I moved my report from another thread where it might be hard to find using search to this to make it easier to find. i hope nobody minds.

WAHOOOOOOOO!!!

Don't believe all the good stuff Pedders says about their SYSTEM. It is not accurate. Their system is even BETTER than they say. No BS.

Frank and Walt (Rocksand Racing, LLC)and Brandon (Pedders USA) installed most of the Track II system Saturday. The bars are on order but didn't come in in time but I didn't want to wait so they installed everything but the bars and 2 bushings that are best installed at the same time as the front bar.

The install was very clean. These guys know their business and treated my car like it was their own (maybe better!). They are true "gearheads".

It was amazing to feel the difference in the car. I love my G8 but the Track II made it much more responsive. Steering was precise and nearly instantaneous. One of the most remarkable improvements was the feedback of the road we got. You felt like you knew what the chassis, steering and tires were doing at all times.

That irritating step-out from the rear end in a less than perfect curve is gone-completely gone. I tried to upset it and I could not do it.

I good friend of mine, Clif, joined us. He has a lot of road course time and drove the G8 before and after the install. He also felt the car was much better behaved, provided much more feedback, was more composed and almost felt, in his words, "flick able", something he felt was totally unexpected in a 4000 pound, 4-door sedan.

We noticed that in some acceleration runs, the shifts felt better. When we asked about it, Frank shared with us that the differential was held in place by new bushings that controlled its movement much better than stock.

The stance is, IMO, perfect. The ride height with my 19s is within a mm of the ones listed in Pedders install photos.
I'll post a photo shortly.


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-11/65524/BWHXN-48553417-pedder-g8-1.JPG

Lastly, I have to tell anybody thinking about this mod that you have to drive one to really know what it is like. I cannot tell you how it feels anymore than I can get the grin off my face from my 4 hour drive home.

Drive home! Damn, almost forgot, I was really concerned about the ride quality. I don't want a buckboard or a go-cart. After spending 4 hours driving it in PA, NJ and I-95 to VA I can tell you it is totally refined. It is firm but not harsh. You feel more of the road. You feel the kind of feedback you need to feel if you want to enjoy the potential of the G8. You also will feel more of the bumps and ripples in the road but they were never harsh or jolting or uncomfortable. They were just there and part of driving what I feel is now a much more refined sport sedan.

I had a 2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G before the G8. I replaced the stock Comp G struts with GXP Bilstiens and while firmer they provided a better, less hash ride. Coupled with Eibach Sport springs they lowered the GP and made a dramatic improvement in the GPs ride and handling. I thought I had found Pontiac sport sedan heaven, that was until my Pedderized G8. Their system of bushes, struts, shocks and springs far outperform, in every thinkable way, the collection of parts I put on my GP.

I have photos of the install process and will post an album page link shortly.

And, BTW, neither Pedders, nor Pete, nor Frank nor anybody else suggested, asked or told me to say. Other than buying their parts, and the friendships I made this weekend, I have no relationship with Pedders. They asked me to post my honest impressions, good or bad and that is what I have done.

Was I totally happy about everything? Almost. I was disappointed that the bars didn't come so they could be installed at the same time as the rest of the kit. Frank and crew had no control over this and I wanted to install the rest of the kit anyway because the part of the kit that was installed gives you 90% of the benefit. After feeling the results I'm doubly glad I didn't wait. On the bright side, I'll be able to evaluate the car without the bars and then see the difference the bigger, adjustable bars make once they go in. Plus, it will give me a reason to go back up and spend some time with some very great guys.

I will be at the GM Nationals in Carlisle PA on the 21st of June with the Capitol City GTOs on the Show field near the Pontiac pavilion. If you can make it and have questions, please look me up.


PS, RED888, you were right on the mark. It is EVERYTHING you said it would be. Thanks for the nudge to get it done. I owe you a beer. Thanks.

What was your total cost involved with what you had donefrom Pedders?

I'm interested, once you get the sways, how much the body lean goes away. Or even if it went away with what you have now. The car is very "capable", but it doesn't give you that impressive with how much it leans over.

What was your total cost involved with what you had donefrom Pedders?

The cost of the Track II system is on the Pedders site. in round numbers I think it is about $3100. Labor to install seems to very by location and local labor rates, I think. Rather than scare you off or disappoint, it would be best to e-mail a pedders dealer in your area to get a realistic price. I've seen labor posts ranging from $900 to $2000 but you don't know what exact pieces the posters had installed.

I'm interested, once you get the sways, how much the body lean goes away. Or even if it went away with what you have now. The car is very "capable", but it doesn't give you that impressive with how much it leans over.

The lower body and new springs and dampers reduced the lean. It is a little had to say how much because the new bushes really remove the movement between the chassis and rear sub-frame. In terms of bang for the buck, the Pedders bush kit, I think ithey t called Street I, is a major contributor to the secure feeling in the car. The G8 chassis is very rigid and the sub-frame is solitd and stiff too. The bushes used to tied the 2 together are biased way too much, IMO, toward a cushy ride and they let the rear sub-frame move relative to the chassis when you load it up laterially. It is what causes the step-out in the rear during course corrections or that less-than-confidence-inspiring feeling that it is about to step out.

If you want to improve the feel and responsiveness of your G8 without lowering or spending much money, think about having the sub-frame bushing kit installed. You can always go back later, if you want, and add other pieces, in steps, until you reach your individual satisfaction point. I think that kit is $500 or $600 plus install.

Ed at work.....

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p310/rocksandracing/DSC01569.jpg

Us at work
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p310/rocksandracing/DSC01565.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p310/rocksandracing/DSC01576.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p310/rocksandracing/DSC01567.jpg

I really broke out in a sweat taking all those photos, unlike some guys that worked on my car. :)

I gotta do something about the exhaust! Look at the size of those cans. Not that I lifted it or anything but it must weigh a ton judging by what I saw, in a supervisory role, as the Pedders guys removed it.

Seriously, the first photo isone Frank took of me taking a photo of the sub-frame bushing insets.

In the second photo, the guy you can't see on the passenger side is Brandon and the other guy you can't see is Walt. Frank is not in the photo because he was busy giving me lessons on how to be an effective supervisor, a role at which he seems to excel.

The third photo centers on one top and one bottom bushing insert in the rear sub-frame. There are 4 sets of these.

The lower body and new springs and dampers reduced the lean. It is a little had to say how much because the new bushes really remove the movement between the chassis and rear sub-frame. In terms of bang for the buck, the Pedders bush kit, I think ithey t called Street I, is a major contributor to the secure feeling in the car. The G8 chassis is very rigid and the sub-frame is solitd and stiff too. The bushes used to tied the 2 together are biased way too much, IMO, toward a cushy ride and they let the rear sub-frame move relative to the chassis when you load it up laterially. It is what causes the step-out in the rear during course corrections or that less-than-confidence-inspiring feeling that it is about to step out.

If you want to improve the feel and responsiveness of your G8 without lowering or spending much money, think about having the sub-frame bushing kit installed. You can always go back later, if you want, and add other pieces, in steps, until you reach your individual satisfaction point. I think that kit is $500 or $600 plus install.

Thanks for the info. I'd be curious to hear from Pedders, as to whether they think the bushing kit will make this big of a difference. I'm not scared of the labor cost (I know people who know people), but $3100 is a tad on the steep side, without knowing more about the setup... like spring rates and such. I trust that you like it, but "feel" is a personal thing, and spring rates versus body weight gives a good indicator on ride quality.

Here is an evaluation Pete did of the G8.
http://forums.peddersusa.com/showthread.php?t=324

The cost of the Track II system is on the Pedders site.

I cant find the G8 anywhere on their site.

Edit: nevermind I was on the AU site.

Thanks for the info. I'd be curious to hear from Pedders, as to whether they think the bushing kit will make this big of a difference. I'm not scared of the labor cost (I know people who know people), but $3100 is a tad on the steep side, without knowing more about the setup... like spring rates and such. I trust that you like it, but "feel" is a personal thing, and spring rates versus body weight gives a good indicator on ride quality.

Good luck.

I'm interested, once you get the sways, how much the body lean goes away. Or even if it went away with what you have now. The car is very "capable", but it doesn't give you that impressive with how much it leans over.

With the testing we have done, the sway bars will remove approx 25%of the lean, the system removes another 25% of the lean, and if you go with the Extreme package, take another 25% of the role away.

mike
dms

Thanks for the info. I'd be curious to hear from Pedders, as to whether they think the bushing kit will make this big of a difference. I'm not scared of the labor cost (I know people who know people), but $3100 is a tad on the steep side, without knowing more about the setup... like spring rates and such. I trust that you like it, but "feel" is a personal thing, and spring rates versus body weight gives a good indicator on ride quality.

A comparative measurement I just did is as follows:
Test: 2 lane road with painted /broken white lines that you can see for some distance and with no oncoming traffic. Take the steering wheel and turn in left and right as hard and fast as you can 90 degrees from center. here are the results:
1. OEM suspension: at the 35 mph range, I was turning back, but the body was still moving in the opposite direction. Tires started to squeel, so I stopped the test so I do nothing to the tires
2. TrackII less sway bars:: this test allowed me to get to 60mph with no tire squeel of any kind. Traction control in the rear kicked on which stopped the test. This is the 2nd G8 I ahve done for this test and the results were the same. I did not do the before test on the first G8.
3. Still have not figured out how to do a video of it due to the movement is so severe. Also the G8s were both GTs with 19 inch wheels

increased spring and shock rates, and critical bushes made the diference. The biggest non compliant bushes in the G8 are the rear xmember bushes. You can feel the back end stepping ut due to the xmember bushes being soft.

this test is totally duplicatable. You just need to do it ina safe area. I am looking forward doing the same test with sway bars!!

Hope this helps

mike
dms

Any idea on sway bar availability?

Any idea on sway bar availability?

we are probablay 30 to 60 days out. I think they are on he boat

mike
dms

How much of that icky grease did they use? That stuff is a mess.

A comparative measurement I just did is as follows:
Test: 2 lane road with painted /broken white lines that you can see for some distance and with no oncoming traffic. Take the steering wheel and turn in left and right as hard and fast as you can 90 degrees from center. here are the results:
1. OEM suspension: at the 35 mph range, I was turning back, but the body was still moving in the opposite direction. Tires started to squeel, so I stopped the test so I do nothing to the tires
2. TrackII less sway bars:: this test allowed me to get to 60mph with no tire squeel of any kind. Traction control in the rear kicked on which stopped the test. This is the 2nd G8 I ahve done for this test and the results were the same. I did not do the before test on the first G8.
3. Still have not figured out how to do a video of it due to the movement is so severe. Also the G8s were both GTs with 19 inch wheels

increased spring and shock rates, and critical bushes made the diference. The biggest non compliant bushes in the G8 are the rear xmember bushes. You can feel the back end stepping ut due to the xmember bushes being soft.

this test is totally duplicatable. You just need to do it ina safe area. I am looking forward doing the same test with sway bars!!

Hope this helps

mike
dms

Thanks for the info. I'll add the Pedders system to my "list of things to do", once I finish modifying my "fun" car.

Ed,

Thanks again for making the trip to the shop and sweating it out with the rest of us. It was a pleasure meeting you and look forward to seeing you soon for the bars.

Walt

Thanks Walt. The pleasure was all mine. Even in all the heat I had a great time. You did a great job and I really appreciate how you took care of my "baby".

I was very impressed by your GTO.

Are you going to Carlisle? I'll be there on the 21st (Sat).

Ed

Are there any pictures of your car? I would love to see it. Big fan of the black with the 19inch wheels.

Are there any pictures of your car? I would love to see it. Big fan of the black with the 19inch wheels.

Photos here:
http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?p=55946#post55946

I will be in the shop this weekend so I won't be able to make it. Have a great time.

Walt

Any idea on sway bar availability?

Ron , your still waiting on your sway bar and rest of track II parts? Whats going on with this?

Ron , your still waiting on your sway bar and rest of track II parts? Whats going on with this?

Still waiting on Pedders to update me.

It has been about a week and a half, almost 2 weeks since my install and my impressions haveactually gotten even better. now that the suspension has a few miles on it and things seem to have settled in, I think the compliance has actually gotten even better than when first installed. I've had nothing but great things to say about the pedders system but it is very hard to convey how it actually feels.

i suggest to anybody that is not 100% pleased with the feel and handling of the G8 at the limit that you find a dealer with a test car or somebody with the upgrade and feel it for yourself. you will be amazed.

Also, if you are in the northeast or mid-atlantic regions, give Rocksand Racing a try. Very cool guys that know their stuff. They did a super job on my install.

Like others I'm also waiting for the sway bar kits to come to the states. There were only 3 or 4 sets initially available. During one of their installs, Pedders found that Pontiac (or Holden) made a change to the front radius rod or changed suppliers. This resulted in the need to change the bushing for the radius rod as the original design would no longer fit. The bars are on their way and so are the re-designed bushings. When I think about the dramatic improvement the rest of the Track II made, I can't wait to feel the effects of the full Track II system.