So when is someone going to make the hoods actually functional?

Check this out. http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3921
Actually it's a pretty easy fix.

Aside from the fact that Pontiac Engineers said the scoops were in a negative pressure zone, which means it may actually REMOVE air from the engine bay, instead of pushing air in.

So does that mean we would of been better off without them?

Aside from the fact that Pontiac Engineers said the scoops were in a negative pressure zone, which means it may actually REMOVE air from the engine bay, instead of pushing air in.

Once u take it apart u will see that it is not technology at its finest. Once they are modified it allows hot air to escape when sitting and most definately allows air to cool intake manifold. Charlie

Once u take it apart u will see that it is not technology at its finest. Once they are modified it allows hot air to escape when sitting and most definately allows air to cool intake manifold. Charlie

Hot air out at idle, I don't doubt. Cold air IN at speed, who knows. I can't believe there is THAT much of a low pressure zone at those snouts, that it would be less pressure then under the hood at speed, but you never know.

Hot air out at idle, I don't doubt. Cold air IN at speed, who knows. I can't believe there is THAT much of a low pressure zone at those snouts, that it would be less pressure then under the hood at speed, but you never know.

Once you pull the rubber piece out under the hood you will see that there is a plastic piece with tiny holes blocking off the back of the scoop. once it is removed it would have to let air in at speed out at idle. Charlie

Once you pull the rubber piece out under the hood you will see that there is a plastic piece with tiny holes blocking off the back of the scoop. once it is removed it would have to let air in at speed out at idle. Charlie

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, Pontiac Engineers stated that the scoops are at a "negative pressure zone" in the hood, caused by the flow of air over the snout of the car. If that pressure is lower then the pressure under the hood of the car, air will actually flow backwards to what you're thinking. Doesn't quite seem possible, but it is, if they're statements are true.

Even if it is negative pressure, hot air will come out. The intake is sucking from the bottom, not engine compartment, right?

If u have a hole in anything and force air at speed, it has to go THROUGH IT. Considering I used a smoke machine and a hi volume shop fan to test my theory, How did the smoke get in my engine compartment? That is no where near the pressure that would be applied at 60-100mph. This is only done to help cool intake manifold, not air intake and to help relieve under hood temps when parked.

Then why are they really there? Look at the TA the last few years they made them, even the Grand Prix GTX, the "snouts" are in the same spot and they had ram air.

http://www.grandprix.net/images/page4pic1.jpg

http://www.theautolog.com/uploads/badassws6girl/3909/2002-pontiac-trans-am-ws6-2315.jpg

Also thinking more about it, they dont release any hot air or draw hot air out. Why?? They are closed.

There is a company called MPD, Inc that made a nice ram air hood for the GTO, wish they made a new one.

I talked to Eric over at his shop, and he's seen my G8 the 1st week I had it. If anyone can make a hood, it's him.

Pontiac has had scoops for years. For years people have modified them.

If u have a hole in anything and force air at speed, it has to go THROUGH IT. Considering I used a smoke machine and a hi volume shop fan to test my theory, How did the smoke get in my engine compartment? That is no where near the pressure that would be applied at 60-100mph. This is only done to help cool intake manifold, not air intake and to help relieve under hood temps when parked.


That's the info I was looking for... So the rumors of Pontiac Engineers saying that, is wrong. Excellent :)

http://www.theautolog.com/uploads/badassws6girl/3909/2002-pontiac-trans-am-ws6-2315.jpg

Also thinking more about it, they dont release any hot air or draw hot air out. Why?? They are closed.

The trans-am has a snout that better serves for ram air. The G8 has a tall nose, which forces the air up and over the hood. The "vents" on the G8 are purely there for show. The vents on the WS6 were functional (SLP engineered). It was true "ram air". All the other vents have been purely for show. I like the look, but its pretty retarded.

The GTX had an air box connected to it in the hood, how is that not functional?

The Grand Prix GTX is a completely different animal, with a completely different front end on it.

Awaiting more information from those in the know.

sorry to thread jack, but you don't have to cut anything for the "ram air" mod. Just simply take them out, turn them over, pull the hood liner away just a bit on the corners to loosen it, and insert the rubber back between the hood and the hood liner. I'll take some pics and edit to show what I'm talking about.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm227/srg963/P6270052.jpg
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm227/srg963/P6270053.jpg

when the rubber "ring" is on it restricts flow, plus if you have it locked on flush, it effects the flushness of the scoop on the hood. Tried that 1st, Oh I see you just stuffed it between the liner. I believe over time it will not be air tight if it isnt already. Charlie

If u have a hole in anything and force air at speed, it has to go THROUGH IT. Considering I used a smoke machine and a hi volume shop fan to test my theory, How did the smoke get in my engine compartment? That is no where near the pressure that would be applied at 60-100mph. This is only done to help cool intake manifold, not air intake and to help relieve under hood temps when parked.

O.k. I'm supposed to believe your smoke machine and "hi volume shop fan" over GM engineers with a wind tunnel at their disposal? Sorry, but even huge swamp coolers don't come close to supplying the amount of air flow across the ENTIRE front of a car that a wind tunnel does.

That's like trying to pressure wash your car with hand pumped bug sprayer.

Don't knock Charlie....(GRRRR8) he has the fastest G8 around. If he says it works, it works....period. His car is sneaky fast~

Can you really wash your car with a bug sprayer???? Great Idea.....

No. I do not expect u to believe anything.

Come on, someone get creative here. Take out the rubber plug thing, jerry rig something bendable in line of the vent under the hood, put a minature camera in there record the amount of deflection and report back to me. Hurry up you got 5 minutes. NOW!

lol.

O.k. I'm supposed to believe your smoke machine and "hi volume shop fan" over GM engineers with a wind tunnel at their disposal? Sorry, but even huge swamp coolers don't come close to supplying the amount of air flow across the ENTIRE front of a car that a wind tunnel does.

That's like trying to pressure wash your car with hand pumped bug sprayer.

Whats with the sarcasm bro. All he's say'n is his theory should help cool the engine a bit NOT provide an actual forced air intake. Relax, he's just telling us on differnt mods that probably can be done. I thank him for sharing the info and take it for what its worth.

Just curious about Pontiacs Hood design intent.....Supposedly was supposed to help remove hot air?? Well when my car was ran in the 95 degree heat..came off the freeway from a good 30 min drive..than parked in a cooled garage....I went to the hood scoops to see if I could "feel" any heat coming out.....I didnt feel a daym thing....
I am going to try GRRRR8s mod.....
but basically is the "stock" hood....not really functional?

O.k. I'm supposed to believe your smoke machine and "hi volume shop fan" over GM engineers with a wind tunnel at their disposal? Sorry, but even huge swamp coolers don't come close to supplying the amount of air flow across the ENTIRE front of a car that a wind tunnel does.

That's like trying to pressure wash your car with hand pumped bug sprayer.
Why, I think I see the reason you call yourself lonewolfzxxx.

Not many friends, eh? And such a sweet personality too. Try the bug sprayer to flush the stick out of your azz.

:p

Bug Sprayer Works!!!!!!

Now thats what I call respect! Most of you dont know me but see how much time I spend on my car and post every detail to help us all out. Then your feedback allows me to go deeper to keep finding all the free/cheap HP. Many times I have been about to say F__K this web site, but there are SO MANY really good people on here that I did not think it was fair to deprive a few for those that dont appreciate the time it takes not only to do all the work and research, but to post it all and reply. Dear Mr Lonewolf, do you have a G8? Is it faster then mine? Once again thank all of you for having my back. Im working on another trick mod for the intake manifold.

Charlie

Well, I was going to post giving credit for showing more class than the half dozen folks that felt the need to pile on well after I thought we agreed to disagree, but then you post that. Oh well. True colors and all.

As for the lonewolf thing, I'd much rather be a skeptical outsider than running in a pack blindly following whatever direction the leader takes them. Lemmings anyone?

Yes, I do have a G8...#395 of the first 888. I've driven it from one end of this country to the other to the tune of 12,000 miles on the odometer.

I will grant you that yours is probably quicker as you have posted a nice list of legitimate mods. Congrats. I'd love to put that much money into my G8, however, I'm too close to retirement and building my dream home to spend it on a car that's already plenty quick.

However, I will stand by my skepticism of your shop fan wind tunnel as a legitimate means of determining if the hood scoops are in a low pressure area of the hood or not.

Until someone with better resources than that comes forward, I will continue to take the word of the people who designed it and tested it when they say they are in a low pressure area and aren't suitable for ram air purposes.

Have a fine weekend with your flock. I need to go hang out with a few friends at the track once it cools down a bit.

Well, I was going to post giving credit for showing more class than the half dozen folks that felt the need to pile on well after I thought we agreed to disagree, but then you post that. Oh well. True colors and all.

As for the lonewolf thing, I'd much rather be a skeptical outsider than running in a pack blindly following whatever direction the leader takes them. Lemmings anyone?

Yes, I do have a G8...#395 of the first 888. I've driven it from one end of this country to the other to the tune of 12,000 miles on the odometer.

I will grant you that yours is probably quicker as you have posted a nice list of legitimate mods. Congrats. I'd love to put that much money into my G8, however, I'm too close to retirement and building my dream home to spend it on a car that's already plenty quick.

However, I will stand by my skepticism of your shop fan wind tunnel as a legitimate means of determining if the hood scoops are in a low pressure area of the hood or not.

Until someone with better resources than that comes forward, I will continue to take the word of the people who designed it and tested it when they say they are in a low pressure area and aren't suitable for ram air purposes.

Have a fine weekend with your flock. I need to go hang out with a few friends at the track once it cools down a bit.

I agree. I think u could have worded it differently, as well as everyone else could have. I am really the only 1 that gives out info that works that in most cases people can do themselves. I do not need a flock, nor do these people need to be referred to as a flock. Congrats on your dream home and be nice. Charlie

"A dream home is in the eyes of the beholder."
Plato

"A dream home is in the eyes of the beholder."
Plato

Be nice. I do not think it is in a mobile home community. :wink2:

If it's in Tucson, it's probably a damn nice dream home.....

RRM

I just want to restate, I was not making comments to offend or discredit anyone in here. I was just stating what I had read and also some information as I understand it. If it does work, that's awesome.

I just want to restate, I was not making comments to offend or discredit anyone in here. I was just stating what I had read and also some information as I understand it. If it does work, that's awesome.

I read the same thing twice. For what I need it for it works great. If I believed everything I read and everything I heard, I would be struggling to run in the 13s. No offense was taken at all. Once u know me u will realize I am a unique, or as someone else put it "sneaky" car guru. The fact that I have been doing these same types of mods on the big 3 for 20+ years does not in any way mean that I cant be wrong(doubtful or I wouldnt post) or that u or anyone has to believe me. Who had the lowest/fastest IAT drop 1st? I am just trying to help, not demand anything. But I do understand. Charlie

Hello Folks,
I've been reading this thread for a while now and I thought I would shed some light on the topic from my background (Avionics, Air Warfare Specialist, Chief, USN). This is in assumption that the previous post of the low pressure zone on the hood at the point of the scoops is true. As a large volume of air moves around the car the low pressure zone over the scoops should draw out the hot air from the engine. This only happens when the air is moving so you would not notice it parked in a garage. The air would also have to envelope the entire car so I doubt the shop fan would work.

My biggest concern would be ingesting water when it rains if you open the scoops up. Even though air should be moving out of the scoops at speed, the mass of the rain droplets will overcome the exiting air. It's kind of like throwing a baseball into a 30MPH wind.

Hello Folks,
I've been reading this thread for a while now and I thought I would shed some light on the topic from my background (Avionics, Air Warfare Specialist, Chief, USN). This is in assumption that the previous post of the low pressure zone on the hood at the point of the scoops is true. As a large volume of air moves around the car the low pressure zone over the scoops should draw out the hot air from the engine. This only happens when the air is moving so you would not notice it parked in a garage. The air would also have to envelope the entire car so I doubt the shop fan would work.

My biggest concern would be ingesting water when it rains if you open the scoops up. Even though air should be moving out of the scoops at speed, the mass of the rain droplets will overcome the exiting air. It's kind of like throwing a baseball into a 30MPH wind.

For what I was trying to accomplish, it works perfectly with no adverse effects. I have driven in 2 bad rain storms and there is no more water under hood then when it was stock. Thank you and all armed services for what you do everyday. Charlie

If it's in Tucson, it's probably a damn nice dream home.....

RRM

Actually, it'll be in the Adirondack Mountains of NY. I'm trying to get 15-40 acres just east of Lake George and south of Lake Champlain. Lot's of rolling hills for the type of house I'm building (earth sheltered) and the views of the Adirondacks and Green Mountains in VT are awesome.:)

Actually, it'll be in the Adirondack Mountains of NY. I'm trying to get 15-40 acres just east of Lake George and south of Lake Champlain. Lot's of rolling hills for the type of house I'm building (earth sheltered) and the views of the Adirondacks and Green Mountains in VT are awesome.:)

Ive been there! I am from upstate NY and when I was a kid thet is where my parents took us on vacations. There was a wax museum with Marilyn Monoroe in the window and Gaslight village nearby in Lake George. That is a beautiful area.

Looks like everyones happy we all know misunderstandings happen., its hard not to admit at times we can all be skeptical and judgemental..but advice is just advice..take it or leave it...but dont flame..Charlie is a good source on this board..and alot of us appreciate your post and pics...keep em coming..
Its good to see this thread worked out in the end.....lol
:wink2:

Looks like everyones happy we all know misunderstandings happen., its hard not to admit at times we can all be skeptical and judgemental..but advice is just advice..take it or leave it...but dont flame..Charlie is a good source on this board..and alot of us appreciate your post and pics...keep em coming..
Its good to see this thread worked out in the end.....lol
:wink2:

Imagine that guys that dont agree. Never heard of such a thing. lol

Ive been there! I am from upstate NY and when I was a kid thet is where my parents took us on vacations. There was a wax museum with Marilyn Monoroe in the window and Gaslight village nearby in Lake George. That is a beautiful area.

I was born in Ticonderoga and raised in Port Henry on Lake Champlain.

I was just at Lake George for Americade. Lots of beautiful scenery, lots of beautiful bikes and a few beautiful women.:wink2:

The G8 got quite a few thumbs ups from the bikers.:) A few other digits as well when I'd get tired of following a group of them at 5-10 under the speed limit and blow by them.:gr_devil:

I was born in Ticonderoga and raised in Port Henry on Lake Champlain.

I was just at Lake George for Americade. Lots of beautiful scenery, lots of beautiful bikes and a few beautiful women.:wink2:

The G8 got quite a few thumbs ups from the bikers.:) A few other digits as well when I'd get tired of following a group of them at 5-10 under the speed limit and blow by them.:gr_devil:

That is so cool. My parents have pictures at Ft Ticonderoga and Ft William Henry when I was like 7 or 8. As a kid it was like a time warp for me and I loved going there for vacations. Thanks for reminding me of something I had long forgotten. Charlie

Hello Folks,
I've been reading this thread for a while now and I thought I would shed some light on the topic from my background (Avionics, Air Warfare Specialist, Chief, USN). This is in assumption that the previous post of the low pressure zone on the hood at the point of the scoops is true. As a large volume of air moves around the car the low pressure zone over the scoops should draw out the hot air from the engine. This only happens when the air is moving so you would not notice it parked in a garage. The air would also have to envelope the entire car so I doubt the shop fan would work.

My biggest concern would be ingesting water when it rains if you open the scoops up. Even though air should be moving out of the scoops at speed, the mass of the rain droplets will overcome the exiting air. It's kind of like throwing a baseball into a 30MPH wind.

If you're trying to find air, don't put the vacuum in water. Ram Air has been acheived with or without rain for a reason. I think there is enough downward slope and overhang to eliminate those concerns, if not then a simple water blade (which I think is already in place) would be sufficient. No offense. Navy ETN.

For what I was trying to accomplish, it works perfectly with no adverse effects. I have driven in 2 bad rain storms and there is no more water under hood then when it was stock. Thank you and all armed services for what you do everyday. Charlie
I'm glad to hear you not having any issues with water intrusion. Can tell if the temp. under the hood has reduced. I would suggest taking one of those remote RF thermometers you can by for your house to check the outside temp. and ziptie it under the hood and make comparison runs.

You're welcome. I'm glad to serve and enjoy my job most every day.

Thank you for your support.

Not a bad idea, I have a wireless setup now.
I might try that.

If you're trying to find air, don't put the vacuum in water. Ram Air has been acheived with or without rain for a reason. I think there is enough downward slope and overhang to eliminate those concerns, if not then a simple water blade (which I think is already in place) would be sufficient. No offense. Navy ETN.

Going down the road 27 degrees cooler underhood and parked it cools down faster or the heat soak isnt as intense so it cools faster. Charlie

If you guys really want to see where high/low pressure areas on the hood are there's a very simple and very low-tech way to do it. Tape 3" sections of yarn at even intervals across the hood, say 3-4" apart, and drive. It'll be quite easy to see where low and high pressure zones are.

Think it sounds crazy? Read this page: http://www.oman4x4.com/hoodvents.htm and scroll down to the section titled "Identifying the Low Pressure / Vacuum Areas on the Hood."

If you guys really want to see where high/low pressure areas on the hood are there's a very simple and very low-tech way to do it. Tape 3" sections of yarn at even intervals across the hood, say 3-4" apart, and drive. It'll be quite easy to see where low and high pressure zones are.

Think it sounds crazy? Read this page: http://www.oman4x4.com/hoodvents.htm and scroll down to the section titled "Identifying the Low Pressure / Vacuum Areas on the Hood."

This is true. I just did it different way, but the outcome is the same.

That is a very good idea. I had forgotten about it. That is the same thing they do with prototype aircraft.

It boils down if GM wanted funtional hood scoops they would have done it with the car but they didn't. Same thing with the GTO all show and no functional scoops.

Someone do the tape test and take a few pictures.

Someone do the tape test and take a few pictures.

Someone do the test and have *someone else* take pictures! You'll probably need to be doing 30-40 for it to be stable, and I don't want anyone trying to take pictures while driving that quick!

First post on this board - woot!

OK, now to the meat, and I'm going to be seconding another post. The scoops will not be good for ram air, as the scoops are on a fairly horizontal surface, after a very veritcal frontal area. When the air hits the car, it hits that front area first. Some of it goes into the engine bay, through the radiator. But, most of it hits that frontal area and is forced up. This vertical flowing air becomes the problem. This air is heading upwards at more than whatever mph your car is driving (Bernouli's principle = air moves faster when it has to travel farther). This means that, when it passes the transition from vertical to horizontal (the hood), it cannot turn that 90* corner. It instead curves and arches over the first part of the hood.

There is a "How To" article online somewhere, done by an older magazine, where the guy was looking for a heat extractor, and found that right behind the beginning of the hood was best. Also, you can look on page 63 of "Competition Car Aerodynamics" written by Simon McBeath - there's a nice illustration showing a Delta_Cp value of -0.1 where the G8 scoops are (atmospheric pressure is 0, and the pressure on the leading edge of the bumper is .1).

However, these would be EXCELLENT heat extractors! Air is going to enter the engine bay through the radiator (and from under the car), circulate around the engine, and at least some can exit above the car (most goes out underneath the car).

After driving in the rain last week I noticed a lot of water getting into the hood around the scoop areas. My concern is corrosion if that water doesn't have a place to go.
Any thoughts?

First post on this board - woot!
Great first post!! Chock full of accurate, technical detail!! Welcome to the forum.

I haven't unplugged mine yet do to water concerns. Charlie says it didn't make a difference...I believe him. Guess I'll have to try it and see for myself. I live in Florida and it's been raining just about everyday here lately.

Great first post!! Chock full of accurate, technical detail!! Welcome to the forum.

Thanks - I figured I'd start looking around here BEFORE I actually buy the G8. So often I buy a car, then get to know it, and find out I didn't get the "X Package" that was all the *****. Ya know?

Anyway, some other aero info that I found out through experimenting with my car:

- Remember cowl induction on 60's muscle cars? Well, I thought that they worked primarily because the windshields back then were steeply angled. I figured that, with the extreme layback of my Trans Am windshield, it wouldn't work that well (I was trying to evacuate hot air from under the hood). Well, I removed the weather stripping, windshield wipers and trim work to create a 2" slit at the back of the hood. I then taped 6" long pieces of yarn to the rear inside edge of the hood. At 60mph, I was expecting those things to stand straight up from all the air coming out of the engine. NOT SO! At about 15mph, they sucked into the engine bay and stayed there. For racing, it's more important to get air out from under the car than to have a 5* cooler engine, so I sealed it all back up.

......I then taped 6" long pieces of yarn to the rear inside edge of the hood......

This is the best way to look at aerodynamics without a wind tunnel or CFD. Thanks for the good tip.

That being said, a CFD model of the G8 available to the community would be REALLY cool!!:burnout: