So, I bought my car out of state and I have been in contact with the service manager through emails and my latest batch of questions (which might seem dumb to some people but hey its my first brand new car :p) were concerning maintenance and upgrades conflicting with the warranty. Seeing as how I have seen some posts regarding similar subjects figured I would let you guys in on what information I got form the dealer...


"Ben,

Congratulations on the purchase of your new G8. I will try to answer you
questions as directly as possible.

1) What kind of maintenance am I allowed to do
myself and what needs to be done by the dealership?


Crown Pontiac nor General Motors can not tell you who may, or where to
service your vehicle. Certainly we would like the opportunity to perform all
of your recommended service needs however some people prefer to service
their vehicle themselves. I would recommend that you keep some sort of
detailed documentation, use GM approved fluids and filters should you run
into any problems down the road. All manufacturers require the vehicle to
be properly maintained for warranty purposes and one advantage to having a
service/maintenance with a dealership is that all of your vehicle service
records are kept on the computer for 7 years.

2) Can I change the oil?

If you have the skills and abilities to perform this then yes but as I said
above make sure that you keep some sort of detailed documentation and use GM
approved fluids and filters.

3) What kind of things have to be done by a GM dealer as to not void my
warranty?

Again, as I said General Motors can not tell you who may, or where to
service your vehicle. Just make sure you keep detailed records and follow
the factory recommended maintenance schedule.

4) Also, with service that has to be done at a dealer?

See #3

5) Also, with service that has to be done at a dealer? Also, I live
in Meridian MS, will I be required to bring it back to Crown or am I allowed
to take it to somewhere closer because of the distance from me to Crown?

Service and warranty work can be performed at any Pontiac dealership in the
United States.

6) And while I am on the subject, what type of aftermarket enhancements are
allowed under the warranty? Would something like new mufflers or a better
flowing
air intake and filter void it completely?

General Motors does not recommend or approve any kind of aftermarket
enhancements unless they sold by (and therefore approved) General Motors.
You asked specifically about exhaust and air intake. Installation of this
type of equipment would not necessarily void the entire warranty on the
vehicle.....however..... if you develop any kind of driveability issues,
main engine computer problems/failures these types of things will probably
not be covered and certainly any diagnostic charges would be your
responsibility.

Hope that answers your questions, feel free to contact me if you have any
more questions. Enjoy your new car!"

Service manager at Crown Pontiac in Birmingham AL sent this to me. Might help clear some things up for other folks too.

Thanks for posting, HardEight.

I find the response to your question about aftermarket air intakes and exhausts to be quite informative - it indicates that GM is not inclined to just declare a powertrain warranty void for minor bolt-ons like this.

Thanks for posting, HardEight.

I find the response to your question about aftermarket air intakes and exhausts to be quite informative - it indicates that GM is not inclined to just declare a powertrain warranty void for minor bolt-ons like this.

That's probably because legally they can't. I am impressed that they were that honest about everything.

That's probably because legally they can't. I am impressed that they were that honest about everything.

yeah maybe but a tune air intake and exhaust can void parts of your powertrain warrenty

That's probably because legally they can't. I am impressed that they were that honest about everything.Yep, same here.

yeah maybe but a tune air intake and exhaust can void parts of your powertrain warrenty

"Can" is the key word there. Obviously, anything that breaks because of a CAI or exhaust will not be covered. But, they can not say your powertrain warranty is void because you put a CAI or exhaust on.

"Can" is the key word there. Obviously, anything that breaks because of a CAI or exhaust will not be covered. But, they can not say your powertrain warranty is void because you put a CAI or exhaust on.

again but they can void parts of your powertrain warrenty as i said. say your enginge blows and you aftermarket programing they can and will deny the claim not to mention it would go on the VIS and no other dealer would be able to help you either, but i'll assume thats why you didn't touch the subject of the tune.

I didn't want to go anywhere near mentioning a tune. I am pretty sure that would completely void the entire powertrain, since it pretty much controls everything about the car. What I am curious about is, if something goes wrong, will they go through and check an ECM to see if it has been flashed? Or can they even tell? I had heard about some of the corvette guys getting their warranty claims denied due to the service center checking the ECM and there was something in the programing that could tell them if it had been messed with. Is that the case with our cars???

I didn't want to go anywhere near mentioning a tune. I am pretty sure that would completely void the entire powertrain, since it pretty much controls everything about the car. What I am curious about is, if something goes wrong, will they go through and check an ECM to see if it has been flashed? Or can they even tell? I had heard about some of the corvette guys getting their warranty claims denied due to the service center checking the ECM and there was something in the programing that could tell them if it had been messed with. Is that the case with our cars???

If that is your concern, buy another ECM, have it tuned and swap them out if something does go wrong.

I have no idea about the corvettes or these engines. I have seen many people post that they absolutely can not tell if it's been flashed. I know for a fact that the new diesel engines can tell if they have been flashed before.

So if you do tune your stock ECM just make sure you flash it back to stock and all should be well.

I didn't want to go anywhere near mentioning a tune. I am pretty sure that would completely void the entire powertrain, since it pretty much controls everything about the car. What I am curious about is, if something goes wrong, will they go through and check an ECM to see if it has been flashed? Or can they even tell? I had heard about some of the corvette guys getting their warranty claims denied due to the service center checking the ECM and there was something in the programing that could tell them if it had been messed with. Is that the case with our cars???

yes we can check to see if your tune has been altered, but the only time you would do that is when gm would tell us to and the only time i've seen it happen was with a durmax truck, but that said that is why you opt for the additional ecm and get to know your dealer take care of them and they'll take care of you.

yes we can check to see if your tune has been altered, but the only time you would do that is when gm would tell us to and the only time i've seen it happen was with a durmax truck, but that said that is why you opt for the additional ecm and get to know your dealer take care of them and they'll take care of you.

You can see if the parameters on the ECM have been changed. But, if I were to put a tune on and then before going in for service at the dealer I flash it back to stock can you tell anything?

You can see if the parameters on the ECM have been changed. But, if I were to put a tune on and then before going in for service at the dealer I flash it back to stock can you tell anything?

no, thats why i mentioned having a 2nd ecm. and when/if the handhelds come out thats all you would have to do.

no, thats why i mentioned having a 2nd ecm. and when/if the handhelds come out thats all you would have to do.

What about the TCM?

What about the TCM?

I am wondering about this one as well. The TCM is not exactly something that you are going to buy and just swap out. I seriously doubt that they look into the TCM very often. I am very interested in seeing what the answer to this is though.

You can see if the parameters on the ECM have been changed. But, if I were to put a tune on and then before going in for service at the dealer I flash it back to stock can you tell anything?

I've heard that there are "finger prints" left in the ECM and TCM that count the times it's been flashed. The same person that told me that also told me that there is many slots for that memory, therefor if you do have to flash back to stock, flash it like 10 times.

I don't know if what he told me is fact, maybe someone more informed can let us know.

I plan to buy another ECM and flash the TCM...unless other info comes out to prove they can tell the TCM was flashed.

A Technician with a Tech2 scanner CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT, see what fuel, spark, and other mapping table curves you have had adjusted via an aftermarket tuner.

They CAN see any parameter changes. But those parameter change options are an options set within the PCM and can be adjusted by another Tech2 scanner at any other dealership or anyone with access to either a Tech2 or tuning software.

For example, they offer two wheel/tire combos for the same car. Within the PCM's parameter, it has a setting for each of those option tire/wheel combo's. You buy the lesser 18" option and later upgrade to the 19" wheels (buying them on this board or something). You then go in with a Tech2 or other tuning device and change that selection to the 19" combo. Since they are factory options, there is NO harm and no warranty voiding due to settings. This is just an example, not necessarily how it's set in the PCM. Just used to illustrate a point.

IF, you have your PCM reflashed by a Tech2, YOU WILL LOSE ALL FUEL, SPARK, and ANY OTHER MAPPING CURVES FROM AN AFTERMARKET TUNE! You will have to have it re-tuned.

A Technician with a Tech2 scanner CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT, see what fuel, spark, and other mapping table curves you have had adjusted via an aftermarket tuner.

They CAN see any parameter changes. But those parameter change options are an options set within the PCM and can be adjusted by another Tech2 scanner at any other dealership or anyone with access to either a Tech2 or tuning software.

For example, they offer two wheel/tire combos for the same car. Within the PCM's parameter, it has a setting for each of those option tire/wheel combo's. You buy the lesser 18" option and later upgrade to the 19" wheels (buying them on this board or something). You then go in with a Tech2 or other tuning device and change that selection to the 19" combo. Since they are factory options, there is NO harm and no warranty voiding due to settings. This is just an example, not necessarily how it's set in the PCM. Just used to illustrate a point.

IF, you have your PCM reflashed by a Tech2, YOU WILL LOSE ALL FUEL, SPARK, and ANY OTHER MAPPING CURVES FROM AN AFTERMARKET TUNE! You will have to have it re-tuned.

VMS told me that if you get their ECM a dealer can not override their tune. It will come up with an error message or something like that. Not sure about the TCM. But, I am guessing dealers rarely flash the TCM. Unless they come out with a fix for the transmission shifting. But, I love the TCM tune so I wouldn't bother having them do that to mine.

VMS told me that if you get their ECM a dealer can not override their tune. It will come up with an error message or something like that. Not sure about the TCM. But, I am guessing dealers rarely flash the TCM. Unless they come out with a fix for the transmission shifting. But, I love the TCM tune so I wouldn't bother having them do that to mine.

If they get an error, wouldn't that clue them into something being wrong? Seems like the best way to go is just get the extra ECM and if something goes haywire, swap the stock one back in.

But, and this maybe a stupid question, do the ECMs log things like time driven and miles traveled? If so would these numbers being off (from the stock ECM being absent during miles of driving) would this tip anyone off?

Geez this is a lot of trouble. Why doesn't GM just let their technicians do aftermarket upgrades and tunings. Seems like it wouldn't cause too much trouble. Plus it seems odd they wouldn't want to promote more power and better mileage that can be squeezed out of their cars when they come off the lot.

Ehhh enough daydreaming. Guess I will just keep trying to think of ways to get past the man...

here is a little info on a PI from gm i didn't list the whole thing cause some of it is irrelevent. to answer the question on the tcm, since the 6 speed auto has been out almost all models have had a need for a reflash. another thing the trans is relatively new so i would expect more reflashes to come. like CMNTMXR57 said the tech can not tell what has been changed as far as mapping goes, and as i said a tech more than likely is not even going to compare CVN's unless told to by GM, in which case there is probably a case # and tech assist wants to know. one thing to remember a tech gets paid by the job and the faster said job is done the more jobs they can do, calling TAC and taking pics of tech 2 screens will only slow them down, so unless instructed to do so they're not going to be checking

this is part of the PI

A dealer may have the need to verify engine calibrations. If a dealer feels an aftermarket power-up calibration has induced engine and/or drive train damage, there is now a way to verify what calibration is currently in the vehicle.

If a suspicious hard part failure is observed in the engine, transmission, transfer case, or driveline, perform the calibration verification described to determine if a non GM issued engine calibration is installed. Non GM issued engine calibrations subject driveline components to stresses different than those that these components were validated to. Repairs to transmission, transfer case and / or other driveline components where a non GM engine calibration has been verified, are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.

Although the part numbers will be the same for each, it's the CVN that will determine if the calibration is GM issued.

If ALL of the CVN's are EXACTLY the same, the calibration is GM issued.

If the part numbers match and ANY calibration verification numbers (CVN's) do not match the printout, it is likely that a non GM certified calibration has been installed.

In order to document the case - a CLEAR digital picture should be taken of the TECH 2 screen showing the VIN and the CVN's that do not match the TIS2WEB printout. The picture and a PDF copy of the TIS2WEB printout should be forwarded to for verification along with the VIN and the reason the vehicle is currently in for service. Please copy your GM Area Service Manager (DVM/DSM) on the e-mail. GM will verify if the CVN's are not GM issued and respond via e-mail within 48 hours.

If both the Part numbers and the CVN are different, photograph the part numbers and CVN's on the tech 2 screen as described above, assuring the VIN shows clearly in the photograph of the TECH2 screen, and check to see if the vehicle has the latest released calibration. If the latest released calibration is not installed in the vehicle, the part numbers will not match , and the CVN's won't either. E- mail the original Part Numbers and CVN's found in the vehicle on the TECH 2 to: .com to check if the calibration and CVN matches a previous release. Recalibrate with the latest released cal and re-check against the part numbers and CVN's that are released

Great post, thanks for the information.

to answer the question on the tcm, since the 6 speed auto has been out almost all models have had a need for a reflash.

What's you're point here; that even if we get the TCM reprogrammed, Pontiac might overwrite our custom programming at some point? Or that they won't know that it's custom and/or won't care?


and as i said a tech more than likely is not even going to compare CVN's unless told to by GM

Can you explain the CVNs for those of us who don't know what this is? Does each item in the ECM have a corresponding CVN? If you swap the ECM with an aftermarket one, but then put the original back in prior to getting the car serviced, will the CVN(s) match the original programming?

Thanks for giving us some more insight into this situation! I for one am interested in having better shift performance than stock from the A6, just based on feedback from other board members. But, it's sure not worth the risk of voiding the warranty if there's an easy way for the dealership to find out about it.

Great post, thanks for the information.



What's you're point here; that even if we get the TCM reprogrammed, Pontiac might overwrite our custom programming at some point? Or that they won't know that it's custom and/or won't care?



Can you explain the CVNs for those of us who don't know what this is? Does each item in the ECM have a corresponding CVN? If you swap the ECM with an aftermarket one, but then put the original back in prior to getting the car serviced, will the CVN(s) match the original programming?

Thanks for giving us some more insight into this situation! I for one am interested in having better shift performance than stock from the A6, just based on feedback from other board members. But, it's sure not worth the risk of voiding the warranty if there's an easy way for the dealership to find out about it.



correct, so best solution if you're bringing your car in ask about any recalls as sometimes they will do it in that form and reprogram on that route. also i wouldn't bring it in for trans issues (i.e. how it shifts or other small things) if you have it programmed, try going through the tuner first. also if you had to get the trans replaced expect to have it retuned. like i said before they can tell if the software is gm or not wheather they care or not depends on the situation more than anything else.


Calibration Verification Numbers (cvn's) are a way to know what programming is present. if you swap ecms the orginal ecm will have whatever programming was on it when you took it out, thats why i suggest having the spare ecm.

so much info, thank you Poncho, this answers all my questions.

Good info Poncho.

I agree, the spare ECM seems to be the way to go. It may cost more in the beginning, but still keeping that warranty is worth a lot more...

this may sound stupid, but will long tube, offroad Y, heads and cam, blower void warranty?

With out a spare tcm and who knows how hard that would be to swap in and out, isn't having a spare ecm a waste? I would think any damage to the engine, is probably not as risky as to the tranny, I know many people who have never blow up an engine, but have seen many trannies go south. It would just make sense to swap out both if you are concerned about the warranty. I don't know if I feel comfortable swapping out a tcm that is in the tranny pan or valve body everytime I have a problem. The cost of a new 6l80e is probably more than my fbody is worth, even with a t-56. I just don't see how changing one the ecm and not the tcm is going to solve the tranny shift issues and if a problem does arise and you did change the programming then what?

do the ECMs log things like time driven and miles traveled?

If so would these numbers being off (from the stock ECM being absent during miles of driving) would this tip anyone off?

I didn't notice an answer to this question.

Obviously, there is a calibration program memory in an ECM.

But, is there a usage memory in an ECM?

A memory that would indicate a gap of record from using a second ECM?

Which leads us to: Does the ECM have a black box type of record capability?

Hmmm, I don't think so, probably not, but I don't know for sure...

THIS THREAD: http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12605&highlight=tuning+warranty is making things clear...

That is exactly what my dealership told me when I bought my car from them.

Bump for nubies