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I'm very curious about this - 2 stroke marine oil as additive for fuel

8K views 68 replies 21 participants last post by  deezomaxima 
#1 · (Edited)
#2 ·
Tried it on my 89 mustang DD and I use it in my 95 Sierra some. I really didnt see much of a mileage increase but I use it every so often to lube the fuel pump and keep any buildup in the cylinders cleaned off. I used it about every 3-4 tanks of fuel. I dont use it in the G8 but I do add Lucas Top Cylinder Lube every couple tanks of fuel.
 
#3 ·
Sounds promising to help get rid of that "lifter tick" that GM says is perfectly normal for our engines....
Drives me crazy so if in the least it reduces that noise then I'll call it a win in my book!
 
#28 ·
Lifter tick will not be effected by this. In no way do the lifters come in contact with fuel. And before someone chimes in about preignition, I'm talking about lifter tick, not spark knock (probably also adversly effected by adding 2 cycle oil to gasoline).

Some of you guys are funny but hell, no one is telling any of you guys to try this.

From all of the reading I've done on this topic, it gives gasoline BETTER properties altogether. It keeps water out of the fuel system, lubricates the lines and upper engine. It also cleans combustion chambers and lubricates cylinder walls. It keeps injectors and fuel pump clean as well. If there were any negatives by doing this, it would have been posted after 4 years of the thread being on the LS1 site.

QUOTE]
You are going to have to inform some of us HOW this oil keep gas from absorbing moisture (never been a problem except for storage cars), WHY fuel lines need "lubricating" (lots of moving parts there), and HOW the introduction of oil keeps cumbustion chambers clean (having pulled apart a couple of LS motors, ths only "dirty" chambers I've seen are on cars with valve issues).
Junk science is just that...junk.
And if you do decide to do this, please consider monitoring your engine with a laptop and a good software interface. The only real data that is pertinent here is knock %, effeciency numbers, O2 readings and such.

Just my .02, but Ignition Timing is not the only thing that is retarded by adding 2 cycle oil...
 
#5 ·
Read the thread. The OP has been testing this since 2008 with positive results.

No one complained of blowing smoke but you will have to add the proper amount to keep the car from running worse. Guys on Maxima.org org only complained of a bad smell but it depends on the brand you use. Some people don't get the smell at all.
 
#6 ·
Never had any smoke with the proper amount. It isnt enough to smoke just enough to add a little lubrication to your fuel.
 
#7 ·
That's a very interesting concept! I still wonder about catalytic converter contamination: it's a long thread, so I didn't get all the way through it, but has anyone ever done an emissions test to see if their cats have been affected? Even if the 2-stroke oil removes deposits and cleans up the engine, isn't there still a chance of that debris fouling the cats (plus the debris from the burning oil)?
 
#8 ·
That is an excellent way of lowering your octane and inducing knock into the engine. Fu(kin' brilliant. Those are OLD tricks are for high mileage engines from decades ago. They have no place here. I have NEVER heard of an LS motor with top end oiling problems. My outboard,weedwacker and chainsaw are the only ones that get 2 stroke oil. Not my car.
 
#19 ·
That is an excellent way of lowering your octane and inducing knock into the engine. Fu(kin' brilliant. Those are OLD tricks are for high mileage engines from decades ago. They have no place here. I have NEVER heard of an LS motor with top end oiling problems. My outboard,weedwacker and chainsaw are the only ones that get 2 stroke oil. Not my car.
I actually wondered if it would retard the ability of the fuel/air mixture to ignite, thereby actually allowing for MORE timing? I'm not a chemist or anything, so I don't really know the properties of these things.
 
#9 ·
I think there is a reason why they specifically state that one brand of oil is 2- stroke...and the other...well normal, as we know it...

2-stroke engines run at higher RPM's, are air cooled, have No emissions and require the specific lubricant that probably has lots of zinc, and maybe lead (as in the old gas back in the day (leaded and un-leaded))

I would think this oil would clog the cats and give a bad reading on the 0xygen sensors....which may cause other problems...

If the corvette engineers aren't using 2 stroke oil to keep the corvette engine cool and lubricated in the Zr1....I doubt it be good in any 4 stroke engine....

but good luck!
 
#11 ·
I'm going to officially call total and utter BS on the entire idea/concept/theory and practice of adding any type of 2 stroke oil to the gas for any 4 stroke engine.

Anyone can type up a post with facts, figures and anything else they want. I sure as heck am not going to believe that one at all.
 
#12 ·
Some of you guys are funny but hell, no one is telling any of you guys to try this.

From all of the reading I've done on this topic, it gives gasoline BETTER properties altogether. It keeps water out of the fuel system, lubricates the lines and upper engine. It also cleans combustion chambers and lubricates cylinder walls. It keeps injectors and fuel pump clean as well. If there were any negatives by doing this, it would have been posted after 4 years of the thread being on the LS1 site.

Soon as someone with a G8 does this and reports positive results, everyone and their momma will be on this bandwagon. If there are folks that have done this and have had negative result, please post it. It really means nothing to say it doesn't work without facts.

Some folks also said you can't run E85 in our cars because our fuel systems can't handle it. Now people are running E85.
 
#13 ·
Some of you guys are funny but hell, no one is telling any of you guys to try this.

From all of the reading I've done on this topic, it gives gasoline BETTER properties altogether. It keeps water out of the fuel system, lubricates the lines and upper engine. It also cleans combustion chambers and lubricates cylinder walls. It keeps injectors and fuel pump clean as well. If there were any negatives by doing this, it would have been posted after 4 years of the thread being on the LS1 site.

Soon as someone with a G8 does this and reports positive results, everyone and their momma will be on this bandwagon. If there are folks that have done this and have had negative result, please post it. It really means nothing to say it doesn't work without facts.

Right on deezomaxima!

I'm very certain that someone will be along shortly with certified dyno charts along with high resolution pictures of the combustion chambers-before and after from adding the 1oz per 5 gallons of gas along with a video and the signature of Mitt Romney and Barack Obama to prove the case.
 
#17 ·
Exactly. I only have tried it in my 89 mustang and my 95 GMC. This stuff will not find its way into my G8. My old mustang seemed to idle smoother when the oil was added to the gas. I would say this stuff wouldnt hurt anything on older cars as long as you dont overdo it by adding too much oil. 2oz to 10 gallons is VERY diluted for anything.

Everything I read said to use 2 cycle marine oil since it is ash-less and should burn cleaner.
 
#18 ·
Exactly. I only have tried it in my 89 mustang and my 95 GMC. This stuff will not find its way into my G8.

I'm curious, why is it (or why do you think it is) okay for your '89 and '95 cars, but not for the G8? Older cars still have cats, fuel injection, etc.
 
#22 ·
Because the Internet makes everyone more qualified than the scientists and engineers who develop these products, dontcha know LOL!
 
#23 · (Edited)
Interesting topic here fellas. I'm like a few others who have only thought of 2 cycle oil as something for my edger, weedeater, etc.

Just a reminder for everyone to keep the topic on point with the OPs original post and the LS1 thread link accompanying it.

As a disclaimer neither the OP nor the G8Board recommends anyone to do this... But that doesn't mean a positive discussion can't take place over the what if's, pros, and cons.

I think we can keep this going so long as people keep it above the belt and avoid any personal attacks. Sound good?

Thanks guys!
 
#24 ·
I'm certainly not bad-mouthing anyone in particular, and in fact the concept is interesting enough that I might try it, even if just for a few tanks to see if I notice any idle benefit.
 
#26 ·
I haven't done this to my Maxima so I'd say hold off for now if you're really interested. There are some guys testing it on the Maxima forums so I'll let them be the test rats for now. So far, the only things noticeable is the engine has quieted down but no gas mileage improvement as of yet.
 
#25 ·
use premium grade gas (not super but top tier gas) from a new station or a high volume station, and throw in a bottle of techron in your tank every oil change, and you won't have to do this. I did this with my 02 grand am, and when I went to change the plugs, my brother asked me why they looked new, thinking I change them recently, It had 104k in miles at that point and first change for them too.
 
#27 ·
The LS1 people seem to have guinea pigged it for us already, though, since at least 2008. As well, their engines more like our own.

I'm really not worried about it causing damage, just more curious if it will actually help anything :)
 
#31 ·
Okay, so I decided to give this a try. Lots of talk back and forth, and I'm rarely on the cusp of any great findings here, so I figured it was my turn to contribute "new knowledge", so to speak.

I used Amsoil "HP Injector" 2-cycle fully synthetic, as that's what I use for my 2-stroke power equipment. I mixed it at roughly 500:1 to 600:1, and have put about 1000 km on since, over about 2 tanks of fuel.

I did not check the cleanliness of any plugs or anything; most of the discussion here seems to centre around performance and fuel economy.

Observations:

- car is noticeably smoother idling, and seems to be quieter in general
- no change in igntion timing (~ 35 degrees in V8 mode, highway cruising, 87 Oc)
- no change in LTFTs or O2 readings (not logged, just monitored)
- no change in "butt dyno" performance: still chirps 1-2 when hammered (87 Oc with 93 Oc tune LOL), still goes like a scared rabbit when accelerating at speed
- no change in AFM on/off performance
- no codes thrown or pending
- possibly increase in fuel economy: of course this depends on temperature and such, but I'm driving the same route all the time and I have maybe 0.2 L/100 km mileage improvement (~ 0.4 mpg)

Conclusion: a solid "meh". If the LS1 guys are right and it helps with engine cleanliness, then it might be worth doing with a few tanks' worth every now and then; however, if you're terrified of fuel additives, then you're not missing much.
 
#34 ·
Thanks for trying this.

Everyone I know is mainly reporting a quieter, smoother engine after using this additive. I don't think I'd expect any mpg gains though.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Think about this...oil does NOT vaporize easily. Fuel does. Here is what happens.

When fuel is liquid, i.e., before it passes through the injector at high pressure, it retains the properties of a liquid. Meaning it WILL NOT BURN. Only fuel VAPORS burn! When it passes the injector it is atomized into ultra fine particles of liquid which then enter the combustion chamber and immediately become VAPOR, which is then ignited by the spark and BOOM.

If you have two stroke oil (or any oil really) mixed with the fuel, that is, DISSOLVED into the LIQUID fuel...and that relatively cool mixture is passed through the injector into a HOT combustion chamber, the fuel EASILY vaporizes while the oil is very resistant to becoming a vapor. The oil "drops out" of the suspension and actually sticks to the metals inside the engine, which is what actually provides the lubrication. Very little of the oil burns initially and much of it passes through the engine unburned. There is some left over oil on the cylinder walls as the ring passes by, which provide ring seal by filling in the microscopic gaps between the rings and cylinder, and lubrication because oil is, well...slippery.

Two strokes, which as most know, have no crankcase oil under the piston, meaning the crankshaft bearing, wrist pin bearing, piston ring(s), cylinder walls, and piston itself must get lubrication from the oil mixed with the fuel. This oil sticks to all the bearings, rings, etc., and lets the engine live a happy life. If all the oil burned right away, there would be none left to lubricate these parts and the engine would die a very fast and hot death, as the friction created from unlubricated metal parts literally melted and fused the parts together. Ask any two stroke motocross racer about the time they put straight fuel into the tank accidentally...and then tried to run a couple hot laps. In a two stroke, leftover oil DOES create a goopy mess and requires cleaning of certain parts such as exhaust port carbon buildup, power valve mechanisms (devices that change the port opening area/height/timing inside a two stroke), some of it does burn, especially in a cold engine, and is the reason why two strokes are not favored by the EPA.

That being said, a single ounce of oil per 5 gallons of fuel (640:1 ratio) is so incredibly lean a mixture, that I certainly see no actual harm in it. Hell, I have gotten home from the track on 5 gallons of gas left over from my premixed mx bike fuel, mixed at 4oz per gallon of fuel (32:1 ratio). Many times in fact...mx racing for a teenager was expensive, and left over bike fuel was a lifesaver many times :)

The reasoning behind mixing a little two stroke oil in your gas for a 4-stroke engine is sound actually. It WILL indeed provide a bit more upper cylinder lubrication since a bit more oil will be on the cylinder walls which would indeed help create a better ring seal. However, too much and then you WILL create MORE carbon fouling because some of it sticks around and burns, leaving, yep, you guessed it, carbon. The old beaters you see running around spewing blue smoke are burning the extra oil that is going by the piston rings, valve stem seals, etc., and those engines will still run a loooooong time. It's not ideal but it does work.

How much benefit you actually gain is a guess at this point and it would seem that perceived gains may actually be in the head. Until someone takes an otherwise IDENTICAL setup and dyno's it under the exact same temperature, load, etc., with oil and then without the oil mixed into the fuel, and can provide scientific results which show the differences, it will remain to be seen if it is worth trying in an engine such as ours. Actually, if you reduce the amount of fuel into the engine (which you are by adding oil to it) then the motor would make LESS power, although you may make gains in lubricity which would negate that miniscule loss. At 1oz per 5 gallons, you are running 1/640th LESS fuel into a given combustion cycle.
 
#35 ·
What??? An oil thread that just up and died with no more discussion? :)
 
#36 ·
LOL! I'd like to take some credit for that :)
 
#37 ·
#38 ·
Here's a link to someone who did a burn test with TC-W3 vs Lucas vs untreated. I'm not feeling better educated after seeing them, but you might -->

http://www.youtube.com/user/friendlyjacek/videos?view=0

The Lucas seems to put-off more smoke.
Yup and plain fuel without the additive does also. the TC-W3 burns much cleaner. Just watch the explosion and the vapors afterward.

I'm using my Maxima as a test rat first. I'm not really looking for the mileage but moreso a cleaner, well lubricated fuel system. One guy on the Maxima forums reported a 10db drop in noise levels of his motor. Yes, he measured it with a db meter.
 
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