Talked to Kooks today... they said that their equal length shorties will be available to ship within a week or so, MSRP will be out then. Headers will have 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 primaries and come with high flow cats.

cool!

Nice, im waiting for VMS to get these in!

Talked to Kooks today... they said that their equal length shorties will be available to ship within a week or so, MSRP will be out then. Headers will have 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 primaries and come with high flow cats.


They only doing shorties or LT's as well?

Both. The LTs will be mufflers and all.

Both. The LTs will be mufflers and all.

I guess it is actually six systems, tube wise... 1 3/4 shorties, 1 3/4 Longtube (where you keep your stock cat backs or swap to a third party ct back) and a 1 3/4 primary full header to tailpipe system...

rinse and repeat with 1 7/8...

What would be the difference between a 1 3/4 system and a 1 7/8. Sorry about the dumb question. Still kind of new to headers...

the primary pipes are slightly different diameter. The 1 3/4 tends to work better for lower hp 1 7/8 works better for higher output (think supercharged 600 hp) outputs...

The 1 7/8 may loose torque on the bottom end on a stock or lightly modded motor.

but if one plans to upgrade in the future the bigger tubs are usually the better choice.

So lets say i wanted to stay around 450ish rwhp i should just go with the 1 3/4?

yes...

Cool, thanks man! Appreciate it!

So lets say i wanted to stay around 450ish rwhp i should just go with the 1 3/4?

Nick at ARH told me 1 3/4 is good to 500rwhp on a NA engine.

interesting

I will be almost positively ordering these assuming the price isnt crazy. I really wanted the ARH LT setup, but cost combined with potential for emissions issues had me a little adverse. Looking forward to more info.

I will be almost positively ordering these assuming the price isnt crazy. I really wanted the ARH LT setup, but cost combined with potential for emissions issues had me a little adverse. Looking forward to more info.

Sent PM

We've got a little bit of info in our Vendor section; these things rock!

We typically recommend 1 3/4" for up to 550 rwhp. These will be rocking!

Talked to Kooks today... they said that their equal length shorties will be available to ship within a week or so, MSRP will be out then. Headers will have 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 primaries and come with high flow cats.

I talked to Kook Jr. today and the price is $1795.00 power gains are about 32rwhp and 28rwtq. You can increase pwr with a tune, I'm sure VSM can do that. The system looks great, check it out on YouTube. :driving:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVsbU93OOx4

I talked to Kook Jr. today and the price is $1795.00 power gains are about 32rwhp and 28rwtq. You can increase pwr with a tune, I'm sure VSM can do that. The system looks great, check it out on YouTube. :driving:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVsbU93OOx4

I am really hopin that is not the price for shorties but for the full system. Those gains ook a little high for an untuned set of short tubes...

Ya i hope its not 1795 for the shorties... looks like i may not be getting them anytime soon afterall.

Talked to them today..the retail price is $1795 for 1 3/4" with full catted X-pipe that bolts to whatever axleback.. Of course no one pays retail, and we will have some killer deals on these:) Though they may cost alot..LT's are the performance building block for this motor.

The shorties will be entering production at a later date. I really think most people will get the LT system anyway once they see how much the shorties would/will cost.

Talked to them today..the retail price is $1795 for 1 3/4" with full catted X-pipe that bolts to whatever axleback.. Of course no one pays retail, and we will have some killer deals on these:) Though they may cost alot..LT's are the performance building block for this motor.

The shorties will be entering production at a later date. I really think most people will get the LT system anyway once they see how much the shorties would/will cost.

Some of us are thinking shorties for legal reasons not just cost. Are you saying the shorties are going to be very pricey?

I imagine the MSRP on shorties will be about 11-1200 including cats...

you will probably be able to get them for 7-900 IMHO, YMMV, WAG, prices and participation may vary, batteries not included.

So, ARH and Kooks full system to whoever's axle-backs are about the same, price wise and power gains.

I imagine the MSRP on shorties will be about 11-1200 including cats...

you will probably be able to get them for 7-900 IMHO, YMMV, WAG, prices and participation may vary, batteries not included.

That about what I expected too but his statement about "when we see how much the shorties cost" got me concerned.

I will probably do shorties simply because I will already have a cat back... either way I figure exhaust alone with no tune will get me damn close to 400 CHP which is damn good.

That about what I expected too but his statement about "when we see how much the shorties cost" got me concerned.

Me too. I would like to do shorties cause i dont plan on staying in this state forever. Will the shorties sound different then LT. I love the way the LT's sounded in the video. Would like to try and aim for that same sound.

Talked to them today..the retail price is $1795 for 1 3/4" with full catted X-pipe that bolts to whatever axleback.. Of course no one pays retail, and we will have some killer deals on these:) Though they may cost alot..LT's are the performance building block for this motor.

The shorties will be entering production at a later date. I really think most people will get the LT system anyway once they see how much the shorties would/will cost.

So what happened to the full system in the video then? I thought they had header to bumper he was talking about?

So what happened to the full system in the video then? I thought they had header to bumper he was talking about?

I guess it is actually six systems, tube wise... 1 3/4 shorties, 1 3/4 Longtube (where you keep your stock cat backs or swap to a third party cat back) and a 1 3/4 primary full header to tailpipe system...

rinse and repeat with 1 7/8...

Give them a couple weeks man...

So, ARH and Kooks full system to whoever's axle-backs are about the same, price wise and power gains.

Power wise there will be no difference. Quality wise there will be no difference. ARH was the 1st and I think that says something. There will always be competition between vendors on who is better, but realistically speaking if you look at the quality of both I personally see no reason to pick I over the other. I sure dont want an obnoxiously loud 4 dr sedan, so I dont care about the muffs anyways.

Will the Kooks system bolt to the stock mufflers? I haven't seen anything that says so. If it did, it might be a slightly better value for $100 more (MSRP) including high flo mufflers. I remember Stolen Fox saying it was a 15 minute swap from the stockers to his stuff. So with a minimal amount of work, you could get the best of both worlds. Stock muffs for everyday, Kooks for cruises, track days whatever.

Will the Kooks system bolt to the stock mufflers? I haven't seen anything that says so. If it did, it might be a slightly better value for $100 more (MSRP) including high flo mufflers. I remember Stolen Fox saying it was a 15 minute swap from the stockers to his stuff. So with a minimal amount of work, you could get the best of both worlds. Stock muffs for everyday, Kooks for cruises, track days whatever.

$1795 no muffs has been posted so far.

$1795 no muffs has been posted so far.

Whoops my bad. ASSumed it was w/mufflers.:drink:

$1795 no muffs has been posted so far.

Well as of closing time today final pricing wasnt released yet. If that is correct its MSRP which none of you guys will have to worry about

Well as of closing time today final pricing wasnt released yet. If that is correct its MSRP which none of you guys will have to worry about


Thats what i like to hear!:driving:

Yeah... damn those companies and teir MSRPs..

*GRINZ*

I am really hopin that is not the price for shorties but for the full system. Those gains ook a little high for an untuned set of short tubes...

This price is for the LT kit that you saw in the vid.

Will the Kooks system bolt to the stock mufflers? I haven't seen anything that says so. If it did, it might be a slightly better value for $100 more (MSRP) including high flo mufflers. I remember Stolen Fox saying it was a 15 minute swap from the stockers to his stuff. So with a minimal amount of work, you could get the best of both worlds. Stock muffs for everyday, Kooks for cruises, track days whatever.

It does bolt to the stock muffs or you can use an aftermarket brand. I would keep the the stock muffs too.

Hmmm... without going out and crawling under my car in the rain, do the muffs off the MF cat-back attach in the same place as stock? In other words would they attach to the LT headers?

What about EGR valves? Do we have EGR valves and, if so, do headers (any of them) have the hookups?

no... the mufflers stock hook up near the rear axle... the cat backs hook up... well at the cats...

no clue on whether we have an egr... I assume so and if we do i imagine the headers have the hook up for it.

Hmmm... without going out and crawling under my car in the rain, do the muffs off the MF cat-back attach in the same place as stock? In other words would they attach to the LT headers?

What about EGR valves? Do we have EGR valves and, if so, do headers (any of them) have the hookups?

No EGR Wreck!

They hook up beyond the cats, they came in several pieces but I think you're right, not same place so using the MF mufflers with LTs would require cutting and welding (thereby increasing cost).

No EGR Wreck!

NO EGR stock? Cool. Assume the headers will have bungs for the O2 sensors, yes?

No EGR Wreck!

I paid 30K for my car and hey did not include an EGR?

Who do i hve to sue?

I paid 30K for my car and hey did not include an EGR?

Who do i hve to sue?

Take your meds wild man! Yes the headers will be ready to bolt-on and install and all provisions necessary will be in the header. I am going to use ARH 1 7/8 only because I will try to go beyond 500. I will tell anyone 1 3/4 is plenty for non cammed/ power adder etc. ARH has always answered my questions and Nick will return your call if you have questions. They are slammed with G8 orders now so PM or e-mail just incase. I like the way they treat their customers.

I honestly am realy hoping oxidisr comes through with the magnaflow cats... who know though, kooks may end up as a better deal...

The retail for the muffled axleback system (PT# 6718) is $595 retail. This is on top of the 1 3/4" LT headers (PT# 6711) which retails for $865.00 and the catted X-pipe (PT# 6711-CX) which retails for $929.00 (!). These are retail prices..so expect to pay less.

As for the shorty system..there is nothing emissions legal about the Kooks system. The whole reason shorties are emissions legal is because they hook to the factory cats. It is technically illegal to relocate or replace a functioning cat in any way shape or form. The Kooks system from my understanding requires their high flow cats and moves them slightly rearward..which means they still are not emissions legal. The only advantage to them would be that they fit the factory catback..or something like Magnaflow. But again...you will be leaving 15-20 HP on the table by going shorty vs. LT.

I think you will see the G8 exhaust maufacturers do like the Corvette and offer both full catbacks, and axleback exhausts.

TIt is technically illegal to relocate or replace a functioning cat in any way shape or form.

That's not entirely correct. You can replace the cats after 80,000 miles if you have a documented issue with the stock ones.

That's why I said functioning..:)

That's not entirely correct. You can replace the cats after 80,000 miles if you have a documented issue with the stock ones.

That's why I said functioning..:)

They could be functioning but be documented otherwise. :judge:

Let's just agree that we both know more about this than we want or need to. :)

So if I say hit a large peice of a truck and my exhaust system was trashed at 3400 miles...

And i belive the requirement is for the cat not to move more that 3 inches.

The retail for the muffled axleback system (PT# 6718) is $595 retail. This is on top of the 1 3/4" LT headers (PT# 6711) which retails for $865.00 and the catted X-pipe (PT# 6711-CX) which retails for $929.00 (!). These are retail prices..so expect to pay less.

As for the shorty system..there is nothing emissions legal about the Kooks system. The whole reason shorties are emissions legal is because they hook to the factory cats. It is technically illegal to relocate or replace a functioning cat in any way shape or form. The Kooks system from my understanding requires their high flow cats and moves them slightly rearward..which means they still are not emissions legal. The only advantage to them would be that they fit the factory catback..or something like Magnaflow. But again...you will be leaving 15-20 HP on the table by going shorty vs. LT.

I think you will see the G8 exhaust maufacturers do like the Corvette and offer both full catbacks, and axleback exhausts.

At least it looks like they are selling the lt headers without the x pipe... i am sure i can get some high flow cats and fab up st to work with the magnaflow cat back....

course i am probably still doing shorties... i know it is less power but i am only looking for 400 at the wheels so...

So if I say hit a large peice of a truck and my exhaust system was trashed at 3400 miles...

And i belive the requirement is for the cat not to move more that 3 inches.

Magnusson-Moss would allow you to replace a rusted out or plugged CAT with a universal one-size-fits-all from Pep Boys or NAPA. Just because it is covered by a emissions warranty does not mean you need to have it replaced paid by warranty - and there is no core charge.

Options to 'legally' change CAT?
1. park car and next morning some enterprising soul cut cats out of a bunch of cars to sell the platinum, yours included.
2. Make a huge error and somehow have put some leaded avgas in your tank. (or the refinery messed up)

#3 what are the chances the ex burger flipper would notice anything but LTs if that. I took my 03 Mach 1 with Bassani Mid Length headers and NO cats for SI 4 times, always passed and they looked under it! They plug under the dash, NO light, No codes heres your sticker. :)

I make 383rwhp through kooks 1 7/8 (I have a GTO, not a G8). This is just a bolt on car, on a dyno that has never read a GTO with my mods higher than this (that I know of). Most show 360s / 370s. None of this mythical loss of low end people go on and on about.

On a 346 I'd be doing 1 3/4, but we have more displacement at 364 (and the LS3 guys even more), so I don't see why you'd turn down a higher flowing header. If a cam or boost is in your future at all, don't even think twice about it. 1 7/8". You guys have nice heads just begging to be cammed.

Now, if you want to be headers only, then 1 3/4 is a good choice.

JMHO though.

I make 383rwhp through kooks 1 7/8 (I have a GTO, not a G8). This is just a bolt on car, on a dyno that has never read a GTO with my mods higher than this (that I know of). Most show 360s / 370s. None of this mythical loss of low end people go on and on about.

On a 346 I'd be doing 1 3/4, but we have more displacement at 364 (and the LS3 guys even more), so I don't see why you'd turn down a higher flowing header. If a cam or boost is in your future at all, don't even think twice about it. 1 7/8". You guys have nice heads just begging to be cammed.

Now, if you want to be headers only, then 1 3/4 is a good choice.

JMHO though.

i agree; can't see going with the smaller tubes.

i agree; can't see going with the smaller tubes.

Bigger is not always better. Too large of a tube will loose low end and mid range torque. Peak hp number is not the be all end all. The total area under the curve is just as important. The 1 7/8" headers did not show any significant gain in hp on the LS7s over 1 3/4" but the 1 3/4" headers did show better low and mid range torque over the 1 7/8s. Again, you are not going to see real gains from the 1 7/8s, over the 1 3/4s, until you get over ~550rwhp no mater the engine displacement.

Bigger is not always better. Too large of a tube will loose low end and mid range torque. Peak hp number is not the be all end all. The total area under the curve is just as important. The 1 7/8" headers did not show any significant gain in hp on the LS7s over 1 3/4" but the 1 3/4" headers did show better low and mid range torque over the 1 7/8s. Again, you are not going to see real gains from the 1 7/8s, over the 1 3/4s, until you get over ~550rwhp no mater the engine displacement.

Agreed but I plan to have those type of numbers eventually so I would rather give up the torque now rather than buy another header system a year down the road. My feelings is that the loss will be barely noticable even though I agree that its measurable.

1 3/4" make more low end TQ. The smaller diameter primary pressurizes the exhaust gas faster which builds exhaust velocity sooner. 1 7/8" will make less low end TQ because the exhaust is less pressurized when it enters the primary. It kinda like a garden hose. If you buy a garden hose that is 1/2" bigger diameter..the end result is the water comes out the end slow.1 7/8" however will make slightly higher HP numbers because the larger primaries can flow the maximum exhaust output of the engine better.

My advice is if you are gonna stay under 500 rwhp..get 1 3/4". There is no loss in low end TQ, they will fit slightly better..and are just right. If you think you may go over 500 RWHP, get 1 7/8" and even though you might loose 3 ft/lbs of TQ at 1000RPM, you will never notice it driving around.

That I can agree on. Except I am getting shorties, so I am not sure how the hose analogy plays into that.

I make 383rwhp through kooks 1 7/8 (I have a GTO, not a G8). This is just a bolt on car, on a dyno that has never read a GTO with my mods higher than this (that I know of). Most show 360s / 370s. None of this mythical loss of low end people go on and on about.

On a 346 I'd be doing 1 3/4, but we have more displacement at 364 (and the LS3 guys even more), so I don't see why you'd turn down a higher flowing header. If a cam or boost is in your future at all, don't even think twice about it. 1 7/8". You guys have nice heads just begging to be cammed.

Now, if you want to be headers only, then 1 3/4 is a good choice.

JMHO though.

Well the guy who makes the headers (Nick @ ARH) told me to go with 1 3/4, even after I told him it would have the cam replaced this year.

I'm going with his recommendation.

I saw the Kooks car at Vengance Racing today and it sounds SICK!!!!

They took a video of my stock exhaust beside it reving should be up sometime soon.

Well the guy who makes the headers (Nick @ ARH) told me to go with 1 3/4, even after I told him it would have the cam replaced this year.

I'm going with his recommendation.

Nick went over and over this. When I told him I may do stroked short block or 7.0 he said do 1 7/8. I talked to Mike and in the time he has known me he also said that. So up to 500hp 1 3/4 will be great

That I can agree on. Except I am getting shorties, so I am not sure how the hose analogy plays into that.

If Lt's are a hose I guess shorties are one of those bendy soda straws?

Nick went over and over this. When I told him I may do stroked short block or 7.0 he said do 1 7/8. I talked to Mike and in the time he has known me he also said that. So up to 500hp 1 3/4 will be great

What did you finally decide? I ordered 1 3/4. I know you were leaning that way.

I ordered 1 7/8, going on another recommendation.

my questions are how well would the kooks full system (lts) compliment a maggie? and does any one make a cam that is a nice compliment for our engines + an SC? i could just imagine how that would sound!!!!!






some one give me a towl i think i just messed my self

What did you finally decide? I ordered 1 3/4. I know you were leaning that way.

The decision wasnt on size it was on who. Once the others came out i didnt see any reason not to stick with my original decision, plus I was waiting on the $$$. I changed the size due to a chance after the 1st of the year I may have over 400 cu inches. I also have a screamin deal on a set of CNCd L92 heads brand new in the boxes. Either way plus Mike talked with me knowing I wouldnt stop at 450-500. I cant afford to do anything twice so I will sacrifice a little now just incase, because I think we all know that means its just a matter of time.

The decision wasnt on size it was on who. Once the others came out i didnt see any reason not to stick with my original decision, plus I was waiting on the $$$. I changed the size due to a chance after the 1st of the year I may have over 400 cu inches. I also have a screamin deal on a set of CNCd L92 heads brand new in the boxes. Either way plus Mike talked with me knowing I wouldnt stop at 450-500. I cant afford to do anything twice so I will sacrifice a little now just incase, because I think we all know that means its just a matter of time.

Ah, I see.

I'm probably going to stop at cam swap/clean up the heads.

I don't see me doing a stroker.

Now, if they came out with a coupe...

Ah, I see.

I'm probably going to stop at cam swap/clean up the heads.

I don't see me doing a stroker.

Now, if they came out with a coupe...

I will do the heads for sure. That will be a trade for labor and a little cash. The 408 is all bullet proof good for 750+ 10.5 compression. He is getting out of racing and I built a few cars with/for him. Engine is new everything never had heads on it. If he can get most of his $$ out of it I told him to sell it, but if he cant, I will swap for a ton of free labor(for life) . I will shoot for 550 to the wheels and thats it. Part of me thinks it would be better to have less HP so I would not have to baby it. If it happens it happens. I think with L92 heads and ported intake Mikes combo would go 450+ to the wheels.

It would work great! LT's and a nice exhaust are a must for any FI setup:)

my questions are how well would the kooks full system (lts) compliment a maggie? and does any one make a cam that is a nice compliment for our engines + an SC? i could just imagine how that would sound!!!!!






some one give me a towl i think i just messed my self

It would work great! LT's and a nice exhaust are a must for any FI setup:)

what about a cam to compliment the S/C? from what i have heard, the maggie makes like 460 at the rubber. so im wondering is what kind of power a set of LTs and a complete system and a nice cam that would work well with that S/C would make? im thinking closer to 500-550?

We have the Kooks on our site for preorder now..here is the details-
http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?p=77376

Call us at 443-730-9428 and one of our reps can give you great pricing..or just provide general support!

We have the Kooks on our site for preorder now..here is the details-
http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?p=77376

Call us at 443-730-9428 and one of our reps can give you great pricing..or just provide general support!



So... I'm confused there. Do the longtubes include all the mid-section piping? Because you have a longtubes, and an axleback part... how about everything in between? The "longtubes" photo just shows the headers... seems something is missing there :D


Nevermind, I'm a little slow in the morning and didn't scroll down. Looks like the LT's include the x-pipe/rest of the piping to the axle's.

I think he forgot a piece in the post.

The X-pipe is pictured and ordered with the headers via the dropdown boxes.

Also..as far as preordering your headers. We only authorize your card..and do not fully bill it untill the product ships. If you are impatient like I am..you likely don't want to miss out on the first run. When the GTO headers were flying off the shelves some people waited 4-6 weeks for them!