Hi Guys.

This is for all that have had the tune done and can comment on the results. Also to VMS to give some feedback if im right or not.

I have had the new ECM in since last week but I did not get the Crank re-learn done til yesterday.

1. I did not really notice a MPG difference at all to start with??,, however, the little I drove yesterday, after the re-learn, seemed to show an increase. Now, when I asked VMS about this (I think it was Dee) she said I will still see all the gains even though the check engine light will be on. Is this true??? Or does it make sense that I am only now getting the results after the learn????

I did notice a power difference for sure but I need to go back to the old ecm just to be sure.

VMS: Just want to makre sure; mine is all tuned with the CAI and mufflers right??

Also I had the re-learn done at my local dealer where I know the guy so he helped me out after hours. He brought the Tech II out and we fiddled with it. It was not easy though. Initially it would not display the data, it would lock you out of the info page?? I turned the stereo and AC off just to be sure and then it worked.

While doing the learn there were a total of 3 ECM DTC's and 3 others across the board that needed to be removed.??!! Where did they come form??!! They said they could notice a slight misfire idle during the learn and before all DTC's were removed. It does seem like it idle a little better now... Does this make sense???? And would that be reason why I was not getting the MPG gain???

Just to give you some numbers. I put the ECM in last week. I was at 1/4 a tank when it went in. So i did not really see any change there. I then filled up reset and through my regular driving habits got around 14.5mpg. I was getting around the same before.!!

I had just filled up yesterday so I reset on the drive home, after the re-learn which was about 20 mins. I would have thought I would've got around 15.5 from previous experience, but I had around 17.5 by the time I got home.
My car has just short of 4k.

Hope that all makes sense guys. Any input much appreciated.

Cheers.

Im thining it may have to with the updates from the factory that this thing needed given its an 888. That may be all the DTC's that were showing. But that doesnt make sense if its not the same ECM!!

If VMS did the tune for me at the shop, there is no need to do any relearn or anything like that, correct?

I'm still not seeing a big increase in fuel mileage (if any), ill probably have to fill up again sometime this week, so ill reset then and post the results.

Im thining it may have to with the updates from the factory that this thing needed given its an 888. That may be all the DTC's that were showing. But that doesnt make sense if its not the same ECM!!

It may have DTC's since it was bench programmed out of a car, they would be in the history not current. The only thing that should be current on a new ECM is the crank relearn code which is P0315.

We are going to re-examine the intake tune again and see if there are any other areas we can squeak more out but more air = more fuel needed to create the same mixture and the Roto-Fab does flow that much better.

You should still see at LEAST 1 MPG out of it, but its hard to quantify unless its the same gas same day ect but most end users of JUST the tune report right around ~3.

It may have DTC's since it was bench programmed out of a car, they would be in the history not current. The only thing that should be current on a new ECM is the crank relearn code which is P0315.

We are going to re-examine the intake tune again and see if there are any other areas we can squeak more out but more air = more fuel needed to create the same mixture and the Roto-Fab does flow that much better.

You should still see at LEAST 1 MPG out of it, but its hard to quantify unless its the same gas same day ect but most end users of JUST the tune report right around ~3.

that makes very little sense to me! your post seems kinda vague!!?? With a CAI I would have thought i woud see more MPG???
you guys quote 3 mpg gain... are you telling me that with the new era CAI I get 2mpg less.....???? That makes no sense!! A major reason I got this was for the MPG gain.... Everything I have learned tells me they are very similar in performance (NE and Rotofab). Any CAI on a motor reports MPG gains!!

kinda weirded out by that response......

Any remark to the re-learn experience...??

Just my theory here, but a CAI on a stock tune leans out the already fat mix from the factory. Hence the more efficient burn and more power and mileage. With a VMS tune, the AF ratio is already leaned out and balanced. When you add a CAI to that tune, it leans it out even more and the fuel management has to make up for so much more air coming through on a lean mix to begin with. So more fuel is pumped in, but its still an improvement over stock. If I am wrong about this, I am guessing someone will surely let me know, but its just what I thought was going on.

Just my theory here, but a CAI on a stock tune leans out the already fat mix from the factory. Hence the more efficient burn and more power and mileage. With a VMS tune, the AF ratio is already leaned out and balanced. When you add a CAI to that tune, it leans it out even more and the fuel management has to make up for so much more air coming through on a lean mix to begin with. So more fuel is pumped in, but its still an improvement over stock. If I am wrong about this, I am guessing someone will surely let me know, but its just what I thought was going on.

but less 2mpg?????
That sucks....
I really want to know if the re-learn made any difference???

i would think just the CAI should/would produce about 1 more mpg since its better air flow and less restrictions. I dont want any tune that forces me to use Premium. Cant they tune the ECM or make a seperate one for those who want to run regular? Anything to get more MPG is huge

i would think just the CAI should/would produce about 1 more mpg since its better air flow and less restrictions. I dont want any tune that forces me to use Premium. Cant they tune the ECM or make a seperate one for those who want to run regular? Anything to get more MPG is huge

But you wouldnt get any more MPG out of an 87 tune, hence why they are all 91/93. Thats the whole point the offset in fuel cost is more than made up with the economy.

I'm always confused by posts like this. Trust me, I would love to get better MPG in any vehicle I own, but the truth is, performance always comes first (for me). So I guess you just need to decide which is more important to you - economy or perf. then make your decision. Or in some cases (VMS tune), you might be able to have both.

i would think just the CAI should/would produce about 1 more mpg since its better air flow and less restrictions. I dont want any tune that forces me to use Premium. Cant they tune the ECM or make a seperate one for those who want to run regular? Anything to get more MPG is huge

If you really wanted economy, you should've gone with a Honda FIT. This car is about as good as it gets as far as almost 400BHP and still able to get into the mid 20s for MPG's.

IIRC, someone on LS1Tech tuned a G8 on regular and still got almost 30 more HP and 3 more mpg out of it. Or did I dream that?

If you really wanted economy, you should've gone with a Honda FIT. This car is about as good as it gets as far as almost 400BHP and still able to get into the mid 20s for MPG's.

so WTF am I getting 14.5...??? Granted i am driving with a heavier foot to test the performance increase (which I need to go back to the stock ECm to make sure I can feel the difference) but they never told me that I would get less mpg if I had a CAI!!!! Thats not cool.

Its becoming aparent that I am back to where I was for MPG even after the re-learn... so that sux.... I just really find it hard to believe that with only a 10hp gain (please correct me on that; I want to know the accurate #'s) it reduces the gain the tune is supposed to give.

I want to hear form others that have both

Thanks guys.

If you really wanted economy, you should've gone with a Honda FIT. This car is about as good as it gets as far as almost 400BHP and still able to get into the mid 20s for MPG's.

Cause I want the car to get decent gas mileage, I should go buy a Honda FIT? Not everyone wants to turn this car into a drag car. Some ppl are using as a daily driver putting on 400 miles a week and would like a nice car with power and some decent gas mileage. So I am happy with my car and enjoyin every minute of it. But whats the big deal with wanting to get more MPG? Never knew trying to get more MPG's was a bad thing. I guess I should crash the car, collect insurance money, and buy a Toyota Prius according to your theory

[QUOTE=Ausstar;47242]so WTF am I getting 14.5...??? Granted i am driving with a heavier foot to test the performance increase QUOTE]

Ya think? :rolleyes: It doesn't take much of a heavy foot to shoot gas mileage all to hell. I've seen about 2.5 mpg increase after the tune on 92 octane, but I can push that down to 14 mpg in a heart beat just by pushing it a bit.

so WTF am I getting 14.5...??? Granted i am driving with a heavier foot to test the performance increase (which I need to go back to the stock ECm to make sure I can feel the difference) but they never told me that I would get less mpg if I had a CAI!!!! Thats not cool.

Its becoming aparent that I am back to where I was for MPG even after the re-learn... so that sux.... I just really find it hard to believe that with only a 10hp gain (please correct me on that; I want to know the accurate #'s) it reduces the gain the tune is supposed to give.

I want to hear form others that have both

Thanks guys.

Where and how are you driving it? I've had mine down to 11 mpg. But I was driving around town all weekend, and hitting the throttle some. I've also had it to 26 and mine hasn't been tuned. It helps also to realize that no two cars are completely the same.

If VMS did the tune for me at the shop, there is no need to do any relearn or anything like that, correct?

I'm still not seeing a big increase in fuel mileage (if any), ill probably have to fill up again sometime this week, so ill reset then and post the results.

Looks like i got a bad batch of gas. I was filling up with BP Ultimate, i've since switched to Shell V-Power on recommendation by GM (top tier gas) and my average mileage with tune and CAI is now up over 22mpg (i drive about 7 city and 6 highway miles to work everyday - readout is currently at 22.4).

Just my theory here, but a CAI on a stock tune leans out the already fat mix from the factory

This is not always true. My roto-fab made my car 1pt richer from 11:1 to 10:1. VMS said theirs went leaner but the developer said his went richer. Makes you wonder, why everyone is getting different results.

This is not always true. My roto-fab made my car 1pt richer from 11:1 to 10:1. VMS said theirs went leaner but the developer said his went richer. Makes you wonder, why everyone is getting different results.

My guess is it has something to do with climate. I live in MS so you can't step outside on a hot summers day without immediately looking like you have been sitting in a steam bath. I have never been to AZ but family have been and said it was hot, but dry hot. So maybe you aren't having to fight humidity so that dryer air would be a better catalyst??:dunno:

I have never been to AZ but family have been and said it was hot, but dry hot. So maybe you aren't having to fight humidity so that dryer air would be a better catalyst??

Lack of humidity makes it richer?? I am from Louisiana and been in humidity all of my life. Sure can breath easier in the humidity. Sucks either way though, 117* no humidity and 100* 100% humidity!!!!!!!!

I built my own intake and used the stolen H-pipe and my last two fill ups have shown I'm getting between 19-20 mpg. My best results have been 20.6, mostly highway driving, probably about 70%. I have a pretty heavy foot and I love to drive hard when I get a chance. I would think my intake would be simular to the New Era that Mike builds. I think mine has definetly picked up mpg and hp. I'm partial to the new era and the one that I built from the spectre modular kit. I like it tucked in down low. They all look good and probably are very simular in performance. I'd planned to have mine on the dyno a couple weeks back, but, just didn't get to have it done, hopefully in the near future.http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/3049000-3049999/3049754_38.jpg

Lack of humidity makes it richer?? I am from Louisiana and been in humidity all of my life. Sure can breath easier in the humidity. Sucks either way though, 117* no humidity and 100* 100% humidity!!!!!!!!

LOL, beats me, I hear that from the factory they are tuned to be able to run everywhere regardless of climate, but maybe it does have an effect.

And thankfully, it has only gotten into the low 90's here so far this year. Its actually been an unusually cool start of the summer for us. Must be the global warming thing right? :wink2:

I only run the 89 octane, its 10% alky and its always 20 cents cheaper then the 91-92 octane. I live in Missouri and its hot and humid.

Must be the global warming thing right?

Yea, I just came off my 1st road trip in the G8 yesterday. Here in Phoenix last mon/tues was 110* both days, wed 105*, thur 88* and rain, friday driving through the mountains in Arizona we hit a friggin snow storm between Payson and Heber. Had to be at least 3-4" on the side of the road. Even got out and took some pics. Gauge in the car showed 32*. Unreal for the end of May. Yes, I would love to kick Al Gore right in the head!!!

http://members.cox.net/adtke1/IMGP9204.JPG

Yea, I just came off my 1st road trip in the G8 yesterday. Here in Phoenix last mon/tues was 110* both days, wed 105*, thur 88* and rain, friday driving through the mountains in Arizona we hit a friggin snow storm between Payson and Heber. Had to be at least 3-4" on the side of the road. Even got out and took some pics. Gauge in the car showed 32*. Unreal for the end of May. Yes, I would love to kick Al Gore right in the head!!!

http://members.cox.net/adtke1/IMGP9204.JPG
Ditto.Its been way below normal here. Tomorrows forcasted high..50 w/scattred frost @ nite Go figure. We have plenty of trees here for big AL to hug..

I need to make a comment on your post regarding fuel mileage and air filtration.
1. fuel mileage. If you are going by the stupid little indicator on your dash that says you are getting XXmpg, you are mistaken. Those read-outs are for laughs. My wifes BMW says she averaged 34 MPG! Ya right! If you want an accurate mileage calculation you must first:
a. Choose the same gas station and pump if possible. A better reading is obtained after at least three fill-ups. Later, try another station and compare the findings to see if one brand gets better mileage than the other.
b. Put your vehicles trip odometer to zero.
c. Set the auto-stop lever on the gas pump trigger. The pump stops filling when the tank is full. You don't need to write how many gallons you purchased for your first time.
d. Drive until you need to fill up the tank again. Look at the odometer reading and write the number into your notebook
e. Fill up the tank as usual with the automatic shut off in place. Write down the total amount of gallons needed to fill up
f. Figure the numbers. Take the odometer reading and divide by the gallons you just purchased. The result is your miles per gallon. Example, you drove 100 miles and bought 10 gallons of gas. Divide 10 into 100 which equals 10 miles per gallon.

The above calculations is the best way to determine your overall fuel consumption/MPG

2. Air Filtration,
I see some are confused as to what happens when you install an after market air filter system, aka CIA/roto-fab. Your car has a computer and the computer figures out through the many sensors, OxS, MAF sensor, the air inlet temp/amount of air, how fast the air is traveling and a few other sensors. The computer calculates all this and determines the best AFR (air fuel ratio) for that day/driving style all in seconds and continues to make adjustments every second, in milliseconds.
So when you install a better quality air filter, the computer knows that more air or less air is entering the intake and makes the adjustment for how much fuel the injectors need to give you for that optimum 14.7-1 ratio.

If you are getting worse fuel mileage after installing something after market, you need to recheck all your connections, check for DTC's, fix if any and get an accurate MPG data using the above mentioned formula to see if your MPG has in fact increased/decreased.

If your mileage decreases, some things to consider....has your driving habit changed? Are you driving more? trunk empty..no concrete blocks back there? tire pressure accurate? Anyway, you get the idea.

Hope this long read helps!

fuel mileage. If you are going by the stupid little indicator on your dash that says you are getting XXmpg, you are mistaken. Those read-outs are for laughs. My wifes BMW says she averaged 34 MPG! Ya right! If you want an accurate mileage calculation you must first:

Not True. I just came off of a road trip and have found it to be very accurate. I left Phoenix AZ, recorded mileage, drove to Heber AZ(approx 120+ miles) and the DIC said I averaged 20.2 mpg. My calculations was 20.3. 2nd leg was from Heber to Farmington NM. When we first arrived in Farmington, DIC indicated 25mpg which would be correct due to less mountain climbing. But I didnt fill up, I wanted to drive around the city alot to see if it throw the numbers off. City driving brought it down to 22.3 mpg on the DIC. I filled up and it was dead nuts on. Granted, not the same gas stations or pump calibrations but you will not get that unless it is in a LAB!!!!! On the ride back, pretty damn accurate. Biggest difference between DIC and my calculations was .8mpg. Crap, at one point on the way back since it is all downhill, it was registering 27.5mpg. I bet if I had pulled over and filled up right there and then, it would have been accurate.

I too was a dis-believer until I tested the system out.

My DIC calculated avg mileage has been within .2 mpg each time I checked it. I have a log for my fuel mileage since I'm reimbursed for miles driven.
I also reset it every time I fill up.

My DIC calculated avg mileage has been within .2 mpg each time I checked it. I have a log for my fuel mileage since I'm reimbursed for miles driven.
I also reset it every time I fill up.

:iagree:

Held true for many entire tankfuls from Tucson, AZ to Glens Falls, NY. It's always within .2 mpg for me.:driving:

same here, its been pretty accurate so far. of course it has to have some miles on the trip, because it fluctuates a great deal when its freshly reset. but by the time i need to put more pushwater in, it is just about dead on.

I took a 600 mile road trip this weekend. DC to Morgantown WV via I-270 and I-68 then I-79 to west central PA. The roads were very hilly and the tranny had to downshift on many hills, even in cruise control mode. On this portion of the trip i got in the upper-23 to lower-24 mpg. I was set for about 5-8mph over the speed limit ( speed limit was 65-70 with some areas 55). The return trip was across south central PA to Altoona. Speeds were a little lower but the hills were as bad. On this section I got mid-25 mpg. If the routes had been flatter I'm sure i would have gotten better.

Thats good mileage for that terrain.
I'll be getting my tune on the 10th of June. Still undecided on 91 or 93.

the DIC is very accurate. I have hadnot problems with it and am used to how it works from my Monaro.

I am still getting 14.2 around town. I usually drive pretty much the same everywhere I go. My area has predictable traffic patterns. I dont mess around but liek I said before I see enough open road for the AFM to kick on... I have been driving less hard recently and still getting around 15 at best. The MPG has not really changed which is frustrating... ! Have nto heard from Chris yet here !! Thats is weird too.
:secret::banghead:

Yea, I just came off my 1st road trip in the G8 yesterday. Here in Phoenix last mon/tues was 110* both days, wed 105*, thur 88* and rain, friday driving through the mountains in Arizona we hit a friggin snow storm between Payson and Heber. Had to be at least 3-4" on the side of the road. Even got out and took some pics. Gauge in the car showed 32*. Unreal for the end of May. Yes, I would love to kick Al Gore right in the head!!!

http://members.cox.net/adtke1/IMGP9204.JPG

not trying to start anything here but I must correct you on your Gore comments. What he predicted was heavy changes in weather patterns. What you are experienceing is proving him right. If you research his work you'll see what i mean. Everyone thinks that when its abnormally cool, Gore is wrong!!

Last week we had 110 on Monday which was a record high for the desert at this time of year, then on Wednesday it was 65, Thursday saw a TORNADO WHICH FLIPPED 2 CARS ON I10 AND SNOW FALLING THROUGH THE PASS. That was amazing and unheard of. Nothing has ever happened like that before out here at all!!!!!

that radical change is exactly what Gore was talking about.

Thats another case all together though.

Your right, lets not start anything since Mr. Al Gore is NOT a scientist and never will be. Lets not try and judge what the earth and its climate is up too. Earth has been around for billions of years and we are nothing more than an insignificant stain on the face of this earth. No one will ever be able to convince me of his dribble. Sad that others do. We havent treated the earth as well as we probably should have but we havent destroyed it either. I believe the big bright light up in the sky controls the weather more than all of us on earth put together.

I would not call an extreme cold front coming out of the Artic straight down the western side of California a Heavy change in weather patterns. If it continued to snow all summer, that would be a heavy change. BTW, did you know that California has had 303 Tornado's from 1950 to 2004? Now lets look at the Al Gore team of scientists for weather patterns after Hurricane Katrina in 2005. They Jumped on the bandwagon and said 06 was going to be even worse, but what happened. NOTHING. 07 was also a miserable year for Hurricanes in the USA. My meaningless point is that Al Gore is an IDIOT in my mind and it is a SAD world we live in when they give that Dumb SOB a Nobel peace prize. Now we have another idiot named Prince Charles telling us we have 18months to turn the climate around or else. Stupid is obviously contagious around the world.

Anyway, enough of my Anti-Al Gore Global Warming soapbox. Although I do think about Al Gore everytime I do a burnout in one of my cars. :gears:

Now back on topic; I do enjoy my G8 and its carbon footprint!

not trying to start anything here but I must correct you on your Gore comments. What he predicted was heavy changes in weather patterns. What you are experienceing is proving him right. If you research his work you'll see what i mean. Everyone thinks that when its abnormally cool, Gore is wrong!!

Last week we had 110 on Monday which was a record high for the desert at this time of year, then on Wednesday it was 65, Thursday saw a TORNADO WHICH FLIPPED 2 CARS ON I10 AND SNOW FALLING THROUGH THE PASS. That was amazing and unheard of. Nothing has ever happened like that before out here at all!!!!!

that radical change is exactly what Gore was talking about.

Thats another case all together though.

The only thing Mr Gore proved is that the climate is chaotic and unpredictable.

the climate is chaotic and unpredictable.

That's how it always is here in Buffalo, We didn't need AL to tell us that.

BUMP for more TUNE results

I took a 600 mile road trip this weekend. DC to Morgantown WV via I-270 and I-68 then I-79 to west central PA. The roads were very hilly and the tranny had to downshift on many hills, even in cruise control mode. On this portion of the trip i got in the upper-23 to lower-24 mpg. I was set for about 5-8mph over the speed limit ( speed limit was 65-70 with some areas 55). The return trip was across south central PA to Altoona. Speeds were a little lower but the hills were as bad. On this section I got mid-25 mpg. If the routes had been flatter I'm sure i would have gotten better.

Around town, back and forth to work, etc., if i drive like a sane person, I'm getting low 15 to mid 16 averages after my Vector 93/Roto-Fab tune.

Didn't he invent the internet? ;) J/K

So, I never really got a chance to see how the car averaged on a day-to-day basis BEFORE the tune (tune done with 350 miles on it). But, I just let the trip go for a few tanks now, and I think at just over 1,200 miles on the trip, I'm getting 18.8MPG @ 37.8MPH. It's a pretty good mix of highway and city. Tank-to-tank, I was getting anywhere from 17.9 to 19.4. Keeping in mind, my first 300 miles were almost all highway, and I only averaged 19.6MPGs. I'm pretty confident I'm seeing a good 2MPGs improvement in overall driving. Probably closer to 3MPGs on highway only.

Didn't he invent the internet? J/K

I hear he is also the driving force behind VMS's Tune for better mpg!!:drink:

Probably closer to 3MPGs on highway only.

So what is the best you have seen purely straight highway driving??

Your right, lets not start anything since Mr. Al Gore is NOT a scientist and never will be. Lets not try and judge what the earth and its climate is up too. Earth has been around for billions of years and we are nothing more than an insignificant stain on the face of this earth. No one will ever be able to convince me of his dribble. Sad that others do. We havent treated the earth as well as we probably should have but we havent destroyed it either. I believe the big bright light up in the sky controls the weather more than all of us on earth put together.

I would not call an extreme cold front coming out of the Artic straight down the western side of California a Heavy change in weather patterns. If it continued to snow all summer, that would be a heavy change. BTW, did you know that California has had 303 Tornado's from 1950 to 2004? Now lets look at the Al Gore team of scientists for weather patterns after Hurricane Katrina in 2005. They Jumped on the bandwagon and said 06 was going to be even worse, but what happened. NOTHING. 07 was also a miserable year for Hurricanes in the USA. My meaningless point is that Al Gore is an IDIOT in my mind and it is a SAD world we live in when they give that Dumb SOB a Nobel peace prize. Now we have another idiot named Prince Charles telling us we have 18months to turn the climate around or else. Stupid is obviously contagious around the world.

Anyway, enough of my Anti-Al Gore Global Warming soapbox. Although I do think about Al Gore everytime I do a burnout in one of my cars. :gears:

Now back on topic; I do enjoy my G8 and its carbon footprint!


wow... you can feel the heat from your words!! You're obvioulsy getting warmer! :shiner::whine:

out of all the scientists that have analysed his findings not one disagrees!!!!!!!! Whats your take on that???
All he did was to go and find out all the fatcs and then post them. you can not argue with those facts. there's been a lot that has changed for the worse over the last 30 years that does not fall into pattern with the previous thousands!!

And dont get all worked up mate... al this is, is fun. In the end I repsect your POV as I would expect you would mine. But dont spend all that time writing about what you see on the news when you really dont have a clue!!!!! What I mean by that is time will tell. None of us really have a clue what will happen. But the gov is finally taking precautions to clean up our planet so if it works we will never know if Al was right!!

What you cant disagree with is that its the right thing to do!!! We have been careless and mistreated our home. Oil is not the only option!!

No offense to you at all "mate". I just hate Al Gore, lol. Time will truely tell in the end, you are correct. No we havent treated our home properly but nor do I believe we have been put on the path of destruction either. I am sure there is a big rock in the heavens waiting to do that for us. Where there are believers, will always be dis-believers.

wow... you can feel the heat from your words!! You're obvioulsy getting warmer! :shiner::whine:

out of all the scientists that have analysed his findings not one disagrees!!!!!!!! Whats your take on that???
All he did was to go and find out all the fatcs and then post them. you can not argue with those facts. there's been a lot that has changed for the worse over the last 30 years that does not fall into pattern with the previous thousands!!

And dont get all worked up mate... al this is, is fun. In the end I repsect your POV as I would expect you would mine. But dont spend all that time writing about what you see on the news when you really dont have a clue!!!!! What I mean by that is time will tell. None of us really have a clue what will happen. But the gov is finally taking precautions to clean up our planet so if it works we will never know if Al was right!!

What you cant disagree with is that its the right thing to do!!! We have been careless and mistreated our home. Oil is not the only option!!

Socialism by any other name...



www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/29/AR2008052903266_pf.html


Carbon Chastity
The First Commandment of the Church of the Environment

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, May 30, 2008; A13

I'm not a global warming believer. I'm not a global warming denier. I'm a global warming agnostic who believes instinctively that it can't be very good to pump lots of CO2into the atmosphere but is equally convinced that those who presume to know exactly where that leads are talking through their hats.

Predictions of catastrophe depend on models. Models depend on assumptions about complex planetary systems -- from ocean currents to cloud formation -- that no one fully understands. Which is why the models are inherently flawed and forever changing. The doomsday scenarios posit a cascade of events, each with a certain probability. The multiple improbability of their simultaneous occurrence renders all such predictions entirely speculative.

Yet on the basis of this speculation, environmental activists, attended by compliant scientists and opportunistic politicians, are advocating radical economic and social regulation. "The largest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy and prosperity," warns Czech President Vaclav Klaus, "is no longer socialism. It is, instead, the ambitious, arrogant, unscrupulous ideology of environmentalism."

If you doubt the arrogance, you haven't seen that Newsweek cover story that declared the global warming debate over. Consider: If Newton's laws of motion could, after 200 years of unfailing experimental and experiential confirmation, be overthrown, it requires religious fervor to believe that global warming -- infinitely more untested, complex and speculative -- is a closed issue.

But declaring it closed has its rewards. It not only dismisses skeptics as the running dogs of reaction, i.e., of Exxon, Cheney and now Klaus. By fiat, it also hugely re-empowers the intellectual left.

For a century, an ambitious, arrogant, unscrupulous knowledge class -- social planners, scientists, intellectuals, experts and their left-wing political allies -- arrogated to themselves the right to rule either in the name of the oppressed working class (communism) or, in its more benign form, by virtue of their superior expertise in achieving the highest social progress by means of state planning (socialism).

Two decades ago, however, socialism and communism died rudely, then were buried forever by the empirical demonstration of the superiority of market capitalism everywhere from Thatcher's England to Deng's China, where just the partial abolition of socialism lifted more people out of poverty more rapidly than ever in human history.

Just as the ash heap of history beckoned, the intellectual left was handed the ultimate salvation: environmentalism. Now the experts will regulate your life not in the name of the proletariat or Fabian socialism but -- even better -- in the name of Earth itself.

Environmentalists are Gaia's priests, instructing us in her proper service and casting out those who refuse to genuflect. (See Newsweek above.) And having proclaimed the ultimate commandment -- carbon chastity -- they are preparing the supporting canonical legislation that will tell you how much you can travel, what kind of light you will read by, and at what temperature you may set your bedroom thermostat.

Only Monday, a British parliamentary committee proposed that every citizen be required to carry a carbon card that must be presented, under penalty of law, when buying gasoline, taking an airplane or using electricity. The card contains your yearly carbon ration to be drawn down with every purchase, every trip, every swipe.

There's no greater social power than the power to ration. And, other than rationing food, there is no greater instrument of social control than rationing energy, the currency of just about everything one does and uses in an advanced society.

So what does the global warming agnostic propose as an alternative? First, more research -- untainted and reliable -- to determine (a) whether the carbon footprint of man is or is not lost among the massive natural forces (from sunspot activity to ocean currents) that affect climate, and (b) if the human effect is indeed significant, whether the planetary climate system has the homeostatic mechanisms (like the feedback loops in the human body, for example) with which to compensate.

Second, reduce our carbon footprint in the interim by doing the doable, rather than the economically ruinous and socially destructive. The most obvious step is a major move to nuclear power, which to the atmosphere is the cleanest of the clean.

But your would-be masters have foreseen this contingency. The Church of the Environment promulgates secondary dogmas as well. One of these is a strict nuclear taboo.

Rather convenient, is it not? Take this major coal-substituting fix off the table, and we will be rationing all the more. Guess who does the rationing.

letters@charleskrauthammer.com

Did I hear somebody say "Thread hi-jack"?

Very good read. Just since you mentioned sunspots;

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime-images.html

Hasnt been any sunspot activity for a while. I remember as a kid looking through a telescope in the 1980's while I lived in England, there would be 5-7 large sunspots across the visible surface. Havent seen any in awhile. That bright object has a hell of alot to do with our way of life.


Only Monday, a British parliamentary committee proposed that every citizen be required to carry a carbon card that must be presented, under penalty of law, when buying gasoline, taking an airplane or using electricity. The card contains your yearly carbon ration to be drawn down with every purchase, every trip, every swipe.

Awefully scary the way the world is going due to this hysteria!!!!!!!