor. The Pedderised Tahoe was I think 2.8 seconds faster than stock. But it was not as fast as the Vettes that ran with us

Here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG6Cb5V0olc

Mike
dms

I can't tolerate this any longer. We have a person with a Pedderised G8 getting dumped on becuase I as the owner of Pedders won't release coil and damping rates. That is not right. It is time for a reality check.

I don't see anybody dumping on your customers. What I see is a manufacturer of suspension components that is not willing to divulge a very important aspect of said components. I see a manufacturer that will not answer a simple question and instead throws out all kinds of irrelavant info thinking that will be shift the focus of the thread.

Reality Check #1

The Eibach coils you put on were exactly the spring rate quoted by Eibach because you placed them in a properly calibrated load cell and verified the rates of the springs you received from Eibach before you installed each coil or they gave you a number and you ASSUMED the coils you installed were exactly the same as the number they gave you? No need to answer that question. We already know the answer. Very few race shops do this let alone a consumer in thier home shop. Hey maybe you have a load cell and I am wrong.

A good friend of mine would be suprised to hear that, he has made a very good living working for various race teams across many venues doing nothing more than setting up shock and spring assemblies on a dyno.

I still don't know if you make a good product or not. I am keeping my mind open until I actually see and drive a car. Just from the responses here, I am not all that optimistic.

Pete, DMS,
I've sent you PMs.
Ed

A good friend of mine would be suprised to hear that, he has made a very good living working for various race teams across many venues doing nothing more than setting up shock and spring assemblies on a dyno.

My point exactly. Unless you follow your friends process a suspension assembled from printed specs is nothing more that a hope and prayer. That is why they pay him -- to verify what they have is what they thought they would have and to make sure the assembly is properly tuned and good to go. In spite of your friends best work, the same team will have him back again to get the car looser or tighter.

Now tell me how many people you believe will do this with the coils they bought from brand-x and the dampers they bought from brand-z? So for those who lack the equipment and technical expertise to do this work thier best option is to buy a system that is designed to work with and compliment the components -- a system that has been matched and tested using the same equipment your friend does. That system for the G8 happens to be Pedders. It is tuned across bushes, dampers, coils and sways.

Do you have a learning disability? That is a serious question. How do I make your point by stating that a friend of mine makes a living doing what you say nobody does?

I get it, your system is matched. That is not what has been asked over and over and over again. I have set up a few suspensions in my time. Starting as a young kid competitively racing RC cars. Again, in engineering school on the formula SAE car. Currently, on supersport motorcycles that compete under WERA. Heck, springs for my '68 Mustang are sold by an advertised rate. We always buy springs spec'd to a spring rate and height with a +/- tolerance. Why would Pedders be different?

Do you have a learning disability? That is a serious question. How do I make your point by stating that a friend of mine makes a living doing what you say nobody does?

What was said and I quote: Very few race shops do this let alone a consumer in thier home shop. Hey maybe you have a load cell and I am wrong.

I don't see anybody dumping on your customers. What I see is a manufacturer of suspension components that is not willing to divulge a very important aspect of said components. I see a manufacturer that will answer a simple question and instead throws out all kinds of irrelavant info thinking that will be shift the focus of the thread.



A good friend of mine would be suprised to hear that, he has made a very good living working for various race teams across many venues doing nothing more than setting up shock and spring assemblies on a dyno.

I still don't know if you make a good product or not. I am keeping my mind open until I actually see and drive a car. Just from the responses here, I am not all that optimistic.


We do have some experience with racing shocks/coils. I.E. Scot Pedders is a professional road rally driver in Au, and will be touring in Southeast Asia. The shocks and springs on his vehicle are made I think in Germany, and cost I think about $8,000 a piece and are rebuilt after every race, and custom tuned for each syle of event.

If you really think the average guy has the ability to do this, like your friend, then you must have a very special group of people in your center of influence. To start, many/most adjustable shocks are already too stiff to benefit a properly tuned suspension system. As one exec told me at Sema who manufactures one of the brand name assemblies out there, for marketing purposes, they make their assemblies over shocked so poeple can feel the difference and thus giver value to their product. It is only by doing comparative testing can you find a difference. Case in point, Pete and I 2 years ago, prepared 2 GTOs that had all of our bushes, the same split configured tire sizes (245-18 front and 275-18 rears). The primary difference was a set of adjustable Konis, with Eibach drop springs, which lowered all 4 corners 1 plus inches. the other GTO had our Pedders GSR shocks all around with OE height springs. We did a skid pad test, and found the Pedders OE height springs with our GSR shocks and struts, had higher speeds on the same coarse than the overly aggressive Koni;s and drop Eibach springs. Was not just Pete's and my observation. We had I think 12 members of the LS1GTO.COM community that did the same test and all confirmed and agreed with me.

Being too stiff, in a fully independent suspension is onot a gaurentee of success. It is definaely a gaurentee of a lack of bladder control after a long drive on a bumpy road. There is a reason Pedders dominates the GTO market in a massive way: we bring the vehicles to the communities and let others drive them, evaluate them, and feel the exceptionally fine ride quality they offer. This is how we choose to do business, and not offer trade secrets to all. What other spring companies bench tests every spring and shock, and gaurentee the effectiveness of our heights? As far as I know, Pedders is the only one.

mike
dms

It is of course highly amusing to find suspension geniuses dogging a respected vendor, when same geniuses:

A: Forgot a "same stiffness" hollow sway bar has a larger OD and a lower mass than the "same stiffness" solid bar. I am fairly confident the laws of physics apply to cars from Australia. Sway bar stiffness varies first with OD raised to the 4th power, second with torque arm length squared and everything else is distant third place with no exponent.

and

B: are planning a full custom suspension for handling on a car with no man pedal in it.


Temporarily amusing diversion aside, the preface to the Milliken (Roman Numeral numbered pages) still trumps all the math in the back half of the book. My point (and Milliken's) is the fastest car on the track is the one where the performance of the driver in the car is maximized. The corollary is races are not won by the technically "best" car.

The path of least resistance for those of us who are not suspension geniuses hanging on in quiet desperation as cable installers while waiting for Ferrari to call is quite simple. Go drive a Pedderized G8. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

FWIW I put 38,000 miles on my bone stock 2004 GTO. Then I got it Pedderized. I drove that car all the way through Pedders 36k mile warranty. I drove it another 14k miles out of Pedder's warranty. In the last 6,000 miles two GTO owners have test driven my 80k mile goat and gone straight to a Pedder's dealer with their own cars. My goat handles like the Pedders stuff went in maybe 5,000 miles ago. It's awesome.

If you have driven one, please post your honest impression. If you have not driven one please enjoy some sweet tea from Uruguay while you are waiting for Lotus to return your phone calls.

You are 100% correct. It is all about the drive!

Pete, Your spelling makes me want to stab my eyes out. If you choose to communicate using the english language have the respect to put a little effort into it.

I have said quite a few times I will keep an open mind about a "Pedderised" car until I get to drive one. I guess I do have a special group of friends. They happen to be very intelligent engineers in many industries. We are nerds, we talk numbers. The automotive aftermarket is full people trying to take my money often making big promises and failing to deliver. One way to separate the wheat from the chaff is to ask questions. Some will answer honestly, most will talk in circles because they don't know the answer. If they won't share specs it is probably because it can be had elsewhere for less money from the original manufacturer. Sure it won't come with a cool sticker or be painted bright red, but who cares? Many of our Holden friends in Oz don't have the nicest things to say about Pedders'.

They're a scum of the earth suspension and brake chain store here in Oz... their shocks are Basically Monroe GT Gas painted red, and their springs are from a competitor/subcontractor, also painted red.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing a car in the future. Will any cars on Power Tour be available to drive?

One way to separate the wheat from the chafe is to ask questions.

Spellcheck alone (chortle) does not you a master of English make.

Beauty.

Thanks, we all make mistakes. I at least try and correct mine.

Invitation: You can drive mine anytime! As long you have insurance as good as mine, or better.

Either you like the drive/ride, or you don't. That's simple.

I hope to be Pedderized soon. you can try mine too if you like.

Pete, Your spelling makes me want to stab my eyes out.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing a car in the future. Will any cars on Power Tour be available to drive?

Pete a.k.a. Justice Pete with the acerbic tongue

Mike a.k.a. dms with Safari and no spellcheck

Power Tour -- I am registered for the Long Haul but I am not sure if I'll have the time for all the stops.

GTOAA -- We should have my G8 and GTO both there.

LX Nationals in Ohio -- We should have my G 8 and GTO both there.

Camaro Superfest -- We should have the G8 there

Pedders Days will be held around the country at our local Dealers shops as well. Mike Haddad already has a G8 with GSRs and Coils. Other Dealers are coming online with either thier own vehcile or cooperative customer. In a matter of 60 days, finding a Pedderised G8 should be pretty easy.

We are very passionate about suspension and a couple of platforms that are near and dear to our hearts. It isn't a job for us -- it is a life choice we made. We really don't sell suspension bits. We sell SEGs. The way we see it the bigger the SEGs our customers leave with the bigger our paychecks will be that follow. Rotary taught us that years ago with thier originally motto that was edited to be more socially acceptable -- He who serves best profits most. Life is good when your customers are thrilled with your service and products. We aren't perfect, but we try to be.

Mike White may not have spellcheck, but I trust him with my life. When I don't have Mike around to perform a final check before a track day I do it myself. There is no one better or more knowledgeable. The amazing thing is he now works for Pedders USA, LLC. Our Dealers are available to our clients by mobile phone, email and forums almost 24 x 7. There is a reason there is so much chatter about Pedders online. Our Dealers and company make a commitment to be here. They know that eXtreme customer service is a large part of the reason prospects become customers. We are more than just bits or technical data. We are an organization that cares deeply about our clients, our work and the communities were are involved in.

And our suspension systems are damn good too.

So are you going on the HRPT?

Pete, DMS,
I've sent you PMs.
Ed
I had an issue with the PMs today. You should have a reply in your box by now.

Got it Pete. Thanks.
I'll be talking on the phone with Frank again on Friday and if all goes as planned, we will be making plans to do a Street II on my GT.

I've had a chance to drive a Pedderized GTO and if the Pedderization of my G8 does for it what it did for the GTO, I don't know how I'll ever get the grin off my face!

Ed

That is precisely what we are hoping for with every car we Pedderise!

If any of you guys are near Cleveland, OH I would love to see your cars.

We are more than just bits or technical data.

I hope you are because from what I can tell there is no "technical."

What does it cost to have a car "Pedderised?"

I will be visiting family in NW PA in May. Maybe we can get together somehow. you would be welcome to check it out.

I think RED888 is from Ohio. maybe he can also help out.
Ed

Actually, hollow bars are stiffer than solid ones and less likely to twist, but solid bars are certainly easier to manufacture.

Not exactly. To further expand on the point made by KCJones (http://g8board.com/forums/member.php?u=1359), given the same outer diameter and same material properties, the solid bar will always be stiffer (resisting torsion) than the hollow bar. That being said, the exact center of a solid bar does not see any stress (it ramps up as you follow the radius line to the outside diameter). This means that when you go to a hollow bar, you loose some stiffness, but not a significant amount (depending on the wall thickness). The advantage of going to a hollow bar is that you loose the weight while retaining the majority of the stiffness (think of how heavy a 1-1/4" diameter solid sway bar would be in comparison to a 1-1/4" O.D. bar with a 1/4" thick wall). The smaller bars are definitely easier and cheaper to make solid, but as the size goes up the price of tubing vs. solid is almost a wash.

Not exactly. To further expand on the point made by KCJones (http://g8board.com/forums/member.php?u=1359), given the same outer diameter and same material properties, the solid bar will always be stiffer (resisting torsion) than the hollow bar. That being said, the exact center of a solid bar does not see any stress (it ramps up as you follow the radius line to the outside diameter). This means that when you go to a hollow bar, you loose some stiffness, but not a significant amount (depending on the wall thickness). The advantage of going to a hollow bar is that you loose the weight while retaining the majority of the stiffness (think of how heavy a 1-1/4" diameter solid sway bar would be in comparison to a 1-1/4" O.D. bar with a 1/4" thick wall). The smaller bars are definitely easier and cheaper to make solid, but as the size goes up the price of tubing vs. solid is almost a wash.

Sorry, but this is incorrect. A hollow bar will always be stiffer than a solid bar of the same diameter. There is a reason muscleheads bend solid bars with their bare hands and not hollow bars; it is easier. :)

Sorry, but this is incorrect. A hollow bar will always be stiffer than a solid bar of the same diameter.

Your statement refutes the information in every single one of my engineering texts and references. Show me the formulas to backup your statement.

There is a reason muscleheads bend solid bars with their bare hands and not hollow bars; it is easier.

This statement does not hold any water. It all depends on the material properties. You can anneal a steel bar (or tube for that matter), depending on the alloy, to the point where it is as soft as butter (relatively speaking). While this is also applicable to bending (as per your musclehead comment), I thought we were talking about torsion?

I spent several years at a heat treater testing material before and after heat treating. I happen to know a little about tensile strength.
If a hollow bar is superior in every way, then why make solid bars?
It's not cost, because to fold and tig weld is one operation.

Excellent point. This corresponds to the information I have.

Your statement refutes the information in every single one of my engineering texts and references. Show me the formulas to backup your statement.

This statement does not hold any water. It all depends on the material properties. You can anneal a steel bar (or tube for that matter), depending on the alloy, to the point where it is as soft as butter (relatively speaking). While this is also applicable to bending (as per your musclehead comment), I thought we were talking about torsion?

Yes, torsional force. Two surfaces (inside and outside) to overcome in a hollow bar rather than one. I'll research my references and get back to you.

Not to throw fuel into the proverbial fire, but OS X (and therefore Safari) has spell checking built in. :)

On the actual topic, what's the point of dyno testing a car with a new suspension? It's not as though it's going to make different hp/tq numbers. Or am I missing something here?

All of our pricing as well as dealer locations can be found here.http://www.peddersusa.com/
I may be doing an install at our Ohio dealer here shortly as well.

What does it cost to have a car "Pedderised?"

What problems are you having, what are yoru goals, and what is your budget?

If none of you guys get around to breaking anything before the manual transmission arrives and the test drive goes the way I think it will, here is what I would do:

With respect to the front suspension:

http://g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788

The first thing I would do is see if my front strut top bushes are worn out yet. It is, for the G8, the same GM part number as for the 04/05/06 GTO and some of those came off the boat already wore out. If you get clunking noises when chaging directions or discontinuous steerign response, this is a good place to start. And while you got the front suspension that far apart there is no need to pay the labor twice.

So front strut top bush becuase I know it to be crap already in a car that weighs less.

Next tension link bush. This is a fluid filled pillow that was the first problem area identified on the GTO. So now they call it a tension link instead of a radius rod. The physics remain the same. Under braking most of the entire weight of the car presses down on the front strut top bushes and the brake system (mostly) braces itself against the frame through the "tension link bush".

I dunno why Mike and Pete aren't preaching about the tension link bush yet, but knowing those boys the part will be here before the M6.

Next, while it out of the car anyway, ask your self if the front struts are good enough to put back in the car. This is where your budget and goals come in. If you are at 2,000 miles with busted strut top bushes but your wife really like the ride, put the stockers back in.


To me the next question is the lateral link bush. With the struts out anyway, replacing that bush pair is relatively cheap. If I sew it back up and have to crack the front suspension again later for the one bushing that is still stock I am gonna be pissed.

Last is spring and bar. I am a rank amateur at suspension design. I drive long distance (30k+ miles) every year and I like to play on twisties when I have time. What works for me is stock springs for floating down the highway and big sway bars to take cornering with me. If you are building a big motor your car will porbably be better balanced with lots of spring and maybe just the factory sway bar. If you want a little of this and a little of that you maybe wanna go medium on everything. I haven't driven a G8 to know how undersprung it is from the factory. I can't make the call for you. If you don't know the equation for sway bar stiffness I suggest you take some test rides.

WRT the rear suspension:

http://g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10388

What I am hearing from guys have already opened their motors is the rear end likes to step out. I find this to be an extremely nasty habit at what I consider reasonable expressway speeds and I won't have it. The four (brown) suspension to frame bushes will be replaced on my car more or less immediately.

I am curious to see how the diff is fastened to the suspension frame, if there is some kind of diff bush or insert bush to finish channeling the horses to the pavement. With power train forces properly directed my next question is what takes up the twisting force under acceleration, under braking, and when cornering. It ends up being every bush under there, and we're back around to bar and spring.

Bang for the buck, the 85% of results with 15% of the parts - just from an amatuer looking at pictures:

Front strut top bushes with new bearings.
Front tension link bushes
Rear suspension to frame bushes (4 total)

?? differential mount ??

From there, a lot of the bushes under the car are smaller than a golf ball, and a few are bigger than your fist. Replace all the big ones if you can't afford to just replace all of them.

Then +/- labor.

Thanks for this. A lot of understanding here as I have replaced bushings, springs, sway bars, shocks, trailing arms, and other components one at a time in the past and noticed their individual effects upon my vehicle. I may start with springs, then sway bars, then depending on the results, more.

Very interested in your descriptions of the minimum replacement of certain bushings. It appears that there are defective (or under-engineered?) components coming from the factory? I guess that makes sense, in spite of me thinking that GM/Holden would not fall short in this area. If so, those look to be quick kills satisfying the 80/20 rule. Again, I appreciate your input.

Bottom line, I am leery of a replace-everything-wholesale approach as I then I have no idea which component had what effect upon the ride and handling of my vehicle. The downside of this approach (replacing things one at a time) is until I find my ultimate setup, I am driving a vehicle that is "in process." The upside of this approach is that I know the exact effect of the component I installed.

After going to Pedders' site and seeing their extensive history and commitment, I have decided that I would like to drive a G8 equipped with their gear. If there is someone in SoCal who would like to drive their Pedders equipped G8 down here for a ride-and-drive, I would certainly show for it.

One last comment to the Pedders people - you have to understand, all we know here are top components manufacturers (i.e. Koni, Hotchkis, Eibach, etc.) and you are an unknown for most of us. You should tone down your response/attacks and start pointing people to links in your web site that showcase your extensive experience and expertise. That approach would be much better received than your present one, in my opinion.

Cheers - :driving:

What problems are you having, what are yoru goals, and what is your budget?

If none of you guys get around to breaking anything before the manual transmission arrives and the test drive goes the way I think it will, here is what I would do:

With respect to the front suspension:

http://g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788

The first thing I would do is see if my front strut top bushes are worn out yet. It is, for the G8, the same GM part number as for the 04/05/06 GTO and some of those came off the boat already wore out. If you get clunking noises when chaging directions or discontinuous steerign response, this is a good place to start. And while you got the front suspension that far apart there is no need to pay the labor twice.

So front strut top bush becuase I know it to be crap already in a car that weighs less.

Next tension link bush. This is a fluid filled pillow that was the first problem area identified on the GTO. So now they call it a tension link instead of a radius rod. The physics remain the same. Under braking most of the entire weight of the car presses down on the front strut top bushes and the brake system (mostly) braces itself against the frame through the "tension link bush".

I dunno why Mike and Pete aren't preaching about the tension link bush yet, but knowing those boys the part will be here before the M6.

Next, while it out of the car anyway, ask your self if the front struts are good enough to put back in the car. This is where your budget and goals come in. If you are at 2,000 miles with busted strut top bushes but your wife really like the ride, put the stockers back in.


To me the next question is the lateral link bush. With the struts out anyway, replacing that bush pair is relatively cheap. If I sew it back up and have to crack the front suspension again later for the one bushing that is still stock I am gonna be pissed.

Last is spring and bar. I am a rank amateur at suspension design. I drive long distance (30k+ miles) every year and I like to play on twisties when I have time. What works for me is stock springs for floating down the highway and big sway bars to take cornering with me. If you are building a big motor your car will porbably be better balanced with lots of spring and maybe just the factory sway bar. If you want a little of this and a little of that you maybe wanna go medium on everything. I haven't driven a G8 to know how undersprung it is from the factory. I can't make the call for you. If you don't know the equation for sway bar stiffness I suggest you take some test rides.

WRT the rear suspension:

http://g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10388

What I am hearing from guys have already opened their motors is the rear end likes to step out. I find this to be an extremely nasty habit at what I consider reasonable expressway speeds and I won't have it. The four (brown) suspension to frame bushes will be replaced on my car more or less immediately.

I am curious to see how the diff is fastened to the suspension frame, if there is some kind of diff bush or insert bush to finish channeling the horses to the pavement. With power train forces properly directed my next question is what takes up the twisting force under acceleration, under braking, and when cornering. It ends up being every bush under there, and we're back around to bar and spring.

Bang for the buck, the 85% of results with 15% of the parts - just from an amatuer looking at pictures:

Front strut top bushes with new bearings.
Front tension link bushes
Rear suspension to frame bushes (4 total)

?? differential mount ??

From there, a lot of the bushes under the car are smaller than a golf ball, and a few are bigger than your fist. Replace all the big ones if you can't afford to just replace all of them.

Then +/- labor.

thanks for this

Ahh, but I don't do my own labor. I drive around hospital to hospital, three months at a time setting up surgical laboratories and teaching people how to use the new equipment. I just can't show up at work with bloody knuckles, it is not an option.

For me, the price of the little bushings on top of taking the suspension apart and doing the big bushings anyway, is peanuts. This time I am only paying to have the suspension opened once.

I think, as do many GTO owners, the boat ride over is/was very hard on the car. Springs and front strut top bushes especially. The 2004s shipped with some plastic blocks in between the spring coils, so when the car was strapped down in the boat all the force of the tie straps was compressing the front strut top bushes...

I haven't driven a G8 yet. When I get one I am not going to screw around, I need to drive it off the lot and straight up an on ramp.

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1695
Check out Mike Haddad in LA, he is one of our dealers that has actually bought the G8, which will also show you our commitment.

As for our responses, I tend to go by the get what you give, and if i'm responded to in a respectful manner I respond in the same way. Where as If i'm responded to in a less than respectful manner i may tend to poke back or stop responding.

All of us (Pedders guys) are well respected people in the GTO community, I understand that many people don't know who we are on the G8 board, but if you could give us the benefit of the doubt i'd appreciate it. I can assure you that we won't let you or the community down.

I've lived in California (San Diego, to be exact) for 25 years and can count on one hand how many times I have been to L.A. I prefer to fly over or drive around than deal with that wonderful traffic. But if there are no Pedders-equipped G8's in SanDog when it comes time to address the suspension, I may just have to make one more trip to the city of 11mph freeway speeds. :burnout:

I look forward to hearing more from you guys. And let me know when you're ready to discuss your spring rates. :p

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1695
Check out Mike Haddad in LA, he is one of our dealers that has actually bought the G8, which will also show you our commitment.

As for our responses, I tend to go by the get what you give, and if i'm responded to in a respectful manner I respond in the same way. Where as If i'm responded to in a less than respectful manner i may tend to poke back or stop responding.

All of us (Pedders guys) are well respected people in the GTO community, I understand that many people don't know who we are on the G8 board, but if you could give us the benefit of the doubt i'd appreciate it. I can assure you that we won't let you or the community down.

Hey, I lived in Mission Beach 28 years ago. I knew then what you know now about traffic. Good thing you don't drive a whole lot. It's terrible if you're not in the "right" ride. I'll be down there shortly, if you want to check mine out. Just let me know.

I've lived in California (San Diego, to be exact) for 25 years and can count on one hand how many times I have been to L.A. I prefer to fly over or drive around than deal with that wonderful traffic. But if there are no Pedders-equipped G8's in SanDog when it comes time to address the suspension, I may just have to make one more trip to the city of 11mph freeway speeds. :burnout:

I look forward to hearing more from you guys. And let me know when you're ready to discuss your spring rates. :p

I am working on a dealership currently in San Diego as I speak. Should know thier status in 5 days or so

the question was asked about the rear diff bushes. The movement that we have been talking about is primarily the rear cradle bushes. There are also 3 bushings that attach the rear diff to the cradle. We have those bushes as well. pete installed them on his G8 tonight. I will let pete describe the successes in his posts.

mike
dms

Ahh, but I don't do my own labor. I drive around hospital to hospital, three months at a time setting up surgical laboratories and teaching people how to use the new equipment. I just can't show up at work with bloody knuckles, it is not an option.

For me, the price of the little bushings on top of taking the suspension apart and doing the big bushings anyway, is peanuts. This time I am only paying to have the suspension opened once.

I think, as do many GTO owners, the boat ride over is/was very hard on the car. Springs and front strut top bushes especially. The 2004s shipped with some plastic blocks in between the spring coils, so when the car was strapped down in the boat all the force of the tie straps was compressing the front strut top bushes...

I haven't driven a G8 yet. When I get one I am not going to screw around, I need to drive it off the lot and straight up an on ramp.


they are shipping the G8 in the exact same way

time will tell on the springs and bush issues

mike
dms

I didn't read the whole thread because honestly any posts I read in a negative manner towards Pete or Pedder's doesn't deserve my time.

If you have meet Pete than you would understand. Honest, up front, VERY Intelligent and knows suspension like no one I've ever meet. He carries himself and his business with the upmost class.

I have meet him in person, he's even paid for beer and wings. He also received a bunch of my cash for my suspension on my GTO. It was worth absolutely every dollar. If he says something is worth it, it is.

If someone that owns a very successfull business selling Suspension components tells me something, I'm going to listen to what they say. I don't need to know rates, solid, hollow, tensile strength, blah, blah, blah. Ask a straight question, get a straight answer and you'll be happy Trust Everyone that has every paid a dollar of their own hard earned money on a Pedders part. Trust me I've NEVER heard of anyone dissapointed.

You don't care to know how it works as long as it works. Your car, your money, you are happy, good for you.

The part I find amusing is this, "Ask a straight question, get a straight answer..."

It doesn't get much straighter than "what spring rate do you use?" The answer(s) that have been given have been anything but straight.

You may not have heard dissappointment, but I have. People I respect, that have no reason to be dishonest, and do not sell autoparts have warned me to stay away from Pedders' products.

So it's Pedders this and Pedders that....now that you've got my attention, tell me the specs of your system.

Some basic questions -

1) How much does the system lower the vehicle, front and rear?

2) What are the spring rates of: (a) the stock springs, and (b) the Pedders springs, front and rear?

3) What are the diameters of: (a) the stock sway bars, and (b) the Pedders sway bars, front and rear?

Thanks! :driving:

I even left him space between my questions to answer. :judge:

You don't care to know how it works as long as it works. Your car, your money, you are happy, good for you.

The part I find amusing is this, "Ask a straight question, get a straight answer..."

It doesn't get much straighter than "what spring rate do you use?" The answer(s) that have been given have been anything but straight.

You may not have heard dissappointment, but I have. People I respect, that have no reason to be dishonest, and do not sell autoparts have warned me to stay away from Pedders' products.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I can tell you, we are, by far, the most dominate suspension supplier for the GTO, by massive, huge numbers. Our warranty issues are close to non existant, and the majority of the warranty parts that we have done, have a direct relationship to poeple putting things in incorrectly. But we still took care of it. We are the only suspension company that I am aware of that will warranty our parts whether they are tracked or not. I do not think any other susepsnion company will honor their warranties if a vehicle is tracked.

Can we satisfy everyone. Absolutely not. But we try our best and have a extremely satisfied, and loyal customer base that we are very proud of. Also, you might note, that we re the only supplier.manufacturer of suspension products that are on the forums, and supporting the differenct communities.

Pedders spends more in R&D than many companies in Au with their gross sales. Look at, for example, a GTO with Eibach springs. Look and see how many "dead coils" they use. You will probably find they are actualy only using 1 active coil. Throw a couple of guys in the back seat, and you are riding on the bump stops. Do the same inspection on a Pedders spring.

Pedders keeps a lot of the specs and such private and in house. That is their decision. However, the way we have grown so much is putting our money where our mouth is. have systems installed on cars, and let everyone drive them and compare. There is sooo much "irregular" or unsubstantiated info out there about rates and such. There is soo much more to coil springs than max spring rates. We make our springs differently than others, and to be honest, let the competition do their own R&R. There is also soo much more to a suspension system than the coils. Having components designed to complement each other is a big deal. We have done mutliple test fits and testings on G8 in our constant desire to make the absolute berst product that can be made. The results have been impressive. Our adjustable coil over is amazing. It complements the design functions of the ZETA platform quite well.

So all I can ask of you is before you give final judgement, take the time to check out a Pedderized G8 and then give us your impressions

mike
dms

I've lived in California (San Diego, to be exact) for 25 years and can count on one hand how many times I have been to L.A. I prefer to fly over or drive around than deal with that wonderful traffic. But if there are no Pedders-equipped G8's in SanDog when it comes time to address the suspension, I may just have to make one more trip to the city of 11mph freeway speeds. :burnout:

I look forward to hearing more from you guys. And let me know when you're ready to discuss your spring rates. :p

WE ARE WORKING ON GETTING A DEALER IN SAN DIEGO AS I TYPE. WE DO NOT SIGN UP DEALERS HAP HAZZARDLY

MORE TO COME ON THIS

MIKE
DMS

Yet another "straight answer"...

Large does not equate to quality.

I have seen the video online from the Pedders spring manufacturing line, looked like every other spring process I have ever been involved in.

It is obvious to me that Pedders as a company is not a good fit for me, but that is because I know what I want to buy and I know how suspension systems work. Springs are not a secret ingredient in a system. The fact that that simple "straight question" will not be answered with a "straight answer" leads me to believe that the Pedders reps that post here do not know what they are selling other than a product with HUGE margins.

Pedders: "Monroe" quality at "Koni" prices :)

Rustang, I find it so funny how this Pedders thing has you so bent out of shape...cracks me up as it does many other board members. However, if you have any additional issues with Sponsors/Member?etc, can you please PM your problems to them? Unless, of course, you have something to say that WILL benefit the board. I hate to be the one to open up and point this out, but you just destroying threads. Granted, boards are a place for car owners/fans to get together to DISCUSS ideas...not shoot down other members or sponsors. And before you call me out, I DO NOT have any affiliation with any Sponsors on this board...I am just tired of reading threads that you have DESTROYED. So as a member of the board, can you please become part of the solution rather than part of the problem and chill?

Lets just talk about the cars and swap ideas...not destroy the credibility of the Sponsors.

I am off of my soap box now.

And sorry for contributing to the hi-jacking of this thread...please forgive!:angel:

Thank you. Reading some topics has become tiresome.

Not bent out of shape. Bored at work. There are three threads that I have been active in that have turned into trainwrecks. The Pedders, the steering wheel, and the VIM thread. I have questions. I don't believe sponsors should have free reign. If they are selling snake oil, they should be called on it. I was genuinely interested in the Pedders stuff in the beginning, I asked questions that I felt were important and was told, by the rep, basically "you don't need to know that, just believe me..." The other two, mods were deleting things for "rules violations" that were not in the rules.

Sorry that is BS.

I will quit now, the Pedders guys can all line up and get their a$$ tatoos and I will not interfere. :)

Can we all play nice now?

Rstang,
Here is my 2 cents worth....
You asked valid questions about things that are important to you, and it looks like to some others also. Pedders feels that they spent time and money developing suspension "systems" (springs, struts, bars, bushings, etc. that work together), not just pieces to be put together in a piece-meal manner. They see their system data as proprietary and that is entirely their right. It is obvious to even the casual reader that they are not going to release these numbers. No point in asking any further.

It sounds like they are saying, rather than look at the individual pieces in a vacuum, try one of their systems in a car at a dealer or "meet" they are attending and see for yourself if it is right for you. This holds true for anybody else that is interested too.

You sound like you may be more knowledgeable than most and perhaps the numbers you are looking for would actually be of value to you. I'm an engineer and I like to know the number and ins-and-outs of my projects too. Sometimes I can't get them for exactly the same reasons Pedders gives. In these cases it is up to me to either accept that fact and try the product or move on. In my profession, I've done both based upon the situation. Dealing with know, proven, respectable suppliers helps make the decision easier. We get electronic parts all the time to try them and see if they function as advertised and if they meet our requirements. The maker, however, won't tell me a lot about the details of the inner-most workings of their chips.
I don't think Peddlers is going to budge either.

No offense intended and I hope none was taken. This is just how it looks to me and maybe it doesn't bother me because I'm used to it with other proprietary data situations where you basically trust the reputations and prior results from vendors.
Ed

Ahh, but I don't do my own labor. I drive around hospital to hospital, three months at a time setting up surgical laboratories and teaching people how to use the new equipment. I just can't show up at work with bloody knuckles, it is not an option.

For me, the price of the little bushings on top of taking the suspension apart and doing the big bushings anyway, is peanuts. This time I am only paying to have the suspension opened once.

I think, as do many GTO owners, the boat ride over is/was very hard on the car. Springs and front strut top bushes especially. The 2004s shipped with some plastic blocks in between the spring coils, so when the car was strapped down in the boat all the force of the tie straps was compressing the front strut top bushes...

I haven't driven a G8 yet. When I get one I am not going to screw around, I need to drive it off the lot and straight up an on ramp.Do you know SWMN from the GTO board. He is in the medical field. He follows a similar pattern of duty stations hospital to hospital. He i currently in Alaska.

You may not have heard dissappointment, but I have. People I respect, that have no reason to be dishonest, and do not sell autoparts have warned me to stay away from Pedders' products.

Now this has to be the most offensive statement I have ever read regarding my company on a forum. We are accessable, we participate in the communities of the vehciles we support, we have dedicated dealers, provide a labor warranty for Pedders bits that are installed by Pedders Shops, we have NO racing or speed contest exclussions, we make test vehicles available for demonstartions and you come up with this trash talk.

No one should ever be dissapointed with a Pedders product. We make the bits and we make the vehicles available for you to test drive before you buy. I have a new way of dealing with people like you. You have been banned from buying Pedders bits. You don't deserve them and I as the manufacturer don't want your money.

Attention all Pedders Dealers: Do not sell my parts to this guy or anyone else who does not respect you as a dealer, Pedders staff memebers and Pedders products. They don't deserve your time or my bits.

Case closed.

10-4

Wow,
Obviuosly you're people have no idea what Pedderising a G8 can do. And, that's good. As for me, I know.

I thought this place would be a bit friendlier than the vwvortex forums I am on, but alas, wherever a person can flex their internet muscles and wit, friendliness goes right out of the virtual internet window. :(

Welcome to all.

MAY 31TH IS PEDDERS DAY IN LAS VEGAS!


I am excited to announce a new Pedders location in Las Vegas. We have changed branches of the Wiens Tire Company. This store is their corporate office, and the people there are very familiar with suspension mods, custom wheels, and they are making a really cool rock climber. A must See!!

The Pedders event is May 31th, a Saturday, and all are invited. here is the location:

Ted Wiens Tire and Auto Center
1701 Las Vegas Blvd
Las Vegas
(702) 735-5656
WWW.TEDWIENS.COM
COLLIN WOOLSEY STORE MANAGER 702-735-5656
MANNY LAURIAN 702-735-5656, front end sales


Pete and I will be there most of the week for one on one training. We need a G8 for a Track or Extreme Track install for training purposes. We will give you a 20& off parts and labor, and will be personally supervised by me, DMS.


We will offer 28 point inspections, free food, free fun, and all of you can get a chance to meet the guys at the new Weins Pedders store. With my involvment at this store, we will have great success and support to one of th countries greatest car towns!

So see you all there

Mike
dms
__________________

OK, who has a Vegas based G8? My guess is this is the best opportunity you will have to get a deal on a G8 suspension. We could use a G8 and a GTO for the Pedders Shop Certification. Contact Mike White a.k.a. DMS to schedule your G8 or GTO.

We now have a number of G8's out there with full sysems. Here is a link showing you before and after pictures on at least 1 G8 that I did, and multiple pictures of 3 others.http://www.peddersusa.com/Pontiac%20G8%20Zeta.htm

If you have any questions, please ask

Still looking for a G8 for Las Vegas!!!

mike
dms

Here's a link to the story about my Pedders Track II system:

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2464

Welcome to all.
NOTE:::: DATE HAS CHANGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MAY 31TH IS PEDDERS DAY IN LAS VEGAS!


I am excited to announce a new Pedders location in Las Vegas. We have changed branches of the Wiens Tire Company. This store is their corporate office, and the people there are very familiar with suspension mods, custom wheels, and they are making a really cool rock climber. A must See!!

The Pedders event is May 31th, a Saturday, and all are invited. here is the location:

Ted Wiens Tire and Auto Center
1701 Las Vegas Blvd
Las Vegas
(702) 735-5656
WWW.TEDWIENS.COM
COLLIN WOOLSEY STORE MANAGER 702-735-5656
MANNY LAURIAN 702-735-5656, front end sales


Pete and I will be there most of the week for one on one training. We need a G8 for a Track or Extreme Track install for training purposes. We will give you a 20& off parts and labor, and will be personally supervised by me, DMS.


We will offer 28 point inspections, free food, free fun, and all of you can get a chance to meet the guys at the new Weins Pedders store. With my involvment at this store, we will have great success and support to one of th countries greatest car towns!

So see you all there

Mike
dms
__________________


Still looking for the training vehicle for Las Vegas. Just ask if you have any questions

thanks
mike
dms

Here is a customer's response on the most recent Pedders Track system installed. Here is a great opportunity for any of you to pm him and ask him any question that you would like

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2464

thanks

mike
dms

Here is a customer's response on the most recent Pedders Track system installed. Here is a great opportunity for any of you to pm him and ask him any question that you would like

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2464

thanks

mike
dms

I wish you would stop with this cut and paste crap into multiple threads. It reflects poorly on your cause and makes you look ridiculous.

I wish you would stop with this cut and paste crap into multiple threads. It reflects poorly on your cause and makes you look ridiculous.

Maybe you should get different sun glasses. They do not fit you

mike

Here's a link to the story about my Pedders Track II system:

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2464
How is your Pedderised G8 on day three?

Maybe you should get different sun glasses. They do not fit you

mike

lol, Mike made a joke! that's funny.

lol, Mike made a joke! that's funny.

Yah,
With a glass of Rombauer, I loosened up .Rob, your new my space site is really cool. You definately have a lot of talent there. Great job!!

mike
dms

Since it has been made known that the actual specifications of the parts are "secret" how about sharing some handling numbers? Track times, slalom times, lane changes, skid pad, etc. Standard thgings that would show if there is really any improvement over stock other than a lighter wallet.

Since it has been made known that the actual specifications of the parts are "secret" how about sharing some handling numbers? Track times, slalom times, lane changes, skid pad, etc. Standard thgings that would show if there is really any improvement over stock other than a lighter wallet.

I think this would be good info to have to see what improvements are made over stock.

Here's my 2 cents: I had never heard of Pedders until I joined this forum. I joined the forum after I purchased and took delivery of my G8-GT. I checked out their website, their parts and MOST IMPORTANT, their warranty. Personally, I am VERY impressed... but this is just my OPINION. It is not a fact, only my opinion. Why do people offer opinions as fact? I don't give a crap if someone can't spell; I only care if the parts are good and the warranty is good. If you don't want to buy someone's parts, then don't. But you should NOT bash a company unless they did something dishonest or unethical or misleading to you AND refused to fix the problem. Then, you should provide specific details, so everyone can form their own opinion. I also realize that there are certain people you can never make happy, that's just life. Our society has become: "my friend's, friend's, friend said something bad about ABC Company and so I am going to bash the company too. What crap. By the way, I can't believe we have so many experts here on cars. All these specs, and torsion discussions and such technical stuff, my oh my. By the way, my family and I know a little something about cars, but that's just between us... you know, mature adults.

well put, thank you.

By the way, my family and I know a little something about cars, but that's just between us... you know, mature adults.

If you are actually part of the Granatelli family with motorsport heritage then previous generations are an important part of automotive history. Whomever is in charge at GMS now and posts on many forums under JR Granatelli is an idiot. I didn't mean it as a compliment earlier when I asked if JP went to the GMS school of marketing.

If you'd like to meet me to discuss, I'll be at Indy on May 25th. By the way, my family has many idiots... but they're all on my wife's side.

Unfortunately, for the first time out of the last five years I will not be able to attend the race. Maybe another time.

Are you the famed JR?

If you'd like to meet me to discuss, I'll be at Indy on May 25th. By the way, my family has many idiots... but they're all on my wife's side.

I'll be there on the 25th.
My dad was a race mechanic back in the day. I met A Granitelli and Richard Petty when I was very young in Riverside Ca.

PEDDERS
I like to know SPRING RATE #??? Front and Rear ??? N/mm or kgf/mm ?????

Thank you

dede, I'm going to assume that your the same person from ls1gto.com, and i'm going to assume that you've read this thread, and it has become clear that we don't release that for a number of reasons. Both on the GTO and on the G8, and every other car we make parts for, we don't release the spring rates.

Thank you.

dede, I'm going to assume that your the same person from ls1gto.com, and i'm going to assume that you've read this thread, and it has become clear that we don't release that for a number of reasons. Both on the GTO and on the G8, and every other car we make parts for, we don't release the spring rates.

Thank you.

yes, yes and yes...
but i was hoping you guys actually are going to come out with those numbers because by using the definition "better than stock" is not quite working for me since I want to be able to have at least some point of comparision for that suspension versus other suspensions.

And also when are you guys going to start measuring the height from the center of the wheel so that you(I) won't have to be tied to the size of the rim and the brand of the rim for that matter.

lol, sorry, nope.

As for measuring the heights, the variances in different rims all of the same size is very minimal, and If you look at my site in the GTO section, I list the heights for all of the rim sizes to make it easier for everyone.

I understand everyone wanting the numbers, but Pedders isn't going to release them, so it's just something that is going have to be accepted.

ps, i've been watching your Stereo Mods, you have talent.

I understand everyone wanting the numbers, but Pedders isn't going to release them, so it's just something that is going have to be accepted.
.

or i'll just go with other suspensions, with numbers :secret: :wink2:

bastard, lol

:ohsnap1:

or i'll just go with other suspensions, with numbers :secret: :wink2:

hey dede, how are you? been a while since we chatted at SEMA. Hope all is going well

mike
dms