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: Steering Wheel Shake


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finallink
08-08-2012, 06:48 PM
I am happy to announce the new RE11's have fixed the steering wheel vibration issue. 100% confirmed. I just got off the freeway after driving in excess of the speed limit. The steering wheel was solid never did it once show any signs of shaking.

The new Nitto Invos all had flat spots. I had the Nittos for 4 months and had less than 5,000 miles on them. The RE11's ride smoother than the Nittos handling road bumps with ease. The Nittos were loud, lots road noise.

My heart was racing as the G8 has no problems reminding why I love my Pontiac so much. I hope my experience can save you from spending the money I wasted on part after part after part....

Good times are here again...Good Luck everyone.

EMS Guy
08-09-2012, 08:13 AM
Making some progress on this issue.........

I have pretty much boiled down it's not RPM nor load contingent, but definitely speed contingent.

I had the car in different gears, different rpm brackets and at a constant speed of 65mph and the steering wheel shake did not magnify nor diminish based upon RPM and Load variation. This leads me to believe that it's not drivetrain related at all. Should the driveshaft been "off balance" as some have proclaimed, the faster RPMS and Load would have magnified the problem.

It's also not weight contingent either. I did the same tests with less than a half tank of gas and on a complete full tank of gas. Vibrantion was still present and did not change at all either way. 50-75mph is where she finds her rhythm of vibration.

Therefore, I am on to phase II of the my testing.....

I will keep all posted.

Turbo301
08-09-2012, 08:42 AM
As I was doing my brakes this weekend, I noticed that the rear wheel/hub fitment was very sloppy: it looks like some corrosion on the hub or inside of the wheel, and/or poor installation procedures at some point (i.e. mechanic slamming it on there), have created a less-than-ideal fit that required me to very carefully adjust the wheel when I was installing the lugs. It has essentially gone from a hub-centric fit to a lug-centric fit! This helps to exlpain why my earlier experience of re-torquing the wheels on the ground helped. Anyway, after carefully aligning the wheel, my shake is all but gone. So, it was either new front discs (which I doubt, as I couldn't get them to index to better than .005" of runout), or that wheel alignment that helped.

Just something else to consider when everyone is installing their wheels!

romeyjdogg
08-09-2012, 10:22 AM
Making some progress on this issue.........

I have pretty much boiled down it's not RPM nor load contingent, but definitely speed contingent.

I had the car in different gears, different rpm brackets and at a constant speed of 65mph and the steering wheel shake did not magnify nor diminish based upon RPM and Load variation. This leads me to believe that it's not drivetrain related at all. Should the driveshaft been "off balance" as some have proclaimed, the faster RPMS and Load would have magnified the problem.

It's also not weight contingent either. I did the same tests with less than a half tank of gas and on a complete full tank of gas. Vibrantion was still present and did not change at all either way. 50-75mph is where she finds her rhythm of vibration.

Therefore, I am on to phase II of the my testing.....

I will keep all posted.
Most of us have found the exact same to be true as well, which makes things a lot more difficult to pinpoint.

EMS Guy
08-09-2012, 11:43 AM
Most of us have found the exact same to be true as well, which makes things a lot more difficult to pinpoint.

Just took the wheels to get re-balanced and the car needed an alignment. I spoke very specifically to the tech whom stated that the balance was off on each wheel by an ever so small amount. My guess is probably .25 OZ. I will report back my findings tomorrow after I hit some highways up.

ottw
08-09-2012, 01:09 PM
You’ll find that a lot of things make our cars shake/wobble but the main culprit is the LCA bushings are two soft. Especially when lowered, they heat up because of the decreased airflow under the car and the wobble worsens, when cold they aren’t bad. The shake/wobble may start from a wheel balance issue but will continue because of these bushings. I had installed the Pedders bushings only to get a wobble at 72 mph so bad I almost crashed. Put on the rack and nothing wrong (they cooled). Finally put on rack hot and was able to get ˝ inch movement out of them! Replaced the LCA’s with the GM updated ones, added a heat shield and the problem is solved.

ottw
08-09-2012, 01:10 PM
Tried the Delrin bushings but, they destroyed themselves in 2000 miles.

Strayer
08-09-2012, 01:53 PM
As I was doing my brakes this weekend, I noticed that the rear wheel/hub fitment was very sloppy: it looks like some corrosion on the hub or inside of the wheel, and/or poor installation procedures at some point (i.e. mechanic slamming it on there), have created a less-than-ideal fit that required me to very carefully adjust the wheel when I was installing the lugs. It has essentially gone from a hub-centric fit to a lug-centric fit! This helps to exlpain why my earlier experience of re-torquing the wheels on the ground helped. Anyway, after carefully aligning the wheel, my shake is all but gone. So, it was either new front discs (which I doubt, as I couldn't get them to index to better than .005" of runout), or that wheel alignment that helped.

Just something else to consider when everyone is installing their wheels!

I have had my hub runout checked and it was very nearly perfect and had the hubs cleaned down to bare metal along with new rotors and having all corrosion removed from the back of my wheels. Helped a bit but didn't solve the problem.

romeyjdogg
08-09-2012, 04:29 PM
You’ll find that a lot of things make our cars shake/wobble but the main culprit is the LCA bushings are two soft. Especially when lowered, they heat up because of the decreased airflow under the car and the wobble worsens, when cold they aren’t bad. The shake/wobble may start from a wheel balance issue but will continue because of these bushings. I had installed the Pedders bushings only to get a wobble at 72 mph so bad I almost crashed. Put on the rack and nothing wrong (they cooled). Finally put on rack hot and was able to get ˝ inch movement out of them! Replaced the LCA’s with the GM updated ones, added a heat shield and the problem is solved.
Interesting thought, but I'm of the opinion that the softer bushings would actually help dampen any oscillations. The higher stiffness of said Delrin or poly would only transfer more of the induced oscillations.

Strayer
08-09-2012, 04:36 PM
Interesting thought, but I'm of the opinion that the softer bushings would actually help dampen any oscillations. The higher stiffness of said Delrin or poly would only transfer more of the induced oscillations.

Agreed. The stiffer bushings actually transfer more road vibration to the cabin and interrupt the oscillation. But it its still there.

ottw
08-09-2012, 04:40 PM
I agree the new factory bushings seem to work best.

SpeedRacerX
08-09-2012, 06:27 PM
You’ll find that a lot of things make our cars shake/wobble but the main culprit is the LCA bushings are two soft. Especially when lowered, they heat up because of the decreased airflow under the car and the wobble worsens, when cold they aren’t bad. The shake/wobble may start from a wheel balance issue but will continue because of these bushings. I had installed the Pedders bushings only to get a wobble at 72 mph so bad I almost crashed. Put on the rack and nothing wrong (they cooled). Finally put on rack hot and was able to get ˝ inch movement out of them! Replaced the LCA’s with the GM updated ones, added a heat shield and the problem is solved.

I have the updated GM LCAs and she shakes cold or hot.

ottw
08-09-2012, 08:26 PM
Have you changed out the drive shaft yet?

SpeedRacerX
08-09-2012, 08:35 PM
Have you changed out the drive shaft yet?

I'm laughing reading this in a goofy worn-out way thinking back to the two-years I went through this with the dealer and all the stuff they/I tried.

Wheels - factory and aftermarket
Tires - factory A/S's and aftermarket summers
Brake pads - 3 different kind
Rotors - checked and replaced
Hub runout - checked
Motor mounts - replaced
LCAs - replaced
New GM-balanced Driveshaft
Alignment(s)
Balancing(s)
Too many suspension checks and shakedowns to recall
Steering rack - checked
Strut bushings - replaced

I'm probably leaving some stuff out...

madmax 08
08-09-2012, 08:54 PM
I had the same issue with my 06 GTO, and unfortunately tried everything that most on this forum has tried. Never did find the issue. Traded it in on my '08 G8, and now have been dealing with this same issue. I find it so totally unacceptable that no one from GM has found the problem, and unfortunately they know they have us by the balls. I mean we're not all just going to give them back, and they know it. Maybe a class action law suit would make a difference?? I don't know. I loved my GTO, but got tired and frustrated with the constant shaking. Now, here I am again. Pretty pissed actually. I think it's totally unacceptable that so many of us has had our cats sitting at the dealerships for so many weeks and nothing resolved.

EMS Guy
08-10-2012, 07:53 AM
MAJOR progress, but don't want to be so confident to say that's solved just yet....

Yesterday, I took the car to a local well known suspension shop. I had them do a four wheel alignment for a few reasons. I noticed the rear wheels sat toe in some, and want to get that corrected along with my steering wheel needing to be cocked about 5* to go straight.

New alignment specs....

Front:
-.4* camber
1/32" caster

Rear:
-.5* camber
-3/32" caster

0 toe all the way around

Next, I had the shop verify the "road force balance" a local dealership did on the car when I bought it. Sure enough, every wheel was off! I had the traditionally high speed balance them to the closes they could get it using 1/4 OZ weights to ensure we had the increments needed to get her as close as we could.

The shop got it to zero on their machine and it was time to test it.

Then came time to test it out........Drove the car for about 2 miles straight at 80......................SMOOOOOOTH AS GLASS! Day two on it today.

romeyjdogg
08-10-2012, 08:38 AM
MAJOR progress, but don't want to be so confident to say that's solved just yet....

Yesterday, I took the car to a local well known suspension shop. I had them do a four wheel alignment for a few reasons. I noticed the rear wheels sat toe in some, and want to get that corrected along with my steering wheel needing to be cocked about 5* to go straight.

New alignment specs....

Front:
-.4* camber
1/32" caster

Rear:
-.5* camber
-3/32" caster

0 toe all the way around

Next, I had the shop verify the "road force balance" a local dealership did on the car when I bought it. Sure enough, every wheel was off! I had the traditionally high speed balance them to the closes they could get it using 1/4 OZ weights to ensure we had the increments needed to get her as close as we could.

The shop got it to zero on their machine and it was time to test it.

Then came time to test it out........Drove the car for about 2 miles straight at 80......................SMOOOOOOTH AS GLASS! Day two on it today.
Best of luck. Hopefully it stays away, but in my experience (and a lot of others), the shaking comes back once the car settles down after a day or two.

madmax 08
08-10-2012, 08:54 AM
Good luck to you. But correct me if I'm wrong here, but like many, my car only shakes between 50-70, and then smooths back out over that speed. Mine shakes the most right at about 54-56mph, so obviously, I try my best to stay away from that speed specifically, but, as we all know, traffic dictates your speed for the most part.

EMS Guy
08-10-2012, 10:08 AM
Best of luck. Hopefully it stays away, but in my experience (and a lot of others), the shaking comes back once the car settles down after a day or two.

It should not change. If it does, that means something changed. Suspensions geometry, loss of a wheel weight etc....The ONLY dynamic assuming all things equal and nothing changing for that to occur would be fuel volume in your tank which would lead into a weight issue of the fuel changing suspension geometry.

Good luck to you. But correct me if I'm wrong here, but like many, my car only shakes between 50-70, and then smooths back out over that speed. Mine shakes the most right at about 54-56mph, so obviously, I try my best to stay away from that speed specifically, but, as we all know, traffic dictates your speed for the most part.

Mine shook from 50+ mph and got worse as I accelerated past 70mph

romeyjdogg
08-10-2012, 12:08 PM
It should not change. If it does, that means something changed. Suspensions geometry, loss of a wheel weight etc....The ONLY dynamic assuming all things equal and nothing changing for that to occur would be fuel volume in your tank which would lead into a weight issue of the fuel changing suspension geometry.



Mine shook from 50+ mph and got worse as I accelerated past 70mph
I'm just reporting what has happened to the rest of us. Once you set the car back down, it takes a while to settle back to nominal height. It doesn't automatically happen...

Your situation actually does sound like wheel balance though. Mine never got worse at higher speeds.

Strayer
08-10-2012, 01:21 PM
If your shake gets progressively worse as you accelerate, you do not have the same problem as the rest of us (LUCKY YOU)!; just a regular wheel balance problem.

EMS Guy
08-10-2012, 01:51 PM
If your shake gets progressively worse as you accelerate, you do not have the same problem as the rest of us (LUCKY YOU)!; just a regular wheel balance problem.

It's funny. It did at first get worse when I got the car, but then as time went on it was just stable at any speed above 50+mph until yesterday.

TFocker
08-10-2012, 02:19 PM
I just bought an 08 GT with 28,500 miles and noticed this problem and I'm glad I checked here. I initially suspected wheel balancing because I'm on aftermarket wheels/tires. I'm having them re-balanced next week and hoping to resolve the issue. If not, it seems like there's tons of additional troubleshooting to do!

EMS Guy
08-13-2012, 09:08 AM
Well, this entire weekend she was an utter champ and smooth as glass.....

EMS Guy
08-13-2012, 09:09 AM
MAJOR progress, but don't want to be so confident to say that's solved just yet....

Yesterday, I took the car to a local well known suspension shop. I had them do a four wheel alignment for a few reasons. I noticed the rear wheels sat toe in some, and want to get that corrected along with my steering wheel needing to be cocked about 5* to go straight.

New alignment specs....

Front:
-.4* camber
1/32" caster

Rear:
-.5* camber
-3/32" caster

0 toe all the way around

Next, I had the shop verify the "road force balance" a local dealership did on the car when I bought it. Sure enough, every wheel was off! I had the traditionally high speed balance them to the closes they could get it using 1/4 OZ weights to ensure we had the increments needed to get her as close as we could.

The shop got it to zero on their machine and it was time to test it.

Then came time to test it out........Drove the car for about 2 miles straight at 80......................SMOOOOOOTH AS GLASS! Day two on it today.

I just bought an 08 GT with 28,500 miles and noticed this problem and I'm glad I checked here. I initially suspected wheel balancing because I'm on aftermarket wheels/tires. I'm having them re-balanced next week and hoping to resolve the issue. If not, it seems like there's tons of additional troubleshooting to do!

Before you start throwing tons of $$ and parts at it. Start with the 4 wheel alingment. Use my specs listed above and have the tires and wheels high speed balanced.

finallink
08-14-2012, 02:04 PM
And after you throw tons of money at it and it still vibrates... get a new driveshaft. Lots other folks got rid of their vibration by getting an aftermarket driveshaft. I don't have much faith in the stock G8 driveshaft. If the vibration is the same at 40mph, 75mph or 110 then you more than likely have an imbalanced driveshaft. Just toss it and get a new one my advice.

djerickd
08-14-2012, 04:07 PM
time for that carbon fiber shaft!!!!

finallink
08-14-2012, 11:24 PM
Has anyone here changed out their power steering pump to diagnose the steering wheel vibration issue? gmpartsshop.com has it listed for 98.53 for the G8 GT and GXP at 127. Weird how the GXP has a core where the GT does not.

I was thinking of doing it for maintenance since I hit 100K and don't want to wait until it breaks like the serpentine belt.

SpeedRacerX
08-15-2012, 06:35 AM
Anyone see Motorweek last night?

Goss' Garage segment did a brief snippet on tire aspect ratios and spent a minute talking about low profile tires, road force issues, steering wheel shake, bad tire, the Mfrs warranty for that and how many Mfrs have a terrible guaranty on the road force balancing portion, and if all else fails, replace the tire.

Interesting to see that we're not alone in the World on this...

fatback
08-15-2012, 11:28 AM
Mine is definitely tire related, though barely noticeable.

Symptom: Car sits for a few days, minor steering wheel shake when I get up over 50mph on highway. Can't say is goes away after a few miles, more like when the tires get up to pressure. Maybe it's a NASCAR thing, I'm too tight until my tires pressure comes up.

Anyway, I'm smooth a glass by the time I get anywhere 10-15 miles.

finallink
08-15-2012, 09:40 PM
speedracerx are you saying no matter how much money we spend on replacing parts on our G8 its always going to be the tires?

But I like throwing money at my G8. What will I do if I can't make fun of GM anymore?
Besides no matter what we do we can't fix it anyway so you might as well have fun. Sure beats the casino.

http://www.motorweek.org/features/goss_garage/tires_ride_quality

SpeedRacerX
08-15-2012, 09:46 PM
speedracerx are you saying no matter how much money we spend on replacing parts on our G8 its always going to be the tires?

But I like throwing money at my G8. What will I do if I can't make fun of GM anymore?
Besides no matter what we do we can't fix it anyway so you might as well have fun. Sure beats the casino.

http://www.motorweek.org/features/goss_garage/tires_ride_quality

That's cool you found that link.

I'll probably keep tossing money and parts at it too.... :pir_flag:

One day, though, this " $%!~ is going to get old."

finallink
08-15-2012, 09:55 PM
There isn't anything on the Net I can't find ....muwahahahaha
Try the u tube version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-HNPHurKw4

EMS Guy
08-16-2012, 02:30 PM
I agree it's more alignment and tire related than anything. My car is proof.

Turbo301
08-16-2012, 02:36 PM
I agree it's more alignment and tire related than anything. My car is proof.


Another very strong statement!

Guys, I think we need to agree that there are multiple causes of steering wheel shake. So many people say that so many different things have cured their shake, there CANNOT be one simple answer to this problem! Tires may be the cause on one car, but the steering rack could be the cause on another. Shaking in the steering is a very generic symptom.

EMS Guy
08-16-2012, 02:41 PM
Another very strong statement!

Guys, I think we need to agree that there are multiple causes of steering wheel shake. So many people say that so many different things have cured their shake, there CANNOT be one simple answer to this problem! Tires may be the cause on one car, but the steering rack could be the cause on another. Shaking in the steering is a very generic symptom.

Yes my statement is quite bold. The reason why is this in cliffs notes format....

1) found G8 GT on dealer lot
2) test drove with bald Eagle tires on it; steering wheel shook 50+mph
3) bought car, they installed new tires on their Hunter Road Force tire machine
4) steering wheel still shook 50+mph
5) did a week or so of troubleshooting on my own and determined it was suspension and tire related
6) took car for 4 wheel alignment and corrected rear toe significantly
7) had all four tires rebalanced at another shop
8) smooth as glass and have been since

What specifically is so different about this rack than any other car? I doubt GM used Delrin busings or something insanely hard to cause resonant vibrations.

romeyjdogg
08-16-2012, 03:46 PM
Yes my statement is quite bold. The reason why is this in cliffs notes format....

1) found G8 GT on dealer lot
2) test drove with bald Eagle tires on it; steering wheel shook 50+mph
3) bought car, they installed new tires on their Hunter Road Force tire machine
4) steering wheel still shook 50+mph
5) did a week or so of troubleshooting on my own and determined it was suspension and tire related
6) took car for 4 wheel alignment and corrected rear toe significantly
7) had all four tires rebalanced at another shop
8) smooth as glass and have been since

What specifically is so different about this rack than any other car? I doubt GM used Delrin busings or something insanely hard to cause resonant vibrations.
I would like to hear your rebuttal for the guys who have tried over 6 wheel and tire combinations as well as multiple different alignments without any let up...

Gavine
08-16-2012, 03:47 PM
Mine is definitely tire related, though barely noticeable.

Symptom: Car sits for a few days, minor steering wheel shake when I get up over 50mph on highway. Can't say is goes away after a few miles, more like when the tires get up to pressure. Maybe it's a NASCAR thing, I'm too tight until my tires pressure comes up.

Anyway, I'm smooth a glass by the time I get anywhere 10-15 miles.

Exact same thing for me. I have a GT with 19-inch and OEM Bridgestones.

Strayer
08-16-2012, 04:05 PM
I would like to hear your rebuttal for the guys who have tried over 6 wheel and tire combinations as well as multiple different alignments without any let up...

2 G8s, 4 sets of wheels, 8 sets of tires, several alignments conducted at EACH of the following: Firestone (3 different shops), 1 independent, 4 GM dealerships. High speed balancing done at 3 GM dealerships, road force balancing done at each of the 3 Firestones.

I either have the WORST LUCK in tires/wheels or its something else lol.

romeyjdogg
08-16-2012, 04:34 PM
2 G8s, 4 sets of wheels, 8 sets of tires, several alignments conducted at EACH of the following: Firestone (3 different shops), 1 independent, 4 GM dealerships. High speed balancing done at 3 GM dealerships, road force balancing done at each of the 3 Firestones.

I either have the WORST LUCK in tires/wheels or its something else lol.
Methinks bad luck. Okay, I hide now :wall:

ColdFuzion
08-16-2012, 07:23 PM
2 sets of rims, 2 sets of tires, 4 road force balances and numerous other balances - 3 different dealers and 1 independent. Still got shakey shakey until recently my air pressure in my tires fell to about 31 +/- 1 psi in the fronts.

EMS Guy
08-17-2012, 08:39 AM
I would like to hear your rebuttal for the guys who have tried over 6 wheel and tire combinations as well as multiple different alignments without any let up...

Bring me the car, and I will perform similar troubleshooting on the setup.

EMS Guy
08-17-2012, 08:40 AM
2 G8s, 4 sets of wheels, 8 sets of tires, several alignments conducted at EACH of the following: Firestone (3 different shops), 1 independent, 4 GM dealerships. High speed balancing done at 3 GM dealerships, road force balancing done at each of the 3 Firestones.

I either have the WORST LUCK in tires/wheels or its something else lol.

Post your alignment specs. Mine are on the previous page.

Strayer
08-17-2012, 03:13 PM
Post your alignment specs. Mine are on the previous page.

-7.5 caster
-1 Camber Front and Rear
0 Toe Front
.05 Toe In Rear

This is what I use at the moment, though it has been set to OEM specs by many a dealer and Firestone about a bajillion times. And I did request printouts each time to verify.

romeyjdogg
08-17-2012, 10:19 PM
Bring me the car, and I will perform similar troubleshooting on the setup.
I've had multiple different alignments on my vehicle. I've had three sets of tires on there as well. The worst ones (RS-As) were the smoothest.

Tried Hankooks and then Michelin Pilot Super Sports. All of them shook. It sounds like you're advocating a normal dynamic balance, however, a road force machine is more accurate at correcting for variations in the wheel/tire combination (due to variances in tire spring rate) that a traditional balance can't pick up.

Only thing that "fixed" mine to an acceptable level was road forcing them all to <= 12 lbs. Something to note is that others have done the same without success.

EMS Guy
08-20-2012, 08:18 AM
I've had multiple different alignments on my vehicle. I've had three sets of tires on there as well. The worst ones (RS-As) were the smoothest.

Tried Hankooks and then Michelin Pilot Super Sports. All of them shook. It sounds like you're advocating a normal dynamic balance, however, a road force machine is more accurate at correcting for variations in the wheel/tire combination (due to variances in tire spring rate) that a traditional balance can't pick up.

Only thing that "fixed" mine to an acceptable level was road forcing them all to <= 12 lbs. Something to note is that others have done the same without success.

Regardless of tire balancing equipment, remember the tools don't make the tech. If the tech doesn't give a rats ass about his job or your car, then it doesn't matter if he has a $1M machine.....it will still come out crappy. Same notion for the tech that cares about his job and your car, but doesn't know enough about using the machine at his job.

flensr
08-20-2012, 12:54 PM
Keeping the tire pressures the same as they were during the road force balance may be important as well. My steering wheel recently started wobbling again and when I checked, the pressures in the front tires were 3-4 lbs low. I put them back up to spec (36 per the door sticker) and the wobble decreased again.

romeyjdogg
08-20-2012, 01:21 PM
Keeping the tire pressures the same as they were during the road force balance may be important as well. My steering wheel recently started wobbling again and when I checked, the pressures in the front tires were 3-4 lbs low. I put them back up to spec (36 per the door sticker) and the wobble decreased again.
That's actually a very interesting thought and I'm inclined to agree with you in this case, even though it's absurd.

A different tire pressure will produce a different effective "spring constant" in the tire. So, if you're balanced on the Hunter at 36 psi, lowering or raising the tire pressure could increase the road force.

EMS Guy
08-20-2012, 01:25 PM
That's actually a very interesting thought and I'm inclined to agree with you in this case, even though it's absurd.

A different tire pressure will produce a different effective "spring constant" in the tire. So, if you're balanced on the Hunter at 36 psi, lowering or raising the tire pressure could increase the road force.

I run 36 in FR and 40 in RR

Gavine
08-20-2012, 04:00 PM
I run 36 in FR and 40 in RR

EMS Guy: Do you have 19" or 18" rims?

EMS Guy
08-21-2012, 08:09 AM
EMS Guy: Do you have 19" or 18" rims?

stock 18's on some BS rubber. 245/45 Mirada Sport GTX (some cheap lesser brand of Yoko) that the stealership put on it to sell it to me.

p-s-p-p
09-02-2012, 06:32 PM
My 09.5 G8 GT came with the non-sport package 18" wheels and Goodyear LS-2 (why a touring tire and not the performance RS-A, I have no idea). For 40,000+ miles, it was always smooth, at any speed. Never any steering wheel shake.

Two months ago, I got aftermarket wheels and new tires. Stayed at 18" and went with TSW Caldwell's. I picked the Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position over the Continental Extreme Contact DWS. Ever since, I have had the infamous steering wheel shake between about 52-75 mph. I have had the tires balanced 4 separate times, including a road force balance on a Hunter machine. And 2 alignments. Still have the shake.

So far, I don't regret the wheel choice. If one of the stock wheels had been damaged, I would have had to pay $900+ from a dealership to get a replacement. Instead, I now have 4 new, good looking wheels and a full-size spare in the trunk, all for the same price. I don't regret the tire choice. In both wet and dry conditions, it should blow away the previous tires. But I'm getting sick of the steering wheel shake.

I've read a lot of the posts in this thread. The fact that some have had the steering wheel shake on their OEM wheels and tires makes it hard to conclude that the cause is the aftermarket wheels or the better tires.

But ... I have to wonder: maybe the softer tread and stiffer sidewalls of the new tires is partly to blame? Maybe the different offset of the wheels is partly to blame?

Turbo301
09-03-2012, 11:15 AM
I recommend removing the wheels and re-installing them, being VERY careful to centre them and align the lug tapers into the cups. I have found that, if you just throw the wheels on and torque down the lugs (as most mechanics do for most cars), you can really exacerbate the shake.

I rotated my tires yesterday, and I hand-tightened each lug in order, being sure to seat them all a bit at a time. Then I lightly torqued them with a ratchet, then 80 ft-lbs with an impact wrench. I lowered the car and torqued to 110 ft-lbs on the ground with a torque wrench. My shake is 99% gone.

Previously, when I had just put the wheels on and torqued to 110 ft-lbs with the impact wrench and that's it, I had shake so bad my car was making a humming noise at 70 mph (same tires, etc.)!

People get all kinds of parts replaced to fix their shake, but I have to wonder if what I've described above is the root cause of a lot of peoples' shaking: after all, the wheels come off and go back on for most of the fixes people describe, and if the wheels get properly aligned (either by chance or care) when they go back on, then perhaps this makes it LOOK like it was the fault of whatever part that was replaced? Just a theory, but my suggestion is a cheap, quick and easy thing to try first.

flensr
09-03-2012, 11:22 AM
Also, after road force balancing (make sure pressures are spot-on before balancing and then keep pressures consistent) put the best 2 tires/wheels on the front and leave them there. Yea the tires may wear out faster due to not being rotated but if you can stop the vibration then early tire replacement may be worth it.

Turbo301
09-03-2012, 11:24 AM
One should be able to rotate their tires without fear of the shake, though.
Balancing the wheel/tire assembly is one thing, but making sure that that assembly is then balanced on the car's hub assembly is critical, IMO.

Red Arrowhead
09-11-2012, 08:37 AM
I had my RS-As (G8 2009.5) replaced at around 27K with some Toyo Extensas. My tire guy mentioned at the time that my discs were warped and showed me the hot spots. I had noticed a little shake. The dealer turned them them but I had to buy new pads - you know - "brake parts not replaced under warranty" thing. Guess what? It didn't help. And the shake got worse and worse. Particularly down hill braking from 50-60 mph.

Not being real happy with my dealer already, I took it to a Chevy dealer nearby who replaced the front control arms under the 09-03-08-008 TSB. Guess what? NEW car! Really shocked at the difference. The only shake left is extremely minor and I'm sure thats due to the old discs. And if the first dealer hadn't messed with it first, I was told they could have done my brakes under warranty. :( Got some new Roto-Tech drilled and slotted rotors with Hawk pads and Russell lines on the way. :) That should make everything all better again.

finallink
09-11-2012, 12:25 PM
It's been over 4 weeks now and 1,200 miles since the road force balance on the new RE11's. It has been nothing but smooth sailing on the Arizona freeways.

IcedSmoke
09-11-2012, 01:04 PM
I'm glad I found this post. I thought I was crazy. I had some pretty bad shaking between 50 and 60 mph. I have now replaced front and back rotors and the shaking is very very minor, but still there. I guess I'll just give up...

Turbo301
09-11-2012, 01:15 PM
Try the wheel re-mounting technique I described in my earlier post.

romeyjdogg
09-11-2012, 03:01 PM
Re-torquing and clicking the wheels off with a torque wrench never worked for me. I have gone through this exercise countless times. Shake comes and goes whenever it pleases.

Have had 7 road force balances, 2 alignments, 4 different sets of tires and now 2 different sets of wheels. Can we all agree that something in the geometry is not right and inducing an unwanted harmonic?

Turbo301
09-11-2012, 03:17 PM
In my case, it wasn't just a question of re-torquing, but of positioning the wheels before applying any torque. However, there could easily be something a bit off in a given car's suspension geometry that could cause shake; that'd be awfully hard to find, like a needle in a haystack!

Back in a Pontiac
09-11-2012, 03:55 PM
Re-torquing and clicking the wheels off with a torque wrench never worked for me. I have gone through this exercise countless times. Shake comes and goes whenever it pleases.

Have had 7 road force balances, 2 alignments, 4 different sets of tires and now 2 different sets of wheels. Can we all agree that something in the geometry is not right and inducing an unwanted harmonic?

I will cosign this statement

romeyjdogg
09-12-2012, 09:52 AM
In my case, it wasn't just a question of re-torquing, but of positioning the wheels before applying any torque. However, there could easily be something a bit off in a given car's suspension geometry that could cause shake; that'd be awfully hard to find, like a needle in a haystack!
Glad it has worked for you, however, it seems the point of conical lugs is to center the wheel to the lug.

Also, now my wheels have hub centric rings, so there's no putting the wheel on incorrectly. Still have some shake...

Turbo301
09-12-2012, 10:07 AM
Indeed, that is the point of the conical lugs, but it doesn't always work. The hubcentric rings should, though, you're right. Still, if they're plastic, they may have some give that the torquing of the wheels can overcome.

SRG963
09-12-2012, 10:10 AM
Glad it has worked for you, however, it seems the point of conical lugs is to center the wheel to the lug.

Also, now my wheels have hub centric rings, so there's no putting the wheel on incorrectly. Still have some shake...

Have you tried running higher pressure (40psi) in the tires to see if it goes away?

Just throwing out ideas, as it seems you've tried everything.

I have shake when the tires are cold/flat spotted.

I also had shake when there was a difference of 3psi side to side.
(Apparently the service dept. only checked one side lol).

romeyjdogg
09-12-2012, 11:04 AM
Have you tried running higher pressure (40psi) in the tires to see if it goes away?

Just throwing out ideas, as it seems you've tried everything.

I have shake when the tires are cold/flat spotted.

I also had shake when there was a difference of 3psi side to side.
(Apparently the service dept. only checked one side lol).
Yes, I've played around with tire pressures and it makes the shake go away for a few hours, then it's back no matter what TP combo I run.

Also, my hub rings are aluminum, Turbo.

finallink
09-13-2012, 06:17 AM
I want to share some information for those still trying to fix their issue. If you have coilovers and the steering wheel shake you may want to consider replacing the coilovers for gas charged or stock struts. I developed the steering wheel shake IMMEDIATELY following the installation of Pedders XA Coilovers. After removing the XA's, I put gas FE3's struts on and a new set of tires. Problem was finally fixed with a road force balance, only one tire was found to be impropertly balanced. The coilovers can cause the suspension to put an enormous amount of pressure on your tires against the road and may have a factor in making your tires square.

I replaced every single component of my suspension and spent a good chunk of change trying to fix my issue. It all comes down to your tires and quite possibly your super stiff struts shoving your tires into the ground. But some people will still refuse to see the problem for what it is and go on throwing money at it. I learned my lesson no more coilovers for me.

romeyjdogg
09-13-2012, 07:48 AM
I want to share some information for those still trying to fix their issue. If you have coilovers and the steering wheel shake you may want to consider replacing the coilovers for gas charged or stock struts. I developed the steering wheel shake IMMEDIATELY following the installation of Pedders XA Coilovers. After removing the XA's, I put gas FE3's struts on and a new set of tires. Problem was finally fixed with a road force balance, only one tire was found to be impropertly balanced. The coilovers can cause the suspension to put an enormous amount of pressure on your tires against the road and may have a factor in making your tires square.

I replaced every single component of my suspension and spent a good chunk of change trying to fix my issue. It all comes down to your tires and quite possibly your super stiff struts shoving your tires into the ground. But some people will still refuse to see the problem for what it is and go on throwing money at it. I learned my lesson no more coilovers for me.
Interesting. Glad yours was rectified. FWIW, I have FE3 gas charged shocks and struts.

Strayer
09-13-2012, 12:37 PM
I want to share some information for those still trying to fix their issue. If you have coilovers and the steering wheel shake you may want to consider replacing the coilovers for gas charged or stock struts. I developed the steering wheel shake IMMEDIATELY following the installation of Pedders XA Coilovers. After removing the XA's, I put gas FE3's struts on and a new set of tires. Problem was finally fixed with a road force balance, only one tire was found to be impropertly balanced. The coilovers can cause the suspension to put an enormous amount of pressure on your tires against the road and may have a factor in making your tires square.

I replaced every single component of my suspension and spent a good chunk of change trying to fix my issue. It all comes down to your tires and quite possibly your super stiff struts shoving your tires into the ground. But some people will still refuse to see the problem for what it is and go on throwing money at it. I learned my lesson no more coilovers for me.

I had the shake before my BC Coilovers, and during, and again after I just took them off. Not strut related imo!

Back in a Pontiac
09-14-2012, 09:27 AM
i have had a lot of cars in my time on this earth, worked on them, built them, etc
Low profile tires, truck tires, etc
coil over cars, shocks, struts


not one of them had a shake that cannot be easily fixed, not one of them so sensitive to air pressure in the tires ( as alleged by others ), not one of them so sensitive to wheels being centered and torqued ( who has ever had to think about putting stinking wheels on their cars in such great detail before ? )

I aint buying it- there is a issue here that is being ignored, GM is leaving us out to dry they do not care about this issue- SOMETHING needs to be done. Tell me what part to buy and I will pay for it- but come up with a fix. Are there any attorneys who own G8s? Online petition? Where should we go with this?

Turbo301
09-14-2012, 09:41 AM
Welcome to "new and improved": just like in aerospace, sometimes engineers make something so retardedly complex that it ends up making more problems than it alleges to solve.

sssmokin99
09-14-2012, 11:22 AM
But why, then, do some of us simply not have the issue? My fronts were road force balanced the week after I picked the car up new, and I have not had any issue with vibration since then- and yes, Im thankful, because this type of thing drives me nuts! My car has the 19" wheels with Bridgestone summer tires, btw.

Turbo301
09-14-2012, 11:27 AM
Has anyone gotten new hub/wheelbearing assemblies, front and rear? I'd just be interested to know if that helped or hindered.

Back in a Pontiac
09-14-2012, 12:06 PM
But why, then, do some of us simply not have the issue? My fronts were road force balanced the week after I picked the car up new, and I have not had any issue with vibration since then- and yes, Im thankful, because this type of thing drives me nuts! My car has the 19" wheels with Bridgestone summer tires, btw.

next week might shake again

sssmokin99
09-14-2012, 12:42 PM
next week might shake again


True, but it has been well over three years and no shake. It sort of makes me think there is some part, as yet unidentified, that was out of spec from the OEM and some cars got bad ones and others didnt. People have balanced tires till they are like family at the tire stores, done alignments day in and day out, etc., and still it shakes. On THAT car. GM warranty claim data would be interesting to analyze, but none of us will get our hands on that.

I also wonder if drivers of the Holden badged (and for that matter all the other variations) have any of these issues. I haven't paid enough attention on this forum to notice a trend with those cars...

Back in a Pontiac
09-25-2012, 10:15 AM
anyone have anything new to report?

SRG963
09-25-2012, 10:17 AM
No wheel wobble here :)

<bragger

Back in a Pontiac
09-25-2012, 10:30 AM
i had none on the way to work this morning, but had it on the way home yesterday, lol

sssmokin99
09-25-2012, 11:15 AM
I agree. I have always installed wheels this way on all of my cars; it is just habit now. But it does seem like it would be even more critical when you have a tire/wheel assembly where the wheel portion accounts for such a large amount of the mass. I also have not rotated them, although that is mostly due to my forgetting to do it, and maybe a little fear of creating a problem....




I recommend removing the wheels and re-installing them, being VERY careful to centre them and align the lug tapers into the cups. I have found that, if you just throw the wheels on and torque down the lugs (as most mechanics do for most cars), you can really exacerbate the shake.

I rotated my tires yesterday, and I hand-tightened each lug in order, being sure to seat them all a bit at a time. Then I lightly torqued them with a ratchet, then 80 ft-lbs with an impact wrench. I lowered the car and torqued to 110 ft-lbs on the ground with a torque wrench. My shake is 99% gone.

Previously, when I had just put the wheels on and torqued to 110 ft-lbs with the impact wrench and that's it, I had shake so bad my car was making a humming noise at 70 mph (same tires, etc.)!

People get all kinds of parts replaced to fix their shake, but I have to wonder if what I've described above is the root cause of a lot of peoples' shaking: after all, the wheels come off and go back on for most of the fixes people describe, and if the wheels get properly aligned (either by chance or care) when they go back on, then perhaps this makes it LOOK like it was the fault of whatever part that was replaced? Just a theory, but my suggestion is a cheap, quick and easy thing to try first.

romeyjdogg
09-28-2012, 12:56 PM
I still get the shake randomly. Front suspension checks out (by multiple mechanics and dealers) and all wheels are road force balanced. No idea what it is at this point...

Strayer
09-28-2012, 01:08 PM
Still shaking here, just had it confirmed by an AC Delco shop. They said that they cannot pin point where it is coming from (and that it isn't wheel or tires) and aren't going to spend the time looking, because it would take too much time and need parts just being thrown at the car.

My next step is to bring it to my own independent guy, and have him give the wheel bearings/lug studs a good thorough check. If those check out I'm going straight for a new steering rack. Inners and Outers.

romeyjdogg
09-28-2012, 01:49 PM
Still shaking here, just had it confirmed by an AC Delco shop. They said that they cannot pin point where it is coming from (and that it isn't wheel or tires) and aren't going to spend the time looking, because it would take too much time and need parts just being thrown at the car.

My next step is to bring it to my own independent guy, and have him give the wheel bearings/lug studs a good thorough check. If those check out I'm going straight for a new steering rack. Inners and Outers.
Yeah the rack makes some sense, but I know some spent the coin on one with no luck.

Also, I would think if the inner or outer tie rods were bad, there should be some play in the wheel if you grab it and try to move it around. Mine has absolutely no movement nor do I hear anything clicking, etc.

mrbirdman330
09-28-2012, 10:46 PM
Having balanced enough tires and having done my own, I will say this that wheels requiring Alloy I or II are a serious pain to balance even road force balance. There is a reason, you static balance them only you can not do a dynamic balance. Static is what cures wheel hop on an unbalanced tire but without being able to put a wheel weight on the outside to provide a proper dynamic balance the chances for a wheel shake are high. Alloy I will reduce the chances of a shake since you can hammer weights on the inside lip of the rim then place sticky weights behind the spokes for static. Also remember Wheels and tires are not 100% round. I'll probably have this backwards but usually where the valvestem is located on the Wheel that is the lowest part. New tires have dots on the sidewall to indicate where the highest part of the tire is. Of course most will tell you that its pointless to dot match when mounting. It's not pointless and can make a serious difference in how the wheel and tire balance out. Another thing I may suggest, we ride on rubber bands literally. There is no sidewall to our tires we run, no real cushion for impact of bumps, cracks and or potholes. Even balancing out a tire may hide you have a bent rim to where its not really seen by the eye but its there. You can use a balance machine to test and see if rims are out of whack. I would also not rule out for some that guys could have slipped belts in your tires and haven't yet felt the effects yet of radial pull from it only the vibration. I hope this gives some of you some insight and also the torque specs for the G8 on the lug nuts is 125ft-lb, any lesser and that can also cause a vibration since the lugs are not fully seated and set on the studs.

TheStevo
09-29-2012, 02:30 PM
I honestly have the shake every day and some days it is really bad where u can see the steering wheel shake. But i also have a problem when i hit the brakes theres no shake more than normal, and some times i can hit the brakes and again, you can see the wheel move.

Is there possibly something is my case that can cause it shake, then get really bad, then go back?

Also is there any place theres like a list of what people have had work for them??

mrbirdman330
09-29-2012, 02:33 PM
^ Something is loose or coming loose. Have your whole front end checked out from bushings of all to ball joints and tie rods. Tell them not to be scared to hang like a monkey from the front sub frame to find out what's loose. I have to do that a few times to find some bad control arms.

TheStevo
09-29-2012, 02:39 PM
The problem is though everytime i have shaken it down or a shop they dont see anything...

flensr
09-29-2012, 02:57 PM
The whole front end is sensitive to any disturbance. Braking on uneven surfaces can upset it enough to cause the shake, which is why it doesn't ALWAYS do it when braking.

Try fiddling with tire pressures, get the tires/wheels road force balanced, and get the best two tires on the front. Once you find a "good" combination of balance and pressures, don't change ANYTHING.

I've cut 95% of my steering wheel wobble by getting the tires rebalanced until the wobble died down, and then just keeping the pressures good. I haven't rotated the tires since the wobble mostly went away, and it's stayed away for quite some time now.

TheStevo
09-29-2012, 02:59 PM
I would put the best two on front but mine are staggered :P

also what pressures seem to work good for you?

mrbirdman330
09-29-2012, 03:12 PM
You have to understand what a front end inspection is, taking the car out for a test drive of maybe 40mph. Then taking the car and putting it in the air, shake the front tires up,down, left and right to see if there are loose tie rods, ball joints, and bearings. Then taking a flashlight and checking the bushings on the control arms for cracks. That's it nothing else, if they don't see a crack in the bushings or any sign of deterioration they assume its a good bushing. Sometimes you have to grab and really put weight on the control arm to see if the bushing budges in any form, second use proper torque specs on your lug nuts. Too tight causes rotors to warp from excess pressure on them, too loose and you get a wheel off. Also see my earlier large post in full.

flensr
09-29-2012, 03:24 PM
I use sticker pressures, 36 front 39 rear. Biased a touch high seems to work well. Any difference between front left and right seems to make it worse.

Back in a Pontiac
09-29-2012, 04:32 PM
Having balanced enough tires and having done my own, I will say this that wheels requiring Alloy I or II are a serious pain to balance even road force balance. There is a reason, you static balance them only you can not do a dynamic balance. Static is what cures wheel hop on an unbalanced tire but without being able to put a wheel weight on the outside to provide a proper dynamic balance the chances for a wheel shake are high. Alloy I will reduce the chances of a shake since you can hammer weights on the inside lip of the rim then place sticky weights behind the spokes for static.


why of all the cars I have owned is the G8 the only one with these sensitive wheel balance issue?

TheStevo
09-29-2012, 04:41 PM
Because racecar :D

romeyjdogg
09-29-2012, 05:53 PM
why of all the cars I have owned is the G8 the only one with these sensitive wheel balance issue?
That's the exact question nobody has been able to answer. This car isn't a Porsche or even an M3, lets be honest with ourselves here. A vehicle this sensitive to "imbalance" or whatever else is an issue. I know everyone is trying to help out, but this is NOT a wheel or tire issue.

I will reiterate that I've personally had 3 different sets of wheels on the car and 4 different sets of tires on. I've had my wheels and tires road forced 11 times. I have brand new wheels and brand new Michelin pilot super sport tires. I have also had the car aligned 5 separate times. I've also had new struts, shocks and springs put on. I would guess that I've had 7 different people look at the issue and nobody has had a clue. Everything is tight in the front, even if I really force things around. Lugs are all torqued in a star pattern with a torque wrench.

It's laughable at this point how stupid this problem is.

TheStevo
09-29-2012, 06:41 PM
^^^^ I Agree with Him

mrbirdman330
09-29-2012, 08:37 PM
I'm believing that it is a control arm situation and alignments will not cure wheel shaking. That's the first thing they teach in alignment class. I'm still willing to bet control arm bushings are bad on many of your cars. I've never had a wheel shake with my G8.

TheStevo
09-30-2012, 04:33 AM
I still had the shake right after they changed all 4 of mine...

mrbirdman330
09-30-2012, 09:12 AM
I still believe its control arms.

TheStevo
09-30-2012, 02:00 PM
...

mrbirdman330
09-30-2012, 10:28 PM
You have said the problem is intermittent correct? It comes and goes, there in lies the answer which faulty parts have been put on. Parts have a 50% chance of working properly out of the box. Never ever walk out of a store or shop believing that a car is fixed when the part can fail two days down the road. Believe me warranty work is a PITA and I deal with it on a constant basis. So there in lies where I believe the control arms are the issue something is not right under there. The problem doesn't lie with the tires or rims, its something in the steering and suspension. Now my second question is going to be, was your G8 part of the recall on the control arms?

TheStevo
10-01-2012, 12:01 AM
as far as i know there was never an actual recall on the control arms, just a TSB, last winter they were squeaking or whatever and they replaced all four of them

mrbirdman330
10-01-2012, 09:12 AM
I'd have them replaced again.

Back in a Pontiac
10-01-2012, 09:43 AM
I'd have them replaced again.

can you imagine that conversation at the dealer?

mrbirdman330
10-01-2012, 11:30 AM
Nothing out of the ordinary, you go to have the problem fixed not persist. There in lies faulty parts, its more common than what people can even realize.

Back in a Pontiac
10-01-2012, 02:17 PM
thank you for your thoughts birdman, but it is the wheel balance or the control arms?

EMS Guy
10-01-2012, 02:21 PM
thank you for your thoughts birdman, but it is the wheel balance or the control arms?

For me it disappeared when I re-balanced the tires and got an alignment.

romeyjdogg
10-01-2012, 02:24 PM
I've had the same updated control arms on my car for around 35k miles. Didn't have the shake with them for 15k but now have had it for 20k with the same arms. There is no play in them, as I've checked about 10 times. Mine started when the dealer replaced my collapsed strut mounts. I've since replaced with poly mounts and I still get the same shake.

EMS Guy
10-01-2012, 02:30 PM
I've had the same updated control arms on my car for around 35k miles. Didn't have the shake with them for 15k but now have had it for 20k with the same arms. There is no play in them, as I've checked about 10 times. Mine started when the dealer replaced my collapsed strut mounts. I've since replaced with poly mounts and I still get the same shake.

POLY anything is going to transfer vibrations and such.

romeyjdogg
10-01-2012, 04:37 PM
POLY anything is going to transfer vibrations and such.
Understood. My point was that my car started shaking when my OEM mounts were replaced with non-collapsed OEM mounts. Then, I went to poly with no change in shaking...

PSMG8GT
10-01-2012, 06:03 PM
I just started having the same problem, & automatically thought it was the control arms just because of the history g8board has had with them needing to be replaced. Vibration at all speeds occurs, even after having my wheels balanced twice by discount tire. Could my power steering pump being on its last limb possibly have anything to do with it?

romeyjdogg
10-01-2012, 06:49 PM
I just started having the same problem, & automatically thought it was the control arms just because of the history g8board has had with them needing to be replaced. Vibration at all speeds occurs, even after having my wheels balanced twice by discount tire. Could my power steering pump being on its last limb possibly have anything to do with it?
I think the easiest way to check control arms and tie rods is to jack up the front wheel(s) and try to move the wheel around. If there's any play, it's bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YBYk5gzyM4

One thing we haven't gone into is the power steering pump or fluid, but that's a good thought. Not sure what we could check on that ?

PSMG8GT
10-01-2012, 07:12 PM
I know for sure my power steering pump is going out. When driving slow, I have to muscle the hell out of it to get it to turn, when I go above say 5 mph it goes away. Will be getting this replaced within the next day or two. Haven't noticed the shake until post steering pump problems so hopefully it's a pretty accurate hypothesis. Just wanting to see if any of the mechanical geniuses on here would be able to say whether the pump would even be able to cause this problem? After 43 pages, the results are pretty depressing.

mrbirdman330
10-01-2012, 10:12 PM
For the strut mounts, most likely the job wasn't done right or there is another underlying issue, from my take is that this front suspension is very fine tuned and incredibly sensitive to any unnatural changes to it. I see this growing a lot with all brands though, it is possible when the strut mounts were changed they could have in possibility damaged the strut in some way. Don't rule it out but its a theory to go by. Check under the strut mount plate with the car in the air as best as you can to see if there are any cracks in the bushings to where its not making noise but presents a problem. Bushings play two important roles, they remove vibrations caused motion prevent noise. If there is a crack that is sizable to make vibrations but no noise then its a difficult diagnosis and will be over looked. Poly Mount on the top can amplify that tremendously. As for the power steering pump causing a wheel shake, in all my years of dealing with steering and suspension I've never heard of a pump causing a wheel shake. Though in dealing with cars for a very long time, there is a first for everything imaginable. So chance plays it could be something as that but I don't see how unless there is something going on with the valves opening and closing while at driving speeds which doesn't make sense. Unless you factor in that you need to be in motion for the effect to be essentially amplified. Which there is the possibility but I would have to factor in that all pumps would be failing for this to occur on all G8's with wheel shake. I'm going to re-iterate once again, having an alignment job will not cure a wheel shake. Alignment is setting the " Feet and Ankles" of the car like how we would adjust our feet and ankles so we don't walk crooked and ruin bottoms of our shoes with uneven wear. I will have to climb under mine to see if I do recall the ball joints are pressed into the control arms so if a ball joint is bad would merit control arm replacement. Which also leads into the fact just because a ball joint is tight doesn't mean its a good ball joint. I also see this in wheel bearings, the wheel bearing can be tight as virgin, not really make much noise but be bad. GM's are notorious for having terrible TERRIBLE wheel bearings especially on front wheel drive cars but I see it a lot in RWD pickups SUV's.

PSMG8GT
10-02-2012, 01:27 AM
Where would I be able to do one of the special road balances you guys are talking about?

RC-51x4
10-02-2012, 09:15 AM
That's the exact question nobody has been able to answer. This car isn't a Porsche or even an M3, lets be honest with ourselves here. A vehicle this sensitive to "imbalance" or whatever else is an issue. I know everyone is trying to help out, but this is NOT a wheel or tire issue.

I will reiterate that I've personally had 3 different sets of wheels on the car and 4 different sets of tires on. I've had my wheels and tires road forced 11 times. I have brand new wheels and brand new Michelin pilot super sport tires. I have also had the car aligned 5 separate times. I've also had new struts, shocks and springs put on. I would guess that I've had 7 different people look at the issue and nobody has had a clue. Everything is tight in the front, even if I really force things around. Lugs are all torqued in a star pattern with a torque wrench.

It's laughable at this point how stupid this problem is.

And does anyone know if the Aussie Commodore (and Camaro, perhaps) owners have these nagging problems? By the time this care came to the states, I would have thought these issues would have been solved. Could the drive hand conversion messed so much of the geometry up? Sorry...more questions than answers!

Richard Craneum
10-02-2012, 09:20 AM
If all checks out.

Might said this on the past but have anybody checked the Power Steering Pump?

What if the pump when changes pressures (variable) is pulsating at certain speed. If I am not mistaken, the pump changes pressures at different speeds and is not related to engine RPMs.

Back in a Pontiac
10-02-2012, 09:21 AM
Where would I be able to do one of the special road balances you guys are talking about?

you can find locations on hunter's website, or just check with your local dealer or a larger tire shop in your area

PSMG8GT
10-02-2012, 09:37 AM
At discount tire getting it done right now. Installing hub centric rings to try nd even things out. We'll see what happens

Back in a Pontiac
10-02-2012, 10:03 AM
At discount tire getting it done right now. Installing hub centric rings to try nd even things out. We'll see what happens

let us know how it works out for you, what rims do you have on the car?

PSMG8GT
10-02-2012, 10:56 AM
Tsw Nurburgrings, tsw actually makes their own hubcentric rings from what the guys told me at Discount. After putting on the hubcentric rings and getting another balance, almost perfectly vibration free. Very minor at higher speeds, doubt the average person would notice. Pretty sure it had a lot to do with hubcentric rings as I had the same shop balance it two other times with no success. Either way, I'm pretty happy

kamsgrandma
10-02-2012, 11:09 AM
So, my car developed this steering wheel shake. I got new tires (hankook evo ventus k12), still have the shake (highway speeds, mainly ~55-70ish...though i think i'm going crazy and starting to think i can feel it slower). I got the tires road force balanced, each wheel was off. Now i still have the shake, just less.

However, I had noticed something. I had taken one wheel off (front) to look (pretend i knew wtf i was looking at). With the wheel off, i spun the rotor, and it didn't spin smoothly. It was almost like the rotor wasn't smooth, as it would be smooth for like 3/4s of a rotation, then 1/4 felt like it was brushing the brakes.

Could this be a cause of the steering wheel shake?

had the same thing happen to my 2008 and it is the roters had them turned and fixed the problem

kamsgrandma
10-02-2012, 11:13 AM
had the same problem with my 2008 G8 had the rotors turned and fixed the wheel shake

Back in a Pontiac
10-02-2012, 11:19 AM
Tsw Nurburgrings, tsw actually makes their own hubcentric rings from what the guys told me at Discount. After putting on the hubcentric rings and getting another balance, almost perfectly vibration free. Very minor at higher speeds, doubt the average person would notice. Pretty sure it had a lot to do with hubcentric rings as I had the same shop balance it two other times with no success. Either way, I'm pretty happy

wish you luck, sometimes I drive the car and its fine, sometimes not so much

PSMG8GT
10-02-2012, 11:22 AM
Lol knocking on wood over here but I'm optimistic about the whole thing. Before today it vibrated always, no off button. Now its a pretty smooth ride

romeyjdogg
10-02-2012, 12:46 PM
And does anyone know if the Aussie Commodore (and Camaro, perhaps) owners have these nagging problems? By the time this care came to the states, I would have thought these issues would have been solved. Could the drive hand conversion messed so much of the geometry up? Sorry...more questions than answers!

Great question. I do recall hearing some stuff about the Commodore, but I'm not sure it's quite as prevalent.

I'm still on the "it's something in the geometry inducing a harmonic" boat.

If all checks out.

Might said this on the past but have anybody checked the Power Steering Pump?

What if the pump when changes pressures (variable) is pulsating at certain speed. If I am not mistaken, the pump changes pressures at different speeds and is not related to engine RPMs.

I'm not sure how you would go about checking the pump, but that's a good point.

Supercharged
10-02-2012, 01:28 PM
I've had the same updated control arms on my car for around 35k miles. Didn't have the shake with them for 15k but now have had it for 20k with the same arms. There is no play in them, as I've checked about 10 times. Mine started when the dealer replaced my collapsed strut mounts. I've since replaced with poly mounts and I still get the same shake.

I have this EXAXCT issue. LCA replacement went fine. Had mounts changed...new bearings and all but the snake started after that along in an intermittent pull in the alignment.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using AutoGuide.Com Free App

Back in a Pontiac
10-02-2012, 01:53 PM
Lol knocking on wood over here but I'm optimistic about the whole thing. Before today it vibrated always, no off button. Now its a pretty smooth ride

mind you its not like the car is out of control, but if you were to take your hands off the wheel I could get it on video of the wheel moving back and forth

TheStevo
10-02-2012, 10:59 PM
So its practically non existent in the Aussie versions is it possible something id wrong with the LHD rack?

mrbirdman330
10-02-2012, 11:13 PM
^ That is a possibility which means we would have to look towards the Middle East and see if the Lumina has these issues. I know a bad rack will cause a wheel shake.

Richard Craneum
10-03-2012, 06:50 AM
I'm not sure how you would go about checking the pump, but that's a good point.

I am thinking on pacing a gauge with a T fitting and see if the needle bounces (I think the pump is a Vane Type) or maybe disconnect the hoses and place a loopback hose just for the test. Another way is removing the belt but you cannot do it on this car (Serpentine Belt).

romeyjdogg
10-03-2012, 08:36 AM
I know some people have had success with changing the rack out, but some other have tried that with no success. Who knows

mrbirdman330
10-03-2012, 09:48 PM
Each car is different this is the problem that presents itself as a challenge. No two cars are built the same even on an assembly line. One mans problem is not another. Most could be horrible wheel balancing, I've said it before especially our stock wheels and a lot of custom after market wheels are a royal pain to balance. In fact some wheels when I order them from customers come balanced and I tell the techs do not mess with those weights on the wheels when balancing out the tires. It causes major problems when its time to balance.

romeyjdogg
10-03-2012, 10:44 PM
Each car is different this is the problem that presents itself as a challenge. No two cars are built the same even on an assembly line. One mans problem is not another. Most could be horrible wheel balancing, I've said it before especially our stock wheels and a lot of custom after market wheels are a royal pain to balance. In fact some wheels when I order them from customers come balanced and I tell the techs do not mess with those weights on the wheels when balancing out the tires. It causes major problems when its time to balance.
I think in some cases, each car probably does have a specific issue, however, in this case (with the G8), I have a hunch that the root cause is more uniform than you may think.

And again, numerous users who have posted in this thread will tell you that wheel balancing is a moot point. I can't name one other car I've ever driven that has a shake after the wheels were regular old dynamic balanced.

I can't remember, but do any V6 guys have this problem? I know GT and GXP seem to get it...

mrbirdman330
10-03-2012, 11:07 PM
I own a V6 and do an Alloy I type wheel balance and I balance the tires myself. Only vibrations I get are from certain spots on the interstate where the road is crappy. Otherwise its always clean and smooth sailing at interstate speeds. If its the V8's only, I would suggest running a small and rather stupid test which could prove nothing but its worth a shot and a guess. Try running with your Active Fuel Management off and see what happens.

TheStevo
10-04-2012, 01:35 AM
Next road trip will be to Iowa for you to balance my wheels...

Back in a Pontiac
10-04-2012, 06:18 AM
Cant really see how afm makes the steering wheel shake, especially when my car will do it at 40mph. I have afm tuned off

People have:
Swapped tires-shakes
Multiple balances- shakes ($100 road force balances )
Multiple alighments- shakes
Replaced suspension components- shakes

romeyjdogg
10-04-2012, 08:39 AM
Cant really see how afm makes the steering wheel shake, especially when my car will do it at 40mph. I have afm tuned off

People have:
Swapped tires-shakes
Multiple balances- shakes ($100 road force balances )
Multiple alighments- shakes
Replaced suspension components- shakes
With V6 vs. V8, I would wondering more the mass/damper effect in the front end.

In addition to your reply, I have:

- Added lowering springs
- Changed shock and struts
- Adding poly strut mounts
- Added rear subframe inserts

Shakes still comes and goes.

BMan
10-04-2012, 12:45 PM
I think I might be one of the few G8 GT owners (19" rims/sports package) that effectively solved my steering wheel shake. I won't rehash everything because I've already posted my story several times but I'll briefly share some facts about my experience with the shakes:

-I replaced my OEM summer 19" tires with Goodyears (can't recall which type). Shook a little before and a bit more after the new tire installation. I did not buy the tires through my dealer (went to one of the big tires shops instead.)

-My dealer replaced my front sway bar bushings, front endlinks to try to eliminate a front end clunk I was simultaneously experiencing along with the steering wheel wobbly/shake. No change in either the clunk or the steering wheel wobble.

-dealer repalced my LCAs. Clunk/rattle was now gone; steering wheel still wobbled/shook.

-Over the course of the above repairs, the dealer road forced balanced my replacement Goodyear tires at least twice and blamed a "bad tire" for the steering wheel shake. I was SOL because I didn't purchase the tires from them, so the road force balancing was net and not warranty.

-I took my car to an independent shop near my office for another shot at road force balancing. No change...waste of money as the car was still shaking.

-took my car back to the tire installer. For free, they rebalanced my tires. No change in the steering wobble/shake.

Finally, last year, I went back to the dealer right before I was past my 36K bumper to bumper warranty and really had a long but productive discussion with them on how we can solve this issue. They involved some type of specialist tech to help address my concerns, and I involved Michele from GM (and a member of this board). My front strut bushings were collapsed; they replaced them. Steering wheel still shoke but now the car tracked better (always had a little trouble pulling to the right.) Next, they replaced the engine mounts with the new and improved TSB mounts. Hoila....no more steering wheel wobble. Keep in mind, THIS WAS WITH MY OLD TIRES THAT THEY THOUGHT WERE THE CAUSE OF MY SHAKES!

I went ahead and bought new tires from the dealer shortly thereafter. Still no shake even with a tire change. Fast forward to this day...still no steering wheel shakes and car tracks straight.

Now if I could just get rid of the front brake caliper clunk I'd be a happy camper! That started right after the dealer installed new pads and resurfaced the rotors for me (which by the way got rid of my brake pulsation through the steering wheel at highway speeds.)

Draw your own conclusions from what I've posted but it sure seems like the new engine mounts were what cured my steering wheel wobble issues.

BMan
10-04-2012, 12:47 PM
Oh....another important fact. Dealer initially also blamed it on AFM. Well, it did it even with AFM disengaged! So there was more to the engine mount change than just dampening AFM vibrations in the steering wheel (which it did do - I sometimes run the stock tune with AFM in the wintertime.)

TLS
10-04-2012, 12:57 PM
Did we determine if people having this shake all have 2008 or 2009 cars? As I understand it, the 2009.5's already have the improved engine mounts.

I have a 2009.5 and do not have this shake being talked about.

ColdFuzion
10-04-2012, 12:57 PM
I recently had the engine mounts replaced in my blue GT, didnt fix the shake. Maybe a combination of all those things corrected things.

TLS
10-04-2012, 01:03 PM
ColdFuzion,

Can/could you feel the difference between engine mounts between your GXP (2009.5) and your 2009 GT?

ColdFuzion
10-04-2012, 01:14 PM
ColdFuzion,

Can/could you feel the difference between engine mounts between your GXP (2009.5) and your 2009 GT?

I cant tell a difference between the GT and GXP.

The largest difference in the GT was being able to feel the AFM kick on/off, with the new engine mounts its barely noticable, definitely worth doing.

TLS
10-04-2012, 01:16 PM
Thats just it...

Don't I already have the improved engine mounts if mine is a 2009.5??

BMan
10-04-2012, 01:56 PM
Thats just it...

Don't I already have the improved engine mounts if mine is a 2009.5??

Probably the only way to really tell is to get the TSB (available on this forum), note the date of the TSB and whether or not it applies to 2009 GTs, and also check your build date on your car (maybe the sticker in the door jam??)

mrbirdman330
10-04-2012, 03:07 PM
I am going to be brief since I am on lunch and therefore on my phone. I have a rather huge ten page report and it covers motor mounts, brakes, wheels, AFM, and the drive shaft. These are listed as causes of wheel shaking. I will see if I can email this report from work to myself. Theres way too much information here in my hand to type. If so I will email the report to those who want to see it.

Back in a Pontiac
10-04-2012, 04:04 PM
I believe we have seen those TSBs regarding all that

Back in a Pontiac
10-04-2012, 06:28 PM
Aggravates me most that its not all time, smooooth as silk today

RC-51x4
10-04-2012, 07:17 PM
I tried something new and it worked with the shake problem. I flipped a coin before driving home tonight (heads). The GT was smooth and quiet the whole way home. Not a shake, not a boom, not even a phasing vibration. And I kinda drove like a maniac, too; playing with all tranny modes and *sometimes* busting the posted limits. All highway, some concrete pavement, some ashpalt, and some new alsphalt. Didn't matter the surface, all was well. Gotta find that coin again before the morning drive...

ColdFuzion
10-04-2012, 07:47 PM
Which currency was the coin ?

romeyjdogg
10-04-2012, 08:22 PM
Oh....another important fact. Dealer initially also blamed it on AFM. Well, it did it even with AFM disengaged! So there was more to the engine mount change than just dampening AFM vibrations in the steering wheel (which it did do - I sometimes run the stock tune with AFM in the wintertime.)

I recall you saying the engine mounts got rid of it. Here's a question for you: before the new engine mounts, did you try different gears in manual mode? For instance, to see if mine was due to RPM induced harmonics, I put the car in manual mode, observed a shake in 6th gear, then manually shifted to 5th, however I still observed the same shake. No changes, so I closed the book on engine vibration.

I'm curious...did you ever do anything similar?

I tried something new and it worked with the shake problem. I flipped a coin before driving home tonight (heads). The GT was smooth and quiet the whole way home. Not a shake, not a boom, not even a phasing vibration. And I kinda drove like a maniac, too; playing with all tranny modes and *sometimes* busting the posted limits. All highway, some concrete pavement, some ashpalt, and some new alsphalt. Didn't matter the surface, all was well. Gotta find that coin again before the morning drive...

Which currency was the coin ?


:drink:

BMan
10-04-2012, 08:46 PM
I recall you saying the engine mounts got rid of it. Here's a question for you: before the new engine mounts, did you try different gears in manual mode? For instance, to see if mine was due to RPM induced harmonics, I put the car in manual mode, observed a shake in 6th gear, then manually shifted to 5th, however I still observed the same shake. No changes, so I closed the book on engine vibration.

I'm curious...did you ever do anything similar?


:drink:

RomeyD-great minds think alike. I too thought the same a few years back and experimented with say, going 65 mph in 6th, then 5th, then 4th. No difference for the steering wheel wobble shake.

jpG8GT
10-04-2012, 08:52 PM
I put the updated motor and tranny mounts in my car. Along with crank balancer. 3 different sets of wheel tire combos. Not one has changed how the steering wheel shakes in my car. Updated control arms did not change it either. Power steering pump and gear do not help at all with the shake. I have worked on enough G8s to find out nothing helps with the shake. I think some people on here are getting this concern confused with a general out of balance issue. Not the case. I have CTSV brembos now and it seems to be better with that setup. New hubs did not correct shake either. And also replacing stock rotors with new GM rotors did not help. C6 vettes are fighting this problem also. It seems to be a harmonic issue on both cars. GM has no fix as of this point. Some Camaros are having issues also. Low profile tires are so sensitive to any radial and lateral forces. This causes a harmonics issue within the tire. Especially runflats.


Sent from my fresh lubed iPhone

BMan
10-04-2012, 09:03 PM
I came across a recent auto mag that was reviewing either the new lt1 camaro or the SS vert and I had a real laugh when the review said there was a noticeable steering wheel vibration! I'm sure it's the same darn deal with the camaros.

I'm very happy and fortunate that I'm now steering wheel vibration free and for some time now. After reading all of these posts, I'm thinking it was more a stroke of luck vs. those new motor mounts!

mrbirdman330
10-04-2012, 10:19 PM
If you've done everything minus a drive shaft that could very well be the possible issue. The TSB posted says the shaft should be a last resort but to me it seems there were a lot of improperly balanced drive shaft put on cars.

romeyjdogg
10-04-2012, 10:56 PM
I put the updated motor and tranny mounts in my car. Along with crank balancer. 3 different sets of wheel tire combos. Not one has changed how the steering wheel shakes in my car. Updated control arms did not change it either. Power steering pump and gear do not help at all with the shake. I have worked on enough G8s to find out nothing helps with the shake. I think some people on here are getting this concern confused with a general out of balance issue. Not the case. I have CTSV brembos now and it seems to be better with that setup. New hubs did not correct shake either. And also replacing stock rotors with new GM rotors did not help. C6 vettes are fighting this problem also. It seems to be a harmonic issue on both cars. GM has no fix as of this point. Some Camaros are having issues also. Low profile tires are so sensitive to any radial and lateral forces. This causes a harmonics issue within the tire. Especially runflats.


Sent from my fresh lubed iPhone
Dude....I think you pretty much covered it, maybe except for the steering rack and propshaft. Brutal.

Back in a Pontiac
10-05-2012, 06:07 AM
Well that pretty much settles it, people have also done driveshafts with no sucess.
Guess we will have to carry that coin and wait for GM to remember us

RC-51x4
10-05-2012, 07:37 AM
Thanks jpG8GT, good info. FWIW, I didn't find the coin, but still rode in shake free this morning. The pulsing/hasing vibration can still be heard, which I speculate is a driveshaft harmonics issue. But nothing seems to be shaking the steering wheel today.

romeyjdogg
10-05-2012, 08:29 AM
Thanks jpG8GT, good info. FWIW, I didn't find the coin, but still rode in shake free this morning. The pulsing/hasing vibration can still be heard, which I speculate is a driveshaft harmonics issue. But nothing seems to be shaking the steering wheel today.
Yes, that sure does sound like a driveshaft issue.

Pretty sad that this shake has been mentioned across a number of different platforms.

romeyjdogg
10-06-2012, 01:39 PM
You know, I recall somebody in Oz saying their commodore had the same issue and what worked was re-timing all the bushings (sorry don't have a link, just popped into my head). The same as what Pedders recommends to do after a drop.

I think what the guy ended up doing was putting the car up on a lift where the wheels were still on the lift (not a 4 post lift), like one where you would do an alignment where the load is still on the suspension. He loosened all the fasteners that were connected to bushings (control arms, radius arms, same for rear, etc etc) and then rolled the car back and forth a few times so the bushings and suspension arms were "reset" (i.e. they all moved a little bit to a new resting state). Then, he re-torqued all the fasteners.

I'm not sure how the bushings would be "out of phase" with the ride height? Maybe collapsing strut mounts is the answer (some cars have had these new off the lot)? That may explain why some people have the issue and some don't?

With collapsed strut mounts, the front ride height would have dropped. Since the bushings are rigidly connected to the ferrule, they would not rotate freely (like a poly bushing) and would be "loaded" in a resting position that is now different than the original ride height. If the bushings are twisted, thus loaded at the new "nominal" ride height, you would have some torque being applied to suspension components by the loaded bushings. It's probably not much torque being applied, but at speed (like we've all been seeing), it could be crazy enough to induce an oscillation? This may be far fetch and I have no idea, just a thought, but it may be worth a shot for anyone who has the means.

jpG8GT
10-06-2012, 02:12 PM
Oh. Been there done that. I had uneven ride hight in the front. Did it after the control arms were replaced under recall. Didn't change a thing besides level side to side. Believe me when I say I have tried everything possible to eliminate the shimmy in wheel. 3-4 different alignment setups didn't change a thing.


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romeyjdogg
10-06-2012, 02:17 PM
Oh. Been there done that. I had uneven ride hight in the front. Did it after the control arms were replaced under recall. Didn't change a thing besides level side to side. Believe me when I say I have tried everything possible to eliminate the shimmy in wheel. 3-4 different alignment setups didn't change a thing.


Sent from my fresh lubed iPhone
You re-timed all the front end bushings?

jpG8GT
10-06-2012, 04:20 PM
Resettled is what I did. Drove it for a couple weeks with new arms then loosened all arms on the alignment rack and bounced it up and down. Did settle a bit and leveled out the side to side difference. Realigned after with no effect on shimmy. I can make it shimmy even worse by accelerating quick. Kinda weird. Just started to notice it on mine. My wobble is worst around 55-65. Seems to be better on highway now. Holding brake while it's shimmying does not have any effect either. I have talked to several GM engineers that deal with suspension and they don't have any idea what's up. Not just our cars remember. F and Y body's have the issue.


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Back in a Pontiac
10-06-2012, 05:26 PM
On my way home the other day i tried putting the car in neutral and different gears it had no effect at all on the shake so motor mounts sounds really doubtful for me

romeyjdogg
10-06-2012, 06:30 PM
Resettled is what I did. Drove it for a couple weeks with new arms then loosened all arms on the alignment rack and bounced it up and down. Did settle a bit and leveled out the side to side difference. Realigned after with no effect on shimmy. I can make it shimmy even worse by accelerating quick. Kinda weird. Just started to notice it on mine. My wobble is worst around 55-65. Seems to be better on highway now. Holding brake while it's shimmying does not have any effect either. I have talked to several GM engineers that deal with suspension and they don't have any idea what's up. Not just our cars remember. F and Y body's have the issue.


Sent from my fresh lubed iPhone

Wow, pretty sad when the engineers are stumped. Just out of curiosity, are your front wheels road forced to under 10 lbs? That's the only thing that made mine subside a bit.

On my way home the other day i tried putting the car in neutral and different gears it had no effect at all on the shake so motor mounts sounds really doubtful for me


Yeah, I did the same thing in my own testing. Same results.

mrbirdman330
10-06-2012, 08:09 PM
Possible you might have bad rear axle shafts. Which in theory because I've been brooding over there could possible make a wheel shake if its traveling all the way up to the front.

fatback
10-07-2012, 10:47 PM
Wonder if the new Caddy ATS has the shakes?

kmanuel
10-18-2012, 10:53 AM
Lower Control Arms fixed mine. Definitely, no doubt about it.

I will share a little history on my car/problem.

Bought the car with factory 18's and decent tires, suspension stock, had shake between 40-60 worse when it had been sitting all day/over night. Bolted on Camaro 20's with brand new tires. Road forced them 3 different times between 2 different machines. Road force was always good- less than 15. Vibration was never any different.
When I lowered the car I replaced the front struts and upper mounts/bearings and aligned vehicle. After that I upgraded the front brakes to GXP Brembos all new.
Shake gradually got worse over last 10k miles.

Pulled out all 4 lower arms and found the bushings worn/cracked/split/sagging.
Replaced with the 4 piece redesigned kit from GM and aligned vehicle.
No vibration at all and the front ride height actually went up 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Guess the bushings were really worn and sagging.

COLT
10-18-2012, 11:35 AM
I had the same problem. I had to get my rotors turned & road force balanced my tires. After that the wheel shake was gone. While doing all of that, i notice that my lower control arm was bad so, i changed that too. You have to road force balance your tires, a regular balance won't work. Now my car drives like new.

romeyjdogg
10-18-2012, 11:50 AM
I had the same problem. I had to get my rotors turned & road force balanced my tires. After that the wheel shake was gone. While doing all of that, i notice that my lower control arm was bad so, i changed that too. You have to road force balance your tires, a regular balance won't work. Now my car drives like new.
Everyone with the problem has road force balanced their wheels. Mine has been done 9 times on 3 different sets of wheels/tires.

youngrushhour
10-18-2012, 12:18 PM
My shake is brutal when breaking. I figure it's gotta be the rotors.

romeyjdogg
10-18-2012, 08:32 PM
My shake is brutal when breaking. I figure it's gotta be the rotors.
Consistent braking shake is probably rotors, however, even after I changed my rotors, I still sometimes get slight shake on braking. I think it's the same issue we're all experiencing that is manifesting while braking too.

Back in a Pontiac
10-19-2012, 04:09 PM
Everyone with the problem has road force balanced their wheels. Mine has been done 9 times on 3 different sets of wheels/tires.

I know its 47 pages of info here and people are thinking they are doing the right thing- but if some people would read a few pages before replying it would help out more then replies that are not helpful.

romeyjdogg
11-01-2012, 07:59 PM
Strange question, but has anybody ever tried change the power steering fluid?

Strayer
11-01-2012, 08:22 PM
Ok, big update.

The shop I use says they have resolved the shaking in my car. I am stopping down tomorrow evening to pick it up and see.

Their first inclination was to replace my full steering rack assembly as I have already replaced and or ruled out the following:

Multiple Alignments
New Wheels and tires (multiple road force balances)
New Rotors and pads
All 4 LCAs replaced and BMR poly used
Radius Rod Bushings replaced
Sway Bar endlinks replaced
New Strut Bushings and Bearings
New Poly Steering Rack bush
Temporarily replaced struts with BC coilovers and shake remained

The only damned things I didn't replace were the wheel bearings.

The full rack is the outer and inner tie rods and the rack itself. After the rack went in the car the steering shook vigorously, much more so than what I had presented them with. It got worse when they drove through corners on the highway etc. So the next step was to replace the PS pump. I was told that the pump was emitting a whining noise that could only be heard with the techs head in the engine compartment as someone turned the wheel. After they did all of this, they are now saying all is well with the vehicle.

Will update after getting the car in my hands tomorrow.

sssmokin99
11-01-2012, 09:17 PM
So are they saying that R&R the entire rack is the answer? Or is it something that got re-torqued, re-adjusted, re-whatevered in the process of removing & replacing the rack that cured the shakes???
I just re-read your post- the power steering pump it was, stupid me...too tired. Well anyway that isnt one that I would have guessed...

This has to go down as one of the most vexing car problems I have ever heard of. I guess I was lucky: one road force balance and that was it. Which doesn't mean that tomorrow morning the car wont decide to shake like hell......

Keep us informed!

romeyjdogg
11-02-2012, 08:12 PM
Damn Strayer, definitely let us know how it turns out. Funny that I just mentioned it ...

How much does something like that cost? Did you pay for that out of your pocket?

EDIT: Looks like the pump itself costs 90-100 bucks. Wonder what is involved with it? How much labor and whatnot

sssmokin99
11-02-2012, 08:34 PM
Damn Strayer, definitely let us know how it turns out. Funny that I just mentioned it ...

How much does something like that cost? Did you pay for that out of your pocket?

EDIT: Looks like the pump itself costs 90-100 bucks. Wonder what is involved with it? How much labor and whatnot


I noticed that you mentioned P.S. fluid also. What brought you to think of that? I am trying to think how the pump could influence this unless the pressure it generates is somehow modulated, or pulsing, and thus transmitting a vibration to everything it controls. This would be wild if it turns out to be the culprit.....

romeyjdogg
11-02-2012, 08:48 PM
I noticed that you mentioned P.S. fluid also. What brought you to think of that? I am trying to think how the pump could influence this unless the pressure it generates is somehow modulated, or pulsing, and thus transmitting a vibration to everything it controls. This would be wild if it turns out to be the culprit.....
It's one of the only things directly connected that we haven't discussed at length here...

Sadly, I don't know that much about how the PS pumps works, so I couldn't say why it would be causing a resonance.

Strayer
11-03-2012, 11:06 AM
Damn Strayer, definitely let us know how it turns out. Funny that I just mentioned it ...

How much does something like that cost? Did you pay for that out of your pocket?

EDIT: Looks like the pump itself costs 90-100 bucks. Wonder what is involved with it? How much labor and whatnot

Just a reminder, my "shake" was quite apparent before. The whole steering wheel would at times be visibly turning 1-2 degrees, and vibrating. In addition, if I quickly steered to either side and quickly brought the wheel back to center, I would experience an uneven pulsation.

What I described above is now gone from the car. I still have a bit of vibration remaining though (very tolerable compared to before! Anyone else would be content). It could just be the result of my snow tires being relatively aggressive. Because of this remaining bit of vibration and my own neurosis I am going to have my front wheel bearings changed out next week. They are the last bastion of anything that could possible be wrong.

The most recent costs are all I can remember lol. Cost for the rack was $301, PS pump was $70, and labor was $540. Out of pocket. The two new bearings should come out to be almost the same $$ wise.

In conclusion, the new power steering pump and rack made my steering shake and or oscillation go away. The rack probably wasn't bad, but it was a bit worn. The pump was bad for certain. Again, the tech had his head in the engine compartment and heard whining when the wheel was turned lock to lock.

Richard Craneum
11-03-2012, 12:08 PM
The vibration that I experience is actually road vibration. I have the 18 in rim and I can say a larger rim will give more road vibration.

In the way I can describe best is if is rhythmic vibration is a component; is random is road.

The one that I feel on the steering is road feedback; changes the intensity with surfaces and speed.

BTW, the Michelin Sport Pilot tires are awesome.

sssmokin99
11-03-2012, 12:35 PM
The vibration that I experience is actually road vibration. I have the 18 in rim and I can say a larger rim will give more road vibration.

In the way I can describe best is if is rhythmic vibration is a component; is random is road.

The one that I feel on the steering is road feedback; changes the intensity with surfaces and speed.

BTW, the Michelin Sport Pilot tires are awesome.


Not to hijack the thread, but I have those tires on my Z/28 and agree with you- best money I ever spent on that car. Made the OEM Goodyear RSA's feel like discount store specials....

romeyjdogg
11-03-2012, 01:12 PM
Just a reminder, my "shake" was quite apparent before. The whole steering wheel would at times be visibly turning 1-2 degrees, and vibrating. In addition, if I quickly steered to either side and quickly brought the wheel back to center, I would experience an uneven pulsation.

What I described above is now gone from the car. I still have a bit of vibration remaining though (very tolerable compared to before! Anyone else would be content). It could just be the result of my snow tires being relatively aggressive. Because of this remaining bit of vibration and my own neurosis I am going to have my front wheel bearings changed out next week. They are the last bastion of anything that could possible be wrong.

The most recent costs are all I can remember lol. Cost for the rack was $301, PS pump was $70, and labor was $540. Out of pocket. The two new bearings should come out to be almost the same $$ wise.

In conclusion, the new power steering pump and rack made my steering shake and or oscillation go away. The rack probably wasn't bad, but it was a bit worn. The pump was bad for certain. Again, the tech had his head in the engine compartment and heard whining when the wheel was turned lock to lock.
Very interesting to hear the pump was your culprit. Was there any insight as to what exactly was wrong with it? Seems like a lot of us are struggling with the same poor pump...

Kind of why I was asking if anyone had changed the fluid. Maybe air or something got in through a bad seal...not sure

Strayer
11-03-2012, 02:16 PM
Very interesting to hear the pump was your culprit. Was there any insight as to what exactly was wrong with it? Seems like a lot of us are struggling with the same poor pump...

Kind of why I was asking if anyone had changed the fluid. Maybe air or something got in through a bad seal...not sure

The shop said the pump was just too weak to push enough fluid through the tighter new factory tolerances found in my rack. Which caused the thing to shake like crazy when turning. I think the shop still has the pump as I asked them to hold it so I could take it apart, and look for visible damage.

The vibration that I experience is actually road vibration. I have the 18 in rim and I can say a larger rim will give more road vibration.

In the way I can describe best is if is rhythmic vibration is a component; is random is road.

The one that I feel on the steering is road feedback; changes the intensity with surfaces and speed.

BTW, the Michelin Sport Pilot tires are awesome.

I have made sure to differentiate between regular road vibration and the "something else" that I had. When I first got my GT, the RE-050s didn't shake at all and they went to 160 or so. For anyone still on the RSAs you have to get off of those as they are the worst tire ever made. They came on my GXP and I replaced them a week or so later with RE-11s; made a world of difference. My winters right now are LM-60s. I've made sure to not run any crap tires on either of my G8s lol.

skzgt
11-03-2012, 04:15 PM
I have changed rims and tires & the the lower control arms. Still have the shake when brakes are applied. I guess new rotors are next.

aabry
11-03-2012, 06:00 PM
I have always had a shake for as long as I can remember. I still think I have an out of round rim.
A friend of mine with a Mercedes had a shake in his steering wheel and he did all he could think of to fix it. Finally found out the wheel was out of round, long story short, they bent it back so it was perfect...vibration gone.
I've got new tires, perfectly balanced, new rotors, new pads...haven't checked the rims nor the suspension or steering stuff...but I doubt that is my problem. In the summer the wheel shook like crazy when the tires were cold (so it seemed), then it would smooth out. Other times it would shake after a stop (making me think rotors). STill shakes after stops, but since its getting colder...the shake has gone away considerably. Don't know what to do next...I personally think its a bent rim...but new rims aren't in my budget since it would mean new rubber also.

PSMG8GT
11-03-2012, 07:31 PM
Yup, power steering pump was the culprit for my car as well. You guys should really c start looking into it

mrbirdman330
11-03-2012, 07:40 PM
Start making complaints to NHTSA while you're at it.

PSMG8GT
11-03-2012, 07:48 PM
& for the record, I'd like to have it noted that I , a noob, was the first to produce the ps pump theory. With that being said, I gladly take any and all credit for the fix

romeyjdogg
11-03-2012, 08:09 PM
& for the record, I'd like to have it noted that I , a noob, was the first to produce the ps pump theory. With that being said, I gladly take any and all credit for the fix
Lawl. Alright man, we'll give this one to you.

You said you actually had issues with yours though. Mine seems fine, as in I've never noticed any weird noises or issues. Strange how it comes in and out though. What's really weird is that this is prevalent in a lot of the G8s, so what's the deal with the PS pump?

BMan
11-03-2012, 09:19 PM
Not to put a wet blanket on the ps pump theory, but my steering wheel shakes were cured with the updated motor mounts. Original ps pump and rack and never have changed out the ps pump fluid either.

But maybe it is an issue for some cars? Who knows. I'm one of the fortunate ones I guess.:confused:

Strayer
11-03-2012, 09:22 PM
Not to put a wet blanket on the ps pump theory, but my steering wheel shakes were cured with the updated motor mounts. Original ps pump and rack and never have changed out the ps pump fluid either.

But maybe it is an issue for some cars? Who knows. I'm one of the fortunate ones I guess.:confused:

My GT had a shake that was fixed with motor mounts very early on. When the car was almost a year old. That puppy hasn't had the PS pump replaced yet. The GXPs obviously came with the upgraded mounts.

romeyjdogg
11-03-2012, 10:04 PM
I still don't see how the motor mounts would fix a steering wheel shaking. You would think when the motor changes RPM (via a manual mode gear shift), the shaking would stop due to change in vibration frequency.

Richard Craneum
11-04-2012, 09:00 AM
Not to put a wet blanket on the ps pump theory, but my steering wheel shakes were cured with the updated motor mounts. Original ps pump and rack and never have changed out the ps pump fluid either.

But maybe it is an issue for some cars? Who knows. I'm one of the fortunate ones I guess.:confused:


I have seen collapsed rubber lines. I was working on a AH-1F Cobra that had fluctuating engine oil pressure. Turned out to be a a hose that was collapsing in the inside. It was working like a Reed on wind instrument. Most people heard a house with a faucet that makes the plumbing go crazy (rattles, shakes, groaning, etc...).

If it happens on the Power Steering under pressure could create a pulsation.

TheStevo
11-04-2012, 04:09 PM
Random Question, since a lot of people have noticed that the PS Pump Pulley isnt balanced/or out of round, could that be fluctuating the pressure in the pump??

PSMG8GT
11-04-2012, 06:38 PM
Lawl. Alright man, we'll give this one to you.

You said you actually had issues with yours though. Mine seems fine, as in I've never noticed any weird noises or issues. Strange how it comes in and out though. What's really weird is that this is prevalent in a lot of the G8s, so what's the deal with the PS pump?

Lol, just messing around. Mine was done, had no life in it. For those that still have a ps pump working well, proly isnt the root of your cars evil

mrbirdman330
11-04-2012, 11:52 PM
I still don't see how the motor mounts would fix a steering wheel shaking. You would think when the motor changes RPM (via a manual mode gear shift), the shaking would stop due to change in vibration frequency.

The mounts are bushings that dampen the vibrations immensely of the engine when in action. If the bushings are bad the engine is going to vibrate harder and push against the whole front sub-frame. The vibrations are going to transfer to the wheel and sometimes the rest of the interior. You'd notice you drink or your seat shaking as well. Put your hand on a running engine, you'll see and feel for yourself especially when you rev it up how much the engine vibrates.

Tornfalcon
11-05-2012, 12:46 AM
So, my car developed this steering wheel shake. I got new tires (hankook evo ventus k12), still have the shake (highway speeds, mainly ~55-70ish...though i think i'm going crazy and starting to think i can feel it slower). I got the tires road force balanced, each wheel was off. Now i still have the shake, just less.

However, I had noticed something. I had taken one wheel off (front) to look (pretend i knew wtf i was looking at). With the wheel off, i spun the rotor, and it didn't spin smoothly. It was almost like the rotor wasn't smooth, as it would be smooth for like 3/4s of a rotation, then 1/4 felt like it was brushing the brakes.

Could this be a cause of the steering wheel shake?

I had this problem just a bit ago when I got mine. slight vibrations in the wheel. I ended up changing the rotors and bam problem solved. I honestly thought it was caused by the roads here but until the rotor thing problem remained. After. all gone.
hope this helped.!

Supercharged
11-05-2012, 10:37 AM
The mounts are bushings that dampen the vibrations immensely of the engine when in action. If the bushings are bad the engine is going to vibrate harder and push against the whole front sub-frame. The vibrations are going to transfer to the wheel and sometimes the rest of the interior. You'd notice you drink or your seat shaking as well. Put your hand on a running engine, you'll see and feel for yourself especially when you rev it up how much the engine vibrates.


This was the first issue I had and could feel it every time the dod engaged. New mounts solved about 80% of the issue. Much less noticeable after changing.

romeyjdogg
11-05-2012, 11:07 AM
The mounts are bushings that dampen the vibrations immensely of the engine when in action. If the bushings are bad the engine is going to vibrate harder and push against the whole front sub-frame. The vibrations are going to transfer to the wheel and sometimes the rest of the interior. You'd notice you drink or your seat shaking as well. Put your hand on a running engine, you'll see and feel for yourself especially when you rev it up how much the engine vibrates.
You didn't read the whole post, lol. I said if you changed gears, the vibration would change, so you could eliminate the problematic frequency. What I said was that doing that had no effect on wheel wobble.

romeyjdogg
11-05-2012, 11:08 AM
I had this problem just a bit ago when I got mine. slight vibrations in the wheel. I ended up changing the rotors and bam problem solved. I honestly thought it was caused by the roads here but until the rotor thing problem remained. After. all gone.
hope this helped.!
My pads brush my rotors as well, but by all accounts, this seems normal?

c1054
11-05-2012, 12:55 PM
I have had shake issues several times with my 2009 GT with 18" wheels (64,000 miles). Plenty of road force balancing, and an early replacement of one of the stock RSAs. The problem seemed fixed until I bought new tires last summer from a local tire shop (Continental Extreme Contact DWS). After much flailing, Continental replaced a tire, and all was well.

I had the tires rotated three weeks ago, and the shakes reappeared, with the source seeming to come from the rear. My dealer took a look during a routine service visit, and found that the left rear tire wobbled when the car was run on a lift. They also found both rear tires with 24lbs of road force. The dealer and other independent shops assure me that the wheles are fine and not the cause. I went back to my tire retailer and we are waiting for a call back from Continental. Why would this happen as a result of a normal rotation in the pattern suggested by GM?

One odd thing was that there was also an excessive road force issue with the stock RSAs, and I had vibration problems after a rotation not long after buying the car. I don't think this is a coincidence. There is something wrong with these vehicles. For me the issue sems to be tied back to the tires, but that may only be a symptom and not the true disease.

I am curious if Michelle has any recent thoughts on what is a very common and disturbing problem.

Imp
11-05-2012, 12:58 PM
Bought car used and LCAs and engine mounts were replaced before buying.

Have had shudder when driving and bad shudder when braking... replaced pads and rotors last weekend. Shudder when braking is now gone.

However, I still have a shake in the wheel that 'comes and goes'. Early morning when warming up/driving, it's fairly bad. I attribute those to cold tires being out of round. After warmed up for 5-10 miles it definitely gets better.

Had a 2 hr drive on Saturday. Stopping and then going again on the highway (toll booth or redlights) there would be a vibration for a couple miles and then it would go away again in about 5-10 miles. On the longer stretches between stopping there was no noticeable vibration.

Reading the recent posts... does the power steering pump run at a different cycle at different speeds? Does it take time for it to get "up to temp/speed" after stopping and/or hard turning?

It's curious that changing it out removed the vibration in some instances...

--kC

romeyjdogg
11-05-2012, 03:47 PM
There is definitely something wrong with the car. No vehicle should be this sensitive to road force variations, plain and simple.

I'm not sure about the PS pump, but I'd be interested to know more.

Imp
11-06-2012, 07:21 AM
It appears c1054 and I posted at almost the same time. I didn't see his post until today.

I also have the Conti DWSs, and also recently had my tires rotated when I did my brakes and re-RFB the tires when rotating. May explain some of the vibrations then (and in the cooler weather, you're going to get more vibration if the car sits for any length of time, like overnight.

Interesting. Please let me know what you found out, if anything, from Conti.

--kC
(And I'm on the stock 19s... which are soft as butter)

GMCustomerService
11-06-2012, 12:30 PM
@c1054 and others, I haven't had updates about this at this time, but allow me to exhaust my resources further for you. This may take me a few days, but I will do my best to see what I can find for you guys/gals.

Michelle, GM Customer Service

romeyjdogg
11-06-2012, 04:46 PM
Michelle is the best!

GMCustomerService
11-07-2012, 02:51 PM
Awe, romeyjdogg, thank you so much! Be careful with this type of post as my head won't be able to fit through the doors of the building, LOL.

Michelle, GM Customer Service

Turbo301
11-07-2012, 02:53 PM
Gotta say, it's pretty cool that a GM customer service rep would frequent a forum for a now-defunct brand.

jpG8GT
11-07-2012, 05:45 PM
As I have stated before, I have exhausted my resourses and then some to get to the bottom of this shake. I have had engineers out several times for the wheel "oscillation" It is a harmonics issue. No parts are gonna fix the "oscillation." Some people get it confused with a vibe in the wheel. My personal G8 has had all parts except a rack and pump replaced to get rid of vibe. Several other G8's I have replaced racks and pumps with no help in the vibe. The only thing that has lessened the vibe on my car is a custom alignment and resettling the suspention. When I put the CTS-V brakes on it, it changed the variation in which it oscillated. NEW factory GT rotors and hubs do nothing for the oscillation. I have had several C6 Vettes with the same issue. No parts have fixed them. I just had a 2011 GS C6 get bought back due to the same concern. This one was bad! Engineering and Vette team could not fix it with all parts available. Does that tell you something when a $75,000 car gets bought back for a vibe? Spent two months on this car with engineers and two other vettes trying to fix it. Most of the G8's with the "oscillation" have a very slow wheel side to side motion. Not a vibe. 8 out of 10 people with a G8 that have this concern have a wheel tire balance issue. These cars are WAY to sensitive to balance issues. This is just my opinion after working on LOTS of G8's since they have been out.

romeyjdogg
11-07-2012, 08:13 PM
As I have stated before, I have exhausted my resourses and then some to get to the bottom of this shake. I have had engineers out several times for the wheel "oscillation" It is a harmonics issue. No parts are gonna fix the "oscillation." Some people get it confused with a vibe in the wheel. My personal G8 has had all parts except a rack and pump replaced to get rid of vibe. Several other G8's I have replaced racks and pumps with no help in the vibe. The only thing that has lessened the vibe on my car is a custom alignment and resettling the suspention. When I put the CTS-V brakes on it, it changed the variation in which it oscillated. NEW factory GT rotors and hubs do nothing for the oscillation. I have had several C6 Vettes with the same issue. No parts have fixed them. I just had a 2011 GS C6 get bought back due to the same concern. This one was bad! Engineering and Vette team could not fix it with all parts available. Does that tell you something when a $75,000 car gets bought back for a vibe? Spent two months on this car with engineers and two other vettes trying to fix it. Most of the G8's with the "oscillation" have a very slow wheel side to side motion. Not a vibe. 8 out of 10 people with a G8 that have this concern have a wheel tire balance issue. These cars are WAY to sensitive to balance issues. This is just my opinion after working on LOTS of G8's since they have been out.
Agreed on all accounts sir. I do recall reading a bunch of forum posts on the ZR1 and how a lot of them had the steering column oscillation as well. It was of similar length as this triumphant thread with no clear resolution.

SpeedRacerX
11-08-2012, 07:11 AM
@c1054 and others, I haven't had updates about this at this time, but allow me to exhaust my resources further for you. This may take me a few days, but I will do my best to see what I can find for you guys/gals.

Michelle, GM Customer Service

If you find a resolution, I'll gladly pay for the fix myself. Anything to finally resolve this annoyance.

As I have stated before, I have exhausted my resourses and then some to get to the bottom of this shake. I have had engineers out several times for the wheel "oscillation" It is a harmonics issue. No parts are gonna fix the "oscillation." Some people get it confused with a vibe in the wheel. My personal G8 has had all parts except a rack and pump replaced to get rid of vibe. Several other G8's I have replaced racks and pumps with no help in the vibe. The only thing that has lessened the vibe on my car is a custom alignment and resettling the suspention. When I put the CTS-V brakes on it, it changed the variation in which it oscillated. NEW factory GT rotors and hubs do nothing for the oscillation. I have had several C6 Vettes with the same issue. No parts have fixed them. I just had a 2011 GS C6 get bought back due to the same concern. This one was bad! Engineering and Vette team could not fix it with all parts available. Does that tell you something when a $75,000 car gets bought back for a vibe? Spent two months on this car with engineers and two other vettes trying to fix it. Most of the G8's with the "oscillation" have a very slow wheel side to side motion. Not a vibe. 8 out of 10 people with a G8 that have this concern have a wheel tire balance issue. These cars are WAY to sensitive to balance issues. This is just my opinion after working on LOTS of G8's since they have been out.

Great info.

Agreed on all accounts sir. I do recall reading a bunch of forum posts on the ZR1 and how a lot of them had the steering column oscillation as well. It was of similar length as this triumphant thread with no clear resolution.

Some days I swear I have this figured out only to be dumbfounded when it continues to happen.

I have noticed lately that no matter what tires/wheels are on my car (all seasons on stock rims or staggered summers on aftermarket rims) I feel side to side movement in the steering wheel at highway speeds and front end side to side slight walking that is unsettling and forces me to constantly slightly correct it. Been getting worse. And backing up while turning, I feel the steering wheel tighter than it's ever been in 3 1/2 years.

I'm beginning to wonder of the steering rack and pump are going?

romeyjdogg
11-08-2012, 08:12 AM
If you find a resolution, I'll gladly pay for the fix myself. Anything to finally resolve this annoyance.



Great info.



Some days I swear I have this figured out only to be dumbfounded when it continues to happen.

I have noticed lately that no matter what tires/wheels are on my car (all seasons on stock rims or staggered summers on aftermarket rims) I feel side to side movement in the steering wheel at highway speeds and front end side to side slight walking that is unsettling and forces me to constantly slightly correct it. Been getting worse. And backing up while turning, I feel the steering wheel tighter than it's ever been in 3 1/2 years.

I'm beginning to wonder of the steering rack and pump are going?
I would say if the steering effort is changing, maybe you do have a problem there?

c1054
11-08-2012, 09:41 AM
I have had shake issues several times with my 2009 GT with 18" wheels (64,000 miles). Plenty of road force balancing, and an early replacement of one of the stock RSAs. The problem seemed fixed until I bought new tires last summer from a local tire shop (Continental Extreme Contact DWS). After much flailing, Continental replaced a tire, and all was well.

I had the tires rotated three weeks ago, and the shakes reappeared, with the source seeming to come from the rear. My dealer took a look during a routine service visit, and found that the left rear tire wobbled when the car was run on a lift. They also found both rear tires with 24lbs of road force. The dealer and other independent shops assure me that the wheles are fine and not the cause. I went back to my tire retailer and we are waiting for a call back from Continental. Why would this happen as a result of a normal rotation in the pattern suggested by GM?

One odd thing was that there was also an excessive road force issue with the stock RSAs, and I had vibration problems after a rotation not long after buying the car. I don't think this is a coincidence. There is something wrong with these vehicles. For me the issue sems to be tied back to the tires, but that may only be a symptom and not the true disease.

I am curious if Michelle has any recent thoughts on what is a very common and disturbing problem.

Here is my follow-up. The tire retailer looked at it yesterday, and heard/felt the same vibration and noise coming from the rear. The tire looked normal, with no distortions, lumps, or sign of wear or abuse. They road forced balanced the supposedly bad tire, found it within spec at 5 lbs (?!?!), then took it for a drive and found that the vibration did not go away. While test driving, they noticed that when the transmission was shifted from 5th to 4th in manual mode, the noise went away, leading them to suggest that the issue may be a driveline vibration. I tried to recreate the downshift solution on the way to work this morning, but I can't say for sure it worked (maybe the higher engine revs masked the vibration).

I called my dealer (Coleman in lawrenceville, NJ) and set up a meeting for today with my service writer. I will refer to TSB 10-03-09-001. There is too much smoke for there to be no fire.

PSMG8GT
11-08-2012, 10:32 AM
Speedracer, if you're steering wheel is tight at low speeds, that's a tell tale sign of steering pump needing to be replaced. Reversing was the worst for me too, had to muscle the hell out of it.

GMCustomerService
11-08-2012, 01:16 PM
Thanks, Turbo301! It's quite the experience to monitor forums such as the G8, LOL.

Michelle, GM Customer Service

BTWS6
11-08-2012, 05:30 PM
Thank you Michelle for helping all of us with the different issues that we come across. It is very impressive to see you chiming in on a bunch of different situations.

Imp
11-09-2012, 05:48 AM
c1054... thanks for the heads up.

Intriguing angle thinking it's driveline, but it's not RPM related. What in the driveline would cause a constant vibration regardless of speed/RPMs?

--kC

GMCustomerService
11-09-2012, 12:29 PM
The pleasure is all mine, BTWS6! I love being on the forums with all of you.

I Hope you have a great weekend.

Michelle, GM Customer Service

c1054
11-09-2012, 01:49 PM
Here is my follow-up. The tire retailer looked at it yesterday, and heard/felt the same vibration and noise coming from the rear. The tire looked normal, with no distortions, lumps, or sign of wear or abuse. They road forced balanced the supposedly bad tire, found it within spec at 5 lbs (?!?!), then took it for a drive and found that the vibration did not go away. While test driving, they noticed that when the transmission was shifted from 5th to 4th in manual mode, the noise went away, leading them to suggest that the issue may be a driveline vibration. I tried to recreate the downshift solution on the way to work this morning, but I can't say for sure it worked (maybe the higher engine revs masked the vibration).

I called my dealer (Coleman in lawrenceville, NJ) and set up a meeting for today with my service writer. I will refer to TSB 10-03-09-001. There is too much smoke for there to be no fire.

Here is the next chapter in my saga. I had my meeting yesterday with the dealer service rep, and explained my concern that there is more to this than the tires. I keep good records, and most of my service has been done at the dealer. I showed them all the different times that the vibration was officially recorded over the last three years, and explained that there were also many undocumented conversations with my previous service writer. I also explained that the car is and always has been totally stock other than the new Continentals, and that I do not track the car or otherwise abuse it. It's a daily driver that I try to keep in good shape.

She was very helpful, and called me this morning to drop off the car for the weekend, and gave me a loaner until they are done. She said that they are going to work through the lengthy TSB 10-03-09-001 procedures step-by-step.

While talking yesterday, she ackowledged that this is a common problem with these vehicles (AMEN!). Overall, very good service attitude by this dealer, and I did not even buy the car there.

I wonder if this is a problem with the new police vehicles? I know the PPVs are based on the Statesman and not the Commodore, but perhaps they are similar enough that it is an issue for both. More importantly, have GM engineers identified a cause and a workable solution? Should I still consider buying the Chevy SS when it comes out in a year or two?

romeyjdogg
11-09-2012, 03:38 PM
Here is the next chapter in my saga. I had my meeting yesterday with the dealer service rep, and explained my concern that there is more to this than the tires. I keep good records, and most of my service has been done at the dealer. I showed them all the different times that the vibration was officially recorded over the last three years, and explained that there were also many undocumented conversations with my previous service writer. I also explained that the car is and always has been totally stock other than the new Continentals, and that I do not track the car or otherwise abuse it. It's a daily driver that I try to keep in good shape.

She was very helpful, and called me this morning to drop off the car for the weekend, and gave me a loaner until they are done. She said that they are going to work through the lengthy TSB 10-03-09-001 procedures step-by-step.

While talking yesterday, she ackowledged that this is a common problem with these vehicles (AMEN!). Overall, very good service attitude by this dealer, and I did not even buy the car there.

I wonder if this is a problem with the new police vehicles? I know the PPVs are based on the Statesman and not the Commodore, but perhaps they are similar enough that it is an issue for both. More importantly, have GM engineers identified a cause and a workable solution? Should I still consider buying the Chevy SS when it comes out in a year or two?
Good to hear you have somebody who is going to take the time to look into this. As stated before, sounds like this is an issue common to many GM platforms, so I'm not hopeful for resolution. Personally, mine is minor at this point, so it doesn't bother me anymore.

Best of luck and let us know what happens

TheStevo
11-09-2012, 11:47 PM
It is kinda annoying that people keep saying it is related to the geometry of the suspension.... If it was that then it would be happening the the Commodores too, and the Luminas in the Middle east, but its not.

It would be nice if we could get a list of part Numbers for the Suspension of the G8, and then a list of Part numbers for the Commodore. Then we can see waht EXACTLY is different. All we know right now is that its a different rack (obviously), but maybe there is more that was changed to make the car cheaper for the US.

TheStevo
11-10-2012, 12:26 AM
Also it seems that the new Caprice has an Updated rack (92251475) than the G8 (92219418). I am kinda wondering why it would be a different rack if it is the exact same suspension setup. Maybe the rack is the issue but they arent telling anyone??

TLS
11-10-2012, 04:05 AM
The rack on the PPV likely has a different ratio.

Still think a lot of this shake being talked about is between flat-spotted tires, warped rotors, and AFM.

romeyjdogg
11-10-2012, 09:26 AM
It is kinda annoying that people keep saying it is related to the geometry of the suspension.... If it was that then it would be happening the the Commodores too, and the Luminas in the Middle east, but its not.

It would be nice if we could get a list of part Numbers for the Suspension of the G8, and then a list of Part numbers for the Commodore. Then we can see waht EXACTLY is different. All we know right now is that its a different rack (obviously), but maybe there is more that was changed to make the car cheaper for the US.

The geometry is different man. If for no other reason than the steering wheel is on a different side of the car...

The reason people are saying this is because there has been no resolution for most of us. People have thrown parts at this issue with no positive outcome. Specifically, please reads posts by jpG8GT: he has tried virtually everything and has received no direction from GM engineers.

The rack on the PPV likely has a different ratio.

Still think a lot of this shake being talked about is between flat-spotted tires, warped rotors, and AFM.

As discussed ad nauseum, this is not what is going on. My AFM is off (or you can use manual mode to get it off), have it after 50 or 100 miles or driving and with different sets of tires (eliminates "flat spotting"), and rotors are within runout spec.

Richard Craneum
11-10-2012, 09:41 AM
Looking at the length of the thread and how many people are affected. I consider myself extremely lucky that I do not have any of these issues.

Even, that I hit the curb hard on my left side for fiddling with the cell phone out of sheer stupidity the car does not pull or vibrates at all. I have a video to prove it. Have not upload it yet; but I will one of these days.

BTW, after 2,000 miles the Michelin Sport Pilot does not have the flat spot the RS-A used to have.

TheStevo
11-10-2012, 02:00 PM
My Afm is turned off , my rotors have practicallt no runout, and i find it virtually impossible for me to have flat spots since i drive my car everyday about 60 miles... altho one of my friends that has been a mechanic for a very long itime said it looks like my rack has a bit of play in it, now i gotta figure out how to make the dealer replace it.

romeyjdogg
11-10-2012, 02:56 PM
My Afm is turned off , my rotors have practicallt no runout, and i find it virtually impossible for me to have flat spots since i drive my car everyday about 60 miles... altho one of my friends that has been a mechanic for a very long itime said it looks like my rack has a bit of play in it, now i gotta figure out how to make the dealer replace it.
Wouldn't you be able to tell if the inner tie rod had play by trying to wiggle the wheel? You would be able to hear something moving or see the wheel moving.

TheStevo
11-10-2012, 04:59 PM
Yes i can tell, but im sure the dealer wont be able too... i also had to show them play in a hub bearing before...

romeyjdogg
11-10-2012, 08:37 PM
Yes i can tell, but im sure the dealer wont be able too... i also had to show them play in a hub bearing before...
Guh...the joys.

G8Silbllt
11-10-2012, 08:49 PM
Just a thought....Could the boat ride over or shipping manner caused premature wear or play in the racks to many of our cars? It's a common thread to all of our cars with the issue of course....

romeyjdogg
11-10-2012, 09:34 PM
Just a thought....Could the boat ride over or shipping manner caused premature wear or play in the racks to many of our cars? It's a common thread to all of our cars with the issue of course....
Well, we do know a lot of them show up with collapsed strut mounts...so anything is possible I suppose.

TheStevo
11-10-2012, 11:32 PM
Maybe the swaying side to side putting force on the rack since they are tied down?

BTWS6
11-11-2012, 07:43 PM
Just a thought....Could the boat ride over or shipping manner caused premature wear or play in the racks to many of our cars? It's a common thread to all of our cars with the issue of course....


That's a great thought, I know that back in the early 80's GM had a problem with a specific car line that was being damaged on long train rides because of the way they were chaining them down.

c1054
11-12-2012, 11:24 AM
I have another follow-up regarding my car (see post #969 for my previous update). The dealer called and said the vibration was cured by replacing the engine mounts. According to the trouble-shooting procedure in TSB 10-03-09-001, the mounts become suspect after tires, wheels, and brakes have been ruled out. The only problem I have with this fix is that I thought mounts are a solution to excessive vibration caused by the AFM, which was not my issue. My car also vibrated with the AFM disengaged via manual transmission mode.

I am going to get the car now and go for a ride with the tech. I really hope this works.

romeyjdogg
11-12-2012, 04:49 PM
I have another follow-up regarding my car (see post #969 for my previous update). The dealer called and said the vibration was cured by replacing the engine mounts. According to the trouble-shooting procedure in TSB 10-03-09-001, the mounts become suspect after tires, wheels, and brakes have been ruled out. The only problem I have with this fix is that I thought mounts are a solution to excessive vibration caused by the AFM, which was not my issue. My car also vibrated with the AFM disengaged via manual transmission mode.

I am going to get the car now and go for a ride with the tech. I really hope this works.
How'd this go?

SMSO966
11-12-2012, 07:07 PM
Fixed my steering wheel shake today!!!

romeyjdogg
11-12-2012, 08:09 PM
fixed my steering wheel shake today!!!
ಠ_ಠ

SpeedRacerX
11-12-2012, 08:34 PM
Fixed my steering wheel shake today!!!

Got rid of the car???

SMSO966
11-12-2012, 08:36 PM
I changed my lower control arms and radius rods (replacing the new stock bushings with Super Pro radius rod bushings from BMR) and re-aligned the front.

Took a total of two hours.

c1054
11-13-2012, 07:59 AM
How'd this go?

I picked up the car yesterday (see post #985). The vibration seems to be gone (or at least masked) by the new engine mounts. I maintain that there is a deeper issue with the vehicle that is likely not 100% solveable, but it is hard to continue raising hell based solely on my intuition. The casual rider in my car would not notice anything, but I, like most G8 owners, am not a casual rider. I love driving and the feeling of being immersed in the vehicle.

The mounts will do fine, at least for now. Given what has happened, I am obsessing about every little noise and shake; if you look for trouble, you often find it. The big test will be when I do my next tire rotation. Rotations seem to upset the machine's delicate balance.

I have to give a credit to the Coleman GMC service department for their patience and willingness to get things right.

BMan
11-13-2012, 10:26 AM
I picked up the car yesterday (see post #985). The vibration seems to be gone (or at least masked) by the new engine mounts. I maintain that there is a deeper issue with the vehicle that is likely not 100% solveable, but it is hard to continue raising hell based solely on my intuition. The casual rider in my car would not notice anything, but I, like most G8 owners, am not a casual rider. I love driving and the feeling of being immersed in the vehicle.

The mounts will do fine, at least for now. Given what has happened, I am obsessing about every little noise and shake; if you look for trouble, you often find it. The big test will be when I do my next tire rotation. Rotations seem to upset the machine's delicate balance.

I have to give a credit to the Coleman GMC service department for their patience and willingness to get things right.

That's great news. The improved engine mounts are designed to do just that...mask normal engine vibrations so they don't transmit though the frame/steering rack/etc causing unwanted vibrations and other harmonic pulsations. As an FYI, my car still has the original transmission mount(s). It is my understanding that GM also came out with an improved trans mount to better dampen/isolate both normal vibrations emanating from the trans/engine at that subframe connecting point + dampen/isolate a mildly unbalanced driveshaft. I still get the minor pulsating vibrating that comes in and out at highway speeds - if I really wanted to go through the hassle and potential cost of upgrading the trans mount, I guess I'd do that too but my biggest issue was the steering wheel vibration and like I said before, the revised new engine mounts did the trick for me as well. At my next oil change, I'll ask the SA how much it would cost to replace the trans mount. If it's not terribly expensive, I may do it.

GMCustomerService
11-14-2012, 10:36 AM
@TheStevo, I’m sorry to read about your vehicle concerns. I’m curious if you have any further updates to share; were you able to get the vehicle into the dealership and things of that nature.

Michelle, GM Customer Service

GMCustomerService
11-14-2012, 12:44 PM
@c1054, would you like me to forward a compliment to the dealership on your behalf?

Michelle, GM Customer Service

EMS Guy
11-14-2012, 02:06 PM
Just put on another set of tires for the winter. No shakes. Appears the deal was entirely balance and related.

EMS Guy
11-14-2012, 02:06 PM
@c1054, would you like me to forward a compliment to the dealership on your behalf?

Michelle, GM Customer Service

Glad to see GM with a voice on here about issues. :wink2:

GMCustomerService
11-15-2012, 01:47 PM
Thank you, EMS Guy! I’m happy to be on the forums with all of you. Please, don’t hesitate to contact me with comments, questions and concerns or to just say hello.

Michelle, GM Customer Service

SpeedRacerX
04-21-2013, 10:48 AM
Sorry to revive this notorious old thread.

New tires and a road force balancing has eliminated 90% of the steering wheel shake I had at 60-70 mph.

After 4 years, two sets of wheels and tires, the full dealer TSB for this, etc; I finally have some resolution.

johnson05711
04-21-2013, 08:58 PM
Okay so I just got my '08 White Hot G8 GT yesterday and today I noticed that the front end shakes when turning left and right and when I brake it shakes pretty good then too. I'm sure the braking issue is from the rotors but what would cause the shake only when turning?

Back in a Pontiac
04-21-2013, 09:04 PM
Sorry to revive this notorious old thread.

New tires and a road force balancing has eliminated 90% of the steering wheel shake I had at 60-70 mph.

After 4 years, two sets of wheels and tires, the full dealer TSB for this, etc; I finally have some resolution.

For now, lol

SpeedRacerX
04-21-2013, 10:38 PM
For now, lol

I hear ya. LOL.