This sucks. I was so hoping to get some times in the 13's or even mid 13's, but my best run of the day was 14.01 @ 101.55 w/ a 2.14 60' time. I'll post the slip soon enough. Kind of embaressing.

This was at Stanton, MI at the Mid Michigan Motorplex, during the Spring Bi-annual MGM Grand Prix Event. The track was fine. This wasn't my 1st time racing. I had about an 1/8 of a tank of gas, rear tires were at 35psi for some runs, then down to 30psi on others. I was running 89 octane, I didn't want to get a bad batch of 87 octane. (Could that have been the problem?)

I ran a total of 10 times 3 of them were 14.0x, 3 more were 14.1x, and the other 4 were 14.2x

The stock shifts are slow & timing seems to be pulled before the shifts, but how the heck did Car and Driver get a 13.7 and Edmunds a 13.6?

Maybe I have a factory slug?

I can't wait to see my stock dyno at the wheels to compare it with "Drob's" stock 305 rwhp.

Oh, and I even used the driver mod. "John H" who now has a PB of 13.18 in his 04 GTP drove it 3 times and hit the 3 same times of my variety. 14.0x, 14.1x, and 14.2x

Any suggestions besides modding (of course)?

I made runs with ESP off and on. What the hell???!! :banghead:

What were your stats from the track DA, etc?

What were your stats from the track DA, etc?


I don't have any stats like that. That's like a statictial altitude right? The track was in decent shape, VHT track byte was put down, it was about 62 degrees out, slight wind.


:banghead:

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=626

Your 14.0 wasn't that bad. Just remember that you aren't a professional driver, you are just an average Joe getting a thrill at the track.

Your times will get a lot better with more track time and when your car gets broken in a little more. I would not be surprised to see you posting about a 13.8 or so with more time at the track and learning how to launch.

You did not get a factory slug!

Hang in there, the G8 GT is a solid car.

It was strange...a couple of observations:

Car would not leave hard....once it was moving the shifts were a little soft and it moved on out, but it sure felt like something was holding it back at launch....

Couldn't foot brake past 1500 rpm
Couldn't get tires to spin on the launch really at all. Some vids I have of it show very little to no rear wheel spin....should be able to overpower the rear wheels without too much difficulty I would think....
Especially since I couldn't get decent traction in the GTP all day..but that's a whole other set of problems..
Not that you want to spin, but I figured I leave in the TA around 2200-2500 rpm from foot brake, so I figured give the heavier G8 a good jump at the line..but it just wouldn't go. One of those runs I just flat out nailed it on the green and I swear it took forever for the engine to go..(felt alot like Torque Management/ETC kicking in to modulate the launch)

As a side note, my GTP felt downright crude after piloting the G8 down the strip (Big Thanks to Mike for that!!!). At 100mph quiet, controlled, smooth as glass...

BTW: Stanton is about 900ft above sealevel, but I don't know the DA for yesterday....60-75F, average humdity.

dont worry,you will launch it better and better.I used to suck at launching my gtp cause i didnt race much from a start-most cars had turbos and didnt want to race my supercharger so we would go from a roll.I always lost from a stop,but from a roll(same car) i would beat,so my track times were mid 14's,when i am beating low 14 cars ???

This 1 trip to the track in stock form is good enough for me. The next time back will definitely be with a tune & cai, and hopefully some type of exhaust work (H pipe + Magnaflows).

This is probably my 5th time to a drag strip, and each time I make at least 10 passes, sometimes 15, so I'm not totally green.

Oh well, time for mods, I got my baseline..... :cartman:

Corrected to standard conditions (and applying some wild ass guesses for numbers) your 14.0 at 101.5 is corrected to 13.84 at 100.6.

The magazines may apply the same corrections to the times they report or they may not - it depends on the magazine.

Seems your runs are right in line.

Corrected to standard conditions (and applying some wild ass guesses for numbers) your 14.0 at 101.5 is corrected to 13.84 at 100.6.

The magazines may apply the same corrections to the times they report or they may not - it depends on the magazine.

Seems your runs are right in line.

That's what I was fixing to touch base on. Remember, your at a higher altitude. :us_flag: A car running a flat 13.00 here in TX will be running slower in MI

Relax, you don't have a dud :burnout:

This is probably my 5th time to a drag strip, and each time I make at least 10 passes, sometimes 15, so I'm not totally green.



15 is a lot of passes for just a couple of hours. Your car may be suffering from heat soak. Fact is that the GTO didn't like to run past about 175 degrees, anything hotter was just a waste of time and effort. The G8 may be the same way.

After I ran my GTO a few times at the track and learned about heat soak, I would make 1 run, let the car rest for 30 minutes, then run again..........and so forth. I did not run her in the quarter past 180 degrees.

Did you use the full auto setting, sport shift, or manumatic?

The rags said sport was quickest, with manumatic slowest

Fuhgetaboutit. Like you said...you got your stock runs in. Now it's time to start modding and get dirty! Sound to me like your first mod needs to be a computer update. :) Get that ECM and TCM where it's supposed to be. You'll be in good shape.

Don't feel bad, for MI that's probably in line. I went through this with my TBSS. I went to the track Sat. and the air wasn't that great - 80 and pretty humid with the threat of rain. My car with 2.0x 60ft. went a 13.60@104-105mph...that's with a tune. That was launching at the 1,500rpm max. before tire spin. There were a couple people I talked to that weren't running very good either - my buddy was off by a good 3 tenths and another poor guy with a GTO that could only get a 13.9x with a tune and exhaust. He said it went a 13.5 stock so he was really bummed.

As far as improvement, maybe wait till' fall with cooler temps and a broken in engine. I really don't see where practice is going to get you in this car, load the motor to 1,500 rpm, point and shoot. There really isn't much else to do...

Old Goat: Thanks for the information. Yep, I know about engine heat soak. I do try to give the engine time to cool down.


Need 4 Speed: 1 of my 14.2x times was done in regular drive mode, all the rest were run in sport mode.


Drob 8: You said it the best. I got my baseline stock run, no go mod! I'm pretty sure a Vector Motorsports Performance 91/93 octane tune is what I'm getting + a VMS CAI (hopefully) :yumyum:

Torque Management is alive and kicking. THere was a time when weight, power and gearing could determine 1/4 mile times. But Torque Management changes all those figures. It determines when Max Power is applied and how.

From the start of the race you were in Abuse Mode as you learned with limited revs. It kicked in again as you launched holding back timing advance until you pass 1600 rpm. Then 700-500 RPM before shift, timing advance is pulled again in substantial amounts, the shift is completed, then another sluggish 500 rpm is reved followed by positive timing advanced until you get near the next shift where timing is pulled again.

Your tune *may* fix this. Before GM added the TCM all Torque Management could be removed from the ECM. I just don't know if you can tell the current ECM's to ignore Torque Management info from the TCM. I will soon though.

Torque Management is alive and kicking.

That was my theory...

I have now figured the DA about 1800 ft, guessing on the conditions and what Sunday's weather was like....

I tried one run in manumatic mode..hard to do because there's no redline (literally) so hard to judge when to shift.

There is a lot of improvement in there. A 2.14 60ft is pretty bad. I would think you should be able to get a 1.8 at least with the stock tires. You might have to keep experimenting with your rear tire pressures to find the right spot

Mine would only do 2.0x everytime. It was chirping the tires a bit, but nothing bad. If anything I think a little tire spin might help these out vs. dragging the engine down. I really doubt a stock G8 would be able to get into the 1.8 range, but who knows.

There is a lot of improvement in there. A 2.14 60ft is pretty bad. I would think you should be able to get a 1.8 at least with the stock tires. You might have to keep experimenting with your rear tire pressures to find the right spot

hey you should be happy you could get that many runs in. out here in socal we got 1 track and due to how limited it is opened you might be lucky if you could get 4 runs in.

Mike P, Why aren't you running at least 91 octane in it instead of 89????

No way you are going to get a 1.8 60' with a stock car/tires/trans..... Your mph was spot on with mine. My best run was 13.81 @ 101 with sport mode, my other 2 runs were 13.84 @ 101.2 and 13.88 but that was without sport mode. I forgot to switch back. Shame this car lags everywhere but thats torque management and drivebywire on the TB.

It's all in your launch. If you can figure out how to get the launch down to a 2.0 you'll be right around a 13.8 no problem. With the stock tires on my GTO, I found they worked best at 22-25psi in the rears when at the strip. Granted that's on 17" tires that are totally different from yours, but don't be afraid to go well under 30psi.

BTW, 14 seconds isn't a bad time at all, it took me two trips to the strip before I cracked into the 13s, and it wasn't until I had made over 50 passes that I managed to hit the 12s. Of course, I'm a manual so it's a little trickier, but don't feel bad for your first time at the strip with the car, especially with an 1800' DA.

Maybe you got the G8 Automobile Mag was testing. They recorded 5.8 0-60 when every other mag got Pontiac's 5.3 0-60. I thin BMW paid them to load the G8's trunk with concrete.

It's all in your launch. If you can figure out how to get the launch down to a 2.0 you'll be right around a 13.8 no problem. With the stock tires on my GTO, I found they worked best at 22-25psi in the rears when at the strip. Granted that's on 17" tires that are totally different from yours, but don't be afraid to go well under 30psi.

BTW, 14 seconds isn't a bad time at all, it took me two trips to the strip before I cracked into the 13s, and it wasn't until I had made over 50 passes that I managed to hit the 12s. Of course, I'm a manual so it's a little trickier, but don't feel bad for your first time at the strip with the car, especially with an 1800' DA.


Thanks for the advice, the next time I'm at the track I'll try a lower rear tire psi. What do you keep your GTO front tires at?

Thanks for the advice, the next time I'm at the track I'll try a lower rear tire psi. What do you keep your GTO front tires at?

I only ran twice with stock rear tires, however due to keep the rolling resistance low, I kept around 36-40 psi in the fronts.

Were you spinning that bad? Stanton usually hooks pretty good...

Thanks for the advice, the next time I'm at the track I'll try a lower rear tire psi. What do you keep your GTO front tires at?

Were you spinning that bad? Stanton usually hooks pretty good...
No he wasn't spinning..maybe just a little, but it WOULDN'T spin it was almost like TC was coming on.

No he wasn't spinning..maybe just a little, but it WOULDN'T spin it was almost like TC was coming on.

I don't understand this. You're saying if you hold the brake, floor the gas, and then let off of the brake it won't spin the tires? How do you do a burnout then?

15 is a lot of passes for just a couple of hours. Your car may be suffering from heat soak. Fact is that the GTO didn't like to run past about 175 degrees, anything hotter was just a waste of time and effort. The G8 may be the same way.

After I ran my GTO a few times at the track and learned about heat soak, I would make 1 run, let the car rest for 30 minutes, then run again..........and so forth. I did not run her in the quarter past 180 degrees. I hav 45 pass's with my g8 and heat soak is a bitch. BTW don't brake stall past 1000 rpm when you get to the 2nd yellow roll in to the throttle then lift on the brake by 1300 in one sweeping motion . Air the stock tires to 24 psi and you should do 2.00 60ft .

I hav 45 pass's with my g8 and heat soak is a bitch. BTW don't brake stall past 1000 rpm when you get to the 2nd yellow roll in to the throttle then lift on the brake by 1300 in one sweeping motion . Air the stock tires to 24 psi and you should do 2.00 60ft .

Thanks, I will try that!

I hav 45 pass's with my g8 and heat soak is a bitch. BTW don't brake stall past 1000 rpm when you get to the 2nd yellow roll in to the throttle then lift on the brake by 1300 in one sweeping motion . Air the stock tires to 24 psi and you should do 2.00 60ft .

So what's YOUR best time? :D

Mike P, Why aren't you running at least 91 octane in it instead of 89????

That's what I'd like to know. 14.0 is not bad, but why run 89 octane and then complain about performance? The engine has 10.2 compression, surely the PCM can allow more timing advance with better fuel. You may have to run the good stuff for a tank before going to the track so that the PCM can "learn" that you've put the good stuff in and allow more advance.

I run nothing but 93 in my lowly Bonneville (it does have 10.5 compression and knock sensors to adjust for different octane fuels). Remember that higher compression engines may also achieve better mileage with higher octane fuel, which can offset some of the additional cost.

ou're saying if you hold the brake, floor the gas, and then let off of the brake it won't spin the tires? How do you do a burnout then?

Yes that's what I am saying,it was like traction control was kicking on or something and No burnout street tires...

That's what I'd like to know. 14.0 is not bad, but why run 89 octane and then complain about performance? The engine has 10.2 compression, surely the PCM can allow more timing advance with better fuel. You may have to run the good stuff for a tank before going to the track so that the PCM can "learn" that you've put the good stuff in and allow more advance.

I run nothing but 93 in my lowly Bonneville (it does have 10.5 compression and knock sensors to adjust for different octane fuels). Remember that higher compression engines may also achieve better mileage with higher octane fuel, which can offset some of the additional cost.

I thought that I read that the car is mapped for 87 octane, and by running 91/93 octane without a tune, would possible loose hpl

Mike,
Get a Dashhawk from Vector. Check you IAT, I'm sure you're having problems with heat soak. It showed up big time on my dyno runs.

From what Mike and John have posted it leads me to a couple of possible or combined issues.

If the car acts the same whether TC is on or off, then the off button is not working. Default is ON, so maybe a fuse??

89 octane is not premium, I consider it to be my regular. 87 is simply crap. Most published tests are on 93 or better. Just came back from FL where they have stations that include zero fuel system cleaner additive in th efuel (unlike majors like Shell, BP) and you have to choose to have it injected as you fill. Where do they come up with this?

Assume you have over 500 miles proper break-in or you wouldn't be at the track.

Maybe your tranny is worse than most that are subject to the Service Update reflash. Do nothing else but the factory TCM update and go back to the track.

This sucks. I just called the Pontiac Dealer in Midland, MI and they don't have service bulliten update for the G8 GT.

I thought GM updates all their dealer service depts. at the same time?

Went to San Antonio Raceway last night and had pretty much the same results. Best pass out of 5 listed below, after an almost 2 hour cooldown. Ran a hot pass right after I went thru tech (I didn't have a helmet and they said I had to...) that netted a 14.46. Only spun on launch with one pass and that was with it in manual mode for spits and giggles. The announcer didn't know what kinda car it was for my first two passes, I had a good laugh at that. Apparently these aren't very common down in S.A.


My 2nd pass:
weight w/ driver = 4150 lbs
stalled to 1500ish and left full throttle
reaction - .9780 <<< :o
60ft - 2.1493
330ft - 6.0066
1/8 et - 9.1386
1/8 mph - 78.81
1000 et - 11.8013
1/4 et - 14.0303
1/4 mph - 101.10

I was at the top of third thru the lights. Listed reaction as it's not quite the same as my old 5.0, pulled .5xx lights all day in it... Just need a lil practice, that's all :gears:

FWIW I got to watch a Murrillo Motorsports car running, too. A teal, scary fast, 94-95 mustang. Mike was there, too, man I miss my 5.0, but this G8 is making me forget, slowly but surely...

Nice to meet you on Friday night there H34D. Your car is beautiful and give it some time and your times will improve.
Tate

These numbers are simply drivers being introduced to new cars. In time of going back to the track you will learn your car and it's limits to reach its best 1/4. If I can think back the first time at the track with my car versus the third time the 1/4 time decreased by about .3 seconds. There's lots of stuff to look at to get a perfect launch and every vehicle is diff.

U adjust rear tire press. which should be about 23 psi and about 42 psi up front. After doing this then u could POWERBRAKE (~1500 rpm)technique to your advantage, using it without adjusting tire psi will just do a burnout.

Always have any traction,esp,a/c turned off

U don't have slicks so stay out of the waterbox, this will just get water into the tread, do a good short burnout just to get debris off the tire.

Try to get there with about 1/4 tank gas or less, more is just extra weight. Remove the spare tire if u want less weight also.

Try to punch the gas pedal right when the second amber light goes out.

Afterwards drive slow, Turn on your defroster and high speed fan to help cool the engine and wait about 30 min till the next race so ther's no heat soak. U can buy a small bag of ice and place it over the engine cover to help.

repeat for better results.

My first time to the track with my 06 GTO I couldnt manage any better then 14.0. About 4 months later (racing a couple of times a month) my driver mod got better and I was down to a 13.4. A year later with very monor mods I ran a 12.9. Get some seat time, lower your tire pressures and keep at it. You'll improve

My first time to the track with my 06 GTO I couldnt manage any better then 14.0. About 4 months later (racing a couple of times a month) my driver mod got better and I was down to a 13.4. A year later with very monor mods I ran a 12.9. Get some seat time, lower your tire pressures and keep at it. You'll improve


Sounds good. The next time I go back to the track I'll be armed with at least a CAI & a tune. And possibly a Magnaflow cat back system.


...

You guys seem to be on the money.. a few factors that you hit the nail on the head.. these things will pull timing with heat soak. Pretty much anything over 40degree IAT and timing is pulled.

Torque Management unless tweaked in the tune will also hold performance back. You may notice on dyno runs in stock form that the result each run back to back gets lower and lower..

There are guys here in Aust now running into the high 11's with just bolt on mods...pretty crazy considering these cars weigh around 1800kilos.. Anything under a 2.0 60ft time in the VE or G8 is pretty good with stock rubber. But from what I have read in this thread with the MPH the times are about right.

My mates Auto with full exhaust OTR and tune ran a 13.1 @ 109MPH..

Good luck with your future runs..

Cheers
Curt.

You guys seem to be on the money.. a few factors that you hit the nail on the head.. these things will pull timing with heat soak. Pretty much anything over 40degree IAT and timing is pulled.

Torque Management unless tweaked in the tune will also hold performance back. You may notice on dyno runs in stock form that the result each run back to back gets lower and lower..

There are guys here in Aust now running into the high 11's with just bolt on mods...pretty crazy considering these cars weigh around 1800kilos.. Anything under a 2.0 60ft time in the VE or G8 is pretty good with stock rubber. But from what I have read in this thread with the MPH the times are about right.

My mates Auto with full exhaust OTR and tune ran a 13.1 @ 109MPH..

Good luck with your future runs..

Cheers
Curt.


Thanks for the post. With a tune, cai, & Magnaflow exhuast cat back system, I'd be a happy camper if I could run a 13.1, if not then headers. (I'm sure I'll get headers eventually either way.)

Thanks again Curt

Not only could you run a 13.1, but you have the capacity to get into the 12s with a good tune, exhaust and OTRCAI. The torque management really sucks the life out of the autos and all of this can be manipulated and improved upon.

Good luck with it.

Cheers,

Macca

So what's YOUR best time? :D stock 13.49 with a 1.96 60ft at 104mph .

Tuned 13.10 @ 107 mph

DR + 100 shot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ge_zuzxink

stock 13.49 with a 1.96 60ft at 104mph .

Tuned 13.10 @ 107 mph

DR + 100 shot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ge_zuzxink

You were the driver for Tune Time? Also, I thought their 13.49 run was with a CAI installed.

As for the Australian versions, doesn't the SSV have the LS2? And when he said it pulls timing at 40*, obviously that was Celsius, not Farenheit, just in case anyone was wondering :)

Yes that's what I am saying,it was like traction control was kicking on or something and No burnout street tires...

I just remembered that some 2006 GTOs had the exact same symptoms. Apparently there was a switch behind the brake pedal that would cut power while you were on the brake. Some GTOs had problems, some didn't, but if you were one of the ones with the problem you wouldn't be able to spin the tires while on the brake. Last I heard, GM said it was a problem with the BCM (braking control module). A quick fix was to zip-tie the switch down so it thought the brake was always off, but I think this affected your ABS or something, so might only want to do it at the track.

...............................As for the Australian versions, doesn't the SSV have the LS2? And when he said it pulls timing at 40*, obviously that was Celsius, not Farenheit, just in case anyone was wondering :)

No, the Australian Commodores have the L98, but without DOD at this point in time. Plenty of performance and testing threads can be found at our LS1 site - ls1.com.au

Cheers

My first time to the track with my 06 GTO I couldnt manage any better then 14.0. About 4 months later (racing a couple of times a month) my driver mod got better and I was down to a 13.4. A year later with very monor mods I ran a 12.9. Get some seat time, lower your tire pressures and keep at it. You'll improve

Mike, Saleen & I have had the same experiences. My first time at the track with my GTO (about 4 months after getting it), I went to Beech Bend Raceway (Bowling Green, KY). It was warm & muggy (high humidity). I couldn't get under 14 seconds that night. I thought I had a slug. Other people thought I had a slug. With no mods, I went to a different track (in AL) the next year. With over 15K miles & no tune, I went 13.2. I've gotten it down to 13.02 during that year. I'm planning to get a tune & hope to be well into the 12's. Just give it time.

With a stick, I think it takes a bit of practice to get used to a vehicle...w/ an auto, I don't see you picking that much up from driving technique.

With a stick, I think it takes a bit of practice to get used to a vehicle...w/ an auto, I don't see you picking that much up from driving technique.

It's all in the launch ;)

I guess I just don't understand what else to try. My car did 2.0x everytime. Basically I'd bring it up to stall rpm and launch. The track wasn't prepped that great, but it wasn't breaking loose very much either. My car was running warm though, I would make 4 back to back passes, then let it cool for 1/2 hr or so (all 13.6x times - so it didn't seem to hurt it that bad).

I'm used to racing manual transmissions, that I have down, but the auto just doesn't seem to have as many variables to me (especially with relatively low HP/ umph out of the hole)....

It's all in the launch ;)

I guess I just don't understand what else to try. My car did 2.0x everytime. Basically I'd bring it up to stall rpm and launch. The track wasn't prepped that great, but it wasn't breaking loose very much either. My car was running warm though, I would make 4 back to back passes, then let it cool for 1/2 hr or so (all 13.6x times - so it didn't seem to hurt it that bad).

I'm used to racing manual transmissions, that I have down, but the auto just doesn't seem to have as many variables to me (especially with relatively low HP/ umph out of the hole)....

I didn't say YOU would pick up that much time! Sounds like you've already got it down. All I know is a lot of GTO owners for some reason couldn't figure out for the life of them how to launch their cars, even with an auto. My guess is the G8 is much easier to launch since even the magazines are getting really good times from them.

Remove the spare tire if u want less weight also.

We have a spare tire? :secret:

It's all in your launch. If you can figure out how to get the launch down to a 2.0 you'll be right around a 13.8 no problem. With the stock tires on my GTO, I found they worked best at 22-25psi in the rears when at the strip. Granted that's on 17" tires that are totally different from yours, but don't be afraid to go well under 30psi.

BTW, 14 seconds isn't a bad time at all, it took me two trips to the strip before I cracked into the 13s, and it wasn't until I had made over 50 passes that I managed to hit the 12s. Of course, I'm a manual so it's a little trickier, but don't feel bad for your first time at the strip with the car, especially with an 1800' DA.

first.

run race gas. 1/4 tank. period.
short line up the staging light.
stay out of the waterbox with street tires.
pull your spare and jacks, owners manual, gatoraide lawn chairs etc. out of the trunk.
roll up the windows turn off the a/c and radio. run the car completely cold.(2 HOURS OFF!)
I run drag radials at 18lbs of pressure.....so try 23lbs approx.
A4s run from 3.
turn off t/c. do NOT preload the suspension....go from idle.
13.9 for sure or better. good luck. It's a blast to see the times start falling as you figure it out.:boink:

I got all that down, but not loading the suspension huh? I was doing it every time (1,500 or so stall)...next time I'll try from idle to see what happens.

first.

run race gas. 1/4 tank. period.
short line up the staging light.
stay out of the waterbox with street tires.
pull your spare and jacks, owners manual, gatoraide lawn chairs etc. out of the trunk.
roll up the windows turn off the a/c and radio. run the car completely cold.(2 HOURS OFF!)
I run drag radials at 18lbs of pressure.....so try 23lbs approx.
A4s run from 3.
turn off t/c. do NOT preload the suspension....go from idle.
13.9 for sure or better. good luck. It's a blast to see the times start falling as you figure it out.:boink:

first.

run race gas. 1/4 tank. period.


Why on earth would you run race gas in a car thats tuned for 87/89?!1?!? the only thing thats going to do is slow people down... Run the LOWEST octane you can without knock.

Why on earth would you run race gas in a car thats tuned for 87/89?!1?!? the only thing thats going to do is slow people down... Run the LOWEST octane you can without knock.

Most race gas is leaded as well... Its an excellent way of burning out all 4 O2 sensors and junking your cats. But hey, to each his own.

unleaded race gas is sold at the pumps in nevada and some places in cali...

"Bumbly Beast" Gary....explained it like this.....do you want to drive a nail starting with the hammer on the head...or a few inches above it?
when the t/c is preloaded...you get NO "WHACK!"
also line up short. barely make the light come on....now you get a mini head start on the clock....both highly valueble in trimming the 14 into 13's.

as far as the race gas goes...it's what I do....the gto has two tunes in the pcm.....87 and 91....if the knock sensors pick up any clatter they default tune to the 87...robbing power....and I don't think I need to tell you guys about heat soak do I?

I'll try it off idle, but I've never heard that producing better results (the whack is from the extra rpm leaving off the tc).

I went as shallow as possible on the lights, so there's nothing left there.


unleaded race gas is sold at the pumps in nevada and some places in cali...

"Bumbly Beast" Gary....explained it like this.....do you want to drive a nail starting with the hammer on the head...or a few inches above it?
when the t/c is preloaded...you get NO "WHACK!"
also line up short. barely make the light come on....now you get a mini head start on the clock....both highly valueble in trimming the 14 into 13's.

as far as the race gas goes...it's what I do....the gto has two tunes in the pcm.....87 and 91....if the knock sensors pick up any clatter they default tune to the 87...robbing power....and I don't think I need to tell you guys about heat soak do I?

as far as the race gas goes...it's what I do....the gto has two tunes in the pcm.....87 and 91....if the knock sensors pick up any clatter they default tune to the 87...robbing power....and I don't think I need to tell you guys about heat soak do I?

The GTO(and nearly every other GM product) has two spark maps, good fuel spark (aka high octane) and bad fuel spark (aka low octane). Stock the GTO good fuel spark table is about ~91 on the G8 its 89ish octane or so and the bad is about 84 or so. If a certain amount of knock is detected yes it will drop into the low octane table (bad fuel spark) but running race gas in a car not tuned for it not only wastes money but slows it down as well. You want to burn the lowest octane you can without knock, in the G8 stock 91 should be more than plenty :)

96

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u140/midiman1962/Haddad%20Dyno%202-17-08/dynob2-17-081a.jpg



91
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u140/midiman1962/Goat%20run%202007/DYNO/600hp.jpg

it's all i got to go by....

heres the heat soak chart

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u140/midiman1962/Haddad%20Dyno%202-17-08/dyno2-17-08.jpg

And you have a blown car on two different types dynos on different days with different conditions not exactly an A-B comparison or even remotely scientific. You would need to repeat that test on the same day same dyno with different fuel to make heads or tails of it but if 96 octane picks you up any power WITHOUT tuning for it I'd say you need to talk to your tuner :)

I would not buy the BS from Edmunds, and I sure would not believe most mags, having worked for some of them. You ran about what a 4100+ lb car with a 2.92 rear should run with 361 bhp and 385 tq, it's that simple. Do the math. These mags often use DR's oer some other super sticky tire.

I would not buy the BS from Edmunds, and I sure would not believe most mags, having worked for some of them. You ran about what a 4100+ lb car and a 2.92 should run with 361 bhp and 385 tq, it's that simple. Do the math. These mags often use DR's oer some other super sticky tire. The car will run a half a sec quicker (mid 13's and 104 or so mph) in cooler dense air areas (ATCO, Etown, etc) and at lower alt, but those areas are not condusive to the rest of us in the most of the rest of the country.

We need to give the Stig ago in our car :D

I would not buy the BS from Edmunds, and I sure would not believe most mags, having worked for some of them. You ran about what a 4100+ lb car and a 2.92 should run with 361 bhp and 385 tq, it's that simple. Do the math. These mags often use DR's oer some other super sticky tire. The car will run a half a sec quicker (mid 13's and 104 or so mph) in cooler dense air areas (ATCO, Etown, etc) and at lower alt, but those areas are not condusive to the rest of us in the most of the rest of the country.

I forgot what rear gear ratio the G8s have, but a rear swap when they start being sold will help get into the 12s.

This sucks. I was so hoping to get some times in the 13's or even mid 13's, but my best run of the day was 14.01 @ 101.55 w/ a 2.14 60' time. I'll post the slip soon enough. Kind of embaressing.

This was at Stanton, MI at the Mid Michigan Motorplex, during the Spring Bi-annual MGM Grand Prix Event. The track was fine. This wasn't my 1st time racing. I had about an 1/8 of a tank of gas, rear tires were at 35psi for some runs, then down to 30psi on others. I was running 89 octane, I didn't want to get a bad batch of 87 octane. (Could that have been the problem?)

I ran a total of 10 times 3 of them were 14.0x, 3 more were 14.1x, and the other 4 were 14.2x

The stock shifts are slow & timing seems to be pulled before the shifts, but how the heck did Car and Driver get a 13.7 and Edmunds a 13.6?

Maybe I have a factory slug?

I can't wait to see my stock dyno at the wheels to compare it with "Drob's" stock 305 rwhp.

Oh, and I even used the driver mod. "John H" who now has a PB of 13.18 in his 04 GTP drove it 3 times and hit the 3 same times of my variety. 14.0x, 14.1x, and 14.2x

Any suggestions besides modding (of course)?

I made runs with ESP off and on. What the hell???!! :banghead:

I know Im late coming in here, but your weather conditions, by the way, were:

11 AM
62.6* / 29.81 baro / 59% humidity / 4.6 mph N winds

1 PM
69.8* / 29.79 baro / 43% humidity / 9.2 mph NE winds

3 PM
71.6* / 29.77 baro / 41% humidity / 8.1 mph NE winds

6 PM
71.6* / 29.76 baro / 43% humidity / 12.7 mph ENE winds


Im not sure of the orientation of the track, those winds could have helped or hurt, but it coupled with 940ft above sea level, your HP equaled to 98.5%, less power than SAE standards at 11 AM. By 6 PM, your power was at 97.4%, even lower! That is some bad air. When people post their great times/mph's, they are usually at 105-107% of SAE or EVEN HIGHER.

Your times/mph's look great IMO. Dont let other peoples times discourage you, every track is different. Its like comparing uncorrected dyno numbers. Some tracks have slight downhills, others have slight up hills that when compared to each other doubles the difference in tilt.

Went to San Antonio Raceway last night and had pretty much the same results. Best pass out of 5 listed below, after an almost 2 hour cooldown. Ran a hot pass right after I went thru tech (I didn't have a helmet and they said I had to...) that netted a 14.46. Only spun on launch with one pass and that was with it in manual mode for spits and giggles. The announcer didn't know what kinda car it was for my first two passes, I had a good laugh at that. Apparently these aren't very common down in S.A.


My 2nd pass:
weight w/ driver = 4150 lbs
stalled to 1500ish and left full throttle
reaction - .9780 <<< :o
60ft - 2.1493
330ft - 6.0066
1/8 et - 9.1386
1/8 mph - 78.81
1000 et - 11.8013
1/4 et - 14.0303
1/4 mph - 101.10

I was at the top of third thru the lights. Listed reaction as it's not quite the same as my old 5.0, pulled .5xx lights all day in it... Just need a lil practice, that's all :gears:

FWIW I got to watch a Murrillo Motorsports car running, too. A teal, scary fast, 94-95 mustang. Mike was there, too, man I miss my 5.0, but this G8 is making me forget, slowly but surely...

Your weather, on the otherhand, was worse.

6 PM
80.6* / 29.84 baro / 70% humidity / 10.4 mph SE winds

8 PM
77.0* / 29.84 baro / 78% humidity / 8.1 mph SE winds

11 PM
72.0* / 29.94 baro / 88% humidity / 8.1 mph SE winds

The track, 615 ft above sea level, faces NE meaning you guys faced that headwind. Not sure if you faced it on your particular run, but it seems to be fairly constant. Your hp ranged from 96.5% - 96.9% - 98%. All very low, making it much too difficult to compare to others, other than the OP, who ran in similar type (air density) conditions.

I ran my G8 at O'reilly Raceway Park in Indianapolis.
My low was 14.149 with a R/T .065
My best was
R/T .768
60' 2.172
330 6.053
1/8 9.192
MPH 78.82
1000 11.854
1/4 14.079
MPH 100.15
Temp was 78 degrees
Barom was 30.02
RH was 40 percent
Elevation 950 ft'
IAT was 122 degrees during this run

I ran my G8 at O'reilly Raceway Park in Indianapolis.
My low was 14.149 with a R/T .065
My best was
R/T .768
60' 2.172
330 6.053
1/8 9.192
MPH 78.82
1000 11.854
1/4 14.079
MPH 100.15
Temp was 78 degrees
Barom was 30.02
RH was 40 percent
Elevation 950 ft'
IAT was 122 degrees during this run

Information I found on the net says the track is ~850 ft above sea level. That, coupled with the weather, using online calculators readily available show horsepower being at 97.9%.

122 IAT's are pretty high for an NA vehicle. Mine are usually in the 130 range at the end of a run (~115-120mph) with the HEaton supercharger.

I know Im late coming in here, but your weather conditions, by the way, were:

11 AM
62.6* / 29.81 baro / 59% humidity / 4.6 mph N winds

1 PM
69.8* / 29.79 baro / 43% humidity / 9.2 mph NE winds

3 PM
71.6* / 29.77 baro / 41% humidity / 8.1 mph NE winds

6 PM
71.6* / 29.76 baro / 43% humidity / 12.7 mph ENE winds


Im not sure of the orientation of the track, those winds could have helped or hurt, but it coupled with 940ft above sea level, your HP equaled to 98.5%, less power than SAE standards at 11 AM. By 6 PM, your power was at 97.4%, even lower! That is some bad air. When people post their great times/mph's, they are usually at 105-107% of SAE or EVEN HIGHER.

Your times/mph's look great IMO. Dont let other peoples times discourage you, every track is different. Its like comparing uncorrected dyno numbers. Some tracks have slight downhills, others have slight up hills that when compared to each other doubles the difference in tilt.


Thanks for the info. I didn't realize all that. It kind of makes me feel better!

Thanks agian...........

first.

run race gas. 1/4 tank. period.
short line up the staging light.
stay out of the waterbox with street tires.
pull your spare and jacks, owners manual, gatoraide lawn chairs etc. out of the trunk.
roll up the windows turn off the a/c and radio. run the car completely cold.(2 HOURS OFF!)
I run drag radials at 18lbs of pressure.....so try 23lbs approx.
A4s run from 3.
turn off t/c. do NOT preload the suspension....go from idle.
13.9 for sure or better. good luck. It's a blast to see the times start falling as you figure it out.:boink:

i agree with almost everything you say except for

the race gas- on a bone stock car, theres no point to doing it. just not gonna help, i know from experience. and running the car completley cold. that is just stupid IMO. yes let the car cool off, but i would never run my car wide open if the temp gage is still in at the lowest point. never want to beat on a cold engine. at least let the car warm up a tad. i would never just jump in my car thats been off for two hours, pull right up to the starting line and beat the hell out of it. the oil hasnt had time to get circulated through the engine.

but 100% on just flashing the converter of idle. i tried so many different launch techniques with my car, and after talking to guys who have 12 and 11 second auto street cars they all told me, just floor it off idle and you should see the best results. which i did.

oh and whoever said 1.8 60' on street tires, stock car, stock trans :bs:

We had very, very similar times.

i agree with almost everything you say except for

the race gas- on a bone stock car, theres no point to doing it. just not gonna help, i know from experience. and running the car completley cold. that is just stupid IMO. yes let the car cool off, but i would never run my car wide open if the temp gage is still in at the lowest point. never want to beat on a cold engine. at least let the car warm up a tad. i would never just jump in my car thats been off for two hours, pull right up to the starting line and beat the hell out of it. the oil hasnt had time to get circulated through the engine.

but 100% on just flashing the converter off idle. i tried so many different launch techniques with my car, and after talking to guys who have 12 and 11 second auto street cars they all told me, just floor it off idle and you should see the best results. which i did.

I understand your concern about the "cold run".... it's relatively cold...you always have to run a little to get through the line up...so I consider that adequite warming.:judge:

I have an 11 second street car.:gears::gears:



:stickpoke:

There is a lot of improvement in there. A 2.14 60ft is pretty bad. I would think you should be able to get a 1.8 at least with the stock tires. You might have to keep experimenting with your rear tire pressures to find the right spot

For a 2 ton car stock on street tires...I dont know of any make or model car apples to apples that can achieve this...
I was out at the track in cali...and out "'60ed" low 12 second cars all night long...
the only person to hit a 1.7 was a supercharged vette making over 500 hp to the rear with monster tires in the back....
any G8 stock hitting a 2.0 -2.1 60' ft is amazing....
The only car close to mine power wise was a SRT8 charger (every other car was heavily modded or supercharged I ran against) he had a 2.3 60ft mine was 2.1 ( All other cars I raced where low 12 cars that I had pulled for the first 60 to 300 ft on.)

oh and whoever said 1.8 60' on street tires, stock car, stock trans :bs:

with a 10 foot head start.:wink2:

For a 2 ton car stock on street tires...I dont know of any make or model car apples to apples that can achieve this...
I was out at the track in cali...and out "'60ed" low 12 second cars all night long...
the only person to hit a 1.7 was a supercharged vette making over 500 hp to the rear with monster tires in the back....
any G8 stock hitting a 2.0 -2.1 60' ft is amazing....
The only car close to mine power wise was a SRT8 charger (every other car was heavily modded or supercharged I ran against) he had a 2.3 60ft mine was 2.1 ( All other cars I raced where low 12 cars that I had pulled for the first 60 to 300 ft on.)
I agree completely, but I wonder if the 19 inch wheels slow you down. Personally the 19 inch wheels are a must on this car.

don't confuse appearance and performance....different spelling altogether.

I wana go fast, I wana go fast.....
Tried all the shift tricks and what not...any suggestions on lower 60ft?
I didnt try lowering tire pressure...any one...?
Other ideas? (free mods?) lol

I wana go fast, I wana go fast.....
Tried all the shift tricks and what not...any suggestions on lower 60ft?
I didnt try lowering tire pressure...any one...?
Other ideas? (free mods?) lol

Yeah, lower your tire pressures! The 17" tires on my GTO like around 25psi, anything more and I get wheelhop pretty bad (or spin). Yours are thinner sidewall so you might not need to go that low.... or you might need to go lower. Put them down to around 30 and see how that works. If it works well, try 28. If that works better, try 26, keep going down until you see worse results.

I forgot what rear gear ratio the G8s have, but a rear swap when they start being sold will help get into the 12s.

I swapped my std 2.92's for 3.45's and it didn't make any difference to 1/4 times. With the 2.92' your trapping at the top of 3rd gear which is perfect. With the mods I was trapping at 117 in 3rd at about 6700 instead of 6100 in 4th. With more power and a stallie the 3.45's will be essential unless I want to be reving over 7200 though with a 26" rear tyre.

cheers

stock 13.49 with a 1.96 60ft at 104mph .

Tuned 13.10 @ 107 mph

DR + 100 shot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ge_zuzxink

What technique did you do to lauch the car to get a 1.96 jus curious..

I swapped my std 2.92's for 3.45's and it didn't make any difference to 1/4 times. With the 2.92' your trapping at the top of 3rd gear which is perfect. With the mods I was trapping at 117 in 3rd at about 6700 instead of 6100 in 4th. With more power and a stallie the 3.45's will be essential unless I want to be reving over 7200 though with a 26" rear tyre.

cheers
I dont think our L76 DOD motors can handle 6700 rpm can they? Even with a tune from vector they only raised it an additional 250 rpm.., What mods do you have on your Car besides cam and gears?

Yeah, lower your tire pressures! The 17" tires on my GTO like around 25psi, anything more and I get wheelhop pretty bad (or spin). Yours are thinner sidewall so you might not need to go that low.... or you might need to go lower. Put them down to around 30 and see how that works. If it works well, try 28. If that works better, try 26, keep going down until you see worse results.
Thanks, Im going to give that a try when I go back next week. I will see if theres any change...I am really trying to find out how to pull a higher trap speed as well....I dont know how the mags got 105+....I held 3rd gear at 101mph in the quarter...only a 1mph improvement from having the auto matic shift it...

^it is at ATCO... that was his trick, lol...

oh and whoever said 1.8 60' on street tires, stock car, stock trans :bs:

i cut 1.9's in my TBSS on the stock 20's... just lower psi to 24-ish, raise revs to 1500, punch on last yellow, and pray... lol...

I ran my G8 GT at Milan Dragway in michigan and all i have done to my car is a magnaflow catback exhaust and i ran a bunch of 14's and my best time was a 13.77@105mph in sport mode. it was about 65degrees out and i lunched at 1500RPM's with TCS on.

I hope after the tune down here at Vector and a CAI that i'll be runnin High 12's.

just wanted to add to the forum...:driving:

need sticky tires...

Those two publications are typically at low alt with very low DA and cool air on the east coast when they test. Your numbers are realistic, compared to all the other tests I've seen for the G8 GT, no worries. Just move east if you want a few tenths knocked off your times.