The GTO didn't get much help from the Pontiac ad men, I wonder what the G8's fate will be in their hands. Firstly, I am told that Pontiac is the excitement division of GMNA. From what I have seen so far I don't see too much excitment in the G8's range as a Pontiac. The colours available suggest a more mundane approach rather than a "lets get serious" approach. With pending availabilty of a wagon and ute still in the picture, I would have thought this was the right opportunity for Pontiac to stand up and take a chance. For instance, the high spoiler should be made available from day one (for those who like it), along with an optional body kit and wheels for the V8. These should be marketed along with an aggressive advertising campaign while teasing the public with future releases coming down the line. The base model V6 is the 'bread & butter" model, but they should be dangling the performance carrot (hot V8) over & above the V6 to say to Joe Public........."hey, Pontiac does stand for excitement". Feel free to add to this, I am really interested in how YOU would advertise the G8 range if it was your advertising project ( as if there was a promotion in it for you). LEMME HAVE IT

The GTO didn't get much help from the Pontiac ad men, I wonder what the G8's fate will be in their hands. Firstly, I am told that Pontiac is the excitement division of GMNA. From what I have seen so far I don't see too much excitment in the G8's range as a Pontiac. The colours available suggest a more mundane approach rather than a "lets get serious" approach. With pending availabilty of a wagon and ute still in the picture, I would have thought this was the right opportunity for Pontiac to stand up and take a chance. For instance, the high spoiler should be made available from day one (for those who like it), along an optional body kit and wheels for the V8. These should be marketed along with an aggressive advertising campaign while teasing the public with future releases coming down the line. The base model V6 is the 'bread & butter" model, but they should be dangling the performance carrot (hot V8) over & above the V6 to say to Joe Public........."hey, Pontiac does stand for excitement". Feel free to add to this, I am really interested in how YOU would advertise the G8 range if it was your advertising project ( as if there was a promotion in it for you). LEMME HAVE IT


Pontiac is supposed to be the DRIVING excitement division. Obnoxious colors, body kits, and big spoilers do not add to the driving excitement. They may add some excitement for the people that look at colors, kits and spoilers to determine if a car is quick or handles well, and for those that put look-at-me appearance cues as a priority over performance. For me, I prefer to get my performance in a nice but subdued package. Please, leave out all the superfluous extras.

Nice response........but you haven't discussed how you would advertise the g8, bearing in mind the less than enthralling GTO advertising upon release. You also have a distinct advantage over me since you live there and know the car market there far more than I do.

The GTO didn't get much help from the Pontiac ad men, I wonder what the G8's fate will be in their hands. Firstly, I am told that Pontiac is the excitement division of GMNA. From what I have seen so far I don't see too much excitment in the G8's range as a Pontiac. The colours available suggest a more mundane approach rather than a "lets get serious" approach. With pending availabilty of a wagon and ute still in the picture, I would have thought this was the right opportunity for Pontiac to stand up and take a chance. For instance, the high spoiler should be made available from day one (for those who like it), along an optional body kit and wheels for the V8. These should be marketed along with an aggressive advertising campaign while teasing the public with future releases coming down the line. The base model V6 is the 'bread & butter" model, but they should be dangling the performance carrot (hot V8) over & above the V6 to say to Joe Public........."hey, Pontiac does stand for excitement". Feel free to add to this, I am really interested in how YOU would advertise the G8 range if it was your advertising project ( as if there was a promotion in it for you). LEMME HAVE IT



Olly: I totally agree with you.

I'm hoping that GM & Pontiac's advertising proves me wrong, but in the past they've really sucked! I was pleasantly supprised to see the nice spread of the new G8 in the major car magizines. Hopefully more commercials & test drive city cites will follow.

So much for emailing us any info. from their stupid website. That was a bust.

Anyways, a spoiler would be nice to add..... *sigh*

Thanks Mike.....but again I also wan't to hear how you guys would advertise the G8 if you had the chance. BTW........it's nice to see the word PONTIAC on a Holden for the first time as opposed to just the arrowhead.

Pontiac is going to run into "legacy cost" issues with the advertising of the bread and butter models like the G8. Usually legacy costs are a good thing but with Pontiac and General Motors as a whole they have made a substandard product for so long it is going to take quite a bit to get the fickle American public back into their cars. They need a national tour for ride and drives against the competition: 300, Charger, or if the car can compete, Toyota Avalon. The V6 model G8, at least on paper, offers an Avalon sized car at a price that is less than the base of the V6 Camry or Maxima. If the chassis is as good as they say it should trample both dynamically. You can also get a G8 GT for less than the Avalon. It won't be hard to convert the Chrysler boys, it is the import guys you need help with. If they want to go toe to toe with the BMW crowd then they have to be absolutely certain they can win. I believe that the G8 GT should be able to handle the Infiniti G35 sedan and M35/45 sedans in a comparison and both Infinitis cost more. Maybe compare the G8 GT to the BMW 550 sedan, the G8 is bigger in every interior dimension and the motor should outperform the BMW. Play to the fact that the G8 costs less than half the BMW and say you can get a G8 GT and a Solstice GXP for the price of the BMW. Going up against the Germans you need to be sure you are close, all too often car companies claim they offer BMW performance at a bargain basement prices and come up short. If you aren't close don't bother comparing to the Germans. With a volume car you need to sell to the volume customer. Us performance minded enthusiasts will actively look for the best car for us, but the average Joe needs help and really only wants to go to one dealership. The average buyer doesn't want the hassle of going to 4 or 5 different lots to compare cars personally. They, more or less, want to be told what to buy straight away.

With the small amount of information we have it is difficult to develop a marketing campaign for this car. But...
When we get closer to launch start running the TV ads. Get as many car comparison tests in magazines as possible and hope you win, both V6 and V8 models. Race it in a "production based" race series, Speed World Challenge or Grand Am Koni Challenge, something like that. Do the ride and drives across the nation as mentioned above. I have a feeling once you get people in the car they will be sold, but you have to get them in the car. This is a half-baked plan, I know, but without having seen, driven, lived with, a full production car and not knowing how many they are importing every year it is difficult to develop a plan.

The ’05 and ’06 GTOs did say Pontiac. It was only the ‘04s that did not have Pontiac as a badge. See the picture below of an ’05.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/2407000-2407999/2407210_26_full.jpg

I hear it all the time that the marketing of the GTO was not great. I disagree. The cars first reviews in magazines were positive. It was not until the old time GTO enthusiasts started to express their displeasure about the new GTO that the perception of the GTO started to become negative.

Look at some of the commercials that ran here in the states and decide for your self if Pontiac made good commercials. Links are provided below. My personal favorites are Pontiacs in Action and commercials 1, 5, and 6.

Pontiacs In Action Clip (http://www.pontiac-power.ch/Download/Commercials/2004PontiacInAction.wmv)
Pontiac Commercial #1 (http://www.ls1gto.com/media/artwork/GTOAD.WMV)
Pontiac Commercial #2 (http://www.ls1gto.com/media/artwork/gto2.WMV)
Pontiac Commercial #3 (http://www.ls1gto.com/media/artwork/gto3.WMV)
Pontiac Commercial # 4 (http://www.ls1gto.com/media/artwork/gto4.WMV)
Pontiac Commercial #5 (http://www.ls1gto.com/media/artwork/gto5.WMV)
Pontiac Commercial #6 (http://www.ls1gto.com/media/artwork/gto6.WMV)
Pontiac Commercial # 7 (http://www.ls1gto.com/media/artwork/gto7.wmv)
Pontiac Commercial # 8 (http://www.ls1gto.com/media/artwork/gto8.wmv)
Pontiac Commercial # 9 (http://www.ls1gto.com/media/artwork/gto9.wmv)
Pontiac Commercial #10 (http://www.ls1gto.com/media/artwork/gto10.wmv)

All these clips, and other reviews and information about the GTO can be found at ls1gto.com in the media section. A link is provided below.

http://www.ls1gto.com/media/

The was also a made for TV move called "The Last Ride" which was basically a long commercial for the GTO.

Pontiac also integrated the GTO into many other movies and TV shows.

Pontiac will not have to battle the heritage of the GTO name, so I think the G8 will do fine if Pontiac makes commercials similar to the ones they made for the GTO.

i also hope they come out with some good advertising for the g8. im happy with the colors (minus not having fom, bom or som as an option) and the lack of a spoiler as i prefer the lip spoiler anyways. im going to have to agree with veri, i dont dig all the flashy kits, spoilers and super super bright colors. i prefer a cleaner, more subdued appearance. whats under the hood and in the suspension will really give the car the mean and demonic swagger that you will want. thats why i loved the gto, super clean lines, good materials, suspension, and no crappy body kits or super sized wings. remember, theres no "raw" replacement for displacement =) or thats what i like to think...

chrish

Veritasatis...I stand corrected on the Pontiac badge...having seen so many GTO's on the ls1 site and not seeing the badge I think a visit to my optometrist is in order. There are some good comments on the advertising topic so far. From what I am getting, most want all the good stuff underneath with a sleeper look rather than the WOW!! look and that's fine. It would seem obvious that it will be directed to an older market (family man) but still have the power factor to play with. Can someone explain what the expectations of the GXP will be?

Couple thoughts on this.

Pontiac IS the "driving excitement" division of GM, but they don't need garrish, obnoxious colors, huge spoilers, and body cladding kits to denote "driving excitement". They tried this experiment in the late 80's early 90's and while their cars were successful, they didn't necessarily attract import lovers from their BMW's, and other foreign junk into a GM showroom.

The "driving excitement" you want should be left to the car itself, letting it do the talking. Give it the right look, then let the car stand on it's own merits. This car is very BMW'esque/European'esque, with just the right dose of American "attitude" that along with it's driving dynamics, will get people into Pontiac showrooms.

You haven't seen much marketing yet, because it's all in the timing of it. While you do want to "pre-sell" the car with good marketing and good word of mouth (which much of the auto rags have done), in effect, getting people salivating, but you don't want to do it too early. Doing it too early, can bite you just as hard as doing it too late.

Expect to start seeing more marketing of this car REAL soon as the first batch start there trek over here. This along with the G6 and potentially a mid-market, 4 cyl/6 cyl, RWD car (which is purely speculative at the moment) slotting between the G5 and G6, will be Pontiac's bread and butter, so you better bet they're gonna market it

CMNTMXR..... do you expect the G8's to be sold immediately or is there going to be a launch date backed up by a marketing plan. If I remember correctly ( I am sure I will be told otherwise if this isn't the case), the GTO's simply went out the doors as soon as they started arriving there.

If I was Pontiac/GM, would be getting :hail: Michael Bay to create a G8 Transformer (might make a good Wheeljack maybe?) for the upcomming sequal

http://www.robot-japan.com/Gallery/Takara/Diaclone/wheeljack/Wheeljack.JPG
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2134/1573286713_5b22dff462_o.jpg
(BTW this VE is 'Curtis VE-SS' from the ls1.com.au forums and used without his permission, but he loves his car being flashed around :) )

I agree that Pontiac needs to advertise the G8, however, I disagree with those that think the GTO was not advertised enough. I saw every GTO commercial on TV. I live in the Tampa, Fl area, which in my opinion is not the hugest car market for a domestic car company. People here tend to buy more imports like Hondas for their teens and Benzs and Bimmers for their wifeys, so Pontiac pushed the GTO because of this.

Also, I still believe that there will be some sort of dealer installed appearance package ala the GTO's SAP package, which might include the so-called "boy racer" spoiler.

Well.....Holden usually market the commodore this way...
Base model V6 auto, bland colours, for fleet sales
Berlina V6 or V8....more appointments......classier
Calais V6 or V8.......top of the line with all luxury appointments
Sportier V6 with the appropiate colours and body effects/wheels...more power etc
SS....only in V8 guise..hot colours like the sportier 6...ss badges, performance stuff inside,underneath and outside
Then HSV variants for the serious punter.
Would there be a market for a Pontiac Performance Division (aka HSV) where you get the factory to cater for the serious performance buyer?

Thanks for the links Veritasatis........interesting vids. I don't think all of them would make it to tv audiences here...in oz though. Thanks for the input.

Speaking of the Transformers, I was talking with a 40+ a while back who had just noticed GM was coming out with a new Camaro because their teens dragged them to see the movie. There seem to be many people, I assume, who walk off during commercials, don't watch the news, haven't picked up a book in years, and the only magazines they read are Consumer Reports and TV Guide. They may also read chain e-mails and do some light surfing focused on whatever their narrow interests are. Hey, wait a minute. That sounds like me! So continuing to work products into movies and TV shows seems like the way to reach people who otherwise wouldn't notice a new vehicle until they see it parked in front of them in traffic.

Admittedly, a lot of these people are a bunch of CR zombies who will buy Camry's anyway. That would be a funny commercial. Camry driving zombies chanting "Brains! Brains!" chasing after a G8. De-zombify in a G8! I realize Camry isn't a competitive target but would be funny.

Something else to think about is put racy vinyl on a car and drive it around in major cities for a week or two in the slow lane during rush hour. Greenies wouldn't like the rolling billboard but it would get attention.

GM's advertising is very conservative and made inoffensive to the point of blandness, so tough to think of something within those constraints. It seems you have to be a smaller company to get away with plucky fun advertisement like Mazda or Hyundai. If GM had the big "duh" campaign they'd probably get attacked by the media.

Well.....Holden usually market the commodore this way...
Base model V6 auto, bland colours, for fleet sales
Berlina V6 or V8....more appointments......classier
Calais V6 or V8.......top of the line with all luxury appointments
Sportier V6 with the appropiate colours and body effects/wheels...more power etc
SS....only in V8 guise..hot colours like the sportier 6...ss badges, performance stuff inside,underneath and outside
Then HSV variants for the serious punter.
Would there be a market for a Pontiac Performance Division (aka HSV) where you get the factory to cater for the serious performance buyer?

Ponitac does not have a performance "division", but they do have a performance series (GXP) which usually includes more horsepower, better handling, and some visual cues. There are GXP versions of the Solstice, Torrent, and G6; and it is likely that there will be a GXP version of the G8.

Admittedly, a lot of these people are a bunch of CR zombies who will buy Camry's anyway. That would be a funny commercial. Camry driving zombies chanting "Brains! Brains!" chasing after a G8. De-zombify in a G8! I realize Camry isn't a competitive target but would be funny.

.

You're right Camrys would probably not make much sense. But BMW 5 series and maybe Benz E-Classes would make more sense. But maybe that would be a little over the top for Pontiac, but that may work in their favor. Grab people's attention and make them figure out what the car is all about if they are taking on the Sport Sedan King. Could work.

Obnoxious colors, body kits, and big spoilers do not add to the driving excitement.

Please, speak for yourself.

There is nothing fun or satisfying about owning a dull looking car. I would not have purchased a GTO if it was not offered in orange and if I could not make it look it's part with the SAP kit.

Frankly, the wheel and color offerings on the G8 are very disappointing. The palette is drab except for the blue and orange and the orange isn't anywhere near as rich as the orange we got on the GTO. We are not getting the choice of Holden's green, yellow or purple either. You may not like those hues, but there are plenty of us that do and would like to own the car in those colors. GM isn't even offering it in silver for 2008, a thoroughly boring but one of the most popular color choices in this country.

Some of us want a car that looks very special, not ordinary. We want to draw looks and stand apart from the crowd. A dull grey, black or white G8 with painted wheels isn't going to get it done. To normal people it will not look special at all that way.

The stock Charger is more interesting to look at and offers proper muscle car colors for those that want them. People that like vanilla can get it plain too. Holden caters to all tastes in Australia, GM is not doing so with it here.

Huge mistake.

Please, speak for yourself.

There is nothing fun or satisfying about owning a dull looking car. I would not have purchased a GTO if it was not offered in orange and if I could not make it look it's part with the SAP kit.

Frankly, the wheel and color offerings on the G8 are very disappointing. The palette is drab except for the blue and orange and the orange isn't anywhere near as rich as the orange we got on the GTO. We are not getting the choice of Holden's green, yellow or purple either. You may not like those hues, but there are plenty of us that do and would like to own the car in those colors. GM isn't even offering it in silver for 2008, a thoroughly boring but one of the most popular color choices in this country.

Some of us want a car that looks very special, not ordinary. We want to draw looks and stand apart from the crowd. A dull grey, black or white G8 with painted wheels isn't going to get it done. To normal people it will not look special at all that way.

The stock Charger is more interesting to look at and offers proper muscle car colors for those that want them. People that like vanilla can get it plain too. Holden caters to all tastes in Australia, GM is not doing so with it here.

Huge mistake.


I TOTALLY agree! I like a little flashy, just not tacky.

Also, what exactly is exciting about driving a car like this with no manual?

If GM wants Pontiac to be a performance brand with "driving excitement" for the masses it is pretty lame that their flagship car will not be offering a manual - at least for the first year. The way GM is handling this car makes it very easy to poke holes in it's image and Pontiac's image. That's already happening outside of GM sites.

But hey, at least we're getting the Commodore's big spoiler. I wouldn't put it one mine personally but I would never argue that it shouldn't be offered in our market for those that want it.

But hey, at least we're getting the Commodore's big spoiler. I wouldn't put it one mine personally but I would never argue that it shouldn't be offered in our market for those that want it.

Sorry to be a wet blanket but I'm not sure the US is getting the 'big' spoiler, maybe the medium spoiler. In Australia, Holden have just released MY08.5 and the SS-V specific big spolier (which was body coloured with black plastic underneath and supports) has been replaced with the medium size spolier (which is slightly smaller and completely body coloured is from the SS and SV6.

Medium Spolier from SS and SV6:
http://us.tnpv.net/2006/GMC200607/GMC2006071732402_PV.jpg

Big spolier from SS-V:
http://us.tnpv.net/2006/GMC200607/GMC2006071550366_PV.jpg

So technically the US is getting a 'bigger' spolier but i'm not sure it will be the biggest. Maybe I'm biased because I own an SS-V but it's spoiler is definatley the better looking, so if you find out your not getting the SS-V spolier, I would get one aftermarket/imported instead of the dealer fitted 'medium' spolier.

I'm going to say it's not the advertising as much as what they are selling.


Damn.:cursin:

The first ones out the door aren't going to be the most anticipated ones.

The colors are Boring to start. The wheels don't do the car justice. A flagship car should have the availability of many options and it's not happening in the 08 model. The colors are Terrible. The car is missing a manual transmission at the START of the launch. The colors available need reviewed and changed. A worthy performance (GXP) version is missing at the start of the launch.

The guy in charge of marketing should of pitched a bitch about how he was going to push cars with such a lackluster color availability, no manual transmission, GXP version, lack of options and interior color choices. The G8 could offer so much more.


G8 commercial should go. "It might be better in 2009."

I'll be at the dealer to test drive the 08. I'll tell him to give me a call when GM starts making better ones. Now on my color rant, why can't we have deep blues and reds. Silver or charcoal? Old man tan and the brown that Buick is pushing is popular as well.

So, just like here, there is a market for several major variants of the same car. I looked at the colours available from Pontiacs website and some comments on here reinforced my concerns. There are those whow want stealth and those who want the bright colours and body kits to go with them. No manual for 08 is also dissapointing..........I just hope they get their act together sooner than later. What also frustrates me is that I can have available to me right now any of the requests listed above...yet only some will be available as a G8. I wondewr what the logic is behind that? :err:

Please, speak for yourself.

There is nothing fun or satisfying about owning a dull looking car. I would not have purchased a GTO if it was not offered in orange and if I could not make it look it's part with the SAP kit.


tri, i love the brazen, sunset and fusion orange colors. they are my favorite and first choice no doubt. but i believe if his taste is anything like mine, that when we say no flashy body kits we are talking about big goofy body kits. your kit, is sleek, and flows with the body lines. and quite frankly i love it! i also agree with you on the manual deal, driving excitement is just non-existent with an auto only. but i guess this is why we all have different tastes.

ps... ill say it again, i love your bom gto! clean lines, great color... need i say more...

chrish

.....I just hope they get their act together sooner than later. What also frustrates me is that I can have available to me right now any of the requests listed above...yet only some will be available as a G8. I wondewr what the logic is behind that? :err:

No logic. Just a poorly executed launch. If it's already available it's just ridiculous to not offer it.

The thing that makes me the angriest is that there is no manual offering right off the bat...

*sigh*

That's at least one lost sale until the 2009 models roll out.

will:

A problem with comparing the G8 to the BMW 5 Series or G35 is segment. The 5 series is far more luxurious (the G8 only has size on it), and the G35 is a sport compact sedan. The G8 needs to be put against cars in its class, not outside. Also, GM would not push this against the 5 series as thats what the STS replacement will be for (same segment and size by then), and the CTS is a 3 series fighter.


The G8 most easily compares to the Charger, 300 and 300C, and the Ford Taurus (new one). In all cases it'd be an easy winner with (when comparing its V6 to the competitors V6 and its V8 to competitors V8) more power and better fuel economy.

The Toyota Avalon is a tough fight to win though, and an example of how I think this can all go wrong for GM.

Ask yourself, what is luxury about in 2008? Its not about wood and leather anymore: its about technology. BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Lexus now have ridiculous amounts of tech in their cars, they almost never talk about the interior materials anymore unless it is using real Carbon Fiber somewhere. Its all about tech in the modern Luxury game.

But wood and leather still sell cars: in the "normal" segment. Toyota is offering wood and leather in all their cars now except the small econo-boxes: Hyundai is using it standard in some places. Nissan's offer it, and the new Accord has an interior on par with Acura's. The non-luxury segment today looks like the luxury segment of 2003. I've heard arguements and argued myself that Chrysler needs to re-sell itself as a non-luxury vehicle today, because they are still trying to sell people on interior quality and wood and leather: everyone in the luxury game is a step above that though.

So whats all this have to do with the G8 facing down the Avalon? The Avalon's interior is chalk full of wood and leather, and looks like a pre-2006 Lexus. In other words, if GM put the G8 up against the Avalon, the only thing the G8 would have is rear-wheel drive, and a V8. But I can predict ride quality and interior quality and over-all plushness to belong to the Avalon hands down: its just playing at a level above.

I keep telling people that the Big 3 need to do more than they are to fight the import brands: its happened before, whenever they catch up to the imports, the imports change the game. Chrysler today is still trying to sell itself as a luxury brand by talking about leather and wood, when everyone else in the game has moved onto design and technology. GM at least let Cadillac move on its own and the new CTS stands in the same line as the rest of the luxury ground by itself pushing design and technology.

So what happens if we market the G8 against the Avalon? The G8 is a large sports sedan for the people, not a plush grocery getter like the Avalon. The Avalon will easily win over the crowd of people in the suburbs and have kids: these people tend to be "safe" type people, and will want FWD or AWD for snowy roads. Wood on the dash? Leather seats? Large features list oriented towards family and such, with living rather than driving the car at the top?

Yah, the G8 loses here. Just as it would versus the 5 series.

But thats exactly what we point out! This is not a 5 series or Avalon, we don't even need to mention those. Why? This is a rear wheel drive sports sedan for the masses (of single males or females who love driving). Its not a family grocery getter (but with seating for 5, it could function as that one day if it needs to), and it isn't a luxury grand tourer or suburban cruiser. Its not some rural-living weekend hot-rodder or drag-strip queen. Its meant to tear down a street, burn through a corner, and catch up to your boss's new Jaguar XK (which it probably actually could run down the standard XK).

So that'd be our first commercial: guy(girl, whatever) has bad day at the design studio (it could be an office, but no way one where everyone is wearing those white shirts and black ties), and the boss is mad. Boss leaves. Boss intentionally forgets to take something with him/her, and calls (preferably texts) the sad employee and says "you better have it at my house no later then 5 minutes after I get there, or else." Employee jumps in shiny new G8, insert rip-roaring driving scene here (make sure to capture the engine roar) and employee is at boss's mansion in the Hamptons before the boss is. Our sad employee gives a wicked smile to the boss, and leaves a figure 8 in the driveway on the way out. The G8 soars toward the camera, and the last thing we see is the Pontiac symbol up front.

The meaning behind all of it? One, it doesn't reek of the mid-west. You may be surprised to know that the "center states" are bleeding young people faster than, well, very fast. Whats the least mid-west you can get? The Hamptons. Only the southern mid-west states like Texas are seeing increases, or Chicago, but most are trying to move toward the coasts. Two, it avoids any comparisons to any of the old GM vehicles: in fact, none are displayed at all. Three, the Jaguar actually serves a purpose here. While the XK is using a ten year old engine, the XKR is actually decently fast, and both look remarkably good. Also, Jaguar is officially British again, so its not a car Americans ruined. Four, by avoiding the "black slacks, white shirt, cubicle hermit" look, we avoid any comparisons to someone who is less than hip. We don't need to use any poser style here, but actually market it as if its for the fashionable yet less-than-wealthy group. I do recommend "Shiny Toy Guns" "Le Disko" as the music we set the commercial to. The band is trying as hard as it can to remain indie, and even released its first two albums independently, but still has plenty of national corporate sponsorship. The result? A sound that is pretty descript of the 20-30ish crowd. Kanye West's "Stronger" might be good too, but Kanye might want to do the commercial himself (which, actually, would be a good thing).

Since that will be quite long, I recommend that we run it during the Super-bowl. I know I know, some of you are thinking "and are you going to pay for it?" People are buying DVR's JUST to fast forward through commercials most of the time. Hence, TV advertising will not work very well at all for the G8's target audience, as the youth crowd (ever unadverse to technology) will probably just skip these otherwise. But at what time of the year do people sit around a TV to INTENTIONALLY see the commercials? Realistically, 30 to 45 seconds is all that will be needed to show off the suspension, interior, and performance (roughly $5 million in cost). Those are the three areas I think need to be shown off most during the drive sequence, as those first two will address any particular issues people had with domestic vehicles, and the last one speaks to the customer's inner driver. We shoot the performance part from the exterior of the car, which will also give customers a hint of the styling.

A second commercial (to run online and during anything broadcast in HD on cable networks) would actually take cues from the name, G8. The Group of Eight stands for, among other things, everything international to younger Americans. So we shoot the G8 in the G8, tearing down roads throughout Europe and parts of Asia. Suits and ties on the actors/actresses for another "professional" look. The color palet for Europe will be grays and blacks. In Asia, we use the Orange and neon colors. Once in America though, its night, the car is in red, and the only glimpse of it we see is the car with its tires burning, sliding sideways from one side of the street to the other in front of the West Face of the Capitol Building. Make sure its a long frame on the G8. I don't think it should be to much trouble to get a commercial shot there at night.

After that, I think there will be plenty of interest in the car. Assorted online advertising will keep people coming for it, and get rid of the horrible rock music currently on the teaser website.

Shows and Channels to run ads next to: Nip/Tuck on FX, any investigative reports on the Discovery Times Channel, CNN, MTV's 6 o'clock and after programming, G4TV's "Attack of the Show." Anything else will need to be done as product placement, preferably on "Heroes" and other high rated network shows, but nothing during any local news broadcasts or late night programming. We want to paint this car in a light that is not locally fixated, but something the purchaser can think of as respected anywhere.

One thing to my commercial ideas though: they don't work without a manual. Booo GM. A car tends to do its best presentation in its first year, and as this will be a first year flop thanks to lack of manual (you can't do a powerslide with the transmission constantly searching for the gears), i doubt we will see it sell well after.

will:

A problem with comparing the G8 to the BMW 5 Series or G35 is segment. The 5 series is far more luxurious (the G8 only has size on it), and the G35 is a sport compact sedan. The G8 needs to be put against cars in its class, not outside. Also, GM would not push this against the 5 series as thats what the STS replacement will be for (same segment and size by then), and the CTS is a 3 series fighter.


The G8 most easily compares to the Charger, 300 and 300C, and the Ford Taurus (new one). In all cases it'd be an easy winner with (when comparing its V6 to the competitors V6 and its V8 to competitors V8) more power and better fuel economy.

The Toyota Avalon is a tough fight to win though, and an example of how I think this can all go wrong for GM.

Ask yourself, what is luxury about in 2008? Its not about wood and leather anymore: its about technology. BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Lexus now have ridiculous amounts of tech in their cars, they almost never talk about the interior materials anymore unless it is using real Carbon Fiber somewhere. Its all about tech in the modern Luxury game.

But wood and leather still sell cars: in the "normal" segment. Toyota is offering wood and leather in all their cars now except the small econo-boxes: Hyundai is using it standard in some places. Nissan's offer it, and the new Accord has an interior on par with Acura's. The non-luxury segment today looks like the luxury segment of 2003. I've heard arguements and argued myself that Chrysler needs to re-sell itself as a non-luxury vehicle today, because they are still trying to sell people on interior quality and wood and leather: everyone in the luxury game is a step above that though.

So whats all this have to do with the G8 facing down the Avalon? The Avalon's interior is chalk full of wood and leather, and looks like a pre-2006 Lexus. In other words, if GM put the G8 up against the Avalon, the only thing the G8 would have is rear-wheel drive, and a V8. But I can predict ride quality and interior quality and over-all plushness to belong to the Avalon hands down: its just playing at a level above.

I keep telling people that the Big 3 need to do more than they are to fight the import brands: its happened before, whenever they catch up to the imports, the imports change the game. Chrysler today is still trying to sell itself as a luxury brand by talking about leather and wood, when everyone else in the game has moved onto design and technology. GM at least let Cadillac move on its own and the new CTS stands in the same line as the rest of the luxury ground by itself pushing design and technology.

So what happens if we market the G8 against the Avalon? The G8 is a large sports sedan for the people, not a plush grocery getter like the Avalon. The Avalon will easily win over the crowd of people in the suburbs and have kids: these people tend to be "safe" type people, and will want FWD or AWD for snowy roads. Wood on the dash? Leather seats? Large features list oriented towards family and such, with living rather than driving the car at the top?

Yah, the G8 loses here. Just as it would versus the 5 series.

But thats exactly what we point out! This is not a 5 series or Avalon, we don't even need to mention those. Why? This is a rear wheel drive sports sedan for the masses (of single males or females who love driving). Its not a family grocery getter (but with seating for 5, it could function as that one day if it needs to), and it isn't a luxury grand tourer or suburban cruiser. Its not some rural-living weekend hot-rodder or drag-strip queen. Its meant to tear down a street, burn through a corner, and catch up to your boss's new Jaguar XK (which it probably actually could run down the standard XK).

So that'd be our first commercial: guy(girl, whatever) has bad day at the design studio (it could be an office, but no way one where everyone is wearing those white shirts and black ties), and the boss is mad. Boss leaves. Boss intentionally forgets to take something with him/her, and calls (preferably texts) the sad employee and says "you better have it at my house no later then 5 minutes after I get there, or else." Employee jumps in shiny new G8, insert rip-roaring driving scene here (make sure to capture the engine roar) and employee is at boss's mansion in the Hamptons before the boss is. Our sad employee gives a wicked smile to the boss, and leaves a figure 8 in the driveway on the way out. The G8 soars toward the camera, and the last thing we see is the Pontiac symbol up front.

The meaning behind all of it? One, it doesn't reek of the mid-west. You may be surprised to know that the "center states" are bleeding young people faster than, well, very fast. Whats the least mid-west you can get? The Hamptons. Only the southern mid-west states like Texas are seeing increases, or Chicago, but most are trying to move toward the coasts. Two, it avoids any comparisons to any of the old GM vehicles: in fact, none are displayed at all. Three, the Jaguar actually serves a purpose here. While the XK is using a ten year old engine, the XKR is actually decently fast, and both look remarkably good. Also, Jaguar is officially British again, so its not a car Americans ruined. Four, by avoiding the "black slacks, white shirt, cubicle hermit" look, we avoid any comparisons to someone who is less than hip. We don't need to use any poser style here, but actually market it as if its for the fashionable yet less-than-wealthy group. I do recommend "Shiny Toy Guns" "Le Disko" as the music we set the commercial to. The band is trying as hard as it can to remain indie, and even released its first two albums independently, but still has plenty of national corporate sponsorship. The result? A sound that is pretty descript of the 20-30ish crowd. Kanye West's "Stronger" might be good too, but Kanye might want to do the commercial himself (which, actually, would be a good thing).

Since that will be quite long, I recommend that we run it during the Super-bowl. I know I know, some of you are thinking "and are you going to pay for it?" People are buying DVR's JUST to fast forward through commercials most of the time. Hence, TV advertising will not work very well at all for the G8's target audience, as the youth crowd (ever unadverse to technology) will probably just skip these otherwise. But at what time of the year do people sit around a TV to INTENTIONALLY see the commercials? Realistically, 30 to 45 seconds is all that will be needed to show off the suspension, interior, and performance (roughly $5 million in cost). Those are the three areas I think need to be shown off most during the drive sequence, as those first two will address any particular issues people had with domestic vehicles, and the last one speaks to the customer's inner driver. We shoot the performance part from the exterior of the car, which will also give customers a hint of the styling.

A second commercial (to run online and during anything broadcast in HD on cable networks) would actually take cues from the name, G8. The Group of Eight stands for, among other things, everything international to younger Americans. So we shoot the G8 in the G8, tearing down roads throughout Europe and parts of Asia. Suits and ties on the actors/actresses for another "professional" look. The color palet for Europe will be grays and blacks. In Asia, we use the Orange and neon colors. Once in America though, its night, the car is in red, and the only glimpse of it we see is the car with its tires burning, sliding sideways from one side of the street to the other in front of the West Face of the Capitol Building. Make sure its a long frame on the G8. I don't think it should be to much trouble to get a commercial shot there at night.

After that, I think there will be plenty of interest in the car. Assorted online advertising will keep people coming for it, and get rid of the horrible rock music currently on the teaser website.

Shows and Channels to run ads next to: Nip/Tuck on FX, any investigative reports on the Discovery Times Channel, CNN, MTV's 6 o'clock and after programming, G4TV's "Attack of the Show." Anything else will need to be done as product placement, preferably on "Heroes" and other high rated network shows, but nothing during any local news broadcasts or late night programming. We want to paint this car in a light that is not locally fixated, but something the purchaser can think of as respected anywhere.

Yeah... thats what I was gonna say.....

The G8 most easily compares to the Charger, 300 and 300C, and the Ford Taurus (new one). In all cases it'd be an easy winner with (when comparing its V6 to the competitors V6 and its V8 to competitors V8) more power and better fuel economy.

Have to agree with this in terms of domestic manufacturers.

Its not a family grocery getter (but with seating for 5, it could function as that one day if it needs to), and it isn't a luxury grand tourer or suburban cruiser. Its not some rural-living weekend hot-rodder or drag-strip queen. Its meant to tear down a street, burn through a corner, and catch up to your boss's new Jaguar XK (which it probably actually could run down the standard XK).


I beg to differ on this. I am a rural living "weekend hotrodder" looking for a new four door family grocery getter (just a fun one). G8 looks to be fitting the bill on that score, but with much more appealing styling than the old "two box" design of the 300:barf:. If I get to chase down a few Jags...costing tens of thousands more, so much the better. :thumbsup:

What a long read. I'm one of those Midwesterners who wants to buy the G8. I'm married as well. It's not a young person only car. The young person model is the GXP whenever the GM guys wipe the sleepy dirt out of their eyes and start cranking them out. :quoties:Old:quoties:guys will want to drive the wheels off a GXP as well.

GM just needs to get off their duffs, learn how to offer better colors and options, and start something in the marketing department.

Its great that there are a few old people out there who want this, and a few people out in rural areas who want to hot-rod it.

But the point is is that you are customers GM already has, and you are not enough in number to actually make this a profitable endeavor. Most other people in your age group are buying Avalons and such, 5 series even. The Charger, 300 C and Taurus are selling like suck, so I wouldn't try and steal their customers either.

So since we already have the old people and rural hot rodders wanting it, why do we need to market it there? GM needs to get some new customers for once: in the long term, I like to say, you are dead. The old customers will eventually die off or stop buying cars and then GM won't have anyone to buy its cars. That is why many imports are successful: they manage to attract and then retain younger buyers throughout their life. GM hasn't been collecting younger buyers recently and for good reason, so its about time they start.

What happens if they do not? Whats been happening: the buyers start to dry up, and eventually the company starts suffering. They can't last on SUVs and Trucks, and with rural populations dwindling in America, they can't keep selling to those customers either. Like I said before, the population of many midwestern states is declining, and people are heading for more urban areas. If GM can't attract customers there, the company is done with in North America.

And if you knew Generation Y (as we are called) in America, you know that the GXP is EXACTLY the car we won't buy. We'd rather have the L76 V8 and modify it, or have a safer car thats meant for point A to point B (which the G8 definitely isn't compared to say the Taurus or a Volvo). This generation won't be buying along the lines of the older one, not now or compared to their 70s and late 60s counterparts.

They don't have good memories of General Motors vehicles: their memories of them are from the 90s and 2000s, which have till now sucked. The only reason SUVs sold well was because they were big and gas was cheap: not so now. The younger audience is a must for GM, but they won't get there by regaling some glorious muscle car past or big SUVs. Top selling cars for the 20-30 crowd don't include any big SUVs or cars: they are crossovers, and mid-size to small cars. You can't believe that because they grew up watching rap stars in their Escalades that that is what they will buy: the reality just does not prove it.

And again, the reason these young buyers are so important is because the older people are all that GM is going to get, most people tend to get set in their ways past the age of 30 or so and won't buy another brand or outside the memetic that they have subscribed to.

Remember, this isn't about GM making a good car for those who already buy GM vehicles (looking down your "cars owned" lists in your signatures, its apparent if that many of you are GM only people), its about attracting new buyers. If GM cannot do that, its over. And its great that older buyers still do buy GM for whatever reasons, but they need to supply new reasons for a new generation to buy their vehicles. Because that generation, which is not rural, not suburban, and not the typical GM customer as we know them now, doesn't have reason to spend their money at anyone but an import manufacturer right now.

Scryer, everything you have said makes sense to me if GM only needs to sell 25-30 thousand a year. I have no idea how many they actually intend to sell but maybe you do. First about the Midwesterners, a lost customer is harder to get back than it is to attract a new customer. If you alienate the GM loyalists they won't be back for a long time. Those are the same people that currently buy the high margin trucks and have bought the cars for many of the down years. You would still need to cater to these folks a little.

About the volume customers that they need to convert, guys like me. I currently drive a Honda and the only domestic I have ever owned is a Focus that got used as a beater because for what I paid I practically stole it. I wouldn't have entertained buying a domestic car up until the GTO came out. The build quality just couldn't match the imports. With the GTO however it was real close. I chose my current Honda over the GTO only because I found it first. Now I need a trunk and a backseat, something the S2000 lacks. But I still want a car that is fun to drive. For me I will be cross shopping the G8 over a wide array of other cars and since I try to do alot of my own mechanical work used cars out of warranty don't bother me. In my case I am looking at the V8 M5, Audi S4, LS2 GTO, G35 or 37 sedan, 335 sedan, CTS-V, or as a stretch the rice twins, Evo or STi. Basically a rear or all wheel drive car with a decent amount of power and a seating for four.

We agree on who GM needs to attract. I guess I just thought that Pontiac was trying to sell a whole lot more of these than they really are. That is why I brought in the volume leaders at Honda and Toyota. If the G8 could attract the would be Accord, Camry, Avalon buyers, someone that still wants a little fun with their daily driver and the V6 G8 should fit the bill, the V8 even better. For me, I would prefer a manual G8 GXP, but would settle for a G8 manual because of the performance potential. Without a manual though I won't be buying one.

I like the executive delivery commercial idea. It kind of describes my current situation.

Pontiac is supposed to be the DRIVING excitement division. Obnoxious colors, body kits, and big spoilers do not add to the driving excitement. They may add some excitement for the people that look at colors, kits and spoilers to determine if a car is quick or handles well, and for those that put look-at-me appearance cues as a priority over performance. For me, I prefer to get my performance in a nice but subdued package. Please, leave out all the superfluous extras.

Amen Brother.

From my point of view the GMNA setup seems quite confusing. Here, i just walk into 1 Holden dealer and get a full cross range of Holdens that cover all bases. It seems if I was there I have to go to a Pontiac dealership for a "type" of GM vehicle and then go to A Chev dealer for another, and so on........Buick etc. We look at the commodore as covering several bases in 1 car....base model Omega=fleet, next level in luxury(no bold colours or kits) Berlina v6 and v8......then top of the line Calais (all the goodies, more chrome, different wheels but still having the 6 or 8 as an option. Then, if you want a performance version then the suspension, wilder colours and spoilers come into play as standard on the SV6 and SS v8. I see it covering all bases but I am not sure if that will be the case there.

I'm just saying that with as small of base as is obvious by GM's current lack of sales, then GM needs to do more than it has in the past to attract new customers. Like I said its great that there are midwesterners buying the car, but you are blind if you think you will carry GM as a company back to profitability. The only people who are trying to alienate GM however would be yourselves if you are offended that they try and reach new customers.

The "little fun to drive" and "suburban crawlers" don't often mix, and would be an small group of buyers at that. All I ask is you look at real market data and make decisions based on that: who more often then not buys RWD sedans? Its not old people. Who more often then not pays for sporty cars? Unless we are talking Porsche or the M5, S6, or E Class AMG, its not old people.

I hate to tell you this, but you are indeed blind if you think old, rural midwesterners are who GM needs to market this car to. IF GM creates another "old persons car," then it will fail.

And to "volume customers," many companies are more profitable than GM North America with smaller market share, and with American based production. Also, once again, most older people are set as to which brands they buy: it will take more than some doing to get Baby Boomers and Generation Xers that remember nothing but crappy quality General Motors Vehicles to start buying them over the import brands they trust now. Squeezing the few customers they have now is only going to go so far.

A new generation (which has different tastes and un-predetermined preferences) is coming to market, in droves. Gen Y will be bigger than Gen X and is nearly as large as the Baby Boomers. Already many have been in the market since 2003, but a majority won't be there until 2010. If the Big Three cannot win converts there, then all the old people will stop buying cars eventually, who will replace them? Hmm?

Just ask yourself: whenever you see an elderly couple driving around a Ford Crown Vic (which are usually as basic and profit-less as Ford can sell), ever wonder how long they have been driving it? Well the fact that they are certainly doesn't sell more cars, but it keeps Ford looking like an elderly brand and drives away younger customers. Ford is trying as hard as it can to ditch that image, if it doesn't, the company will tank.

How about something along the lines of Greg Norman saying, "How about a G8-Mate?"

Hey, if it's good enough for ESPN, it should work for the car brought to us by our friends from Down Under.

Greg Norman did advertising for Holden years ago and then he switched camps to another make.

Marketing isn't an all or none proposition. You can market to the echo-boomers, children of the baby boomers, and still play a little to the midwest and bible belt. They don't need to be able to bring GM back to profitability, they just need to keep buying as they have. If people in the Heartland stopped buying GM products they could single handedly be the death knell for the company. The midwestern people (some of whom have there own Gen Yers) need four door cars too, and they will have plenty of options to replace there aging Grand Prix and Bonneville models, or Ford Crown Vics for that matter. GM needs to try to keep them from going elsewhere. Again there is nothing wrong with appealing to new customers, which the G8 has the ability to do, but if you forget about the people who stuck by you in your rough times they will certainly forget about you.

This car isn't all about entirely new sales. You need to keep the people that bought the models the G8 replaces. There are roughly 60,000 people that won't be able to buy Grand Prix or Bonneville when they go into the showroom next year, and they need something new. An "old people's" car isn't created with marketing unless it is of the worst ever variety. Those cars are created by engineers and bean counters. Not even a campaign to rival that of the BMW Mini would lower the median age of the Crown Victoria owner. I see the G8 as an everymans saloon car priced in the high 20s to low 30s, competing with other cars of the same type. The fact that it performs as well as it does is just a bonus.

The G8 will be cheap enough where young executive types will be able to afford it but these young people don't neccesarily have the responsibilities that would require them to have four doors. If this is who you want to market too we are now comparing to Evo's and STi's. If the G8 can't outrun the rice twins young people won't care. I see too much of this with the young people all to concerned about Nurburgring and Tsukuba lap times rather than the fun factor, practicality, and styling. Jeremy Clarkson said it best when he was comparing the Monaro to the Evo 8, to paraphrase, 'If you want to have fun while going fast get the Monaro, if you just want to go fast buy the Evo.' This car is for a slightly more mature and responsible group of people. Until young people have the responsibilities that require a proper 4 door you can take home to Mommy it will be costly to convert them. Unless the G8 kicks ass in video game land. But then the car only becomes a sort of halo car.

To attract and retain young people in this day and age (they are even more fickle than there predecessors) you need to have a quality cheap car they can afford and have a model range that leads up from there. I don't know if the G5/G6 have the ability to do this since I have never driven them. I know for sure through my experience with Grand Ams and older Sunfires that without a quality entry level model you won't retain the younger customers. The G8 is the car they should aspire to, not the car you start them off in.