I went to a local Pontiac dealer and saw that the G8 GT (first 888) is commanding a $5K dealer markup. The dealer didn't have a V6 model, so I'm wondering if they are marking those up also?

Our Raleigh, NC dealer has a GT and called me three times to come drive it. Black with the sport and premium packages, and a sunroof. They want sticker for it.

Boy, the press uses terms loosely, they everyone applies it to everything. This is price gouging, that is price gouging.

To the dealer, it is profit. And if there is a sucker to pay it, then so be it. Let the sucker pay it. Dealers want to get people to pay higher prices. In many instances, they're succeeding in raising the bar in regards to what people are willing to pay. They get people thinking, "I can't negotiate, its already a fair price; I don't want to be unfair" or "If I offer this, they'll say no anyways." "They said they wouldn't accept lower than sticker."

And they either convince themselves of or buy that crap.

If I could eradicate this disease, I would. But alas, there are people that will pay sticker; blame them.

To the dealer, it is profit. And if there is a sucker to pay it, then so be it. Let the sucker pay it. Dealers want to get people to pay higher prices. In many instances, they're succeeding in raising the bar in regards to what people are willing to pay. They get people thinking, "I can't negotiate, its already a fair price; I don't want to be unfair" or "If I offer this, they'll say no anyways." "They said they wouldn't accept lower than sticker."

If I could eradicate this disease, I would. But alas, there are people that will pay sticker; blame them.

No matter what we all do, we have a price for what we sell - it may be our time or it might be a product. It is grossly unfair to single out car dealers and expect them to discount everything they sell, yet expect them to buy from us, whether it be accounting and legal fees, restaurant meals, books in a bookstore, food at the super market, or any number of other goods and services, at an invoice price. These guys have to live too. I am a CPA deep in the mire of a tax season, I have a limited supply of time - I will not discount it to some yahoo who refuses to pay my March and April rates. He can go to H&R Block. I could maybe see him in July, but not now. We all deal in the laws of supply and demand. Lets cut the crap.

I don't understand how that applies to anything I said. Dealer markup has nothing to do with service fees. Some dealers mark up more than others; it is more regionally determined than by supply and demand.

For example, if I buy a car in South Charlotte, specifically the South Park area I will see a much larger mark up than I see here in Concord, just 20 miles or so north. Both cars being equal, the sticker price of one being higher than the other; if the laws of he fact that some lame-o will pay all that extra is ridicsupply and demand applied, the price should be the same.

However, statistics show that they are not. If I get H&R Block to do my taxes, the fees will be the same whether I live in Buffalo NY, or Charlotte NC.

You can't compare mark-up to static pricing. Not when a dealer can mark the price up by whatever % they choose.

Therefore, I will negotiate a FAIR price. If a dealer wants 38,000 for the same car that another is asking 35,000, according to your logic, that 38,000 is what the person in that area should pay; meanwhile assuming I pay sticker (which I never have and never will), I am paying 35,000. Supply and Demand?

No; one dealer is forking in higher margins than the other. In the interest of being fair, that is definitely not. So, if you have two products of identical specification, one which is marked up significantly higher and you think that you're gonna get that extra money without question? (The you being general obviously, but I feel I have to say this)

Don't bet on it. ;)

My gripe is that there are always fools out there who will buy it. I never have, and I get my way.

And before I am accused of being unfair, I have never expected a dealer to lose money for me. I expect them to sell it at a fair price. Thankfully, most dealers are being fair.

Those who are not, are what applies to this.

It's not gouging. You don't HAVE to buy that car. The dealer can charge as much as he wants to. You can choose to pay that price or you can choose to buy elsewhere.

It's called capitalism.

It's called stupidity, on the part of the suckers so eager to fork over more than sticker. There is no shortage of G8's, there will be no shortage of G8's, there will be no shortage of "gotta have it before anyone else does, gee look at my $2500 dash decals that don't make my car faster" buyers.

However, statistics show that they are not. If I get H&R Block to do my taxes, the fees will be the same whether I live in Buffalo NY, or Charlotte NC.

No, they won't. H&R Block pricing sheets are developed regionally, depending in large part on supply and demand.



My gripe is that there are always fools out there who will buy it. I never have, and I get my way.

Good for you. It then costs you nothing. So let it go!!!!

$5K markup????? lol walk away. walk away.

The car is fair at $40K. It's quite a deal at $32K, which I why most of us are here, I think.

A dealer can ask for what ever they want. I think they are crazy and saw initial GTO sales suffer because when the car should have been hot and moved off the lot dealers were holding out for someone willing to pay over MSRP. I waited then and got my car for 8k less than MSRP when the 04's were being blown out in Jan 05. I will wait this time also. Besides I can't live without XM and they did not include it in this years model.

BTW price gouging can really only exist in utilities, gas, food or other essentials where there are limited or no choices to make. The media misapplies the term for anytime the seller takes advantage of the laws of supply and demand. In reality there are very few cases of gouging as few monoplies exist. In this case there are plenty of choices and no one is holding a gun to anyones head so it boils down to a choice. In America we pride ourselves on freedom and spending our money how we choose is a expression of that freedom. People have the freedom to make a choice to pay more for something than I would and just because they do doesn't mean they are being gouged. If you had any idea what it costs to make many products in your home you would feel alot worse than pay a couple grand more for a 32k car. Example: my wife likes Dooney and Bourke purses, they are about 300-500 bucks each. From a source I heard they cost about $18-24 to make.

BTW price gouging can really only exist in utilities, gas, food or other essentials where there are limited or no choices to make. The media misapplies the term for anytime the seller takes advantage of the laws of supply and demand. In reality there are very few cases of gouging as few monoplies exist. In this case there are plenty of choices and no one is holding a gun to anyones head so it boils down to a choice. In America we pride ourselves on freedom and spending our money how we choose is a expression of that freedom. People have the freedom to make a choice to pay more for something than I would and just because they do doesn't mean they are being gouged. If you had any idea what it costs to make many products in your home you would feel alot worse than pay a couple grand more for a 32k car. Example: my wife likes Dooney and Bourke purses, they are about 300-500 bucks each. From a source I heard they cost about $18-24 to make.

Very well said.

I was surprised to find that all the dealers in the Fort Worth / Dallas area are selling at MSRP. No markups but no discounts, either. Still I think the G8 is one hell of a bargain so I have no issue with MSRP.

I was surprised to find that all the dealers in the Fort Worth / Dallas area are selling at MSRP. No markups but no discounts, either. Still I think the G8 is one hell of a bargain so I have no issue with MSRP.

:iagree: I have kept a close eye on G8 sales in the Fort Worth area and they have stayed right at sticker. But then again, I live in TRUCK COUNTRY.

:iagree: I have kept a close eye on G8 sales in the Fort Worth area and they have stayed right at sticker. But then again, I live in TRUCK COUNTRY.
You have a point there!

King Pontiac. Gaithersburg, MD: MSRP + $4,995 on a G8 GT.

I thought the 1K markup in S FL was ridiculous. For 1K, I'll fly to another dealer and break the car in on the way home.

My dealer here in Sioux Falls SD sold me an 888 GT for military discount price plus gave me a $1000 over local market market price for my trade. Nice dealer to deal with, salesman are not on comission. It's why I keep coming back to them. :) They still have a red GT for sale.

Price gouging usually occurs when something is limited, in demand, rare or sometimes discontinued. The G8 doesn't fall into any of those categories.

Yes this is America...go shop around for the price that suits you!!!

A dealership in Suburban Philly has an Ignition Orange GT that they are selling for sticker, but they tried to add on some 795 dollar paint coating. What is that ??? They might as well just call it a market adjustment as try to sell me some snake oil like that.

Well, no dealers here are even letting you test drive without basically buying the car first (!!!). I guess I'm out of the game at this point. I refuse to beg a dealer to let me test drive a car. Not like I'm some sort of smelly homeless crack-whore wandering in off the street; in fact, the salesman was drooling all over my 335i coupe. This is just like the GTO all over again. I'll check back in late summer; maybe by then they'll come down off their high-horse.

A dealership in Suburban Philly has an Ignition Orange GT that they are selling for sticker, but they tried to add on some 795 dollar paint coating. What is that ??? They might as well just call it a market adjustment as try to sell me some snake oil like that.

That's the wax job they normally put on for free

Well, no dealers here are even letting you test drive without basically buying the car first (!!!). I guess I'm out of the game at this point. I refuse to beg a dealer to let me test drive a car. Not like I'm some sort of smelly homeless crack-whore wandering in off the street; in fact, the salesman was drooling all over my 335i coupe. This is just like the GTO all over again. I'll check back in late summer; maybe by then they'll come down off their high-horse.

Was it a manager you talked to? they took one they got fresh delivered and just ripped off the plastic and filled it up just so i could test drive it. All depends on who you talk to. One day i go in there im told i can come back for a drive that they need to get the cars ready, next day im told i cant drive them by another person. third time i speak to a manager and they say whomever that salesperson saying i cant drive it was is a moron. Needless to say i went out on a test drive with the first person i talked to and even he even asked "was it the tall guy that told you no? yeah hes a freakin idiot". It all depends on who you talk to.

as far as mark-ups, my dealership started at 3k markup and realized it was BS so they dropped it to 1500, by the time i buy mine late may they wont care to do mark ups im sure, and ill walk out at MSRP garanteed. Dont go for the dealer's BS, tell them "i want this, if you wont give it to me dont waste my time." and when they say "well i can do this" or "but sir" just walk out. There is plenty of pontiac dealers around the nation and its only $700 to ship a car.

I went to a local Pontiac dealer and saw that the G8 GT (first 888) is commanding a $5K dealer markup. The dealer didn't have a V6 model, so I'm wondering if they are marking those up also?

They pulled this crap when the Solstice first came out. Now the lots are covered with them.

They pulled this crap when the Solstice first came out. Now the lots are covered with them.
Lots of dealers will take advantage of early adopters the same way. They know better than anyone that today's hot commodity is tomorrow's day-old news.

My dealership around here is marking them up $3000. They now have 4 GT's and a 888 model that has been on their lot since early March. (1st G8 they got) They haven't sold one G8 yet. Gee, I wonder why. Most dealerships around the area will do msrp. The reason on the additional sticker is "limited availabity". That is the biggest bunch of bull**** I've just about ever heard. I'm working w/a dealer about hour and half away that will do gm supplier no problem.

Travis

say "7k for a sunroof an premium package??? wow.... "

then they say "no it's only 2k... "

then you say "well pontiac states most powerful car for under 30k."

then walk away :comp:

I'll never understand why people get pissed at dealers that charge more than MSRP. They should charge what the market will bear - I certainly would. On the flip side, am I ripping the dealer off if I buy an unpopular vehicle for 8K under sticker? No one ever seems to have an issue with that.

Is someone who pays 5K over sticker a sucker? Could be, but just because it would be stupid for you to do so doesn't mean it is for them. If they have plenty of money but very little time to search around, and are willing to pay to be the first on the block to have this hot new car, so be it. 5k is a big deal to me, but for some folks, not so much.

I always try to get my money's worth, and plan on getting a G8 in about 6 months when the exitement has died down a bit, and the new Challenger is in full production. However in the meantime, I am concerned about the value of my Bonne dropping like a rock. My trade value is at 15k right now, but in 6 months when you can pick up a clean slightly used 2008 G8 for 24k, who is gonna pay 15k for a 45k 2005 FWD Bonneville?

I'll never understand why people get pissed at dealers that charge more than MSRP. They should charge what the market will bear - I certainly would. On the flip side, am I ripping the dealer off if I buy an unpopular vehicle for 8K under sticker? No one ever seems to have an issue with that.

Is someone who pays 5K over sticker a sucker? Could be, but just because it would be stupid for you to do so doesn't mean it is for them. If they have plenty of money but very little time to search around, and are willing to pay to be the first on the block to have this hot new car, so be it. 5k is a big deal to me, but for some folks, not so much.

I always try to get my money's worth, and plan on getting a G8 in about 6 months when the exitement has died down a bit, and the new Challenger is in full production. However in the meantime, I am concerned about the value of my Bonne dropping like a rock. My trade value is at 15k right now, but in 6 months when you can pick up a clean slightly used 2008 G8 for 24k, who is gonna pay 15k for a 45k 2005 FWD Bonneville?
You can only hope to get a slight used G8 and for $24K. I really doubt it. But I hope you do and can.

Travis

Here's a question for all of you defending the gouging dealerships:

IF you were to drive off the gougers lot and turned around and drove right back on, after buying your car at the gougers price, and IF they would immediately buy it back from you, would they give you back the gouge with the price? I sincerely think NOT! :nono::nono::nono:

Here's a question for all of you defending the gouging dealerships:

IF you were to drive off the gougers lot and turned around and drove right back on, after buying your car at the gougers price, and IF they would immediately buy it back from you, would they give you back the gouge with the price? I sincerely think NOT! :nono::nono::nono:

What a big word IF is. Why not talk about the difference between retail and wholesale markets? This whole thread is getting very tiring.

Here's a question for all of you defending the gouging dealerships:

IF you were to drive off the gougers lot and turned around and drove right back on, after buying your car at the gougers price, and IF they would immediately buy it back from you, would they give you back the gouge with the price? I sincerely think NOT! :nono::nono::nono:
Why even put forth a hypothetical like this?

Dealers have a right to charge whatever the market will bear. You as a consumer have a right to purchase, or not.

What's the issue?

First 888 MSRP 31,985 + 5000 Midway Pontiac Arizona...I was:fawkdance:

First 888 MSRP 31,985 + 5000 Midway Pontiac Arizona...I was:fawkdance:

First 888 MSRP 31,985 Got mine for 29,995 Shaver Pontiac California :fawkdance:

Wife and I stopped by the local pontiac dealer today to look at and possibly buy a new G8 GT.I drove the car ( ingition orange) and thought it had nice power and handled well.. it was nice driving a new rwd car for a change. then my wife and i swapped so she could drive. the salesman is sitting in the back rambling on about all kinds of specs and pointless details. we get stopped at an intersection waiting for the light to go green when i notice Dawn pushed the traction control button. next thing i know the light turns green and she STOMPS the gas pedal to the floor. back tires went up in smoke and she lets off the pedal salesman is white faced and silent..she looks at me with a big grin and says "i want it" . so we get back and we are doing the haggling on financing and trade in..i notice that the sales price on the sales order is 36800.00 and the sticker on the car says 31800.00 I ask and he tells me it's a dealer admin charge because the car is a hot ticket item and the markup was 10,000.00 a month ago and they have reduced it. they werent willing to budge on the 5000.00 additional markup and we ended up leaving in our loaded 07 Grand prix GT that they said was only worth 10K trade in value.

.....Dawn pushed the traction control button. next thing i know the light turns green and she STOMPS the gas pedal to the floor. back tires went up in smoke and she lets off the pedal salesman is white faced and silent.............. we ended up leaving in our loaded 07 Grand prix GT that they said was only worth 10K trade in value.

:gears: Way to go, Dawn!!

Some of these dealers are ridiculous when they try to sell these cars for bogus prices. There are many of these cars available and anyone paying even $1 over sticker is paying too much. This dealer was really trying to hose you on your trade, too. I traded an '05 loaded GP GT for 10,000 and I didn't think that deal was that great.

...the sales price on the sales order is 36800.00 and the sticker on the car says 31800.00 I ask and he tells me it's a dealer admin charge because the car is a hot ticket item and the markup was 10,000.00 a month ago and they have reduced it. they werent willing to budge on the 5000.00 additional markup and we ended up leaving in our loaded 07 Grand prix GT that they said was only worth 10K trade in value.

So the dumb asses have had the car for a month and only reduced the markup by half! They didn't happen to notice that everybody in town was selling for MSRP and that the economy is in the toilet? Offering you only $10K for a year old car is just stupid! In effect, they wanted to screw you on the G8 price, and screw you on your trade-in! What a guy! You should be sure to post the name of this wonderful dealership so it can join the infamous Avoid at All Costs List!:The_Villagers:

You should be sure to post the name of this wonderful dealership so it can join the infamous Avoid at All Costs List

Willamette Pontiac in salem Oregon

Willamette Pontiac in salem Oregon

Thanks from all of us in the PNW! G8 GTs are getting scarce in this area, even thou there are quite a few listed on the Pontiac site. Look around, you'll find one to your liking. Or, find a good dealer, one not out to screw you, and after the 17th of May, have them tag an '09 that meets your needs. Word is '09s will get to the dealers quicker than the '08s, to the point that one ordered in May could arrive late June. Good hunting!:angel:

Greenfield Pontiac near Milwaukee was asking 5K over. I found another dealer about 15 minutes away that was asking MSRP for virtually the same car (the MSRP car had the sunroof, the 5K over didn't)

I bought the MSRP car at Lynch in Burlington (just outside Milwaukee) Great people to work with. Stay away from Greenfield.

It's not gouging. You don't HAVE to buy that car. The dealer can charge as much as he wants to. You can choose to pay that price or you can choose to buy elsewhere.

It's called capitalism.

Do you negotiate when you buy a refigerator? A computer?

Not usually. You shop for the best value and price.

Years ago Saturn came out and said that there was no negotiation - you pay what is listed. I don't know if they still do that or not.

I absolutely HATE the negotiation game. The "let me go talk to my manager mind games" crap. I think most people would be happier to get service from a salesman who tries to do the best for his customer, even if it ends up costing them a few hundred dollars more. But most negotiations end up being an us vs. them deal that is totally exhausting and a time waster. And most of the salesmen I've encountered do not know their product. I always know more about the vehicle I'm interested in than the sales people do. Imagine if that were the case at my job? I'd be fired, just like most of the sales people that move from dealer to dealer because they don't meet their quotas. You can call it capitalism, but I think this sales system stinks.

Fortunately the last two times I've bought vehicles I've used the GM Supplier discount, which totally disarms the salesperson and makes the process so much easier.

The other issue here is whether the dealers selling for over MSRP price are hurting GM in the number of units it can build and sell. Sure, the dealer can charge whatever he thinks the market will bare, but if these units sit on lots for months, it has to be hurting GM's sales. As far as I know, GM does not interfere with what the individual dealers charge.

The other issue here is whether the dealers selling for over MSRP price are hurting GM in the number of units it can build and sell. Sure, the dealer can charge whatever he thinks the market will bare, but if these units sit on lots for months, it has to be hurting GM's sales. As far as I know, GM does not interfere with what the individual dealers charge.
True, but you know they take a hit on a lot of vehicles too. I'm sure it is hard to make anything off of an SUV or truck right about now.

And by the way, you can negotiate on computer and refrigerators and anything you want to buy. You'd be surprised how well it works too. We are just used to it when buying a car. I agree with you it is a waste of time and that it stinks.

And by the way, you can negotiate on computer and refrigerators and anything you want to buy. You'd be surprised how well it works too. We are just used to it when buying a car. I agree with you it is a waste of time and that it stinks.


Bestbuy will usually budge at least 10%, sometimes upwards of 20% depending on what kind of product you're buying. I do it for every large item I buy.

Hello all 1st post. Lurking for about two months.

I just left a local SoCal dealership looking at a White GT. They had a $8000.00 markup sticker on the window, but when they brought out the "deal" paperwork it was a near $4000 mark up about $35000 total. The sales team tried to tell me I would not be able to get the car for less than $35000 for about 1.5 hours. I told them I don't pay markup for any car. They said thanks and I said thanks and walked out.

I try to get the MSRP as the OTD price which includes tax and license when I buy cars. This car I will pay MSRP + tax and license though and that's it :boink:

Oh yeah I negotiate at Circuit City & Best Buy too.

Do you negotiate when you buy a refigerator? A computer?

Not usually. You shop for the best value and price.

Years ago Saturn came out and said that there was no negotiation - you pay what is listed. I don't know if they still do that or not.

I absolutely HATE the negotiation game. The "let me go talk to my manager mind games" crap. I think most people would be happier to get service from a salesman who tries to do the best for his customer, even if it ends up costing them a few hundred dollars more. But most negotiations end up being an us vs. them deal that is totally exhausting and a time waster. And most of the salesmen I've encountered do not know their product. I always know more about the vehicle I'm interested in than the sales people do. Imagine if that were the case at my job? I'd be fired, just like most of the sales people that move from dealer to dealer because they don't meet their quotas. You can call it capitalism, but I think this sales system stinks.

Fortunately the last two times I've bought vehicles I've used the GM Supplier discount, which totally disarms the salesperson and makes the process so much easier.

The last major house related electronics purchase was a 61" Samsung DLP TV at Circuit City.

I had the print outs from some bigger online sellers at $2995. and CC was selling this tv for 3695, on sale from 3895 (this was 11/2004).

I told them to match it and I'd be a buyer.

They matched it.

I bought it.

You can negotiate everything.

Better luck next time.

I agree with Its Gr8t!

You gotta play hardball with some of these salespeople. I use to buy into that game a loooong time ago when I was buying a new car. Thanks to the internet today people shopping for a car are very knowledgeable about the vehicle they're interested in and it's price. When some jerk of a salesman starts playing that game I tell them this straight to their face.

"You tell me everything you want about the car and why the price of the vehicle is this much over sticker and all but this is what I'm willing to pay. If not then I'd like to thank you for wasting your time! I can find a dealer that won't waste mine"
See what they try and say behind that! If they don't budge then that car wasn't meant for you. What's worst is that dealerships that have mark-ups on semi popular cars usually end up losing money cause months from now that car won't be so new to anyone interested by mid year or year end. Who's gonna be dumb enough to pay over sticker then...NOBODY!!!

Remember this car ain't no high end rare vehicle...it a Pontiac not some Porsche!!!

I agree with Its Gr8t!

You gotta play hardball with some of these salespeople. I use to buy into that game a loooong time ago when I was buying a new car. Thanks to the internet today people shopping for a car are very knowledgeable about the vehicle they're interested in and it's price. When some jerk of a salesman starts playing that game I tell them this straight to their face.

"You tell me everything you want about the car and why the price of the vehicle is this much over sticker and all but this is what I'm willing to pay. If not then I'd like to thank you for wasting your time! I can find a dealer that won't waste mine"
See what they try and say behind that! If they don't budge then that car wasn't meant for you. What's worst is that dealerships that have mark-ups on semi popular cars usually end up losing money cause months from now that car won't be so new to anyone interested by mid year or year end. Who's gonna be dumb enough to pay over sticker then...NOBODY!!!

Remember this car ain't no high end rare vehicle...it a Pontiac not some Porsche!!!

I'm fairly certain that is just about what everyone does in this day and age. But like Gr8t said, it is still a game. I HATE it too. If you go in and say I am willing to pay MSRP then they lowball you on your trade in. Then we you give them your number on your trade in or even if you don't have a tradein, then they throw PowerPack, rust proofing, or some other made up charge to keep the game going. They are there all day and most of the time don't have anything else to do, other than squeezing more money out of you. As always, stick to your guns, but unless you have an inside track to the stealership, you will play the game.

I'm fairly certain that is just about what everyone does in this day and age. But like Gr8t said, it is still a game. I HATE it too. If you go in and say I am willing to pay MSRP then they lowball you on your trade in. Then we you give them your number on your trade in or even if you don't have a tradein, then they throw PowerPack, rust proofing, or some other made up charge to keep the game going. They are there all day and most of the time don't have anything else to do, other than squeezing more money out of you. As always, stick to your guns, but unless you have an inside track to the stealership, you will play the game.

I get the benefit of living in New England, I assume this also works for California.

GM is taking a hammering here. People just don't buy GM, unless its a truck.

They tried to get me on a $5000 markup over MSRP, and low-balled me by $2000 on my trade-in, right from the getgo. I stopped the salesman mid-sentence and told him we wouldn't have a deal, unless I got MSRP and the average of KBB and NADA for my trade-in. He said this was limited production, blah blah blah. I told him to have the best of luck selling a V8 with $4 gas prices, in New England, where Pontiac has a hard time selling anyway, along with the two other G8 GTs on the lot, and proceeded to walk out the door. Needless to say, I got MSRP, what I wanted trade-in, as well as the $1000 loyalty dollars.

Its a game, I have learned to play it, and I NEVER pay what other people pay for just about anything I buy. Except for groceries and whatnot.

I get the benefit of living in New England, I assume this also works for California.

GM is taking a hammering here. People just don't buy GM, unless its a truck.

They tried to get me on a $5000 markup over MSRP, and low-balled me by $2000 on my trade-in, right from the getgo. I stopped the salesman mid-sentence and told him we wouldn't have a deal, unless I got MSRP and the average of KBB and NADA for my trade-in. He said this was limited production, blah blah blah. I told him to have the best of luck selling a V8 with $4 gas prices, in New England, where Pontiac has a hard time selling anyway, along with the two other G8 GTs on the lot, and proceeded to walk out the door. Needless to say, I got MSRP, what I wanted trade-in, as well as the $1000 loyalty dollars.

Its a game, I have learned to play it, and I NEVER pay what other people pay for just about anything I buy. Except for groceries and whatnot.
My point is that it never ends. If you get your price, then they get you on trade in. You make it past that hurdle then they try the rust proofing, accessories, document fees and anything made up that you might buy. Then unless you pay cash, they get you on terms. Their system is multi-tiered to separate you from your money. They do this so in the end, you feel like you got them because they let you win on something that you were passionate about. Usually price.

The only way to really win to to have cash in hand and say I will trade you this cash for that car, no more and no less.

The games sucks because unless you have cash, you cannot win. If you leave the negotiation, then you lose because you don't have the car. If you have the car, then they win because you gave them enough that they were willing to let you take the car.

BTW - if you haven't noticed by now, I'm more of a half empty kind of guy.

G8Smitty, I think we're on the same page. You mention trade in, well a trade-in is still apart of the GAME!

Maybe I should clarify, my buyers tactics only work when you eliminate the trade-in equation, have your own financing IE credit union, cash and good credit score. If your credit is marginal then you'll have less bargaining power and that's when the dealer negotiation games begin. I have bought my last 3 cars using that tactic. Nowadays your dream car can be just a phone call away. Dealerships can fax or email you everything listed about the car and price.

All I'm saying is if dealerships are out to make huge a profit on a mid market buyer, most stealer-ships will use greedy tactics because of certain buyers don't care cause they either got deep pockets or don't understand the buying process! It's buyers like that that keeps price gouging strong and well. And lets face it the G8 is marketed for the middle to upper class person. At $30K rich folks aren't interested in this car so why do dealerships try and stick it to the middle class??? :(

Like the saying goes "A fool and his money will soon part" :drink:

If you'd paid over sticker for any non collectible car then you have literally bought into the hype!!! :judge:

My point is that it never ends. If you get your price, then they get you on trade in. You make it past that hurdle then they try the rust proofing, accessories, document fees and anything made up that you might buy. Then unless you pay cash, they get you on terms. Their system is multi-tiered to separate you from your money. They do this so in the end, you feel like you got them because they let you win on something that you were passionate about. Usually price.

The only way to really win to to have cash in hand and say I will trade you this cash for that car, no more and no less.

The games sucks because unless you have cash, you cannot win. If you leave the negotiation, then you lose because you don't have the car. If you have the car, then they win because you gave them enough that they were willing to let you take the car.

BTW - if you haven't noticed by now, I'm more of a half empty kind of guy.

I agree. They *tried* to seperate me from my money. I went into the dealership knowing what I was willing to pay. I left paying that exact amount. I walked in with a "blank" check from my Credit Union, told them my bottom line, they came to it.

The funniest part, well two parts.

1.) I told the salesman he had exactly ONE trip to the sales manager. No more then one. After he used his one, and tried to use another, I said "Well, I guess we're done." Sales manager heard me, came over, gave me what I wanted.

2.) Salesman asked for my keys, to check out my trade-in. I told him "No, you cannot have the keys. I know how this game works. You and the sales manager walk out into the parking lot, out of my sight. You light up a cig, BS about the game last night, then come back in, never having looked at my car, and try to low ball me". He just stared at me for a good 15-20 seconds, and said "You've done this before, haven't you?". I laughed. My wifey was almost embarassed.

2.) Salesman asked for my keys, to check out my trade-in. I told him "No, you cannot have the keys. I know how this game works. You and the sales manager walk out into the parking lot, out of my sight. You light up a cig, BS about the game last night, then come back in, never having looked at my car, and try to low ball me". He just stared at me for a good 15-20 seconds, and said "You've done this before, haven't you?". I laughed. My wifey was almost embarassed.


My experience with dealers has been interesting to say the least. My last vehicle purchase was a Yukon XL Denali. I never mention a trade in until I get to the price of the new vehicle first, then we hash out the trade-in. Last purchase we traded a 2002 Yukon XL Denali for a 07 Denali and the guy didn't even bother looking at it, just gave me book value and called it a day. The trade-in was beat to sh*t, needed new rubber, ran like crap, needed brake work, how it even made it to the dealer without dropping dead I don't know. LOL


If a dealer knows that you are well informed and knowledgeable they tend to play fewer games and take you more seriously. IMO

The price mark up is an interesting mix for the dealership and the car manufacturer. First, the buyer who does pay the premium will have a cool new toy for a couple of months that everyone will have, eventually. They will also have some buyer's regret after that exclusivity wears off and will likely feel a little burned and not be a repeat customer. Then, those that really want to buy the car but will not pay a premium may look at a different make of car altogether. Align that with the increasing fuel costs, burned buyers, and turned off interest, and we will have G8's sitting in a lot in a year with meager interest and some sort of financial incentive to buy. The car depreciates more, the current owners vow never to buy a Pontiac again since it is a waste of money, and the G8 becomes a marketing failure. GTO all over.

Had to deal with a similar situation yesterday myself. Found loaded black gt about 3 hours from me. Called the dealer in the morning to make sure he still had it and ask about the asking price. He says MSRP + $3K . I told him no chance in hell and I would find another one. Found a Gray one an hour away, decided to go for that one. Paid MSRP + tax and tag. (not thrilled about paying MSRP either but i love the car)

As I am waiting for my new car to be washed and filled up the first dealer calls my cell and asks if I found one? I say yes. He says MSRP? I say yes. He say damn I was hoping you wouldnt find one. Nice.

A couple of years ago, I was buying an '04 Pilot for my wife. Yes, she was involved in the test drives and decided she wanted this one, but didn't want anything to do with the purchase. I'm in industrial sales so I actually enjoy buying a car...and I have walked away a few times.

I knew what I was willing to pay and he did the "I'll have to talk to my manager" thing twice. Since we were still several hundred dollars apart, when he returned, I asked to see his business card. I then started writing my cell phone number on the back and told him to call me if they wanted to sell that Pilot at that price, but that they had 24 hours to call. After that, I'm looking for another one.

He took the card to the Sales Manager, and returned saying they would do it.

He then tried to add a $395.00 doc fee.

"Nope"

"But by law, we have to charge everyone the same amount."

"Then reduce the price $395.00, add the doc fee, and we're good."

That worked too.

It does seem as if the doc fees are going up. Frankly, I have always payed them and not said too much but not saying I am right....probably should "negotiate" on that too I suppose. When I bought the Pontiac a couple of weeks ago the doc fee was 250.00 which does seem rather high. It's funny I have had them as low as 50.00 and as high as 250.00....

doc fee is complete dealer profit

I usually buy a car as an investment. If I cannot get a fair percentage off of MSRP, then I will never buy the car. If you have a trade in, then you have more to work from. The dealer usually trys to play the how much do you want for your trade, and just reduce that from the discount on the car you are purchasing. There is only one number that is important to me, trade difference. Trade difference is the amount of money + my trade that I have to give the dealer to get a car. I do not really care what the trade in value is, or the MSRP. I look up the dealer cost on Edmunds.com or similar sites. I then look at the trade in value on my car and come up with a figure in my head. In the case of the G8 the initial offer of $14,500 trade difference. I asked them to sharpen their pencils with giving a counter offer. They came back at $12,200, that was as good as they could do. Ironically that was my estimate of true value, so I made them an offer of $11,000 to do business that day. The same usual stuff happened, the sales manager came and introduced herself, and said it could not be done, then grudgingly accepted it. It turns out the extra $1000 was from a rebate I did not think I was eligible for. In the end I think the dealer gave me about $1500 more in trade than I deserved, and still got a nice discount on the G8.

But my buying habits are different, since I trade every two years. I never make any mods to the vehicle or add anything. I put that money in the bank for the next car. My best estimate is that the G8 will cost me $4500/yr to own. Dealers love my cars, because the are immaculate 2 year old vehicles. The last two that I traded did not require any detailing, and went straight to the used car lot the next day.

My husband worked on our dealer for 3 days. He must had talked to three or four people and the manager. I was trading in a 2002 Chevy Suburban with 50,000 miles on it. It was a batting game of back and forth. The end result? They were asking 33,000, hubby got them down to 30,000. Then they only wanted to give 7,000 for Suburban , Hubby nailed them to 11,000. That was really fair for a dealership( since Kelly blue book was 13,000). Then 1,000 off for return customer and 1,000 for our gm card. 17,000 with Tag,Tax and Title I walked out with my new G8 GT owing 20,000. Then husband fought for rate. We ended up with 66 months 5.9%. However we are going to be using our credit union next month to get a 3.9% rate. I think we did good. We used Carriage Pontiac in Temecula,Ca.

Call around for sure. I called a total of 5 different dealers in my area before I even contemplated a test drive. 3 of the 5 were charging markups ranging from 1 to 3k, another wanted to charge me 400.00 for the black paint, and the last guy I spoke with said "are you kidding, come on in, no markups here." I will be doing my shopping/test driving with them. The dealership you purchase from is only as greasy as the owners hair will allow.

How does $1,100 under MSRP for a GT, Premium, Sunroof and All-season tires sound? Only catch is the vehicle is just shipping now, not due in till end of June?

No prep, doc. fees, etc. just the DMV and taxes.

Some dealers closer to where I live are still looking for MSRP or over.

I usually buy a car as an investment.

Considering that cars are depreciating assets, they make absolutely no sense as an investment. Might as well go to the casino.

I usually buy a car as an investment.
What cars do you buy that appreciate enough in two years that you realize a net profit after accounting for the cost of insurance, gas, and maintenance?

Considering that cars are depreciating assets, they make absolutely no sense as an investment. Might as well go to the casino.
"Might as well go to the casino."

OH, OH! We do that all the time. Eh, can anybody spare a few bucks? I'm really sick of dry cat food. :p

Fuuny, I went back tot he dealer to checkup on anoter car i was thinking of buying my kid and just for Sheet n Grins i went over to see the red G8 (been there since the two weeks i bought mine) and noticed a new sticker that said "dealer invoice add on 5K" Wow i thought these things are going up in price??? Then he had another sign on top of it that said dealer discount 3K.....

so i'm wondering if it's just a dealer's trick to get people thinking they are getting a better deal???

kindda like department stores mark everything up 50% then give you a 10% discount?


Nobody is buying these cars...at least not the sensable people...folks are trying to giveaway their trucks and monster v-8 engines away for a 4 cyl "practicle" car.....i think dealers are just tryiing to entise folks to buy a 6L gas guzzling hold on to your pants beast......sensable people have no idea what they are missing....

"Might as well go to the casino."

OH, OH! We do that all the time. Eh, can anybody spare a few bucks? I'm really sick of dry cat food. :p

Sounds like its time for another road trip to sell more stuff!:wink2:

Fuuny, I went back tot he dealer to checkup on anoter car i was thinking of buying my kid and just for Sheet n Grins i went over to see the red G8 (been there since the two weeks i bought mine) and noticed a new sticker that said "dealer invoice add on 5K" Wow i thought these things are going up in price??? Then he had another sign on top of it that said dealer discount 3K.....

so i'm wondering if it's just a dealer's trick to get people thinking they are getting a better deal???

kindda like department stores mark everything up 50% then give you a 10% discount?


Nobody is buying these cars...at least not the sensable people...folks are trying to giveaway their trucks and monster v-8 engines away for a 4 cyl "practicle" car.....i think dealers are just tryiing to entise folks to buy a 6L gas guzzling hold on to your pants beast......sensable people have no idea what they are missing....

Sorry for my laughter at this one, but the G8 is very much alive and well according to dealer statistics, hence the markup. People who drive 1+ hour to work will probably not want a G8, but for people who live close to their place of employment, the G8 is a kick A#$ ride. And comparatively speaking, the G8 gets decent MPG vs other midsize sedans; especially older V8 models that don't transform into a 4 banger on the E-way.

G8 = Gasoptimusprime

Fuuny, I went back tot he dealer to checkup on anoter car i was thinking of buying my kid and just for Sheet n Grins i went over to see the red G8 (been there since the two weeks i bought mine) and noticed a new sticker that said "dealer invoice add on 5K" Wow i thought these things are going up in price??? Then he had another sign on top of it that said dealer discount 3K.....

so i'm wondering if it's just a dealer's trick to get people thinking they are getting a better deal???

kindda like department stores mark everything up 50% then give you a 10% discount?


Nobody is buying these cars...at least not the sensable people...folks are trying to giveaway their trucks and monster v-8 engines away for a 4 cyl "practicle" car.....i think dealers are just tryiing to entise folks to buy a 6L gas guzzling hold on to your pants beast......sensable people have no idea what they are missing....

I couldnt disagree with you more. The G8 is a very desirable car and very much in demand at least where I live. You cannot find one on dealer lots and when you do it doesnt stay there very long. The car does get decent mileage for a V8 and is a hoot to drive....no it isnt any Civic when it comes to mpg but it also is a heck of alot more fun to drive then a Civic.

Fuuny, I went back tot he dealer to checkup on anoter car i was thinking of buying my kid and just for Sheet n Grins i went over to see the red G8 (been there since the two weeks i bought mine) and noticed a new sticker that said "dealer invoice add on 5K" Wow i thought these things are going up in price??? Then he had another sign on top of it that said dealer discount 3K.....

so i'm wondering if it's just a dealer's trick to get people thinking they are getting a better deal???

kindda like department stores mark everything up 50% then give you a 10% discount?


Nobody is buying these cars...at least not the sensable people...folks are trying to giveaway their trucks and monster v-8 engines away for a 4 cyl "practicle" car.....i think dealers are just tryiing to entise folks to buy a 6L gas guzzling hold on to your pants beast......sensable people have no idea what they are missing....

Not sure what part of the country you are located but this is definately not true where we live......trucks are still in high demand here....we just bought a 2008 Chevy 4X4 extended cab loaded, leather,headrest dvd players,navagation, black rims,black running boards,bedrails etc we traded in a loaded 2007 Avalanche for it....we had to have it brought down to us since we couldn't find one locally....anything similiar sells off the lot quick....that was the end of January....we just got the red G8 GT with sports package last month......two people that we know have gotten one (they had to have theirs brought down four hours away because there are no more here)....if there were more on the lot here I am sure they would sell! We also have a Tahoe and a Suburban 2500 that we don't plan on letting go of anytime soon

I couldnt disagree with you more. The G8 is a very desirable car and very much in demand at least where I live. You cannot find one on dealer lots and when you do it doesnt stay there very long. The car does get decent mileage for a V8 and is a hoot to drive....no it isnt any Civic when it comes to mpg but it also is a heck of alot more fun to drive then a Civic.

My local dealer has 5. 2 GTs and 3 sedans, two of which have been sitting there for a little over 2 months.

You will find them sitting around for months whenever you find a dealer not willing to deal. If you want to charge excessive amounts over MSRP on the premise that the car is rare and special, then you will be paying rent on your lot for them for a while. If you are smart and sell them for a profit, a reasonable profit, without screwing your customers, you will sell thru and be on the list to get more for '09. As limited as the production is of the G8, I seriously doubt GM is going to waste cars on dealers that jackup the price to ridiculous amounts, then sit on the cars for months. GM wants to sell these cars and get them in the hands of excited owners who will pass the word on their virtues! That will increase demand and keep the factories running at maximum production/efficiency rates.:slap:

You will find them sitting around for months whenever you find a dealer not willing to deal. If you want to charge excessive amounts over MSRP on the premise that the car is rare and special, then you will be paying rent on your lot for them for a while. If you are smart and sell them for a profit, a reasonable profit, without screwing your customers, you will sell thru and be on the list to get more for '09. As limited as the production is of the G8, I seriously doubt GM is going to waste cars on dealers that jackup the price to ridiculous amounts, then sit on the cars for months. GM wants to sell these cars and get them in the hands of excited owners who will pass the word on their virtues! That will increase demand and keep the factories running at maximum production/efficiency rates.:slap:

I totally agree. My local dealer (didnt buy from them) has had three GTs and all have sold within days. The thing is he sells them for msrp with nothing tacked on. The dealer I purchased mine from knocked off 1,000 and I also had a trade (Audi) which he gave me a very fair trade on.

Agree - there are two Pontiac dealers near me - one has multiple G8's sitting, one is sold out as soon as they come in. Guess who sold me mine?

Went to two dealers near me yesterday and some interesting developments are occuring.


At the first dealership they have 5 G8 GT's there and they haven't sold one in the last 7 weeks. They were originally asking MSRP for them. The ones they had stickered for $31,395. I offered $1000 off of MSRP and they came back with $800 off. Not bad I thought. I asked them why these cars haven't been selling and the sales manager said that these 5 have to last them until the 09's come in.

The second dealership had only 2 cars and they've sold exactly 1 in the last month. The two that they have have been there for over one month. Now this place originally wanted $3,000 over MSRP one month ago. They are beginning to come to their senses a bit b/c they want MSRP now. They have the car I want (Black, Sport pack) but these guys are serious tools. First time I stopped there, the pinky ring wearing salesguy wanted me to leave a deposit and do a credit check to test drive the car. I was like WTF! I told the guy good luck with that approach. This same dealership has an orange G8 that they tinted the windows, added a rally stripe, and added black ASA wheels with the original Goodyear RS-A all-seasons. This "rally package" as they called it added $4,999 to the sticker!! Are they serious?? :bs: Oh...almost forgot this car is number 686 or something of 888 and is a "collectors car". For this fact add another $5,000!! Almost $10,000 more than MSRP. These guys are absolute slimeballs and should be selling used cars.:judge:


From my observations, in this major metro area, the tides are turning in our favor. Gas prices are hurting sales, no doubt! There are plenty of cars sitting on lots and they have been sitting there for quite some time. A little different scenario then the dealers want you to believe.

when i originally posted to this thread a while back i got discouraged and gave up for a while. Today i started looking again and found a dealer that has 5 on the lot and is asking MSRP with no additional markup. just for fun i went to Willanette Pontiacs web page and holy crap!!! they got even more greedy. now asking 39K for a 09 G8 GT and they have 5 of them on the lot. i'll be paying 33210.00 with the sport package and a few other extras

http://www.willametteauto.com/new-inventory/index.htm?reset=InventoryListing#invHistory:reset= InventoryListing&inventoryView=fullview&invtype=new&SByear=2009&SBmake=Pontiac&SBmodel=G8&SBbodystyle=Sedan&start=0

...just for fun i went to Willanette Pontiacs web page and holy crap!!! they got even more greedy. now asking 39K for a 09 G8 GT and they have 5 of them on the lot. http://www.willametteauto.com/new-inventory/index.htm?reset=InventoryListing#invHistory:reset= InventoryListing&inventoryView=fullview&invtype=new&SByear=2009&SBmake=Pontiac&SBmodel=G8&SBbodystyle=Sedan&start=0

Just out of curiosity, do you know if they have been selling any at that price? Your deal sounds pretty good! When do you take delivery?

the 08 Ignition orange car i test drove a couple months back is gone.. I have no idea if they got their 5K dealer markup but i would imagine somebody paid it. They are pushing for me to take delivery today on the 09 but i dont feel like they are giving me fair trade in for my 07 Grand Prix GT. it's a flawless bronzestone with Tan leather and has 36K on the odometer and they say it's only worth $10,000 trade value. I 'm thinking about keeping the GP and getting the G8 as a second car.

I know it's not a G8 but I stopped by my local Dodge dealer to check out the one and only silver Challenger on the lot. They had a frickin' 20K mark up on the thing! It had a "sold" sign on the dash so somebody wanted it bad enuf.

I know it's not a G8 but I stopped by my local Dodge dealer to check out the one and only silver Challenger on the lot. They had a frickin' 20K mark up on the thing! It had a "sold" sign on the dash so somebody wanted it bad enuf.

1 of 2 reasons why i now have a g8 gt instead of a challenger ;)

1 of 2 reasons why i now have a g8 gt instead of a challenger ;)

By the end of 2009 I plan on having both. :wink2:

Btw... what's the 2nd reason?

the 08 Ignition orange car i test drove a couple months back is gone.. I have no idea if they got their 5K dealer markup but i would imagine somebody paid it. They are pushing for me to take delivery today on the 09 but i dont feel like they are giving me fair trade in for my 07 Grand Prix GT. it's a flawless bronzestone with Tan leather and has 36K on the odometer and they say it's only worth $10,000 trade value. I 'm thinking about keeping the GP and getting the G8 as a second car.

I traded a flawless black '04 Bonnie GXP with only 13K miles and got $14500 for it! And got my '09 G8 GT for $500 over invoice! The mileage, at 36K, seems kinda high for a two year old car, 18K per year. I think they consider average somewhere in the range of 12-15K. But that shouldn't knock the price down that far! Check out the online sources (KBB, Edmunds, NADA) and see what its worth!:wink2:

I paid MSRP of $33.100 for a 2009 G8 GT in PSM color with 19'' Sportspackage and premium package.

I got $3500 in trade in for my 99 Grand Prix GTP with 136k miles on it. I had $1000 GM card and 2000 additional cash on top of that. Got 4.75% interest for 60mo......payments are 475/month.

charging OVER sticker is crazy...ITS A PONTIAC!!!! NO disrespect to GM, I have always owned GM, but JUST like GTO if they keep this up they will have 12 on them on each lot and have to sell for -5000 and 0% again...there are STILL 06 GTOs on lots, its crazy.

They have a NICE car...sell it normal, a little over invoice, and thats fair game esp. with NO incentives.

Seriously....you try to buy GM and they start this crap..its annoying. For over 32 im going with a nissan, or a BMW, Lexus, etc.

Hopefully I can find a reasonable dealer who wants to move a car in a slow economy.

I paid MSRP of $33.100 for a 2009 G8 GT in PSM color with 19'' Sportspackage and premium package.

I got $3500 in trade in for my 99 Grand Prix GTP with 136k miles on it. I had $1000 GM card and 2000 additional cash on top of that. Got 4.75% interest for 60mo......payments are 475/month.

I think, there is a typ0 in your contract:
$33,100-$3,500-3000 = $26,600 @ 4.75 for 60 months = $498.93 per month and that does not include state tax or dealer/tag fees

not only is his math off....how the hell did he get a dealer to give him 3500 for a 99 with high ass mileage?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?