I know looking at reviews about cars is something you're supposed to do before you buy, not after, but occasionally I subject myself to the torture of reading reviews on our car. Torture, you say? Yes, because it seems like every website, be it Edmunds, Insideline, Car and Driver, whatever, all chose to write scathingly negative reviews about the V6 model G8. Which is incredibly frustrating to me.

I'd be more okay with it if the articles said "The V6 G8 sucks because it sucks" and not "The V6 G8 sucks because its not a V8." No ****. It seems like the biggest complaints about the V6 are the lack of power when compared to the V8 "that's only a couple thousand dollars more!"

Does anyone else share this frustration, or am I just bitching about nothing?

I test drove both the base v6 (in SBM) with the single zone climate control, and a fully loaded GT with Sport and Premium Leather and Sunroof. I didn't personally care for the block-font graphics on the top of the center stack, and I am an Audio Affectionado, so I convinced myself that I wanted the 6-disk uplevel radio.

Picked my car from "in-between". Yes I got the V8, but it's a stripper model, on purpose. Cloth seats, no roof (thank goodness!) and no sport/premium trim.

Had I driven the V6 with the package that included the uplevel radio and dual zone climate control, I very well may have bought the V6.

So although I am not a v6 guy, I wanted to share that in this thread because I don't think ill of v6 owners. Everyone's needs are different. Just getting the G8 in the first place makes you a fellow G8 enthusiast, as the looks of all G8's, to this day to me, is still stunning.

I know that for the younger crowd, insurance rates may be hyper-prohibitive if you went with the V8 model, so that could be taken into consideration as well. Others are not gearheads and don't always need to make their cars faster... thus negating the need for "more power" that the V8 engine gives you.

Looking forward to reading more reviews, weather published online or personal reasons / justifications for getting the V6.

Lets keep this civil, guys!!

--zepcom

If its not a V8.... JK guys. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the V6. The V8 isnt for everybody and some people just dont want or need the V8. Hell, I didnt need it but I am glad I bought it. Just like most people are completely satisfied with there V6. In the end, its your car and your payment and you are the one who has to be satisfied with it everyday. JMO Like zep said, lets keep this civil...

I test drove the GT before purchasing my G8 V6 back in '08. I am glad I went the direction I did with no regrets. I was able to get a very good looking rear wheel drive sedan that I could use as a family car. Even my base version came with some real nice features, I really like the cloth interior. I've had several cars with leather and I was always bummed out how it looked after 2-3 years of use. The only option I wish my car had is an exterior temperature indicator. The stereo was never an issue since I have an extensive background in that area. Adding a light in the glove box and footwell lighting has given the car better usability and those options didn't even come with the most expensive versions of the G8. It is what it is, a car that turns heads and is fun to drive. And now with so few on the road, quite unique.

To annotate what I said given Bob's post... I love my music and wanted the better stock radio headunit, rather than having to upgrade it all like Bob has done.

That being said, I still upgraded all 4 door speakers and the two rear subs anyways, so who am I to talk.

In the end, maybe it came down to I just didn't get along with that top radio and hvac display where the atari gauges are on other cars.

Sorry I didn't read reviews about the G8. I liked the car before it came here to the states and wanted one pretty bad, but the wife didn't like it from the pictures. We first saw one in person at the LA Autoshow just when they started bringing them here and she fell in love with it. As soon as the local dealership got one in they called us. It was a fully loaded 888 V6 G8. I was not impressed with the sound that the engine made it seemed loud inside the cabin. The power was decent, the fit and finish was good the trunk space blew me away. We wanted on bad but couldn't afford it at that time. Fast foward about a year later I drove a G8 GT and I loved it the power was nice and same as the V6 with everything else.

The wife made up her mind that she wanted a G8 but she didn't know if she wanted a V6 or a GT. I was going for the GT but this was going to be the wifes car so I really had no say. I allready own a modded GTO so I have my fix for powwa. She finally made up her mind that she wanted the V6 she didn't want the V8 because she was scared of the power. I was telling her its all in the foot, but she didn't go for that. I went shopping for a V6 G8.

I found a Liquid Red V6 G8 with sunroof, comfort and sound package, she don't like leather. She loves the car. The only compliants I have is the engine noise during accelration, the rattles from the third brake light from the music, and the Onstar and XM radio boxes were in the way(I relocated them later). Problems I've have/had was unsolvable check engine light, TPMS, HU CD changer took a dump after 8xxx miles. Gas mileage isn't all that great no better than my 550+hp GTO but thats no big deal we didn't buy it for the MPG. We sold our Mitsu Lancer that got 35hwy and 25city for the G8. The ride is perfect does not float above 100mph and it handles well in the twisties. I guess thats the benifit for having FE2 tuning like the G8 GT. The interior room is good, the trunk space is excellent. The quality is pretty good, some things I think GM could have did better on was more options like reverse sensors, reverse camera, more lighting(glove box, center console, floor and door lamps) and LSD option for the V6. The V6 has plenty of power to change lanes and do what you need to do on the highway and streets. The low-end torque is good surprising for the V6. I just wish it had an even 300hp. That shows the this V6 is dated and it needed the DI V6 to be compettive. The tranny is ok, in the normal shift mode is pretty smooth the first to second shift is weird, I figure GM progrm it that way for MPG purposes. In sport mode the shifts are slow but the performance is better from the engine. In DSC mode shifts are still slow but I wish that it had the rev match mode that the 6L80 has. During canyon runs in DSC mode the up and down shifts seem seamless when getting on the gas. A LSD would help during slippary conditons I kicked the tail end sideways alttle a few times in the wet.

Other than that I really enjoy driving the car its fun to drive even though it alittle lacking in power. I'm thinking about buying another G8 GT or GXP for myself if I don't buy a truck we will see.

Tim here from Buffalo driven both v6, and v8 , purchase the v6, because of insurance reasons , have a 21yr old, a 19yr oid , and a wifey , they have thier own vehicles, none of them has shown me they can drive as i do, so they are not allow to drive the g8. sill waiting on my gxp diffuser, trunk lid liner, shark fin. again all g8s are great , if i could the rare slp firehawk with 500hp would be in my garage.learning a lot from all you g8 owners.

I wanted to get the GT because its a V8. I bought the V6 because it was affordable to me. Mine is setup with the sunroof, 6 disk player with the 11 speaker system and the dual zone climate control. Basically everything I want. For a V6, she moves very well. I was driving on the interstate when I first bought the car and thought to myself that this car was slow. I than looked down at the speedometer and realized I was doing 85mph. Didn't feel like I was. If your aggressive, you can get the V6 sideways. I've done it a few times. The best part, regardless of V6/V8, there are not many of them and the car definitely draws people to stare.

Well I read all the posts except for gm4life's post,it's like a book lol.My car is fully loaded to the tits,you name it has it.I couldn't afford the GT fully loaded and the insurance would of killed me.I paid over 38 grand for my V6,and I bought it for a family car.But ever since I got introduced to these forums,i've been modding the car nonstop.It's very addicting and has become one of my main hobbies.I wasn't planning on modding it but all you guys made me mod sick(LOL),my wife thinks im nuts.

Sure I wish I had the V8 because there's more stuff available to change out and you get an extra gear and posi and more power.But I just sit back and watch and read what you guys do to your V8's and love it.I have no major complaints with my car,there's plenty of power there if you can find it.If someone tells me my car is slow I just say no its not,your car is just faster because it has a V8.I better stop talking now before this turns into another book post.

cant do to many mods at this time ,younger son in college, so i have to start small for now ,without the wife noticing the changes, when boxes arrive they are recalls. would love to have some gt, or gxp wheels, no aftermarket for me , even though other g8s look great, i would like some gt mufflers,since i cant trade in for a gt.

Oops, well I did go a little overboard.:wink2:

Man I haven't seen this much action swirling around the V6 forum, since never. WTG. I choose not to read reviews about the G8 either. IMHO, the majority of them are somewhat biased and not truly reflective upon the individuality of the car. Having said that, by far the G8 has been a pleasure to drive thus far. My first RWD and it still rocks. Stares abound. Mod friendly. Great people on the forum. What more could one ask for? I purchased the V6 to keep out of trouble and it also facilitates a lower insurance rate. At the end of the day, although we have our issues. I still love you BLACK LIGHTNING. ALWAYS AND FOREVER....:whine: :cry:

cant do to many mods at this time ,younger son in college, so i have to start small for now ,without the wife noticing the changes, when boxes arrive they are recalls. would love to have some gt, or gxp wheels, no aftermarket for me , even though other g8s look great, i would like some gt mufflers,since i cant trade in for a gt.

This is interesting to me. I totally hear you about the "wife" issues; I have the same thing. For me, I preferred the look of the twinspoke v6 rims over my stock GT 18's ... and thus my stock gt rims are my winter snow rims. From time to time you could maybe find someone selling a set of 4 mint 19" GT rims (or even 18" GT rims) ... and work a deal with your wife to promise her that once you get tires (if 19's) or transfer your tires over, you'd sell your twinspoke rims similarly, she just might go for that. In the end, it's kinda a trade where all that is "spent" is the shipping back and forth, somewhat.

As far as the GT mufflers on a V6 -- don't do it. The GT has AFM/DOD so there's extra hardware inside the GT mufflers that combats this 4-cyl-mode anomolys that the GT's experience when AFM/DOD is active.

I would recommend (if you're the type who doesn't like the big round single tips in the square hole of the diffuser) you shop around for T304 stainless tips in 2.5" diameter that you like. It's quite easy to buy a set of quad tips (looks like the GT from the rear) or other style tips that you like, have them tack welded on by a local mufflershop, and keep your otherwise stock V6 exhaust bits. That way you change the look of the car from the back, yet, have saved a lot of money potentially replacing exhaust components or buying mods the wife wouldn't approve of.

I think SOLO sells their dual quads in 3" size (fits well with stock diffuser with no modifications, looks like stock GT from the rear) and the optional 3.5" (requires GXP Diffuser upgrade) size, all polished stainless, "a-la-carte" that can be tack welded in place of your single-outlet tips on each side for just the labor to install at a local shop. At least it's a cheap alternative to change the appearance, while still keeping costs low.

Hope this helps!

--zep

I test drove both the base v6 (in SBM) with the single zone climate control, and a fully loaded GT with Sport and Premium Leather and Sunroof. I didn't personally care for the block-font graphics on the top of the center stack, and I am an Audio Affectionado, so I convinced myself that I wanted the 6-disk uplevel radio.

Picked my car from "in-between". Yes I got the V8, but it's a stripper model, on purpose. Cloth seats, no roof (thank goodness!) and no sport/premium trim.

Had I driven the V6 with the package that included the uplevel radio and dual zone climate control, I very well may have bought the V6.

So although I am not a v6 guy, I wanted to share that in this thread because I don't think ill of v6 owners. Everyone's needs are different. Just getting the G8 in the first place makes you a fellow G8 enthusiast, as the looks of all G8's, to this day to me, is still stunning.

I know that for the younger crowd, insurance rates may be hyper-prohibitive if you went with the V8 model, so that could be taken into consideration as well. Others are not gearheads and don't always need to make their cars faster... thus negating the need for "more power" that the V8 engine gives you.

Looking forward to reading more reviews, weather published online or personal reasons / justifications for getting the V6.

Lets keep this civil, guys!!

--zepcom
Why didn't you want a sunroof on your G8? I've been looking to pick myself up a GT, and keep coming along many of them without sunroofs.

I don't know about the G8 in particular, but I've had friends that have had sunroofs on all different makes and models of cars, and reliability seems to be a big issue with them. They are expensive to fix, and they can cause serious damage if they fail and leak. Being as I live in Portland, land of 60+ inches of rain a year, a sunroof would be a big gamble that I'd only really be able to benefit from a few months a year. They look great, don't get me wrong, but I question their long-term reliability.

Exactly how Bad Karma said it. Thanks, by the way.

My last few cars had sunroofs, and aside from my person being on the tall side (sunroof hardware requires the inner roof to be lowered slightly to allow for that hardware to live, drops available headroom space by a few inches) ... they creak and moan and don't seal well (source of added wind noise) over time. As the car gets older, the rubber/weatherstripping that holds the sunroof to the roof (when closed) gets old and doesn't seal as well as it did when factory fresh.

Not to mention the reliability factor that Bad Karma said. Nothing sucks like going to the mall and realizing that your sunroof no longer closes, resulting in either weather getting into your ride, or worse, someone will bad intentions stealing your stuff.

The same problems can be said for older 4th generation F-bodies (Camaro, Firebird, Trans Ams) that had tee-tops. Talk about a rattle trap.

For me, it was something I did not want for these reasons. Just a personal preference, actually.

Thought we discussed this issue to death. As far as the Pro Reviews of the G8 V6 I say, "Eat Me". The G8 V6 has more HP and torque than a 3 or even some 5 series BIMMERS. With right suspension mods the Bimmers can't stay with the V6. ( For a 3 series with same equipment as mine a +15 to 20K $ difference) Now I understand that the Holden Version of the G8 V6 had both 6 speed auto and a positraction rear end. Is this correct? If so, can they be modded to the G8? And if the engine goes out, can the DI V6 go into the G8? Overall I am satisfied with the car. Will be more so after Spohn comes out with the front LCAs and the rear upper control arms and I get the sway bar attachment links.

thanks zepcom for the info. still waiting the gxp diffuser, then i can find out what tips would look the best, Bobmg8 love that paintschem, looks like the slp firehawk.

best i ever owned,not a v8 but FUN to drive.It suprises people how well it runs for a v6...........

Its been just over a year with my Hot White V6 G8. I do have the "loaded" version. leather seats and dual climate first time having leather with the seat warmers and such and love it. Are they days I wonder about having the V8 sure but I am happy with the V6, its a head turner as far as speed goes. I hit 100 on the freeway today! felt good! :)

thanks zepcom for the info. still waiting the gxp diffuser, then i can find out what tips would look the best, Bobmg8 love that paintschem, looks like the slp firehawk.

Here's what the solo 3.5" tips would look like with the GXP diffuser. Of course, you'd also see the V6 mufflers just behind the tips, but this will give you the basic idea that I was trying to describe. You could also get other tips, but I just wanted to show you a pic.

http://www.g8board.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=46&pictureid=5647


Now I understand that the Holden Version of the G8 V6 had both 6 speed auto and a positraction rear end. Is this correct?

Yes, this is my understanding as well. I believe the SV6 model also comes with an optional manual transmission too.

Several V6 board members have even-swapped out their rear diff for the GT diff with limited slip. Hazer (white car, green rims) was one of them, and I don't remember the others, but it's a direct swap in if you have a guy who is good at setting up differential gears (backlash, shims, etc).

The tranny would be somewhat more difficult due to the weight. No USA-spec V6's came with a 3.6SIDI compatible 6-speed, and it would be cost prohibitive to ship one over. Luckily though, the TCM (Transmission Control Module) is integrated into the transmission itself, so computer-wise, that part would not be difficult.

Hey, there's a guy with a GT that just installed a ZR-1 clutch based 6-speed manual. It definately was NOT cheap, but it works. Someone with enough coin and motivation could definately make a G8v6 a manual one, but is it worth it? Many would say "shop far and wide for an M6 GXP instead". For what it's worth.

Hope this helps.

--zep

Its been just over a year with my Hot White V6 G8. I do have the "loaded" version. leather seats and dual climate first time having leather with the seat warmers and such and love it. Are they days I wonder about having the V8 sure but I am happy with the V6, its a head turner as far as speed goes. I hit 100 on the freeway today! felt good! :)


Only a 100, keep pushing it. J/k. Mom says that's dangerous. Then again, what does she know... :wall:

When I purchased my G8, there were no V6's on either of two dealerships. I wonder what kind of insurance difference there is between the v6 and v8...

thanks zepcom those tips look great where is the best here in buffalo to get them? that save me a lot , instead of changing mufflers,its good helping one another on this forum.is there a g8 club here in the B-lo?

As far as the GT mufflers on a V6 -- don't do it. The GT has AFM/DOD so there's extra hardware inside the GT mufflers that combats this 4-cyl-mode anomolys that the GT's experience when AFM/DOD is active.


Someone allready put GT mufflers on the V6 and said it made no difference in sound. I can't remember who but it was a forum member. I was told by a guy I know at Magnaflow that the exhaust tuning is done by the center section of the exhaust system.

If you get tips make sure you get some good quality tips. Cheap ones will rust and turn will look like crap sooner.

Now I understand that the Holden Version of the G8 V6 had both 6 speed auto and a positraction rear end. Is this correct? If so, can they be modded to the G8? And if the engine goes out, can the DI V6 go into the G8?

IAW Holden website yes they have more options. I personally wouldn't bother putting money and time trying to retrofit another V6 into a G8. Could it be done yes. Me I would rather drop a V8 into it. Finding out the electrical issues would be the biggest issue.

I love my G8 V6. There are times that I wish I could say I have the GT because it has a V8 and blah blah blah. However, with me being in college and not having a steady income, I thought I would never be able to get a G8. I was in love with the car the moment it was being talked about.

Finally last August, my dad and I were talking about the G8 and how great they look. The next day, my dad took me to the dealership we talked deals and couldn't agree on the price. Then we went through Truliant Credit Union Autobuying Center and they were able to get the car at the price we wanted. I made an agreement that my dad would pay for the first 2 1/2 years and when I graduated I would pay the other half. We are hoping that one day the car will be a collectible.

I have people telling me everywhere how awesome the car is and I am glad that I got a V6 b/c it came with a sunroof, leather seats, 6 disc cd changer, Dual Zone, etc. I believe it has great power for a V6. Only issue I have had is with the sunroof with it vibrating when music is being played and over bumps. The dealership is replacing the deflector in it tomorrow and hopefully that will fix it.

You can't go wrong in a G8 whether it is a V6, GT, or GXP. This car is like my baby. Even my fiance gets tired of me cleaning it and talking about it.

thanks zepcom those tips look great where is the best here in buffalo to get them? that save me a lot , instead of changing mufflers,its good helping one another on this forum.is there a g8 club here in the B-lo?

Mufflerman in Kenmore (Shereden & Delaware near Paddock Chevy) is where I got mine. There's a WNY G8 Club on facebook, search for it and Join if you're on facebook. Come spring and summertime some of us G8ers get together for some of the local shows, with the grand finale being the Olcott Beach car show in September. Would be cool to meet up with you and talk cars. Mufflerman is a SOLO shop (http://www.g8board.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=144), but they also sell and stock the tips in several sizes and flavors. They also stock polished SOLO v6 Axlebacks too, but if you're looking to be frugal, I recommend checking out their selection of tips to be welded onto your V6 muffs. Stop by and ask for Bob, tell him zepcom sent ya!

Sorry about the confusion on what I said about the GT stock mufflers, what I meant was there's no real reason to "swap axlebacks" from V6 muffs to V8/GT muffs as there will not be any difference in sound for the several hundred dollars that you could buy entire stock GT axlebacks for. :dunno: Instead, keep it simple and consider just changing the tips!

I love my G8 V6. There are times that I wish I could say I have the GT because it has a V8 and blah blah blah. However, with me being in college and not having a steady income, I thought I would never be able to get a G8. I was in love with the car the moment it was being talked about.

Finally last August, my dad and I were talking about the G8 and how great they look. The next day, my dad took me to the dealership we talked deals and couldn't agree on the price. Then we went through Truliant Credit Union Autobuying Center and they were able to get the car at the price we wanted. I made an agreement that my dad would pay for the first 2 1/2 years and when I graduated I would pay the other half. We are hoping that one day the car will be a collectible.

I have people telling me everywhere how awesome the car is and I am glad that I got a V6 b/c it came with a sunroof, leather seats, 6 disc cd changer, Dual Zone, etc. I believe it has great power for a V6. Only issue I have had is with the sunroof with it vibrating when music is being played and over bumps. The dealership is replacing the deflector in it tomorrow and hopefully that will fix it.

You can't go wrong in a G8 whether it is a V6, GT, or GXP. This car is like my baby. Even my fiance gets tired of me cleaning it and talking about it.

So welll said, especially your last statement!! My family and friends tell me all the time I treat her like she is "real"....well to me, "EL" is real. Love "dressing her up" and "showing her off"!! Truly a privilage to own such a beautiful car :)

The first G8 i drove was a Grey V6 full load, leather, everything and I fell in love! I took it on a test drive alone and it REALLY impressed me! That car moved.

These days jouralists have forgotten how cars performed just a few years ago and if it isn't best of the best right now... It's nothing.

I think that the G8 V6 would do great with an intake, full catback and a good TCM tune if it were available!

I found my GT at another dealer already tinted with lower kms for the same price, that's why I didn't buy the V6

I like both of them. As far as I'm concerned, a G8's a G8 no matter what's under the hood. They seem to draw just as much attention as anything I've had.

I like both of them. As far as I'm concerned, a G8's a G8 no matter what's under the hood. They seem to draw just as much attention as anything I've had.

Well said.

Someone allready put GT mufflers on the V6 and said it made no difference in sound. I can't remember who but it was a forum member. I was told by a guy I know at Magnaflow that the exhaust tuning is done by the center section of the exhaust system.

If you get tips make sure you get some good quality tips. Cheap ones will rust and turn will look like crap sooner.

It was me. I have GT axlebacks on my V6, with no audible difference. Reference my post, number 14, here:

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38567

The mufflers themselves appear to be identical part numbers, with the only discernible difference being that there are the different tips welded on, or course.

88 Sunbird became a 97 Grand Am became a 2006 Grand Prix, I believe it was 07 when I first seen the concept pics for the G8... Since it was replacing my car it was a no brainer, or so I thought... My Grand Prix car payment was over in 2010, so I just figured I'd slide into a V8 G8... Pontiac goes tits up so I was either going to keep the Grand Prix or Go MOPAR with a Charger or find a yr old G8 GT... Seen a Liquid Red GT for sale at the Nethercott here in Hamilton... I drove passed it on my way to work everday, in the meantime I'm on autrotrader everyday and there is this blue G8 V6 with a sunroof in Welland ON thats for sale but its only a V6 and my heart is set on a V8...

Talk to the salesman about the liquid Red V8 sans sunroof and he wanted 525 a month on a car that was a yr old that was manufactured by a company that went out of business 34 grand taxes and stuff not all in yet... My wife was with me and when he said 525 granted he wanted to negotiate but the fact that he would have the balls to say it pissed me off... I just looked at her and said lets go for a drive and we drove down to Welland walked into the showroom and I told the guy I wanted to buy the Stryker Blue V6 did the paper work it was on a Saturday there was a holiday on Monday so we didn`t hear back til Wednesday that we got the car drove back down on Friday & picked it up and its been mine ever since...

I Love my car its a work in progress with the mods I don`t feel bad cuz I don`t drive a V8 GT... well maybe a little bad about not driving GXP lol but I look at it this way I live in a city with a population of a little more than 500 000 people if I`ve seen 10 G8`s in various trims that might be stretching it so regardless of what trim I have I consider myself LUCKY to own one...

P.S if I ever win the lottery My 1st purchase will be a Stryker Blue GXP G8...

ZEPCOM, I would settle for the positraction rear end. Would hope that some of those who did make the change out, make it to the G8 Meet in September. I would appreciate getting there impressions on the change out. BTW anyone hear anything on the Sophn LCAs and rear upper CAs?

Rich G. - Congrats on the purchase. I wanted Stryker Blue but ended up buying a Panther Black that was in perfect shape, with all the options available for the V6. Your Stryker Blue looks great. As you know, in Canada, for some unknown reason, Stryker Blue was available only on the V6.

Rich G. - Congrats on the purchase. I wanted Stryker Blue but ended up buying a Panther Black that was in perfect shape, with all the options available for the V6. Your Stryker Blue looks great. As you know, in Canada, for some unknown reason, Stryker Blue was available only on the V6.

When this whole thing started I so wanted a White G8... It was weird cuz up here we had to wait a whole year before they showed and for me I had to wait an additional yr cuz I had one yr left on my Grand Prix payment...

While waiting every video i.e car reviews always had a Red G8, there is a guy on this site Dave "Dubob" Richie who has one of the best G8 car reviews on youtube ever done its funny and informative... I don't know if it was subliminal but I went from wanting a White G8 to a Red G8 but the Stryker Blue in that Vid just stood out...

I am happy with my car I wouldn't trade it for any other color having said that if I had a Liquid Red or Magnetic Grey,Black,White or Silver I would still feel the same way...

My wife bought her Stryker blue g8 6cly last year with 500 miles and still in love with it. If I didn't have the Gto I would buy one myself. The gt would have been nice because the only complaint she has is no duel zone climate but considering her 60 mile round trip to work the 5.00 gallon gas would be brutal in a gt. I haven't done much but change the wheels to 19in and goin to swap tails to gt's. The Stryker blue is one of the best colors I have ever seen. I mite try to do a custom slpm exhaust and paint the mirrors to match car.