I've been down with ACL surgery and haven't been on much lately. I doubt there is but, is there any new/good news about the GXPS?

No news is good news?:bs:

I just got the new motortrend and it shows the g8 pricing from 27995 to 38685. it also says the 0-60 spcs as up to 4.7 so i think that must be the gxp price. Has pontiac released a price and just not told anyone?

I just got the new motortrend and it shows the g8 pricing from 27995 to 38685. it also says the 0-60 spcs as up to 4.7 so i think that must be the gxp price. Has pontiac released a price and just not told anyone?

The price is rumored to start at 38k strong.

i have been hearing 36k for the gxp and 33k for the ss camaro.

if the gap is too big they will not sell any gxps because they can get the same performance for thousands lesss in the camaro! it would be a huge mistake for the gxp to be 5k+ more than the ls3 camaro.

i have been hearing 36k for the gxp and 33k for the ss camaro.

if the gap is too big they will not sell any gxps because they can get the same performance for thousands lesss in the camaro! it would be a huge mistake for the gxp to be 5k+ more than the ls3 camaro.

No chance you'll see a GXP for 36k. Minimal will be 38k

$38K.... Crazy. An extra 41 hp, bigger breaks and what else? Not really worth it. Maybe there's something I'm missing!

$38K.... Crazy. An extra 41 hp, bigger breaks and what else? Not really worth it. Maybe there's something I'm missing!

Suspension upgrade, more supportive seats, maybe some nice gauges. Don't forget the auto will have 3:27 gears in place of the GT's 2:92's, and the manual will have 3:70's. Will make for a nice package.

Plus a motor with no AFM/DOD stuff to deal with so you can easily slap in a cam and some springs for an quick 50-75HP. :driving:

Some people will vote with their dollars and say that this package is worth every bit of $38K-$40K. :judge:

I heard through one source that the Brembo's were no longer going to be offered... I am hoping that source was wrong.

I heard through one source that the Brembo's were no longer going to be offered... I am hoping that source was wrong.

That's a very bad and stupid rumor unless they are replacing the Brembo's with something better say like on the HSV's. :popcorn2:

Here go again speculating!

I'm no cheap ass when it comes to things I like cars but if the car comes in at $38K loaded it's a done deal.
Anything over that and my GXP purchase will solely be based on its performance factor over the GT G8. With the limited specs Pontiac is throwing out about the GXP, hard facts on any of it is quite a quandary.

The 1st official press test drive impression will truly sway my decision.

Suspension upgrade, more supportive seats, maybe some nice gauges. Don't forget the auto will have 3:27 gears in place of the GT's 2:92's, and the manual will have 3:70's. Will make for a nice package.

Plus a motor with no AFM/DOD stuff to deal with so you can easily slap in a cam and some springs for an quick 50-75HP. :driving:

Some people will vote with their dollars and say that this package is worth every bit of $38K-$40K. :judge:

Im sorry but additions like more aggressive gear ratios, bigger brakes, and other performance wise additions is not worth the 5 to 7k jump. I like additions i can see or use when im NOT driving like my hair is on fire like HUD, HID's, 8-way power leather seats, etc.

But thats just me.

Im sorry but additions like more aggressive gear ratios, bigger brakes, and other performance wise additions is not worth the 5 to 7k jump. I like additions i can see or use when im NOT driving like my hair is on fire like HUD, HID's, 8-way power leather seats, etc.

But thats just me.

Everyone has their own perspective. Personally, some of what others consider plusses (like lower gearing, and more cubes) are minuses to me, as I would prefer something that got better than 10 mpg highway.

On the other hand, aftermarket brakes are very expensive, so for someone who wants bigger calipers/pistons in the front plus the ability to toss in a cam in 3-4 hours, the GXP might be just what the doctor ordered.

That's a very bad and stupid rumor unless they are replacing the Brembo's with something better say like on the HSV's. :popcorn2:

Here go again speculating!


Like I said, I'm hoping my source was wrong... but my source was looking at the initial order system from GM and the brakes are no longer listed as part of the GXP package. Just what I've heard, we'll have to wait and see.

The Pontiac dealer rep told my dealer they could start picking in early August for October/November delivery. No word on content change.

No chance you'll see a GXP for 36k. Minimal will be 38k

like someone else said 8k more for 40 more hp? that makes no sense.

yes you add cost and profit for the additional items but you also have to take of original cost for the items not going on to the gxp. take the gt with suspension wheels and tires upgrades, and leather and then add 3k for the new engine and you should have what the gxp should be sold at.

i would not be surprised if gm takes off the brake package. i would not be surprised if gm cuts the manual option. they are trying to save cash. unfortunately if they do either they will lose sales!

what would you rather have the gxp at 38k or a 3 year old 30k mile cts v for 20k?

like someone else said 8k more for 40 more hp? that makes no sense.

yes you add cost and profit for the additional items but you also have to take of original cost for the items not going on to the gxp. take the gt with suspension wheels and tires upgrades, and leather and then add 3k for the new engine and you should have what the gxp should be sold at.

i would not be surprised if gm takes off the brake package. i would not be surprised if gm cuts the manual option. they are trying to save cash. unfortunately if they do either they will lose sales!

what would you rather have the gxp at 38k or a 3 year old 30k mile cts v for 20k?

I think it is closer to $5K more for a GXP over a GT. Remember, a GXP has all options except for the sunroof. An 09 GT fully optioned (except for sunroof), will be around $33K.

Chip

I think it is closer to $5K more for a GXP over a GT. Remember, a GXP has all options except for the sunroof. An 09 GT fully optioned (except for sunroof), will be around $33K.

Chip

why spend 8 to get the extra 40hp suspension/leather? thats a lot of money for very little content if you ask me. specially if the camaro with the ls3 suspension, leather runs 33k.

why would gm sell one package for 33k and the very same package on another car for 38k?

why would gm sell one package for 33k and the very same package on another car for 38k?

Two more doors and a larger trunk!:err:

Two more doors and a larger trunk!:err:

and yet you can get that for 30k in the gt. :slap:

and yet you can get that for 30k in the gt. :slap:

From my '09 SRM GT window sticker;

Standard Vehicle price: $30,675.00
Premium Package(leather)$ 1,250.00
Destination Charge $ 685.00
Total Vehicle Price $32,610.00

That is without Sport Package or Sunroof, which would bring the total to $34,110.00. So those two doors and larger trunk will cost you more than $30K, even without going to the GXP!:wink2:

From my '09 SRM GT window sticker;

Standard Vehicle price: $30,675.00
Premium Package(leather)$ 1,250.00
Destination Charge $ 685.00
Total Vehicle Price $32,610.00

That is without Sport Package or Sunroof, which would bring the total to $34,110.00. So those two doors and larger trunk will cost you more than $30K, even without going to the GXP!:wink2:


your right its 31360. point is very few people will pay an extra 8k just so they can have the ls3. specially when they can have the ls3 in the much cheaper camaro.

do you guys really want gm to charge 38-40k for the addition of the ls3 motor? again i dont think the gxp will sell unless it is competitively priced with the new camaro ss!

as for me i would much rather have a stripped g8 gt with the ls3 engine and big breaks, and not pay 4k for new wheels, springs, leather, sunroof and other luxery items that may come on the gxp.

your right its 31360. point is very few people will pay an extra 8k just so they can have the ls3. specially when they can have the ls3 in the much cheaper camaro.

Don't know, I see a awful lot of people opting for the fully optioned GT. Can't see if they offered the LS3 in GT that all of a sudden these same people would buy it stripped. Also don't see the Camaro with the LS3 being less than $35K stripped, an '02 SS loaded was over $32K. Add in inflation alone you get to $35K (10% over 8 years seems reasonable) and I doubt you'd be looking at a loaded car even at that rate. But GM has surprised us before, the under $30K intro price of the G8 GT is a prime example. Of course they started catching up with the $1300+ increase of the '09s. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens!:biggrin2:

like someone else said 8k more for 40 more hp? that makes no sense.

I never said it made more sense. But that's not gonna stop GM from doing it.

Many have said that the extra 8K for 40 HP is not worth it. Well, Concider this. If you were to apply the same principles such as the roto-fab intake, VMS tune, Magnafkow exhaust and other HP mods, on the GT to the GXP, aren't we really looking into 80-100 HP upgrade on the GXP?

Also take into account the added Brembo Brakes, the FE3 Suspension and 3.27 or 3.70 gearing.

This being said: is it now worth it?

Your thoughts?:

Many have said that the extra 8K for 40 HP is not worth it. Well, Concider this. If you were to apply the same principles such as the roto-fab intake, VMS tune, Magnafkow exhaust and other HP mods, on the GT to the GXP, aren't we really looking into 80-100 HP upgrade on the GXP?

Also take into account the added Brembo Brakes, the FE3 Suspension and 3.27 or 3.70 gearing.

This being said: is it now worth it?

Your thoughts?:

Well, it may be worth it. At least its fully loaded, along with brembo brakes and the rest of the performance goodies. I definitely wouldnt get one stripped down, i wouldnt wanna toss my cash into a car with the only thing going for it is its motor.

A few mods like you mentioned will most likely bring up the horses up a few stories, but you can easily do the same to the GT, and with the manual tranny option for the GT coming soon, IMHO i think that will hurt GXP sales...

The only way i see it being worth it is if you only plan on buying a car and leaving it completely stock. Then and only then can i see any price difference between the GT and the GXP being worth it. Anyone who's buying either of the cars and plans to mod is better off with the GT. There's no sense in paying more money for esentially a manual transmission. When you are swapping, wheels/tires, suspension, exhaust, heads/cam, stall convertor, or even any of many mods what it comes down to is that the only differences are brakes( unless you're upgrading those too on the GT) and a manual transmission.

I.E. Not worth it IMO

I see a lot of people posting comparisons between this car and the Camaro SS... Why?

The Camaro SS is not a two door G8... it has a VERY different suspension tuning, different wheels, different tires, different everything, and its aimed a different market!

The Camaro SS is really aimed at a much younger audience who (on average) have less money to spend on a car and so I am sure there are tradeoffs for the price... I'm guessing the leather won't be as nice, the stereo will be less awesome, the seats won't have as much power-adjustment... that kind of stuff.

The G8 GXP is aimed at the family man who still wants a fairly fast car.

The Camaro is a LOT smaller (in length/width/height) and is truly a sports car.

The G8 is a LARGE sports sedan and wouldn't ever really give an SS a real challenge... in stock form of course!

I'm excited for this car because it gives me Corvette power in a family friendly package. If I was single and looking to pick up chicks, I'd totally swing for the Camaro SS.

Anyway sorry for the Jack.

~LSx

I never said it made more sense. But that's not gonna stop GM from doing it.

if they want to sell the gxp one might want to think before pricing. regardless msrp pricing and actual sale price is a big difference. i would not be surprised at 35k(invoice pricing and rebates go a long way) otd pricing on the gxp.


the 2 reason i would jump to the gxp are the stick shift option and the ls3 engine. both are available on the camaro at a cheaper price. if you dont care for these two items, one would not pay the extra price to jump to the gxp. if you do want both of these options and the camaro is 5k cheaper....well you get the idea.

so whats the better deal...
new gxp at 40k otd?
30k mile 06 ctsv at 25k otd?
maybe a 30k 05 e55 40k otd?
new g8 gt at 34k otd?

there are a lot of options out there. the gxp is not the only game in town for performance sedans.

never said it was the only performance sedan to look at. I just said that you're lyin yourself if you think the GXP is gonna be close to 35k when a fully loaded GT is 34k

Dodge charges 10k more for 55hp in the Challenger... i would hope GM isn't going to do the same....

Dodge charges 10k more for 55hp in the Challenger... i would hope GM isn't going to do the same....

Sigh. You know how GM is.

I see a lot of people posting comparisons between this car and the Camaro SS... Why?

The Camaro SS is not a two door G8... it has a VERY different suspension tuning, different wheels, different tires, different everything, and its aimed a different market!

The Camaro SS is really aimed at a much younger audience who (on average) have less money to spend on a car and so I am sure there are tradeoffs for the price... I'm guessing the leather won't be as nice, the stereo will be less awesome, the seats won't have as much power-adjustment... that kind of stuff.

The G8 GXP is aimed at the family man who still wants a fairly fast car.

The Camaro is a LOT smaller (in length/width/height) and is truly a sports car.

The G8 is a LARGE sports sedan and wouldn't ever really give an SS a real challenge... in stock form of course!

I'm excited for this car because it gives me Corvette power in a family friendly package. If I was single and looking to pick up chicks, I'd totally swing for the Camaro SS.

Anyway sorry for the Jack.

~LSx

What you are saying is true, but remember, both the upcoming camaro and the G8 are on the same platform. The camaro is basically a 2-door G8, similiar to the 2004-2006 GTO, but the designers gave it tough, throwback styling so it wouldnt look anything like the '04-'06 GTO.

Needless to say, though, i would pick up chicks all day in the G8!!! :turbonaughtdy_1:

never said it was the only performance sedan to look at. I just said that you're lyin yourself if you think the GXP is gonna be close to 35k when a fully loaded GT is 34k


a fully loaded mustang gt is more expensive than the base mustang bullitt. no its not the same, just saying that everything on the fully loaded g8 gt(the items that add cost) do not have to be on the gxp.

i personally think it will be a 3k option, and you would be able to add useless items like the sunroof for extra. like i said before i heard gm wants to stay near 36k for the base gxp. this would be smart.

everything on the fully loaded g8 gt(the items that add cost) do not have to be on the gxp.

From what i hear, the only options that are going to be available on the GXP are a sunroof, all season tires, and of course a manual tranny.

The G8 GXP is aimed at the family man who still wants a fairly fast car.
~LSx

This is me.

I would love to be able to modify the GXP but knowing my current situation I'm sure I'll be limited to minor bolt ons for a while (at least 2 to 3 years).

In my opinion the extra options such as brakes, LS3 and interior are worth the extra $5K. The brakes and the additional power are options that I would want on the car anyway so I figure why not buy it from the factory with a warranty.

Well, it may be worth it. At least its fully loaded, along with brembo brakes and the rest of the performance goodies. I definitely wouldnt get one stripped down, i wouldnt wanna toss my cash into a car with the only thing going for it is its motor.

A few mods like you mentioned will most likely bring up the horses up a few stories, but you can easily do the same to the GT, and with the manual tranny option for the GT coming soon, IMHO i think that will hurt GXP sales...

No Manuel on the GT... GXP only

This is me.

I would love to be able to modify the GXP but knowing my current situation I'm sure I'll be limited to minor bolt ons for a while (at least 2 to 3 years).

In my opinion the extra options such as brakes, LS3 and interior are worth the extra $5K. The brakes and the additional power are options that I would want on the car anyway so I figure why not buy it from the factory with a warranty.

Yup. This is me too...

The way I look at it is this... as soon as I start modifying a car, I start screwing up the balance that GM Engineers spent THOUSANDS of man-hours setting up. Once I add more power, something might break, or the steering might not feel right anymore, or the brakes won't be up to the new challenge... you get the idea. I appreciate a well balanced car.

For me, its better to spend the extra $5k and KNOW that I am getting a car that is WAY more talented than I am! The GXP will be fast, no doubt, but it will also be reliable and well balanced... and after a certain point in your life you want your daily driver to just work. Everyday.

Plus, I challenge those in a 'other camp' to make a case that they can add ALL the features of the GXP for less than $5K... I bet they can't.

So far here is the list of upgrades that I know of:

-Brembo 14" brakes all around (four pot calipers up front)
-6.2L LS3 (more displacement than L76 without DOD)
-Tremec Manual Transmission (same as Viper, Corvette, Challenger)
-Upgraded suspension (including struts, springs, swaybars, end links, and rear lateral links)
-Upgraded Interior (better seats, dash upgrades, Sport Steering Wheel)

If anyone can tell me how they can get ALL this for $5K I'd love to hear it!

~LSx

a fully loaded mustang gt is more expensive than the base mustang bullitt. no its not the same, just saying that everything on the fully loaded g8 gt(the items that add cost) do not have to be on the gxp.

i personally think it will be a 3k option, and you would be able to add useless items like the sunroof for extra. like i said before i heard gm wants to stay near 36k for the base gxp. this would be smart.

A fully loaded bullit also has less options than a fully loaded GT. Last I checked that wasnt the case with the G8GT and the GXP. Now if you looked at maybe the difference between a Saleen or Roush and a GT now that'd be a better comparison.

And again. What is smart for GM to do, and what they will actually do are two totally different things....

According to the newest Car and Driver expect the GXP to be mid 30s.

Expect this M5-on-the-cheap to run a 0-to-60 time of less than five seconds and come loaded with a price in the mid-30s


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/what_s_new_for_2009_car_news/browse_by_make/pontiac_car_news

A fully loaded bullit also has less options than a fully loaded GT. Last I checked that wasnt the case with the G8GT and the GXP.

i understand the gxp may come with every option the gt has. why does the gxp have to come with all the gt options?

hell if you guys think paying 38-40k for a gxp is cool go ahead. imo the gxp is not 8-10k better than the gt. i will not be paying more than 32k(35k otd) for mine. if i dont get one thats fine, there will be plenty of 2 year old ctsv and g8 gxp in the mid 20 the next few years. i will have plenty of choices.

i just want a damn gxp with 6mt and maybe bluetooth.. no sunroof, no 19s, no summer tires, no 2 tone interior...

The concept rims will also be on the GXP. I can't recall where I read that, but if that is true, those rims are over $4,370 shipped.

GM HSV GTS 20" wheel set (20 x 8 front & 20 x 9.5 rear)

According to the newest Car and Driver expect the GXP to be mid 30s.




http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/what_s_new_for_2009_car_news/browse_by_make/pontiac_car_news


hopefully you and they are right!

The concept rims will also be on the GXP. I can't recall where I read that, but if that is true, those rims are over $4,370 shipped.

GM HSV GTS 20" wheel set (20 x 8 front & 20 x 9.5 rear)

The rims on the GXP show car will be on the production car, but they are 19" wheels that are similar to the original HSV wheels.

Chip

i understand the gxp may come with every option the gt has. why does the gxp have to come with all the gt options?

hell if you guys think paying 38-40k for a gxp is cool go ahead. imo the gxp is not 8-10k better than the gt. i will not be paying more than 32k(35k otd) for mine. if i dont get one thats fine, there will be plenty of 2 year old ctsv and g8 gxp in the mid 20 the next few years. i will have plenty of choices.

It doesn't matter whether we think paying 38-40K is cool, the car will cost what it costs. I wouldn't mind having one at 30K, but that is not realistic either. As for value, there is most likely a 5K value spread between the GT and GXP.

A comparable aftermarket brake package will run $2500+. A tune and CAI will most likely set you back $600. Installing a 3.27 rear gear will most likely cost you another $700. That totals to $3800 without installation. And, technically your warranty is null on the brakes and rear gear (gray area on the tune). Of course, to have a manual really only leaves you with one viable option.

As to why the GXP has all of the GT options. I can think of two compelling reasons. First, market research most likely says that the majority of the GXP buyers will want all of the GT options. Because of that research, the second reason is the cars are being shipped from Australia. As with the GT, they are limiting the variations. Actually, I think you will find it hard to locate a stripped G8GT. They seem to be rather rare.

Chip

Actually, I think you will find it hard to locate a stripped G8GT. They seem to be rather rare.

Chip

Very. Everytime i see a G8 GT on a dealership lot, it isnt missing a single option/package(except for maybe all season tires).

You want one, find a dealer with an allocation and have him tag/order one for you. They are made. Go to www.gminventory.com and check them out. Stripped would be Model/Pattern GT or GT1, fully loaded would be GT7. Have fun!:wink2:

hell if you guys think paying 38-40k for a gxp is cool go ahead. imo the gxp is not 8-10k better than the gt. i will not be paying more than 32k(35k otd) for mine. if i dont get one thats fine, there will be plenty of 2 year old ctsv and g8 gxp in the mid 20 the next few years. i will have plenty of choices.

I totally agree with you. The car isnt 8-10k better than the GT but that def won't stop GM from slappin a higher pricetag on it because there will be those people who don't know better and will pay that extra money just because it's a higher model line.

It doesn't matter whether we think paying 38-40K is cool, the car will cost what it costs. I wouldn't mind having one at 30K, but that is not realistic either. As for value, there is most likely a 5K value spread between the GT and GXP.

A comparable aftermarket brake package will run $2500+. A tune and CAI will most likely set you back $600. Installing a 3.27 rear gear will most likely cost you another $700. That totals to $3800 without installation. And, technically your warranty is null on the brakes and rear gear (gray area on the tune). Of course, to have a manual really only leaves you with one viable option.

it matters! regardless of msrp if they dont sell, gm will drop the price! yes some will pay top price and then some. but the majority will wait, buy used(cts v, etc), jump to the gt or camaro or vette(if they cost the same why not?), or not buy at all. a perfect example is the 03/04 mustang svt. there was a reason why this 400hp 35k car was selling for 500 under invoice plus a 3k rebate!

to add it afterward will cost more money. for gm to take the gt brakes off a new g8 and put 14 inch brakes on costs them very little money. true gm cost between the gt brakes and 14inch brembos is probably less than 500 bucks.

you do have a few options if you want a stick shift sports sedan.:driving:

I totally agree with you. The car isnt 8-10k better than the GT but that def won't stop GM from slappin a higher pricetag on it because there will be those people who don't know better and will pay that extra money just because it's a higher model line.

I wish you guys would stop saying that guys like me who are holding out for a GXP are stupid or don’t know any better (trust me I probably know more than you think I do :) ),

This will be the first brand new car I have ever bought and although I know the G8 GT is a great car and if they had of bought out a manual one I would have one today but, I don’t want just a everyday run of the mill G8GT,

Now that said, I don’t want to pay 8-10 k more for the GXP but if I have too, I will, its been a dream of mine for years to own and not just work on a HSV car and for me this GXP is as close as I will get and I can personally see the Value in the GXP, the better seats, different dash, bigger brakes, different look cosmetically, the better suspension and the LS3 is worth paying out the extra dosh to get what I really want IMHO,

I wish you guys would stop saying that guys like me who are holding out for a GXP are stupid or don’t know any better (trust me I probably know more than you think I do :) ),

This will be the first brand new car I have ever bought and although I know the G8 GT is a great car and if they had of bought out a manual one I would have one today but, I don’t want just a everyday run of the mill G8GT,

first off congrats on a well earned purchase. just dont let your foresighted conclusions raise the price of your new purchase. do your homework. talk to at least 10 dealers, and at least 3 dealers out of state(such as south dakota). dont be the first to purchase unless your getting a good deal(500 over invoice on an ordered gxp would be a decent buy).

i still believe that this time next year the 09 gxp will be heavily marked down with good rabates as well. this could also happen as early as spring as well. dont pay msrp or above.

it matters! regardless of msrp if they dont sell, gm will drop the price! yes some will pay top price and then some. but the majority will wait, buy used(cts v, etc), jump to the gt or camaro or vette(if they cost the same why not?), or not buy at all. a perfect example is the 03/04 mustang svt. there was a reason why this 400hp 35k car was selling for 500 under invoice plus a 3k rebate!

to add it afterward will cost more money. for gm to take the gt brakes off a new g8 and put 14 inch brakes on costs them very little money. true gm cost between the gt brakes and 14inch brembos is probably less than 500 bucks.

you do have a few options if you want a stick shift sports sedan.:driving:

Are you telling me that if you walk into the dealership and they have a GXP at 32K and a fully loaded GT at 27K, you are going to buy the GT?

Camaro, Vette? I am guessing there will be a good percentage of the GXP buyers that could make that purchase. However, they are most likely needing 4 doors for family or daily driver business reasons. They are not looking for this to be a hard core performance purchase.

Used cars are a whole different ballgame. What's the warranty? The E55 you had in an earlier example, will cost a fortune to maintain. The CTS-V is hard on the rear diff. I'm not seeing as much from the Commodore guys on their rear diff.

As for sports sedans with a stick, it depends on the criteria. A RWD V8 stick sports sedan is a pretty thin crowd. Pontiac, Audi (well, that's AWD, but close enough), Cadillac, and BMW. If you drop V8, you can pick up Lexus and Infiniti. And if you drop RWD, you can pick up Acura and Nissan. From the original criteria, all are very expensive new, almost double the GXP guessed price. Used, they move into the GXP range (BMW will within next year), but will be expensive to keep fully functional.

Chip

Are you telling me that if you walk into the dealership and they have a GXP at 32K and a fully loaded GT at 27K, you are going to buy the GT?

no i am saying that if gm chargers 38k+ for the gxp they will be sitting a long time on showroom floors.

I'd bet they sold more Bonneville GXP's at that price then they can produce G8 GXP's.

no i am saying that if gm chargers 38k+ for the gxp they will be sitting a long time on showroom floors.

I'd have to agree. A lot of the pent up demand for G8s was spent I think - many who would like a GXP got a GT when the GT first came out. After not having any for months and not knowing when they would come out and generally not knowing anything about the car, the dealer near me now has something like 7 G8s on the lot. Cars are not selling right now and various niche performance cars that used to command premiums can be bought around invoice or less. But not if you are the first one to get one. Much may depend on where gas prices are this time next year. They may though be somewhat reluctant to discount the G8s heavily as long as they are aussie made since the USD exch rate sucks making it presumably a comparably expensive car to produce.

no i am saying that if gm chargers 38k+ for the gxp they will be sitting a long time on showroom floors.

Then that is a very different arguement. By what you said, you also recognize the value spread between the GT and the GXP. However, you feel the product line is overpriced. I am not sure I agree, but that is a fair arguement. There is the poor exchange rate and the added cost of transport that domestic produced models do not have to bear.

The GT will be the G8 volume leader. The GXP will be a halo vehicle very much along the lines of the SRT series. I am thinking sales along the lines of 5K annually would be expected. That would mirror what the Grand Prix GXP did. I believe they can drive that much volume at the 38K price. In fact, the low sales volume would most likely appeal to someone willing to spend that kind of money. A "rare" car for a reasonable sum of money.

Chip

The GT will be the G8 volume leader. The GXP will be a halo vehicle very much along the lines of the SRT series. I am thinking sales along the lines of 5K annually would be expected. That would mirror what the Grand Prix GXP did. I believe they can drive that much volume at the 38K price. In fact, the low sales volume would most likely appeal to someone willing to spend that kind of money. A "rare" car for a reasonable sum of money.

Chip

But GP GTP/GXP were discounted up to 4k + negotiating to invoice (I should know) during a better economic backdrop. The car is worth more than 40K given it's specs, the sad thing is their market / demographic wont pay that much for the Pontiac brand. Just think BMW sells 335s & 135s all day at 38K+ and it's a mass production car; awesome cars no doubt but nothing rare or anything. Hell GM has that cobalt SS that goes around the nurburgring in something like 8:20 (probably as fast as GXP would) and I doubt that's selling either at 20K. I predict with patience it will be possible to buy a GXP between 35-36 if the starting point is 38 (thousand cash back and some negotiating) and at that price it's a massive bargain.

Then that is a very different arguement. By what you said, you also recognize the value spread between the GT and the GXP. However, you feel the product line is overpriced.

i feel at 38k the gxp is overpriced when the gt sells for 31k. just to be sure this is what i stated earlier. specially if the ls3 camaro sells for near 33k.
it matters! regardless of msrp if they dont sell, gm will drop the price! yes some will pay top price and then some. but the majority will wait, buy used(cts v, etc), jump to the gt or camaro or vette(if they cost the same why not?), or not buy at all.

again to back up my point, it matters if you think 38k is overpriced! if the gxp does not sell they will have to lower the price. its as simple as that. do you really want to be one of the few that pay msrp while most people get the car for 5k less?

But GP GTP/GXP were discounted up to 4k + negotiating to invoice (I should know) during a better economic backdrop. The car is worth more than 40K given it's specs, the sad thing is their market / demographic wont pay that much for the Pontiac brand. Just think BMW sells 335s & 135s all day at 38K+ and it's a mass production car; awesome cars no doubt but nothing rare or anything. Hell GM has that cobalt SS that goes around the nurburgring in something like 8:20 (probably as fast as GXP would) and I doubt that's selling either at 20K. I predict with patience it will be possible to buy a GXP between 35-36 if the starting point is 38 (thousand cash back and some negotiating) and at that price it's a massive bargain.

They were very discounted. I bought one (a GXP) that way. The original argument was that the GXP was not worth 8K-10K more than a G8 GT. I pointed out that the GXP was truly only 5K more than a G8 GT since most GTs are fairly well optioned and the GXP is fully optioned (except for sunroof). I believe you even agree that the G8 GXP is worth at least 38K but that very few will be willing to pay that amount.

I never argued that anyone should run out and pay msrp. I would suggest that any rebates/discounts would apply to both the GT and the GXP. Therefore, the relative value spread will remain the same. Some dealers will hold them as trophies in much the same way they did the 888 G8s.

i feel at 38k the gxp is overpriced when the gt sells for 31k. just to be sure this is what i stated earlier. specially if the ls3 camaro sells for near 33k.

I would suggest that very, very few GT sticker at 31K. Most are approaching 33K - 34K. That is a 4K to 5K spread. The Camaro is irrelevant in this argument. Only a small minority will seriously cross shop the two.

For better or worse, there is additional overhead to build a GXP vs. Camaro. There is definitely additional cost per unit to ship the LS3s to Oz and then ship the completed car to the US. I have to believe that neither are cheap and will automatically inflate the price/cost of the GXP.

again to back up my point, it matters if you think 38k is overpriced! if the gxp does not sell they will have to lower the price. its as simple as that. do you really want to be one of the few that pay msrp while most people get the car for 5k less?

Didn't say I was going to pay sticker for either a GT or GXP. I didn't on my GP GXP. I don't think you can compare one car at a theoretical otd price and the other at full sticker. You kept arguing that the GXP was not worth 8K - 10K more than a GT. I think to fairly compare cars or assess their value/worth, you have to try to match up the cars with like options. Like optioned GT and GXP are more realistically about 5K apart. And frankly the majority of the 09 GTs are priced at least in the 33K range if not more. That is 5K and you agreed that you would pay a 5K difference for a GXP over a GT. Therefore, I think you see the value difference between the two.

Yes, I do believe that I will pay 5K more than someone purchasing a GT. If discounts are offered, they will most likely be offered on the GT and the GXP. I may ultimately pay 35K for a GXP. But someone buying a GT that same day would be paying 30K for a GT with matching options.

I think the magic cutoff for Pontiac will be 40K. If the G8 GXP goes over 40K, that will kill the sales. I would also say that the GXP will die if they have to discount them by 5K off sticker. It will basically show the market is not there.

Chip

Didn't say I was going to pay sticker for either a GT or GXP.

with this statement below you seem to think there is nothing you can do about pricing. and that we the customer will have to pay what the dealer asks for the vehicle.

It doesn't matter whether we think paying 38-40K is cool, the car will cost what it costs.

i on the other hand feel that the customer has a lot of control on the price of the vehicle. you think a car cost too much? dont buy it. if your peers agree with you the price will drop! only one thing will determine if the gxp is worth 38k+. the customers.

but if you want to spend 38k+ for the gxp go right ahead, its not my money! i am assuming that you feel the car is worth that or more by this discussion that we are having.

with this statement below you seem to think there is nothing you can do about pricing. and that we the customer will have to pay what the dealer asks for the vehicle.

No. I guess I do things differently. I will use the pricing to determine the relative values of different products (say GXP vs. used certified CTS-V) and make my decision on what I want. I will then work dealers within a 500 mile radius to find a price that is acceptable to me. My GP GXP worked out to be a local dealer. My wife's used low mile SUV worked out to be a dealer in Charlotte (400 miles from me).

That may be part of our disconnect. I use value/worth separately from otd price. I may believe the GXP is worth 38K in relation to other vehicles, but I will work as hard as possible to pay as much less than that as possible. And yes, I will walk away if I don't get the number I expect. However, I don't go in with an unrealistic number. I'm not going to waste my time with hijinx like that.

i on the other hand feel that the customer has a lot of control on the price of the vehicle. you think a car cost too much? dont buy it. if your peers agree with you the price will drop! only one thing will determine if the gxp is worth 38k+. the customers.

but if you want to spend 38k+ for the gxp go right ahead, its not my money! i am assuming that you feel the car is worth that or more by this discussion that we are having.

I think the car will sell at 38K. I don't think it will go like gangbusters. I believe a number of dealers will be willing to have this as a halo car for a while. I'm afraid some of those idiots will have this thing priced in such a way that 38K might even appear to be a good deal. Again, worth and otd price are ultimately two different things to me. One is a tool much like a home appraisal, the other is what's coming out of my pocket (which is pretty near and dear to me as I can see it is to you).

Chip

I may believe the GXP is worth 38K in relation to other vehicles, but I will work as hard as possible to pay as much less than that as possible. And yes, I will walk away if I don't get the number I expect.

how can you believe this car is worth 38k if you will not pay 38k to purchase the car? that is assuming the number you expect is less than 38k.

edit: so you believe there will be no rebates on the gxp at any time during the 2009 build year? as you believe they will sell at normal dealer pricing(generally somewhere between invoice-msrp)

Richtor are going to be buying a GXP?

cant afford one now. i would like to purchase one next spring. however the deal would have to be around 35k otd and it would need to be a stick shift.

like i said earlier a 05/06 ctsv with under 30k miles would be very tempting at 22/23k. here in az i would not have to pay sales tax on a private party car purchase either. thats another 2k in savings.

how can you believe this car is worth 38k if you will not pay 38k to purchase the car? that is assuming the number you expect is less than 38k.

edit: so you believe there will be no rebates on the gxp at any time during the 2009 build year? as you believe they will sell at normal dealer pricing(generally somewhere between invoice-msrp)

I guess it goes back to what I described previously. I think the GXP is worth 5K more than the GT. If I am comparing msrp pricing, that places the GXP at ~38K. What caught my attention was your assertion that the GXP is not worth 8K more than a stripped GT.

As for what I am willing to pay, I am not going to pay msrp for either a GT or GXP. However, I will most likely end up paying 5K more for a GXP than a GT. I feel there is that more inherent value.

As for rebates, I expect there will be something for the G8 line which would most likely include the GXP. I don't think you can infer that a rebate available for the G8 line means that the GXP is either overpriced or not selling. I do think they will sell at normal dealer pricing. As was pointed out before, the Bonneville did this a few years ago.

We may disagree on what a success is. Should the GXP be 10% of the G8 sales, 20%? I'm not sure. At 15% and 40K volume, that would be ~6K in sales. It is not going to be a Camaro in sales volume no matter what the price. The GXP will be a niche player in a vehicle line that is low volume car.

Chip

As for rebates, I expect there will be something for the G8 line which would most likely include the GXP.

wow talk about a lot of words and not much information. :judge:

its very easy for gm to place rebates on the base g8 or gt or the gxp without the rebate being used for the entire line. in fact all manufacturer have a history for this. ex) 3k rebate on all mustangs. shelby and svt mustangs not included.
if the gxp are not selling there will be a rebate on them. if they are selling there will not be a rebate on them.

wow talk about a lot of words and not much information. :judge:

:banghead: Takes alot when a person changes their position every few posts. First it's not worth 8K more than a stripped GT. Then the sticker is too much at 38K.

its very easy for gm to place rebates on the base g8 or gt or the gxp without the rebate being used for the entire line. in fact all manufacturer have a history for this. ex) 3k rebate on all mustangs. shelby and svt mustangs not included.
if the gxp are not selling there will be a rebate on them. if they are selling there will not be a rebate on them.

True. And GM may do that. Depends on what GM's target volume is.

:banghead: Takes alot when a person changes their position every few posts. First it's not worth 8K more than a stripped GT. Then the sticker is too much at 38K.

its the same thing! is it not? g8 gt ~ 30k g8 gxp ~ 38k

38k-30k ~ 8k difference. is my math wrong?

also you say its worth 38k, but will refuse to pay msrp(38k) for the gxp. speaking of talking out of both sides of your mouth. if you will not pay 38k for the gxp it must not be worth that much money to you.:drink:

its the same thing! is it not? g8 gt ~ 30k g8 gxp ~ 38k

38k-30k ~ 8k difference. is my math wrong?

Tell me what happens to your above arguement when you apply a 3K rebate to both.

also you say its worth 38k, but will refuse to pay msrp(38k) for the gxp. speaking of talking out of both sides of your mouth. if you will not pay 38k for the gxp it must not be worth that much money to you.:drink:

No. I explained the way I approach value/worth compared to purchase price. Either you chose not to read it or you did not comprehend. Just because I am able to negotiate a better price than you does not mean I think my car is worth less than yours.

Tell me what happens to your above arguement when you apply a 3K rebate to both.



No. I explained the way I approach value/worth compared to purchase price. Either you chose not to read it or you did not comprehend. Just because I am able to negotiate a better price than you does not mean I think my car is worth less than yours.

purchase price is the value one sets on a car. if one purchases a car at 60k to him its worth 60k. if he purchases a car at 5k to him its worth 5k. asking or starting price means nothing when you choose to purchase a car. great you got a deal when you purchased a brand new 100k car for 15k. cool! that car is worth only 15k in your eyes!

in response to your first question i stated that gm is trying to keep the gxp under 36k. for the basis of comparison only did i bring up the 30k starting price of the gt. once again gm will be crazy if they think the gxp will sell for 38k or more!

purchase price is the value one sets on a car. if one purchases a car at 60k to him its worth 60k. if he purchases a car at 5k to him its worth 5k. asking or starting price means nothing when you choose to purchase a car. great you got a deal when you purchased a brand new 100k car for 15k. cool! that car is worth only 15k in your eyes!

:drink: I think I need some of what you're drinkin...:huh: I've never heard value/worth explained that way.

in response to your first question i stated that gm is trying to keep the gxp under 36k. for the basis of comparison only did i bring up the 30k starting price of the gt. once again gm will be crazy if they think the gxp will sell for 38k or more!

Actually, you mention 8K several times including your previous post. My point (that I made in a subtle way many posts ago) is that if I used rebates to move the price of both models down by 3K (27K and 35K), do you still stand by your argument that the GXP is not worth 8K more than the GT? Or is your only argument that the GXP is not worth 38K no matter what the price (say 36K) of a GT is?

Wow, I feel dumber after reading the last six posts.

your argument that the GXP is not worth 8K more than the GT? Or is your only argument that the GXP is not worth 38K no matter what the price (say 36K) of a GT is?

last statement in this stupid thread.

the gxp is not worth 38k when the camaro with the same drivetrain on the same chasis is worth 33k(so we think). this puts the gxp at 8k more expensive than the gt which i think is rediculous.

if i do order one, i am not paying more than 32k(or 35k otd). some people may pay more. they are the ones that think this car is worth more than i believe it is worth.

Please go and buy a new camaro....You have already said you didn't want to buy the GXP or couldn't afford it. People that really want it will find a way to afford or already have the money. You have made some of the worst arguments in this thread. Go buy a used CTS....Find a new forum.

purchase price is the value one sets on a car. if one purchases a car at 60k to him its worth 60k. if he purchases a car at 5k to him its worth 5k. asking or starting price means nothing when you choose to purchase a car. great you got a deal when you purchased a brand new 100k car for 15k. cool! that car is worth only 15k in your eyes!

Economics: "The value of an object or service is often seen as nothing but the price it would bring in an open and competitive market. This is determined primarily by the demand for the object relative to supply. Many neoclassical economic theories equate the value of a commodity with its price, whether the market is competitive or not. As such, everything is seen as a commodity and if there is no market to set a price then there is no economic value." (New Palgrave Dictionary of Economics)


So the value of the car is whatever people are willing to pay for it. If people are willing to pay 38k for it, then it's worth 38k. If you can get it for less than that, then great, you're getting a deal! Just because you think it is only worth 35k [to you], does not mean that is what the vehicle is worth.

Just because you think it is only worth 35k [to you], does not mean that is what the vehicle is worth.
:judge: The way richtor keeps comparing the Camaro to the GXP doesn't make sense. They are totally different cars (regardless of the platform) and do not present a fair comparison.

Like xcaliber said, go buy something else! While borrowed from a different forum I think it is VERY appropriate. http://www.srt-4mation.com/images/smilies/dead_horse.gif

The only similiarities between the Camaro and the G8 GXP is price.

We don't know either one yet!

I hope the GXP comes equiped with the HSV analog gauges.

If the the Camaro has all of the gauges including a torque gauge and the GXP being the flagship for Pontiac and a top performing muscle car then it should have them as well.

If the GXP comes with the empty storage tray and no additional gauges on the LS3, I'll be very very pissed.

I really like the Camaro because it will have everything a performace car should have. I would like everything the Camaro has to offer but in a 4 door.

This is why i'm patiantly waiting for the GXP..

Your thoughts.:driving:

As soon as the dealers can order I'll let you know. I just placed an order for the GXP in the new darker red, with the 6 speed manual, from the dealer I got my G8 from. They are a high volumn dealer will be able to order one.

I dont understand the torque gauge on the camaro when it only goes to 370ft lbs and the camaro has more on the ss stock. Whats the point if its maxed out?!

Wow, I feel dumber after reading the last six posts.

I'm kinda surprised you read the last six. I thought it was just me and richtor.

:drink: I think I need some of what you're drinkin...:huh: I've never heard value/worth explained that way.

The way he explains value is actually more in line with the way economics would define "price". Besides being an indicator of the scarcity of an item, a price in an exchange represents the worth of an item to each side of a transaction. For the seller, the money he's getting for the item is worth more than the item he's selling. For the buyer, the item he's getting is worth more than the money he's giving. If I won't buy a car at $45k, but I will at $40k, then the car was worth at least $40k for me because I was willing to make the exchange. If the car was worth $35k to me, then I wouldn't have gone through with it even at $40k.

That said, if I manage to buy a car below what I would have been willing to pay for it, then in comes the economics concept of consumer surplus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Surplus#Consumer_Surplus).

The way he explains value is actually more in line with the way economics would define "price". Besides being an indicator of the scarcity of an item, a price in an exchange represents the worth of an item to each side of a transaction. For the seller, the money he's getting for the item is worth more than the item he's selling. For the buyer, the item he's getting is worth more than the money he's giving. If I won't buy a car at $45k, but I will at $40k, then the car was worth at least $40k for me because I was willing to make the exchange. If the car was worth $35k to me, then I wouldn't have gone through with it even at $40k.

That said, if I manage to buy a car below what I would have been willing to pay for it, then in comes the economics concept of consumer surplus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Surplus#Consumer_Surplus).

Yes. The key difference is the use of the word "only" vs. your use of the words "at least". Your definition recognizes the concept that something could be of more value than the x dollars you actually paid to own it.

Yes. The key difference is the use of the word "only" vs. your use of the words "at least". Your definition recognizes the concept that something could be of more value than the x dollars you actually paid to own it.

Important distinction there... marginal cost must be less than or equal to marginal benefit for you to make the decision to spend. Not simply equal to....

For example I think my car is worth about 40K and might have paid that for it. However the supplier did not ask for that.

The only way where price=marginal cost=marginal benefit is in a market with perfct price descrinination... the only example I can think of is an auction, and that is STILL not perfect.

Important distinction there... marginal cost must be less than or equal to marginal benefit for you to make the decision to spend. Not simply equal to....

For example I think my car is worth about 40K and might have paid that for it. However the supplier did not ask for that.

The only way where price=marginal cost=marginal benefit is in a market with perfct price descrinination... the only example I can think of is an auction, and that is STILL not perfect.

No such thing as 'perfect' in Economics anyway. Use all the calculus you want, as long as people are involved, there will be unpredictability. People are irrational. The fact that Economics as a science is predicated on people making rational decisions, means that it will always be a social science, certainly never 'perfect.'

No such thing as 'perfect' in Economics anyway. Use all the calculus you want, as long as people are involved, there will be unpredictability. People are irrational. The fact that Economics as a science is predicated on people making rational decisions, means that it will always be a social science, certainly never 'perfect.'

There is actually a new branc of ecoomics that has been developed in the last few years that better takes into account the fact that people do not always act in their best intrest, which as I am sure you know is the underlying principle governing classical economics.

Is there an actual production start up date for the GXP yet? Other than 4th quarter?

its the same thing! is it not? g8 gt ~ 30k g8 gxp ~ 38k

38k-30k ~ 8k difference. is my math wrong?

also you say its worth 38k, but will refuse to pay msrp(38k) for the gxp. speaking of talking out of both sides of your mouth. if you will not pay 38k for the gxp it must not be worth that much money to you.:drink:

Your math is wrong, cause the GXP will have all the options of a fully loaded GT minus the sunroof. So You would be comparing 33500 (roughly) for a GT to 38k for the GXP.

A 5k difference for the better motor, brakes, interior parts and upgraded suspension is defidently worth it. As said somewhere in this thread, a decent brake kit is 2500+, suspension is what another 1500, seats another 1000 thats with out the motor factored in or the fact that it all has a warranty.

Is there an actual production start up date for the GXP yet? Other than 4th quarter?

I haven't seen anybody post anything definite. However, given shipping time, etc.; you have to believe production will start no later than September to have them arriving in late Nov. or Dec. It could definitely be earlier than Sept.

I haven't seen anybody post anything definite. However, given shipping time, etc.; you have to believe production will start no later than September to have them arriving in late Nov. or Dec. It could definitely be earlier than Sept.

One thing I dont like that I noticed a couple weeks ago is that on Pontiacs website it says available 2009 now instaed of 2008. That would suck if it releases when the camaro does!

As soon as the dealers can order I'll let you know. I just placed an order for the GXP in the new darker red, with the 6 speed manual, from the dealer I got my G8 from. They are a high volumn dealer will be able to order one.


I too have a high volumn dealer that I'm going to work with. Did your dealer give you any indication on when they could order the GXP? I'm getting ready to start hounding my dealer soon.

There is actually a new branc of ecoomics that has been developed in the last few years that better takes into account the fact that people do not always act in their best intrest, which as I am sure you know is the underlying principle governing classical economics.
Neoclassical economics actually often assumes that individuals have perfect information, hence how and why they can apply statistical models to everyone. I'm more a fan of the Austrian school of economics which sensibly assumes that, no, people don't have perfect information.