I've noticed a lot of interest online for the G8 with a V6/M6 combo, and I can't say I'm surprised. Many can't pony up for the GT nor do they want V8 fuel consumption, but still want a sporty drive.

Are you listening GM?

We've all seen the unofficial "official" info on that. They say 5-speed auto only for the V6.

GM isn't listening, and they don't care. If people want the 3.6L with RWD and a manual, they'll have to look to the new CTS.

The companion complaint is why only 2 engines in this car. Back in its heyday, GM would have offered possibly 6 different engines in various sizes and tunes. And it is not like they don't have the engines available. (5.3 l V8 303 hp in GP and Impala). A 100 hp jump from one offering to the next will ultimately cause some buyers to buy other than this car if they want just a little more than 261 hp, but do not necessarily need all 362 (or more) and the lack of fuel economy that goes with it. And where is the base-base model with modest 200 hp? Certainly several thousands of GP's get sold each year with that engine. Is that a segment that Pontiac plans on giving up - or will teh G6 stretch to fill the void?

I'd say the G6 is there to fill that void.


on the topic of fuel consumption:
http://www.holden.com.au/images/uploads/GM%20Holden%20fuel%20economy1153725999231.pdf

6.0 liter
14.6 liters = 3.8580 gallons per 100km or 62.1371 miles. 16.1 MPG! Hey at least Holden's fuel economy ratings are closer to real world combined.

The v6 should be getting around 21 mpg.

Why? I think you’ll find the numbers don’t support your theory. Most people in the market for the G8 are purposely looking at it, because of it’s V8. So V6 sales will be small. As such, it doesn’t make cost effective sense to have a manual transmission available for a low production option.

It’s not that GM “isn’t listening” or “that they don’t care”. GM is in the business to make money. Looking at the nuts and bolts of it, a manual trans V6 isn’t feasible. If you’re in the market for a car with a V6 because you don’t want the V8 fuel consumption (which there isn’t a lot of difference between the consumption an extra two cylinders make unless you drive WOT all the time), there are other smaller, more efficient options available with V6 and manual trans options.

That’s the problem many people like the OP make. They think about cars emotionally and “what if” without any scientific research or polls to back their theory. That’s all fine and dandy with your own personal car, but if you’re in the business of pushing tin, you gotta drive your business based on your income statement and balance sheet! I’m sure GM HAS done their homework whether you like it or not! They have people like me that do this level of financial and market analysis and actually put numbers behind the theories!

Oh, and if you don’t believe me about that fact that the V6 sales will be small, a simple look at this board’s demo proves my point, there is small interest in the V6 in this car. In the tech section, the V6 section has 1 thread and 26 posts. The V8 section by comparison has 16 threads and 261 posts. In the general chat sections, the V6 portion has 3 threads and 19 posts. Compared to both V8 sections, which have 13 threads and 195 posts.

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that the V6 isn’t gonna be a very hot commodity!

Oh, and if you don’t believe me about that fact that the V6 sales will be small, a simple look at this board’s demo proves my point, there is small interest in the V6 in this car. In the tech section, the V6 section has 1 thread and 26 posts. The V8 section by comparison has 16 threads and 261 posts. In the general chat sections, the V6 portion has 3 threads and 19 posts. Compared to both V8 sections, which have 13 threads and 195 posts.

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that the V6 isn’t gonna be a very hot commodity!
That doesn't prove much. The people that are attracted to this forum are mainly performance enthusiasts who would naturally prefer a V8 to a V6, hence the larger number of posts in the V8 section.

If you want to compare how V6 sales will be compared to the V8's then look at the Mustang, must of the current day S-197's are sold as V6's. The reason is that a good bunch of people prefer it's sporty design without the extra fuel consumption and added insurance.


Having said that, I can't make an informed comment on the matter of a manual being available for the V6 or not.

That doesn't prove much. The people that are attracted to this forum are mainly performance enthusiasts who would naturally prefer a V8 to a V6, hence the larger number of posts in the V8 section.

If you want to compare how V6 sales will be compared to the V8's then look at the Mustang, must of the current day S-197's are sold as V6's. The reason is that a good bunch of people prefer it's sporty design without the extra fuel consumption and added insurance.


Having said that, I can't make an informed comment on the matter of a manual being available for the V6 or not.

Exactly! But don't sell yourself short about commenting on V6/manual. I think what GM has revealed so far proves your point. The bulk of the sales will be the V6 model, going to people who are price/fuel concious, yet are attracted to the G8's styling, RWD, and overall package. GM is figuring the "TRUE" enthusiast will surely want a V8, so that is why the manual is only going to be available with the V8 (based on what we know so far).

There are not many enthusiasts out there that will opt for the V6 and a stick. Just look at all the other sport sedans out there, what percentage do you see out there that are stick? When I look up used BMW 3,5 and CTS all I see is automatics even ones with the sport package have autos. If people don't buy those cars with sticks what makes people think there is going to be a huge demand for the v6 G8 with a stick?

That doesn't prove much. The people that are attracted to this forum are mainly performance enthusiasts who would naturally prefer a V8 to a V6, hence the larger number of posts in the V8 section.

If you want to compare how V6 sales will be compared to the V8's then look at the Mustang, must of the current day S-197's are sold as V6's. The reason is that a good bunch of people prefer it's sporty design without the extra fuel consumption and added insurance.


Having said that, I can't make an informed comment on the matter of a manual being available for the V6 or not.

Yea, it does! You kinda proved my point... I'll re-qoute your comment exactly;

The people that are attracted to this forum are mainly performance enthusiasts who would naturally prefer a V8 to a V6, hence the larger number of posts in the V8 section.

Just like people interested in the car OUTSIDE this forum. Just because you're on a vehicle specific forum doesn't determine what you're purchase intentions are! LOL!

Fact is, people who are wanting this car are attracted to it for a V8, 4 door, RWD performance sedan. Not a watered down, V6 version to save on fuel and insurance, just to have this car in particular!

And FWIW, I know a lot of "performance enthusiasts" out there that have cars that don't come out of the single digits in the quarter mile on a bad day, but don't know where the power button is on a computer! Just because you're on the net and found this site, doesn't mean you're a "performance enthusiast" and they're not!

Yea, it does! You kinda proved my point... I'll re-qoute your comment exactly;



Just like people interested in the car OUTSIDE this forum. Just because you're on a vehicle specific forum doesn't determine what you're purchase intentions are! LOL!

Fact is, people who are wanting this car are attracted to it for a V8, 4 door, RWD performance sedan. Not a watered down, V6 version to save on fuel and insurance, just to have this car in particular!
Don't mix up our ideals with that of what the general people do want, we are a niche market and that's why the cars that appeal to us are scarce. The average American buyer cares about MPG and insurance costs more so then having a plundering V8 under the hood.

If you're talking facts then show me any sports oriented vehicle that has sold more of it's bigger engine variant then it's smaller one.

And FWIW, I know a lot of "performance enthusiasts" out there that have cars that don't come out of the single digits in the quarter mile on a bad day, but don't know where the power button is on a computer! Just because you're on the net and found this site, doesn't mean you're a "performance enthusiast" and they're not!
Where precisely have I pointed that only the computer literate are "performance enthusiasts"?

Where you ask? Right here. I'll even be so kind as to bold it for you...

That doesn't prove much. The people that are attracted to this forum are mainly performance enthusiasts who would naturally prefer a V8 to a V6, hence the larger number of posts in the V8 section.

How do you differentiate them as performance enthusiasts? LOL! Because we can figure out how to post to a UBB on the interweb? That makes us a niche market of performance enthusiasts? I guess I didn't realize that in order to have been a member of the F-Body community like I was, that I had to be on all the F-Body sites. Same with the GTO. I've met several GTO members recently who have more done to their GTO's and are quicker than I am, and have never logged onto LS1GTO.com! They must be less of a "performance enthusiasts" though, right?

AS to facts about V6 models selling more than V8's, yes, if your intent on the car is to sell it as a volume based model to rental/fleet companies and to substantiate the cost of your invest to obtain ROI, then yes, the premise on your sales model is push the V6 version. That however IS NOT this car! Much akin to the GTO, it is meant to be solely a performance version. This is why Pontiac didn't even offer a V6 version. They didn't want the "GTO" name and mystique assimilated with a high volume, rental V6 car.

The volume sales part of this car will probably be like the GTO and will be sold in Australia, Middle East and maybe Europe.

I'd ask what's the point of a v6 manual transmission car when you have a V8 model available. Step up to the V8 if you want to be sporty.

Hopefully GM will release some info and we will see how much of a difference there is in MPG. With the DOD of the V8 there may be some higher than expected numbers. Only time and the people moving at a snail's pace at GM will tell.

Where you ask? Right here. I'll even be so kind as to bold it for you...

How do you differentiate them as performance enthusiasts? LOL! Because we can figure out how to post to a UBB on the interweb? That makes us a niche market of performance enthusiasts? I guess I didn't realize that in order to have been a member of the F-Body community like I was, that I had to be on all the F-Body sites. Same with the GTO. I've met several GTO members recently who have more done to their GTO's and are quicker than I am, and have never logged onto LS1GTO.com! They must be less of a "performance enthusiasts" though, right?
I still can't see where I made that assumption. You are taking my words out of context, that post was directed towards the matter of how the V8 subforum has more threads and reply's then the V6 subforum. Nice try :rolleyes:

AS to facts about V6 models selling more than V8's, yes, if your intent on the car is to sell it as a volume based model to rental/fleet companies and to substantiate the cost of your invest to obtain ROI, then yes, the premise on your sales model is push the V6 version. That however IS NOT this car! Much akin to the GTO, it is meant to be solely a performance version. This is why Pontiac didn't even offer a V6 version. They didn't want the "GTO" name and mystique assimilated with a high volume, rental V6 car.
Surprise, If it was meant as soley a performance car it would not have 4 doors. It is meant to be a practicle, exciting vehicle that people would find pleasent, be they inclined towards the V6 or the V8.
And you are incorrect about the GTO, more assumptions here too? The Monaro never had a V6 in the first place, if it did then you would of most likely seen the car sold in the US as a V6 & V8.

GM is getting out of the rental car business if anyone has been reading the business articles here lately. Looks like they are finally trying to change their brand image.

Because it takes money and time to certify and extensively test each drivetrain option I dont think you'll see a manual with the V6. I know the CTS has a 5 speed trans with the V6 - that might help the business case, but nothing is is really set in motion as far as I know.

V6 is a fleet/ rental car......I agree with cmntmxr57's comments and he won't have to go too far out on that limb. I took an SV6 for a spin today and I wouldnt buy one. It goes fine but don't go expecting to put posts in the kill section. The G8 is a far better animal and will show in sales to private buyers.

Why? I think you’ll find the numbers don’t support your theory. Most people in the market for the G8 are purposely looking at it, because of it’s V8. So V6 sales will be small. As such, it doesn’t make cost effective sense to have a manual transmission available for a low production option.

I agree with you that it doesn't make sense to have the manual option for the V6 model, because I also doubt it would be cost-effective. However, I do disagree in your assessment that V6 sales will be small. I think they'll be pretty big, and fall in-line with the trend of the Mustang. Lots of folks flock to the lots to look at Mustang GTs, but ultimately face a few problems:

1) Can't afford the bigger engine car's initial price
2) Can't afford the insurance
3) Unwilling to afford the gasoline

That is the main reason why Ford has so many V6 Mustang sales, because the buyers like the car, but need a "lesser" model.

I've noticed a lot of interest online for the G8 with a V6/M6 combo, and I can't say I'm surprised. Many can't pony up for the GT nor do they want V8 fuel consumption, but still want a sporty drive.

Are you listening GM?

GM listening I think not sadly, as the manual shift may be a challenge for production and sales as they probably have too many auto boxes already made on the shelf. Unfortunately we can only really vent through sales and if not enough sales then the product dies.
I have never really understood since the 90's and increase even in my generation (50's) towards manual shift the reluctance from all manufactures in north America towards manual shift in large cars. Even larger imports manual shift is scarce. excuses I receive is no sales well no kidding if not available and I want a certain model for looks, size, performance I have to buy automatic. Then here dealers and manufactures tell me sales in automatics are good???!!! no kidding that all you have. Oh yea.
Yes I have grief as I enjoy driving and a standard or manual shift and hearing now the the 2009 might? have manual has given me a usual sigh oh well figures. Yet europe big freeways small side roads have lots. Australia big all over also lots of manuals.... hmmm to many big bonus cheques for sales and not satisfaction in real customer feed back service. Can GM Ford Toyota Nissan Chrysler give a straight answer why really why no manual shift?
Like asking why no diesel engines in small like like the rest of the planet. Otherwise G8 looks like a beauty and finally have a nice day and would you like fries with that?

Stickshifts do not sell. less than 1% of new drivers even know how to shift one in the US. They are there mostly for good reviews in the magazines, and sometimes for mpg. Even the CTS-V is adding a slushbox. If we are very lucky when the Camaro gets one, we will too.

Have you ever noticed how many of the Chrysler 300s you see everywhere have that little "C" on the trunk? About 2 in 10 in this area. I think GM will sell a lot of V6 models if the G8 becomes as popular as we hope it will.

As long as my G8 has that little "GT" on the tail, fine with me. Just that many more teeny-boppers in the WRXs they talked Mommy & Daddy into buying for them thinking a G8 is an easy mark. Hee hee hee.

Stickshifts do not sell. less than 1% of new drivers even know how to shift one in the US. Everyone should learn to drive stick.

Just that many more teeny-boppers in the WRXs they talked Mommy & Daddy into buying for them thinking a G8 is an easy mark. Hee hee hee.
Subaru builds half-baked cars.

Stickshifts do not sell. less than 1% of new drivers even know how to shift one in the US. They are there mostly for good reviews in the magazines, and sometimes for mpg. Even the CTS-V is adding a slushbox. If we are very lucky when the Camaro gets one, we will too.

Half of GTOs sold were manuals and they went the quickest while automatic GTOs lingered. The same type of people are looking at G8s.

Pontiac has a performance image and is not backing it up, there is not an excuse for not offering this car with all the options, colors, configurations they are already building it with for the Australians.

That is the main reason why Ford has so many V6 Mustang sales, because the buyers like the car, but need a "lesser" model.

Plenty of those sell with manuals as well.

This situation is typical GM and illustrates why they continue to slide into oblivion. They don't offer what consumers want and other manufacturers step in who do. GM loses and looks stupid in the process.

They bothered to put hoodscoops on this car but couldn't be bothered to offer a manual transmission to back up that image? How brilliant.

Plenty of those sell with manuals as well.


You're absolutely right, lots of manual V6 Mustangs motoring around... it gives the buyer the economical choice with the smaller engine, but still a sportier feel in that they can shift their own gears.

This situation is typical GM and illustrates why they continue to slide into oblivion. They don't offer what consumers want and other manufacturers step in who do. GM loses and looks stupid in the process.

They bothered to put hoodscoops on this car but couldn't be bothered to offer a manual transmission to back up that image? How brilliant.

I know... I would much prefer NO hoodscoops and a manual offering on both the G8 and G8 GT.

Half of GTOs sold were manuals and they went the quickest while automatic GTOs lingered. The same type of people are looking at G8s.

I suspect a lot of that had to do with that fact the a FOUR speed auto is pretty weak for 2004-2006. Especially when the car was already over priced and the A4 was was priced higher than the M6 (after the gas guzzler tax).

Plenty of those sell with manuals as well.

This situation is typical GM and illustrates why they continue to slide into oblivion. They don't offer what consumers want and other manufacturers step in who do. GM loses and looks stupid in the process.

They bothered to put hoodscoops on this car but couldn't be bothered to offer a manual transmission to back up that image? How brilliant.

I still cant understand why the VXR is getting the manual transmission and the G8 isnt..... They are basically the same dang car. Thats the hold up GM? Get on the ball and make 50% or more of the people looking to buy these cars HAPPY! PLEASE I need a new car!

Jeremy

The Monaro never had a V6 in the first place, if it did then you would of most likely seen the car sold in the US as a V6 & V8.

Er.. sorry you're wrong here - the Monaro had a 3.8L supercharged version known as the CV6 and Lumina S in the ME(it was the old Buick engine) for the first couple of years but despite a $10K lower price the take up rate was apparently so small (1 tenth of the total) that they gave up on it around about the time they started building the 2004 Pontiac GTOs.
I suspect Pontiac would not have wanted to dilute the GTO image with a V6 car even if Monaro CV6s had been more popular. The G8's an entirely different kettle of fish and they're hoping to sell more than twice per annum as many as they ever managed to GTOs so the availability of the V6 is important. However, please note that Commodore V6 manual sales would have to be pretty small here in Oz, most people opting for the various Autos (even the scungy old 4 speed).

I want the V6 and a Manual. The lack of a V6 manaul is why the G8 isn't on the top of my Winter Car list (yes I am looking at a RWD car for the winter).

I'd settle for the Automatic but only if I can't lease a Manual Astra (rumor is GMAC is holding back lease info because they don't want to lease them).

That is of course assuming they don't do the same to the G8.

What I REALLY want is a Ute, V6, Manual, Bluetooth, and XM.

I still cant understand why the VXR is getting the manual transmission and the G8 isnt..... They are basically the same dang car. Thats the hold up GM? Get on the ball and make 50% or more of the people looking to buy these cars HAPPY! PLEASE I need a new car!

Jeremy

The delay in the US 2008 V8 Manual model is caused by ONE THING.... AFM.

No other version of the Commodore/Lumina/VXR has AFM, only the G8 does. Right now they have calibrated the 6-speed Automatic to understand AFM, but the Manual requires a bit more work (as you could shift while cruising in V4 mode).

The kinks in that should be worked out for the 2009 model year.

I had a Mazda with a Manual prior to this car, and I never thought I would want an Automatic ever again, but I liked the G8 looks and the RWD and when I drove the G8 V6 with auto it sold me, of course the sale price and GM discount helped seal the deal.

I love to drive my G8:driving:

Subaru builds half-baked cars.

I disagree.

I disagree.

Guess you never had a 360 with the suicide doors.

The V6 needs two things, well three, actually
1. DI version with over 300 hp
2. 6 speed auto AND manual, shoot, they put 6M in 4 cylinder Opels, and they plan on installing 2.4 L I4 w/6 speed AT in a 4000# Buick (expected Hp, 177)
3. AWD

Little bit large than the normal rally car but as balanced as it is to start with think how well this vehicle would work powering both ends through a slide.

I do believe that the new Camaro has the DI V6 and the manual transmission.

If I am not mistaken the Aussie's build both the G8 and the Camaro off the same chasis.

Could it possibly be GM finiancial people trying to squeeze as much profit as they can out of these cars?