Now that we have choices between header types I'm really torn. I KNOW long-tubes make better power but they won't mate up to my MagnaFlow cat back. Shorties, on the other hand, will make less power but will mate up to the MF and also should remain emissions legal due to cats being in the original position.

Florida has no vehicle inspections currently. Were I planning to stay here I would probably go long tube but I plan to move to Louisiana which does have inspections, part of which is a "visual inspection for evidence of tampering with the emissions system".

What do you guys think? I need to pass the inspection when I move but I also NEED that power.

Considerations (not necessarily in order):

1- power
2- pass inspection
3- Hate to have wasted money on cat-back system
4- Cost. Price not known yet on shorties with high flow cats but certain to be less than long tubes with cats

Help me out guys!

get both.... put shories on the lft long tube on the right....

I got a similar problem... and am probably ending up with shorties.

If I was in your shoes I'd go with shorties

1.You already have a cat back system - if you went with long tubes you'd have to replace them

fat fingered the keyboard :( sorry

2. Having lived in LA I know the fine for tampering with emissions is significant

3. Unequal-length short-tube headers are by far the most common design, and make more power than the stock headers. Equal-length short-tubes generally make more power than unequal-length short tubes.

4. Having said all that, equal length short tubes will make more power at lower RPM (in my opinion where the LSx motors need help) and long tubes make more power at high RPMs due to their better scavenging

Basically, if you are highly modified - go with long tubes - for a street motor, equal length short tubes are better - third choice would be unequal length short tubes.

Information posted here show this enging is relative insensitive to back pressure - for the money, I'd go with equal length short tubes. And when you find a set let me know who makes them!

fat fingered the keyboard :( sorry

2. Having lived in LA I know the fine for tampering with emissions is significant

3. Unequal-length short-tube headers are by far the most common design, and make more power than the stock headers. Equal-length short-tubes generally make more power than unequal-length short tubes.

4. Having said all that, equal length short tubes will make more power at lower RPM (in my opinion where the LSx motors need help) and long tubes make more power at high RPMs due to their better scavenging

Basically, if you are highly modified - go with long tubes - for a street motor, equal length short tubes are better - third choice would be unequal length short tubes.

Information posted here show this enging is relative insensitive to back pressure - for the money, I'd go with equal length short tubes. And when you find a set let me know who makes them!

Thanks Tom. To your point 2: by LA I mean Louisiana. Do you also or are you thinking Los Angeles? I would expect higher fines in Los Angeles.

and to your closing comments, does that mean the 2 currently available (JBA and Kooks) are the unequal type?

Thanks!

Thanks Tom. To your point 2: by LA I mean Louisiana. Do you also or are you thinking Los Angeles? I would expect higher fines in Los Angeles.

and to your closing comments, does that mean the 2 currently available (JBA and Kooks) are the unequal type?

Thanks!

The pic of the JBA's don't look like equal length, then again that might not be the pic of G8 headers.

The Kooks are also an unknown.

The pic of the JBA's don't look like equal length, then again that might not be the pic of G8 headers.

The Kooks are also an unknown.

Thanks George, that was my thinking as well. Thought maybe Tom had inside info.

Thing is both of them are designed to hook up to otherwise stock exhaust without mods so if the stock exhaust manifolds are unequal, so too will be the headers and vice versa. As to whether the stock manifolds are unequal, I think so but not certain.

Thanks George, that was my thinking as well. Thought maybe Tom had inside info.

Thing is both of them are designed to hook up to otherwise stock exhaust without mods so if the stock exhaust manifolds are unequal, so too will be the headers and vice versa. As to whether the stock manifolds are unequal, I think so but not certain.

I think over the next two or three weeks, you will have a better idea of both of those.

Of course, by then my ARH's should be on my car!

Ha!

:wink2:

:gears:

Yeah, that's a tough deal. I would seriously investigate the ramifications of the mods in the state your G8 will be in. Call some shops there, you know, use superpages. Hopefully you'll get enough information to make your decision easier.
no inspections in Indiana. :D

On fines... it is 10K in texas for modding the exhaust illegally (last ime i checked). I have NEVER heard of anyone being fined here though.

The pic of the JBA's don't look like equal length, then again that might not be the pic of G8 headers.

The Kooks are also an unknown.

That's what has turned me off somewhat on the JBAs - they look of unequal length and therefore non-optimal.

On fines... it is 10K in texas for modding the exhaust illegally (last ime i checked). I have NEVER heard of anyone being fined here though.

Wow 10 grand!!! I didn't know that...but good to know...

Wreck, I too had a cat back on my Z28 already. So I put BBK ceramic shorties on mostly because long tubes are trouble with dropped fbodys. Now that you are going to an inspection state, I would get the shorties. Wait till some more designs come out before you purchase shorties. They made a huge improvement on my LT1, perhaps a little less improvement on an L76 but it will be something. That's the way I would go. I think you also can keep your powertrain warrenty also.

KOOKS will have shorties with high-flo 3in cats soon Wreck. Get those and then you have no worries.

personally wouldn't spend the $1700 on headers, so i'd probably go with shorties, no cats, and an exhaust like what you have...

Yea, shorties are the most likely answer for sure. Thanks guys!

I am doing LTs regardless! I need all my HPs. I want you t hear me / feel me down in La when I launch this thing. :driving:

So what would be the HP/TQ difference between LT's and shorties?

So what would be the HP/TQ difference between LT's and shorties?

Good question. Shorties aren't really out yet, nor are the cats to go with them, so we don't know yet.

From my experience depending on combo, so we will say stock motor testing should be +15 for LTs minimum

Why not just leave the car registered in FL? Gotta have a friend or family member down here?

Why not just leave the car registered in FL? Gotta have a friend or family member down here?

I'm the last family left here.

On fines... it is 10K in texas for modding the exhaust illegally (last ime i checked). I have NEVER heard of anyone being fined here though.

Thats only if a repair facility does it and no way to catch them. You bill out the install calling it something else or shops make you trailer it out as off road use only.

Thats only if a repair facility does it and no way to catch them. You bill out the install calling it something else or shops make you trailer it out as off road use only.


Did anyone else notice, that was GRRRR8 888th post!!!

Did anyone else notice, that was GRRRR8 888th post!!!

How cool is that? I'm proud that it happened in my thread! :)

Now that we have choices between header types I'm really torn. I KNOW long-tubes make better power but they won't mate up to my MagnaFlow cat back. Shorties, on the other hand, will make less power but will mate up to the MF and also should remain emissions legal due to cats being in the original position.

Florida has no vehicle inspections currently. Were I planning to stay here I would probably go long tube but I plan to move to Louisiana which does have inspections, part of which is a "visual inspection for evidence of tampering with the emissions system".

What do you guys think? I need to pass the inspection when I move but I also NEED that power.

Considerations (not necessarily in order):

1- power
2- pass inspection
3- Hate to have wasted money on cat-back system
4- Cost. Price not known yet on shorties with high flow cats but certain to be less than long tubes with cats

Help me out guys!

You could probably sell your cat back system and get a fairly decent return....someone like me might be interested if you were to decide to sell them and go with LT. :)

You could probably sell your cat back system and get a fairly decent return....someone like me might be interested if you were to decide to sell them and go with LT. :)

Yet another consideration...

I wouldn't waste my time with a header with less than a 28" primary tube. JMHO. I have run shorties in the past on other cars and they just don't give near the results of a good long tube. The kooks LT headers made a VERY noticeable difference on my c6 vette and I hope to be a return customer with the g8. The craftsmanship and attention to detail blew me away. Even the collector spike looked beautiful.

Go long or leave it alone :wink2:

Yea, over the last 24 hours I've pretty much decided on long tubes. At this point I can get a very good deal on the ARH system and am hoping to have a similar deal available on the Kooks. Then I'll have to decide between the 2 system and also what to do about muffs.

Did anyone else notice, that was GRRRR8 888th post!!!

HEY! How the hell did I miss that. Just the other night i was eating a snack and the exp. date was 08/08/08. I saved it to start a post of the weird places you find 888.

Go to the Olympics opening - Aug. 8, 2008. Chinese have us beat already.... If you can see anything with the smog.

RRM

OK, help me out a bit more... I've been thinking to go with the 1 7/8 tubes. How much low and mid range am I losing before I get my HP numbers up?

Yea, over the last 24 hours I've pretty much decided on long tubes. At this point I can get a very good deal on the ARH system and am hoping to have a similar deal available on the Kooks. Then I'll have to decide between the 2 system and also what to do about muffs.

I have decided i was going with the LT's too. I'm guess that the magnaflow catback muffs wont work. I'm just going to stick with the stocks. 500+ on a set of kook muffs a bit much for me.

I have decided i was going with the LT's too. I'm guess that the magnaflow catback muffs wont work. I'm just going to stick with the stocks. 500+ on a set of kook muffs a bit much for me.

I can't go stock muffs. I'm either gonna get the axle-back or have the shop mod my current cat-backs to use those muffs.

OK, help me out a bit more... I've been thinking to go with the 1 7/8 tubes. How much low and mid range am I losing before I get my HP numbers up?

Not much! We have a large intake port and the bigger tube allows a bit more timing according to a few tuners. In order to maximize your cars efforts a dyno tune will be coming sooner or later.

We have the Kooks on our site for preorder now..here is the details-
http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?p=77376

Call us at 443-730-9428 and one of our reps can give you great pricing..or just provide general support!

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/REDMALOOR8/img0940-493rfxj0p.jpgway don't you get stepped headers 1/58 in to 13/4 they are very popular over hear in the LS3 mines making 496FHP with headers 200ci ss cats 3"system and maffless 2bar tune a SS INDUCTIONS CIA and my cats are in the OEM position hear is a pic
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/REDMALOOR8/DSC05195.jpg

OK, help me out a bit more... I've been thinking to go with the 1 7/8 tubes. How much low and mid range am I losing before I get my HP numbers up? not alot but with a heavy car it will show up much more. Unless you plan to put a huffer on it or bump up the displacement, there really is no need to run 1 7/8" unless you just really think you need that last couple of hp on the big end.

Big mods, most likely a blower, are definitely coming but it may take me a year or so to get there. Right now I just want to make sure I don't screw up on the headers. I want to be ready for the future but need to be sure the cost to the immediate future isn't too high.

My thinking is that the low-mid end loss with the 1 7/8 is not going to be large, basically looking for confirmations :)

Big mods, most likely a blower, are definitely coming but it may take me a year or so to get there. Right now I just want to make sure I don't screw up on the headers. I want to be ready for the future but need to be sure the cost to the immediate future isn't too high.

My thinking is that the low-mid end loss with the 1 7/8 is not going to be large, basically looking for confirmations :)

I'm in the same boat. I'll be curios as to what you decide. Selling my MagnaFlows is and option, but the cost of the long tubes is high. I don't like the inspection issue either. Headers are a must though if any more mods are going to be fully exploited.

--Mike

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/REDMALOOR8/img0940-493rfxj0p.jpgway don't you get stepped headers 1/58 in to 13/4 they are very popular over hear in the LS3 mines making 496FHP with headers 200ci ss cats 3"system and maffless 2bar tune a SS INDUCTIONS CIA and my cats are in the OEM position hear is a pic
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/REDMALOOR8/DSC05195.jpg

You are going to get a lot of questions about that OTR CAI.

LOL
Get ready.

You are going to get a lot of questions about that OTR CAI.

LOL
Get ready.

true enough. Can't believe a US company hasn't developed one yet. I would think sales would be brisk at least. The only reason nobody buys the Aussie ones is price.

I'd like to see the underside of the hood as well as a picture of this vehicle with the hood down.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/REDMALOOR8/DSC05195.jpg

It draws the air through the gap between grille and hood. No mass air either from what I read.

It draws the air through the gap between grille and hood. No mass air either from what I read.


Yep. Costs like $900 or some ridiculous number.

It draws the air through the gap between grille and hood. No mass air either from what I read.

You're saying no MAF sensor? So SD-only with this intake?

Yep. Costs like $900 or some ridiculous number.

it costs $637 US... i am talking to them now to try and get them to offer it over here... as long as you don't care about your warranty, you can go MAFless safely, it's all in the tune...

You're saying no MAF sensor? So SD-only with this intake?
my tuner told me you can still monitor what the MAF monitors with a map sensor, i think... i am not sure, but i am going up there tomm and will get a solid answer...

it costs $637 US... i am talking to them now to try and get them to offer it over here... as long as you don't care about your warranty, you can go MAFless safely, it's all in the tune...


my tuner told me you can still monitor what the MAF monitors with a map sensor, i think... i am not sure, but i am going up there tomm and will get a solid answer...

Yes they use map to tune instead of maf like a turbo car. O2s and A/F also necessary for the tune.

they told me they will be putting a wideband gauge(?) and open loop thingy... i dunno, im not a tuner, i trust these guys to a T tho...

they told me they will be putting a wideband gauge(?) and open loop thingy... i dunno, im not a tuner, i trust these guys to a T tho...

That would be correct sir.

i gotta get you in contact with my guys... you'd love em... our builder is a GM Master Tech with a ****load of experience (like you), and he has dreamt up many of the same mods you did... you guys would get along well... the master tuner is an effin genius too...

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/REDMALOOR8/DSC05142.jpghttp://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/REDMALOOR8/DSC05109.jpghttp://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/REDMALOOR8/DSC05111.jpgI'd like to see the underside of the hood as well as a picture of this vehicle with the hood down.


hear you go

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa297/REDMALOOR8/DSC05113.jpg

Now that's nice!! :judge:

That's what I'm talking about - function first, form second. :driving:

I'm confused ... someone please clear this up ...

The ARH LT Headers are listed at $1700 ...

The Kooks LT Headers are listed at $777 ...

I probably read something wrong ... someone please clarify ...

I'm confused ... someone please clear this up ...

The ARH LT Headers are listed at $1700 ...

The Kooks LT Headers are listed at $777 ...

I probably read something wrong ... someone please clarify ...

ARH goes all the way to axle as one part number (mid-pipe included), Kooks requires a second part to go to axle. Your Kooks price is just the headers, not the mid-pipe.

I sent an email to JHP, the company in Austrailia that mfg's the OTR CAI's. I was told that they are still engineering theirs as the heat from the radiator was too extreme. The OTR CAI was on their website but used a flat panel type filter.

I sent an email to JHP, the company in Austrailia that mfg's the OTR CAI's. I was told that they are still engineering theirs as the heat from the radiator was too extreme. The OTR CAI was on their website but used a flat panel type filter.

I checked in to it a month or so ago and that was the same info I received.

no offense, but the MF catback was a waste of money. I would never buy any catback unless I didn't care about HP gains and only wanted a decent sound without any other exhaust mods.

sell it.

buy LT's with cats, emissions inspectors would be clueless as to any changes from stock.

run stock exhaust (cat-back)

LT's with stock exhaust wont' be sacraficing any power and will still sound great.

problem solved.

the stock mid pipes are very restrictive. Thats where the mf catback gets all its power from. Not only does it sound awesome, but it DOES add power.