I currently have a hydrogen set-up on my 06 goat, producing about 20-25% better gas mileage than normal. I plan to repeat this process on the G8GT, but I have a question about tuning it...

Is it possible to tune the O2 and MAF sensors in order not to throw a code?

Translation: I had to build a circuit assembly to override the sensors, or the engine would just readjust istself, making the hydrogen input useless. Would there be a way to avoid building the circuit again, and just tuning the engine?

I would love more info on this set up. Where do you have the tank of H2 gas, under the hood or in the trunk?

I think he just fills with tapwater and a "bubbler" makes the gas from it by electrolysis. There are kits; and there are plans for the less timid. Some outfits sell a secret ingedient to use. It takes the original water injector concept a step farther.

http://water4gas.com/2books.htm?hop=mstaines

But Wait, There's MoreYou may even be able to claim all the books, parts, and installation costs as "green" on your taxes.


Some outfits set garages up to install such kits, sell the "secret" ingredient and perform a computer tune.

Wow, that's a big screaming ad.

All that information is free online, or I can help y'all out. It's a painless system to build/install, increases HP, and increases gas mileage. Best of all, completely reversible for those trips to the dealer!

http://rofl.wheresthebeef.co.uk/Blimpin%20Aint%20Easy.jpg

For some reason, I can't see myself throwing a Mason jar full of water with a plastic cap into the engine bay of a $30k car, wrapping it all together with some makeshift tubing ("ADD GLUE!").

http://water4gas.com/images/vacuum.jpg

If this was legit, I would think we would've heard more about it.. and the information would've been provided in a means other than an overly-long, get-rich-quick website format.

Ideas have been around for years. I had a plain water injector on a 1979 Bonnie that improved drivability in the lean-burn era as well as fighting knock and allowing advanced timing for more effiecient burn - and thus hp and mpg. P51 Mustangs in WWII had sucj systems to counteract the ultra-low octane fuel available to them. Not so evident with f.i., but drive a carbureted car during a rainstrorm and you can feel the difference that moist more dense air makes in the air/fuel combustion process.

But it's one of those things, just like duct-taping cow magnets on the fuel line, if it is such a good idea, why doesn't Detroit install it at the factory?

Ideas have been around for years. I had a plain water injector on a 1979 Bonnie that improved drivability in the lean-burn era as well as fighting knock and allowing advanced timing for more effiecient burn - and thus hp and mpg. P51 Mustangs in WWII had sucj systems to counteract the ultra-low octane fuel available to them. Not so evident with f.i., but drive a carbureted car during a rainstrorm and you can feel the difference that moist more dense air makes in the air/fuel combustion process.

But it's one of those things, just like duct-taping cow magnets on the fuel line, if it is such a good idea, why doesn't Detroit install it at the factory?

That question has an obvious Answer.... ask J.W. Bush!!!

Is this guy a site sponsor?

Interesting, I have to suscribe to this one. I might try it on my 91 stang.

Doesn't anybody watch Mythbusters?

Ideas have been around for years. I had a plain water injector on a 1979 Bonnie that improved drivability in the lean-burn era as well as fighting knock and allowing advanced timing for more effiecient burn - and thus hp and mpg. P51 Mustangs in WWII had sucj systems to counteract the ultra-low octane fuel available to them. Not so evident with f.i., but drive a carbureted car during a rainstrorm and you can feel the difference that moist more dense air makes in the air/fuel combustion process.

But it's one of those things, just like duct-taping cow magnets on the fuel line, if it is such a good idea, why doesn't Detroit install it at the factory?

Isnt this similar to methanol injection they use in supercharger/turbo applications?

Yea i do do watch myth busters...

Hyrdrogen kit from ebay DOES NOT WORK!!!!:eek2:

Isnt this similar to methanol injection they use in supercharger/turbo applications?


Yes, except that methanol works as advertised.

could you post some pics of MPG gains!! maybe some proof... very skeptical about this but it seems legit from some of these websites.

Of course it seems legit from the websites that are trying to sell you the kits. IT DOESN"T WORK! save your money for an electric turbocharger :)

Of course it seems legit from the websites that are trying to sell you the kits. IT DOESN"T WORK! save your money for an electric turbocharger :)

well seeing as there have been news stories about it I figured it was worth lokoing into.

I found a guy locally who has done it and he claims he gets 700miles to his tank on his 05 corvette!! Normally he gets like 350!!

Do you really know it doesnt work or are you just saying that cos the websites look scammy???!!

The local guy is full of it. Yes, I really know it doesn't work. If it was really as simple as they make it sound all cars would come from the factory with a jar full of water hooked to the battery under the hood.

The local guy is full of it. Yes, I really know it doesn't work. If it was really as simple as they make it sound all cars would come from the factory with a jar full of water hooked to the battery under the hood.

Thats rediculous!! First off Hydrogen cars are starting to appear on the market! But not with a bottle of water under the hood, but an advanced system saving more gas! they charge a lot more for the car though!
Secondly it has not been in the interest of car makers to produce cheap and easy ways to cut fuel consumption until the last few years! The political involvement that car makers, oil companies and our gov have together has resulted in greater demand on oil for many years!! You must know this.??!! The technology to save oil has been around for ages! Its political agenda that has slowed its common-place!

All these types of gas savers are coming out like crazy now, as they should! When we really need to do something about our home, its finally available. We could have done a lot more a long time ago and not be dealing with the planetary issues we are now.

my .02...

However if you know for a fact that, from your own results, some of these applications dont work then please, share proof so we can either investigate the right way to do it or move on!!

Thanks

Caerwyn

That question has an obvious Answer.... ask J.W. Bush!!!

If you are implying that Bush wants the demand for oil to stay high, you got to get a different set of conspiracy theories. Bush signed the Dem Congress's new CAFE law requiring 35 MPG by 2020. When that starts kicking in at the next G8 redo in say 7 years, the GM V8 engine will be DEAD. No more mass produced V8s for the masses. Probably the hot setup for the next gen G8 will be a DI turbo FOUR.

Which is why I'm getting my G8 now...and keeping her for the long haul. By 2020, nothing new will match it for HP except maybe the Corvette.

Thank Bush and the Democrats. Whatever happened to freedom of choice for consumers.

If you don't want to try it, don't try it. I can guarantee it works, on both new, and older cars. The only difference between the two, you need a circuit card assembly and some resistors to keep the new engine from increasing the fuel after the mod.

Why wouldn't they put it on ever car out of Detroit?....Do you really think that Detroit and the oil companies aren't in bed with other? Ever think about why the manufacturers normally recommend that you change your oil ever 3,000 miles, even though today's oil won't break down until at least 5,000 miles or more, depending on driving practices. Fact is, everyone keeps the economy going (or recessing) by helping each other.

If anyone is interested pm me, if not, don't knock it.

BTW Mythbusters didn't have the setup for their experiment. Of course the ebay kit wouldn't work....how many 'homemade' anything(s) actually perform as advertised on ebay?

They recommend 3,000 miles because its a safe recommendation for all driving conditions. If you'll read the manual, it also says that your normal driving conditions and the way you drive can have a dramatic impact on the length of time you can go between changes. Rather than publish a ridiculously long matrix for all possible driving conditions that affect oil life, they put 3,000 miles in the book. My GP is equipped with GM's oil life monitoring system and I've yet to see it indicate the need for a change before 5,000 miles at a minimum.

The price of oil is being driven by demand in developing nations, China, India, etc, by the weakness in the dollar, and by speculation. Find some new conspiracy theories, please.

I won't start on the opinions on the issue of oil and pricing....We could have this thread open for the next 25 years and still never agree. BUT, I guarantee Detroit knows how to increase MPG, and for some reason, they won't put that technology into action. They experimented with ethanol in the 40s-50s, it was called gasohol. Here we are 50 years later, and they're finally 'trying it out?' Something there seems fishy, don't you agree?

Regardless, there are literally a hundred things you can do to increase your MPG. I even work with a guy who powers his lawnmowers, weedeaters, leaf blowers, etc...with a hydrogen set-up, and no gas whatsoever.

Conspiracy theories are funny, no matter how much eveidence points to them being baseless people continue to believe the same old BS. What happened to the 100mpg carburator?

The hydrogen powered cars you are talking about have nothing in common with the junk science these sites are selling. Hydrogen powered fuel cell vehicles and IC engines that run using hydorgen as the sole fuel source are completely different animals. Fuel cells are getting closer but as of now they are either too large or too expensive. The storage (very high pressures) and distribution requirements for purely H powered vehicles would require a complete infrastructure redesign.

Ethanol has been around for quite a while, the big reasons it was never pushed more? Compatibility, and oil supply. It is very corrosive to the fuel system components and unless the system is designed with ethanol fuels (containing greater than ~10% ethanol) in mind it will render them useless in short order. The oil that gasoline is based on has been cheap, why pursue a more expensive alternative if all it would do is cost more money? Less than ten years ago I was buying regular unleaded for less than $1/gallon, there is not much incentive there to explore alternatives. Ethanol is an alternative to straight gasoline but it is not better (arguably) or cheaper.

Do your own research. It is your money spend it as you wish.

However if you know for a fact that, from your own results, some of these applications dont work then please, share proof so we can either investigate the right way to do it or move on!!

I don't have any of my own results, I am not gulible enough to buy this crap. The right way to run your car on hydrogen is to design a high pressure storage and delivery system, a refueling system, and recalibrate the ECM to burn H instead of gasoline. Or you could go the fuel cell route and develop a system that is small enough to be packaged into today's vehicles while not using up all available storage space and works reliably in many varied climates. Doing that should keep you busy for a while and may cause you to declare bankruptcy but it would be the "right way to do it" so might I suggest just enjoying your G8 and moving on.

Has anybody seen my "For Sale" listing in the classifieds? I have a sweet deal on some florida swampland if anybody is interested. :)

Sounds too good to be true? What really makes me laugh is when you start to get more energy out than is allowed by law. At work one of the engineers has an ad for a system out of the National Enquirer that boasts 100 mpg. He added a few thermodynamic laws and chemical reaction equations to show how impossible it is.

While hydrogen and oxygen may improve efficiency of the combustion cycle, it takes energy too. It takes more energy to separate the hydrogen and oxygen than is returned from their burning.

If it actually worked, and worked reliably, inexpensively, cleanly, and safely, all the car manufacturers would jump on this.

Now using water in a six stroke engine, that makes thermodynamic sense as improving efficiency, but still leaves the other questions unanswered.

While hydrogen and oxygen may improve efficiency of the combustion cycle, it takes energy too. It takes more energy to separate the hydrogen and oxygen than is returned from their burning.


The only energy it takes to seperate the hydrogen from the oxygen is amperage off the battery. It's just a chemical reaction between metal and a catalyst that off gasses the hydrogen.

Where does the energy stored in the battery come from? Last I heard energy cannot be created or destroyed.

The amount of H produced that way is very small and not enough to do much of anything other than make a few bubbles. As Mr. didgers points out, the laws of physics are pretty strict.

Do your own research.

who saw the movie "Who killed the electric car"???

BUsh has done a good thing by putting the MPG act in place but only because the world finally caught on to what was going on and the effect it has on our planet. Bush has always been in bed with oil., thats not Conspiracy theory. His hand was forced.

This is becoming a great thread!! Its interesting to see everyone's POV on this stuff. Seems ironic considering we're all loving our new muscle cars with big V8's!!

G8>550i. I l ike that thought, I think you're right, we may well have one of the last real good muscle sedans. might as well hang on to it.

Cheers fellas.

Bush has done a good thing by putting the MPG act in place but only because the world finally caught on to what was going on and the effect it has on our planet. Bush has always been in bed with oil., thats not Conspiracy theory. His hand was forced.

It will be a good thing if the technology exists that will allow the manufacturers to build cars that meet the requirement AND still provide a rewarding driving experience. I for one do not want to go through a time like the 1970's where performance was choked (182 HP Corvette anyone?) in order to comply with SMOG legislation.

A cleaner environment is good for everybody. If you are really interested in what is going on look into NASA's AQUA satellite program (http://aqua.nasa.gov/index.php) and check out the data it has been sending back so far. Basically, most of the mathmatical models that have been used as the basis for the catastrophic global warming theories have been shown to be inaccurate or just flat out wrong when compared to actual measured data. The predicted climate changes are not shown to be happening. It is still pretty early but interesting none the less, especially because lawmakers in CA are proposing a "global warming tax." (http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/23/2315.asp)Awesome, they want to tax people for something they don't understand, can't confirm exists and if it does what its causes are :rolleyes: Not to mention the tax is levied against the smaller contributors to a percieved problem. Transportation accounts for something in the ball park of 20% of all CO2 emmisions. The other 80% is mostly industry, guess who wouldn't support (cough, cough, pay, cough, cough)the politcos if they were taxed?

All these types of gas savers are coming out like crazy now, as they should! When we really need to do something about our home, its finally available. We could have done a lot more a long time ago and not be dealing with the planetary issues we are now.


Thanks

Caerwyn

What planetary issues are you referring too?

Personally, Al Gore should be hanging from one of his beloved tree's!! I get so sick and tired hearing about this Global Warming BS. Sad that we live in a world where everyone falls for this crap and gives him the Nobel peace prize. Unreal to say the least.

Hydrogen injection for gasoline (and diesel) engines does exist and work, but this system certainly isn't it. If you do some serious research into it, and avoid the advertisers pages, you'll find that hydrogen injection CAN help save fuel, but it does this by helping to ignite ultra-lean burn (A/F ratios as high as 65:1) mixtures. To make a lean burn system work properly you need a direct injection engine, (which the GM LS engines are not) much, much more sensitive 02 sensors and a completly different catalytic convertor system, as normal cats operate well only at or near the stoichiometric point, and lean burn produces very high levels of NOx.

There's a lot more detail to it than that but I think I've made my point.

Also, HHO? Let's see, that's two hydrogen molecules and one oxygen molecule. What else has two hydrogen and one oxygen molecule? Oh! That's right, H20, also known as water.

There is such a thing as oxyhydrogen gas, but that's 2 H2 + O2, created by electrolysis, from 2 H2O. Guess what you get from burning 2 H2 + O2? 2 H2O! And we all know that in back and forth conversion like this you're losing energy as heat (and ion movement during the electrolysis itself,) not creating more, as that would violate some pretty important laws of physics. What kind of efficiency are you looking at here? About 30-45%. So much for free energy.

Isn't chemistry fun? :)

Isn't chemistry fun? :)

Which is why I ended up with a degree in ME instead of CE :)

Well said. Look into some of the more serous kits designed to lean the AFR up. If you can lean up the gasoline mixture you can recover combustion effeciency and more importantly flame travel speed with a hint of hydrogen.

I found a Flux Capacitor on EBAY... works as well as this system.

I found a Flux Capacitor on EBAY... works as well as this system.

Great! Now I just need to get a source for 1.21 gigawatts and I can go get me a hoverboard! :)

Great! Now I just need to get a source for 1.21 gigawatts and I can go get me a hoverboard! :)

I thought it was Jigawatts, that's way more than gigawatts :)

As I understand it, the injection system used in aircraft squirted a 50-50 mixture of water and methanol. The water cools the fuel charge allowing for high cylinder pressures without detonation. The methanol keeps the water from freezing at altitude. The system was used for emergencies only, such as getting away from an enemy on your six. This was called, I believe, "war emergency power". Not sure how it could provide additional mileage.

As I understand it, the injection system used in aircraft squirted a 50-50 mixture of water and methanol. The water cools the fuel charge allowing for high cylinder pressures without detonation. The methanol keeps the water from freezing at altitude. The system was used for emergencies only, such as getting away from an enemy on your six. This was called, I believe, "war emergency power". Not sure how it could provide additional mileage.

Easy. If your plane explodes with half a tank of fuel onboard then you only achieved half of the mileage you would have achieved if you’d managed to fly home.:wink2:

On a serious note, some of these kits probably do manage to increase mileage by leaning out you mixture (the hydrogen is a red herring). The trade off is that your emissions are worse and you have less power. And you might even burn an exhaust valve or two.

Didn't the Myth buster test this out?? It was big flop.....

Didn't the Myth buster test this out?? It was big flop.....

Not sure about that, didn't see that episode. I'm just going on what I learned in aircraft mechanic's school a coupler decades ago. P-51s and a few others (ME 109 maybe?) definitely did use this to increase power. As for economy i remain skeptical.

Personally, Al Gore should be hanging from one of his beloved tree's!! I get so sick and tired hearing about this Global Warming BS. Sad that we live in a world where everyone falls for this crap and gives him the Nobel peace prize. Unreal to say the least.

:iagree: :banghead: :oldfogey: :iagree:

Hydrogen injection CAN work. The energy required to produce the hydrogen (in small quantities) is countered by the gains in efficiency in the burn of the gasoline. Its not just about the energy released from the hydrogen. HOWEVER. Introducing hydrogen allows for a leaner burn, which increases NOx emissions, which is why cars nowadays get crappy gas mileage. Back in the late 80's early 90's, when NOx wasn't an issue, lean burning cars got way better economy then they do now. Its not because this tech is being buried, its because the EPA mandated that the emissions weren't acceptable. Its never been proven either way, if it was better to allow higher NOx for the lower CO/CO2 emissions and improved economy (less oil usage).

LOL, this thread is so funny I can hardly breathe from laughter. The oil company conspiracies, 50% better mileage claims, the fuel cell and water injection confusion, the HHO chemistry lessons, and finally that Mason jar almost killed me.

Keep up the good work!

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