Employee pricing is gone, expiring at midnight on 9/30/08. Add to that the $880 price increase and thG8 pricing is moving ever closer to its competitors which had to this point been several thousands higher.

New program:
$1000 cash back on 2008's OR 0% APR for up to 48 months. Regular rate for 60 months appears to be 6.9% If you are payment shopping teh cashback is in your favor, if you can afford a shorter term then the 0% is in your favor.

I hope they extend the 0% to 60 or 72 months :wink2:

Don't worry the auto industry just reported piss poor number, AGAIN.

They will have no choice but to offer incentives. Just wait.

Don't worry the auto industry just reported piss poor number, AGAIN.

They will have no choice but to offer incentives. Just wait.

Just announced on CNBC, Ford September sales down 34.8%! GM and Toyota to follow later in the day. Main reason, no credit available to finance sales. Ummmmm, I think we ought to argue more about the pork we can add to the financial loan package in front of our Congressional members, don't you?!?! You know like the excise tax break for varnishless arrows contained on page 300! Yes, this simple package is now up to more than 300 pages in the Senate version! It just gets better!:cursin::The_Villagers::banghead::mad:

GM just announced September sales.........down 19%. Their stock is up on the numbers as the "experts" had predicted a better than 20% drop! So they beat the numbers!:wink2:

How can GMAC make any money when it lends at 0%? Will the Federal government need to bail out GMAC and GM in the near future?

GM just announced September sales.........down 19%. Their stock is up on the numbers as the "experts" had predicted a better than 20% drop! So they beat the numbers!:wink2:
Thanks to us, of course!

Thanks to us, of course!

One would like to think those of us that contribute/talk up this car have put our .02 worth in their sales!:biggrin2: I know I've talked my dealer into buying more, even thou they are selling slooooooow!

How can GMAC make any money when it lends at 0%? Will the Federal government need to bail out GMAC and GM in the near future?

Because GM pays GMAC to lend at 0%. GMAC does not lose a dime on any transaction. That's why GM no longer owns it 100% Go three months without paying your mortgage and in about 3 years you might have to find a new place to live, go three months without paying your car and you are walking. Most houses cannot get hauled away by repo at 2 AM.

GM just announced September sales.........down 19%. Their stock is up on the numbers as the "experts" had predicted a better than 20% drop! So they beat the numbers!:wink2:

I quote myself to correct myself. CNBC just corrected themselves, GM down 16%. Toyota down 29.5% for September. Chrysler still trying to find the abacus to add up their numbers, all both of them!:laugh:

Of couse things are diff now days, but what I do/did is go through my wifes credit union and can usually get a low int. rate, about 4.9 for 72 months for example. If you finance outside the dealership, it is like paying cash to them, and you can then still get the repates...

GM just announced September sales.........down 19%. Their stock is up on the numbers as the "experts" had predicted a better than 20% drop! So they beat the numbers!:wink2:

http://jalopnik.com/5057594/gm-september-sales-drop-156

General Motors reported a 15.6% decline in September sales versus the same period a year earlier. While still posting a decline, GM topped analysts expectations of an approximately 25% drop. GM was hurt by the same market forces affecting other manufacturers, but the company likely stemmed some of the bleeding by extending its "Employee Pricing for Everyone" incentive through the end of September. More sales numbers as we receive them.

Because GM pays GMAC to lend at 0%. GMAC does not lose a dime on any transaction. That's why GM no longer owns it 100% Go three months without paying your mortgage and in about 3 years you might have to find a new place to live, go three months without paying your car and you are walking. Most houses cannot get hauled away by repo at 2 AM.

Also, if you miss one payment then your rate skyrockets...

How can GMAC make any money when it lends at 0%? Will the Federal government need to bail out GMAC and GM in the near future?

The automakers just received 25 Billion in low interest loans. :drink:

The automakers just received 25 Billion in low interest loans.

Really from where?

Really from where?


From you John Q Taxpayer.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081001/bs_nm/us_usa_congress_funding

From you John Q Taxpayer.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081001/bs_nm/us_usa_congress_funding

According to the article:

The bill sets aside $7.5 billion in taxpayer funds needed to guarantee $25 billion in low-interest loans to help General Motors Corp, Ford Motor Co and Chrysler LLC produce more fuel-efficient cars and trucks.



and

Major automakers have said that will require up to $100 billion in combined new investment to retool factories and invest in new technology, including next-generation battery-packs for electric vehicles.


Doesn't sound to me like that money will have any direct impact on the cost of vehicles to the consumer.

The automakers just received 25 Billion in low interest loans.

Really from where?

From you John Q Taxpayer.

Do some more reasearch.

Do some more reasearch.

ok :drink:

wish they would do some incentive on the 2009s. The dealer next to my office has 5 of them sitting. I would buy one but I feel that as soon as I do they will offer 0% for 60 or a $2000 rebate and I will be pissed. I pretty much decided to hold on and get one for myself for Christmas.

wish they would do some incentive on the 2009s. The dealer next to my office has 5 of them sitting. I would buy one but I feel that as soon as I do they will offer 0% for 60 or a $2000 rebate and I will be pissed. I pretty much decided to hold on and get one for myself for Christmas.


Let them sit. April/May is the best time to buy a car. Most of the model year end clearances happen at that time. Wait 6 months and you'll save $3-5k.

If you ask nicely, they may find a means for you to get the employee pricing. That is how I bought mine in July. They admitted that their inventory was slow and wanted to move metal.

Let them sit. April/May is the best time to buy a car. Most of the model year end clearances happen at that time. Wait 6 months and you'll save $3-5k.

I took a G8GT for a spin a few week ago, and after the drive I told him I wanted one, but I wasn't ready to buy until after the new year, and even then I wouldn't be in a big hurry. In January, I'll have him order/dealer trade for the car I want, and when the incentives look right, I'll buy it.

The dealer told me he expects Pontiac will offer some good incentives for March Madness.

I'm looking forward to spring!!

Most dealers have "conquest" cash for owners of other makes (non-GM). It is usually around $1k, but it is up to them if they offer it in the deal. All you have to provide is a current registration with your name on it for another brand. You don't have to be trading the vehicle nor does it have to road worthy at the time.

Not 100% sure that this is still a current program, but it was back a few years ago.

Established/repeat customers usually get the nod, but first timers can also get it. It really depends on what you are interested in and how bad the dealership needs to move a vehicle. After today on Wall Street, they need to move anything! (I refuse to call and check the balance on my 401k-surely it will go back up after the election, please?)

Best of luck getting a G8.

Regards,

Most dealers have "conquest" cash for owners of other makes (non-GM). It is usually around $1k, but it is up to them if they offer it in the deal. All you have to provide is a current registration with your name on it for another brand. You don't have to be trading the vehicle nor does it have to road worthy at the time.

Not 100% sure that this is still a current program, but it was back a few years ago.


It is not as you presented.

For the last several months though, residents of California, Florida and certain parts of neighboring states have been eligible for a Conquest Bonus of $1,000 if their household has a 1999 or newer non-GM vehicle.

Because GM pays GMAC to lend at 0%. GMAC does not lose a dime on any transaction. That's why GM no longer owns it 100% Go three months without paying your mortgage and in about 3 years you might have to find a new place to live, go three months without paying your car and you are walking. Most houses cannot get hauled away by repo at 2 AM.


GMAC isn't losing a dime??? This article about GMAC indicates there may be trouble ahead for them:

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/smartspending/archive/2008/10/13/car-buyer-alert-gmac-is-requiring-a-700-credit-score.aspx

Interesting article, but even more interesting comments. Never ceases to amaze me how many ignorant people there are out there.:slap:

anyone think GM may make the 72 month @ 0 after this month, if sales still hadnt picked up?

anyone think GM may make the 72 month @ 0 after this month, if sales still hadnt picked up?

Anyone's guess, but my opinion is that with the recession just about official at this point, sales will continue to decline and GM will be forced to increase incentives dramatically. Either that or they'll have to declare bankruptcy.

sooner rather than later?


GM: Better off bankrupt
The automaker is in trouble, but even Chapter 11 would be better than hooking up with Chrysler.
By Alex Taylor III, senior editor
October 15, 2008: 9:04 AM ET

GM will need to raise $10 billion to $15 billion to stay liquid through next year.

NEW YORK (Fortune) -- GM certainly is keeping a close eye on its cash these days.

One supplier reports he is now getting paid 60 days after he presents an invoice - not the 30 days he was used to. Worse, the clock doesn't start ticking until after the bills get approved in Detroit - and then sent to Arizona for processing.

Next thing you know, GM will be inflating its float by cutting supplier checks on banks in Fiji that will take weeks to clear.

It is a measure of GM's desperation that it is reported to be considering a linkup with Chrysler to get access to Chrysler's cash so it can remain in business. The idea has provoked nearly universal skepticism among analysts and GM watchers.
....
So what's an ailing automotive giant to do?

GM has the wrong products to sell into a shrinking market and can offer little or nothing in the way of financing to its customers.

To remain liquid through next year, it needs to raise $10 billion to $15 billion through a combination of internal measures, borrowing and asset sales. That's next to impossible these days. With some of its bonds selling for less than 50 cents on the dollar, the cost of new debt would be prohibitive. Not even vulture investors are clamoring to buy shuttered parts or assembly plants. And Hummer, which GM is trying to shed, does not appear to be the next iconic American brand. Harley-Davidson it isn't.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/14/news...ion=2008101509

This all sux! :( Now, when vehicle manufacturers (specially GM) are making great cars with great powerplants our economy is in the weeds!

It'll be back, GM isn't going anywhere (unless they are hiding stuff like the banks did). Oil is down to under $75/barrel and wholesale gas is under $1.80/gallon for November delivery. Stock market was even up today over 400pts, even with lousy retail sales reports and lousy manufacturing reports! Look at the bright side, gasoline prices are still 20% higher than last year, while oil prices are down from last year. Can't wait for the gasoline prices to catch up!:wink2:

anyone have any ideas on what the next wave of incentives on G8's will be?

anyone have any ideas on what the next wave of incentives on G8's will be?

The current October incentive programs end the last selling day of October, which is November 3rd.

Then there will be November's incentives which will run until their scheduled end dates.

At some point in time posters/banners will go up and it will be Red Tag Sale time again, which is GM's year end sale name.

The total unkown, is if November is better than October or December is better than both.

The current October incentive programs end the last selling day of October, which is November 3rd.

Then there will be November's incentives which will run until their scheduled end dates.

At some point in time posters/banners will go up and it will be Red Tag Sale time again, which is GM's year end sale name.

The total unkown, is if November is better than October or December is better than both.

do you think it's worth it to wait until Nov. 3rd ? You think the cash discounts will be higher?

The dealer told me he expects Pontiac will offer some good incentives for March Madness.

I usually just ignore what someone at a dealer says, but this will probably be true.

With the way things are going, we might see 0% 60-72 sooner than I thought.

0% of 60 months and 2000 cash back, I am there. :driving:

0% of 60 months and 2000 cash back, I am there. :driving:
that is precisely what I am waiting on!

0% of 60 months and 2000 cash back, I am there. :driving:

oh wow. if that happened my manparts would blow into confetti.
oh if that were only true

oh wow. if that happened my manparts would blow into confetti.
oh if that were only true

hahaha, nice.

Hopefully we get 2G's cashback on the 2009's starting Nov. 3rd. I want my maverick silver!

I believe their offering 1.5k on 09's and 2.5k on 08's now?

wish they would do some incentive on the 2009s. The dealer next to my office has 5 of them sitting. I would buy one but I feel that as soon as I do they will offer 0% for 60 or a $2000 rebate and I will be pissed. I pretty much decided to hold on and get one for myself for Christmas.

I think the problem is that its price point is just over where it needs to be in the current market. Pontiac is not yet considered a goto brand since it has spent the last decade or two in limbo as to its purpose (being no longer the poorman's Cadillac). The moves the brand has made to define itself on its own terms in recent years is paying off but very slowly. I am seeing a lot of newish G6's on the road, which is saying a lot because I'm in Silicon Valley (land of BMW's, Toyotas and Hondas)

When I told my brother-in-law I was considering the G8, he asked smuggly "What about reliability?" and then suggesting buying a BMW instead. He was trying to say "Your stupid for thinking of buying American" in his round about way. Of course, my thought is that he was kinda foolish for recommending a BMW. Twice the money for the same level of car, not much better historic reliability, AND much higher service (both parts and labor) costs once it is off warrenty? Besides that, even though the G8 is taking styling queues from BMW, it is certainly more unique and in my opinion better looking than BMW in many ways.

I think if the G8 is going to be a success in the current market, GM is going to have to market it as direct competitor with Acura and BMW, and even try to get it's high trim version considered as "Near Luxury" (it is close to qualifying for that status right now, though Pontiac needs to do a little better job with fit and finish before they can claim that classification). I've not seen one commercial for the G8, nor magazine ad, or online ad for it. On the flip side, I will tell you that I've literially been asked about it by someone different practically every day since I've bought it (over a month now), sometimes multiple times in a day.

The problem right now with G8's current high trim price is that I can get an Acura TL for the same price. Acura has better quality, in terms of fit and finish, predicted reliability, interior look and feel, and amenities. For G8 to be at this price range successfully, they need to work on these three factors and make substancial improvements, particularly in the fit and finish of exterior body parts, front dash board/consol, and the center consol.

For example, the glove compartment door feels cheezy and second rate. It doesn't close to a dead stop and lock into place. It moves a bit when latched shut. This is not good when considering the quality of the car.

Another example is that the seam around the hood (when closed) is inconsistant. Along the front, the gap between the hood and the front fender is way too large (almost looks like it cannot be latched 100% shut). Little things like these are going to make a difference in the mid $30K range where they are directly competing with Acura and Infiniti.

It should be noted that I traded in my 2003 Acura TL-S for the 2009 G8 GT, and I'm glad I did. Others looking to trade in their older Acuras may not even know to look at Pontiac.

I believe their offering 1.5k on 09's and 2.5k on 08's now?

you sure about that?
i know they were offering $1000 back on 08s last i saw

Sorry, to be more specific. I believe this is in conjunction with the Supplier discount only.

Sorry, to be more specific. I believe this is in conjunction with the Supplier discount only.

No it is not.

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7105 / Bonus Cash for Supplier Pricing thread.

The Bonus Cash for GM Supplier Discount Pricing Program eligible buyers, only covers the 2008 and 2009 G6 as far as Pontiac models are concerned.

There is a Purchase Bonus Cash Program (2008 G8s $2,500 / 2009 G8s $1,500) that is available to all retail buyers, not just those that are GM Supplier Discount Pricing Program eligible.

i need 0% errrrrrrr. :)

No it is not.

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7105 / Bonus Cash for Supplier Pricing thread.

The Bonus Cash for GM Supplier Discount Pricing Program eligible buyers, only covers the 2008 and 2009 G6 as far as Pontiac models are concerned.

There is a Purchase Bonus Cash Program (2008 G8s $2,500 / 2009 G8s $1,500) that is available to all retail buyers, not just those that are GM Supplier Discount Pricing Program eligible.

Started 10/17 and scheduled to expire 11/3. Just got back from reading the fine print at the dealer. Additional money if you are coming off an eligible GMAC or even non-GMAC lease. Do you think they will extend this past just the two weeks. Now I'm wondering if the additional $1000 plus price diff between years is worth an aftermarket sunroof hassle.

Good and bad news, my car ius on a truck, but it's the wrong red. Might arriove before 11/3, might not. Inventory search on Monday.

Now if you are in the market for a basic 1500 truck you really can get a free Aveo with the truck adding up all the above and below table discounts.

I'm ready to get an '09 G8 GT. Can someone give me a link where it says $1500 of 09s? I want to be able to show the dealer. The only incentives I see are for the 08. Thanks

The dealer had as of 10/17 a full printout of all program changes and upgrades. The incentives won't show up for a while, if they do, on pontiac.com,, shoot can't even directly search for 09's, have to improvise. Trust me (and Small Dealer), I viewed the printout, even touched it to be sure it wasn't a dream, $1500 cash to purchaser on all 2009 G8s and $2500 on all 2008 G8s. No GXPs will qualify cause none are shipped yet.

Flash: at least the $2500 on 08s is here http://www.pontiac.com/current-offers/
but th esite is responding poorly as usual, telling me my zip code is invalid and disallowing input oof any other zip to work around.

I waited to get 2009, and I'm glad I did. I got it on the GM employee pricing. I prefer the 2009. The Pontiac.com site did allow me to look at 2009's a while back, but not now. They be having issues with clearing those out because people are going for the 2009's. ??

I waited to get 2009, and I'm glad I did. I got it on the GM employee pricing. I prefer the 2009. The Pontiac.com site did allow me to look at 2009's a while back, but not now. They be having issues with clearing those out because people are going for the 2009's. ??

The only way I have found to see
the $1,500 off on 2009s is to locate
one at a dealer that interests you,
and enter your state - to see the discount -
for example -
you can copy & paste this URL into your browser:

http://www.gmbuypower.com/ws/nvlWindowSticker.vs?gmMilitary=&makeId=002&model=G8%20Sedan&makeDescrip=Pontiac&partnerID=900001&nameplateids=004^002^012^&sellingSource=16&year=2009&preferredColor=&userType=GMBP&optionCode=&typeDescrip=%20%20%20&searchType=0&modelId=085&VIN=6G2EC57Y19L162812&zip=30096&styleDescrip=GT%20Sedan&pvc=208&make=pg&subModelId=251&iPi=5&preferredOptions=&subModel=&mmc=2EC69&brand=G8%20Sedan&styleId=GT%20Sedan&style=GT%20Sedan&fPi=5&vehicleModel=/images/gmbp/16002/vehicle/2009/med/2009251.gif&type=%20%20%20&&dealerName=LOU%20SOBH%20HUMMER&dealerURL=http://www.lousobhhummer.com/en_US/HomePage&distance=0.0&dealerStreet=2473%20PLEASANT%20HILL%20RD&dealerCity=DULUTH&dealerRegionCode=GA&dealerPostalcode=30096-4325&bac=152011.0&dealerBpManagerName=Alex%20Sobh&dealerBpPhone=(770)%20232-0099&nameplateids=004^002^012^007^

The only way I have found to see
the $1,500 off on 2009s is to locate
one at a dealer that interests you,
and enter your state - to see the discount -
for example -
you can copy & paste this URL into your browser:

http://www.gmbuypower.com/ws/nvlWindowSticker.vs?gmMilitary=&makeId=002&model=G8%20Sedan&makeDescrip=Pontiac&partnerID=900001&nameplateids=004^002^012^&sellingSource=16&year=2009&preferredColor=&userType=GMBP&optionCode=&typeDescrip=%20%20%20&searchType=0&modelId=085&VIN=6G2EC57Y19L162812&zip=30096&styleDescrip=GT%20Sedan&pvc=208&make=pg&subModelId=251&iPi=5&preferredOptions=&subModel=&mmc=2EC69&brand=G8%20Sedan&styleId=GT%20Sedan&style=GT%20Sedan&fPi=5&vehicleModel=/images/gmbp/16002/vehicle/2009/med/2009251.gif&type=%20%20%20&&dealerName=LOU%20SOBH%20HUMMER&dealerURL=http://www.lousobhhummer.com/en_US/HomePage&distance=0.0&dealerStreet=2473%20PLEASANT%20HILL%20RD&dealerCity=DULUTH&dealerRegionCode=GA&dealerPostalcode=30096-4325&bac=152011.0&dealerBpManagerName=Alex%20Sobh&dealerBpPhone=(770)%20232-0099&nameplateids=004^002^012^007^

How much do you think you should be able to get an '09 w/ premium package for out the door? I have a supplier discount, but I may be able to find an employee number too.

I had an '08 ready and as soon as the 2500 rebate came out, it was already gone on a dealer trade.

I have a supplier discount, but I may be able to find an employee number too.

There is more to it than just getting a number. In order to use the employee pricing (GMS) the employee is going to have to call their rep and get a number. Then the car would have to be titled in a relative of the employee's name for at least 6 months. Each employee gets 6 numbers per calender year.

Last month when GM was running the "Employee Pricing for Everyone" sale I was told by a saleswoman at the local inept Pontiac Dealer that the "Everyone" price was actually the same as the Supplier and Military discounts and not actual GMS. Now, I have real doubts about her knowledge, like many salespeople, but that is another story for another time.

Sales people are always looking for excuses to get out of making a decent deal. The car market is cut thorat right now, instead of doing the right thing, the sales people are looking for the next sale and not the long haul.

That is the case more often than not unfortunately. I will say though that I am middle of getting my Wife a Saturn Vue and the sales people there are friendly and know their stuff. It really has been a breath of fresh air after dealing with the douche bags at VW, Honda, Toyota, Nissan and the afore mentioned Pontiac.

FWIW, Edmunds.com shows the following TMV for a 2009 G8 GT with Premium and Sport:

MSRP: $34,090
Invoice: $32,040
TMV: $33,388

Less Incentive: $1500 cash back from Pontiac

Total TMV: $31,888.

(TMV is Edmunds' True Market Value, which indicates what others are currently paying for the car. This appears to be fairly close, since when they had GMS pricing, the TMV for the same car was close to $30,800.)

It looks like this incentive/rebate is from 10/16 to 11/03.

I'm glad I got mine when they had GMS pricing. :)

68 rustang she is wrong i got pricing both ways,she lied.

I figured she was. That particular dealer is generally incompetent, she was exceptionally so.

Well today, every dealer I talk to is offering me the GMS pricing plus the 1500 off bonus cash. For an '09 with premium package I am looking at $30,704.97 out the door (this includes tax, title, and plates). I have about 4 dealers offering me the exact same price and none of them will come under the other. They said something like, 'GM won't let them sell the car for less unless it is a demo'. Does anybody know if there is any truth to this? Should I be able to talk them under that price or is that GM law?

Do you guys think the rebates will keep getting better or do you think this is a pretty good deal? I know Nov. 3rd is the next rebates, but hey they could be less than what there is now. Highly doubtful, but what would be better?

Well today, every dealer I talk to is offering me the GMS pricing plus the 1500 off bonus cash. For an '09 with premium package I am looking at $30,704.97 out the door (this includes tax, title, and plates). I have about 4 dealers offering me the exact same price and none of them will come under the other. They said something like, 'GM won't let them sell the car for less unless it is a demo'. Does anybody know if there is any truth to this? Should I be able to talk them under that price or is that GM law?

Do you guys think the rebates will keep getting better or do you think this is a pretty good deal? I know Nov. 3rd is the next rebates, but hey they could be less than what there is now. Highly doubtful, but what would be better?

I call shennanigans on the "won't let them sell for less unless it is a demo" line. The dealer I got my car from was willing to sell me a 2009 G8 GT with Premium and Sport for $28,900 last month and it wasn't a demo. It had to be the specific car on their lot, but it was not PBM, so I passed on it and had them find me one.

I call shennanigans on the "won't let them sell for less unless it is a demo" line.

Then that just shows that you do not know what you are talking about.


The terms of the 2009 Model Year GM Employee Purchase Program require dealerships to sell at and eligible buyers to buy at the GM Employee Purchase program ("GMS") price listed on the invoice.

romeyjdogg has previously posted that they thought they would be able to be eligible for the GM Employee Purchase Program.

So it appears the dealerships have been correct in quoting prices based on that.

GM does not set the prices. The dealers do. If a dealer wants to sell you a car for ten cents they can.

GM only set the MSRP.

Again, dealers will say anything, this is part of GM's problem. Bad point of sale. I know BMW does not allow that, as my wife is on her third 3 series. BMW has set guidelines for sales and service.

Feck the dealers and their excuses. Just let them all sit, with no sales, they will be forced to lower prices. If you don't need a car right this second, wait. They will be coming down again. I can not wait until the Red Tag sale, I am dying to see the prices. Last year they were under Employee pricing, plus incentives.

GM does not set the prices. The dealers do. If a dealer wants to sell you a car for ten cents they can.

GM only set the MSRP.



Another voice of the uninformed.

I call shennanigans on the "won't let them sell for less unless it is a demo" line. The dealer I got my car from was willing to sell me a 2009 G8 GT with Premium and Sport for $28,900 last month and it wasn't a demo. It had to be the specific car on their lot, but it was not PBM, so I passed on it and had them find me one.

They were offering you $28,900 with tax, title and plates?

I have had three dealers tell me that they can't deal below the GMS pricing because of some contract they have with GM. So that's not true?

I'm trying to deal with them on the warranties now since they won't budge on the prices. Anybody get any good warranty extensions in their deal?

Then that just shows that you do not know what you are talking about.


The terms of the 2009 Model Year GM Employee Purchase Program require dealerships to sell at and eligible buyers to buy at the GM Employee Purchase program ("GMS") price listed on the invoice.

romeyjdogg has previously posted that they thought they would be able to be eligible for the GM Employee Purchase Program.

So it appears the dealerships have been correct in quoting prices based on that.

Then the dealer who quoted me that $28,900 price for a brand new, off the lot, G8 GT with Premium and Sport was doing so illegally per GM? I still have the quote with me, and it is well below GMS pricing.

The post I quoted and replied to said that as of today, dealers were willing to sell him cars at GMS pricing but not go below it unless the car was a demo. Based on my experience, that clearly wasn't the case, so I was calling shennanigans.

If you have documentation somewhere from GM that says "no dealer shall sell a car under GMS pricing unless the car is a demo unit", then I'm obvoiusly wrong, but then, that means that dealer who was offering me that car was in violation of that. :)

Then the dealer who quoted me that $28,900 price for a brand new, off the lot, G8 GT with Premium and Sport was doing so illegally per GM? I still have the quote with me, and it is well below GMS pricing.


You also would have been placing your GM Employee Purchase Program Status, as well as your employment with GM in harms way by signing an inacurate VPP Agreement and Pricing Sheet.

Then that just shows that you do not know what you are talking about.


The terms of the 2009 Model Year GM Employee Purchase Program require dealerships to sell at and eligible buyers to buy at the GM Employee Purchase program ("GMS") price listed on the invoice.

romeyjdogg has previously posted that they thought they would be able to be eligible for the GM Employee Purchase Program.

So it appears the dealerships have been correct in quoting prices based on that.

Actually, the deal that I got for my car is a prime example of a dealer selling me a car below GMS pricing. On 9/29, the second to last day of the GMS promotion, I got:

09 G8 GT Premium & Sport
MSRP: $33,210
Sell Price: $30,080

According to people at the time, that sell price was $500 below GMS pricing. So, unless they were lying to me, it sounds like I got a car for BELOW GMS pricing. Did I miss something? :)

You also would have been placing your GM Employee Purchase Program Status, as well as your employment with GM in harms way by signing an inacurate VPP Agreement and Pricing Sheet.

But I'm not a GM employee. I bought it during the promotion. Is that were our disconnect is? You're assuming that the poster and I are GM employees?

I thought what was being discussed here are non-GM employees getting cars at GMS pricing (as they did last month).

They were offering you $28,900 with tax, title and plates?

I have had three dealers tell me that they can't deal below the GMS pricing because of some contract they have with GM. So that's not true?

I'm trying to deal with them on the warranties now since they won't budge on the prices. Anybody get any good warranty extensions in their deal?

No, that $28,900 was strictly for the sell price of the car. And I think I got a decent deal on an extended warranty for my car: 100K miles/$100 deductible for $1395. That is certainly an area where you should be able to do some dealing since each dealer may offer a different provider and plan.

Another voice of the uninformed.


Another voice of a Salesman/dealer. :bs:

Anytime you want to discuss how to sell something, let me know. Also if you would like to know how prices are set, let me know.

Again, GM sets the MSRP and not the bottom line price. If that were the case then all dealers would have the same bottom line price. Hold back, loans, interest, sales, are some of the factors in which a dealer sells a car for a certain price.

Again, Feck GM and all their Stealerships. They need to be taught a lesson. 50% of the market share to less than 20% in 20 years. Great job!!!!

Well, I took the plunge yesterday. Got an '09 Maverick Silver w/ Premium Package and All Season Tires. Was getting quoted @ 30,745 out the door from everybody and nobody would budge b/c the 'couldn't go down from GMS pricing...whatever. But I got really lucky and one dealer screwed up and thought the rebates on the '09's were $2500 and quoted me $29,745 out the door. So my local dealer reluctantly matched the price and got me his son's GMS number. The final damage is:

~ $27,873 sell price + ~ $1672.36 (Tax) + ~ $200 (Title and Plates) --> Comes to $29,745 delivered.

one particular dealer here quoted the $2500 rabate on all their 09s because they didnt have 08s. not sure what they wee using on their end to get that, but i am elligible for employee pricing which i thought was as low as they could go, plus any GM discount.

that was the number (other than tax) that i was offered. obviously my taxes will differ, but GMS/employee pricing plus $2500 cash back total.

why hasn't the zero percent been advertised? I've seen enough toyota adds offering it?

During last month's employee pricing promotion it certainly was not illegal or against GM rules for dealers to throw in some extra cash,; largest Pontiac/GMC dealer in our area advertised an additional $250 BELOW GMS on every eligible vehicle on the lot. If that were not "allowed" then their doors would be closed today. During THAT promotion every GM dealer that wanted to stay a GM dealer had a maximum price at which they could sell, hoping for trades and not clean deals. Dealers even have sent out (or their names attached) to bonus coupons for GM card earnings where they will cough up up to $250 more than earnings. Where does it all come from? The bottom line, and advertising, and anything to get customers in the door.

Can a dealer sell at GMS pricing without a valid GMS certificate? Sure, if they want to. They can sell at invoice, $300 over invoice, $300 under invoice all day every day - if they do one of the days will be their last as it takes a certain $ figure just to unlock the doors in the morning.

BTW, I would wager that the current 1500/2500 cash from GM is partially from dealer's pocket as that is a common procedure in the industry.

Well, I took the plunge yesterday. Got an '09 Maverick Silver w/ Premium Package and All Season Tires. Was getting quoted @ 30,745 out the door from everybody and nobody would budge b/c the 'couldn't go down from GMS pricing...whatever. But I got really lucky and one dealer screwed up and thought the rebates on the '09's were $2500 and quoted me $29,745 out the door. So my local dealer reluctantly matched the price and got me his son's GMS number. The final damage is:

~ $27,873 sell price + ~ $1672.36 (Tax) + ~ $200 (Title and Plates) --> Comes to $29,745 delivered.

That, my friend, is an excellent deal for an 09.

6% tax im moving down there! almost 9% here.

6% tax im moving down there! almost 9% here.

Ummmm, grass is always greener, get what you pay for, coulda woulda shoulda, need I go on? Its almost 9% here too, but wouldn't trade/move for anything!:)

[quote=romeyjdogg;110953

~ $27,873 sell price + ~ $1672.36 (Tax) + ~ $200 (Title and Plates) --> Comes to $29,745 delivered.[/quote]

Sounds like a great deal. I've been planning on buying within the next few months but would consider jumping on a similar price today. With economic conditions worsening and the end not in sight I have been delaying the purchase. Prices should continue to decline for some time.

Anyone else manage a similar deal? When does the next Red Tag sale start?

any information on the next red tag sale ?

current offers are good thru 11/4, correct? so 11/5, should be the day for new offers? hopefully better ones!!

lets here it for 0%/72!!

6% tax im moving down there! almost 9% here.

0% in Oregon.

GMAC has changed their guidelines, not to offer credit to anyone with less than a 700 credit score. Just saw it on CNBC.

GMAC has changed their guidelines, not to offer credit to anyone with less than a 700 credit score. Just saw it on CNBC.

Old news! That bit of trivia was released last week or the week before. Quite a bruhaha over that decision by GM in the thread that ran on it. Now GM touts that it has 100s of financing sources at most dealers for every buyer's need. Baaaah, sure they do!:slap:

Old news! That bit of trivia was released last week or the week before. Quite a bruhaha over that decision by GM in the thread that ran on it. Now GM touts that it has 100s of financing sources at most dealers for every buyer's need. Baaaah, sure they do!:slap:


Sure they do, with 20% down and a 9% rate. Anyone would qualify for that.

any word on this months rebates?

any word on this months rebates?

Looks like a Red Tag price = around $1,400 off MSRP
on a loaded G8 GT
- $1,500 rebate in GA.
MSRP = $34,110 ( "old" unit )
Transaction price = $31,169
Minus ( another $1,000 in 'leftover' Dealer Cash Certificate -
if my Sales Rep is telling me the truth.... ) =
$30,110.
- Ray
Planning to visit that Dealer Thursday....

I posted in the next thread down.

700 is a little harsh.
I bet their losses wouldn't be statistically different if they lowered it to 680.
Once somebody gets to 720 the odds of them defaulting are almost 0.

700 is a little harsh.
I bet their losses wouldn't be statistically different if they lowered it to 680.
Once somebody gets to 720 the odds of them defaulting are almost 0.


That is the point.

Also, if they are only offering $1500 on the reg tag event, have fun with a month over month decline. :judge:

That is the point.

Also, if they are only offering $1500 on the reg tag event, have fun with a month over month decline. :judge:

As I posted above, if there is a $1,000 Dealer Cash Certificate
available, it looks to me like an MSRP $34,100 will go for
$30,169. = approx. $4K off.
Invoice on that car would be around $32K,
I believe...
[ Edit: Looks to me like the 'Red Tag' price = approx. $1,500 off MSRP.
And then there is an additional $1,500 rebate - at least in GA.
Looks like the rebate amount may vary by region?? ]
- Ray
Ready to spend a couple of bucks in gasoline
and a few minutes of my time
to investigate...

Ready to spend a couple of bucks in gasoline and a few minutes of my time to investigate...

You go Ray! Good luck on the buying trip!:wink2:

You go Ray! Good luck on the buying trip!:wink2:

I am having my current ride serviced today
[ Corvette ] and if I can make the time,
I plan to drive the one I am interested in
tomorrow....
- Ray
G8 GT 4 me???

So Red Tag time is here, $1500 on 09's and $2000 on 08's. Not too impressive. You all think March Madness will be better? I want my new G8 sooo bad just trying to wait until the right time?

The way GM is going some of the guys sitting on the fence might miss out? Listen people.......if you're waiting for that extra 1000 or 2000 off is gonna be the break it or leave it deal? Maybe the G8 isn't right for you......we are always hoping for the better? Truth is if you look at it all later, there isn't much difference on the WHOLE PICTURE outcome between 0% or cash back or whatever........bottom deal....to make a living......these cars cost SO much.....bargain hunters are slaughtering the domestic car values anyway.

The way GM is going some of the guys sitting on the fence might miss out? Listen people.......if you're waiting for that extra 1000 or 2000 off is gonna be the break it or leave it deal? Maybe the G8 isn't right for you.

How are people on the fence going to miss out? Whats wrong with waiting and timing your purchase for the best price?

The way GM is going some of the guys sitting on the fence might miss out? Listen people.......if you're waiting for that extra 1000 or 2000 off is gonna be the break it or leave it deal? Maybe the G8 isn't right for you......we are always hoping for the better? Truth is if you look at it all later, there isn't much difference on the WHOLE PICTURE outcome between 0% or cash back or whatever........bottom deal....to make a living......these cars cost SO much.....bargain hunters are slaughtering the domestic car values anyway.

That is the point of a free market. Drive down the high costs.

That is the point of a free market. Drive down the high costs.

Did I miss something? ALL the sources that have reviewed this car say it is the deal of the century! Absolutely the most bang for the buck on the market today, and you talk about driving down high costs? I take it you were not referring to the price of the G8?

So Red Tag time is here, $1500 on 09's and $2000 on 08's. Not too impressive. You all think March Madness will be better? I want my new G8 sooo bad just trying to wait until the right time?

As I posted above, the "Red Tag" price, on a new 2009
G8 GT w/Premium, Sport & Roof is approx $1,500 off.
The current 2009 rebates are on top of that -
in GA = another $1,500 off.
My dealer has a $1,000 off cert.
Total = $4K off.
FWIW.
- Ray
Close now. Looking very seriously ...

Did I miss something? ALL the sources that have reviewed this car say it is the deal of the century! Absolutely the most bang for the buck on the market today, and you talk about driving down high costs? I take it you were not referring to the price of the G8?


A little economics 101. When you sell a car for 28,XXX in September. Then raise the price by $880. Then Sell the same car in November for $31,XXX That same car is still worth 28,XXX After raising the prices, just have another sale bring them back down to 28,XXX Tells people that the $34k sticker price is $6k to high. 20 Years ago, before the information age, people would fall for this, not in this day and age. Since 2001, GM has offered the same incentives and the same sales, year after year.

BTW, The car magazines that review these cars also receive HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in advertising for their magazines and websites.

So, that allows a car companies like Honda and Toyota to make more per car than GM, why should they (H and T) sell cars for less? They make more profit per car that anyone else. Because the "market" is set by competition not what a car magazine or MSRP says.

When do you see Honda offering 10,XXX off their cars, almost never. Why? They do not need to, they are already mostly priced correctly.

Again, just because a car that is "LIKE" or in the same "class" another does not mean the car you are buying is the same.

They keep comparing the G8 to a 3 series BMW. They are not even in the same class, as far as fit and finish and technology. So yes, it makes the G8 look like a bargain sale compared to the 325. The 3 Series should be compared to a Caddy, not the G8.

BTW, the first 6 months of sales of the Camaro will tell if GM is going to get some life support. The first week orders were like 4000 units or so. Lets see how many people actually take delivery of a car they have not driven, let alone even seen in person.

As I posted above, the "Red Tag" price, on a new 2009
G8 GT w/Premium, Sport & Roof is approx $1,500 off.
The current 2009 rebates are on top of that -
in GA = another $1,500 off.
My dealer has a $1,000 off cert.
Total = $4K off.
FWIW.
- Ray
Close now. Looking very seriously ...

Well Herb Chambers in Danvers Mass is quoting Invoice minus the $1500 rebate and the $1000 dealer cash bring it to $28,7XX. with a MSRP of $34,XXX.

lets see if gm is hurting on the new camero with what in incentives?

They keep comparing the G8 to a 3 series BMW. They are not even in the same class, as far as fit and finish and technology. So yes, it makes the G8 look like a bargain sale compared to the 325. The 3 Series should be compared to a Caddy, not the G8.

.

As many here have already pointed out, the G8 is much closer to a BMW 5 or 7 – in size & performance. The 3 is MUCH smaller. If the BMW 3 suits your size requirements, a 335i would be the closest to a G8 GT, IMHO – and the 335i Sedan MSRP now ** STARTS** at just over $40K...
plus Dest. = almost $41K.

[edit: Sport pkg adds $2,150. Premium adds $2,650. Automatic \ ‘Steptronic = $1,325. Heated seats, another $500.

And that brings what I’d call a ‘comparable’ 335i Sedan to around $47.5K – comparing to a G8 GT Prem., Sport, Sunroof @ approx. $35K. ]

As many here have already pointed out, the G8 is much closer to a BMW 5 or 7 – in size & performance. The 3 is MUCH smaller. If the BMW 3 suits your size requirements, a 335i would be the closest to a G8 GT, IMHO – and the 335i Sedan MSRP now ** STARTS** at just over $40K...
plus Dest. = almost $41K.

[edit: Sport pkg adds $2,150. Premium adds $2,650. Automatic \ ‘Steptronic = $1,325. Heated seats, another $500.

And that brings what I’d call a ‘comparable’ 335i Sedan to around $47.5K – comparing to a G8 GT Prem., Sport, Sunroof @ approx. $35K. ]


They don't even compare. Have you ever owned, not driven, seen, actually owned a BMW. I am sorry there are in 2 different classes.

lets see if gm is hurting on the new camero with what in incentives?


Just wait until December of 09' there will be plenty, If they are still around. :wink2:

They don't even compare. Have you ever owned, not driven, seen, actually owned a BMW. I am sorry there are in 2 different classes.

I'm with Screw, they just don't compare except in the loosest manner possible. It's not to say the G8 isn't a great car - it just isn't apples to apples comparison.

A little economics 101. When you sell a car for 28,XXX in September. Then raise the price by $880. Then Sell the same car in November for $31,XXX That same car is still worth 28,XXX After raising the prices, just have another sale bring them back down to 28,XXX Tells people that the $34k sticker price is $6k to high. 20 Years ago, before the information age, people would fall for this, not in this day and age. Since 2001, GM has offered the same incentives and the same sales, year after year.

BTW, The car magazines that review these cars also receive HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in advertising for their magazines and websites.

So, that allows a car companies like Honda and Toyota to make more per car than GM, why should they (H and T) sell cars for less? They make more profit per car that anyone else. Because the "market" is set by competition not what a car magazine or MSRP says.

When do you see Honda offering 10,XXX off their cars, almost never. Why? They do not need to, they are already mostly priced correctly.

Again, just because a car that is "LIKE" or in the same "class" another does not mean the car you are buying is the same.

They keep comparing the G8 to a 3 series BMW. They are not even in the same class, as far as fit and finish and technology. So yes, it makes the G8 look like a bargain sale compared to the 325. The 3 Series should be compared to a Caddy, not the G8.

BTW, the first 6 months of sales of the Camaro will tell if GM is going to get some life support. The first week orders were like 4000 units or so. Lets see how many people actually take delivery of a car they have not driven, let alone even seen in person.

Does the term "legacy costs" mean anything to you? The Asian Invasion was a late entry into the USA car market, to put it mildly. Because of this late entry, many of the legacy costs were not incurred by the Asian manufacturers and still aren't. Meaning they still don't compete on a level playing field when it comes to costs per vehicle. And, just in case you weren't around, or don't care to remember, most of the first vehicles brought into this country by the Asian manufacturers were pieces of ****! Small, tinny, under powered, unsafe and ugly. They prospered off the poor and needy, correctly recognizing the USA mantra of a car in every garage, whether the owner actually had a garage or not! They sold lots of junky little disposable cars that cost next to nothing to produce, to people that could afford little else (some on this forum probably even fit into that category at the time, mid/late 60s early 70s). The big three ignored this invasion and focused on the big profit market larger cars, trucks and vans. So while the Asians were dumping their crap cars here, and stifling the ability of the USA manufacturers from selling their products in the Asian countries, slowly but surely the Asian cars improved and their following grew. Now we have a whole generation of drivers that remember the cars of their youth and think they will get the same cheap, decent quality cars from the Asian manufacturers today. In reality, the quality of the Asian cars is slowly but surely degrading, and the prices are increasing. While the USA manufacturers are suffering through perceived lack of quality, the Asian manufacturers are living off the exact opposite, a perceived higher level of quality. So say what you like, the playing field is getting ever so close to being level when it comes to quality and bang for the buck. That being said, what you sell a car for on any given day has nothing to do with what the car is worth. A car is worth whatever the customer at the time is willing to pay. So its worth has more to do with what people are willing to pay and not what the advertised selling price is at any given time. Oh, and if you think the Asian manufacturers don't dump hundreds of millions into the car rags, you have been studying the wrong economics. Wake up already!:slap:

Hey BBBBGXP, well said.
Hey Screw9991le, you got one thing right, “the "market" is set by competition” (and buyers). I’ll agree that BMW is in a different class, just as it should be for the $.

On a personal but related note…. I was quite shocked that when I went shopping that I didn’t find any 2 door coupes, import or domestic that I actually wanted to own. I don’t need a car as big as the G8, but I didn’t find anything else that is comfortable (I’m 6’2” 250lb) that provided decent ride, power, and looks for under $34,000.

My 2cents

Don

Numbers released this morning on CNBC's Squawk box has the Average GM plant worker making $82 and hour, that is with executive pay left OUT. While Toyota and Honda are $46. See a problem there?

Shut all the plants down, Fire all the workers, let them reapply for new jobs at realistic pay and benefits for the job they are doing and start over. Not paying some one $40+ben to tighten some bolts or put tires on a car. That is a $9 and hour job not a 40 something.

Just like the air traffic controllers of the 80s.

A nice cleansing!!!!

Numbers released this morning on CNBC's Squawk box has the Average GM plant worker making $82 and hour, that is with executive pay left OUT. While Toyota and Honda are $46. See a problem there?

Shut all the plants down, Fire all the workers, let them reapply for new jobs at realistic pay and benefits for the job they are doing and start over. Not paying some one $40+ben to tighten some bolts or put tires on a car. That is a $9 and hour job not a 40 something.

Just like the air traffic controllers of the 80s.

A nice cleansing!!!!

I just have to respond here.

I have seen a lot of posts here & elsewhere suggesting that the union workers be fired.

And comparing the current situation to the Air Traffic Controllers that Reagan fired in 1981. Some details of that situation are here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_ (1968)

One crucial difference here:

The Air Traffic Controllers were engaged in an illegal strike.

The union workers at GM plants are in full compliance with union contracts – signed by the UAW & by GM.

So the fundamental justification for firing the striking Air Traffic Controllers simply does not exist here.

So – apparently the suggestion here really is:
“Fire everyone at GM that is perceived as being overpayed.”

Interesting idea.

- Ray
Thinking if it really was that simple, even someone at GM could accomplish this . . .
[ sigh ]

Health care costs are really killing GM. Actually, health care costs are harming all areas of American business. It's very difficult to compete with a $1200+ "health care tax" on each vehicle. And that was 2005, it is probably closer to $1500 now.

There is no simple solution. Some form of health care reform is needed and someone is going to have to bite the bullet. Tax payer or business..

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g284/gillamachster/GMToycompare.jpg

I just have to respond here.

I have seen a lot of posts here & elsewhere suggesting that the union workers be fired.

And comparing the current situation to the Air Traffic Controllers that Reagan fired in 1981. Some details of that situation are here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_ (1968)

One crucial difference here:

The Air Traffic Controllers were engaged in an illegal strike.

The union workers at GM plants are in full compliance with union contracts – signed by the UAW & by GM.

So the fundamental justification for firing the striking Air Traffic Controllers simply does not exist here.

So – apparently the suggestion here really is:
“Fire everyone at GM that is perceived as being overpayed.”

Interesting idea.

- Ray
Thinking if it really was that simple, even someone at GM could accomplish this . . .
[ sigh ]

I should have kept typing. I am not trying to compare the strike of the ATC. I am saying that letting all of them go, did not kill or greatly affect the airline industry.

Give everyone notice. Take a pay cut and benefit cut or there is the door. Simple as that.

Unions worked 50 years ago. They do nothing now but extort money from a businesses. Simple, don't pay what we want or we walk. Well walk, we'll pay someone else. :drink:


Things in this county cost to much because of unions. Funny thing is I am a member of a union. I do not have a choice in the matter. But hey I don't make $82 an hour to tighten lug nuts. :whine:

GM's UAW workers or retirees have no deductible or copay on their medical coverage.
But Congress gets into the mix also with its "two fleet" CAFE rules. If GM has to build gas-misers and zero emission cars, let them build them outside North America if that's was most efficient and let them count in the GM fleet.

My understanding of Chapter 11 Bankruptcy includes renegotiating all labor costs/contracts to a level that allows the company to return from bankruptcy a viable entity. If that means union workers must take a pay cut, then so be it! A job, even at half your former pay, is still a job, and in most cases still a very good paying job at that! And if you have to join the rest of the world of hourly workers and pay reasonable co-pays and deductibles on your health insurance, well, welcome to the 21st century!:slap::wink2:

I should have kept typing. I am not trying to compare the strike of the ATC. I am saying that letting all of them go, did not kill or greatly affect the airline industry.

Give everyone notice. Take a pay cut and benefit cut or there is the door. Simple as that.

Unions worked 50 years ago. They do nothing now but extort money from a businesses. Simple, don't pay what we want or we walk. Well walk, we'll pay someone else. :drink:


Things in this county cost to much because of unions. Funny thing is I am a member of a union. I do not have a choice in the matter. But hey I don't make $82 an hour to tighten lug nuts. :whine:


I just came in at the end here but it's my understanding that one of the primary functions of Unions was to push for safe working conditions.

Well, the companies themselves have seen the value of a safe working environment (and the government helps with OSHA, etc.) so it looks like fighting for more money for their members, is their main function.

Obviously, people who make more, spend more, which is good for the economy but I agree that Unions are a major problem in our country.

And they might be so hard-headed that they price themselves out of their jobs.