As you may know my other vehicle is an r-1. I just got done selling a 06 GSX-r600. The latter vehicle is equipped with a slipper clutch...

I was wondering if it would be possible from an engineering standpoint to put a similar device on an automatic transmission car...

Hear me out.

The primary reason for the slipper clutch is to limit engine breaking and therefore rear wheel lockups when the rear wheel speed X overall drive ratio exceeds engine speed by a large margin. This allows the rider to downshift very vigorously and release the clutch without fear of locking and sliding the rear of the bike. It has the added effect that it does not allow the engine to be forced over the redline if you accidentlly shift down a couple gears further than you intended whilst decelerating... in essence the clutch will not flly engage if the rear wheel is turning the tranny a great deal faster than the engine is turning.

The reason that this is of interest to me is that there is an electronic device that serves this second purpose in our cars... if you are doing 100 MPH in M6 and you ask for a shift down to M2 the car will go down to M4 or maybe M3 (do not have my car available to check) but the TCM will not le it shift further. If we had a slipper clutch like device then you could shift down to first but the "clutch" would not completly reengage until you dropped to whatever speed redline is in 1st...

This I think would suit my driving style better than what we have now... if I am going from a high speed straigh into a hairpin into a straight I want to be able to slam her down into second and then pt both hands on the wheel to control her through the turn and then punch it, and shift on the exit.

The way it is set up now the car would not let the downshift to second occur until you are already in the corner when you should be worried about steering not shifting...

I know that an automatic does not have a clutch per sey, however the addition of a clutch to the driveline for this purpose alne should be feasable.... hell it might be possible a the midpoint of a two peice drive shaft.

Any input from you greybeards, former racers, ASE mechanincs or shade tree experts is encouraged.

info on slipper clutch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slipper_clutch)

slightly more technical description (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/motorcycle_slipper_clutch_operat.htm)

p71, I don't know why it couldn't be done. That said, the exotic 4-wheeled machinery out there is using double-clutch automanuals with precise rev-matching and very fast, positive engagement. I think these transmissions represent the current state of the art and are probably more effective for cars than a slipper clutch.

(I'm a rider, too - Kawa ZX-12R, no slipper clutch, though.)

you and I are getting more and more similar Z-man... both drive G8s, both riders, both got the MCM connection, both big fans of Douglas Adams...

I agree that you are right on dual stage clutched machines etc... however even those wll refuse to downshift if you try to put them into a situation where wheelspeed and gearing would put engine speed ablve redline. On a slipper clutch equipped bike you can be doing 186 in sixth gear, pull in the clutch slap her down to first and the bike will go into first... the clutch just will not reengae until ou slow to about 95-105 dependig on what you are riding. Weird feeling but it works.

you and I are getting more and more similar Z-man... both drive G8s, both riders, both got the MCM connection, both big fans of Douglas Adams...

I agree that you are right on dual stage clutched machines etc... however even those wll refuse to downshift if you try to put them into a situation where wheelspeed and gearing would put engine speed ablve redline. On a slipper clutch equipped bike you can be doing 186 in sixth gear, pull in the clutch slap her down to first and the bike will go into first... the clutch just will not reengae until ou slow to about 95-105 dependig on what you are riding. Weird feeling but it works.
You're right, we seem to have a lot in common. An exception would be my advanced age compared with your youth!

I've never ridden a bike with a slipper clutch but I understand they work really well. My understanding is that the intent is to prevent the rear wheel from locking up when you're banging down gears and being a little sloppy on rev matching.

So, if you do just as you say - at 14,000 rpm in 6th gear, pull the clutch, bang down to 1st, let out the clutch - what is going on at the rear wheel? (And what does it take to burn that clutch out?)

The rear wheel keeps turning a 186 MPH the engine keeps rotating at 14000 rpm (actually closer to 16500 rpm... there have been a few changes since the '12)... unless it is really slippery, then the back wheel locks up and you die...

I have never actually done it from flat out but i have shifted down into first at 140ish and it was basically like i was feathering the clutch at the point of engagement. I have never burnt out a clutch in any vehicle I have owned, so I do not know what it takes....

Probably 42 of something...

Probably 42 of something...
Of course! :wink2:

Come on now someone other than the former president of the galaxy must have an idea... I mean he does have two breains but still...

My only question is why on earth if you were going that fast, would you want to downshift all the way to first?

I think that would work if the G8 would turn 14000 rpms. Stay tuned for the GRRRR8 14,000 rpm mod. LMAO :slap:

My only question is why on earth if you were going that fast, would you want to downshift all the way to first?

It allows you to concentrate all your energies on breaking and steering during the transition from a long straight to a switchback that has an exit speed requiring first gear...

It doesn't have to be first... I mean it could be switching down to third early standing on the breaks and having it in third to exit the corner....

I think that would work if the G8 would turn 14000 rpms. Stay tuned for the GRRRR8 14,000 rpm mod. LMAO :slap:

Yeah... assuming you can get torque to not drop off you end up with a little over 1000 HP...

Seriously you tune the slipper clutch to the motor... you can design it to slip wherever you want...

Come on now someone other than the former president of the galaxy must have an idea... I mean he does have two breains but still...

...but 1-1/2 of my brains are preoccupied with the effects of Pan-Galactic Gargle Blasters......

Honestly I spen ost of my time trying to coprehend my slice of the WSOGMM so I do not need my brain bashed out by lime encrusted, gold-bricklike drinks.

Well, OK then - how 'bout straight tequila shots with cold beer chasers?

Grinz... actually I tend to stick to single malt old scotch, white russians, and the occasional bottle of red stripe or bud select...

If you are in town in the next couple three weeks give me a heads up and I will but the first round.

I'll be in Abilene for a quick turnaround on the 20th, getting my daughter moved into her dorm. Unfortunately I have to turn right back around for Cowtown.

I'll be there two or three times later in the semester and I'll let you know.

I will be in Iraq...

Hit me up on the 20th if you need some help with the heavy lifting.

Thx, man. :)

Hey anything for a fellow undergraduate formerly known as an Indian and/or their immediate family.

...formerly known as an Indian...
Funny you should mention that.

During a couple of the orientation sessions I attended the McM staff noted that the "Indian" moniker was still applicable, except for NCAA-sanctioned sports, for which the school is now known simply as McM U.

So it's like they're thumbing their noses a little bit at the whole political correctness issue. I like that.

Our cross town rivals are the Cowboys... what else are we going to call ourselves?

Seriusly we still have vision quest... they still put out tee pees, there is still a brass model of an indian cheif in the quad, there are still indian war headresses on display...

besides FSU is still the 'noles, ND is still the Irish and Cadillac High School is still the Vikings...

I dunno... if we keep being politically correct we are all going to end up being named after tress: the Elms or the Oaks... or the Buckeyes

I have a slipper in my 06 R6. It is soooo much better than the non slipper in my 01 GSXR. I would constantly have the back end on the GSXR hopping around on corner entry.

At HPT the first time on my R6, I was seriously feeling like Nicky Hayden when the back end felt like it was sliding sideways forever coming outta the backstraight. (I'm sure it was not that drastic, but it felt good!)

what a post getting somewhat back on topic?... sacrelige!

what a post getting somewhat back on topic?... sacrelige!

Woops!!! sorry to "threadjack" :)

the ZF auto tranny in the 3 series bmw has something like that. im not shure ho wit works. i know i was doing a little auto-x in a friend of mines and down shifted to fast, and the revs went to red line for ever. but no wheel lock up or any thing like that. just turn in, hit the apex, and once i was back on the gas, i was in the proper gear. i duno if this helps or where to go look for a refrence point. just my .02 cents