Autoblog link: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/20/due-to-cafe-lutz-declares-rwd-impala-and-monaro-dead/

Looks like we may be looking at the end of an era due to the new CAFE regs :(

American consumers need to get over their "bigger is better" mentality and stop buying full-size SUV's and pickups as commuter vehicles :cursin:

Oh please. Lutz may be a "cool guy" but he's playing on your fears just like the rest of the auto industry. When the dust settles, performance auto's will still be available. This makes sense.

Despite my loathing of huge SUVs, etc... I think limiting the performance RWD cars to the niche is what GM should be doing. They have no business offering competing products from all of their brands. They end up competing internally. If they would let Pontiac have the RWD performance cars, they would be able to bring you even MORE for 30,000 dollars instead of having to leave out some of the refinements to keep it the "budget conscious performance sedan."

GM's product portfolio is still idiotic. We don't need another RWD performance Chevy. Screw chevy. They're supposed to be America's brand; economical, affordable, STANDARD. If they would arrange their portfolio as such, then Cadillac would finally leave BMW behind, and Pontiac would be knocking on their door step.

Oh please. Lutz may be a "cool guy" but he's playing on your fears just like the rest of the auto industry. When the dust settles, performance auto's will still be available. This makes sense.

Despite my loathing of huge SUVs, etc... I think limiting the performance RWD cars to the niche is what GM should be doing. They have no business offering competing products from all of their brands. They end up competing internally. If they would let Pontiac have the RWD performance cars, they would be able to bring you even MORE for 30,000 dollars instead of having to leave out some of the refinements to keep it the "budget conscious performance sedan."

GM's product portfolio is still idiotic. We don't need another RWD performance Chevy. Screw chevy. They're supposed to be America's brand; economical, affordable, STANDARD. If they would arrange their portfolio as such, then Cadillac would finally leave BMW behind, and Pontiac would be knocking on their door step.

Well said! Problem is, why would you leave Corvette, especially the new ZR1, languishing in the economical, affordable, STANDARD Chevy lineup?:huh:

Oh please. Lutz may be a "cool guy" but he's playing on your fears just like the rest of the auto industry. When the dust settles, performance auto's will still be available. This makes sense.

The new CAFE is a done deal. There's no point in fear-mongering to repeal it and I don't think that's what Lutz is doing. He's simply letting people know the path to compliance is going to require drastic and uncomfortable changes. When the dust settles as you say, performance cars will still be around but likely limited by price and volume. The every-man's V8 like this Pontiac probably won't exist in 10 years.

Maybe the reason why the Monaro isn't going to be made is it's just not economically viable for Holden to build a powerful coupe if it can't be exported to NA. I assume the CTC will be a lot more profitable for GMNA so it gets built instead.

In addition to greatly increased vehicle prices, I expect fossil fuel and battery materials are going to be more costly in the next decade. The net effect may be an exodus out of trucks and SUV's into smaller vehicles like crossovers and station wagons. Consequently, I expect more plant closings ahead.

It seems the long-term strategy is Chevy will be the volume brand and all else goes niche, thus, Chevy gets preferential treatment as they historically always have. If they see the G8 and say, "me too", they get their own version, so I'm surprised about the talk of canceling the RWD Impala. To me that would mean curtains for the Zeta G8 at Oshawa as well.

If the Zeta platform is supposed to be so flexible, why not just make a "small" V6 RWD Impala and have the Malibu for those who want FWD? These changes don't bode well for the Alpha platform.

Depending on what administration we get next, we may see additional "green" legislation that will affect automakers. Not to be a gloomy Gus, but if I were GM, I would plan for the worst in that regard.

Here we go again, gov/green design of what your future cars will be. We have been through this before. When CAFEs first came in we imported about 30% of our oil. Now with even higher CAFEs we import 60%. Why, because we drive more! You cannot conserve your way to growth. I.e. we need more refineries and let’s drill where the oil is. China and Castro are drilling within a boat ride of the Keys but not us???

The free market will take care of the auto design and mpg if we let it. On other sites I see a lot of people telling me not to drive this or that, death to V-8s, SUV etc….they know what is best for me and everyone and hate anything they do not agree with…free market determination is a foreign idea to them…I know I am preaching to the choir but just wanted to get it out there...

If you want a sweet sounding V-8, the next 5-8 years may be the window….Vette should survive due to low volume…??

I think under the CAFE, each auto manufacturer has to reach an avg MPG. I think they will offer cars that have a high MPG that will offset the lower MPG cars.
As far as GM, each division competes against each other since they are all sister Companies. Each one wants to out do the other to stay in business.

Performance cars will almost all be E85 capable in the future due to the CAFE credits. I'm surprised they did not just leave these RWD as planned and go 100% E85 capable drivetrains. Maybe the full lineup of engines they want to offer is not E85 capable yet.

The new CAFE is a done deal.

Who said it wasn't? It goes into effect in 2011.

Zeta is a larger platform than a mid-size car. That is what Alpha is for. Alpha is being developed, so you're wonders are already answered.

My point has nothing to do with the corvette, or how big the platform is. First and foremost, performance cars will still be around; for those who worry. And secondly, GM is going to have to arrange their product portfolio into logical fashion whether they like it or not. Time to use our brand's strategically, instead of idiotically. What happens if you try to shoot at everybody with everyone?

Chaos, a mess... Could you imagine if the US Army just went out and started shooting at everybody at once? Then the enemy concentrates its focus on certain groups and voila, the US Army don't look so hot anymore. Toyota and Honda went for a targeted audience... Look at what success they have had. 3 vs 11.... the score is nearly tied. What a game; what team would YOU bet on?

What a game; what team would YOU bet on?

I bet that the American public will finally wake up to the fact that US manufacturers can make quality vehicles. And, that once the Asian manufacturers start to have the same volume and variety as their US counterparts, they too will run into the quality issues as the US companies. As evidenced by Toyota's recent experiences.:patriot:

China and Castro are drilling within a boat ride of the Keys but not us???

The free market will take care of the auto design and mpg if we let it.

If you want a sweet sounding V-8, the next 5-8 years may be the window….
1) Word.

2) Word.

3) Word. I've noticed that a lot of guys are jacking up Crown Vics/Grand Ma/Town Cars and I thought it was odd. Do they really need the room or.. ? But now that I think about it, those might be the only average-man RWD V8 sadeans that they can get a hold of. Sure, there are expensive RWD V8 sedans (Audi, M-B, BMW, etc) but has there been a decently priced RWD V8 sedan lately? I can't think of anything but the Crown Vic and its cousins to fit the bill, and those aren't exactly sporty. Dodge and Chrysler put out a pair, but those are rather ugly, in my opinion, and still rather new. I was trying to think about what kind of car I would get used if I didn't get a new G8.. and I have no idea. Nothing would be close.

On a different note, does anybody know if the Australian plant is unionized or not? It'd be great to get a domestic car with foreign production quality.

If I just had to have an affordable sporty v8 sedan with HP upgrade capable. I would look at the Lincoln LS. True they don't make them anymore but their still rather current. Just my 2 cents.

Mostly rehash of what Bob has said for past 6 months, nothing new - except demise of GTO/Monaro was news to me (right!). If you all recall the last Monaro rolled away long before the last 2006 GTO, we are two years hence. The existing STS, CTS, and G8 is all the more reason to keep the Impala the way it is, although it means continuation of an existing platform. And whether the G6 becomes rwd or stays fwd is somewhat immaterial if they can let it catch up at least to teh Malibu/Aura, and offer a hybrid, then leapfrog ahead with AWD. This is GM's number one shortfall compared to the domestic competition. You can buy an Avenger, Charger, 300, Fusion, MKS, Taurus, MKZ (next fall) in 2wd OR AWD, and the only cars GM offers in this fashion are the STS, CTS, and not ready for prime time 9-X.

us performance sedan."

GM's product portfolio is still idiotic. We don't need another RWD performance Chevy. Screw chevy. They're supposed to be America's brand; economical, affordable, STANDARD. If they would arrange their portfolio as such, then Cadillac would finally leave BMW behind, and Pontiac would be knocking on their door step.

The main reason GM wants to have a RWD chevy is for fleet. police companies (including the military) are yelling, kicking and screaming for it so they can have decent cop cars. I don't see what the big deal is in ordering a fleet of g8's. that'd be pretty sweet.

The main reason GM wants to have a RWD chevy is for fleet. police companies (including the military) are yelling, kicking and screaming for it so they can have decent cop cars. I don't see what the big deal is in ordering a fleet of g8's. that'd be pretty sweet.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Easy to outrun & hide from a Crown Vic, but another GT, not so much. I say limit police vehicles to the V6 with bias ply summer tires. :gr_jest:

:thumbsup: hahaha

The bottom line is, they will adapt. It will mean the restructuring of plans for the performance sector. And it means that you either sell to the cops and write off Pontiac, or forget about the cops, and sell what you've still got. Let ford and Dodge have the police.

Alpha is still under development. So obviously performance cars will still be around. Big cars like the G8 will be very limited compared to volume economy cars.

The main reason GM wants to have a RWD chevy is for fleet. police companies (including the military) are yelling, kicking and screaming for it so they can have decent cop cars. I don't see what the big deal is in ordering a fleet of g8's. that'd be pretty sweet.

So just to clarify, one arm of the government want automakers to make burbling V8 cop cars and giant, armored SUV's, while another wants all vehicles to get 50mpg by 2020. Yeah, that's consistency.

Personally, I don't know what the problem is with using FWD police cars. The taxpayer is footing the bill for the gas and no one can outrun a Motorola anyway. If they need a V8, how about a 5.3 Impala? Most of the law enforcement in my area drive Impalas and they seem to be getting along just fine. Fleet is not a high profit venture anyway.

[QUOTE=NeqsG8GT;11123]
Personally, I don't know what the problem is with using FWD police cars. The taxpayer is footing the bill for the gas and no one can outrun a Motorola anyway. QUOTE]

You don't have to outrun the radio. Just get far enough out in front that you can lose the guy working the radio. Easily done to even a v8 powered car.

I have to agree that the global warming implications of one cop per 400 hp 6-passenger Crown Vic are enormous. What do interstate highway cops need with back seats anyway? They could have a new motto: "take no prisioners".

So just to clarify, one arm of the government want automakers to make burbling V8 cop cars and giant, armored SUV's, while another wants all vehicles to get 50mpg by 2020. Yeah, that's consistency.

Personally, I don't know what the problem is with using FWD police cars. The taxpayer is footing the bill for the gas and no one can outrun a Motorola anyway. If they need a V8, how about a 5.3 Impala? Most of the law enforcement in my area drive Impalas and they seem to be getting along just fine. Fleet is not a high profit venture anyway.

oh yeah, they use the FWD Impala's but they hate it. I deal with it almost everyday.

You don't have to outrun the radio. Just get far enough out in front that you can lose the guy working the radio. Easily done to even a v8 powered car.


That's hard to do if that radio operator is flying in a plane or helicopter. Just ask the GTO owner in Ohio.


But heck, my 1995 MTX SHO could outrun a Crown Vic. :laugh:

Via GMI:

http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/GAM.20080124.RGM24/GIStory/

"General Motors Corp. has scrapped plans to build some rear-wheel-drive cars at its giant operations in Oshawa, Ont., a move that could threaten the long-term future of the largest vehicle assembly plant in Canada and thousands of jobs."

'General Motors of Canada Ltd. spokesman Stew Low said yesterday that no vehicle beyond Camaro was ever approved, "so you can't cancel something that wasn't there."'

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It's a real rock and a hard place. The public doesn't want to buy small vehicles. They won't want to pay the premiums required to build large vehicles that comply with CAFE. Politicians won't raise tax on gas to move people into smaller vehicles as the public will have their heads. Profits are already thin to nothing.

Since the rules aren't finalized, the next administration will be in a position to really turn the screws if they so choose. I expect they will. Consumers are going to be calling foul because they can't buy jacked up HEMI Rams anymore. They'll be placing the blame on automakers not politicians, (as intended). Interesting times ahead.

With E-85 fuel, companies get a great CAFE rating, even if the owners choose to run regular unleaded in them. E-85 is only 15% gasoline. Making the bigger V8 cars E-85 capatible and still be able to get a 40+ MPG CAFE rating is not that hard. The target is only 35mpg.

It's a WIN-WIN situation to continue building cars people want with E-85 powerplants.

Note: Most NYPD Impala's are using the 3.9L V6 not the 5.3L V8 from the SS for insurance reasons plus they did the same with the 3.8L Super charged V6 from the 2004-2005. Lately there acquiring Dodge Charger cop car. Mostly with Hemi's some with the 3.5L DOHC V6.

ok so the "Monaro" and "GTO" are dead but what about a G8 coupe? I dont really care if its only got a V6 as long as it makes some pretty decent power. I love the look of the G8 but I dont really want or need a big 4 door car. I would kill for a 2 door G8...

The Manaro would have been a separate car. The only car that could possibly show up in the G8 line up is the GXP in addition to the ST. Still unclear as to whether the GXP will happen; there has been like... almost no real chatter.