http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=123602?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..3 .*

I am posting this without specific reference to the fact that this test is on the “UTE” version, because I am going to focus on what I see as likely predictors of what I’d actually buy: A G8 GT with automatic.

The 0 – 60 time is a bit less quick than GM \ Pontiac is advertising.

But the Quarter Mile time of 13.8 is reasonable. Wonder what the trap speed was?

Anyway – this is the first US based test [ test by a US based publication ] I have seen that seems to tell me something about what a G8 GT will likely produce for acceleration numbers.

AND: “throttle blips on downshifts” I find very encouraging.

- Ray
Waiting, still . . .

Ray, you may want to look at this review from edmunds of the VE Commodore SS:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=120615#3

Quote on performance (6spd manual, right hand drive, driver used to left hand drive only):

Still, we didn't expect our Holden's blazing 5.3-second run to 60 mph. The quarter-mile streaked past in 14.1 seconds at 99.1 mph. But we swear there's more on the table, as left-handed shifts from 2nd gear to 3rd are difficult for U.S.-trained drivers.

Quote on handling:

Once we reached Holden's Lang Lang proving ground, the Commodore SS also shined on the smooth pavement of the test track. With only a hint of body roll, it pulled off a run through the slalom at 67.6 mph. That's a few ticks faster than the 2007 Infiniti G35 Sport (http://www.edmunds.com/used/2007/infiniti/g35/100822710/prices.html) and 2006 BMW 330i (http://www.edmunds.com/used/2006/bmw/3series/100530524/options.html), although slower than BMW's killer 335i. It was much the same story on the skid pad, where our Commodore SS's run at 0.87g nearly matched the 335i's effort of 0.88g.

That's awesome!

A bit off subject but...

Does anyone know if the U.S. bound auto offers rev matching for down shifts?

I used the :search: but it once again let me down with the 4 character minimum. Rev matching...???

The handling Edmunds rung out of it is the most astounding part of their review. I hope the car performs the same way on this side of the Pacific.

That's awesome!

A bit off subject but...

Does anyone know if the U.S. bound auto offers rev matching for down shifts?

I used the :search: but it once again let me down with the 4 character minimum. Rev matching...???

I have confirmed PAL.
I have seen no official reference to rev match on downshift from Pontiac...
But ( as I said above ) this statement from Edmunds gives me hope.

The really encouraging part is that Edmunds always gets slower acceleration numbers in their tests than Car and Driver, Motor Trend, and the rest.

If Edmunds says a car does a 6 second 0-60, you can bet Car and Driver will rate it 5.7 or even better.

OK, this may get some flames started, however it is not about getting something going, outside of more conversation.

What I am going to post is not some gut feeling, but real facts concerning car times in the quarter, in the real world.

When I bought my GTO the Pontiac brouchure stated an "immediate 13.0 @ 108" for the A4. Which means to me that anybody anywhere can pull up to the track and get a 13.0. Boy, was I naive.

The car rags all stated a 13.3 for the M6.

The car rags all stated about a 13.7/13.8 for the Mustang.

Now to the real world. The average GTO owner with an LS2 usually got mid to high 13's at the track. Some good drivers got to the 13.3 advertised, and some really good drivers got the 13.0, some even in the very high 12's under ideal conditions. Meaning a great track and negative DA. At Houston Raceway Park ( a real good track at about 20' above sea level) your average Mustang was turning 14.2's or in that area.

This is all bone stock.

My best bone stock time was around 13.6 with my GTO.

Yea, I was pissed off. Where was my immediate 13.0 GTO? Did I get a bad car?

No, I didn't get a bad car. For one thing I didn't know much about driving the car in the quarter. It took several trips to the track, and I learned a lot about cars and driving from some of the guys posting on LS1GTO to help me out. To get to 12.997 it took a complete tune, Nitto drag radials, and HRJ driving. It basically cost me $1,000 to get my "immediate 13.0" that Pontiac told me I would get.

My point being that there are a lot of variables.

A car a couple of hundred pounds heavier than the GTO, 40 less HP, my guess is right at 13.8/14.0 for the car rags, real world by regular drivers about 14.2/14.4. I also feel it will take more than a tune and catback to get the G8 into the 12's.

Jim -

You will receive no flames from me.

I read your analysis & experiences with upgrades to your GTO posted elsewhere.

I can certainly understand the disappointment with real world vs GM \ Pontiac acceleration claims.

GM & Ford seem to have historically published acceleration numbers that were the absolute best that a true professional could obtain under absolutely ideal conditions. Where typical German manufacturers ( Porsche & BMW in particular ) seem to post numbers that a reasonably competent amateur could meet or beat, under conditions more representative of ‘the real world’. That 13.0 number does seem rather wildly optimistic, even for GM. Given a curb weight of over 3700#s for the GTO, I would not expect that even the 3.46:1 final drive would fully counter the additional weight, compared to a Corvette – with closer to 3200#s. And a 3:15:1 ( optional ) final drive ratio.

GM \ Chevy generally appears to have backed off that strategy ( ? ) of exaggeration somewhat, as Corvette owners dedicated to this activity are now typically posting better quarter mile times than the ‘official’ numbers.

In any case, I agree that 13.0 is not going to happen in a stock 2008 G8 GT A6.

The only GTO A4 test I recall seeing with numbers is:

GTO 350 HP \ 365 TQ
4 speed automatic ( MT test )
Weight 3725
Final drive 3.46:1
Quarter:
13.85 @ 101.41
0 – 60: 5.4

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0405_sport_coupe_comparison/specs_price.html


As I have posted elsewhere, for the G8 GT, with slightly more HP & TQ than the 5.7L GTO, being slightly heavier but with the A6 transmission:

“I think that the G8 will offer a slight improvement, all else being roughly equal, ‘stock vs stock’ & ‘automatic vs automatic’ due to gearing.

Of course, all else is not really equal.

For example, I believe that the G8 GT’s A6 trans. has a deeper \ more aggressive first gear than the A4 in the 4L65-E in the GTO:

[ G8 A6 = 4.03 first & 2.92 final drive = 11.78 to 1 ]
[ GTO A4 = 3.06 first & 3.46 final drive = 10.59 to 1 ]

And the closer spacing between ratios = less RPM drop at each shift – providing an opportunity for somewhat better overall acceleration.

Though the peak HP number is down in the G8, the TQ numbers are very close between the GTO 6.0L and the G8 V8 6.0 – so close that I believe a ‘stock’ G8 recording mid-13 second quarters is at least possible. My current ‘bet’ is 13.5 or 13.6 or 13.7.”

And I’m guessing that we are now roughly 30 days from seeing published independent tests of production G8 GTs in the monthlies & on Edmunds, etc.

Until then – all is speculation . . .

- Ray
Willing to help with that testing, for a very modest fee . . .

Addendum – gearing:

Second gear in the GTO w/A4 is 1.63:1.
Second gear in the G8 GT w/A6 is 2.36:1.
Overall, the GTO gearing in second is 5.64:1 ( 1.63 * 3.46 )
And the G8 GT overall in second is 6.89:1 ( 2.36 * 2.92 )

6.89 vs 5.64 constitutes about 20% better leverage, or ‘dig’ for the G8, compared to the GTO, once the shift to second gear is executed.

So ( speculation mode still = // on // ) my guess is that the ‘seat-of-the-pants’ perception of acceleration in the G8 V8, in second gear will be that it is quicker.

And ( in absolute terms ) that it will feel ‘quick’......

This is the results of a 2005 M6 v SRT8 Charger.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0512_sport_coupes_comparison/engine_handling.html

"Objectively, yes. The GTO outgunned the SRT8 from 0 to 60 (4.7 seconds versus 5.0), 0 to 100 (11.7 versus 11.9), and in the quarter mile (13.3 seconds at 105.9 mph versus 13.5 at 106.3)."

Car and Driver got a 13.3 out of another M6.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/13168/21st-century-muscle-cars-results.html

Yes Old Goat, I totally agree with you and rayainsw. And I too enjoyed that in depth post about Old Goat's timeline & mods and what 1/4 times you got out of them.

I cannot wait to try this car out in stock form. And I am hoping for mid to high 13's as well.

This is a good G8 forum, as I've been on a GP one http://www.clubgp.com/ when, I had my 2004 GTP.

It's nice to learn from other people in the same boat as you.

:popcorn2:

The part where they talk about the Charger having a sound that is more muscular than the GTO is surprising. My dad's LS1 is loud, mean sounding and has enough torque to waste just about any car that it comes across.

I have confirmed PAL.
I have seen no official reference to rev match on downshift from Pontiac...
But ( as I said above ) this statement from Edmunds gives me hope.

Odd... I totally missed that at the end of your post and all together on the review...:nuts:

I hope it does... If the manual doesn't come out like some are saying then at least that gives me hope.

Still waiting for the 2009...:sneaky:

There has been much speculation here & elsewhere about the G8’s performance.
[ While we ever so patiently wait for actual cars to appear. ]

I happened to be informed that my local Jaguar dealer had received ( likely purchased at auction ) a 2005 S-Type R.

I have long appreciated this Cat as a performance sedan with rather brisk acceleration & well sorted suspension – as well as many amenities often found in $50K plus automobiles.

What does this have to do with the G8, one might reasonable ask?
Hang in a moment . . .

So, I was ‘in the neighborhood’ on Saturday, and I stopped in to look it over.

It had less than 12,000 miles and except for a little ‘road rash’ on the right rear wheel, it appeared to be in ‘as new’ \ mint condition.

So when they offered a test drive, I accepted.
( Oh, please, don’t throw me in THAT briar patch. )

I have driven several Jaguars, including a couple of XJs and a couple of S-Types as long weekend rentals when treating myself. And I came within 2 or 3 thousand dollars of buying a ‘demo’ 2005 S-Type R almost exactly 3 years ago.

Here is what I find interesting:

For this ( very low mileage, ‘mint condition’ ) 2005 S-Type R, V8 with nearly 400 HP & TQ, RWD, aggressive sport suspension & tires, six speed automatic, and more – and with a curb weight very similar to the G8 V8 - the Dealer is asking $35K. Original MSRP was something like $55K
[ [ edit: Base MSRP was $58,995 (includes destination and delivery charges) ]],
as equipped, though there was ‘marketing support’ of $7,500 to the Dealer, 3 years ago, when I was negotiating price on that ‘demo’ I mentioned.

And a [ brand new ] G8 GT, with all initially available options \ packages, will carry a list price of approx. $32.7K. At that MSRP ( and, I presume, an actual transaction price a couple of grand less ) the G8 GT appears to include everything I “need”, and nearly everything I want in a new sport sedan.

Big Honkin’ V8 – check.
6 speed automatic with manumatic functionality – check.
RWD – check.
Good F\R weight distribution - check.
Heated leather sport seats - check.
Sunroof – check.
Sport suspension - check.
Appropriately aggressive tires - check.
Good looking, to my eyes – check.

This particular Jaguar model & example has much of what I ( expect to ) find very attractive about the G8:

Seamless delivery of [[ great steaming piles of ]] Torque.
Reasonable cruising gas mileage.
( The S-Type R has very similar transmission gearing & overall gearing & cruising RPM in top gear to a G8 GT w/6L80 automatic. The EPA sticker on a 2007 S-Type R was 17 \ 23 & the 2008 is now 15 \ 22. )
Excellent upshift & downshift quality – very quick but very well managed shifts, at any throttle opening. ( That ZF 6-speed automatic is a jewel. )
Excellent handling & superb ride, despite relatively low profile \ aggressive tires.
Very comfortable & supportive seats.
Well sorted controls and clear instrumentation.
A sense of both agility & stability.

This particular example happened to have the GPS Navigation system. But ( of course ) no HUD is available – on any Jaguar.

Now, with the G8 being several years ‘newer’ in design & development than the S-Type, I have hopes that the chassis will offer roughly similar dynamics to the Jag. In fact, interestingly, the S-Type’s replacement is scheduled for first US deliveries roughly when G8s will likely also start to appear here.

And that the GM six speed automatic will provide roughly similar shift characteristics to Jag’s ZF.

And that the G8’s powertrain will include the ‘rev match on downshift’ technology that I find so seductive on BMW’s 335, for example. And GM’s \ Caddy’s own new CTS.

And that the G8 GT’s V8 will supply a very similar acceleration feel.

All that, at ( assuming the G8 is as great as the hype I have read ) a relative bargain price, compared to any remotely similar ( new ) Jaguar – or BMW, or whatever RWD V8 350+ HP Sport Sedan you’d care to name.

Will the G8 actually be a bargain?

Will it be ‘better’ ( for me ) than a used S-Type R?

We shall see . . .

I think it will quite clearly be a better bargain ( for me ) than any ** NEW ** Jaguar or BMW or ??

But I won’t really know until I have driven one or 2 & read a few reviews.
- Ray
Quite clearly bored this lunch hour . . .

Either one sounds interesting. I wish I had the money to face that dilemma. Good for you!

I presume you would also get much better dealer treatment with the Jaguar but spend a lot more on routine maintenance and get hit really hard if anything breaks. Unless you have a fantastic Pontiac dealership you won't get treated as well, but you get the full factory warranty and cheaper maintenance.

From the official specs listed at Yahoo Autos, the S-Type R gets side curtain airbags and electronic stability control. So I imagine safety will be similar between the two.

The S-Type R is listed at 4075 pounds while the G8 GT is supposed to be around 3900. That will offset some of the extra Jaguar horsepower, but probably not all of it. The G8 is also much wider outside and inside, with a bigger trunk and 2 and a half inches of extra second row leg room. If space matters to you, the G8 wins big.

But as much as I'm a GM fan, I doubt even the brand spanking new G8 is going to offer the comfort, classy interior, and luxury treatment of a top notch Jaguar. I'd get the G8 anyway, but I respect whichever way you go.