Can anyone who works for GM/knows someone who does confirm that the torque management is to stop the tranny or rear end from failing and not just to make shifts more smooth and comfortable for people who are all about the lexus style shifts(mushy and undetectable)

My cousin has a 96 impala ss and has had torque management completely removed for like 10 years and autocrosses, road races, drag races the thing so he beats it. its still just fine.

Ive removed mine as well.. the place who tuned my car has no reason to believe this will mess up the trans, but theres so much talk on here about how the torque management is to save the trans from self destructing (seems like its mostly posts from vendors who sell tuners that allow adjustment of torque managment rather than enable/disable) I wonder who is correct.

Can anyone who knows for sure chime in here? again preferably someone who works for GM or knows someone who does, or just anyone who knows or has destroyed a tranny by removing it.

I have yet to hear of removal of torque management ruining a trans, just rumors that it will.

It will allow the transmission to last longer. With it disabled you may be changing the transmission earlier. That said, I have it turned down too.

I have my TM set to 75% in the tune. Tranny shifts a little harder but still maintains that smooth shift when cruising, so it's not too bad!

I think it's for both reasons, to allow smooth shifts AND to stop the driveline stress. I removed mine too, but I think it's better for the clutch packs to engage firmly than slowly, which causes slipping and could wear out the clutch material.

If we're hurting the trannys by minimizing TM or disabling it all together and the dealer notices tranny problems, won't they attribute that to the custom tune and void the replacement tranny?

yes it will void the warranty if the problem was caused by the trans tune, and i also have mine turned of in sport mode and sportshift mode, but have full tm in reg. drive

I think it's for both reasons, to allow smooth shifts AND to stop the driveline stress. I removed mine too, but I think it's better for the clutch packs to engage firmly than slowly, which causes slipping and could wear out the clutch material.

Im with you on that 100%, but at the same time i could see where full power while shifting could increase the wear on the clutches, but the slow engagment is definately worse for the clutch packs i would think.

If we're hurting the trannys by minimizing TM or disabling it all together and the dealer notices tranny problems, won't they attribute that to the custom tune and void the replacement tranny?

I would say they would deny the warranty. Im gonna be honest, im not gonna expect GM to pick up the tab on something that broke because I have obviously modified it to make more power/speed and have abused the part in question. However, I dont believe that other things should be not honered under warranty because of mods that are irrelevant.

ex. i add 200 hp to the car and remove torque management and the clutch packs wear out and/or the rear end takes a ****. I would not expect GM to cover that, you wanna play you gotta pay. **** wears out when you abuse it. But at the same time they shouldnt deny covering a bad sensor because of my mods.(which by the way i have had a couple replaced under warranty with mods clearly in view or apparent after driving which is a good sign and arent being total jags about it)

Im prepared to replace trans or rear end a little earlier then necessary, and Im sure if it was over 80Kmiles dealer might right it off as wear and tear. Trans goes out at 15k miles good luck explaining your mods didnt do it. However I dont want a brand new tranny or rear end being completely destroyed(as opposed to just worn out after so many years of use)

Thanks for the replies guys. anyone else got anything on TM?

yes it will void the warranty if the problem was caused by the trans tune, and i also have mine turned of in sport mode and sportshift mode, but have full tm in reg. drive

Yes, but what if you put the stock tune back on?

Im with you on that 100%, but at the same time i could see where full power while shifting could increase the wear on the clutches, but the slow engagment is definately worse for the clutch packs i would think.



I would say they would deny the warranty. Im gonna be honest, im not gonna expect GM to pick up the tab on something that broke because I have obviously modified it to make more power/speed and have abused the part in question. However, I dont believe that other things should be not honered under warranty because of mods that are irrelevant.

ex. i add 200 hp to the car and remove torque management and the clutch packs wear out and/or the rear end takes a ****. I would not expect GM to cover that, you wanna play you gotta pay. **** wears out when you abuse it. But at the same time they shouldnt deny covering a bad sensor because of my mods.(which by the way i have had a couple replaced under warranty with mods clearly in view or apparent after driving which is a good sign and arent being total jags about it)

Im prepared to replace trans or rear end a little earlier then necessary, and Im sure if it was over 80Kmiles dealer might right it off as wear and tear. Trans goes out at 15k miles good luck explaining your mods didnt do it. However I dont want a brand new tranny or rear end being completely destroyed(as opposed to just worn out after so many years of use)

Thanks for the replies guys. anyone else got anything on TM?

Now hypothetically...how long would it take for the tranny to wear out? My G8 is not a daily driver and when I drive I don't beat on it unless I am street racing someone ( which by the way you shouldn't do :P ). I put less than 5k miles a year on my garage-kept cars.

I have my TM set to 75% in the tune. Tranny shifts a little harder but still maintains that smooth shift when cruising, so it's not too bad!

for sure i have all torque management removed and its still pretty smooth under light throttle...mid throttle and WOT are a different story...:gears:

Yes, but what if you put the stock tune back on?

you cant fool them, all they have to do is compare the number of times your ECM/TCM has been flashed with the number of times the dealers have flashed it (which they keep on file for updates)

spare ecm/tcm may have a chance...

spare ecm/tcm may have a chance...

How do you get that?

Yes, but what if you put the stock tune back on?



Now hypothetically...how long would it take for the tranny to wear out? My G8 is not a daily driver and when I drive I don't beat on it unless I am street racing someone ( which by the way you shouldn't do :P ). I put less than 5k miles a year on my garage-kept cars.

not sure here but the easier you drive it the longer it will last...obviously the harder you drive it especially if its all the time its gonna wear out faster.

not sure here but the easier you drive it the longer it will last...obviously the harder you drive it especially if its all the time its gonna wear out faster.

Understandable.

I just don't see how they can build a tranny that won't handle a little abuse and will fail after lets say 30K miles. That's a little absurd!

Lets think back years ago before ECM/TCM's existed. They didn't have TQ Management. People modded the hell out of cars.

How do you get that?
just buy a replacement one...the problem is getting the flashs the car has had at the dealer on there. once the car has had an update, how do you convince them to do it again to log it into the spare ecm/tcm. maybe with hp tuners and some creativity you may be able to pull something off?

Understandable.

I just don't see how they can build a tranny that won't handle a little abuse and will fail after lets say 30K miles. That's a little absurd!

Lets think back years ago before ECM/TCM's existed. They didn't have TQ Management. People modded the hell out of cars.

Yes!!! this is exactly my point! there was no TM on my old mans 70 firebird which he liberally beat the piss out of (burnouts, WOT romps for miles starting from a stand still). no trans problems.

I heard that these transmissions were tested without TM then added for ride quality but im not sure im trying to confirm it on this thread. I think its more of a ride quality thing for the pansies who dont want to know when the car has shifted. after all this car competes against some high end luxury cars that shift like this.

im sure having to stand behind a 100K mile powertrain warranty has its role here...after all burnt clutch packs would be a warranty replacement

just buy a replacement one...the problem is getting the flashs the car has had at the dealer on there. once the car has had an update, how do you convince them to do it again to log it into the spare ecm/tcm. maybe with hp tuners and some creativity you may be able to pull something off?

I'm just gonna flow with my 75% TM. I'm not going with any extreme power adders. I completed what I wanted which was the CAI and the catback exhaust. Now it's just about the appearance mods. I don't drive the car much, and I'm easy on it I'd say 90% of the time.

What happens, happens. That's the way the cookie crumbles I guess.

Yes!!! this is exactly my point! there was no TM on my old mans 70 firebird which he liberally beat the piss out of (burnouts, WOT romps for miles starting from a stand still). no trans problems.

I heard that these transmissions were tested without TM then added for ride quality but im not sure im trying to confirm it on this thread. I think its more of a ride quality thing for the pansies who dont want to know when the car has shifted. after all this car competes against some high end luxury cars that shift like this.

Lets hope your right!

If I had to give you an answer, without knowing for sure, I'd have to agree with you. Logically it makes sense. You have all the power in the world, but they bottle it up so it feels good for the Average Joe who thinks the tranny might be failing on him when it shifts too hard!

I'm just gonna flow with my 75% TM. I'm not going with any extreme power adders. I completed what I wanted which was the CAI and the catback exhaust. Now it's just about the appearance mods. I don't drive the car much, and I'm easy on it I'd say 90% of the time.

What happens, happens. That's the way the cookie crumbles I guess.

you will live a long stress free life with that attitude my friend. thats the way to be. not worrying about every little tick and creak the car makes like most people do.

If your that easy on the car I would imagine it will live for years on 75% TM

you will live a long stress free life with that attitude my friend. thats the way to be. not worrying about every little tick and creak the car makes like most people do.

If your that easy on the car I would imagine it will live for years on 75% TM

You are absolutely right!

And yes...I only drive it when the weather is nice out, typically spring/summer/fall and when I do, I'm usually easy on it with the occasional burnout and street race.

you cant fool them, all they have to do is compare the number of times your ECM/TCM has been flashed with the number of times the dealers have flashed it (which they keep on file for updates)

It's been posted several times that the flash counter hasn't been activated on our transmissions...yet.:wink2:

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?p=247510&highlight=flash+counter#post247510

TM was also added because traction control on these cars is a little slow. if you are driving even in a straight line on wet pavement and do the 1-2 shift with anymore then 50% throttle and TM off, your rear end brakes loose on the shift.

Interesting read.

TM was also added because traction control on these cars is a little slow. if you are driving even in a straight line on wet pavement and do the 1-2 shift with anymore then 50% throttle and TM off, your rear end brakes loose on the shift.

ahhh...good point. i noticed that it will break loose then ESP will catch you after the fact...not desireable for a 50 year old wife driving to church on sunday

most all of mine is gone....
these tranny are pretty tuff

you cant fool them, all they have to do is compare the number of times your ECM/TCM has been flashed with the number of times the dealers have flashed it (which they keep on file for updates)
A guy in here with a Superchips tune blew up his motor with less than 20K miles on it, and GM replaced the motor under warranty. He returned it back to the stock tune and they found no evidence of the car ever being tuned. The flash counter subject has been discussed in here many times and it seems they don't have a way to check that.

It's been posted several times that the flash counter hasn't been activated on our transmissions...yet.:wink2:

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?p=247510&highlight=flash+counter#post247510

perfect. thanks for the heads up!

A guy in here with a Superchips tune blew up his motor with less than 20K miles on it, and GM replaced the motor under warranty. He returned it back to the stock tune and they found no evidence of the car ever being tuned. The flash counter subject has been discussed in here many times and it seems they don't have a way to check that.

i hope they would replace that. theres no way anything the superchips tune does could have caused that. How the hell did a motor that new blow? What went on it?

still nothing on a driveline getting damaged, not worn from TM removed...

i hope they would replace that. theres no way anything the superchips tune does could have caused that. How the hell did a motor that new blow? What went on it?

Last I heard they were still investigating. You could probably PM the guy and see if they ever found out what went wrong.:dunno:

Post #112: http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?p=262789#post262789

Last I heard they were still investigating. You could probably PM the guy and see if they ever found out what went wrong.:dunno:

Post #112: http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?p=262789#post262789

thats nuts. that engine was built on a Monday morning:drink:

Well, I feel a little better!

He said the motor was making a loud knocking noise when he drove it to the dealer, and the dealer was running the motor trying to figure out the noise and it blew up.

i hope they would replace that. theres no way anything the superchips tune does could have caused that. How the hell did a motor that new blow? What went on it?

What was on it? Nothing I swear!!:wink2:

He just posted that it was a sheared rod cap.

He also said they were talking about maybe not warrantying it because even though the error codes were all there, they were in the wrong sequence. They did though.

Kind of hard for them to debate shearing a rod cap without evidence of a cam swap or forced induction in my opinion.:dunno:

My cousin has a 96 impala ss and has had torque management completely removed for like 10 years and autocrosses, road races, drag races the thing so he beats it. its still just fine.


I had a 1995 9C1 caprice and friends with ImpalaSSes, and was unaware that they had torque management. I know I had a friend firm up the shift pressure, but TQ management is news to me.

Hey everyone, it was my motor that went kaboom! Had the New Era OTR intake, New Era Tune, and HSRK.

It was NOT a result of my mods after further investigation. However, they were able to tell that I tampered with the "propulsion system" as they called it on my invoice, even after I put the car entirely back to stock.

So, from what I can tell, I got very lucky that this was warrantied and that my father worked for GM for 28 years and knows quite a few folks. I'm sure that played a part in it, plus the fact that it wasn't a result of overheating, spun bearing, abuse.

So, if *you* break it, you're definitely buying it :)
(probably also helped that another Pontiac dealer was the one who actually blew the engine up, I just towed it in for a ticking noise)

Looks like they can tell if you mess with your tune, even flashing back to stock. Not sure about VMS Stealth though...

^ there it is. you gotta pay to play. i was so happy when i read your first thread about them taking care of it! it is what it is

Hey everyone, it was my motor that went kaboom! Had the New Era OTR intake, New Era Tune, and HSRK.

It was NOT a result of my mods after further investigation. However, they were able to tell that I tampered with the "propulsion system" as they called it on my invoice, even after I put the car entirely back to stock.

So, from what I can tell, I got very lucky that this was warrantied and that my father worked for GM for 28 years and knows quite a few folks. I'm sure that played a part in it, plus the fact that it wasn't a result of overheating, spun bearing, abuse.

So, if *you* break it, you're definitely buying it :)
(probably also helped that another Pontiac dealer was the one who actually blew the engine up, I just towed it in for a ticking noise)

Looks like they can tell if you mess with your tune, even flashing back to stock. Not sure about VMS Stealth though...

What caused the engine damage, chain tensioner failure?

It actually raises more questions for me.

That was a NEP tune that I'm assuming was returned to stock via laptop? I wonder if that process/program differs from the way Superchips changes the tune? In other words, does the laptop method/program wipe everything when it removes the aftermarket tune and writes the stock tune back?

How does the Superchips change the tunes back and forth? Does it wipe the codes or does it use a different process? I've never tried flashing the tune while I had a CEL (mainly because I've only had a CEL a gas cap and that was before I got the Cortex).

I guess what I'm wondering is where are the codes are stored vs. the tune parameters and how will changing one would affect the other and do different ways over writing tunes have an effect? Just one of many things I wish I knew more about.:banghead::embarrassed:

It actually raises more questions for me.

That was a NEP tune that I'm assuming was returned to stock via laptop? I wonder if that process/program differs from the way Superchips changes the tune? In other words, does the laptop method/program wipe everything when it removes the aftermarket tune and writes the stock tune back?

How does the Superchips change the tunes back and forth? Does it wipe the codes or does it use a different process? I've never tried flashing the tune while I had a CEL (mainly because I've only had a CEL a gas cap and that was before I got the Cortex).

I guess what I'm wondering is where are the codes are stored vs. the tune parameters and how will changing one would affect the other and do different ways over writing tunes have an effect? Just one of many things I wish I knew more about.:banghead::embarrassed:

ROFL, your just full of questions...

Good questions though :)

ROFL, your just full of questions...

Good questions though :)

LOL...and you folks thought some of my answers were long.:p

I'm curious about the flash counter too, maybe Scott knows the answer to that.

I'm curious about the flash counter too, maybe Scott knows the answer to that.

I understood the flash counter to not be a problem. It isn't activated on our vehicles yet. I thought that was put to rest over a month ago.:confused:

In Majesticix's case, they said the codes were "out of sequence". That doesn't lead me to believe the flashes were being "counted" just that the codes weren't listed the way GM would expect them to be if something hadn't messed with them.

I took it as they expected certain codes to show up in a certain sequence and timeframe, i.e. when the problem first manifested itself X should trip before Y and Y should trip before Z. Instead, they got something like Y->Z->X showing up a little after the problem first happened. In other words, something cleared (or partially cleared) the first occurrence (the re-flash).:dunno:

But, then again, I've already admitted that I'm clueless when it comes to this and I'm just taking a shot in the dark. Ignore at will.:laugh:

That's what I meant, I just worded it wrong.

What caused the engine damage, chain tensioner failure?

The failure was the rod cap sheared off, right at the bolts.

That was a NEP tune that I'm assuming was returned to stock via laptop?

Yes Mike at New Era returned it to stock from his Laptop using HP Tuner

Sheared rod cap? thats messed up. did you drive the thing really hard? How can something like this happen on a NA car especially one with 20K miles on it? WTF? thats not cool at all

I had a 1995 9C1 caprice and friends with ImpalaSSes, and was unaware that they had torque management. I know I had a friend firm up the shift pressure, but TQ management is news to me.

Im pretty sure those cars had torque management, cause you could not break the tires loose on a launch for ****. He said he had it removed when I asked what he had done to the car years ago when I first rode in it.

only had 13,000 miles on it. Definitely did not beat this thing up. Drove pretty normal most of the time, and only raced it at the track once. This was a problem from the factory. No way with my minimal mods and driving could cause this problem. It can happen, just not often.

My Dad handled a customer years back that had the same problem with 30k miles on the car. Service manager was in the car listening to the ticking noise while driving with the customer and kaboom! **** happens, but very rare on these engines apparently.

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth. First, I'm not connected to GM but I've read some SAE engineering abstracts and kind of draw my own conclusions. The 6L80 is part of a 4 model line with torque capabilities ranging from 258-520 lb-ft. , the 6L80 rated for 430lb-ft. and a gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lbs. That seems like a sufficent capacity for the G8GT, even with some minor performance enhancments. That said, however, it's my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) the GXP has the higher rated 6L90 installed, the same as used of 2500 series Silverados and other high torque/load applications. GM obviously thought the need for increased durabilty was needed. Kind of makes me think that the TM system probably was used for long term issues. The slower clutch pack application probably does result insome additional wear but the driveline shock (chirp between shifts) certianly must stress the trans as well as all the remaining driveline pieces. Thoughts anyone?? or do you think this is just:bs:

My first tune had the torque management greatly reduced and after a week or two I hated it. It made for a real pain driving in the rain. The tires would spin out while going through turns. I also hated always being slammed into the seatback each and every time I drove the car.
I was also told by Livernois that you cannot have tm off in two modes and on in one. It has to be the same across all three driving modes. ?????

Even at 50% shift torque the trans only shifts hard at WOT. Since we don't drive like that all the time, it's not going to hurt the drivetrain. At light throttle it shifts easy just like stock and at medium throttle it shifts firm but it doesn't throw me back.

I've seen threads where people talk about the G8 pulling timing, and now a couple of mentions of slower clutch pack engagement. I'm curious if either of these concepts even apply to this car. Since we don't have a mechanical throttle, couldn't both of these practices be obsolete? It could just as easily hold back the throttle. We already know it's trying to rpm match on down-shifts, right?

just buy a replacement one...the problem is getting the flashs the car has had at the dealer on there. once the car has had an update, how do you convince them to do it again to log it into the spare ecm/tcm. maybe with hp tuners and some creativity you may be able to pull something off?
It's easy just do a backup each time you pick it up from the dealer.

Concerning clutch pack engagment, according to GM specs shift quality is controlled by 5 "variable bleed" soleniods, sounds like controlling engagment is still used & internal to the transmission. Not sure about throttle "roll back" but that too sounds possible. Also the driveline shock certainly is the main issue on WOT shifts, but there still is the "death by a thousand cuts" theory, everything in moderation, highly modified cars with 100% TM reduction probably will have driveline problems, minor mods and "reasonably" sane driving most likely no problem IMO:oldfogey:, but what do I know???

There is some throttle letup with the stock tune but it also engages the clutch packs slowly. With the Superchips tune there is throttle letup at light throttle, but the clutch packs engage firmly. On the average I go WOT a few times a week, which isn't enough to destroy the drivetrain at that rate.