Just curious if any of you are thinking of making this move and why.


Jeff

No, for three reaons:

First, I don't need to take a bath on the depreciation on my 09 G8 GT.

Second, deals for a GXP will be hard to find.

Third, the manual tranny isn't enough for me to justify making the switch.

Soon as my lease is up, it's either a GXP or another GT w/supercharger, leaning towards the supercharger :D

I really want the 6.2L though, maybe a supercharged GXP??? LOL

no way... whoever does will be taking a huge bath on the GT...

OUCH...

I am thinking about trading in for the GXP or the CTS-V. My main reason is I want the most power available while retaining full factory warranty.

I know I can add a supercharger for $6,500 to my GT, but I don't like the idea of blowing up my tranny or rear or even the internals of the motor and having to replace those on my dime.

I would still get an automatic on the GXP or CTS-V. I sit in rush hour traffic in Houston and driving a stick is just too much damn work.

My dealer (for the GXP) would need to get me the best possible price AND give me decent value on my trade in if I were to stick with a GXP.

i don't see the need for more power either...

360hp and tons of torque are plenty of power for a daily driver...

the CTS-V is a god damn monster though... i'd love to have one...

I would never trade! I could change the rear end ratio to something around a 3.73, install a cam with programer and get the same performance of the GXP for a lot less $$!

You could keep your GT, put a blower on it, blow the engine, replace it... and still have spent less money then trading in your GT for half what you paid for it several months ago to get a GXP.

I know I can add a supercharger for $6,500 to my GT, but I don't like the idea of blowing up my tranny or rear or even the internals of the motor and having to replace those on my dime.

Even though you are highly risk-averse, you are the perfect candidate for the TVS1900.

With the stock TVS tune and the optional $200 Magnuson drivetrain warranty, you will have zero risk - you have nothing to worry about. In the even of failure on any part of your G8, the General will cover everything other than the drivetrain (they have to); Magnuson will cover the blower, the engine, the transmission, and the rear end, in the event that GM doesn't.

If you modify anything on the drivetrain - intake, engine, transmission, even the tune - the Magnuson warranty won't help you. However, since you are the kind of person who doesn't want to do this anyway, this won't be a problem.

The best part is you will have 70-80 RWHP more than a GXP and $4,000 left over to play with. :judge:

If you modify anything on the drivetrain - intake, engine, transmission, even the tune - the Magnuson warranty won't help you.

Very interesting. How can I find more info on the warranty?

Very interesting. How can I find out more info on the warranty?

BlownChevy should see this and reply, or you could PM him if you want to talk with him sooner.

I've been thinking about trading up to a GXP, especially now that I sold my Audi, have some cash, and my local dealer says I'm good for $4K off the MSRP due to $2500 GM Loyalty money + $1500 rebate. Using all that and my 09 GT as a trade, I'd have several thou left over.

But then I read this:

You could keep your GT, put a blower on it, blow the engine, replace it... and still have spent less money then trading in your GT for half what you paid for it several months ago to get a GXP.

As a refugee from expensive Audi RS 6 repairs, I had forgotten how reasonably priced most GM components are. Wikoff's statement wouldn't work for a lot of German hot rods but seems plausible for the Pontiac.

Plus if I modify my GT, I might use a software upgrade rather than a supercharger. It's a lot cheaper, harder to detect, and the Vector brand I'm considering basically re-tunes for higher octane. That's less threatening to engine longevity than supercharing, right? (Vector estimates gains of 30 hp and 30 lb ft. Not sure how that compares to a blower but it should be plenty for me. Any higher and I'd feel the need to upgrade brakes too, maybe even suspension -- money I'd rather not spend.)

In any case let's hear it for (relatively) cheap replacement costs for GM engines & trannies! :patriot:

...if I modify my GT, I might use a software upgrade rather than a supercharger. It's a lot cheaper, harder to detect, and the Vector brand I'm considering basically re-tunes for higher octane. That's less threatening to engine longevity than supercharing, right? (Vector estimates gains of 30 hp and 30 lb ft. Not sure how that compares to a blower but it should be plenty for me. Any higher and I'd feel the need to upgrade brakes too, maybe even suspension -- money I'd rather not spend.)

My experience in automobile performance has shown me a few things - you are not going to find a more reliable and consistent company than Magnuson Products, nor are you going to find a more enthusiastic representative of a company than you will Brian (BlownChevy). But all of that would be irrelevant if the product wasn't up to snuff, right?

That's where Magnuson really shines. They take an OEM-quality assembly (Eaton's 6th generation rotor group, same as in the new CTS-V and ZR-1 Corvette), put that assembly in a Magnuson housing, and tune it to be driveable and ultra-safe in nearly every driving condition, and what you end up with is a blower that you could easily put 100,000+ miles on without maintenance or worry.

To answer your question directly, I would be willing to bet that Magnuson's tune for it's blower is more conservative in both (1) A/F mix, and (2) timing, than any aftermarket tuner's tune. Put that together with an increase of 120 RWHP (vs. 30-40 RWP max from tuning), and to me the decision is a no-brainer.

"my local dealer says I'm good for $4K off the MSRP due to $2500 GM Loyalty money + $1500 rebate."

Wait a minute - $4000??? I thought it was only $2500

I'm making the switch as soon as my silver GXP arrives... my GT is officially for sale.

I asked a friend of mine who works at a dealership what would they give me on an 09 loaded GT. He laughed and said hell we can't sell then new. I'm not sure we would buy a used GT. After the laughter subsided he said, he bet the used car mgr would hit me anywhere from 17-18k. That's all I needed to hear.

Like I've said before if I buy a GXP, I'll wait a year or so, and see how the prices are. I might buy my wife one. However, If I'm going to spend 46k like my dealership wants for the first GXP, then I'll buy a vette.

"my local dealer says I'm good for $4K off the MSRP due to $2500 GM Loyalty money + $1500 rebate."

Wait a minute - $4000??? I thought it was only $2500

I'm making the switch as soon as my silver GXP arrives... my GT is officially for sale.

Read it again. BOTH figures add up to $4K. If your dealer isn't giving you that, maybe you should insist on it before taking delivery.

Unless you have lots of money to burn (which some folks still do, by the way), keeping the GT and getting a blower is the obvious economic answer. Also, how many times will you really use the marginal power/handling of the GXP? Unless you track the car, my guess is...not much.

YMMV.

Read it again. BOTH figures add up to $4K. If your dealer isn't giving you that, maybe you should insist on it before taking delivery.


2009 Pontiac G8

Request A Quote (http://www.pontiac.com/request-quote/) Locate Dealer (http://www.pontiac.com/dealerLocatorSearch.do?searchType=ByPostalCode&searchByPostalCodeProximity=25&searchByPostalCodePostalCode=33701&BRANDID=pg&desiredCount=25) $1000 Loyalty Cash
+$1500 Customer Cash
$2500 Total Cash Allowance

See Offer Details (javascript:show('offerfooter-2-pontiac'))


WHERE is the extra $1500 coming from ??? I only see $2500

I've been thinking about trading up to a GXP, especially now that I sold my Audi, have some cash, and my local dealer says I'm good for $4K off the MSRP due to $2500 GM Loyalty money + $1500 rebate. Using all that and my 09 GT as a trade, I'd have several thou left over.



Where are you getting the $2500 GM Loyalty figure from? The current email and mailers show the amount at $1000 for a G8.

My experience in automobile performance has shown me a few things - you are not going to find a more reliable and consistent company than Magnuson Products, nor are you going to find a more enthusiastic representative of a company than you will Brian (BlownChevy). But all of that would be irrelevant if the product wasn't up to snuff, right?

That's where Magnuson really shines. They take an OEM-quality assembly (Eaton's 6th generation rotor group, same as in the new CTS-V and ZR-1 Corvette), put that assembly in a Magnuson housing, and tune it to be driveable and ultra-safe in nearly every driving condition, and what you end up with is a blower that you could easily put 100,000+ miles on without maintenance or worry.

To answer your question directly, I would be willing to bet that Magnuson's tune for it's blower is more conservative in both (1) A/F mix, and (2) timing, than any aftermarket tuner's tune. Put that together with an increase of 120 RWHP (vs. 30-40 RWP max from tuning), and to me the decision is a no-brainer.

What about cost? For those of us not seeking 100 RWHP, $700 vs. $6500 seems like a no-brainer to me unless the programming approach poses more risk. Adding 120 RWHP has some risks if brakes & suspension don't get upgrades too, plus it becomes very pricey. (Or go without a brake upgrade and drive a car whose stopping power doesn't match its go-power. Not a good idea IMO, and GM seems to agree since they beefed up brakes on the GXP with only 50 more hp than the GT.)

As for reliability, Vector's guy told me in November he'd had no complaints from the 80 or so GTs he had tuned to that point. Having seen no complaints here, I tend to believe him. Plus his shop is about two miles from my Michigan home, and when we met I made it clear I'd be camping on his doorstep if I bought his tune & had significant problems. He didn't seem to mind.

I'm not questioning Magnuson's quality or reliability, just the expense compared to a tune. Do the math:

$6500 divided by 100 hp = $65 per hp gained
or
$700 divided by 30 hp = $23 per hp gained

For those of us not seeking 100 more hp and/or not willing to spend well into the thousands, why not just do a tune? I had a tune, or APR brand "chip" as it was known then, on two prior turbocharged Audis (A4, S4) with no problems whatsoever.

As for reliability, Vector's guy told me in November he'd had no complaints from the 80 or so GTs he had tuned to that point. Having seen no complaints here, I tend to believe him. Plus his shop is about two miles from my Michigan home, and when we met I made it clear I'd be camping on his doorstep if I bought his tune & had significant problems. He didn't seem to mind.

I wish Vector was two miles away, Kirk would get sick of me coming in for more mods and tweaks of the tune. You wouldn't regret getting his tune, you'll probably be more than satisfied with the performance gains.

Those looking at superchargers are a completely different modding animal. Because it won't stop there, then you want all the bolt ons with full exhaust along with the SC.

Where are you getting the $2500 GM Loyalty figure from? The current email and mailers show the amount at $1000 for a G8.

Supplier pricing adds $1600 on top of loyalty and cash back.

I'm geting my GXP for ~$37K plus sold the wife's car and I'm putting an extra $10k on top of that. So, it looks like I am getting my GXP for about the same or less than most people are getting the GT's.

:driving:I wish Vector was two miles away, Kirk would get sick of me coming in for more mods and tweaks of the tune. You wouldn't regret getting his tune, you'll probably be more than satisfied with the performance gains.

Those looking at superchargers are a completely different modding animal. Because it won't stop there, then you want all the bolt ons with full exhaust along with the SC.

Thanks for that vote of confidence in Vector. I've never done business with them so it's good to hear before I do!

Guess you're right, supercharger advocates apparently have far bigger mod budgets than me at the moment. Over at Audiworld, where most cars are turbocharged from the factory, "chips" sometimes are followed by aftermarket exhaust, suspension, brakes, and/or DPs. Fun to drive, for sure, but owners of heavily modded Audis often paid a price at resale time. Buyers, they discovered, usually wanted stock vehicles, to either 1) keep them that way and feel safer about warranties, or 2) do the mods themselves. Most buyers perceived modded cars as having been driven hard; otherwise why would the owners mod them? Often the result was little or no return on the price of mods at resale time. Some sellers decided to "de-mod" -- return the car to stock and sell off aftermarket stuff separately, sometimes getting no more than 50 cents for each dollar spent. That's fine for those who don't mind it, but I'd rather be driving than spending time trying to sell off parts. :driving:

What about cost? For those of us not seeking 100 RWHP, $700 vs. $6500 seems like a no-brainer to me unless the programming approach poses more risk. Adding 120 RWHP has some risks if brakes & suspension don't get upgrades too, plus it becomes very pricey. (Or go without a brake upgrade and drive a car whose stopping power doesn't match its go-power. Not a good idea IMO, and GM seems to agree since they beefed up brakes on the GXP with only 50 more hp than the GT.)

As for reliability, Vector's guy told me in November he'd had no complaints from the 80 or so GTs he had tuned to that point. Having seen no complaints here, I tend to believe him. Plus his shop is about two miles from my Michigan home, and when we met I made it clear I'd be camping on his doorstep if I bought his tune & had significant problems. He didn't seem to mind.

I'm not questioning Magnuson's quality or reliability, just the expense compared to a tune. Do the math:

$6500 divided by 100 hp = $65 per hp gained
or
$700 divided by 30 hp = $23 per hp gained

For those of us not seeking 100 more hp and/or not willing to spend well into the thousands, why not just do a tune? I had a tune, or APR brand "chip" as it was known then, on two prior turbocharged Audis (A4, S4) with no problems whatsoever.

In regards to the brakes, I am not too sure about how much of an "upgrade" OEM Brembo front brakes would be.

My last vehicle, a Nissan 350z Track model arrived stock with Brembos on front and rear. I swore by those brakes until I started using them for back to back braking. Turns out fade was as bad as or worse than the standard 350z brakes due to the fact that the rest of the components were not upgraded from Nissan. The other components in the "upgraded" Brembo package were identical to the standard with the exception of the calipers and rotors.

Now for that one single stop, they were good, but they damn sure didn’t turn out to be what I thought they would. And if memory serves me correctly, the Pontiac G8 with standard brakes stops shorter from 60 MPH than the Nissan 350z with Brembo. So hell, I guess the single stop is out the window too.

There are some great magazine articles where they have specifically tested the Nissan 350z and Infiniti G35 with Brembos and noted disturbing fade with back to back hammering of the brakes. They assimilated this with the OEM fluid being pushed past its threshold.

Put simply, if you just change out calipers and rotors without upgrading lines and everything else, you may gain a little, but not nearly as much as you think. And it can even become worse with hard back to back braking when you are pushing the remaining standard brake components.

I don’t know if Pontiac has upgraded just the rotors and calipers. If they did everything, then great. If not, I imagine that this will be similar to that of the Nissan, Infiniti, and several other manufacturers who are offering Brembos as an “Upgrade.” They are making money off of a big brake kit, without giving you a full on big brake kit.

Thanks for the brake info, Done12many2. You raise good points about brake upgrades needing depth.

Audi's RS 6 had great brakes for street use, but rotors & pads were getting toasted during track use. Some spent $3-4K on aftermarket brakes, but for $1K I prepped my Audi for their owner's club "driving school" at Daytona (translation: triple digit fun!) by adding stainless steel lines, Pagid Blue pads, and a brake fluid (DOT 5?) with higher temperature tolerance than stock. With the RS 6 I was able to also add inboard brake ducts from VW's Phaeton, which fit perfectly. The faster you go, the more cooling effect the ducts have -- great for stopping from the high speeds attainable on Daytona's 31 degree banking. Through nine 25-30 minute hot lap sessions around the tri-oval and an infield GT course, I regularly slammed on the brakes from 120-130 mph and noticed no fade. Rotors were stock and new.

I'm not questioning Magnuson's quality or reliability, just the expense compared to a tune. Do the math:

$6500 divided by 100 hp = $65 per hp gained
or
$700 divided by 30 hp = $23 per hp gained

For those of us not seeking 100 more hp and/or not willing to spend well into the thousands, why not just do a tune? I had a tune, or APR brand "chip" as it was known then, on two prior turbocharged Audis (A4, S4) with no problems whatsoever.

Your math is a little off because you're starting with the wrong numbers. The "out of the box" Magnuson TVS & stock tune will net you a minimum of 120 RWHP.

Even so, your HP comparison is not taking into account the fact that once you get your 30HP with a tune, you're done...unless you get headers ($1250+), intake ($300+), etc. Don't forget that after each mod you will need a re-tune. Compare that with the TVS, upon which you can start swapping pullies if you are adventurous. :)

I'm not knocking Vector or any other tuner for that matter...you will get exactly what you pay for with a tune - more power, sharper shifts, crisper response. In fact, many people have said that their vehicle has a completely differently personality after a tune. So if you are satisfied with what a tune has to offer you, most definitely, go for it. :judge:

The person I was (mainly) addressing was the guy who was considering a GXP because of potential warranty issues. :)

Fair enough; thanks, Mr. Sandog.

As a newcomer to current GM performance mods I'm unfamiliar with the term TVS. Can you enlighten me?

Fair enough; thanks, Mr. Sandog.

As a newcomer to current GM performance mods I'm unfamiliar with the term TVS. Can you enlighten me?

TVS stands for "Twin Vortices Series" and is the central component of Magnuson's newest modified-roots supercharger, based on Eaton's 6th-generation rotor group.

More Info:

Eaton's Main TVS Page (http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/ProductsServices/PerformanceProducts/Products/Superchargers/TVS/index.htm?ssSourceNodeId=5334&ssSourceSiteId=EatonCom)

Magnuson's Main Page Showcasing the TVS (http://www.magnacharger.com/) (and Mike Haddad's G8 :driving: )

There will be plenty either financially dumb people trading their G8s for a GXP or they are wealthy and money is no issue...

Do wealthy people drive Pontiacs?

Do wealthy people drive Pontiacs?

:iagree:

Do wealthy people drive Pontiacs?

You'd be surprised. I know of a multi, multi millionaire and he has quite the variety of cars. Not all wealthy people were born into it. Many make their money after living like the rest of us, and still enjoy muscle cars as well as some special non-europeon vehicles.

I have friends that live in million dollar houses, and one actually a Ranger and his wife a 98' Navigator.

Do wealthy people drive Pontiacs?

I am not positive, but I think 50 Cent might be wealthy, depending on what wealthy means to you. If memory serves me correctly, out of all of his extremely high end cars, he likes the G8 GT best.

Do wealthy people drive Pontiacs?

What do you consider wealthy?

Ok, I confess, the reason I started this thread is I am looking for
a used G8GT. If I had hit the stupid GMCARD redemtion top off "random" offer, I would be buying new. But I can't justify the steep depreciation without that extra 3k off. That Chesrown deal for the exec cars is looking pretty tough to beat. 23/24k for an exec GT with under 1k miles and a 12 month extension on the warrenty is a sick deal. So im trolling for a deal. Car show starts Feb 1st, but I doubt I'll see anything there
that will top the G8, bang for the buck. I'm comming out of a IS350 lease, and am looking to get back to something I can mod a bit.


Jeff

lol

GT + cam/headers = more power than GXP at less cost.

You could almost take a GT add cam/headers ($5k) and a maggie ($6k) for the price of a new GXP....

I spoke to a guy at Magnacharger and they said I would have to prove to the insurance company that the supercharger caused any damages to my vehicle. Yes I am overcautious, but comment makes me think that the warranty is really a gimmick.

Having said all that, I would still consider getting one.

I spoke to a guy at Magnacharger and they said I would have to prove to the insurance company that the supercharger caused any damages to my vehicle. Yes I am overcautious, but comment makes me think that the warranty is really a gimmick.

Having said all that, I would still consider getting one.

I bet the warrant is just a "feel good" type of deal until you actually have a claim. I wonder how much it would cost, in order to prove that the Magnacharger did any damage? I imagine the insurance company would fight it tooth and nail. jmo

I guess we'll see if anyone has a claim in the near future.

I am not positive, but I think 50 Cent might be wealthy, depending on what wealthy means to you. If memory serves me correctly, out of all of his extremely high end cars, he likes the G8 GT best.

Do you think he paid for his G8? He used to have a G6 GXP in his stable too.

I am not positive, but I think 50 Cent might be wealthy, depending on what wealthy means to you. If memory serves me correctly, out of all of his extremely high end cars, he likes the G8 GT best.

Fwiw. 50 Cent owned around 10% of Glaceau maker of Vitaminwater. Coca-Cola in 07, bought Glaceau for 4.2 billion in cash. I'd say that his 10% stake in the company has made him very wealthy. He can buy a GXP if he wanted. And with no discounts. LOL

He got it in an endorsment deal, like the G6.

Whoa...hmmm...definitely not PC. I assume you know all black people on the forum won't mind to posts like that???

I tried the "PC" version of the Pontiac acronym...

I got it, thought was very clever, but I can see how it could be considered offensive.

Thanks!

I imagine the insurance company would fight it tooth and nail. jmo
Yeah I can see that. Well it wasn't the SC that caused the tranny to fail it was the driver, it wasn't the SC that caused the piston to crack..it was the tune etc.

It'd be nice to see if its a "real" warranty or a gimmick...speak up Maggie folks!