Today I got my April issue of Motor Trend in the mail. They do a short blurb on the car, and then a first drive in the Holden Commodore SSV. In the blurb, the G8 GT is the V6 model with standard 18" aluminum wheels, power front seats, foglamps, chrome exhaust tips, rear lip spoiler, OnStar and XM radio, ABs and four wheel discs, traction control and electronic stability control, and a bunch of airbags. The V8 model is going to be the G8 GTP, 362 hp 6.0 liter with cylinder deactivation, 6 speed auto with manual mode, the 6 speed manual available after launch, 19" sport package wheels, and sportier suspension settings.

In the article about the SSV, Matt Stone, likes the chassis, the steering, the brakes, and suspension. But griped about the panel gaps and fitments on the interior as well as some of the materials, same problems other GMs have here (but it was an early launch press car, excuses). There is plenty of room inside and the ergonomics are good. They compare the G8/SSV to the outgoing V8 M5. SSV gets standard leather, automatic climate control, and a trip computer. They say to look for the V8 GTP to start around $35-$36 with an on sale date of January 2008. A GXP is expected later with a 400-425+ hp version of the 6.2 V8 in the current Excalade, and alot of the HSV GTS equipment, brakes, suspension, wheels, etc.

Those were abridged versions of the full articles, for more buy the magazine or wait for them to go online. They aren't up yet, buy I am sure someone will post when they are. And sure enough someone did....thanks to sandiegan for the link to the Motor Trend Commodore SSV Test.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0704_2007_holden_commodore_ssv

Sounds pretty good. Many would be very satisfied if the G8 was a (much) less expensive previous-generation M5.

Cool!!!

Looks like there is hope for horsepower!! :aus_flag:

GTP starting at $35K? Are they seriously thinking they're going to sell very many? I've been a big Pontiac fan in the past and even owned a few -Trans Am/Formula Firebirds. I really want to like the upcoming G8, but I don't think I can pay that for a Pontiac.
I can get an Infiniti G35 sedan which is just as quick, if not quicker, will no doubt handle better (weighs almost 500 pounds less), and will definitely have better build quality and better re-sell for less money. The starting MSRP is $32250 for the sport model.
Sorry, I just need to vent my frustration with Pontiac for missing the boat again. Give me fewer options and lower that price! I just don't see how they can price it that high to be in the same playing field as a G35, Acura TL, and IS350... Sure, the G8 will have more interior room, that's all I can think of that it has over the others.

Fitment issues? Hasn't the SSV been out for over a year now? I'm lost...

Plus I agree with jerminator 35K? That's rediculous. I'll pay 35K if the quality is on par with the TL...

How about if the quality is on par with a $40,000 plus Caddy CTS-V? Or are we going to go on an all GM cars suck because they are not built in Germany or Japan rampage.

True $35k should buy one hell of a more car than $20k but compare it to the other American brands, Ford, Dodge, before complaining that already its a pos since it can't compare to a measly Sentra or Matrix.

Plus I agree with jerminator 35K? That's rediculous. I'll pay 35K if the quality is on par with the TL...

Rethinking this.....I agree, in part. We at least ought to get the 6.2 aluminum block L92 403 HP like in the Escalade if we have to pay 35K. That would be reasonable.

How about if the quality is on par with a $40,000 plus Caddy CTS-V? Or are we going to go on an all GM cars suck because they are not built in Germany or Japan rampage.

True $35k should buy one hell of a more car than $20k but compare it to the other American brands, Ford, Dodge, before complaining that already its a pos since it can't compare to a measly Sentra or Matrix.

I'm not comparing it to a Sentra... I'm comparing it (or rather what was said about it) to another 35K car with renowned build quality, the TL.

If the GTP is 35K That means the GXP will be in the 40s!

All I can say is... NO!


Once again they are priced outside their target!

And do not give me that crap about the SRT cars being in that range. I still say the Pontiac is priced too high.

If the GTP is 35K That means the GXP will be in the 40s!

And do not give me that crap about the SRT cars being in that range. I still say the Pontiac is priced too high.

Hey now! Evidently there are people out there willing to pay +$40k for a brick. :rolleyes: ...a fast brick, but still a brick.

I'm surprised no one has jumped in yet to wave the white flag of :bs: on this blurb. Pontiac has stated publicly the G8 vanilla model will be the V6, the GT will be the V8. Unless GM changed course overnight since the Chicago auto show or Pontiac PR are pathological liars, MT is wrong. MT occasionally can be just plain silly. See virtual Camaro vs. virtual Mustang article where they compared performance of cars and engines that didn't actually exist. I also don't think of all the magazines out there, GM would be giving MT an exclusive scoop on pricing. I prefer to wait and see. If the cars are scheduled to be shipped out in November, ordering would have to open up soon, at least by May or June one would think. What was the ordering timetable in 2003 for the GTO? I'm sure MT didn't like the interior as they use BMW as the gold standard for everything.

I thought the regular G8 was going to be the V6 and the GT was going to be the V8 too. I don't put much stock in what the car rags have to say about upcoming cars, example the perpetually coming in 2 years Nissan Skyline. They said the SSV tested was an "early launch press car". So before you even let MT touch the car, you have the Australian motoring press put the screws to it. There opinion matters when the car isn't coming to America. So things may not have been straight by the time they Motor Trend could get to it. I think this is a bit expensive too, but because of its size you shouldn't compare it to the G35 but the M35/45 and 5 series, both of which start above $40. I highly doubt the build quality will be there to compete with these cars but I think the driving dynamics might be. It should certainly best the Charger, and Ford currently doesn't have anything (rumored to be looking at the Australian Falcon).

I'm surprised no one has jumped in yet to waive the white flag of :bs: on this blurb. Pontiac has stated publicly the G8 vanilla model will be the V6, the GT will be the V8. Unless GM changed course overnight since the Chicago auto show or Pontiac PR are pathological liars, MT is wrong. MT occasionally can be just plain silly. See virtual Camaro vs. virtual Mustang article where they compared performance of cars and engines that didn't actually exist. I also don't think of all the magazines out there, GM would be giving MT an exclusive scoop on pricing. I prefer to wait and see. If the cars are scheduled to be shipped out in November, ordering would have to open up soon, at least by May or June one would think. What was the ordering timetable in 2003 for the GTO? I'm sure MT didn't like the interior as they use BMW as the gold standard for everything.

Had I seen this earlier, I would have raised the BS flag. MT used to be a decent magazine. Within the last few years, they have turned into a magazine just trying to make a profit. If it entices the reader to want to buy this car or that car, then you buy their magazine. MT has been wrong before, & will be wrong again. I'm not worried about pricing until it comes from the General's mouth.

You guys get all excited because MT says pricing might be $35k? When did MT become the authority on GM pricing?

Common sense says the G8 will be priced right on the Charger, since that will be its primary competitor. And the Charger R/T V8 starts at, what, $30k? Figure that for the G8 V8 starting price, and the V8 model will come with a lot of standard features..

For those of you comparing the G8 to Acura TL, Infiniti G35 and Lexus IS350. Have you driven these cars? Their V6 engines will not compare to G8's V8 performance, even though they have fine V6s. They will lack torque, big time, versus the G8 V8. Mostly, at least with these competitors, its apples vs oranges, though the pricing is somewhat similar (you'll find the IS350 at $36k to start).

You guys get all excited because MT says pricing might be $35k? When did MT become the authority on GM pricing?

Common sense says the G8 will be priced right on the Charger, since that will be its primary competitor. And the Charger R/T V8 starts at, what, $30k? Figure that for the G8 V8 starting price, and the V8 model will come with a lot of standard features..

For those of you comparing the G8 to Acura TL, Infiniti G35 and Lexus IS350. Have you driven these cars? Their V6 engines will not compare to G8's V8 performance, even though they have fine V6s. They will lack torque, big time, versus the G8 V8. Mostly, at least with these competitors, its apples vs oranges, though the pricing is somewhat similar (you'll find the IS350 at $36k to start).

Yes, I have driven both 6-speed and automatic versions of the 2006 G35 sedan, an auto 2007 G35 sedan, and a TL. True, it's a V6 and has nowhere near the torque the G8 will have, but it's also almost 500 pounds lighter and does not need as much torque to provide similar acceleration. The only reason I compare the G35 sedan, TL, and G8 is that I'm actually in the market to purchase a new sedan and will possibly wait until I can test drive a G8 later this year for comparison before I buy. I know the G8 is larger, and that's why it interests me. Plus it's a great looking car and hopefully cheaper too. If the GT version starts around $30K, then I'll definitely put it on the short list.

The Charger SRT-8 starts at 35K

jerminator,

Fair enough, you know the cars are vastly different. The prices are either similar (G35 6-spd starting at $32,250) or higher (TL-S 6-spd at $38, 125, IS350 at $35,075).

The first digit of the V8 price better be a 2, otherwise Pontiac missed the boat again. There will always be a small group of enthusiasts who will pay whatever is asked, otherwise Ferrari wouldn't be around. But to make a volume seller, which equates to longevity on the market, you need to appeal more to the masses. There are several 35K cars with 4 doors, great torque, reliability, good build quality and an important piece Pontiac hasn't figured out - higher resale value. These are the reasons we only saw GTO sales, within their model year, of less than 10K each, and BMW sold 508,479 3-series cars in 2006.

UpstateV8,

You're not being too fair in your comments. Yes, we know the G8 will be sold as a "Domestic", even though its built in Oz. And a Pontiac, a brand that has been taking it on the chin for some time (exception: Solstice).

But to suggest they have to give them away to succeed is going too far, I think. The G8 will be priced against its primary US competition - Dodge Charger. If that means they slip just under $30k MSRP with the V8 base price, well OK. Tell me what other mid-size performance V8 sedan starts under $30k? Answer: None.

I should have added V8 RWD performance mid-size, of course.

RWD 4 door sedans in the $25-35k range as per NADA

2007 Ford Crown Victoria$27,615
2007 Chrysler 300-Series$28,320 - $34,975
2007 Mercury Grand Marquis$29,570
2007 Mercedes-Benz C Class$29,650 - $33,400
2007 Cadillac CTS$29,825 - $32,685
2007 Lexus IS 250$30,255 - $31,425
2007 Dodge Charger$30,515
2007 Infiniti G35 Sedan$31,450 - $33,450
2007 BMW 3-Series$32,400

FWD 4 door sedans 25-35k as per NADA

2007 Honda Accord Sdn $25,050 - $29,400
2007 Mazda MAZDA6$25,130 - $27,750
2007 Volkswagen Jetta Sedan$25,185
2007 Volkswagen Passat Sedan$25,255 - $30,180
2007 Volkswagen Passat Wagon$25,320
2007 Audi A3$25,340 - $26,820
2007 Kia Amanti$25,495
2007 Buick Lucerne$25,660 - $34,690
2007 Saab 9-3$26,170 - $32,475
2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid$26,200
2007 Chevrolet Impala$26,365 - $27,970
2007 Ford Five Hundred$26,610
2007 Toyota Avalon$26,875 - $34,065
2007 Buick LaCrosse$26,980
2007 Mitsubishi Galant$26,999
2007 Hyundai Azera$27,135 - $27,335
2007 Mercury Montego$27,400
2007 Toyota Camry$28,020
2007 Nissan Maxima$28,050 - $30,300
2007 Acura TSX$28,090 - $30,090
2007 Audi A4$28,240 - $29,440
2007 Volvo S40$28,390
2007 Nissan Altima$28,400
2007 Pontiac Grand Prix$28,745
2007 Lincoln MKZ$29,235
2007 Volvo V50$29,590
2007 Volvo S60$30,885 - $32,735
2007 Honda Accord Hybrid$31,090 - $33,090
2007 Lexus ES 350$33,470
2007 Acura TL$33,625
2007 Saab 9-5$34,370

4 door sedans 35-45k as per NADA all configs

2007 Mercedes-Benz C Class$35,200 - $40,400
2007 Saab 9-5$35,465
2007 Audi A4$35,540 - $38,640
2007 Lexus IS 350$35,705
2007 Dodge Charger$35,920
2007 Acura TL$36,125 - $38,325
2007 Volvo XC90$36,135
2007 Chrysler Town & Country LWB$36,605
2007 Chrysler 300-Series$37,075 - $40,420
2007 BMW 3-Series$38,700
2007 Volvo S80$38,705
2007 Volvo S60$38,985
2007 Saab 9-7X$40,990
2007 Cadillac DTS$41,390 - $44,390
2007 Infiniti M35$41,450 - $44,550
2007 Audi A6$41,950
2007 Lincoln Town Car$42,175
2007 Cadillac STS$42,250
2007 BMW 5-Series$43,500
2007 Lexus GS 350$44,150

Now, who is willing to pay $25,500 for a Kia Amanti with a V6 and not $25,500 for a Pontiac G8 with a V6?

Or, better yet, who is willing pay $35-$40k for a Charger or 300 but not, $30-$35k for a G8.

Look at the top 12 or so (in price) fwds in the lower price category, $28000 for a Camry or $34000 for a Saab that won't get out of the way of my 2003 stock GTP. Everyone's wish for 362 hp maxed out for $25k is old news, even Kia can't do it.

Now, who is willing to pay $25,500 for a Kia Amanti with a V6 and not $25,500 for a Pontiac G8 with a V6?

Or, better yet, who is willing pay $35-$40k for a Charger or 300 but not, $30-$35k for a G8.

Look at the top 12 or so (in price) fwds in the lower price category, $28000 for a Camry or $34000 for a Saab that won't get out of the way of my 2003 stock GTP. Everyone's wish for 362 hp maxed out for $25k is old news, even Kia can't do it.

People arent saying that at all. Most people have come to terms with the fact that the base GT with the V6 should be in the $25k- I HIGHLY doubt there are still people out there holding their breath for the V8 to cost $25k.

Now for the V8 version, I know we all want it to start at $29k or whatever. The V8 Charger starts at $30k and with discounts is down at $28k. I think for the power the G8 is bringing to the market, a starting price of $30k is reasonable. That will leave room for the 6.2 G8 to compete with the SRT Charger, which I am sure, combined with the base Hemi version will be getting power tweaks in the next couple of years.

I stand by the sentiment that the V6 will start at $25k with a loaded version costing about $30k, while a base V8 will set you back $29 and loaded will be something like $34k. This leaves room in the $35-40k range for the 6.2 version.

Chief - thanks for the data, but let's keep the conversation relevant to the market the G8 is targeted for. This car is competing against the BMW, Audi and Acura TL, not Crown Vics or Hyundai's. There may be some outliers to my point, but I'm talking about the people who peruse this site once a month for info, not daily like us. We are the 20% who love the car because its a V8/RWD with the driving performance of a Euro sport sedan, but that's not enough to keep this car economically viable to GM. We NEED the other 40,000 buyers that will make it worth GM's effort to keep this car on the road beyond 3 years (*cough - GTO - cough* ... don't go there on the safety/appearance as the reason the GTO is dead for now). I'm not trying to slam the car (I love it) or the value it gives for $35K. I'm slamming GM's marketing if they think they can sell 50,000 of them at the higher price range. Stig validated my point by stating the Charger is currently discounted to $28K to get them moving. To restate my original point - $29,995 HAS to be the entry price for the V8 base, no more - its a psychological barrier, I know - but don't underestimate its importance GM.

This is one reason I ended my subscription to Motor Trend. As most of you have stated, even Pontiac's own press release said their would be the base V-6 and the V-8 GT. Everything I'm seeing indicates the GTP range is being phased out. The base V-6 will sticker around 25500 and up to maybe 30000, and the V-8 GT will start around 29500 and up to about 34000. I think Lutz himself has indicated that the GTO was priced to start with too high. Also, something tellls me dealers will be very reluctant to add "premiums" to this car. They need to sell cars, period.

Who wants to pay 40,000 dollars for a loaded V8, when in 3 years its going to be worth less than 20.

Who wants to pay 40,000 dollars for a loaded V8, when in 3 years its going to be worth less than 20.

The few (very few) that will keep it forever.

achieftain,

Somehow you ignored the V8 in my comments about competitive vehicles. I said there were few V8 RWD competitors at anywhere close to the proposed G8 pricing and I'm right. A Ford Crown Vic? Oh, come on.

The G8 targeted at BMW, Audi and Infiniti? Pontiac would be foolish to assume that, as those buyers are quite different than those who venture into most Pontiac stores. Now I don't mean Pontiac shouldn't want those buyers, but they have to be realistic - most buyers of the entry-lux cars won't usually consider a Pontiac of any description. If the G8 pulls some of those buyers over (and it will), that'd be icing on the cake. The cake is Charger/300 buyers.

just as a note, the press cars were all pre-production versions, so are now have about 10 months worth of journo's hammering them around under their belts ...

The first digit of the V8 price better be a 2, otherwise Pontiac missed the boat again. There will always be a small group of enthusiasts who will pay whatever is asked, otherwise Ferrari wouldn't be around. But to make a volume seller, which equates to longevity on the market, you need to appeal more to the masses. There are several 35K cars with 4 doors, great torque, reliability, good build quality and an important piece Pontiac hasn't figured out - higher resale value. These are the reasons we only saw GTO sales, within their model year, of less than 10K each, and BMW sold 508,479 3-series cars in 2006.



BMW sold 120,180 3 series cars in 2006 in the US, of which only about 17000 were coupes. Only 1791 M3 coupes were sold in 2006.
If the GTO was a sedan a lot more would have been sold.

BMW sold 120,180 3 series cars in 2006 in the US, of which only about 17000 were coupes. Only 1791 M3 coupes were sold in 2006.
If the GTO was a sedan a lot more would have been sold.

Just gotta throw this out there. Do you think there is any possibility that a GXP is not coming at all?? Could they make it a GTO?? I know there is a big potential for backlash from purists like happened with the 4 door Charger, but it would be interesting if Pontiac decided to go this way. If they did, we could see a new GTO in a little over a year from now.

Maybe the hypothetical GXP is a two door........

I thought the regular G8 was going to be the V6 and the GT was going to be the V8 too. I don't put much stock in what the car rags have to say about upcoming cars, example the perpetually coming in 2 years Nissan Skyline. They said the SSV tested was an "early launch press car". So before you even let MT touch the car, you have the Australian motoring press put the screws to it. There opinion matters when the car isn't coming to America. So things may not have been straight by the time they Motor Trend could get to it. I think this is a bit expensive too, but because of its size you shouldn't compare it to the G35 but the M35/45 and 5 series, both of which start above $40. I highly doubt the build quality will be there to compete with these cars but I think the driving dynamics might be. It should certainly best the Charger, and Ford currently doesn't have anything (rumored to be looking at the Australian Falcon).

MT probably wrote the editorial article and news item piece prior to the Chicago Auto Show and because of publication deadlines, was unable to update the stories with correct details.

Aside from their impressions on driving the SSV, the info is less reliable than what GM has put out since the Chicago Auto Show.

Who ever said the TL is high quality? :banghead: That is thrown around here pretty loosely, the TL is not what it used to be, I owned an 04 TL for a short 3 months until they bought it back (without lemon law and without mediation) because they knew it was a POS from the start. There are many build/quality issues with the TL, just visit the TL forums, there are plenty of issues, they couldn't even get the drive train right, and put it out anyway (just look at the TSB for harmonic vibration on the 04's and the complaints for the 05's too), then there was the TSB because the tires vibrated too much too. There are plenty of door panel issues, headliners falling, leaks under the back seat, leather issues, etc, etc.

The prior gen TL's also had tranny issues that Acura/Honda tried to sweep under the rug, just ask any pre 04 owner about their tranny, and most will tell you that all the auto gearboxes were replaced at one point or another.

My 2 cents is that the TL relies on its past reputation, and for many years has had too many issues, but we all think of it as a high quality car, I for one have lost that sentiment.

Don't get fooled by Acura PR of a precision crafted automobile, they lost that years ago, but are relying on that reputation to carry them! I can tell you of many owner's stories that I have discovered since my short ownership of the TL.

As for the G8 GT, Lutz has publicly said it will be cost competitive with the Charger, so don't worry, the V8 will start around $30k

There is a huge amount of interest in the G8 GT, even from luxury marks, so when it gets here, I think they will sell out the 30k imports they expect, I'll guarantee it. :gears:

The TL is FWD. To some that may not be important, but for me, I'll take RWD over FWD anyday.

I doubt this article is true. I just picked up and read it, and a few things tip me off.

1. GM said that vanilla G8 would be the V6, and the V8 would be the GT. MT is saying that there is a V6 model, a GT model which is basically the same V6 with accessories, then a V8 model called the GTP.
2. MT then equates that the GTP (V8) model will be priced at a whopping ~$35,000. Thats rediculous because Bob Lutz said himself one of the biggest mistaks GM did with the GTO was pricing it too high. They said GM was shooting for the mid 20s for the G8. Now obviously the V6 model will be there, but 10K jump for a V8 ?

Rediculous and simply cannot be true. We're just going to have to wait for GM to publically announce a price I guess.. but I'm standing firm on my guess of ~$29.9K for the V8.

Who ever said the TL is high quality? :banghead: That is thrown around here pretty loosely, the TL is not what it used to be, I owned an 04 TL for a short 3 months until they bought it back (without lemon law and without mediation) because they knew it was a POS from the start. There are many build/quality issues with the TL, just visit the TL forums, there are plenty of issues, they couldn't even get the drive train right, and put it out anyway (just look at the TSB for harmonic vibration on the 04's and the complaints for the 05's too), then there was the TSB because the tires vibrated too much too. There are plenty of door panel issues, headliners falling, leaks under the back seat, leather issues, etc, etc.

The prior gen TL's also had tranny issues that Acura/Honda tried to sweep under the rug, just ask any pre 04 owner about their tranny, and most will tell you that all the auto gearboxes were replaced at one point or another.

My 2 cents is that the TL relies on its past reputation, and for many years has had too many issues, but we all think of it as a high quality car, I for one have lost that sentiment.

Don't get fooled by Acura PR of a precision crafted automobile, they lost that years ago, but are relying on that reputation to carry them! I can tell you of many owner's stories that I have discovered since my short ownership of the TL.

As for the G8 GT, Lutz has publicly said it will be cost competitive with the Charger, so don't worry, the V8 will start around $30k

There is a huge amount of interest in the G8 GT, even from luxury marks, so when it gets here, I think they will sell out the 30k imports they expect, I'll guarantee it. :gears:

Granted that every car has its problems, whether it be engine sludge or roofs flying off, and truth be told I dont know enough about TL problems to comment on whether or not your comments are justified- I just know that for a FWD car I am VERY impressed with what Acura has done, both with regards to reliability (which has always been a Honda hallmark) and the quality of the automobile. Look at the interior of a TL:

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2007/Acura/2007.acura.tl.20103085-E.jpg

You have soft touch plastics, varying textures, clear gauges- it is a very classy space to be and a very high quality space to be for the money- actually I dont think you could find a nicer interior for the money.

Now lets take a look inside the Lucerne CXS, a FWD GM for about the same price ($34k)

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2005_chicago/0502_01+2006_Buick_Lucerne+Interior_View_Steering_ Wheel.jpg

Are you really going to tell me that the TL isnt that impressive with regards to quality when put side by side with a complrably priced luxury sedan?


We should only hope that the interior of the G8 is as good as the TL's.

My brother owns a 2006 TL, and its a phenominal car. I'm done with FWD though, so ... G8 :)

...............lets take a look inside the Lucerne CXS, a FWD GM for about the same price ($34k)

Are you really going to tell me that the TL isnt that impressive with regards to quality when put side by side with a complrably priced luxury sedan?


We should only hope that the interior of the G8 is as good as the TL's. First off, I do not consider a Buick a luxury car, also the Lucerne CXS shares the IP with the lower base priced 25K Lucerne, where as the TL starts in the 33K, so better materials are used to start with. So while the price of the fully loaded Lucerne is the same as the base TL (after discounts) I would not consider the two in the same league and is an unfair comparison. I am sure the G8 will be closer to the Lucerne IP, but slightly better, still not up to the feel and texture of the TL.

However, I can tell you that the Acura TL is not all that it is cracked up to be, there are numerous issues of squeaks and rattles from the IP and glove box, door panels, etc, and almost all cars with the black top IP cover (black and gray interiors) are having problems where the top of the dash on the passenger side is turning gray around where the airbag is (it is a one piece dash cover over the airbag, so the thinner wall sections show as gray a year later). Also there are unequal gaps, the aluminum trim dents, etc, etc.

The interior looks great on the surface, I will say that, and really attracted me to the car, but the beauty is only skin deep, then the rest of the issues start to surface.

With all the tranny problems they had in the past, and early 3rd gen TL's and uneven tire wear issues for the rear tires on the new TL, I still say that Acura/Honda is resting on its reputation for quality, and the new cars don't show it (even the new RL has huge issues). Yes the TL is now in its 4th model year, so many of the issues are fixed, but for Acura, it took them 3 years too many for company of their stature.

I would read the TL forums when you get a chance, you will be in for a big surprise if you think they build quality.

Sorry, I did not mean to hijack this part of the thread, but wanted to reply.

Upon reflection:

I test drove 3 different M45s – each the Sport model – before settling on my Corvette last Fall.
I decided to spend a little time looking at how the G8 would seem ( based on preliminary information ) to stack up on specifications, since I was quite impressed with many dynamic aspects of the M.

I hereby acknowledge that the M45, at just over $50K for the Sport model, is not a direct competitor to the G8 GT \ V8. So, there. But anyway:

Weight appears similar – The M45 is just over 4,000.
And it did handle reasonably well, as far as I could tell in my test drives.
( I never really push for anything like maximum cornering speeds on a test drive. )
The M45 Sport rides on 245/40x19s – where the G8 looks like it will have exactly the same sized rubber.
And the G8’s near equal F\R weight distribution is clearly a positive.
And specifying an LSD is a “good thing”.

The 5 speed manumatic trans. in the M45 is one reason that I decided against the M. The trans. behavior was actually OK. But. I happen to have a ( not very rational, but very strong ) preference for low RPM at cruising speeds. My Corvette shows just over 1,500 RPM at 70. The M is geared for 2,300 RPM at 60 ( and close to 2,700 at 70 ) and I simply find that engine speed “too high” – for me. Not that the motor will not happily turn those RPM – and Infiniti seems confident that the motor will last. At least for the duration of their warrantee period: 6 years \ 70,000 miles, as I recall.

GM, obviously, will be warranting their drivetrain for 5 \ 100,000.

Partly due to this gearing, the M45’s EPA highway MPG rating ( 23, for 2007 ) is not particularly impressive. I wonder what the G8 will post. ( Under the new 2008 testing procedures. ) And I wonder if the M45 will ( finally ) offer a six speed automatic by MY 2008. I’ll predict that with the M45 at 17 \ 23 now and expected to be at 16 \ 21 for 2008 ( according to EPA estimates ) the G8 GT \ V8 with automatic trans. will post something like 17 \ 23 for MY 2008. ( 2 MPG better than the prediction for M45 – and 2 less than the predicted 2008 ratings for the Corvette with automatic, assuming the same drivetrain. ) Perhaps, with AFM, the G8 will actually achieve a higher highway number?

One big contributing factor to the M45’s acceleration ( satisfying, for a fairly large 4-door sedan, typically posting high – or even mid-13s at something over 100 ) is the relatively aggressive gearing. And gearing that requires no 2-3 shift before completing the 0-60 run, and no 3-4 shift before the end of the quarter mile.

The HP \ TQ ratings for the M45’s V8 are: 335 \ 340. ( Premium )
The G8 is 362 \ 391. ( Regular )
With a bit less weight, but also with substantially less aggressive final drive gearing, I wonder what the actual, independent test numbers for the G8 will finally be. The 6L80 does provide a reasonable overall first gear ratio ( 2.92 final times 4.03 first gear = 11.76 to 1 ) but the M45 overall is 12.87 to 1. Hmm. And second for the M is 2.37 and 7.96 overall – vs the G8’s second gear of 2.36, but 6.89.

My guess, based on all this ( certainly does not qualify as real ‘analysis’ ) is that the G8 GT \ V8 with automatic will end up posting very similar numbers to the M45 for 0-60 & the quarter mile.

Speaking of ‘finally’, it sure seems odd to me that GM has released such specific information close to a year before the expected North American launch of the G8. 2 or 3 months seems like a timeframe that would allow a continuation of interest until the cars actually appear & are available for a test drive. 10 or 11 months? Again, seems rather odd, to me.

By then, I suspect that many people will have forgotten all about the G8.

Anyway, I am completely ignoring any comparison of interior fit & finish, materials, ride quality, etc. here – as no production version exists for anyone outside GM to test.

I am hoping the best for the G8 – notwithstanding my earlier comments about my surprise at the projected weight - and I do expect that I will test drive one at some point.

If the G8 can produce similar driving dynamics, at a price closer to mid-$30s than $50K, I will be impressed. And a GT \ V8 may make my short list next time around.

- Ray
Still interested . . .


= = =

Gearing.
M45:
Final drive: 3.36:1
Top gear ( fifth ): 0.83
G8:
Final drive ( A6 ): 2.92
Top gear ( sixth ): 0.67
[ fifth = 0.85 ]

Length.
M45: 192.6
G8: 196.1

Wheelbase.
M45: 114.2
G8: 114.8

Width.
M45: 70.8
G8: 74.8

rls: My posting of comparative pricing was not meant to imply that the G8 would or could compete against all of them. It ust seemed that there were several comments against a high performance rwd V8 sedan coming in at a price range of $30k to $35k. It was simply to point out what else smopetes pricewise and I frankly think that even at $35k for value recieved the G8 will be a bargain. At $29,995 it will be a steal. To assume that the G8's only targets will be other rwd V8s is to be shortsighted. The one thing I take away from the MT article (which finally arrived today) is that they feel it is more in line with the BMW 5 series, not 3.

Bob Lutz did indicate a md 20s pricing to start and repeatedly has said the Charger is a prime target for this vehicle. He performed with a sub 20k price on the initial Solstice, so we'll have to wait and see.

rayain: I think you are hitting on something, the G8 will perform like a M45 at a G35 price. Like an A6 at an A4 price, like a BMW M5 at M3 price.

If the OP wants to paste this into his original thread, here it is for you all :)

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0704_2007_holden_commodore_ssv

Motortrend is full of it
I myself will listen more to what mister Lutz says about pricing and even Car and Driver has a more reasonable pricing found here in this article

http://www.caranddriver.com/autoshows/12462/2008-pontiac-g8.html

Motortrend is full of it
I myself will listen more to what mister Lutz says about pricing and even Car and Driver has a more reasonable pricing found here in this article

http://www.caranddriver.com/autoshows/12462/2008-pontiac-g8.html

If you configure & price ( and I have done this ) a European car, on their ‘native’ web site, convert the price to $s at the current exchange rate & compare that to the actual MSRP on an identical car here – you will typically see that the US price is significantly lower.

- Ray
Hoping the G8 V8 will start near $30K US....

Link added to original post, thanks to sandiegan.

I can get an Infiniti G35 sedan which is just as quick, if not quicker

Well, golly gee whizz, I have both a 2005 GTO and a 2006 G35X sedan sitting right outside my door. Love 'em both, but for entirely different reasons. Certainly for long road trips, the G35 gets the nod and is the wife's daily driver. It got her through two "wicked" bad snowstorms this year with ease, while many 4WD SUVs and Pick ups were catching road spray in the ditches this winter. The GTO slept soundly in the garage...waiting for Spring and its chance to be unleashed........

The ideal thing for us about the G35 is its RWD/AWD nature and handling. It corners almost effortlessly and is just fun to drive. The GTO speaks to my "inner hormone" in a way that the G35 never could. When the wife drives the GTO, always there are 20 year-old pimply youngsters vainly attemtping to run her (yes, both ways....hope springs eternal, eh?)

Pontiac needs the G8 and if they ever figure out a way to get RWD/AWD in it like the G35, it will be a strong contender to replace it.

I have driven all three. Tested the New G this week. No comparison between torque perhaps, but the new 306 HP V6 in the G35 sedan is smoking hot in the performance dept. I drove an auto and will gladly put it up against the new G8 based on what I've seen in it's performance numbers so far. Even if it falls behind by a tick or two, I wouldn't care a bit.

It's a completely different car yes, but for me, I can sway a bit to either side in terms of costs vs performance vs luxury. Add in AWD and the new G35 is one very nice ride, albeit a smaller version...but hey, I just need a sedan, not a big one.

Price wise, I grew up in the car biz and won't ever buy new....I'll rent it for 24-36mos. and the imports will like those mentioned will come in very reasonable.

Let's just hope the GT V8 will be no higher than the $32k-$33k mark.


For those of you comparing the G8 to Acura TL, Infiniti G35 and Lexus IS350. Have you driven these cars? Their V6 engines will not compare to G8's V8 performance, even though they have fine V6s. They will lack torque, big time, versus the G8 V8. Mostly, at least with these competitors, its apples vs oranges, though the pricing is somewhat similar (you'll find the IS350 at $36k to start).

relax guys. Its going to start @$25 000 US (they are selling them in oz for $35000aud.) $1 aud=75-80c US
You know I looked very closely at panel gaps and dashboard fit on the cars at our local motor show, because www.drive.com.au was saying that Holden paid alot of attention to them , they said that holden wants to get smaller panel gaps than BMW or less than 3 mm. Also they said they want the cars to be comparable to audi or bmw.
I thought the panel gaps where about the same as always, about 3mm but I thought the interior quality had increased. I liked the whole package, I thought its a vast improvement on previous models. Although its good I don't think the german should be worried.

check out the HSV models www.hsv.com.au
and checkout the statesman and maloo models.

I was looking @www.wardauto.com and they said that Holden(australia) is working on a new v12 for the upcoming cadilacs!!!!!

Its about time that Holden started designing new engines.

It'll be great if they put it in the GTS and grange.

The V12 turned out to be a rumor, Lutz and Holden have denied any such thing:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-denies-v12-cadillac-super-sedan-rumors.html

r
You know I looked very closely at panel gaps and dashboard fit on the cars at our local motor show, because www.drive.com.au was saying that Holden paid alot of attention to them , they said that holden wants to get smaller panel gaps than BMW or less than 3 mm. Also they said they want the cars to be comparable to audi or bmw.
I thought the panel gaps where about the same as always, about 3mm but I thought the interior quality had increased. I liked the whole package, I thought its a vast improvement on previous models. Although its good I don't think the german should be worried.

check out the HSV models www.hsv.com.au
and checkout the statesman and maloo models.

To me the panel gaps do look tighter on the VE. Smaller than BMW? Yes, if the benchmark is 1 or 3 series.

The V12 turned out to be a rumor, Lutz and Holden have denied any such thing:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-denies-v12-cadillac-super-sedan-rumors.html

Yeah, and they had denied the "Super 'Vette" was being worked on until just recently. The last I heard on the V12 was Lutz has some people working on it. Just whether or not we will ever be able to buy one is a question we won't get an answer to for a long time.