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LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9


That car is begging for it.... :-)

Lol, that would be nice but i think it will have the LS3. The LS9 would IMHO make the cost of the car be more than the 35-40k range. And Gm cant step on the CTS-V so i think the LS3 would make more since.

Well the CTS-V is obviously more expensive that the G8 is going to be.. Plus it's a totally different car.. The GTO and CTS-V shared the LS2 and the Goat is faster than the V... As far as price goes... Well if it's under $45k, It's still a bargain.. Take a look at a new 2006 Mitsu EVO 9 MR SE Edition, out the door is $37,890.. ALMOST $38,000... for a 4 cylinder. Base price Audi S4 with 350hp is $45k, It would be a hell of a competitive market.. for the G8 that can mutilate the competition, M5, C63 AMG, RS4, and the Upcoming Lexus IS-F.. Would you agree? :)

Agreed. In that case LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS9 LS!!!!!!

Never having had more than 240 hp in a recent ride 362hp would have been enough GXP for me. But what would be sweet for the GXP would be the new DI V8 that will follow the CTS's V6. Maybe they are further along on it than they let on. That would not only render the desired over 400 hp, but would also return a mpg figure that might not require a gas tax.

Well if Pontiac wants to truly succeed with this car then they need engines with power outputs to rival the competition... Instead of trailing the competition like they always have they need some serious muscle if they want this car to compete with the big dogs. Good enough HP not only to rival other cars but good enough to stay ahead until something different comes along... BMW spent alot of R & D into the new M3 V8 only to get shutdown by MB's already proven 6.3l V8.. Oops...

Audi RS6 is going to have 580HP out of it a twin turbo V10... 580HP.... Wow...

GM went all out on the new Z06 and it worked out really good... In fact it worked out soo good that Dodge had to quickly do something about it because the Viper was getting toast by the Vette... Now the new Viper will have 600HP stock while the new Z07/ZR1/ Blue Devil... will have 650+HP.. Sorry Dodge you lost again...

In all the G8 needs that engine(LS9), it will give something for people to look forward to when the car arrives...

and for a good price you get a hell of a bargain... Don't think of it as a Pontiac... Think of it as 6 years and 1 Billion in R & D, The most state of the art Aussie built car ever... High quality with a proven GM Motor for greater reliability. :) :patriot:

There is no chance in hell of the GXP getting the LS9 or LSA both will be a VERY low volume VERY expensive engine. LS9 or LSA in the GXP would price it will into the 50's I'm sure on engine alone, not to mention the driveline lol

I say...

6.2L AFM, 6 speed Auto and DI....

"Considering that the current all-aluminum 6.2L engine produces 403hp in the ’07 Cadillac Escalade, direction injection could lift output beyond 450hp. One engineer, who spoke with WardsAuto, revealed that output would be “well north” of the current engine’s power figure and torque would see a gain of around 10%. Fuel consumption is also expected to drop by up to 6%, he boasted.

Direct-injection technology works by spraying fuel directly into the combustion chamber at pressures of up to 1,750 psi (121bar). This results in a more efficient burn of the fuel but also leaves a harsh ticking sound on initial cold-starts, which is one of the reasons that kept GM from bringing it to market sooner. Either way, direct-injection combined with GM’s displacement-on-demand cylinder shutdown feature will definitely inject new life into its V8 range."

There is no chance in hell of the GXP getting the LS9 or LSA both will be a VERY low volume VERY expensive engine. LS9 or LSA in the GXP would price it will into the 50's I'm sure on engine alone, not to mention the driveline lol

We know it wont happen but we can always hope, lol.

I think they will just retune the engine, intake, add a performance exhaust, upgrade interior (with an available red trim like in the HSV models) with heavily bolstered seats, MAYBE HSV brakes, available 20" wheels.

If you look at the previous GP GXP it was 100 horses over the base model and 7k more, the G6 GXP is 100hp over the base and about 7k more. The G8 GT is already at the 100hp mark but only 3k more so i think they will use the other 4k and bump the hp just over what the srt at about 430 and the rest will be used on appearance. Which will make the price just under 34k which about 7k more than the base.

That thread is funny, its like they are suprised a GXP is coming LOL But yes LS3 is correct, its all HSV running gear for the most part.

I just hope they dont put a front fascia or a rear wing like the G6 GXP. They should just take the HSV parts and put a pontiac emblem on it.

There is no chance in hell of the GXP getting the LS9 or LSA both will be a VERY low volume VERY expensive engine. LS9 or LSA in the GXP would price it will into the 50's I'm sure on engine alone, not to mention the driveline lol


Well not necessarily, The LS9 is basically a LS3 with a blower and upgraded internals... So I don't think it would ever drive the cost of the car to over $50k... And it will not be low volume as the General is planning 7000 CTS-V's per year with this new motor... A reasonable $45k MSRP would still be more realistic with this type of motor... :)

Or it would be better to create one more model of the G8 with all the goodies and LS9 motor... GXP-R lol... Dreaming is fun...

After reading more stuff i'm think that the GXP will get something more than the LS3. If you really think about it, the performance numbers from the GT version and a LS3 GXP would be too close. Most people wouldn't spend the extra money exspecially with an aggressive aftermarket. GM has too make a statement. If they could do it and max out the price tag at 50k, I think they would have a winner.

You guys need to trust GTPprix. He knows what he is talking about. :secret:

Go Big or Go Home...


That should be GM's new motto.. ToneyTone is right.. the HP numbers would be too close... :)

362hp and 436hp are "close"?

You can bet your life it's going to get the LS3. The bigger question is will it be a rebadged HSV model or will it be the North American GT model with some visual tweaks.

I would guess the latter, probably due to cost and HSV's production capacity. But maybe GM will surprise us.

The Chrysler SRT-8 trio of cars have gone unchallenged for too long.

That thread is funny, its like they are suprised a GXP is coming LOL But yes LS3 is correct, its all HSV running gear for the most part.

Yea, I know. From everything I know, it's been the LS3 all along, with 430+ hp.

Well not necessarily, The LS9 is basically a LS3 with a blower and upgraded internals... So I don't think it would ever drive the cost of the car to over $50k... And it will not be low volume as the General is planning 7000 CTS-V's per year with this new motor... A reasonable $45k MSRP would still be more realistic with this type of motor... :)

Yea, but the problem is GM shoots itself in the foot enough already as it is by offering competing products. The CTS-V will have to offer a hotter engine than the G8 GXP.

You guys need to trust GTPprix. He knows what he is talking about. :secret:

Agreed. :thumbsup:

362hp and 436hp are "close"?

You can bet your life it's going to get the LS3. The bigger question is will it be a rebadged HSV model or will it be the North American GT model with some visual tweaks.

I would guess the latter, probably due to cost and HSV's production capacity. But maybe GM will surprise us.

The Chrysler SRT-8 trio of cars have gone unchallenged for too long.

I really hope it's a HSV model, but I think you're probably right on the latter. Oh well, as long as we get the upgraded brakes and engine, that will be fine. Of course, I'm still planning on a GT, so idgaf! :gr_jest:

362hp and 436hp are "close"?

You can bet your life it's going to get the LS3. The bigger question is will it be a rebadged HSV model or will it be the North American GT model with some visual tweaks.

I would guess the latter, probably due to cost and HSV's production capacity. But maybe GM will surprise us.

The Chrysler SRT-8 trio of cars have gone unchallenged for too long.

Exactly what i was thinking. 436hp is about 75% more than what the previous GXP models (G6 & GP) offered over the base. Its just enough to reign over the srt's as the most hp and cheapest. The LS3 will keep cost down while still holding the title, and if the comp comes with something bigger they can always throw in a bigger engine latter to keep the title. I just hope they use all the HSV styling.

362hp and 436hp are "close"?

You can bet your life it's going to get the LS3. The bigger question is will it be a rebadged HSV model or will it be the North American GT model with some visual tweaks.

I would guess the latter, probably due to cost and HSV's production capacity. But maybe GM will surprise us.

The Chrysler SRT-8 trio of cars have gone unchallenged for too long.


After a CAI, Exhaust and Tune you can be sure that those HP numbers will be close..

Don't forget that the CTS-V is a smaller and lighter.. it would always be faster than the G8...

I mean all people are looking for is everything that GM already makes... So it wouldn't kill them to throw everything into one car.. The Vauxhall VXR8 (Same as a HSV GTS)gets a supercharger option in the UK to bring it up to 540HP,

I know it a little bit of a stretch to get such a good motor in the G8 but it well definitely be the best chance for this car to succeed with the rest.. :) :thumbsup:

That supercharger comes at a cost of 10k.

:cry::cry::cry::cry:

How about HID's? Will the G8 get those too?

Don't forget that the CTS-V is a smaller and lighter.. it would always be faster than the G8...

:

Um.
The 2008 CTS ( V6, manual trans ) tested by C+D weighed in at:

4032

I expect that the CTS-v, with V8 of some sort & heavy duty brakes, etc. will weight more than a G8.

After a CAI, Exhaust and Tune you can be sure that those HP numbers will be close..

Not if you do the same to the LS3! :gr_jest:

Don't forget that the CTS-V is a smaller and lighter.. it would always be faster than the G8...

I mean all people are looking for is everything that GM already makes... So it wouldn't kill them to throw everything into one car.. The Vauxhall VXR8 (Same as a HSV GTS)gets a supercharger option in the UK to bring it up to 540HP,

I know it a little bit of a stretch to get such a good motor in the G8 but it well definitely be the best chance for this car to succeed with the rest.. :) :thumbsup:

It's a big stretch. Putting something that exclusive into the G8 GXP will do two things:

1) Dilute the exclusivity of that powerplant in high-end Corvettes and Cadillacs
2) Raise the price of the G8 GXP to levels that make affordabilty a problem for those interested in the vehicle. Having a G8 GT top out at around $35k and have the GXP starting at $42-45k, which is where it would start with the LS9, would kill it. Could you imagine forking out $50k for a G8 with a few options?

I doubt the average Joe performance sedan consumer can.

Don't forget that the CTS-V is a smaller and lighter.. it would always be faster than the G8...



Lighter by only 121 pounds. Official GM curb weight, CTS 3874 (auto) 3861(stick) G8 3995 (V8). 3885 (V6)

What drew my attention this was R&T's quick update test of teh CTS in 11/07 issue with an as tested weight way over 2 tons. So the theory to be tested is can approximately 60 hp overcome 121# ?. My guess is a qualified yes. Will a shorter wheelbase, arguably nimbler vehicle win in a slalom - could be, but it's gonna be darn close and fun to watch.

Why no CTS-V for 2008 yet, anybody asking that question other than R&T? Current (last year's) offering was 400hp LS2which we know is history. The LS3 is not such an exclusive engine when you count pickups and suvs. And certainly ready to go now. My money is on the new DI V8 under wraps and development to premiere in the CTS-V, and then the GXP. They will just as likely have to offer us the DI V6 down the road to recoup costs. Remember a little history, if you will, and if I get it right, Pontiac was responsible for first supercharging the 3800 - or at least it first appeared in the Bonnie and GP that way. With little fanfare and no thank you to the heirs of John Z's legacy Buicks and Chevy's laid claim to the same powerplant as their own.

Remember a little history, if you will, and if I get it right, Pontiac was responsible for first supercharging the 3800 - or at least it first appeared in the Bonnie and GP that way. .

I believe that the first application of the 3.8 V6 s/c was actually in the Buick Park Ave - called Ultra - in 1991-ish?

I believe that the first application of the 3.8 V6 s/c was actually in the Buick Park Ave - called Ultra - in 1991-ish?

The Ultra and the Olds 98 Touring Sedan go it as a 91.5 model, followed a few months later with the release of the SSEi and optioned up SSE. The GP didn't get the SC 3800 till 97.

How about HID's? Will the G8 get those too?

No HID's for the G8, thats usually a $6-800 option if its not std equip. Projectors are H7's so you can buy DS2 adapters and add an OEM HID kit from from a lexus, bmw, audi, etc, and have HID's for about $250 on ebay.

Damn, no HID's... :( What else will this car not have? lol

As for price - again look at the Charger SRT-8. GM is clearly matching (if not slightly undercutting) the Chrysler cars in the market so the G8 GXP will likely be priced within dollars of the SRT-8.

The GXP will probably have its own body mods different than the HSV - remember that GM had to modify the G8 to meet US bumper requirements/crash ratings.

I just can't help but think that with the LS3 the G8 would just be playing catch up for a while. Also with the LS9 you can have different power outputs. Like around 500hp in the G8, 600hp in the CTS-V and 650hp in the vette. The GXP model isn't ment too sell in large quantites so pricing it at 50k won't be a problem.

I just can't help but think that with the LS3 the G8 would just be playing catch up for a while. Also with the LS9 you can have different power outputs. Like around 500hp in the G8, 600hp in the CTS-V and 650hp in the vette. The GXP model isn't ment too sell in large quantites so pricing it at 50k won't be a problem.

I completely agree... The CTS-V is a compact sedan while the G8 is a full size sedan, two different platforms and two different classes... The CTS-V is rumored to around 525HP, So the G8 would be good at around 475hp being a heavier car it would not be faster than the V but I dont see why people think that the CTS-V must be faster... :p

I dont see why people think that the CTS-V must be faster... :p

Oh, I dunno... how about that whole "costs $15-20k more" thing?

The STS-V costs 15-20k more and its not much faster than the CTS-V. The CTS and G8 are 2 different classes anyways...

CTS - M3, RS4, C63

G8 - M5,E55-63, S6, RS6

:)

Either way i dont think i will be getting a GXP, the GT will already be pushing my budget.

I hate to say it Lichtronamo, but when you say GM is undercutting Chrysler's SRT-8 in the market, I have to say, "what market?" It's not like the 300C or 300C SRT-8 have been flying off the lots recently.....

As to comparing the G8 to the M5, E63, or RS6, I know the G8 is going to be a great car, but its not wise to compare it to those cars. The M5 for one has just 5 less horsepower than a Z06, true it does not have the torque but 383 ft-lbs is plenty to get off the line, then all you have to do is get into the high rpms. And the M5 is a coupe, not a sedan.

The E63 AMG has 507 hp and 465 ft-lbs of torque. Still beating the G8 GXP with an LS3.
The RS6 wagon has 580hp, but its being reported that actual engine dynos of Lamborgihni V10's with the same dual turbo setup are putting out close to 612 hp. Audi would under-represent their HP numbers to keep insurance lower and to make it a better sleeper car.

So its not wise to compare the GXP (which really, its going to get an LS3) to any of those. It's definitely a cheaper car with plenty of performance potential though. But without heavy modification like a supercharger or turbo, I doubt the G8 will beat any of the German performance sedans around the track. But thats not what the G8 is for anyway, no one at GM is claiming this is a "Bavarian Bulldozer." Its a performance sedan for the mass market.

And as much as I love the G8, I'd rather have the E63. It is more luxurious. There is just $50,000 more I don't have for it right now.:cry::banghead:

:bunny: <- And did anyone notice this icon? I cannot believe it, all those years ago I took that picture and now it's made its way to some cult status!

The GXP model isn't ment too sell in large quantites so pricing it at 50k won't be a problem.

I just can't see how anyone would pay $50k for a Pontiac. At that price point, cars are much more about status symbols than hp/tq numbers. Heck, even the M5 is more about "see I can afford the really expensive 5 series" than the "it has 500+hp." The V-10 is only there to respond to the "why on earth would you spend so much for a 5 series?"

However, the LS3 should be cheap to drop in, so $37k or so, the G8 GXP is an altogether different car. Make sure it has HIDs, LED tail lights, nav and the other cool gysmos, and then it becomes a very viable alternative to the C350s/A4s/335s of the world.

The G8 is all about letting the muscle car guy who has a family have some fun. It should never be a high-dollar mega performer. If you want that, get the CTS-V. At least then it might be close to feeling and image a $50k car should have.

G8 - M5,E55-63, S6, RS6
Sorry, but I can never imagine someone shopping list including that set of vehicles. Really, can you think of anyone in their right mind who would say, you know, I was just about to get an M5, but then I saw a G8 on my way home and got that instead.

Sorry, but I can never imagine someone shopping list including that set of vehicles. Really, can you think of anyone in their right mind who would say, you know, I was just about to get an M5, but then I saw a G8 on my way home and got that instead.

I'm one of those.

I could give two sh*ts less about any of those aformentioned cars. They're all foreign (yes, I know my GTO is foreign), overpriced, overly complicated, underpowered for their cost, statusville whore mobiles, that are only purchased by people to keep up with the Jones. But I guess the first point I would make is that I wouldn't have any of them on my shopping list in the first place.

I prefer clean, American V8 muscle, in a cheaper, comfortable, albeit well built package that is readily affordable to the common man, and easily modified.

I don't need HID's with articulated aiming, navigation systems, Bluetooth, voice activated gizmos, etc.

I'm one of those..... But I guess the first point I would make is that I wouldn't have any of them on my shopping list in the first place.

Sorry, maybe I misread that, you are one of those people who would cross-shop that list of vehicles, but, you wouldn't have the euro cars on your list? Huh?

Though, I think I get your point ($50k G8 = a possibility for you). I probably spoke too strongly and should have said "I don't think there is enough people to make a business case for a $50k Pontiac -- especially with the Cadillac brand".

However, I still can't see the G8 ever being cross-shopped with the uber-euros listed above.

Sorry, maybe I misread that, you are one of those people who would cross-shop that list of vehicles, but, you wouldn't have the euro cars on your list? Huh?

Though, I think I get your point ($50k G8 = a possibility for you). I probably spoke too strongly and should have said "I don't think there is enough people to make a business case for a $50k Pontiac -- especially with the Cadillac brand".

However, I still can't see the G8 ever being cross-shopped with the uber-euros listed above.

I can. Why not if you can save a buck.

:bunny: <- And did anyone notice this icon? I cannot believe it, all those years ago I took that picture and now it's made its way to some cult status!

You must not have been hanging around the LS1GTO.com board. Its legendary there.

:bunny:

Sorry, maybe I misread that, you are one of those people who would cross-shop that list of vehicles, but, you wouldn't have the euro cars on your list? Huh?

Though, I think I get your point ($50k G8 = a possibility for you). I probably spoke too strongly and should have said "I don't think there is enough people to make a business case for a $50k Pontiac -- especially with the Cadillac brand".

However, I still can't see the G8 ever being cross-shopped with the uber-euros listed above.

The CTS-V is moving upmarket. The days of a 50-55k CTS-V are over. Folks should expect the 09' CTS-V to be around 65k since it will have over 550hp in the LS9. The GXP should be sold as a limited edition model so GM isn't expecting to sell alot of them. 50k for a fully loaded G8 GXP with more than just some small cosmetic offerings will work. Also GM has already said that they want pontiac to be an affordable alternative to BMW. I say this could be a good start to things.

I hate to say it Lichtronamo, but when you say GM is undercutting Chrysler's SRT-8 in the market, I have to say, "what market?" It's not like the 300C or 300C SRT-8 have been flying off the lots recently.....

As to comparing the G8 to the M5, E63, or RS6, I know the G8 is going to be a great car, but its not wise to compare it to those cars. The M5 for one has just 5 less horsepower than a Z06, true it does not have the torque but 383 ft-lbs is plenty to get off the line, then all you have to do is get into the high rpms. And the M5 is a coupe, not a sedan.

The E63 AMG has 507 hp and 465 ft-lbs of torque. Still beating the G8 GXP with an LS3.
The RS6 wagon has 580hp, but its being reported that actual engine dynos of Lamborgihni V10's with the same dual turbo setup are putting out close to 612 hp. Audi would under-represent their HP numbers to keep insurance lower and to make it a better sleeper car.

So its not wise to compare the GXP (which really, its going to get an LS3) to any of those. It's definitely a cheaper car with plenty of performance potential though. But without heavy modification like a supercharger or turbo, I doubt the G8 will beat any of the German performance sedans around the track. But thats not what the G8 is for anyway, no one at GM is claiming this is a "Bavarian Bulldozer." Its a performance sedan for the mass market.

And as much as I love the G8, I'd rather have the E63. It is more luxurious. There is just $50,000 more I don't have for it right now.:cry::banghead:

:bunny: <- And did anyone notice this icon? I cannot believe it, all those years ago I took that picture and now it's made its way to some cult status!


Last time I checked the M5 is a sedan, always has been and always will be...

I don't know why you would think that it wouldn't be wise to compare the G8 with the rest of those cars.. It falls perfectly into their category of performance sedans..

And once again... IT'S NOT A PONTIAC!!!! It's ALL Holden, Solidly built, Great luxury and performance for the price that can't be beat by the rest...

Remember that GM is competing with the European market as to reffering the CTS-V as the M5 killer... And the STS-V was created to rival Mercedes' AMG sedans... So why can't the G8 do all that as well? Just because it carries the Pontiac name?

All I'm saying is that if this car really wants to beat the competition which is not limited to the Charger and Magnum SRT's, it should really have a better engine than N/A,
As far as the E63 being more luxurious... Ya I might see that but I think the G8's interior is far more modernized compared to mercedes and the mercedes interior doesnt even feel close to the price you pay for it...

It's always wise not to only rival your competition but be far ahead of them for a long time to succeed in the market..

The upcoming Audi RS5 is going to have a twin turbo V8 pumping out who knows how much HP... So do you really think that it would be wise to spend all this time and money in R & D only to be beat again? Not a wise investment if you ask me..

The CTS-V is moving upmarket. The days of a 50-55k CTS-V are over. Folks should expect the 09' CTS-V to be around 65k since it will have over 550hp in the LS9. The GXP should be sold as a limited edition model so GM isn't expecting to sell alot of them. 50k for a fully loaded G8 GXP with more than just some small cosmetic offerings will work. Also GM has already said that they want pontiac to be an affordable alternative to BMW. I say this could be a good start to things.


Take a look at a brand new fully loaded BMW 335i sedan , out the door it's $52k+, So no matter which way you look at it the G8 will always be affordable compared to other cars of the same class.. :-D

The Pontiac customer isn't going to cross shop a G8 GXP against the M5, E63 AMG, or RS6. Those German hotrods will end up costing more than twice as much as the GXP will. Pontiac didn't aim at the Boxster S, AMG SLK, or Z4M with the Solstice GXP; the Solstice may or may not be faster but the Porsche owner doesn't care that he paid too much for his roadster. Whether the owner justifies it as buying the heritage, the racing pedigree, or just to keep up with the Jones' Z4M is irrelevant, they didn't even look at the Pontiac. Similarly a person that is going to buy an E63 AMG isn't going to look at a Pontiac at all. What I see as a possibility is catching a few people who would like to buy "American" but haven't for quite some time for obvious reasons. Someone that may be looking at the lower models of the E-Class, 5 Series, or A6, those they could compete with on and price (a base 528i costs $44k). Try to catch the guy that trolls the car rags and sees the stat sheets where a G8 or GXP model can run with the foreign competition. A GXP or even a base G8 that has more power, the same weight, and possibly the same quality of interior, but undercuts those others by a several thousand dollars of their hard earned money is a much better possibility.

Read this article its pretty interesting..

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=40490&vf=15

The new CTS is a larger car by a long shot than the old one and heavier too. The next CTS-v will have a 500hp + LS3

The new CTS is a larger car by a long shot than the old one and heavier too. The next CTS-v will have a 500hp + LS3


Last I read it will have the LS9 just like the Z07 Vette will have.

Last I read it will have the LS9 just like the Z07 Vette will have.

CAR magazine also said in their review of the CTS that the CTS-V would be AWD.

"And if the rumoured 4WD 500bhp V8 CTS-V bellows into being, we'll have an intriguing cut-price M5 on our hands…"

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/first_drive.php?sid=1236&page=1

Okay, Like Whoa......
First, the cadillac and pontiac brands dont compete with each other at all, the general has made sure of that. match performance across the board and you will always see a 15-25k difference. case in point, goat=35k, cts-v=52k. corvette=45k(base), sts-v= 72k, see the difference. bottom line is your bank account dictates what you shop for, and rarely a person goes from 35k to 55k on a whim or for a nicer interior.

second-
if your wondering what the gxp g8 will be, look at the HSV commodore and put a pontiac badge on it, just like they did with the g8 gt and base models. the car is ninety percent the same, if not more. yes it will have a ls3, just like the HSV. and remember, we are talking about holden cars coming to the u.s., not the european or african models. you guys should really take some business econ courses if you want to understand this. it all equals money, and gm is not going to change the car, especially since it is already on the zeta platform.

third-
price will start at 39 or 40k, base for a gxp. once again, look at the other trends in the company, and it is all spelled out for you.

and HP? well that is anyones guess really, but lets look at the ls2, which gm ran in a few factory mod series races in a couple of different cars. racing version of the motor put out 735 or 702, depending on which car, with factory pieces under the hood. so dont say that it can or cant hit a HP mark from the assembly line. my guess is 430 to 460hp. once again, look at the company trends. old ls2 sold at 400hp in the V and goat. new V equals 500hp, new vette equals 600hp.(all from the ls3 block):bootyshake: so yes gator gxp will be at least that amount of hp(430 to 460), maybe more

CAR magazine also said in their review of the CTS that the CTS-V would be AWD.

"And if the rumoured 4WD 500bhp V8 CTS-V bellows into being, we'll have an intriguing cut-price M5 on our hands…"

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/first_drive.php?sid=1236&page=1

CAR magazine? really. when was the last time they got anything right about an "american" made car?

cts-v v6 might have the awd, but bobby has already said no dice on awd for the new v, at least not in 08 (09 model)

Part of HSV's marketing plan in Australia was to target the German manufacturers. I don't see why Pontiac couldn't do the same.
http://www.excelerate.com.au/downloads/XLR8V8/hsv/scoreboard_l.jpg

I recently picked up a 2008 C6 Z51 with the LS3 motor. All I can say is I"m digging this motor and it will be perfect for the new G8 GXP.

GM's got a winner both in the G8 and the LS3.

Great combo without a doubt.

Can't wait to see it hit the streets and rape the competition.

Just shooting the breeze

JB

Part of HSV's marketing plan in Australia was to target the German manufacturers. I don't see why Pontiac couldn't do the same.


Cause you could have an M5 BMW but if you put a Pontiac label on it in the US it won't bring in the same $. Period.

-mike

interesting to see what everyone believes and thinks about this car. i however see it as a great contender for the m5, e55 and such... im sorry but if im rolling down the street in my new g8 gxp, dropped and tinted like i want im going to feel pretty good about my car and myself sitting next to a m5. different strokes for different folks i guess. you would never catch me in a bmw. i worked for infiniti for many years and saw way to many problems with the bmw's, not to mention the hefty sticker!

chrish

interesting to see what everyone believes and thinks about this car. i however see it as a great contender for the m5, e55 and such... im sorry but if im rolling down the street in my new g8 gxp, dropped and tinted like i want im going to feel pretty good about my car and myself sitting next to a m5. different strokes for different folks i guess. you would never catch me in a bmw. i worked for infiniti for many years and saw way to many problems with the bmw's, not to mention the hefty sticker!

chrish

Werd. The way I see it, the biggest difference between a boosted G8 owner and an M5 owner is that rising gas prices only affect the M5 owner half as much.

I wonder if the GXP will be unveiled in an up-coming auto show. Maybe Chicago Auto Show Part Deux

I'm waiting... If it's ~37K, I'm all over it!

Every current GXP MSRP is ~$4,500-$5,200 over the GT MSRP that Pontiac currently has, if it is in that price range with a M6 and I can get GMS on it, I will buy one....

Every current GXP MSRP is ~$4,500-$5,200 over the GT MSRP that Pontiac currently has, if it is in that price range with a M6 and I can get GMS on it, I will buy one....

Just dug out the sticker for my 2004 Bonneville GXP. With every option available, including destination charge, $38,040.00 No M6 available, but otherwise loaded.:boink:

LOL- Some of you guys are real dreamers. Listen to the veterans from LS1GTO. We've heard all the rumors. IF the GXP is introduced (And that is still a big if) it will have the LS3. The LS9 is not going to happen for any number of reasons, including cost, CAFE, and competition with the CTS-V. NO ONE is going to buy a 45-50k Pontiac. People who buy BMWs, MB, or Audi are not looking at a Pontiac. Even Caddy has had to work very hard to get those people to look at them. The people who buy the German cars are doing it for reasons of Status, racing heritage, perceived engineering superiority. It's all about the snob factor. No one is going to look at a M5 or E55 along with a G8 GXP. Pontiac will be lucky to get the 330 crowd to look at a G8.

And for those who compare the CTS with the G8: GM doesnt want them competing. They have learned that lesson if nothing else. That's why there will be no Firebird. And those CTS weights are based on the V6, not the V8. The CTS is only putting down 263-300 hp. It needs to be a lot lighter. And the CTS-V still is a ways off. Lots of variables there as to final performance numbers.

There is also the whole AU$ vs US$ exchange rate to think about. If it gets much worse, the G8 won't last past 2011.

txbatman, interesting that you mentioned the exchange rate as I was thinking about that the other day. In a report on the new Saturn Astra, based off the Opel model of the same name, GM said that they would be losing money on every sale of the new Astra due to the weak dollar. The reason they were selling the Astra was to gauge interest. Sufficient interest, and GM would begin producing them profitably in the States. I imagine the same will go with the g8. If it does not sell well, the current exchange rate will kill it pretty fast. But if its a hit and buyers are lining up, I am sure GM will make the investments necessary to make it profitable, in other words, produce it here. I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Oh and I agree with you, I predict the G8 GXP will pack the LS3 lump as the LS9 would be WAY too expensive.

Dodge Charger SRT8/ Chrysler 300 SRT8: 6.1 litre 425 hp. Just under 40k
G8 GXP: 6.2 litre 425 hp. Just under 40k

I don't want the LS9! I cannot afford a 50k car. If its good enough, I can justify 40k.

I believe GM already has plans to move production of the G8 to the plant in Oshawa, Canada. Also the factory where the Camaro will be built. They are gauging interest on the Astra because small hatchbacks have been a tough sell in America, and if people don't want it they won't build them here. 4 door sedans don't need interest to be gauged, GM knows they sell, and are planning on it doing well because they are scrapping the Bonneville and Grand Prix for the G8.

I believe GM already has plans to move production of the G8 to the plant in Oshawa, Canada. Also the factory where the Camaro will be built. They are gauging interest on the Astra because small hatchbacks have been a tough sell in America, and if people don't want it they won't build them here. 4 door sedans don't need interest to be gauged, GM knows they sell, and are planning on it doing well because they are scrapping the Bonneville and Grand Prix for the G8.

The last news release I saw said those plans were scrapped. It probably doesn't help that the RWD Impala was put back on the shelf.

Chip

It does look like the CAFE problem has GM running scared. Until the GXP is announced, don't hold your breath.

Posh... I wanna see a 3.6 Twin Turbo under the hood. Something more sophisticated than a V8.

Posh... I wanna see a 3.6 Twin Turbo under the hood. Something more sophisticated than a V8.

if they did that i would not get one... too big a fan of big displacment motors. it would however, be unique as domestic auto makers have never done anything like this.

chrish

The last news release I saw said those plans were scrapped. It probably doesn't help that the RWD Impala was put back on the shelf.

Chip

Latest I saw was GM moving all rear drive car production, possibly even the Camaro to Michigan. This has the CAW threatening a strike!:The_Villagers:

if they did that i would not get one... too big a fan of big displacment motors. it would however, be unique as domestic auto makers have never done anything like this.

chrish

Yeah, I guess the Typhoon, Syclone, and Grand National were all figments of my imagination. :rolleyes:

I think he said TWIN turbo....

and you left the Trans-Am off your list! ;)

I think he said TWIN turbo....

and you left the Trans-Am off your list! ;)

He also said ANYTHING like this. ;)

True about the TA...good catch.

if they did that i would not get one... too big a fan of big displacment motors. it would however, be unique as domestic auto makers have never done anything like this.

chrish


Not yet anyway

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/25/ford-considering-twin-turbo-v6-for-future-mustangs-building-zr1/

I was at the Rolex 24 this weekend(BF owns GTO) we got to speak w/ one of the big guys at GM. The GXP is a go and will be in here in Nov. and it will have the LS3. Start planning now for all the mods!

I was at the Rolex 24 this weekend(BF owns GTO) we got to speak w/ one of the big guys at GM. The GXP is a go and will be in here in Nov. and it will have the LS3. Start planning now for all the mods!

Comment on the price at all?

Comment on the price at all?

He said high 30's-low 40's. I don't think final pricing is out yet.

Got to sit in the G8 GT and was quite impressed! I can't believe how big the trunks are on these cars after the tiny trunk in the GTO.

Yeah, I guess the Typhoon, Syclone, and Grand National were all figments of my imagination. :rolleyes:

im sorry but i do not see the typhoon and syclone as great engineering or sophisticated by any means. my brother bought a brand new typhoon back in 92 i believe, and yes, it was a bad ass ride, quick as hell and stunning looks... but it was rubish. constant problems... great engineering is something along the lines of the 6 cyliner nissan and toyota designs, not just a design that falls apart quickly. i know several guys with gn's and t types that have had similar problems. for car guys/girls like us working on them is just second nature, but for mainstream individuals this becomes a problem quick.

chrish

im sorry but i do not see the typhoon and syclone as great engineering or sophisticated by any means. my brother bought a brand new typhoon back in 92 i believe, and yes, it was a bad ass ride, quick as hell and stunning looks... but it was rubish. constant problems...

chrish

You should try to maintain one after it's 15 years old.
It's a pain in the a** but I still love it.:thumbsup:

He said high 30's-low 40's. I don't think final pricing is out yet.

I sure as hell hope not. Too rich for my blood. Wait a minute, I bought a GTO. :gr_jest:

You should try to maintain one after it's 15 years old.
It's a pain in the a** but I still love it.:thumbsup:

LOL! if i could find one these days i would love to pick one up, i loved my brothers. its just they are still pretty pricey, but i understand bc i wouldnt want to get rid of mine either w/o getting some good funds for it. oh by the way, nice ride :)

chrish

I sure as hell hope not. Too rich for my blood. Wait a minute, I bought a GTO. :gr_jest:

Are you trading your GTO for the G8?

I was at the Rolex 24 this weekend(BF owns GTO) we got to speak w/ one of the big guys at GM. The GXP is a go and will be in here in Nov. and it will have the LS3. Start planning now for all the mods!

The gentleman she is referring to is the Marketing Manager for Pontiac/GMC. A bunch of us Goat guys spent about two hours with him in the GM suite on Saturday night during the Rolex 24 @ Daytona.

We were enlightened about a greal deal of products coming online, so you guys stay tuned because there is plenty more good stuff in the works. The GXP will be here in November, and the Ute shortly thereafter. The Ute will also be offered in GXP guise....so for all you naysayers, I say just wait and see because you all will be surprised....

The gentleman she is referring to is the Marketing Manager for Pontiac/GMC. A bunch of us Goat guys spent about two hours with him in the GM suite on Saturday night during the Rolex 24 @ Daytona.

We were enlightened about a greal deal of products coming online, so you guys stay tuned because there is plenty more good stuff in the works. The GXP will be here in November, and the Ute shortly thereafter. The Ute will also be offered in GXP guise....so for all you naysayers, I say just wait and see because you all will be surprised....


Music to my ears!

Posh... I wanna see a 3.6 Twin Turbo under the hood. Something more sophisticated than a V8.
RAM!
*makes sign of the cross*! Have you been drinking out of you barometer again? :cry:

The gentleman she is referring to is the Marketing Manager for Pontiac/GMC. A bunch of us Goat guys spent about two hours with him in the GM suite on Saturday night during the Rolex 24 @ Daytona.

We were enlightened about a greal deal of products coming online, so you guys stay tuned because there is plenty more good stuff in the works. The GXP will be here in November, and the Ute shortly thereafter. The Ute will also be offered in GXP guise....so for all you naysayers, I say just wait and see because you all will be surprised....

:wiggle: Great news, this makes me very happy !!

Who would have thought that I would be able to Buy a HSV in the USA, I think I might just crack open a Coopers Pale Ale tonight and have a little celebration :drink:!!!

The gentleman she is referring to is the Marketing Manager for Pontiac/GMC. A bunch of us Goat guys spent about two hours with him in the GM suite on Saturday night during the Rolex 24 @ Daytona.

We were enlightened about a greal deal of products coming online, so you guys stay tuned because there is plenty more good stuff in the works. The GXP will be here in November, and the Ute shortly thereafter. The Ute will also be offered in GXP guise....so for all you naysayers, I say just wait and see because you all will be surprised....

I don't believe there will be a GXP ute - purely on the grounds that there won't be enough space on the tailgate for all the badges! G8, ST, GXP, 6.2l! (Though perhaps they won't use the tailgate off the HSV Maloo which has rather dinky looking fake taillight extensions so they have more "whitespace"..) :gr_jest:

Cant wait for the GXP !!!! :popcorn2:

RAM!
*makes sign of the cross*! Have you been drinking out of you barometer again? :cry:

425 HP is 425. That is what the 3.6 Twin Turbo is capable of producing. Definately a powerful engine.

I mean, I love V8s as much as anyone else. But what is the big deal with displacement? Sure, some guys feel like it makes their manhood bigger, but power is power, and I'd rather have Turbo and direct inject... to me, it'd feel WAY more special.

I wonder when and if they'll announce it.

425 HP is 425. That is what the 3.6 Twin Turbo is capable of producing. Definately a powerful engine.

I mean, I love V8s as much as anyone else. But what is the big deal with displacement? Sure, some guys feel like it makes their manhood bigger, but power is power, and I'd rather have Turbo and direct inject... to me, it'd feel WAY more special.

While I agree with what you're saying, I also say why make something more complicated then it needs to be.

A TT highly strung V6 is not going to get any better gas mileage than a V8 and it sure is not going to make a flatter (or fatter) torque curve.

Why would it feel WAY more special? I just don't see the reasoning.

I wonder when and if they'll announce it.

I'm looking for the Chicago auto show to see something. Especially if the GXP is to be released for November.

Chip

425 HP is 425.

Sorry pal, I don't agree with you.

Vehicle A
425 HP at 6000 RPM
250 ft/lbs TQ @ 1500 RPM

Vehicle B
425 HP at 6000 RPM
425 ft/lbs TQ @ 1500 RPM


You can have Vehicle A; I'll take Vehicle B. ;)

The gentleman she is referring to is the Marketing Manager for Pontiac/GMC. A bunch of us Goat guys spent about two hours with him in the GM suite on Saturday night during the Rolex 24 @ Daytona.

We were enlightened about a greal deal of products coming online, so you guys stay tuned because there is plenty more good stuff in the works. The GXP will be here in November, and the Ute shortly thereafter. The Ute will also be offered in GXP guise....so for all you naysayers, I say just wait and see because you all will be surprised....

IF the GXP will be here in November, means it will ship in October. When can we order? When will they tell us what it will have? When will they tell us how many banks will have to rob to buy it? Hope you got all this good info with all the time you spent with this guy, afterall, it sounds like he was pretty forthcoming!:bubbrubb:

IF the GXP will be here in November, means it will ship in October. When can we order? When will they tell us what it will have? When will they tell us how many banks will have to rob to buy it? Hope you got all this good info with all the time you spent with this guy, afterall, it sounds like he was pretty forthcoming!:bubbrubb:

We were told in not so many words that a loaded GXP would "probably" be low to mid 40's. Ordering has not been finalized. There will be some nice features that are over and above the GT besides just the engine (i.e. brakes, suspension, wheels, paint colors, etc.).

I don't believe there will be a GXP ute - purely on the grounds that there won't be enough space on the tailgate for all the badges! G8, ST, GXP, 6.2l! (Though perhaps they won't use the tailgate off the HSV Maloo which has rather dinky looking fake taillight extensions so they have more "whitespace"..) :gr_jest:

From what we were told there is some resistance to naming the Ute the G8 ST, and other names are being explored......Here is the quandary though...if they proceed with G8 ST, do they call the GT/GXP the G8 ST GT/GXP? Just call it the Maloo and be done with it....

425 HP is 425. That is what the 3.6 Twin Turbo is capable of producing. Definately a powerful engine.

I mean, I love V8s as much as anyone else. But what is the big deal with displacement? Sure, some guys feel like it makes their manhood bigger, but power is power, and I'd rather have Turbo and direct inject... to me, it'd feel WAY more special.

1) There's no replacement for displacement. Sure, you can do all sorts of things to get a ricer engine up to the level of a V8, but do that stuff to the V8 too and you've got yourself a lot more power. If you're aiming for a specific power output, then sure, a V6 can get there, but if you want as much as you can get.. don't sacrifice displacement. The name of the game is burning as much gas as possible in an appropriate fashion, so common sense says that the larger the area, the more gas you can use.

2) Big displacement with natural aspiration is more reliable in general than smaller displacement with forced aspiration.

3) Torque curves.

We were told in not so many words that a loaded GXP would "probably" be low to mid 40's. Ordering has not been finalized. There will be some nice features that are over and above the GT besides just the engine (i.e. brakes, suspension, wheels, paint colors, etc.).

Low to mid 40's? I'm out... :(

Low to mid 40's? I'm out... :(

Word. The GT loaded for $33k is an outstanding deal but $7-12k more for a bit of power and other relatively minor adjustments would drive me away in a hurry.

Low to mid 40's? I'm out... :(

No WAY, I would pay that for a G8 GXP.

Low to mid 40's? I'm out... :(

Me too, and if the GXP is the only trim offered with the 6M I will be PISSED!!!! :(

Because that will mean no G8 for me.......I will have a manual transmission in my next car. But I'm not paying low to mid 40's, no way in hell.

Really, let's say they don't do anything OTHER than add the LS3... it CAN'T cost that much more to drop an LS3 in it over the current engine...

Hell, even if they add better suspension and brakes.. I'm thinking 2-3K more tops!

Really, let's say they don't do anything OTHER than add the LS3... it CAN'T cost that much more to drop an LS3 in it over the current engine...

Hell, even if they add better suspension and brakes.. I'm thinking 2-3K more tops!

Anything is possible, but after talking to this guy I'm pretty sure he's in "the know". Now, if everyone will read my post again about pricing I said for a FULLY LOADED GXP would probably be low to mid 40's. I'd bet the GXP starts @ 38.9k.....time will tell.

I just want a manual. Do I have to get the GXP?

Ummm, take a deep breath everyone. :judge: The 6M will be available on GT trim, that was confirmed. Now exactly when it arrives is up for debate, but certainly by the 09 MY you will have it, I'd guess no later than November. You won't have to get the GXP to have a V8 & a stick.

Anything is possible, but after talking to this guy I'm pretty sure he's in "the know". Now, if everyone will read my post again about pricing I said for a FULLY LOADED GXP would probably be low to mid 40's. I'd bet the GXP starts @ 38.9k.....time will tell.

Starting at 38.9... I'm out. :( Sorry, adding brakes and an LS3 does not cost 6K...

1) There's no replacement for displacement. Sure, you can do all sorts of things to get a ricer engine up to the level of a V8, but do that stuff to the V8 too and you've got yourself a lot more power. If you're aiming for a specific power output, then sure, a V6 can get there, but if you want as much as you can get.. don't sacrifice displacement. The name of the game is burning as much gas as possible in an appropriate fashion, so common sense says that the larger the area, the more gas you can use.

2) Big displacement with natural aspiration is more reliable in general than smaller displacement with forced aspiration.

3) Torque curves.


I never said anything about rice. Right.... It was just a suggestion. But clearly it hit some kinda nerve here. Folks are acting like I was bashing the V8. I love V8s, especially the GM Smallblock.

Jeeze, rip the post out.

Sorry pal, I don't agree with you.

Vehicle A
425 HP at 6000 RPM
250 ft/lbs TQ @ 1500 RPM

Vehicle B
425 HP at 6000 RPM
425 ft/lbs TQ @ 1500 RPM


You can have Vehicle A; I'll take Vehicle B. ;)

That's fine. But don't call me pal, I'm not your pal.

Starting at 38.9... I'm out. :( Sorry, adding brakes and an LS3 does not cost 6K...

For me its a no brainer, personally I think it will be worth it,

The big Brembo brakes would cost me in the range of $3500-$4000 for the complete set up for me to add to the GT,

The 20" HSV would have cost me $4000

The seats will be Much better,

Better looking car all round,

From what we were told there is some resistance to naming the Ute the G8 ST, and other names are being explored......Here is the quandary though...if they proceed with G8 ST, do they call the GT/GXP the G8 ST GT/GXP? Just call it the Maloo and be done with it....

Sprint, although used by GMC, also has a long history as a Pontiac name. Original Firebird had a Sprint model (might have been HO OHC 6, but still in the mix)

If the price will be solidly in the $40's it appears they are attempting to upscale against the Europeans, even if it probably is still competetive with a Charger SRT.

I just want a manual. Do I have to get the GXP?

That's one rumor that won't be substantiated or dispelled until we know more details.

Vehicle A
425 HP at 6000 RPM
250 ft/lbs TQ @ 1500 RPM

Vehicle B
425 HP at 6000 RPM
425 ft/lbs TQ @ 1500 RPM


You can have Vehicle A; I'll take Vehicle B. ;)


x2!

chrish

Are you trading your GTO for the G8?

No. If I can get it worked out, the GTO will be sold to make room for the Ute.

We were enlightened about a greal deal of products coming online, so you guys stay tuned because there is plenty more good stuff in the works. The GXP will be here in November, and the Ute shortly thereafter. The Ute will also be offered in GXP guise....so for all you naysayers, I say just wait and see because you all will be surprised....

Thanks. Now I have to save up an even bigger down payment for a GXP Ute. :banghead:

I don't believe there will be a GXP ute - purely on the grounds that there won't be enough space on the tailgate for all the badges! G8, ST, GXP, 6.2l! (Though perhaps they won't use the tailgate off the HSV Maloo which has rather dinky looking fake taillight extensions so they have more "whitespace"..) :gr_jest:

The HSV Maloo tailgate is made of composite materials to be lighter. If I'm worried about it's strength, I'll replace it with a tailgate from a regular Ute.

IF the GXP will be here in November, means it will ship in October. When can we order? When will they tell us what it will have? When will they tell us how many banks we'll have to rob to buy it?

Location, location, location. Scout out a bank with a quick & uncluttered escape route. Use a car that can't be traced back to you. Wear gloves. No fingerprints. Shave your head. No DNA evidence. Wait, I shouldn't be telling my plan to everyone.

sccaGTO~And here I thought that idea was a one off! Could be we are gonna keep the FBI busy come the later part of this year?:secret:

sccaGTO~And here I thought that idea was a one off! Could be we are gonna keep the FBI busy come the later part of this year?:secret:

not if their "hard" cars are sold by Pontiac, imported from Austrailia, and move ~6.3qt of air per revolution

not if their "hard" cars are sold by Pontiac, imported from Austrailia, and move ~6.3qt of air per revolution

Fear not, FBI, as portrayed on TV relies on 100# heavier vehicles from Dodge. But Catch 22, if you have to "visit" the bank to get a GXP, what are you going to use to outrun them? No, not saying that something current cannot whump a Charger, its just that - remember Broderick Crawford's famous pose beside his slowerthanadodge Buick - yeah, they've got radios, lots and lots of radios...

sccaGTO~And here I thought that idea was a one off! Could be we are gonna keep the FBI busy come the later part of this year?:secret:

Apparently, Chieftain missed the part when I said "uncluttered escape route". If I need something to outrun a Charger, here it is: http://imageevent.com/sccagto/gtopics

You said what do I have to outrun a Charger. You didn't ask what I had to outrun a radio. :gr_jest:

If I need something to outrun a Charger, here it is: http://imageevent.com/sccagto/gtopics

Do you offer a delete option for the Hooters skan--girls?

Do you offer a delete option for the Hooters skan--girls?

Delete, delete????? That's the distraction so you can make a clean get away!:boink:

Do you offer a delete option for the Hooters skan--girls?

Yes. Just look at pictures 1-5. :gr_jest:

Yes. Just look at pictures 1-5. :gr_jest:


Your sig pic has me considering red.

The LS3 will never be in the G8 until the Corvette gets a different engine.

The LS3 will never be in the G8 until the Corvette gets a different engine.

That's a ridiculous statement.

The GTO and Trailblazer SS had the LS2 at the same time as the Vette. Why not the GXP and Vette sharing LS3? I don't think Corvette owners care, even a little. Unless they would think it was cool to have the same motor in both, their daily driver and weekend warrior.

Hmm.... The GXP may be the better option for me. The rumors of 72k for a loaded CTS-V are making me less interested in going that route.

The LS3 will never be in the G8 until the Corvette gets a different engine.

That's why I have an LS2 in my '06 Trailblazer SS, while at the same time the C6 has.....hmmm, what was it? Oh yeah, the LS2. :zzz:

and the Silverado SS, the GTO, the SSR, any more?

The LS3 will never be in the G8 until the Corvette gets a different engine.


HUH? Did you pull that statement out of your butt?

Mid 40's for for the GXP might have me thinking about another car... I guess we'll have to wait and see...:whine:

Mid 40's for for the GXP might have me thinking about another car... I guess we'll have to wait and see...:whine:

I'm really hoping that they continue the G8's ad campaign with the GXP and call it the "most powerful car under $40k!"

Would be nice if that thing comes in under $40k - would be a poor man's CTS-v.

What was the price differential when the changed engines in the GTO? I shouldn't think it would be too much more than that...

The price differential between the V6 and current V8 is only 2K!

Never having had more than 240 hp in a recent ride 362hp would have been enough GXP for me. But what would be sweet for the GXP would be the new DI V8 that will follow the CTS's V6. Maybe they are further along on it than they let on. That would not only render the desired over 400 hp, but would also return a mpg figure that might not require a gas tax.

WOW, after reading threads about this I wouldn't be surprised either. It would be a perfect intro for the engine.

Unfortunately, the probably will use it in a Cadillac and not a Pontiac. :(

Or they'll make another brilliant move and give it to a Chevy

WOW, after reading threads about this I wouldn't be surprised either. It would be a perfect intro for the engine.

GM has been testing their DI V8 using Gen IV technology. The smart money says that when GM gets ready to put it on the street, it will be called Gen V. But, they were using the 6.2L in an Escalade that was making over 450 hp. That would be just beautiful for a GXP. And, you can bet your ass that engine will show up in many HSVs. Also, according to Wards Auto (back in August '07), "The recent introduction of the ’08 Corvette’s 430-hp LS3 V-8, along with the release later this year of the ’08 Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid’s 6.0L V-8, represent the last editions of the Gen IV engine family, Stephens says".

Indeed it would make a great intro. But, sadly, they will likely use it to keep Tanks...er big SUVs alive.

I forgot. GM has a tendancy to NOT listen to it's buyers.

The LS3 will never be in the G8 until the Corvette gets a different engine.
:damnyou:

Now we know, LS3 indeed and I can hardly wait

The LS3 will never be in the G8 until the Corvette gets a different engine.

Wow where have you been almost everything uses the corvette LS engines ranging from (CTS-V 5.7L- 6.0L LS2) Chevy Trail Blazer SS (LS2) Pontiac GTO (5.7L- 6.0L LS1-LS2) Chevy SSR (LS2). Knowing GM it will get the LS3 after launch.

Man this sucks!!! :)

Waiting so long to actually see/touch a G8, and now, NOW they are tempting us with a GXP version... I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!! :)

Man this sucks!!! :)

Waiting so long to actually see/touch a G8, and now, NOW they are tempting us with a GXP version... I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!! :)

Ok, so go buy something else and that will leave one more G8 for the rest of us!:boink:

I think he was being facetious.

LOL- Some of you guys are real dreamers. Listen to the veterans from LS1GTO. We've heard all the rumors. IF the GXP is introduced (And that is still a big if) it will have the LS3. The LS9 is not going to happen for any number of reasons, including cost, CAFE, and competition with the CTS-V. NO ONE is going to buy a 45-50k Pontiac. People who buy BMWs, MB, or Audi are not looking at a Pontiac. Even Caddy has had to work very hard to get those people to look at them. The people who buy the German cars are doing it for reasons of Status, racing heritage, perceived engineering superiority. It's all about the snob factor. No one is going to look at a M5 or E55 along with a G8 GXP. Pontiac will be lucky to get the 330 crowd to look at a G8.

And for those who compare the CTS with the G8: GM doesnt want them competing. They have learned that lesson if nothing else. That's why there will be no Firebird. And those CTS weights are based on the V6, not the V8. The CTS is only putting down 263-300 hp. It needs to be a lot lighter. And the CTS-V still is a ways off. Lots of variables there as to final performance numbers.

There is also the whole AU$ vs US$ exchange rate to think about. If it gets much worse, the G8 won't last past 2011.

Originally Posted by achieftain View Post
Never having had more than 240 hp in a recent ride 362hp would have been enough GXP for me. But what would be sweet for the GXP would be the new DI V8 that will follow the CTS's V6. Maybe they are further along on it than they let on. That would not only render the desired over 400 hp, but would also return a mpg figure that might not require a gas tax.




I agree with most of this statement. The reason why the G8 GT appeals to me is because I think im getting a powerful engine, 4 doors, and nothing else competes with it in its price range.

If you bring in a GXP model at 37-38 you might get me to CONSIDER IT but i would also look at other cars that offer similar performance and quality.

I have no problem getting into a bmw or MB in fact MB has a great C350 sport and it is reasonably priced last i saw it. Not as much HP but you know what anything over 300 hp will move you fast enough to pass on the highways. How often will i even use all that power anyhow???

Remember people its a PONTIAC!!!!! they have a image to clean up before they demand prices upward of 40k

IMO Pontiac is a tarnished image thats been neglected regardless of quality, I feel bad to say that to the faithful followers.

I agree with most of this statement. The reason why the G8 GT appeals to me is because I think im getting a powerful engine, 4 doors, and nothing else competes with it in its price range.

If you bring in a GXP model at 37-38 you might get me to CONSIDER IT but i would also look at other cars that offer similar performance and quality.

I have no problem getting into a bmw or MB in fact MB has a great C350 sport and it is reasonably priced last i saw it. Not as much HP but you know what anything over 300 hp will move you fast enough to pass on the highways. How often will i even use all that power anyhow???

Remember people its a PONTIAC!!!!! they have a image to clean up before they demand prices upward of 40k

IMO Pontiac is a tarnished image thats been neglected regardless of quality, I feel bad to say that to the faithful followers.

BMW is quality? Just about everyone that I've known that has owned a BMW has had 'quality' problems. That's why most unload them when the warrenty runs out.

BMW is quality? Just about everyone that I've known that has owned a BMW has had 'quality' problems. That's why most unload them when the warrenty runs out.

Everyone you know huh?

Face it, Pontiac is not a name that is seen as quality. That's just the way it is. The Grand dAMnit was a huge burden on them. As well as almost every one of their other cars. Even my brand new G6 had 3 faulty steering parts off the lot, as well as a water leak. Even Hyundai, OF ALL MAKERS, is considered more reliable than Pontiac.

As big of a Pontiac fan that I am, the facts are unavoidable. Pontiac has a long way to go in the realm of quality.

That said, I am anticipating that I'll buy a GXP in the next model year, if that is indeed when it is coming out. And I do quite enjoy my G6, which in all fairness, has not had any pressing issues other than the steering rack, shaft, and [other part] issues that were fixed, and have not returned.

With GM attempting to step it up in the quality department, Pontiac could be considered as a reliable brand. Some products could fall outside that range (some better, some worse). I agree that paying $40K for a Pontiac had better had better be on the "better than average" category. If someone buys a Vibe, G5, or base model G6, I'd say a quirk or 2 might be expected. Buy a MB C-class or BMW 3-series for $30K+, and any small problem would get me bent out of shape. What's worse (that some people forget) is when those "prestigious" German cars have a mechanical failure, it will never be cheap (less than $1K). I'll take an American car that requires an occasional repair for less money than a Japanese or European car than will break the bank for it's first major repair.

I don't expect quirks at all. I expect that my product doesn't have them immediately after I buy it, not at 35k, not at 25k. So Pontiac will have to do well with the G8, and I expect that they will, or I won't be buying another one.

From what I hear about the cars from Oz, I shouldn't have any big issues. I really really hope that it pans out. :)

Ask most GTO owners, & they will have glowing reports of quality on Aussie cars. I don't expect the G8 to be any less reliable.

Even Hyundai, OF ALL MAKERS, is considered more reliable than Pontiac.

As big of a Pontiac fan that I am, the facts are unavoidable. Pontiac has a long way to go in the realm of quality.
Good thing it's not a Pontiac. It's a Holden. Pontiac is not even in the same league.

I owned a 2004 GTO for three years, and in that time my only warranty claims were a noisy power steering pump (still worked fine, just too noisy for my taste) and a couple of power door lock modules that failed. That's it.

BMW is quality? Just about everyone that I've known that has owned a BMW has had 'quality' problems. That's why most unload them when the warrenty runs out.

People who tend to buy BMW's do not keep there cars longer than 3 years on average. Therefore any repair bills would not effect them. They would be covered under warranty. Plus it would be unfair for me to say they do not have issues as EVERY car has issues. Unless of course you drive a 96 jeep cherokee thats only major problem was a tune up and relay go out.

Where do all the used BMW's pile up?

Ask most GTO owners, & they will have glowing reports of quality on Aussie cars. I don't expect the G8 to be any less reliable.

I know, that's why earlier I said I don't anticipate any real problems.

**Censored**

:-p boy when I get on a rant.... (Deleted)

Where do all the used BMW's pile up?

On ebay

GM is going to list all their certified used cars on ebay too. So I wouldn't be to quick to use it against BMW LOL. Might end up eating your own words hehehe.

Might end up eating your own words hehehe.

Wont be the first nor the last!

People who tend to buy BMW's do not keep there cars longer than 3 years on average. Therefore any repair bills would not effect them. They would be covered under warranty. Plus it would be unfair for me to say they do not have issues as EVERY car has issues. Unless of course you drive a 96 jeep cherokee thats only major problem was a tune up and relay go out.

I drove an E36 M3 to 130,000 miles. During that time I did not experience any problems with the engine, transmission, body integrity, etc. All my problems with the car could be summed up with one word: electrical. Specifically, the power windows would malfunction. From my conversations with other BMW owners this seems to be a common complaint. Indeed, the results of the consumer reports reliability survey on the 3 series support my observation.

Today, I drive an Impreza WRX. I'm past 90,000 miles with no problems. *fingers crossed*

The other night my son and I were cruising down I-85, I could see a car about 1/4 mile ahead of us with 1 tail light burning way brighter than the other. I bet him $5 it was 1 of 3 makes of cars. Mecedes,BMW or Audi. It was a Mercedes. I don't know if this an electrical issue or not, but I have noticed it more on German makes than any other.

I drove an E36 M3 to 130,000 miles. During that time I did not experience any problems with the engine, transmission, body integrity, etc. All my problems with the car could be summed up with one word: electrical. Specifically, the power windows would malfunction. From my conversations with other BMW owners this seems to be a common complaint. Indeed, the results of the consumer reports reliability survey on the 3 series support my observation.

Today, I drive an Impreza WRX. I'm past 90,000 miles with no problems. *fingers crossed*

Trust me as a Ex BMW / Porsche / Mercedes Benz / SAAB Tech, (yeah i know i jump ship a few times).

You were very lucky with your M3, I've seen **** that would blow you guys away, I worked on european Cars all of my Life Until I got into the Oil Patch 8 years ago and Lets just say BMW's are not as good as people think, but then again, either are the rest of them.

The other night my son and I were cruising down I-85, I could see a car about 1/4 mile ahead of us with 1 tail light burning way brighter than the other. I bet him $5 it was 1 of 3 makes of cars. Mecedes,BMW or Audi. It was a Mercedes. I don't know if this an electrical issue or not, but I have noticed it more on German makes than any other.

I believe that's because people use cheap bulbs or can't find the exact manufactures bulb. German cars require German parts. which ship from where, you guessed it, Germany, and most of us won't wait for that crap.

Why are we not talking about the GXP?

Good thing it's not a Pontiac. It's a Holden. Pontiac is not even in the same league.

I owned a 2004 GTO for three years, and in that time my only warranty claims were a noisy power steering pump (still worked fine, just too noisy for my taste) and a couple of power door lock modules that failed. That's it.

It's as pontiac as anything else GM has. The cars are what GM sells them as. They are manufactured by GM and marketed under the divisions.

Why are we not talking about the GXP?

Because GM doesn't want GTs & V6s sitting on lots while people wait for GXPs. :gr_jest:

Because GM doesn't want GTs & V6s sitting on lots while people wait for GXPs. :gr_jest:

But wouldn't it be nice to know what it will have and how much they are gonna want for it? They might get more GT sales just by publishing that much data!:boink:

Yeah, but it's like playing poker. You want to bluff the weak people, & draw in the high rollers. Maybe they want the impatient power junkies to jump for the first V8 models early.

Ok, but I thought all the power junkies were involved with sites like this one, planning out their future moves!

Ok, but I thought all the power junkies were involved with sites like this one, planning out their future moves!

Not all of the power junkies are here or on other forums. They enjoy being lemmings & only accept GM's announcements as truth.

Remember a lot of people got "burned" puchasing '04 GTO's only to have the LS2 in the '05's. Pissed a lot of people off. On the other hand, a lot of GTO's sat on the lot in the last 6 months of 2004 because the LS2's were coming out. I remember wondering if the extra 50hp was worth waiting/paying for, deciding it wasn't, buying an '04 and then turning around in summer 06 and getting the LS2 when they had 0% financing.

Remember a lot of people got "burned" puchasing '04 GTO's only to have the LS2 in the '05's. Pissed a lot of people off. On the other hand, a lot of GTO's sat on the lot in the last 6 months of 2004 because the LS2's were coming out. I remember wondering if the extra 50hp was worth waiting/paying for, deciding it wasn't, buying an '04 and then turning around in summer 06 and getting the LS2 when they had 0% financing.

Exactly! People who remember the GTO launch will understand exactly what you are saying. I think a lot of us will wait until 2009 info(GXP, Manual) and pricing are confimed and then be able to make an informed decision about which model to buy based on incentives at the time. That is what I did with my GTO and apparently you did the same.

Jason
2004 GTO
IBM/Black A4

Then again, when I bought my '04 Bonnie GXP, in '04, they had started the employee discounts for everyone and ended up saving over $6K over MSRP! Ya never know what will happen as the economy slows and money gets cheaper?!?!

From reading this thread I'm happy to hear that their will be a GXP G8.

I'm a GM enthusiast first and foremost but I currently drive a Charger SRT8. Why? Because GM had no performance V8 RWD sedan other than Cadillac. My former driver was a 05 GTO and yes I too waited for the LS2 version.

Late last year while I was in Australia I got a chance to sit in and see Holdens Commodore and HSV models. I was highly impress with the HSV models in both performance and comfort. It would be a no brainer for me get back into a Pontiac if GM actually brings this car to the states.

As far as price well I paid nearly $44K OTD for a fully loaded SRT8. NAV, rear DVD player etc... plus the rush of 425hp on tap really push me into buying it. If Pontiac can get a fully loaded GXP G8 in the same ball park as Chryslers SRT line in both performance and creature comforts for a few thousand less than it'll clearly compete in that car market segment. Anything price over that will surely hurt its sales.

From reading this thread I'm happy to hear that their will be a GXP G8.

I'm a GM enthusiast first and foremost but I currently drive a Charger SRT8. Why? Because GM had no performance V8 RWD sedan other than Cadillac. My former driver was a 05 GTO and yes I too waited for the LS2 version.

Late last year while I was in Australia I got a chance to sit in and see Holdens Commodore and HSV models. I was highly impress with the HSV models in both performance and comfort. It would be a no brainer for me get back into a Pontiac if GM actually brings this car to the states.

As far as price well I paid nearly $44K OTD for a fully loaded SRT8. NAV, rear DVD player etc... plus the rush of 425hp on tap really push me into buying it. If Pontiac can get a fully loaded GXP G8 in the same ball park as Chryslers SRT line in both performance and creature comforts for a few thousand less than it'll clearly compete in that car market segment. Anything price over that will surely hurt its sales.

Dont count on the NAV, and you sure wont be able to get a rear DVD player.(That seems to be a uniquely americanism, using video to baby-sit, in the car) But it will definitely come in under 40k loaded.

Dont count on the NAV, and you sure wont be able to get a rear DVD player.(That seems to be a uniquely americanism, using video to baby-sit, in the car) But it will definitely come in under 40k loaded.

Actually, rear DVD is available on the Commodore and is supposed to be a dealer-installed option for MY2009 on the G8. Alas, Nav appears to be a lost cause for the forseeable future.

Chip

I plan on putting an aftermarket gps/dvd deck in. Looks like we won't get a factory version in 09...

Actually, rear DVD is available on the Commodore and is supposed to be a dealer-installed option for MY2009 on the G8. Alas, Nav appears to be a lost cause for the forseeable future.

Chip


???

i could have sworn that they told me that nav is included in one of the packages.

http://www.club3g.com/forum/imagehosting/16447c5795f5952e.jpg

This needs to be the GXP:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/holden-commodore-hsv-w427.html

7.0 liter Z06 powered Commodore HSV! I could live with a 427 CI G8. I believe I'd pay $40k-$50k for that. It was the original CTS-V formula: Z06 engine + 4 door sedan with sticky tires and handling enhancements=win win win in SCCA.

Oh wait - nevermind. I forgot they'd NEVER put the Corvette engine in here - maybe he meant the base 'vette engine LOL.

The LS3 is a corvette engine.......

???

i could have sworn that they told me that nav is included in one of the packages.

http://www.club3g.com/forum/imagehosting/16447c5795f5952e.jpg

I wish it would be. You have connections that I don't. Have them verify what type of Nav is being offered. Turn-by-turn thru Onstar is being offered on even 2008 models (you probably know this), but obviously it is not the type of Nav that all of us are looking for. I will be interested in what you learn.

Chip

This needs to be the GXP:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/holden-commodore-hsv-w427.html

7.0 liter Z06 powered Commodore HSV! I could live with a 427 CI G8. I believe I'd pay $40k-$50k for that. It was the original CTS-V formula: Z06 engine + 4 door sedan with sticky tires and handling enhancements=win win win in SCCA.

Oh wait - nevermind. I forgot they'd NEVER put the Corvette engine in here - maybe he meant the base 'vette engine LOL.


No... THIS needs to be the GXP... http://www.hsvforum.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=3529

No... THIS needs to be the GXP... http://www.hsvforum.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=3529

Good god, that's one awesome HSV!

And I thought the 427 HSV version was nice. The only thing that looks hidious is that see through clear bonnet.

I seriously doubt that the GXP is going to be over 40k. The reason I say that is once you go north of the 40k price point, expectations about fit/finish/interior go way up.

For north of 40k, people will expect an interior that is not hard plastic and crappy ergonomics (sorry GM fans but many of their cars have fallen in this category).

I paid ~45k for my 2005 Acura RL and though it doesn't roar down the road or corner like the G8 will, it has all the electronics in spades and great fit/finish.

I really want to do a G8 GXP but will thoroughly test drive it and look to see that GM is finally getting the quality and interior design issues down. They've taken a beating for 20 years now and hopefully will finally get their act together.

Pontiac is a damaged brand given the Grand Am etc fiascos and GM has some tough decisions to make about whether to scrap Pontiac or Buick. To keep both, they have to get their act together.

I really want to do a G8 GXP but will thoroughly test drive it and look to see that GM is finally getting the quality and interior design issues down. They've taken a beating for 20 years now and hopefully will finally get their act together.

You wont like it. You bring up too many misconceptions and Consumer Guide pre-judgements to take it seriously. But thanks anyway!:thumbsup:

As much as I would like, the GXP won't be equipped with the LS7. If they did, the cost of the car would be over 45k IMO and that would eliminate of lot of buys who can't afford to spend that kinda cash on a car. Plus as somebody as mentioned before, once you get into that ballpark of money, people expect a lot better interior and stuff.

You wont like it. You bring up too many misconceptions and Consumer Guide pre-judgements to take it seriously. But thanks anyway!:thumbsup:

BBBBGXP Dude: I haven't read Consumer Guide(s) about Pontiac. I've driven Pontiacs owned by friends and relatives...I've test driven Pontiacs over the years as I was buying new cars etc. I've compared Pontiac over the years in fit/finish and design and it came up lacking. You can always disregard my opinion but given Pontiac's struggles over the years centered on these issues, I don't think I'm alone in that opinion.

If you are serious in thinking that Pontiac has been right on as a company in its design work, manufacturing and marketing over the last couple of decades.....I'd simply point to the sales numbers.

If I didn't want to root for an American car company making a comeback, I'd never have registered for this forum nor gone to my local dealership to inquire about the car. At least they had a brochure available.

As I said, I want to buy a car stamped with an American car company's logo. However, I don't like the idea of giving up a ton in terms of quality and design in the bargain. Didn't seem that unreasonable to me when I decided to look into the G8.

Just two questions Sonoma, how many Pontiacs have you ever owned, and how many domestic manufacturers vehicles have you ever owned? Oh, and I'm not your DUDE, I reserve that for my wife, thanks anyway:gr_jest:.

Just two questions Sonoma, how many Pontiacs have you ever owned, and how many domestic manufacturers vehicles have you ever owned? Oh, and I'm not your DUDE, I reserve that for my wife, thanks anyway:gr_jest:.

1. None. I've spent lots of time driving Pontiacs belonging to friends and family as I've said. One for a number of weeks. As stated above, I've not wanted to own one given the issues that I mentioned before.

2. Four. All were in my teens and early 20's. I switched to imports given the quality issues I saw with those cars and others friends/family have owned.

My apologies to the wife about the Dude reference.

I don't think its necessary to own a car to draw certain conclusions. I could see the repair bills of those cars without owning them. I could see the design issues by just driving them. Again, ownership isn't necessary.

I understand that some will back Pontiac to the hilt no matter what and that's cool. I'd rather see Pontiac and the other domestics get their collective asses in gear before they all go out of business. The amount of money they've lost isn't sustainable. I'm not a fanboi of one brand or another honestly. I will test drive the GT or GXP and buy one if the quality is good.

I'd rather my 40k went to Detroit than Munich or Tokyo, global manufacturing practices notwithstanding.

I'd rather my 40k went to Detroit than Munich or Tokyo, global manufacturing practices notwithstanding.

That's the theory I subscribe to as well.

I don't think its necessary to own a car to draw certain conclusions. I could see the repair bills of those cars without owning them. I could see the design issues by just driving them. Again, ownership isn't necessary.

The reason I asked the question, as a young man I was locked into imported cars for what I thought were the same reasons. I too had had domestics early in life, then switched to imports under the false assumption that the quality was better. The realization that I was not comparing apples to apples made me switch back to domestics. I realized that a $45K import should be compared to a $45K domestic of the same class/size; i.e. compact to compact, mid-size to mid-size. Your TL thus would be compared to say a CTS, approximate same size and price point. Now if you want to step down from your TL/CTS price range, and move up to the G8/BMW5 size, then the G8 is a value leader by all comparisons. So when you go to look at it and test drive it, just remember its a $33K car and judge it accordingly. Just don't ask it to be something it isn't and you won't be disappointed!:oldfogey:

The reason I asked the question, as a young man I was locked into imported cars for what I thought were the same reasons. I too had had domestics early in life, then switched to imports under the false assumption that the quality was better.

From the mid 70's through most of the 80's, foreign quality (read: Japanese) was better.

Yea the RL's competition is supposedly the 5 series, the CTS, Mercedes 300's etc. The G8 would be bigger. I agree that price wise, its a huge value. I'm hoping that it fits the bill and also hoping that it will do a decent job in holding its value.

I also agree with Sandog's post, the Japanese quality was better in that time period.

Any of us who own/owned a pontiac, will tell you the quality isn't top-notch. But the performance and "excitement" from driving one, outweighs the negatives. If you take care of any car, it will take car of you (for the most part).

Some facts. All car brands get better over time. The lowest quality cars made today have far fewer defects than the best made 10 years ago. Quality is a moving target.

Virtually all new models are significantly better than the models they replaced. So the newer a car is, the more likely it will be top quality.

The domestic brands have closed the gap on quality significantly. GM has been a leader in this. Buick tied Lexus for #1 in JD Power rankings with Cadillac right behind. The riskiest cars for quality these days are Euro brands like VW.

At the current levels of quality, the rankings are starting to become statistically insignificant. Car buyers would be better served by JD Power grouping all cars into say 5 categories. All cars in the each category would be statistically insignificantly different from each other.

Another fact. Most people who buy imports are operating on quality impressions from 30-40 years ago. Those impressions are meaningless. If you haven't owned a domestic car whose age begins with a 2, your impressions are out of date.

Basically for recent model US cars, quality is there. It is no longer an issue in reality as GM's letest cars fare as well as Toyota's

G8>550i has a good point. The quality ratings have improved. Part of what Pontiac is dealing with is a perception issue (along with GM in general). Folks who were driven away years ago by shoddy quality etc are slow to take a look at new GM wares if not given a good reason to do so.

Enter the G8....the body design alone caused me to look up just where the hell the local Pontiac dealership was located...

Part of what Pontiac is dealing with is a perception issue (along with GM in general). Folks who were driven away years ago by shoddy quality etc are slow to take a look at new GM wares if not given a good reason to do so.

But, one thing GM can't do much about; pushy salesmen. At least Pontiac is big enough that there are several dealerships within an hour drive for most people. They can see the car they want, then shop for the dealer giving them the best price.

I seriously doubt that the GXP is going to be over 40k. The reason I say that is once you go north of the 40k price point, expectations about fit/finish/interior go way up.

For north of 40k, people will expect an interior that is not hard plastic and crappy ergonomics (sorry GM fans but many of their cars have fallen in this category).

I paid ~45k for my 2005 Acura RL and though it doesn't roar down the road or corner like the G8 will, it has all the electronics in spades and great fit/finish.

I really want to do a G8 GXP but will thoroughly test drive it and look to see that GM is finally getting the quality and interior design issues down. They've taken a beating for 20 years now and hopefully will finally get their act together.

Pontiac is a damaged brand given the Grand Am etc fiascos and GM has some tough decisions to make about whether to scrap Pontiac or Buick. To keep both, they have to get their act together.

Really???? I guess you've never heard of the Dodge Charger SRT8

From the mid 70's through most of the 80's, foreign quality (read: Japanese) was better.

At what price range are you speaking? Reason I ask, I had a '82 Datsun/Nissan B210 wagon (at the early stages of my family days) that I bought new in Port Angeles, WA and drove to Buffalo, NY. After only two (2) years and 12K on the ODO it had numerous rust spots on the finish, and yes, it got very good maintenance, including car washes in the winter months. Don't remember any of my neighbors domestic cars having that problem. Oh, and the '85 Pontiac Grand Am I traded it for went out to Long Island, NY for two years then across country and to Hawaii for 3 years, back to Washington state (where I traded it in for another Pontiac in 1993) all without a speck of rust on the finish and over 130K on the ODO. So if you can afford it, you probably could find a real good quality import in the '70s and '80s, but not necessarily one the average income joe could/would buy.:angel:

Really???? I guess you've never heard of the Dodge Charger SRT8

I certainly have. Not only is it a friggin ugly design but I have heard of quality issues.

North of 40k generally is Caddy, BMW, Infinity, Lexus etc. Some of those have issues...many do not and have some nice features.

Don't forget most of your full size/full optioned pickups and SUVs. For a lot of them, $40k is just a number before $50K!:sneaky:

Fact is (not counting the current recall of appr 100% of CTS and Sol/Sky for diffs) Toyota recalled more cars in 2006 than they sold. Sure they recalled for stupid stuff, like floormats not staying put, sheesh, driver error if floormat interferes with accel pedal , but still, "quality" of foreign brands is just a perception - hey wait a minute, the G8 is a foreign car so it certainly ought to outshine any domestic on that merit alone. hahaha:eek2:

People like you make me want to stab myself in the eye
Japaneese cars OHHHH THEY HAVE SOOOOOO MUCH ELECTRONICS BECUASE THATS WHAT MAKES THEM COOL I READ IT IN A MAGAZINE NOBODY LIKES AMERICAN CARS OH I HAD TO LOOK AT A MAP TO FIND THE PONTIAC DEALER BECAUSE IM SO STUCK UP AND SNOBBY TYPICAL HOYTIE TOYTIE R- TARD !!!

http://www.earthcultureroots.com/media/STICKERSALE/0100s/172.gif
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/67ec09a8-98fd-45ce-99bf-989101387428.htm

Have fun with that 50k 14.7 second Acura TL with no real MODS available
My lawn mower is faster than that AND IT HAS A RADIO !!!!
Thats all

It's an RL but I understand the sentiment. I don't exactly feel shame about not knowing where the dealership is located...there's more to life than cars, even GM ones....

Not sure where the Toyota reference came from either, I didn't mention them. Toyota's quality has slipped as they've tried to be the end-all-be-all maker of cars. They are rightly paying the price for it.

It might just be me but folks are more likely to MOD a cheaper car (sub 30k) than a 40 or 50k car. Folks in that price range buy the car for what it has.

There looks like some fun possibilities for MOD'ing the G8. I missed that whole aspect of life when I was a teen/20 something...maybe I missed out and need to make up a mid-life crisis to spend some extra coin on them. :bubbrubb:

Sonoma if you wait for the G8 GXP you'll have plenty of horsepower without any mods. The best of both worlds, lots of HP, no mods! Just sit and enjoy driving a domestic, sort of, muscle sedan!:boink:

Sonoma if you wait for the G8 GXP you'll have plenty of horsepower without any mods. The best of both worlds, lots of HP, no mods! Just sit and enjoy driving a domestic, sort of, muscle sedan!:boink:


I'm liking that analysis :yumyum:

With an ls3 and rwd, it's hard not to call the gxp a muscle car. Let the responses begin...

overheard respones
its a:

4-door GTO
4-door Corvette

M5 killer

Didn't some "muscle cars" only put out like 270hp? Looking at today's more and more eco-friendly cars, I'd say 300hp is enough to consider it a modern muscle car.

overheard respones
its a:

4-door GTO
4-door Corvette

M5 killer

And 18 months ago, everyone was bitching about the fact that the Charger could not be a muscle car with 4 doors.

And would a El Camino be considered a "muscle car"?

Didn't some "muscle cars" only put out like 270hp? Looking at today's more and more eco-friendly cars, I'd say 300hp is enough to consider it a modern muscle car.

I wouldnt use that as a baseline for a muscle car. There are a lot of 6's out there over 300hp. It's gotta have a V8 for starters. And a back seat, but not a hatchback. I'm still on the fence about 4 doors.

I must say I subscribe to the author's opinion, but I think we can call the gxp a new era muscle car. As 4 doors on high hp cars have become more popular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_car

what i would define a muscle car is
coupe, v-8, rwd,

An aussie muscle car usually is either a Ford or Holden. In previous years it could have been a 6 cylinder (Holden Torana GTR XU1 or Chrysler Charger E49) but more often than not it was and still is a V8. However, because we have never had a large population most aussie muscle cars have had 4 doors........it's not really viable to be making coupes these days. So, to me a muscle car is a race bred factory version of a road going car...wilder colours, spoilers, wheels, perfomance suspension and drivetrain etc...regardless of how many doors it has.
These are some examples of aussie muscle cars from the 70's ( showing my age here but they now command big $$$)
http://www.aussiecoupes.com/

what i would define a muscle car is
coupe, v-8, rwd,

Exactly!

A muscle car is just like it sounds. It doesn't technically have to be a coupe. It just has to have MUSCLE. ;)

Excellent point Ramses. Anything with enough power to slap most the competition silly is muscle in my book.

Excellent point Ramses. Anything with enough power to slap most the competition silly is muscle in my book.

Would you consider a twin turbo integra muscle? :wink2:

Oh knock it off. Most everyone knows that muscle cars are typically V8s or bigger. There's always someone with a wise ass comment.

I'd say it's muscle if it came out of the factory with 300hp and 300lb-ft or more, regardless of cylinders. I think that definition will knock out most boosted four-bangers (WRX, EVOs) and any high-revving but low-torque V6s, though keeping the beefy V6s. I don't think you need a V8 to be a muscle car due to the fact that the WRXs and EVOs come out of the factory with more power than some of yester-year's "muscle" with half of the cylinders.

Thats what I was thinking. Because there ARE some beefy V6s out there that can compete with V8 torque curves just as a V8 can compete with a V10.

I run low to mid 13's in a fwd supercharged v6. I don't consider it muscle.

I don't care what the v6 or FIv4 makes, muscle needs to be a v8 (and have no handling ;))

Well either way...

8 DAYS GUYS!!!

Hopefully in 8 days we'll see a GXP!

What did most us 2nd and 3rd generation gearhead fathers say? "There's no replacement for displacement".

I'll tell those that care why I rather the L76 than a LS3; Gas, insurance, tax, etc. I know I can get some good power out of this engine for minimal price while still having the insurance man off my back!

I'll tell those that care why I rather the L76 than a LS3; Gas, insurance, tax, etc. I know I can get some good power out of this engine for minimal price while still having the insurance man off my back!

Insurance may not be more -I hope. It has to do with the stats and amount of claims. If G8 GXP owners are not wrecking their cars and they are not getting stolen any worse than the other G8's, then insurance should not be much different in price.

^I hope your right, but a 430hp car has to raise an eyebrow over at geico I'd think.

^I hope your right, but a 430hp car has to raise an eyebrow over at geico I'd think.

Oddly enough, a 400hp GTO didn't raise eyebrows at my insurance agency. Some of the rates has to do with who you are with & how you drive.

That's good. I'm still accident and ticket free at the 24. That's not saying I haven't been pulled over for speeding, but a 4 hour class took care of that. What an expensive parking ticket ;)

That's good. I'm still accident and ticket free at the 24. That's not saying I haven't been pulled over for speeding, but a 4 hour class took care of that. What an expensive parking ticket ;)
"Sir/Ma'am" and being cooperative go a long way, so I've heard. I think my brother has been pulled over 3 or 4 times without a ticket to show for any of them, even when he cut off an undercover cop. :shiner:

"Sir/Ma'am" and being cooperative go a long way, so I've heard. I think my brother has been pulled over 3 or 4 times without a ticket to show for any of them, even when he cut off an undercover cop. :shiner:

Couldn't agree with you more. Being disrespectful for the sake of being a badass is just dumb. Have fun with your ticket and higher insurance rates. At least you told him:shiner:

I've averaged a ticket every two years over the past 16 years and not one has affected my insurance rates.

Also, I got an insurance quote for a '07 Vette and it was only $100 more annually than my GTO. I would expect the GXP rates to fall somewhere between the two.

I've averaged a ticket every two years over the past 16 years and not one has affected my insurance rates.

Also, I got an insurance quote for a '07 Vette and it was only $100 more annually than my GTO. I would expect the GXP rates to fall somewhere between the two.

Really? I'd think a sedan would still be less than the gto. idk.

Really? I'd think a sedan would still be less than the gto. idk.

Insurance knows that the G8 means business.

I dont know how many here are early '04 GTO owners (08/04), but when they first came out, most insurance companies had no idea what they were underwriting and rates were relatively low.

It took about 9 months for all the totaled goats out there to start piling up before state farm raised my rate for collision/comp. Liablity didnt go up much, but I do have a clean record(knock on wood)for the last 5 yrs.

The same thing will probably happen again, unless GM actually stocks enough body panels and such to not have to wait 6 weeks for a fender. For some, the cost of the rental car to the insurance company was probably more than the damage.

Sorry boys and girls, the GXP is tentative, my brother is an engineer on the inside and he said to me the GXP is being considered (for Nov. 08') but with a 395 hp motor and M6 tranny only, no hi-hp engine due to ever stiffening CAFE regs over fuel economy. Besides I would not waste $$ on this new GT version as it's 250+ lbs more than the GTO and rather slow with only 361 hp\385 lb-ft\tq. Pontiac is marketing the car with a 0-60 time of 5.3 sec with the A6. That's just not true. To little power and to much
weight. My Bro says in testing they've seen 5.6 to 5.8 sec. 0-60. About the range of the old A4 GTO. I would not hold my breath for anything more than what I've listed here. Who ever said it IS going to have an LS3! does not know what they are talking about.

Also, thne G8 will be less in insurance simply for the fact that it's a 4 door. 3 doors or less raise rates considerably. The honda civic hatch base LX model is considered a sportscar.

Sorry boys and girls, the GXP is tentative, my brother is an engineer on the inside and he said to me the GXP is being considered (for Nov. 08') but with a 395 hp motor and M6 tranny only, no hi-hp engine due to ever stiffening CAFE regs over fuel economy. Besides I would not waste $$ on this new GT version as it's 250+ lbs more than the GTO and rather slow with only 361 hp\385 lb-ft\tq. Pontiac is marketing the car with a 0-60 time of 5.3 sec with the A6. That's just not true. To little power and to much
weight. My Bro says in testing they've seen 5.6 to 5.8 sec. 0-60. About the range of the old A4 GTO. I would not hold my breath for anything more than what I've listed here. Who ever said it IS going to have an LS3! does not know what they are talking about.

Also, thne G8 will be less in insurance simply for the fact that it's a 4 door. 3 doors or less raise rates considerably. The honda civic hatch base LX model is considered a sportscar.

I talked with the lady at the Minneapolis autoshow who is working the NY auto show and will be the one talking about the car for its coming out in a week.
Also see http://www.thecarconnection.com/Car_Shows_and_Concept_Cars/New_York_Auto_Show/2008_New_York_Auto_Show_Coverage.S293.A13870.html for the article on the show
Plus, why would they have a GXP version with horsepower so close to the GT...it would not sell

Sorry boys and girls, the GXP is tentative, my brother is an engineer on the inside and he said to me the GXP is being considered (for Nov. 08') but with a 395 hp motor and M6 tranny only, no hi-hp engine due to ever stiffening CAFE regs over fuel economy. Besides I would not waste $$ on this new GT version as it's 250+ lbs more than the GTO and rather slow with only 361 hp\385 lb-ft\tq. Pontiac is marketing the car with a 0-60 time of 5.3 sec with the A6. That's just not true. To little power and to much
weight. My Bro says in testing they've seen 5.6 to 5.8 sec. 0-60. About the range of the old A4 GTO. I would not hold my breath for anything more than what I've listed here. Who ever said it IS going to have an LS3! does not know what they are talking about.

Also, thne G8 will be less in insurance simply for the fact that it's a 4 door. 3 doors or less raise rates considerably. The honda civic hatch base LX model is considered a sportscar.

stop hating

Sparkyboy5x8 = Ryance85 = Troll

Who cares about CAFE laws... The requirements must be met in 12 years from now.. I'm sure we can get a few hipo engines in some of the new cars from now :judge:

Sorry boys and girls, the GXP is tentative, my brother is an engineer on the inside and he said to me the GXP is being considered (for Nov. 08') but with a 395 hp motor and M6 tranny only, no hi-hp engine due to ever stiffening CAFE regs over fuel economy. Besides I would not waste $$ on this new GT version as it's 250+ lbs more than the GTO and rather slow with only 361 hp\385 lb-ft\tq. Pontiac is marketing the car with a 0-60 time of 5.3 sec with the A6. That's just not true. To little power and to much
weight. My Bro says in testing they've seen 5.6 to 5.8 sec. 0-60. About the range of the old A4 GTO. I would not hold my breath for anything more than what I've listed here. Who ever said it IS going to have an LS3! does not know what they are talking about.

Either have your brother steal an official GM document stating 395 HP or just hold your water for the official announcement in a week (less actually).

Sorry boys and girls, the GXP is tentative, my brother is an engineer on the inside and he said to me the GXP is being considered (for Nov. 08') but with a 395 hp motor and M6 tranny only, no hi-hp engine due to ever stiffening CAFE regs over fuel economy. Besides I would not waste $$ on this new GT version as it's 250+ lbs more than the GTO and rather slow with only 361 hp\385 lb-ft\tq. Pontiac is marketing the car with a 0-60 time of 5.3 sec with the A6. That's just not true. To little power and to much
weight. My Bro says in testing they've seen 5.6 to 5.8 sec. 0-60. About the range of the old A4 GTO. I would not hold my breath for anything more than what I've listed here. Who ever said it IS going to have an LS3! does not know what they are talking about.

Also, thne G8 will be less in insurance simply for the fact that it's a 4 door. 3 doors or less raise rates considerably. The honda civic hatch base LX model is considered a sportscar.

So, GM's press release does not know what it is talking about when it states the GXP is getting the LS3. I would go back to your brother and kick him in the sensitive area for feeding you a bowl full of crap. That is, if your brother really does work deep in GM as an engineer.:judge:

GXP - 402 hp/ 402 lb-ft.

Not tentative - confirmed.

See Jalopnik and Autoblog.

GXP - 402 hp/ 402 lb-ft.

Not tentative - confirmed.

See Jalopnik and Autoblog.

Actually, those are preliminary numbers, pending final SAE certification.

Insurance knows that the G8 means business.

True, but they also know this car means saftey. Even the base model is equipped with 6 airbags including side curtain bags. All models has break-away pedals too. I think these saftey features with the 4 door configuration would put this car below the Vette and GTO as far as rates go.

True, but they also know this car means saftey. Even the base model is equipped with 6 airbags including side curtain bags. All models has break-away pedals too. I think these saftey features with the 4 door configuration would put this car below the Vette and GTO as far as rates go.
I'm not sure how much all of that really matters. I would think that life-threatening accidents would be lowered, but in general, I don't know. I've known plenty of people that have had accidents and in only one case did an airbag deploy (even though it was unnecessary). My point is that the casualties of most crashes are bumpers or doors and then engines/trunk and I'd imagine only a few would require air bags. I do understand that the driver and passengers are at risk of whiplash and getting their organs smashed into their ribs even if the engine compartment is the only casualty.. so I don't know how relevant that is to any numbers.

I'm just talking out of my butt though, as usual.

People are a lot more expensive to fix than cars. That has a lot to do with numbers.

Sorry boys and girls, the GXP is tentative, my brother is an engineer on the inside and he said to me the GXP is being considered (for Nov. 08') but with a 395 hp motor and M6 tranny only, no hi-hp engine due to ever stiffening CAFE regs over fuel economy. Besides I would not waste $$ on this new GT version as it's 250+ lbs more than the GTO and rather slow with only 361 hp\385 lb-ft\tq. Pontiac is marketing the car with a 0-60 time of 5.3 sec with the A6. That's just not true. To little power and to much
weight. My Bro says in testing they've seen 5.6 to 5.8 sec. 0-60. About the range of the old A4 GTO. I would not hold my breath for anything more than what I've listed here. Who ever said it IS going to have an LS3! does not know what they are talking about.

Also, thne G8 will be less in insurance simply for the fact that it's a 4 door. 3 doors or less raise rates considerably. The honda civic hatch base LX model is considered a sportscar.

Nice job Nostradamus.
Do you feel as stupid as you appear to be?

Nice job Nostradamus.
Do you feel as stupid as you appear to be?

:gr_jest::gr_jest::gr_jest:

Nice job Nostradamus.
Do you feel as stupid as you appear to be?

Post of the week! :) :drink:

I dont know how many here are early '04 GTO owners (08/04), but when they first came out, most insurance companies had no idea what they were underwriting and rates were relatively low.

Wow, spot on. 7/04 for me and yes the rates have gone UP every year and I'm with State Farm as well. Nice that a car gets older and you pay MORE in insurance. :rolleyes: That's what happens when the prices come down and the teens start wrecking them. It will probably happen to the G8 as well, not as bad, but probably similar. Too bad. :(

Nice job Nostradamus.
Do you feel as stupid as you appear to be?


bWhahahaha. That is going in my sig. :thumbsup:

http://media3.guzer.com/pictures/funny_owned_boy.jpg

Ok PMD now that's just lesbian abuse right there :( LMAO

Lol, I thought that was a guy. :gr_jest:

Nice job Nostradamus.
Do you feel as stupid as you appear to be?


I say a BURN!

lmao...