There are still a handful of G8 GT here in Florida but they are selling fast. The best I have seen is invoice plus (actually minus) the $6500 incentive. Is that good?

There are still a handful of G8 GT here in Florida but they are selling fast. The best I have seen is invoice plus (actually minus) the $6500 incentive. Is that good?

Well, the question is, what are they offering for 'invoice'? I'm sure that varies dealer by dealer. If it's enough under MSRP, then I think it's a hell of a deal.

And what can you afford? I had my mind set on a specific number [equal to what I had saved], and when they sprung these rebates, that met my goal and I had one settled on in a few hours.

IMO, all Pontiacs are going to sell out pretty quickly with these rebates, and I do not think you'll see GM offer anything else to move these. So, if you want one [and can afford it], better move quickly.

Best of luck!
mlm

Well, the question is, what are they offering for 'invoice'? I'm sure that varies dealer by dealer. If it's enough under MSRP, then I think it's a hell of a deal.

And what can you afford? I had my mind set on a specific number [equal to what I had saved], and when they sprung these rebates, that met my goal and I had one settled on in a few hours.

IMO, all Pontiacs are going to sell out pretty quickly with these rebates, and I do not think you'll see GM offer anything else to move these. So, if you want one [and can afford it], better move quickly.

Best of luck!
mlm

You nailed it. She told me Invoice plus incentives. I looked on Edmunds and saw that they had like $1500 built in the car. She came back saying they had only $750. I thought they "invoice" price should be constant accross all dealers, but what they would actually sell it for would vary.

Unfortunately, I am too busy today to make it to any dealers and I have a feeling that they all could be sold by tomorrow.

MSRP and invoice are both bogus numbers to me. The only two numbers that matter are what the dealer actually paid for the car (not necessarily invoice) and what you pay for the car. Something like TrueCar (http://truecar.com/index.html) might help you in your figuring out a price. Good luck

You nailed it. She told me Invoice plus incentives. I looked on Edmunds and saw that they had like $1500 built in the car. She came back saying they had only $750. I thought they "invoice" price should be constant accross all dealers, but what they would actually sell it for would vary.

Unfortunately, I am too busy today to make it to any dealers and I have a feeling that they all could be sold by tomorrow.


These things won't sell as fast as you think. Most people I talk too don't even know what a G8 is! I've been doing a 150 mile search for the last three months and 50 sedans and 50 GT's show up every time. Lots of Red G8's out there.

MSRP and invoice are both bogus numbers to me. The only two numbers that matter are what the dealer actually paid for the car (not necessarily invoice) and what you pay for the car. Something like TrueCar (http://truecar.com/index.html) might help you in your figuring out a price. Good luck

So, based on how much a dealer paid for a car, how much should you let them make off you?

I love asking this question.

So...what is Supplier price? I have a copy of an invoice for a GT with a sticker of $32,750.00 The dealer circled the supplier price as his starting point. So after current rebates,dealer cash and $1500 GM card I figure I could get the car for $22,775.00 +tax. I haven't even seen a used 2009 GT that low yet.

These things won't sell as fast as you think. Most people I talk too don't even know what a G8 is! I've been doing a 150 mile search for the last three months and 50 sedans and 50 GT's show up every time. Lots of Red G8's out there.

Yeah, that's the way it was 7 days ago. Once this 6500 rebate hit, the dealers I had been talking to started selling out of the GT. I used to see 50 GT when I did a search, now it is like 10.

Yeah, that's the way it was 7 days ago. Once this 6500 rebate hit, the dealers I had been talking to started selling out of the GT. I used to see 50 GT when I did a search, now it is like 10.

They are definitely going fast now. I have been tracking inventory at 4-5 dealers that I have worked with and they are definitely moving. At least the GTs that I've been watching.

The inventory list on Pontiac.com is much slower to update. The car I put a deposit on last week is still listed as well as several that no longer show up on dealer web sites.

I think we're seeing now the same thing that happened with the GXPs over the summer. But it'll take longer since there were maybe 10x more GTs made and they certainly have much smaller collector cachet than the GXP did. GT Colors and options are very thin already.

As far as your original questions, 2 things you will never ever determine are a) what it costs GM to build a car, and b) what the dealer's true cost/profit was. They hide it under so many layers of invoice, dealer's price, Supplier price, GMS price, etc etc. Which are all "bogus prices." [Sorry, Dan, but it's true.] I guess MSRP is "real" in that it's just a suggestion. I don't believe for a second that the dealer pays "invoice" to GM.

So my advice is to never worry about what the dealer has paid or is is getting. Do your research about what cars are selling for, and set a price for yourself. You can only figure out the highest you're willing to pay, and if your numbers don't match, walk right on out the door!

For better or for worse, it's a model that's worked for a long time. I think everyone dreams of being able to go straight to GM and buy a car direct from them without the middlemen. But how well do you trust big daddy GM to work as closely with you to hammer out the last nickel of price?

Cheers,
mlm

They are definitely going fast now. I have been tracking inventory at 4-5 dealers that I have worked with and they are definitely moving. At least the GTs that I've been watching.

The inventory list on Pontiac.com is much slower to update. The car I put a deposit on last week is still listed as well as several that no longer show up on dealer web sites.

I think we're seeing now the same thing that happened with the GXPs over the summer. But it'll take longer since there were maybe 10x more GTs made and they certainly have much smaller collector cachet than the GXP did. GT Colors and options are very thin already.

As far as your original questions, 2 things you will never ever determine are a) what it costs GM to build a car, and b) what the dealer's true cost/profit was. They hide it under so many layers of invoice, dealer's price, Supplier price, GMS price, etc etc. Which are all "bogus prices." [Sorry, Dan, but it's true.] I guess MSRP is "real" in that it's just a suggestion. I don't believe for a second that the dealer pays "invoice" to GM.

So my advice is to never worry about what the dealer has paid or is is getting. Do your research about what cars are selling for, and set a price for yourself. You can only figure out the highest you're willing to pay, and if your numbers don't match, walk right on out the door!

For better or for worse, it's a model that's worked for a long time. I think everyone dreams of being able to go straight to GM and buy a car direct from them without the middlemen. But how well do you trust big daddy GM to work as closely with you to hammer out the last nickel of price?

Cheers,
mlm

My frustration is that I keep seeing 25K to 27K OTD on this forum and the best I can find is 29K OTD.

well, they are all 26-to 25k right now.

well, they are all 26-to 25k right now.

Are you talking +TTL or OTD? All the dealers are quoting me supplier price (750 below sticker) minus the incentives and they all say they cannot go any lower. That works out to be like 26K +TTL or 29K OTD! Is that really the best they can do?

They are definitely going fast now. I have been tracking inventory at 4-5 dealers that I have worked with and they are definitely moving. At least the GTs that I've been watching.

The inventory list on Pontiac.com is much slower to update. The car I put a deposit on last week is still listed as well as several that no longer show up on dealer web sites.

I think we're seeing now the same thing that happened with the GXPs over the summer. But it'll take longer since there were maybe 10x more GTs made and they certainly have much smaller collector cachet than the GXP did. GT Colors and options are very thin already.

As far as your original questions, 2 things you will never ever determine are a) what it costs GM to build a car, and b) what the dealer's true cost/profit was. They hide it under so many layers of invoice, dealer's price, Supplier price, GMS price, etc etc. Which are all "bogus prices." [Sorry, Dan, but it's true.] I guess MSRP is "real" in that it's just a suggestion. I don't believe for a second that the dealer pays "invoice" to GM.

So my advice is to never worry about what the dealer has paid or is is getting. Do your research about what cars are selling for, and set a price for yourself. You can only figure out the highest you're willing to pay, and if your numbers don't match, walk right on out the door!

For better or for worse, it's a model that's worked for a long time. I think everyone dreams of being able to go straight to GM and buy a car direct from them without the middlemen. But how well do you trust big daddy GM to work as closely with you to hammer out the last nickel of price?

Cheers,
mlm

I totally agree with you 100%. No offense taken because I don't even know what the dealer truly pays for a car. Only the guy with the name on the sign knows that.

I agree with you on researching what the true market value is for a car and what you see other people buying the like car for.

Good luck to all on getting a good price and to all a good night. ;)

Bottom line is the herd is dwindling on available new stock and soon it'll be "he who hesitates is lost" on getting one. Time to stop agonizing over if your getting a deal, end the "analysis paralysis" and if you are happy with your number get 'er done already!! ;)

Are you talking +TTL or OTD? All the dealers are quoting me supplier price (750 below sticker) minus the incentives and they all say they cannot go any lower. That works out to be like 26K +TTL or 29K OTD! Is that really the best they can do?

I learned a long time ago to not always believe everything you read. Much is unsubstantiated and every deal is unique. As stated, the most important thing is that you are happy with the bottom line deal. I wouldn't dwell on what others real or supposed deals are. The law of averages says that there will be some who do better and some who do worse on a deal.

You nailed it. She told me Invoice plus incentives. I looked on Edmunds and saw that they had like $1500 built in the car. She came back saying they had only $750.

The difference is probably the advertising allowance, often called "the pack", which is rebated to the dealer at the end of the year. $750 sounds about right for the pack on this car. Note that car salesmen don't necessarily know that the pack even exists, and it isn't included when their commission checks are calculated.

So, based on how much a dealer paid for a car, how much should you let them make off you?

Depends on how well they treat their customers before and after the sale. Unfortunately, since the customer is never sure how well he'll be treated after the sale, it's difficult to calculate what a fair profit is.

My dealer made about $2500 on me, including the whopping markup on the CNA extended warranty, and I don't begrudge them a penny of it. The after-sale service from Bill Delord Autocenter has been great so far. When the dealer robocalls you to tell you the owner's personal cellphone number, just in case you have ever a problem that isn't settled through normal channels, you know he is pretty darned confident about his fixed operations.

What is funny.... is that most salesmen will say things like... "I'm already taking a loss" or the entire sale is only making a profit of 500 bucks, and that really isn't a profit when you have to pay the sales-guy , manager, finance manager, car detailer, etc.

Whatever dude.

Call me heartless, but I don't care about your profit, I care about me getting into a car for as low as I can.

Your job (as a salesperson) is to get as much as you can , My job is to pay as little as I can..

It is a fun little game we play isn't it.

What is funny.... is that most salesmen will say things like... "I'm already taking a loss" or the entire sale is only making a profit of 500 bucks, and that really isn't a profit when you have to pay the sales-guy , manager, finance manager, car detailer, etc.

Whatever dude.

Call me heartless, but I don't care about your profit, I care about me getting into a car for as low as I can.

Your job (as a salesperson) is to get as much as you can , My job is to pay as little as I can..

It is a fun little game we play isn't it.

Because we're not at the point yet where we can buy a car completely online or over the phone without any human interaction, we have to deal with salespeople (men or women). In any case, it's a decent job in a country where most jobs are shipped overseas as soon as a corporation figures out a way to do so. In the mean time, I'm going to support my fellow Americans by not sweating the few hundred bucks a salesperson makes.

It's also the reason why I prefer to shop locally and support local merchants rather than go to the cheapest place (e.g., Wal Mart).

There are tons of other salesjobs that don't use those BS lines, like, "I'm already taking a loss on it".
Total BS-- Taking a Loss my ass. What they mean is, I am not squeezing as much out of you as I would like to.

My last few cars have been easy to negotiate. I let them tell me the sales price, I tell them the carsdirect.com price. and tell them if they match it I will buy it.

That doesn't mean I always get the best deal they would be willing to do, but I haven't come across a dealer that let me walk away. Because Carsdirect is fair and real price.

Works everytime.

IN the G8 instance, I simply used a quote from a "Gay Pontiac" here on this site. Told them the price, and they made it happen.

And since I paid 26.2 for a car that stickered for 33+ That is 7000 dollars difference, not a few hundred bucks. Not to mention that the cash back is a GM incentive to the dealer, so they get that in the form of a check from GM. So they were still making money on the car.