Two more days till I pick up my GT and Im already obsessing over getting rid of "torque managent" and tightening up the shifting...

I've searched on here, and have seen the ls1 links stating how vigorously GM will be looking for telltale signs of pcm tinkering in order to deny warranty claims. Others on here have called it bunk and rumor. Problem is that this is kinda like an "eternal drug test" - once the deed is done it is forever logged, and it seems very reasonable and possible that this is within GMs capability to check.

That said, can anyone offer anything to truly dispute this "rumor" that worries me, as I need to have at least one car under warranty...

What seems like a better solution is a piggyback module that intercepts and modifies the signal after the pcm but before it reaches the engine. Simply unplug for warranty work, with far less likelihood of telltale signs.

FWIW, I've already ruined two collector Saleens with extensive mods, motor swaps, roll cages, etc., illustrating my addiction.

Pls make big brother go away

If you are worried about them tracking it, buy a new ECM with a tune already on it or buy a new ECM and tune it yourself. Then if you have an issue just swap the tuned ECM for you stock one and you are good to go. I seriously doubt a tech is going to dig that deep for warranty issues. Now if you are going in for something that you screwed up because of running a tune then you should pay for it yourself. GM doesn't make a vehicle so you can do whatever you want to it and then try and trick them into paying for problems you brought on yourself.

Dodson - Did Vector consider your mods when tuning your new ECM? Do you feel it needs tweaking or are you going to leave it alone? Are you running a 91 or 93 octane tune?

I have one on order and will be doing similar mods as I get the parts. Would it be O.K. to contact you if I run into ECM installation issues?

Curious if it has to be returned to them for adjustments or if I can do them myself. Plan on being cautious.

Worry mostly about lean conditions as we had an issue with our carburated 502 boat engine where it ran lean in mid-range. Damaged a head. and a rear piston.

RRM

Agreed with the unfairness of going too aggressive and then expecting GM to fix it. I'd be pleased with just fixing the shifting and ensuring optimal timing and throttle crispness at all ranges.

As for the new pcm: forgive me as I'm new to GM engineering, but aren't there numerous interfaces within the vehicle that all "talk" each other and the pcm (mileage, times started, etc) that would all indicate that the car had not been using the factory pcm? If car reads 10k miles when original pcm comes out, and 20k when put back in, will that trigger a code? Or a code everytime the required security cut-off process is executed?

What about the controller module that is in the transmission. Any improvement to shifting speed there without impacting the factory pcm?

If it is simply "ya gotta pay if you wanna play", and I can't resist "fixing" some attributes on this car, fine I just want go in with eye's open.

Hi there,
I have a Dodge Ram 3500 with the Cummins 24v turbodiesel engine in it and everyone with these trucks mods them with PCM/ECM tuning...some of it's traceable and some of it isn't, but a very very very common theme among the tuners is "you are your own warrantee station" with regards to mods causing failures of OEM components. It's sparked many a thread on the forum.

However, for those of you not aware, Congress passed something called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act several years ago designed to protect consumers' rights (believe it or not) due to misuse of express or implied warrantees. In a nutshell, it is the obligation of the dealer (sic: GM) to prove that the modification you performed to your vehicle directly contributed to the failure of the component in question.

Obviously, the easy answer is "your PCM mod destroyed the tranny" and they won't cover it....so it will cost you some arguing, but there are many many cases of a mod having nothing to do with failure of a warranted item and the dealer ends up paying for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

Tim

Vector Motorsports has a ECM you can purchase. Everything does talk to each other but your mileage and other things you mentioned are not affected by the swap. You have to do a security relearn only once on the new ECM as well as a case relearn once. Simple as that. They also program the ECM with your VIN # so nothing looks fishy right off the bat.

As far as the TCM goes it is apparently at a place that is nearly impossible to get to. So a swap is not the best option. VMS is releasing a tune for the TCM very soon from what I understand that should help with the shift points and firmness of the shifts.

IMO, these are the best options for tuning and not having to worry about being harassed about minor warranty issues by your dealer. While most of know that they can't tell you they won't work on your radio because of a tune, etc. I have seen dealers pull this crap too many times to chance it.

Hi there,
I have a Dodge Ram 3500 with the Cummins 24v turbodiesel engine in it and everyone with these trucks mods them with PCM/ECM tuning...some of it's traceable and some of it isn't, but a very very very common theme among the tuners is "you are your own warrantee station" with regards to mods causing failures of OEM components. It's sparked many a thread on the forum.

However, for those of you not aware, Congress passed something called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act several years ago designed to protect consumers' rights (believe it or not) due to misuse of express or implied warrantees. In a nutshell, it is the obligation of the dealer (sic: GM) to prove that the modification you performed to your vehicle directly contributed to the failure of the component in question.

Obviously, the easy answer is "your PCM mod destroyed the tranny" and they won't cover it....so it will cost you some arguing, but there are many many cases of a mod having nothing to do with failure of a warranted item and the dealer ends up paying for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

Tim

That is all true but the problem is how many people have enough money to fight GM on something they say no to? The act was really put in not for people to do whatever they want but to keep the automakers from voiding warranties on things because you didn't use the OEM oil filter or didn't replace the muffler with their OEM muffler.

So when they say this broke because of your CAI and you tell them prove it. I seriously doubt to many techs are going to say okay spend a bunch of time and money to prove what they said is true. You will have to get lawyers involved before they are going to do anything.

If you are worried about them tracking it, buy a new ECM with a tune already on it or buy a new ECM and tune it yourself. Then if you have an issue just swap the tuned ECM for you stock one and you are good to go. I seriously doubt a tech is going to dig that deep for warranty issues. Now if you are going in for something that you screwed up because of running a tune then you should pay for it yourself. GM doesn't make a vehicle so you can do whatever you want to it and then try and trick them into paying for problems you brought on yourself.

+1. Always keep your original ECM on hand during the vehicles warranty. Even if your car is in for non related service they may routinely flash it with the latest SW and your expensive tune just went "poof".

Here's how MM works:
When you use stock components on a stock vehicle with approved fluids following the proper maintenance schedule with proof of said maintenance, then the burden of proof is on the manufacturer.

However, when you MODIFY the vehicle past the design intent of the manufacturer, any failure of components directly or indirectly related to the modifaction is YOUR responsibility to prove that the changes you made DIDN'T cause the failure.

+1. Always keep your original ECM on hand during the vehicles warranty. Even if your car is in for non related service they may routinely flash it with the latest SW and your expensive tune just went "poof".

IIRC, I thought VMS said that if they try and flash it, it will not work. I could be wrong on that but that's what I seem to remember.

VMS locks it out so the tech will only get an error code. I talked to VMS about this and it's really not much of an issue since GM rarely does TSB reflashes anymore.

IIRC, I thought VMS said that if they try and flash it, it will not work. I could be wrong on that but that's what I seem to remember.

Paid a visit to a friend who is a master tech at a local GM dealership, who will be performing the crank re-learn when the new ECM arrives. He showed me the procedure for identifying the foreign programs for warranty considerations. It is real. Not usually scanned for unless there is a driveline warranty issue. With that said, the suggestion to replace the ECM with a "Tuned" one is the way to go as the original will still contain all the original information for your trips to the dealer. They cannot scan for the number of times you unplug and replace your ECM or whether a foreign program was ever in control of the engine.

What was the price difference in purchasing the tuned pcm vs the sending for the flash? I know it was on sale at one point, 150? When is the new tcm/ecm combo due out? I'm about ready for another hit for the addiction.

TCM tune has been out for months...

Paid a visit to a friend who is a master tech at a local GM dealership, who will be performing the crank re-learn when the new ECM arrives. He showed me the procedure for identifying the foreign programs for warranty considerations. It is real. Not usually scanned for unless there is a driveline warranty issue. With that said, the suggestion to replace the ECM with a "Tuned" one is the way to go as the original will still contain all the original information for your trips to the dealer. They cannot scan for the number of times you unplug and replace your ECM or whether a foreign program was ever in control of the engine.

I saw a G8 at my neighbors. The guy who owned it was a friend of my neighbors. He is a GM employee who deals with technical advisory to the dealerships, so as best as I could tell, the perfect GM employee to ask this question. I brought up casually that I saw a lot of guys on the G8 board were tuning their engines and would this affect the warranty. He said just reset to stock when you visit the dealer...so you advice is right on.

My dealership knows that I've modified my car. Everyone there wants a ride in it. I don't think I'm going to have an issue with my Vector tuned pcm.

It's probably not going to be an issue BUT...unless and until something breaks in the driveline which, if GM did their homework, will not, you will not know. But, when it comes down to who pays, they will sink you like a three foot putt! Don't take the chance.

My dealership knows that I've modified my car. Everyone there wants a ride in it. I don't think I'm going to have an issue with my Vector tuned pcm.

I always found being straight up with my service Deptment has alway worked well.

You can get lucky using a good service dept. the real problem comes if there is a need to send a GM inspector out for something. He will generally have a say as to if something is covered or not. They look for everything before signing off because they get paid to find something.

FWIW, I had a GP GXP and had to have trans work done. It's a common problem with the GXPs but I still had to argue with the dealer about fixing it. Anyway, that's a different topic. I can, however, confirm that the Vector tune was not recognized. Keep in mind, I'm not giving advice here, but just a prior experience.

How many people on here are going for the HP Tuners suite. I used to have a tuning software when I owned my GTP (DHP) and enjoyed all the features on it. I think if you need some warranty work done to your car and you own the tuner, then just put the stock tune back on and when you get your car back then put your custom tune back on.

Two more days till I pick up my GT and Im already obsessing over getting rid of "torque managent" and tightening up the shifting...

I've searched on here, and have seen the ls1 links stating how vigorously GM will be looking for telltale signs of pcm tinkering in order to deny warranty claims. Others on here have called it bunk and rumor. Problem is that this is kinda like an "eternal drug test" - once the deed is done it is forever logged, and it seems very reasonable and possible that this is within GMs capability to check.

That said, can anyone offer anything to truly dispute this "rumor" that worries me, as I need to have at least one car under warranty...

What seems like a better solution is a piggyback module that intercepts and modifies the signal after the pcm but before it reaches the engine. Simply unplug for warranty work, with far less likelihood of telltale signs.

FWIW, I've already ruined two collector Saleens with extensive mods, motor swaps, roll cages, etc., illustrating my addiction.

Pls make big brother go away
This has been covered in great detail by Kirk at https://www.vectormotorsports.com/index.php?option=com_contact&Itemid=3 for months.

Vector Motorsports

24291 Sorrentino Ct.
Clinton Township
Michigan
USA
48035

Phone: 586-790-2970
Fax: 586-790-2098

We seem to be into our 4th-5th generation of the same questions that have been discussed since last December. I use the SEARCH function on the forum and I'm a cranky old man, & none too bright. So if that's too overwhelming....just deal with it.

How many people on here are going for the HP Tuners suite. I used to have a tuning software when I owned my GTP (DHP) and enjoyed all the features on it. I think if you need some warranty work done to your car and you own the tuner, then just put the stock tune back on and when you get your car back then put your custom tune back on.

i've been an HPT user for about 3 year i believe. i was really big into tuning 99-07 GM trucks. I've built up unlimited licenses for 02-07 trucks just by tuning on the side for fun :)

haven't really messed with my G8 tho :( as soon tho...

This has been covered in great detail by Kirk at https://www.vectormotorsports.com/index.php?option=com_contact&Itemid=3 for months.

Vector Motorsports

24291 Sorrentino Ct.
Clinton Township
Michigan
USA
48035

Phone: 586-790-2970
Fax: 586-790-2098

We seem to be into our 4th-5th generation of the same questions that have been discussed since last December. I use the SEARCH function on the forum and I'm a cranky old man, & none too bright. So if that's too overwhelming....just deal with it.

Dude he posted tht in april...

Yup LOL The good news is with our new Stealth tune you dont have to worry about anything anymore!

I can tell you from experience, if you mod your engine by adding cams, ecu tune you will void your warranty for that component.

Two ways around that thou.
1. Talk to the GM service rep and explain to him what you are doing, if he says it won't be a problem, get it in writing.
2. If your performance guy gives you that band wagon sales speech "everybody is doing doing it and won't be a problem" GET IT IN WRITING.

I sure would hate to lose that 5 year/100K mile warranty. Prices for parts are fairly inexpensive, and if you're not a DIY'er you're looking at some big labor cost. Especially if the tranny or rear go...not to mention the engine.

Yup LOL The good news is with our new Stealth tune you dont have to worry about anything anymore!

Tell me more about this "Stealth tune," unless you are just putting us on....

search the forums. its talked about in vectors thread.

I can tell you from experience, if you mod your engine by adding cams, ecu tune you will void your warranty for that component.

Two ways around that thou.
1. Talk to the GM service rep and explain to him what you are doing, if he says it won't be a problem, get it in writing.
2. If your performance guy gives you that band wagon sales speech "everybody is doing doing it and won't be a problem" GET IT IN WRITING.

I sure would hate to lose that 5 year/100K mile warranty. Prices for parts are fairly inexpensive, and if you're not a DIY'er you're looking at some big labor cost. Especially if the tranny or rear go...not to mention the engine.

You are not going to lose teh 5 yr 100,000 mile warranty regardless of what you do - even a magnacharger with somewhere around 450 hp. There is no such thing as any one thing 'voiding' your warranty (except for captured test fleet and salvage). Each failure is reviewed for cause. If excessive input power is determined to be a cause then denial of that particular claim may happen. GM, to my knowledge, does not then mark yoru car as being modified beyond all warranty and pull the entire rug out from under you. They could, and there have been reported cases of dealers refusing to perform normal warranty work (cupholders, etc) on modded vehicles; but that is hearsay and heresy. It is usually beyond the dealer's level where refusal and denial of claim take place. There is no penalty to teh dealer for submitting a questionable claim, fraudulent yes, questionable no. But they will warn you ahead of time if they have reservations. And generally bill you at time of repair.

um... I have voided the warranty on a 2500HD for having a bully dog on it.

search the forums. its talked about in vectors thread.

Sorry, I missed that one while on vacation. Great news from VMS!

Aaaaaaaaaand for those of you who missed it:
http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4684

Cool, if we won't lose the warranty, give us all certified signed letter saying we can mod the hell out of of engines and GM will not void the warranty.

Cool, if we won't lose the warranty, give us all certified signed letter saying we can mod the hell out of of engines and GM will not void the warranty.

Not a chance in hell. Not even GM will do that for GM parts (pay attention class)