G8 Evaluation and Pedderisation

Over the last week we have started Pedderising G8s in the USA. My personal G8 will be a GT with the Sport Package and Sunroof – Pedders style. If you have seen the Pedders GTO, you’ll know what that means. Before any one even thinks about it, and that includes my wife, the G8 is an addition to our garage. You’ll see both of us at a number of events this year. Both of us meaning the G8 and GTO. We will start with the driving impressions of a bone stock G8 with the Sport Package.

G8 Evaluation

The Pontiac G8 arrives from Australia in GT / Sport Package trim with the front ride height at 660mm and the rear ride height at 559mm. It sits rather tall as though it were an AWD sedan. These heights are deceptive in that the rear wheel arch is lower and smaller than the front. The result is that while the ride heights are virtually identical the rear of the vehicle sits considerably higher than the front. It sits high in the bum. The OE dampers fitted to the G8 are NG – No Gas. These are basic oil and air units installed to keep the price point down – perhaps due to the increase strength of the Aussie dollar.

My initial drives of the G8 left me both impressed and disappointed. The VE chassis delivers almost everything we expected and yet disappointed at the same time. It is a tiger that feels tamed - it feels light and floats in sweepers and at high speeds. This is the Pontiac flagship and I wanted this tiger to claw through a turn. The car sits too tall, is sprung too soft, damped too light with a too much body lean and roll in. Even the ride is too light in my opinion

The all new rear suspension architecture is excellent. The integrity of the chassis design adds depth to the driving experience. The rear suspension has sufficient structure to support the most aggressive driving. The three point differential mount is a significant improvement over the GTO. The sub-frame attaches with a four point mount. The upper and lower control arms are another significant advance over the VZ chassis. Adding trailing arms puts the G8 on another level.

The front suspension is more evolutionary than the all new rear design. The familiar GTO strut assembly mounts to the vehicle with the exact same strut mount as the GTO. The lower control arm runs from the knuckle to the front sub-frame. The radius rod Z bar GTO design has been replaced by a more modern arm. The radius rod mounts to the front with a steel-jacketed hydraulic bush. It ties to the knuckle with a joint.

The G8 uses a virtual pivot point suspension in the front. The benefit is that the wheel pivot is moved out from the inside of the clevis / knuckle to a virtual point of intersection that is closer to the outside of the tire. Where the GTO plowed through turns the G8 storms through turns. The scrubbing that was typical on my GTO with a highly tuned complete Pedders suspension is gone from the OE G8 suspension. This is a direct result of balance -- the weight distribution is spot on – almost 50/50 though most magazines have weighed the G8 in at 51/49 – chassis integrity and a more advanced design.

The G8 is an excellent car in OE trim. It has the potential to be dramatically better. While the GTO arrived in the USA with a more traditionally tuned performance suspension as would be expected in a performance coupe. The higher than the sedan version of the VZ chassis coil and damping rates were judged to be too soft for a performance coupe by many owners in the USA. The G8 arrives as a performance sedan. The difference in obvious is ride heights, spring and damping rates. On your first G8 test drive you will notice that there is an enormous amount of body lean and roll. This is directly related to ride height, spring and damping rates. With smooth driver inputs and modest amounts of throttle the G8 will blast through twists and turns. As a driver you must ignore the lean and roll. The car will go where you point it.

If you accelerate hard out of a turn you will identify the primary weakness in the G8 platform. The rear –sub-frame connectors allow far too much twisting and turning of the sub-frame in relation to the monocoque. This is very different from the GTO. The new G8 sub-frame mounts to the monocoque with four sub-frame bushes. The G8 rear suspension design is similar to the excellent Mercedes derived Chrysler LX platform (Charger, Magnum, 300C and Challenger). The sub-frame bush squirm does not explode in violent wheel hop as you would encounter in the GTO. In the G8 the sub-frame motion results in rear end step out and rear end bumpsteer. This is evident when you run an aggressive slalom using heavy braking and acceleration.

Judging the G8 by the spring rate, damping rate or body lean in relationship to older less advanced vehicles would be a mistake. The bone stock G8 is a more advanced design that performs better than the previous generation GM / Holden / Pontiac VZ chassis.
Suspension is always subjective. What is too hard for some will be too soft for others. The G8 in GT trim with a Sport Package feels too light and floaty to me. The car leans an enormous amount, but does hold the line through tight turns. High speed cruising feels just a bit light. It is not in any way unstable, but it is too light for my taste. It doesn’t inspire the same confidence you would experience in a Benz or BMW. Just as the GTO was a significant step up in the GM performance coupe tradition from the F-Body the G8 is a huge advance from the GTO. There are differences of substance. The G8 should be a smooth ride luxury performance sedan. If you are expecting ZO6 Corvette flat corning, you bought the wrong car. If you were expecting a BMW the G8 is close but not close enough.

G8 Low Hanging Fruit


Sub-Frame Bushing Inserts, Pedders EP1169
Front and Rear Lowering Coils: Pedders 2954 & 2955
Pedders GSR Front Struts: 9464L & 9464R
Pedders GSR Rear Struts: 9295
Front Castor Correction: 5121Adding Pedders sub-frame inserts to the G8 completely changes the character of the vehicle. GM did it right with the mounting point. The G8 sub-frame mounts with two long ‘pilots’ from the monocoque passing through the larger rear pair of sub-frame bushes. The installation of these eight inserts seemed to reduce the trace amounts of noise from sub-frame to monocoque contact under extremely aggressive maneuvers. The car becomes significantly more predictable which is a surprise as the platform was already very good. Pedders engineers did a brilliant job of using the existing sub-frame bushes. This simplifies installation and reduces your completed costs for parts and labor. This is hands down the biggest bang for the buck mod for the G8.

With a more predictable rear suspension from the installation of Pedders EP1169, your next limiting factor is the ride height and damping rate. The G8 is a luxury performance sedan. You don’t want top turn this world class vehicle into a boy-racer kidney-belt required hot rod. To that end the changes in ride height for the G8 are roughly 20mm in the front with fresh Pedders 5851 strut mounts and 40mm in the rear. These changes allow the car to sit with a slight front to rear rake 622mm rear and 640mm front.

The G8 does use the same strut mount, the exact same strut mount as the GTO. We are finding 4 to 6mm of compression in fresh off the boat G8s. A modest increase in spring rate paired with Pedders nitrogen charged GSR dampers bring the G8 to life. Pedderised it drives like true performance sedan while retaining a luxury sedan like ride. It is easy to drive this car hard. The light sensation at high speed is gone. The rear step out, the rear bumpsteer, is banished. Suspension travel with your lowered ride height is long enough to be supple over most any road while delivering an amazing driving experience. Does it have more body lean and role than a maxed out GTO – it does. Does it ride better than a GTO – yes it does. Does it drive better than a GTO – yes it does.

Because the Pedderised G8 is so quiet and composed, high speeds seem to occur in slow motion. The G8 is a serious vehicle for the sophisticated driver that truly appreciates sophisticated automobiles. Because it is so balanced the Pedderised G8 is almost effortless to drive. Stability and Predictability are the primary characteristics that will leave you with SEGS. Take your time and learn the limits of your newly Pedderised G8 on a road course or an autocross. A Pedderised G8 is as weapon of higher priced vehicle destruction with minor suspension upgrades.

Concerns

There are some concerns I have after getting into the G8 Pedderisation. While the wear of the OE strut mount bush in the GTO is well documented, there is some cause for concern with the use of the same mount in the G8. In the GTO, the upper spring perch / bearing plate had a rather modest angle. In the new G8 the upper spring perch / strut bearing plate is on a more aggressive angle. This increases the clearance between the strut tub and the tire sidewall. There is no cause for concern that we will see strut rub in the G8. What we will see, in my opinion, is wear in the strut mount as a result of the increased load on the strut mount from the angle of the spring perch / bearing plate.

Before we wring our hands about this, the removal and installation of new strut mounts is roughly a 90 minute job. Replacing the mount with an OE or Pedders bit will be roughly $80 in parts. That is a small price to pay in annual maintenance cost to drive such an exciting luxury performance sedan. If you visit the BMW forums you will find that BMW has numerous issues with various suspension bushes. Even the ultimate driving machine has bush failures. Once again it is my opinion that the driving style of the performance luxury sedans contributes to the issues. Performance vehicles require performance based maintenance programs. An annual alignment, strut mount replacement including parts and labor is less expensive than picking up a cup of coffee at Starbucks on your way to work.

On two of the G8s I have seen on racks, the driver’s side parking brake cable was stretched across a hard metal sub-frame edge. GM / Holden / Pontiac seem to be aware of the chafe potential. The cable is protected by a yellow plastic anti-chafe device. These two cars had already shown signs of wear in the yellow plastic. We wrapped them with a piece of heat hose zip tied in place. It is a short list of concerns.

Pedderisation: Pontiacs, Businesses and People

Pedders USA, LLC will be campaigning a Pedderised G8. I pick up and Pedderise my new G8 at Brian Harris Pontiac Buick GMC on April 8, 2008 – THANK YOU William Southall!. With the help of their lead Pedders technician we will install a full Pedders eXtreme Suspension before my family and I drive our new G8 from Slidell, Louisiana to West Olive, Michigan. We’ll post photos of the car before, during, after and include our road trip. That is the first leg of our trip in the G8 build.

Step #2 With the assistance of Disc Brakes of Australia (DBA) we will be installing a DBA Big Brake Package.

Step #3 is courtesy of ProCharger, our original marketing partner. ProCharger will prototype and install their G8 forced induction system. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?

Step #4 Corsa will handle the exhaust. I love the G8 quiet cabin, but this tiger does need a bit more growl….

Step # 5 Early on, we’ll be adding coolers for oil, trans and power steering. We have yet to determine what we should do with the interior, tires and wheels.

Step #6 More Road Trips and Events! The Pedders USA, LLC G8 will be on the Hot Rod Power Tour, the GTOAAs, the LX Nationals in Ohio, the Camaro Superfest and a couple of other events before the year is over.

As I close this initial installment of Pedderise My G8, I want to mention how excited I am to be involved with Pontiac community, the GTO community, G8 Community and the automotive community. Our car culture is an amazing blend of diverse groups of people with a common interest. The G8 project will take me to places I had never dreamed of and people that I would never have met as did my original journey with my GTO. As many of you know, I lost my mother last month. The support provided from people I would never have known had I not become involved with the GTO and Pedders was incredible. In 2008 armed with a G8 and a GTO I can only imagine what the year will bring. Life is an adventure best traveled in a Pedderised Pontiac!

http://peddersusa.com/G8/Red.G8.Before.gif

http://peddersusa.com/G8/Red.G8.After.gif


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http://peddersusa.com/G8/HD.G8.After.gif

Justice Pete's Evaluation as a PDF (http://www.peddersusa.com/G8/G8%20Evaluation%204.4.2008.pdf)

wow, long but good read. glad to see that you guys are so passionate about the vehicles you work with. ive said it once, and ill say it again, the more and more i hear, read and see about you guys the deeper the hole i dig to plant my pedderized tree when i get my g8.

chrish

wow, long but good read. glad to see that you guys are so passionate about the vehicles you work with. ive said it once, and ill say it again, the more and more i hear, read and see about you guys the deeper the hole i dig to plant my pedderized tree when i get my g8.

chrish
While you are dealing with Chicago Weather next week, I'll be in New Orleans Pedderising my G8 at Brian Harris Pontiac Buick GMC. My family will be with me and then we will start heading north. I am still not sure if we are dropping the G8 off at ProCharger on this trip or next week... life is so hard :p

I don't understand the reverse-rake that seems to be so popular lately. Very popular in the GTO community too, but it just looks backwards to me. :dunno:


Thanks for the explanation of the differences between the G8 and GTO, very good information.

I don't understand the reverse-rake that seems to be so popular lately. Very popular in the GTO community too, but it just looks backwards to me. :dunno:


Thanks for the explanation of the differences between the G8 and GTO, very good information.
What reverse rake?

http://peddersusa.com/G8/Red.G8.After.gif

There is no reverse rake. There is an 8mm rake moving down from the rear to the front of the vehicle. Look at the roof-line, the hood and door sill... the wheel arch sizes front to rear create that illusion. The reality is exactly the opposite.

The GTO OE coils do sag in the rear creating a reverse rake. That is due to the rear mini-bloc beehive coil design that was used to create more interior and trunk space. It is compact, but requires such an aggressive progressive coil rate that the coil sags from the eye up and down -- on both ends of the conical shape. The G8 does not use that style of rear coil. The G8 in OE or Pedders trim does has an aggressive stance with rake from the rear to the front. Reducing the rake from OE to Pedders improves the handling dynamics of the vehicle.

Fantastic read. Thank you. In an earlier post I said I felt my G8GT felt "tippy" at interstate speeds and above triple digit speeds crossing the crown was not a sure-footed feeling. Now I know why. Before the G8 I had a 2004 GTP Comp G with GXP Bilstein struts and Eibach springs (lower ~1.5") and 18" tires. It felt more a rails than the G8 and though the G8 seemed to track well it was not as confidence inspiring.

Is the EP1169 installation something a shade tree mechanic could do himself or is it more involved? I assume installing the struts (9464L/2464R/9295), springs (2954/2955) and mounts (5851) is straight forward as I've done that on a number of other cars myself. What about the Caster kit (5121)? Are two of these required? I couldn't find that number on your site, BTW. I found 5421 but not 5121. Is that a do it yourself job?
Thank you and I can't wait for the next installation of your progress.

Fantastic read. Thank you. In an earlier post I said I felt my G8GT felt "tippy" at interstate speeds and above triple digit speeds crossing the crown was not a sure-footed feeling. Now I know why. Before the G8 I had a 2004 GTP Comp G with GXP Bilstein struts and Eibach springs (lower ~1.5") and 18" tires. It felt more a rails than the G8 and though the G8 seemed to track well it was not as confidence inspiring.

Is the EP1169 installation something a shade tree mechanic could do himself or is it more involved? I assume installing the struts (9464L/2464R/9295), springs (2954/2955) and mounts (5851) is straight forward as I've done that on a number of other cars myself. How many mount kits are needed? What about the Caster kit (5121)? Two of these would be required, or does 1 kit do both fronts? I couldn't find that number on your site, BTW. I found 5421 but not 5121. Is that a do it yourself job?
Thank you and I can't wait for the next installation of your progress.
Typo -- 5421 is correct.

The installation of struts is straight forward. Just as in the GTO, we suggest you include 5851 strut mounts and bearings on your new GSR struts. Pedders does provide the new single use clevis bolts with your G8 struts. The EP1169 can be done on your drive way. You will need to lower the rear sub-frame and lift it back into place. That said, your local Pedders Dealer can do that job for your in 90 minutes.

If you do your own struts you will absolutely need a compressor for the fronts. You can do the rears without a compressor, but must use a rattle gun to pop the OE assembly. Done Aussie style the rear damper will jump about three feet across the shop floor. If you are using hand tools the potential for injury is much greater. Rent a strut compressor or have your local Pedders Dealer do it for you.

You'll find that your Pedderised G8 is far more supple than your mofified GTP as it should be with the advances GM has made in the suspension architecture of the G8 and Pedders dampers and coils. Thank you for choosing Pedders for your G8. We appreciate your business!

Hey! That's my car! Notice no side GM badges? Had to get rid of them. Cool!

Hey! That's my car! Notice no side GM badges? Had to get rid of them. Cool!It drives great -- I know :gr_devil::secret::gr_devil:

The only problem i c here is that only one of these cars has a pedders sticker on it. And might I add I think thats the best looking one ;p.

Thanks
Mike Haddad

Hey! That's my car! Notice no side GM badges? Had to get rid of them. Cool!
You lucky dog!

The only problem i c here is that only one of these cars has a pedders sticker on it. And might I add I think thats the best looking one ;p.

Thanks
Mike Haddad
How is your Maggie project coming along?

JP,
If I start buying, over time, the various Pedders items you listed and then decide to drive to NJ or NC to have them installed by one of the Pedders Dealers instead of trying it myself, will they install even if I didn't buy the hardware from them directly?

Nice read, and good luck with the project. I can't wait to see the results of the Procharger. I will be going to Kansas City in the next month or so...so might have to stop by to check yours out if it's there at the same time.

I am DMS. those in the GTO community, lmnow my involvement with the GTO suspension. I was one of the guys who did the first install and evaluation in our Farifield Pedders store.

Here are my initall impressions:
1. Withut a doubt the Zeta platform is far superior to that of the GTO
2. Being a GTO guy thru and thru, there is a significantly higher amount of body role that the GTO, which to me is very disapointing. However, due to basic epsusnion designs, from virtual pivot points in the front, to a real significantly positive improvements in the back over GTO, with our Pedders system on it, the vehicle was tremendously predictable. We did a huge amount of testing on the first one. At 60mph, we were doing 90 degree turns left and right, rapidly, with not tire squirm. We were right on the boarder line of traction control activation, however. The ride quality was fantastic, and the handling was equally as good.
3. On the dark side, if you have knowledge of the GTO, you know there are serious issues with strut bushes. With the GTO, the strut bush is at 90 degrees to the strut shaft itself ,and wih sproty tdriving, will begin it relocation process towards the engine compartment, thus causing some potential negative camber changes, and toe changes. The G8 uses the same strut bush and bearing, and they strap the front coil springs for shipping just like the GTO. But now the bad stuff: The top strut plate is not 90 degrees to the strut. It is 10-20% off of 90%. This causes the strut bush to be "kinked". The first G8 we did was already collapsed 5-10mm plus showed a lot of stress on the engine side of the bush, between the inner and outer strut bush assemblies. This is a major concern of mine for those who drive this vehicl in a sporty way. Pete is trying to be really nice about it, but I think the life cycle of the front strut bush will be about 10,000 miles. The only reason it may last this long is due sot the superior design of the virtual pivot points. I will add pictures for all to see what I am talking about.

Without a doubt, the G8, being fully peddersized with be a greater handling vehicle than a AMG or a M series Beemer.
We all need to learn this vehicle. We really need to watch inner camber wear, especially after the strut bush begins to walk inward. Strut rub is not an issue with the G8 like it is wth the the GTO.

4. Low to moderate speeds with the G8 will find the GTO will out handle the G8. High speed applictions, hwever, the G8 will outhandle the GTO and will be more stable. The G8 has maybe double the suspesnion travel the GTO does. I think this is Holdens way of making this a performance family car.

Overall the G8 is a great riding car, but in stock OEm suspension, has way too much body role than I can tolerate. There is also a serious difference in the handlein between the 18 and 19 inch wheels. The 18 inch wheels are, in my opinion, non comlaint to cornering and perfomrance, The 19 inch wheels are barely OK with the excess suspension travel with the soft rubber and springs thoughout.

Something the gTO does not have, is a concern with the feeling of excess lateral movement of the rear cradle. It is a very odd feeling, and not good for someone like me who is fanatic on suspension with aq great ride quality. Our rear cradle mount bush insert kit, resolves that issue 100% for me.

So all in all, a great car, but very much under sprung and under shocked, with exremely soft bushes all arund for my personal taste. The labor to upgrade seems to be much easier than GTO, but hthere are more bushes to deaql with. GTO allows us to get some serious casters. G8 seems to max out on the 6.8 to 7 degrees, which is far less than GTO.
So stay tuned to our Pedders events for the G8 and enjoy the ride.

mike
dms

Check out the 3 strut bush pictures and you can see what we see. I think the G8 had about 1500 miles on it.


Notice the strut bush looks like it is bent. This is normal becasue the strut plate is not at 90 degrees to the strut shaft. As you see the angles, you should understand our long term concern on camber changes due to strut bush wear.

Any questions, just ask

mike
dms

Strut rub is not an issue with the G8 like it is wth the the GTO.

mike
dms

Mike do you think you can fit a 275 18 or 19 up front then with a custom offset wheel with a 9inch wide?

Mike do you think you can fit a 275 18 or 19 up front then with a custom offset wheel with a 9inch wide?

Yes

JP,
If I start buying, over time, the various Pedders items you listed and then decide to drive to NJ or NC to have them installed by one of the Pedders Dealers instead of trying it myself, will they install even if I didn't buy the hardware from them directly?The answer would be yes.

Yes

Excellllent...thanks...

Thanks. That makes all the decisions easier.

I've asked in a couple of threads but after reading your review I think the answer is pretty clear. I had wondered if your street springs could be used on the stock struts and shocks. It looks like they would physically fit but, seeing as the OEM set-up is under-sprung and under-damped, am I right in assuming that the stiffer springs with OEM dampers would make the under-damped situation worse and could actually result in a "pogo" effect?

Are your front strut mounts and bearings different than OEM? In reading the texts it looks like the mount may be the weak link and need replacing yearly. Was this for the OEM mount, yours or both?

A Pedders 5851 is a fresh sheet of paper design. he only constraints are that the Bush must fit the OEM mounting points. There is more rubber in the neck and body along with a larger OD ferule. The larger OD ferule allows more rubber to bnond to he outer surface. It is a vastly superior product when compared to OE. That said, the angle of the new G8 bearing plate / spring perch will place a heavy load on this bush. Our bit will outlast and OE mount, the question is we don't know how long. My guess is annual inspection and perhaps annual maintenance. The bits and labor will be under $300.

Thanks. Sounds like yours should outlast the OEM but only time will tell by how much. Even if the didn't last longer, it sounds like they are better in a number of ways.
Thanks,
Ed

In your write up you did not list some items that are part of the Street II kit. They are 5030 strut bearing, EP1167 Diff bushing kit and EP6560 Radius Rod bushing. Are these not needed or oversights? It seems the 5030 should be used along with the 5851, right.

Hey, Mike -

What's a reasonable estimate of labor required (by a qualified mechanic, not me) to install the Street II kit?

Thanks. Sounds like yours should outlast the OEM but only time will tell by how much. Even if the didn't last longer, it sounds like they are better in a number of ways.
Thanks,
Ed
They are better, but not indestructible. Our experience in the GTO is about twice as long, but that depends on driving style and especially on shipping. If you ship your GTO or G8 cranking down the straps with the strength of Hercules will shorten the strut mount life to the length of the transport run. Use exceptional care when trailering and shipping GTOs and G8s.

Hey, Mike -

What's a reasonable estimate of labor required (by a qualified mechanic, not me) to install the Street II kit? 12 hours plus the alignment if they have been trained by Pedders. Longer by another 6 hours if they are good but not G8 / Pedders trained. There must be fifty pages of tech notes in the GM computer for this work, maybe more. By the GM book, the hours would be about the same as it took God to create heaven and earth. :angel:

The more they do the faster and better they get. It is no different than field stripping a rifle. Really hard the first time and when you hav done it a few hundred -- blindfolded is still perfect in a fraction of the time.

In your write up you did not list some items that are part of the Street II kit. They are 5030 strut bearing, EP1167 Diff bushing kit and EP6560 Radius Rod bushing. Are these not needed or oversights? It seems the 5030 should be used along with the 5851, right.
The post was not a complete list of parts or process. If your OE bearings are intact and do not fall apart when the strut is stripped you can reuse it. We generally suggest DIYs buy 5030s with the 5851s becuase if yours is cracked or you lose some of the bearings you car is stuck on the lift until replacement bits arrive.

An essential bush kit would look like this.

Street I 5421GM Zeta Extreme Control Arm - Caster Lock Washer $ 77.95 EP1169GM Zeta Extreme Sub-Frame Connector Kit $ 238.99 EP1167GM Zeta Differential Bush Kit $ 108.36 EP6560Radius Rod Bush $ 161.59


I pick up my G8 at Brian Harris Pontiac Buick GMC in the morning. We'll be doing a complete installation. I'll post pictures and more information as we progress.

You can follow the installation of the eXtreme system here:

http://forums.peddersusa.com/showthread.php?p=2022&posted=1#post2022

Thanks Pete. It looks like the Street II kit is what I will get. Thanks.
Ed

Thank you for choosing Pedders for your G8!

Been e-mailing and talking with Frank. Friday I hope to nail down the schedule and get the ball rolling.:bubbrubb:

Sorry if this question is a bit newbie-ish, but I am brand spankin' new to the aftermarket mod scene. This is what I am getting from the above posts (and that's not a whole lot) and all the big words.

1. The factory G8 sits high from back to front.
2. Because of the types of suspension parts used, there is a lot of body roll & lean when turning at high speeds, and when accelerating out of a turn.
3. Replacing with Pedders parts will result in the car sitting high from front to back, essentially giving it a more solid ride at high speed and cut down on body roll.
4. Regardless of whether Pedders parts are installed or not, because of the angle of the strut plate, wear on this part will be more than usual and will result in necessary future repairs.

Do I have these right? Or am I completely misunderstanding the information?

My question would be then, why was it engineered with a softer suspension than a "regular" performance car? Was it a compromise for the luxury feel, or a necessary evil to meet a price point?

Thanks,

Sorry if this question is a bit newbie-ish, but I am brand spankin' new to the aftermarket mod scene. This is what I am getting from the above posts (and that's not a whole lot) and all the big words.

1. The factory G8 sits high from back to front.
2. Because of the types of suspension parts used, there is a lot of body roll & lean when turning at high speeds, and when accelerating out of a turn.
3. Replacing with Pedders parts will result in the car sitting high from front to back, essentially giving it a more solid ride at high speed and cut down on body roll.
4. Regardless of whether Pedders parts are installed or not, because of the angle of the strut plate, wear on this part will be more than usual and will result in necessary future repairs.

Do I have these right? Or am I completely misunderstanding the information?

My question would be then, why was it engineered with a softer suspension than a "regular" performance car? Was it a compromise for the luxury feel, or a necessary evil to meet a price point?

Thanks,

The ride on the G8 was designed for the family in mind that wants a little sporty feel. The basic design of the Zeta platform allows for a lot of suspension travel. Not really sure why but ist was a purposeful design. One of the things, however having the large suspension travel is tha when it sets, it does a very fine job of sticking to the pavement and the front and rear are very compliant and predictable. Add our Pedders, and the compliance becomes significant, less body role and far superior handling, with a very high degree of comfort. With the test G8 that we did, we still had body role, but the predictability of the suspension, and with the severe 90 degrees turning lleft, then right at speed, the tires kept their footprint, and did not role. I do not like body role, at all, but must admit,. the handling of the G8 after Pedders installed, was quite nice and still a car you can take on a long trip in comfort and style.

All of us at Pedders have lots of concerns on the strut bushing, based on the GTO experience and serious tire wear the GTO has. So when we saw how Holden did the strut bush design on the G8, we were , to say the least, extremely shocked, and even more concerned. So We give eveyone a heads up about it, and lets watch and see what happens. But I think the prudent thing that will happen to those that will drive this vehicle in a sporty manner, you should have the strut bushes replaced probably on a yearly basis. More on this as time goes on. Trust me, we will be satching this extremely closely. Especially on Pete's car tht will have some very serious driving done to it, just like what was done to his GTO.

This is the great power of this forum; to be informed....

mike
dms

71,
I don't think the pedders coils make the front higher than the rear. From the photos it looks like there is still a rake with the front being lower. The top of the front wheel well opening is higher than top of the rear opening, even OEM, but not the attitude of the car.

Someone correct me if i have it wrong. Pete? Mike?

71,
I don't think the pedders coils make the front higher than the rear. From the photos it looks like there is still a rake with the front being lower. The top of the front wheel well opening is higher than top of the rear opening, even OEM, but not the attitude of the car.

Someone correct me if i have it wrong. Pete? Mike?No correction is required. If people check a BMW they will see the same wheel arch style lines. Look at the side sill, the rood line and the hood. A Pedderised G8 with 2954 and 2955 coils is raked from the rear down to the front.

How big of a job is it to replace the front strut bush and are you talking about the one above the strut tower in the engine compartment?

Is an alignment required after the strut bush replacement?

Thanks.

With the test G8 that we did, we still had body role, but the predictability of the suspension, and with the severe 90 degrees turning lleft, then right at speed, the tires kept their footprint, and did not role. I do not like body role, at all, but must admit,. the handling of the G8 after Pedders installed, was quite nice and still a car you can take on a long trip in comfort and style.

The body roll (yaw) you speak of can be easily fixed with some larger diameter sway bars.

The body roll (yaw) you speak of can be easily fixed with some larger diameter sway bars.
Pete just finished his G8 wih out adjsutable coil overs, and bars and there is still more body role than in his full race GTO. However, it is engineered into the suspension by design, what GM has told me and Pete. But with it, it is still very predictable and the G8 will, without a doubt, outhandle a AMG and a M series with serious comfort.

Pete will be describing it in much more detail the next couple of days.

By the way, with our adjsutable coil over, we eliminate the eccentric plate that you will have to use with a standard strut design.

There are 2 chromed sets of adjustable coil overs in the world. pete has one set on his G8, and I have the other set if anyone is interested. They were chrome plated because they were the display struts at Sema last year and totally functional. So when pete talks about it, if anyone wants a VERY serious suspensin with killer ride control, you know who to call. They were also signed by Pete and Scott Pedders
mike
dms

When I talk with Frank tomorrow, I think we will do the Track II instead of my original plans for a Street II.
Ed

How big of a job is it to replace the front strut bush and are you talking about the one above the strut tower in the engine compartment?

Is an alignment required after the strut bush replacement?

Thanks.

Not too bad, about 90 minutes for both sides. The key is making sure that you align the top plate in proper orientation to the strut. There is a severe angle that the strut mount is placed in during this mount and it makes it a little difficult. You will definitely need a spring compressor.

Possible to do the strut, spring install yourself? I've done strut, mounts, springs on other cars. wondering if the g8 is different.

Anything is possible. Just a reminder that our warranty follows to every dealer if installed by an authorized dealer.

If you have spring compressors and the right tools it should not be all that difficult for you.
This link will take you to our website with all the pricing you should need.

Pedders G8 (http://www.peddersusa.com/Pontiac%20G8%20Zeta.htm)

While I was in Texas I had the opportunity to do a side-by-side with an AMG CL65 12 cylinder. The AMG is adaptive and lowers at high speed as well as increasing the damping rate. Around town it is boulevard smooth and comes to life over 100 MPH. The high speed control is outstanding. Pedders eXtreme system is not adaptive so you are always in AMG like lowered and taut mode. Clearly the Benz is a very special automobile and more refined than the G8. The G8 and the Benz do feel very much the same at high speed. The G8 suffers in the comparison around town which for about $100,000 less doesn't seem too bad.

In the safety of a controlled driving environment we were able to run these too cars hard. I am biased to Pedders. The owner of the CL65 was offended at the suggestion he would enjoy driving my Pedderised G8. He was very impressed with everything from the interior to the test drive. He felt that at speed the G8 was a 'secure and stable' as his AMG.

My personal opinion is that all things being equal I would buy the Mercedes AMG CL65 for $32,700 :D

Reality check -- the G8 is not a CL65 even when Pedderised. The G8 is incredibly well balanced -- nimble. It is a big car and feels like a small car. Our GTOs are big coupes and you feel the weight in every turn and twist. The G8 is bigger and tips the scales at a similar weight but is easier to drive. The eXtremes are just right for me. My GTO is an eXtreme vehcile and runs on 30 / 35 profile tires. I am used to and comfortable with a taut suspension. The G8 with eXtremes has a more refined ride than my GTO. The difference is in the tires and the superior suspension geometry of the G8. eXtremes are not for everyone. Using the Audi R series as the benchmark for a suspension that handles exceptionally well but is unpleasant to live with an eXtreme G8 is too soft. Using a standard BMW as a bench mark for perhaps the best balance of comfort and control the G8 comes up a bit short on the comfort side. An eXtreme G8 has a better ride quality than a BMW M3 and is about a dead heat with the BMW M5.

My new G8 was super. My Pedderised eXtreme G8 is even better. My Pedderised, ProCharged and DBA equipped G8 will be... I'll let you know when it gets done.

Sure Pete! Tease! Come-on Frank, I'm ready to go to NJ!:burnout:

Not really Pedders specific, but since you are so familiar with the suspension geometry i thought i'd ask... What do you think will be the max wheel/tire widths front and rear?

Does a 305/35/18 seem possible on a 10.0" rear? any bigger than this?

Not really Pedders specific, but since you are so familiar with the suspension geometry i thought i'd ask... What do you think will be the max wheel/tire widths front and rear?

Does a 305/35/18 seem possible on a 10.0" rear? any bigger than this?

This tire should be OK on a 10 to 12 inch wide wheel. It would be better to have it on a 10.5 to 11

You can verify this by going on the tire manufacturers web site. they ususally give suggested wheel widths to tire size applications.

We have not performed any tire fitment stuff yet, but soon will witht he Justice Pete G8, after it gets its Pro charger installed. There seems to be a more wheel well space that a GTO, but still limited in the front. Offsets will be critical when approaching max size wheels and tires


Hope this helps
mike
dms

295s on 9.5 or 10s may fit all around. In my dreams, with a great fender roll and some body stretching I would love to run something like 295/30 on 10x18 fronts with 315/30 11x18 in the rear. I would drop the car another 15mm in the front and 20mm in the rear. 500 RWHP a DBA brake package will have a vehicle ready to go head to head with the 550 HP CTS V, BMW M5 and close enough to shock a Mercedes Benz CL65 AMG.

My GTO forced my buddy into selling his last AMG when he realised I was faster. He upgraded to the CL 65 version. I spoke with him by phone the other day and let him know his 65 should be put up for sale.

:wink2:

When do you suppose you'll look at tire fitments etc? I am looking at getting some custom Work Meister SP1's made and am very interested in seeing what kind of tire/wheel setup can fit in the fenders...

It'd be nice to have some reviews on max sizes from someone who actually knows what they're doing.

When do you suppose you'll look at tire fitments etc? I am looking at getting some custom Work Meister SP1's made and am very interested in seeing what kind of tire/wheel setup can fit in the fenders...

It'd be nice to have some reviews on max sizes from someone who actually knows what they're doing.

:iagree:

Max backspacing and frontspacing is what we need, which is fixed and more accurate than offset, which varies with wheel width.

When do you suppose you'll look at tire fitments etc? I am looking at getting some custom Work Meister SP1's made and am very interested in seeing what kind of tire/wheel setup can fit in the fenders...

It'd be nice to have some reviews on max sizes from someone who actually knows what they're doing.That depends a lot on ProCharger. They have my G8. My GTO is in Arizona. Today I drove a rental Toyota minivan to a meeting :( :whine: :cry:

My goal is to have the car reasonably dialed in for the Hot Rod Power Tour, the GTOAAs, the LX Nationals and the Camaro Superfest. That includes tires and wheels. The real variable is body work. Rolling a fender is no big deal. Stretching a fender and repainting take more time and so does the inner fender liner. I would hope to have a more definitive answer about May 20th.

New information from GM indicates the design of the G8 bearing plate / upper spring perch will decrease the loads on the strut mount. When examined out of the car, it appears to be under load / compressed to one side before being installed in the vehicle. According to GM, when installed in the vehicle there should be less load on the strut mount bush due to the angle of the bearing plate. We will all know from real world experience as we accumulate miles on the Pedders G8 and see more G8s with miles iin Pedders Shops in the USA and AU. The update from Pedders Shops in AU -- they are seeing no unusual where on the G8 OE strut mount bush.

Hi Pete,
I was wondering if you knew anything about Track II parts deliveries for Frank. I need to give him a call but thought you know.
Ed

:D:D:D They should be there! :D:D:D

New information from GM indicates the design of the G8 bearing plate / upper spring perch will decrease the loads on the strut mount. When examined out of the car, it appears to be under load / compressed to one side before being installed in the vehicle. According to GM, when installed in the vehicle there should be less load on the strut mount bush due to the angle of the bearing plate. We will all know from real world experience as we accumulate miles on the Pedders G8 and see more G8s with miles iin Pedders Shops in the USA and AU. The update from Pedders Shops in AU -- they are seeing no unusual where on the G8 OE strut mount bush.

I think I will need to do a wait and see approach to this one. On our test fitted vehicle in Fairfield, the bush was already collpased about 7-8mm and there was significant stress already in the inside center between the outer and inner sections of the strut bush. So lets be guardly optimistic. But also, GM says they do not hae a probelm with the GTO strut bush as well. So I guess time will tell, and I hope for everyone's sake, the angle will casue longer life

mike
dms

We now have done quite a few G8's. Attached is a link so all of you can see the what the heights look like. the customer reviews are starting to hit. Soon, all the Pedders dealers will have vehicles avaialbe for review and test driving

http://www.peddersusa.com/Pontiac%20G8%20Zeta.htm

thanks
mike
dms

This is a wider view of one of the pictures that DMS posted. This was off off the G8 that we did at Fairfield, the strut mounts were off the car after a little over 600 miles.
The one in the middle is the Pedders 5851 HD strut mount. Those that have the GTO know this all to well.

http://forums.peddersusa.com/imagehosting/27481a7fa7016ce.jpg

Take a good look at this burn out video. There is very little rear end squat even with a bit of brake torque to get a good bite on the pavement. There is no wheel hop / axle tramp. This is the direct result of excellent suspension architecture from GM's VE / ZETA chassis and the Pedders eXtreme coilover suspension. The car is stable, predictable and consistent. It is everything a real driver as car guy would want. A ProCharger, Corsa prototype exhaust and a GREAT tune from Eric at Backstreet are invaluable when the intent is to melt your tires....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0V8X7R3Fpw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0V8X7R3Fpw)

[SIZE=2]Take a good look at this burn out video. There is very little rear end squat even with a bit of brake torque to get a good bite on the pavement. There is no wheel hop / axle tramp. This is the direct result of excellent suspension architecture from GM's VE / ZETA chassis and the Pedders eXtreme coilover suspension.

My completely bone stock G8 burns out without ANY wheel hop and "axle tramp". I don't understand how this shows anything.

However, nice burnout :)

My completely bone stock G8 burns out without ANY wheel hop and "axle tramp". I don't understand how this shows anything.

However, nice burnout :)The OE launch is mushy, soft and sluggish. The Pedderised IRS is crisp, sharp and hard. There is a reason that GM replaces the OE sub-frame bushes on their race cars with a rock hard material -- they do so to settle down the rear sub-frame. Pedders does the same with a series of street friendly compound urethane bushes and inserts. We keep 90% of the OE ride and deliver 90% of the race car crispness. Add 200 RWHP to your stock suspended G8 and report back your results on hard launches. Unless you are blowing as much smoke as your tires you will come to the same conclusions GM Racing and Pedders have about the compliance in the VE / ZETA IRS.

My completely bone stock G8 burns out without ANY wheel hop and "axle tramp". I don't understand how this shows anything.

However, nice burnout :)

I ThiNk what Pete is trying to show, is there is no "diving" or squating on the back end. Do the same on a G8 or GTO that is stockj, and you will see 3-4 inches of squat.

mike
dms

My completely bone stock G8 burns out without ANY wheel hop and "axle tramp". I don't understand how this shows anything.

However, nice burnout :)

I get wheel hop with mine. Not extreme, violent wheel hop, but it's there.

I hik what Pete is trying to show, is there is no "diving" or squating on the back end. Do the same on a G8 or GTO that is stockj, and you will see 3-4 inches of squat.

mike
dms

AH, okay.

I get wheel hop with mine. Not extreme, violent wheel hop, but it's there.
I have abused numerous bone stock G8s and found no trace of wheel hop. Under what conditions does your G8 wheel hop?

I just spent a week with a microscope of a G8's butt. Wheel hop is a function of many things; from body desigin to an accumilation of looseness.

The G8 has 2 areas of looseness in the back end.
1. Rear Xmember bushes have way too much non compliance (looseness), as well as the 3 bushings that secure the rear diff.

These 7 bushes are pretty loose and subject to lots of movement.

The Xmember bushes are easy to upgrade. The issue is not the hardness of the rubber, but the significant amount of voids in the rubber. For those who may not be aware of what the xmember bushes are, there is a cradle assembly that supports the entire rear end assembly. This cradle assembly is supported to the body by 4 bushings in the 4 corners. What is great about our fix is that we do not replace the bushings. We add HD poly into the voids, which makes this repair very cost effective. All you have to do is lower, under support, the rear cradle bolts, and install the 8 poly its (1 top 1 bottom) with each bushing. It is unbeleiveable what the difference this makes.

The other very loose and overly soft bush set are the bushes that hold the rear differential. Unfortunately, these bushes are not as simple to replace as the Xmembers. With the cradle in place, we loosen the rear bush bolt, and then remove the front diff bush to lower/tilt the differential. Then with the custom made Pedders tools, we press out the soft bushing with an aluminum housing, and install the aggressively firm Pedders bushes. I would be surprise that anyone would have any wheel hop after the inserts and diff bushes have been updated.

mike
dms

Mike,

Did you get wheel hop out of Haddad's F/I G8 in your pretest?

Mike,

Did you get wheel hop out of Haddad's F/I G8 in your pretest?

We had no wheel hop of any kind during my pretest and post test.
Trust me, with the maggie kicked in, we left some serious rubber on the streets of LA!!!

After the TrackII kit was complete, Mike's G8 is not a true man eating animal. Custom brakes are being fabricated for the G8 starting on Monday! Custom wheels are being made, JBA headers have arrived, but have not been installed yet. While I was there, custom gauges were installed in the center of the dashboard. They look really cool. Mike will be the distributor for them. The Borla exhaust that is on there, I did not like. MAkes too much droning noise inside the car. I hate that. So Mike will be changing the catback exhaust.

mike
dms

I have abused numerous bone stock G8s and found no trace of wheel hop. Under what conditions does your G8 wheel hop?

Damp roads, like a few hours after the rain, starting to dry. If the roads are wet, the tires just spin. If the roads are dry, my car doesn't spin off idle.

We had no wheel hop of any kind during my pretest and post test.
Trust me, with the maggie kicked in, we left some serious rubber on the streets of LA!!!

After the TrackII kit was complete, Mike's G8 is not a true man eating animal. Custom brakes are being fabricated for the G8 starting on Monday! Custom wheels are being made, JBA headers have arrived, but have not been installed yet. While I was there, custom gauges were installed in the center of the dashboard. They look really cool. Mike will be the distributor for them. The Borla exhaust that is on there, I did not like. MAkes too much droning noise inside the car. I hate that. So Mike will be changing the catback exhaust.

mike
dms

Pics or GTFO!


:wink2:

Pics or GTFO!


:wink2:

Here it is. Not a good shot. but you should be able to get a good idea from it
Mike is a sponsor on this forum. Haddad Motorsports
mike
dms

Here it is. Not a good shot. but you should be able to get a good idea from it
Mike is a sponsor on this forum. Haddad Motorsports
mike
dms

Those are the JHP/Dede gauges, right? Assuming so, they're beautiful but I can't justify the cost for myself.

Damp roads, like a few hours after the rain, starting to dry. If the roads are wet, the tires just spin. If the roads are dry, my car doesn't spin off idle.

Yea, mine will give a bit of hop too but not on dry roads (which is the only place I should be spinning my tires anyway..). Not bad but noticeable. I only know this because someone else posted about it so I tried it specifically to see if it was accurate,

Those are the JHP/Dede gauges, right? Assuming so, they're beautiful but I can't justify the cost for myself.

http://www.haddadmotorsports.com/catalog/sport-gauges-p-205.html

Yep, same ones.

We had no wheel hop of any kind during my pretest and post test.
Trust me, with the maggie kicked in, we left some serious rubber on the streets of LA!!!

After the TrackII kit was complete, Mike's G8 is not a true man eating animal. Custom brakes are being fabricated for the G8 starting on Monday! Custom wheels are being made, JBA headers have arrived, but have not been installed yet. While I was there, custom gauges were installed in the center of the dashboard. They look really cool. Mike will be the distributor for them. The Borla exhaust that is on there, I did not like. MAkes too much droning noise inside the car. I hate that. So Mike will be changing the catback exhaust.

ms


The gauges look great!! It's what the car should have had from the beginning.
Car hauls butt, too :)

Here it is. Not a good shot. but you should be able to get a good idea from it
Mike is a sponsor on this forum. Haddad Motorsports
mike
dms

Interesting, looks great. I thought dede wasn't offering any options on the needle combo? The white looks good since there are no silver dials avail.

Mike, how do the Track II parts and install on Haddad's car differ from the one you did on mine at the beginning of April?

Interesting, looks great. I thought dede wasn't offering any options on the needle combo? The white looks good since there are no silver dials avail.

Mike, how do the Track II parts and install on Haddad's car differ from the one you did on mine at the beginning of April?

The only difference is the radius rod bushes and the sway bars.

mike
dms

The only difference is the radius rod bushes and the sway bars.

mike
dms

Cool. Thanks for the reply. How's the eye doing?

In our quest to provide the best possible information to our clients and certainly not for any personal enjoyment I have been clocking off some hot laps at www.gingermanraceway.com (http://www.gingermanraceway.com) in the G8. I have also been taking some road trips. Based on these drives I have again lowered the rear of the G8. It now sits at 620mm front and 615mm rear.

http://forums.peddersusa.com/imagehosting/848a34bd84580e.gif

On the track, it is flat and neutral. On the street, fully loaded there have been no issues with clearance. I do drive up ramps as though I were driving a low from the factory vehicle like a Corvette.

Yesterday a couple of GM engineers took a spin in the Pedders USA, LLC G8. Our stated goal is to build a Pontiac G8 that exceeds the performance of a BMW M5. These guys are hard core. They expect perfection. They are frequently frustrated with the compromises that are made to bring vehicles to production. They are hard to please.

While they would like a bit less spring rat in the rear and a bit more damping in the front they feel the Pedders G8 is has met our goal. There isn't much left that can be done with the platform. You have maxed it out. Pedders isn't done yet. We have another tweak or two for the vehicle in addition to tires and wheels. In another 30 days we should be complete right down to a factory GM XM module that interfaces through the OE head.

Brakes -- BMW -- for now
Interior Fit and Finish -- BMW -- You should get something for an additional $45,000
RWHP -- ProCharger -- Advantage Pedders G8
Suspension -- Pedders -- Advantage Pedders G8
Tires -- Pedders G8 -- Bridgestone REO1R
Wheels -- Pedders G8 -- Lighter Forgeline
Bank Account -- Pedders G8 -- Everything will be able to be done at Reatils for $40,000 Less than the BMW

And when all is sadi and done, the G8 LOOKS BETTER.

Yesterday a couple of GM engineers took a spin in the Pedders USA, LLC G8. Our stated goal is to build a Pontiac G8 that exceeds the performance of a BMW M5. These guys are hard core. They expect perfection. They are frequently frustrated with the compromises that are made to bring vehicles to production. They are hard to please.

While they would like a bit less spring rat in the rear and a bit more damping in the front they feel the Pedders G8 is has met our goal. There isn't much left that can be done with the platform. You have maxed it out. Pedders isn't done yet. We have another tweak or two for the vehicle in addition to tires and wheels. In another 30 days we should be complete right down to a factory GM XM module that interfaces through the OE head.

Brakes -- BMW -- for now
Interior Fit and Finish -- BMW -- You should get something for an additional $45,000
RWHP -- ProCharger -- Advantage Pedders G8
Suspension -- Pedders -- Advantage Pedders G8
Tires -- Pedders G8 -- Bridgestone REO1R
Wheels -- Pedders G8 -- Lighter Forgeline
Bank Account -- Pedders G8 -- Everything will be able to be done at Reatils for $40,000 Less than the BMW

And when all is sadi and done, the G8 LOOKS BETTER.
Pretty cool!

Now here is some specs from BMW on the M5:

Entry level into M5 price is Starting at $83,900 MSRP
Premium equipped $93,355 MSRP
engine is 5.0-liter, V-10 engine and 500 horsepower

Rear-wheel drive
17 mpg hwy
5.0-liter, 40-valve V-10 engine with M high-pressure Double-VANOS "steplessly" variable valve timing 10 individual throttle butterflies, electronically controlled
G-sensitive semi-dry-sump lubrication system Oil coolant heat exchanger
Digital Motor Electronics (DME) with on-board diagnostics 3-way catalytic converter with heated oxygen sensor
7-speed Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG) with drivelogic

Handling, ride and braking
Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) with M Dynamic Mode (MDM) All Season Traction with M Variable Differential Lock
Vehicle-speed-sensitive variable-assist power steering (M Servotronic) with M Driving Dynamics Control (2 settings throttle and steering) Aluminum double-pivot strut-type front suspension and 4-link integral rear suspension
Independent suspension with M calibration (stiffened dampers, springs and anti-roll bars; modified rear axle geometry) Electronic Damping Control with Comfort, Normal and Sport mode
Lightweight, double-joint spring strut front axle with aluminum crossbar Lightweight integral rear axle
4-wheel BMW M vacuum-assisted ventilated, cross-drilled anti-lock compound disc brakes (ABS)


M Radial Spoke (Style 166M) light cast alloy wheels, 19 x 8.5 front/19 x 9.5 rear, with 255/40ZR-19 front, 285/35ZR-19 rear performance tires Tire Pressure Monitor system

Weight
Unladen 4012 lb
Weight distribution, front/rear 52.2/47.8 %
Engine
Liters/cylinders/valves per cylinder 5.0/V-10/4
Displacement 4999 cu cm
Bore/Stroke 3.62/2.96 in
Nominal output hp/rpm 500/7750
Max. torque lb-ft/rpm 383/6100
Compression ratio 12.0 :1

Performance
Drag coefficient 0.31 Cd
Top speed1155 mph
Acceleration 0 – 60 mph24.5 sec
Fuel consumption
7-speed SMG transmission – City/Highway 311/17 mpg
6-speed manual transmission – City/Highway 311/17 mpg
Tires and Wheels
Tire dimensions (performance tires) – front4255/40ZR-19
Tire dimensions (performance tires) – rear4285/35ZR-19
Wheel dimensions, front/rear 19 x 8.5 / 19 x 9.5
Material light cast alloy
Brakes
Front – diameter 14.7 inch
Rear – diameter 14.6 inch

Transmission
7-speed SMG gear ratios – I/II/III 3.99/2.65/1.81 :1
7-speed SMG gear ratios – IV/V/VI 1.39/1.16/1.00 :1
7-speed SMG gear ratios – VII/R 0.83/3.99 :1
7-speed SMG gear ratios – Final drive ratio 3.62 :1
6-speed manual gear ratios – I/II/III 4.06/2.40/1.58 :1
6-speed manual gear ratios – IV/V/VI/R 1.19/1.00/0.87/3.68 :1
6-speed manual gear ratios – Final drive ratio 3.62 :1


Fully equipped M5 as follows:
My M5 Sedan
5.0-liter, V-10 engine
Rear-wheel drive
See all standard features
Base MSRP $83,900
Monaco Blue Metallic $0
Black Merino Leather $0
Olive Ash wood trim $0
Manual transmission $0
Comfort Access system $1,000
Fold down rear seats $475
Head-up Display $1,200
Heated steering wheel $200
Multi-function seats with lumbar support $1,900
Power rear sunshade with rear manual side window shades $575
Soft close automatic doors $600
Enhanced Premium Sound $700
HD radio $350
iPod and USB adapter $400
Satellite radio with 1 year subscription $595
High Beam Assistant $250
Rear side-impact airbags $385
Destination & Handling: $825
Total MSRP as Built $93,355


AUTOMOBILE MAGAZINE Reviews indicate the custom driving suspension setups are complicated and confusing, as with all the other inside electronic presets

Now I put all the specs here for a M5, so all you gear heads can have a good time doing a tic for tac comparison.

To spend $45k and get the performance and comfort of a M5 at $93K is pretty cool. Not being prejudice, I do feel a nicely accomplished G8 GT with some custom wheels looks better than a M5.

Now what Pete is still working on are wheels, they are on order, and big brake packages (6 piston calipers) They are in the works. More on them soon!

Enjoy the comparison. What would be fun is to segment the above specs, and post the G8 GT specs next to the M5 specs. Highlight them so they stand out.

Go for it and have fun

mike
dms

My factory / GM XM module was delivered last week at the Woodward Cruise.

http://www.thebothanspy.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/sithprobedroid.gif Thank you very much Crimson Tide! http://www.thebothanspy.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/sithprobedroid.gif


Pedders G8 -- GM Factory XM Radio

My factory / GM XM module was delivered last week at the Woodward Cruise.

http://www.thebothanspy.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/sithprobedroid.gif Thank you very much Crimson Tide! http://www.thebothanspy.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/sithprobedroid.gif


Pedders G8 -- GM Factory XM Radio
Tell us more!!!

As soon as "they" let me...

Most of you already know that Riley Tech has been selected as the EXCLUSIVE builder of the Camaro for the Grand Am Challenge GS Camaro. (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/grand-am-riley-technologies-selected-to-build-camaro-for-koni-challenge/)

What you don't know and I can now say that Pedders worked with GM on the development of this vehicle. The Grand Am Challenge Camaro will run the circuit using what Pedders considers to be daily driver bushes and bits. The OE Camaro will arrive with hydraulically damped radius rod bushes. The OE radius rod bush performs well on the street for most drivers. For the enthusiast driver a hydraulically damped radius rod bush is about as useful as the wrong size driving shoes. They are too compliant. GM asked Pedders to develop a radius rod bush that would withstand the demands of track use. You will be able to buy EP6560C Camaro Radius Rod Bushes, the same bushes we developed for the Grand Am Challenge. It is the same bush we will be using as a basic component of the Camaro suspension.

The Grand Am Challenge is a full on race car. It does not use street style dampers and there are other revisions to the suspension and drive-line. These cars will also be using Pedders eXtreme Castor Washers in addition to the full on hard mount strut bearing with Castor and Camber adjustment. In the rear suspension Pedders EP7267 Toe Link Bushes, 5422 Toe Link eXtreme Washers and EP7266 Rear Control Arm Bush. In testing at the Milford Proving Grounds GM determined that our Pedders Bits met or exceeded their engineering and driving expectations.

Pedders is a unique company. We do not make parts for race cars. We do make some street parts that just happen to perform incredibly well on the race track. Our warranty is also unique. Pedders does not have a racing exclusion. You can take your Pedderised street legal Camaro to the track, flog it. If a Pedders part fails within 24 months or 36,000 miles it is covered under warranty.

We were absolutely thrilled to be invited to work with GM on the development of the Grand Am Challenge GS Camaro. We consider it an honor to have been selected for such a special project. Working with http://www.rileytech.com/ is another honor. To be told that I own the "best handling G8 in the world" by some of the people who have worked on this project is yet another honor. We invite all of you in the G8 community to take pride in the ZETA based Pedderised Chassis that will be racing in the Grand Am Challenge as a GS Camaro.

Tomorrow, Saturday September 13th we will have my Pedderised eXtreme G and a Pedderised GSR G8 in Muskegon Michigan for a Pedders Day. If you would like to experience a Pedderised G8 first hand this is a great opportunity. We will be there rain or shine and hopefully cruising up to Dog n Suds in Montague later in the afternoon.

Man, I wish.....

My factory / GM XM module was delivered last week at the Woodward Cruise.

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Pedders G8 -- GM Factory XM Radio

I wanna hear more about this!

I wanna hear more about this!

Me too!!!

My factory / GM XM module was delivered last week at the Woodward Cruise.

http://www.thebothanspy.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/sithprobedroid.gif Thank you very much Crimson Tide! http://www.thebothanspy.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/sithprobedroid.gif


Pedders G8 -- GM Factory XM Radio


Anything???

Hey Pete, was that you heading north in Indiana Sunday morning?

Anything???

Hey Pete, was that you heading north in Indiana Sunday morning?
Guilty as charged.

Pete, I might be misunderstanding your comments if so I apologize. Does your test car have different wheels? If so can you post a picture of them? Thanks.

The evaluation was with OE wheels and tires. We should be fitting the Forgelines and Bridgestones next week.

Guilty as charged.


I waved! :us_flag:
That's twice i just missed meeting ya.

Hey guys,

The boys at Modern Muscle have been working REALLY hard this week. We have done 3 Track 2s, and 2 touring packages. We do have another touring package tomorrow.

As a special note, Pete Basica will be driving down tonight with his hot G8 with a blower and a the EXtreme Package installed. This is the best handling G8 in the world!!!!!!!!!! Pete will offer roadtests for all G8 owners who require it
Pete will offer his G8 for rides and technical info. This is a really great opportunity to see what Pedders has to offer for the G8 community.

We will have lots of poeple here.

As a special note, Ryan Diem, operator/owner of Modern Muscle is scheduled to show. You all should know who he is being the most active football fanatics in with world!!


The G8 gods have given us perfect weather. To have both Pete and me at the same event is a big deal. So if you have G8 issues, you should come on down. We will do 28 point inspections on all G8 that want them.

See you all tomorrow. I am really excited about it

mike
dms
__________________

We did some testing, but not where we had planned. A military helicopter landed on our taxi way / Pedders morning skid pad with a maintenance issue. So we improvised at the nearby OTB.
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We recorded a constant .94 with peak readings of .97 on OE Bridgestone Potenza 050 in our Pedderised G8 with an eXtreme Track II. The pavement in the lot was rough -- very rough. We literally tore tread blocks from the tire.
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We moved from the GMT900 to the prototype installation of the ONLY ZETA / VE / Commodore / G8 eXtreme Xa adjustable coilovers in the world. Production is now under way and more will arrive in the USA in January.
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The new eXtreme Xa Coilovers are nothing shorty of unbelievable. Comfort, control, comfort and control... One Dealer noted that the G8 with eXtreme Xa coilovers was "better than sex!" They are right even if it is with a $10,000 specialist! The Xa range will include:
Audi
BMW
Chevrolet
Ford
Honda
Lexus
Mazda
Mitsubishi
Nissan
Pontiac
Subaru
Toyota
Volkswagen
We did discover that the G8 rear camber and toe eccentrics are prone to failure. The eccentric washer is tack welded to the bolt. In severe use or after multiple alignment or both the welds fail and the eccentric acts as though it is stripped. It is an easy fix to lay down a bead and the alignment can proceed. That is dependent on knowing they are welded in the first place. The upper rear control arm mounting bracket have a sloppy fit. They can slide in and out 3 to 4mm.
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To get the G8 really dialed in we want the upper rear control arm brackets mounted as close to the rear fenders as possible. The rear trailing arm is also slotted. We like to see this arm locked down after the wheel alignment is complete. This sets the arm in a neutral position in elation to the alignment.
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eXtreme Xa Pedderised G8 Alignment Specifications
Front
Castor +7.75
Camber -1.5
Toe 1 Degree Total Toe Out
A bit of Toe Out improved turn in.

Rear
Toe L 1.17 R -.18
Camber -1.8
Thrust Angle 0.00
Adjust Toe to a Zero Thrust Angle.
The slight toe out improves turn in. At eXtremely high speeds the turn in requires a steady hand on the wheel. We do NOT recommend these alignment setting for tire life or daily driving. These specs are for a very aggressive driver on a road course, or for my personal daily driver. There are a number of other subtleties we discussed at the Dealer meeting to make certain that your local Pedders Dealer knows more about alignments and the cars we service than virtually anyone else.
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Over the next few weeks we will populate our Catalogue with Xa fitment and pricing information. Here is a link to the Xa section of the Pedders USA web site. http://www.peddersusa.com/products/6

Here is a link to the Pedders Catalogue.
https://secure.merlinsoftware.com.au/peddersusa/

Here is a link to the Pedders Dealer Finder.
http://www.peddersusa.com/dealer-finder

We'll get the new wheels and tires on the G8 next week. The goal -- 1G sustained on the skid

My factory / GM XM module was delivered last week at the Woodward Cruise.

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Pedders G8 -- GM Factory XM Radio


Any news??

GM has been a preoccupied with staying in business. Hang in there.

:)what is the part number for the gm xm module so i can add it to my G8



Yesterday a couple of GM engineers took a spin in the Pedders USA, LLC G8. Our stated goal is to build a Pontiac G8 that exceeds the performance of a BMW M5. These guys are hard core. They expect perfection. They are frequently frustrated with the compromises that are made to bring vehicles to production. They are hard to please.

While they would like a bit less spring rat in the rear and a bit more damping in the front they feel the Pedders G8 is has met our goal. There isn't much left that can be done with the platform. You have maxed it out. Pedders isn't done yet. We have another tweak or two for the vehicle in addition to tires and wheels. In another 30 days we should be complete right down to a factory GM XM module that interfaces through the OE head.

Brakes -- BMW -- for now
Interior Fit and Finish -- BMW -- You should get something for an additional $45,000
RWHP -- ProCharger -- Advantage Pedders G8
Suspension -- Pedders -- Advantage Pedders G8
Tires -- Pedders G8 -- Bridgestone REO1R
Wheels -- Pedders G8 -- Lighter Forgeline
Bank Account -- Pedders G8 -- Everything will be able to be done at Reatils for $40,000 Less than the BMW

And when all is sadi and done, the G8 LOOKS BETTER.

Thought this might interest those that had read this thread.

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35237

Any news??


A little late, but I second that question. Any news?

A little late, but I second that question. Any news?

You do realize that this is a thread from early 2008, right?

Tire Doc was the winner. He loved them back then and still does.