Repeatedly, I hear that our Goats are overweight, at 3725 pounds.

Yet, from several sources, I understand the G8 GT will weigh in at 3995 pounds, almost 300 more than the Goat.

Why don't we hear complaints about the G8 GT being heavy?

Performance-wise, the Goat has a weight/power of about 9.3 lbs/hp, while that for the G8 GT will be about 11.0.

I guess it's attractive to those who want a 4-door sedan, but I don't need/want four doors, so guess I'll just hang onto my "ill-fated GTO", as Edmunds.com (Inside Line) calls it, and enjoy the extra performance..:boink:

Probably there are no complaints, as you said, because it is a full size four door sedan. The G8 is as long as my Envoy.

Repeatedly, I hear that our Goats are overweight, at 3725 pounds.

..:boink:

One of my first posts ( after reading the specifications GM released back in February ) was, essentially: My goodness, nearly 4000 pounds?

After some additional checking I am no longer that surprised. And I see no cause for complaint.

I was initially comparing the G8 V8 to something like the BMW 335 Sedan.

That is really unfair, weight-wise. A more equitable comparison would be to the BMW 550 Sedan. With a V8, 360 HP and weighing just over 4000#. Or an Infiniti M45 Sedan – at close to the same weight.

So, in acceleration: Your GTO will beat my ( if I actually buy one ) G8.
And likely in absolute cornering power.

And that’s OK with me . . .
- Ray
Would you like to run against my 2007 Corvette??

I read where the Pontiac G8 can be compared to the Ford Crown Victorian as far as length. That's a pretty big damn car; don't know if I can believe that or not.
:confused:

I read where the Pontiac G8 can be compared to the Ford Crown Victorian as far as length. That's a pretty big damn car; don't know if I can believe that or not.
:confused:


i believe the vic's length is somewhere around the 110-111 inch range. where as the g8 is 198ish. wheelbase is similar, just the cut off endges are what make the g8 diff.

chrish

One of my first posts ( after reading the specifications GM released back in February ) was, essentially: My goodness, nearly 4000 pounds?

After some additional checking I am no longer that surprised. And I see no cause for complaint.

I was initially comparing the G8 V8 to something like the BMW 335 Sedan.

That is really unfair, weight-wise. A more equitable comparison would be to the BMW 550 Sedan. With a V8, 360 HP and weighing just over 4000#. Or an Infiniti M45 Sedan – at close to the same weight.

So, in acceleration: Your GTO will beat my ( if I actually buy one ) G8.
And likely in absolute cornering power.

And that’s OK with me . . .
- Ray


Like Ray said, I think we were all shocked when we found out the G8 was going to weigh this much. But, when you look at all the competition and cars of similar size, the G8 fits right with them all. After looking at the competition, I have no qualms about the weight.

Would you like to run against my 2007 Corvette??

Nope....Unless you give me a head start of about 10 car lengths on a quarter mile!....:gr_jest:....On second thought, make that 15!

Yeah, I realize that the G8 V8 is an entirely different class car and compares favorably with others in its class.

I guess that I just feel a little betrayed by GM (probably in the same boat with other Goat owners) because they did nothing that I know of in any attempt to save the GTO and keep it going.

I also resent Bob Lutz's two-faced positions on the GTO, being the greatest thing since sliced bread in the beginning. and then writing it off as bland and over-priced at the end.

But, that being said, I have never regretted buying the Goat and probably never will...:biggrin2:

2008 G8 Wheel Base 114.80 Inches Overall Length 196.10 Inches

2007 Crown Victoria Wheel Base 115 Inches Overall Length 212.0 Inches

“Yeah, I realize that the G8 V8 is an entirely different class car and compares favorably with others in its class.” - Mean Goat

I think that this statement constitutes one of the biggest challenges that Pontiac Marketing will face.

What ‘class’ is a G8 V8 in?

What are ‘legitimate’ competitors?

In performance?

In refinement?

In price?

In size?

I expect that most people who would buy a BMW 5 will not seriously consider a G8. In fact, I’d bet most will not even be aware that it exists, when they next head toward their dealer to look at a new 5.

I thought the current R&T comparison test between the new Caddy CTS and the Infiniti G was most interesting in the sidebar comments about the BMW 535 that they brought along – intending to test at the same time.

Link: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6147

The sidebar says essentially ( my copy of the magazine is at home ) that they quickly decided that comparison to the BMW was not ‘fair’ to the CTS or G35.

It was more refined in many ways, quicker ( that TT 3.0L I6 is a jewel ) than either and much more expensive as well.

Clearly, at something like $34K with all initially available options & packages, point for point comparisons of a V8 BMW ( 4.8L 360 HP & starting at $59,275, including destination charge ) with the G8 would clearly be unfair. Even the BMW 535i, starting at just over $50K is really not going to be comparable in most people’s eyes.

Yet, the expected acceleration numbers will likely be in the BMW 550i’s range.

( I am expecting \ predicting something very close to the BMW 550i’s numbers for the G8 V8. Since Pontiac says 0-60: just over 5 sec. & the 550i posted 5.0 in R&T – extrapolating to a Quarter Mile in 13.7-ish, vs. 13.5 for the 550. )

One key question is going to be whether or not the production G8’s dynamics ( the feel beyond the pure acceleration, braking & cornering numbers it eventually posts ) will be ‘close enough’ to a BMW to bear legitimate comparisons.

And whether or not the interior of production units displays fit, finish, materials quality and ergonomic impressions of ‘quality’. If the seats are both comfortable & supportive. If the controls work smoothly & the ride is well balanced with the handling capability. Etc.

And I can’t wait to see & drive one . . .

- Ray
Happy driving the Corvette, for now . . .

I rented a Grand Prix this weekend.

GP: wheelbase 110.5, length 198.3, width 71.6, height 55.9
G8: wheelbase 114.8, length 196.1, width 74.8, height 57.7

A little shorter, but higher and wider.

The extra 3 inches in width kinda freaks me out -- the Grand Prix was already a wide car. Maybe it's just the flares around the wheels that add that extra width?

Yeah, I realize that the G8 V8 is an entirely different class car and compares favorably with others in its class.

I guess that I just feel a little betrayed by GM (probably in the same boat with other Goat owners) because they did nothing that I know of in any attempt to save the GTO and keep it going.

I also resent Bob Lutz's two-faced positions on the GTO, being the greatest thing since sliced bread in the beginning. and then writing it off as bland and over-priced at the end.

But, that being said, I have never regretted buying the Goat and probably never will...:biggrin2:
From the beginning the GTO (latest version) was only intended to be a three year run. And at that time there was no intention of bringing over more rwd cars, let alone building anything more than CTS and the roadsters as rwd (outside of trucks). Then came Camaro, and possibly the next Impala on the heels of Australian car of the year Commodore. GM made pricing mistakes from day one wit hthe goat, it was overpriced throughout the entire run, not just at the end. That's why they are not yet all sold! As a larger than CTS vehicle, the G8 weighs close enough to a CTS that a G8 with driver only will weigh less than a CTS with driver and passenger.


What ‘class’ is a G8 V8 in?

What are ‘legitimate’ competitors?

In performance?

In refinement?

In price?

In size?


in all the above: Charger, 300, Taurus/Sable, except that each of those is also available in awd, but the Ford twins do not have the power.

In price as a primary, but we are larger than each: Accord, MKZ, Altima/Maxima, Mercedes C-class, base CTS (and we have the bang for the buck advantage)

To hell with price but comparable size and power: Jag XF, Audi A6, Mercedes E-class, BMW 5

Note I don't even include teh BMW 3 in teh smaller yet close in price because it is not, neither is an Audi A4 with any kind of an engine - both are higher than a CTS by far.
I rented a Grand Prix this weekend.

GP: wheelbase 110.5, length 198.3, width 71.6, height 55.9
G8: wheelbase 114.8, length 196.1, width 74.8, height 57.7

A little shorter, but higher and wider.

The extra 3 inches in width kinda freaks me out -- the Grand Prix was already a wide car. Maybe it's just the flares around the wheels that add that extra width?

1997-2003 Grand Prix
wb:110.5
length: 196.5
width: 72.7
height: 54.7

The current and pronounced dead GP shrunk in width over an inch while growing taller. The current Impala is even taller and longer. So the G8 surprisingly is shorter than a 97-03 GP, yet 3 inches taller and 2 inches wider. I don't mind the width as I know that the gain is interior shoulder and hip room, but think of the lateral performance gains if you lower a G8 by 2 inches, and also reduce frontal cf.

And at that time there was no intention of bringing over more rwd cars.....

For those who resented the GTO because it was imported, the same thinking could result in an Achilles' heel for the G8.

GM made pricing mistakes from day one with the goat, it was overpriced throughout the entire run, not just at the end.

I think that's what Lutz meant.

According to the press releases, the G8's got 107.5 cubic feet of cabin space and 17.5 cubic feet of trunk space. I don't know the figures for the GTO, but for comparison the Toyota Avalon, Hyundai Azera, Kia Amanti, Chrysler 300, Dodge Charger, Buick LaCrosse, Pontiac Grand Prix, and Nissan Maxima all have less passenger space and less trunk space. The Impala has 1.1 more cubic feet of cargo space but 3 cubic feet less cabin space.

Only the Ford Taurus (/Mercury Sable), Ford Crown Victoria (/Mercury Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car) and Buick Lucerne (/Cadillac DTS) offer more total interior space in a car you can get for less than $60,000.

The GTO was pretty big for a coupe, but the G8 is substantially larger. I think that totally excuses its added weight.

You also have to consider cost. The GTO started at $33,000, and the larger G8 GT, with more standard features, starts at $30,000. I'm sure GM could make it lighter if it was more expensive.

You make some good points. The G8 should appeal to those looking for a spacious 4-door sedan with RWD while wanting good performance at the same time.

As someone mentioned earlier, the GTO was meant to be built for only three years anyway.

At my age, the Goat (and the '06 Miata) will probably last longer than I will anyhow!....LOL

Also, there's always the possibility that GM will offer a new GTO sometime in the future.

I read where the Pontiac G8 can be compared to the Ford Crown Victorian as far as length. That's a pretty big damn car; don't know if I can believe that or not.
:confused:
Doesn't bother me any. :fawkdance:





;)

Crown Victoria length: 212in

G8 Length: 196in.


who the hell said they were even close?!

Sports cars are expected to be light. Sedans are expected to be heavy. Light sedans rock but they are not the norm.

Crown Victoria length: 212in

G8 Length: 196in.


who the hell said they were even close?!

Interior dimensions, in inches are a different story.
Front head room (0.6 CV)
CV: 39.3
G8: 38.7
Rear head room (0.1 G8)
CV: 37.9
G8: 38
Front Hiproom (1.3 CV)
CV: 58.0
G8: 56.7
Rear Hiproom (0.9 G8)
CV: 57.1
G8: 58
Front Legroom (0.3 CV)
CV: 42.5
G8: 42.2
Rear Legroom (0.2 CV)
CV: 39.6
G8: 39.4
Front Shoulder Room (1.7 CV)
CV: 60.8
G8: 59.1
Rear Shoulder Room (1.2 CV)
CV: 60.3
G8: 59.1

So the Crown Victoria is 16 inches longer and 2.5 inches wider, and 200 pounds heavier than the G8 V6, but basically has an insignificant amount of extra interior space in every way except shoulder room.

For passenger space, the G8 is one of the largest cars on the road.

Doesn't bother me any. :fawkdance:





;)

No doubt! Your used to cramming those limos into corners...:D

Of course yours aren't quite mainstream stock...:yumyum: