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Old 12-05-2012, 02:15 PM   #81
r1owner
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I agree engine braking is no harder on your engine than acceleration. I'm just saying it's not necessary to engine brake, so why add the stress when you don't need to.

And by engine braking, I mean downshifting WAY before a turn and coming close to redline. IMO (and I'm not fast by any means) it should be gas-brake-repeat. Very little time for the engine to be doing anything but accelerating! . I've seen plenty of videos of people substituting the engine for brakes.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:54 PM   #82
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M6, nothing like rowing your own gears......
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:11 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r1owner View Post
I agree engine braking is no harder on your engine than acceleration. I'm just saying it's not necessary to engine brake, so why add the stress when you don't need to.

And by engine braking, I mean downshifting WAY before a turn and coming close to redline. IMO (and I'm not fast by any means) it should be gas-brake-repeat. Very little time for the engine to be doing anything but accelerating! . I've seen plenty of videos of people substituting the engine for brakes.
There are MANY advantages to engine braking - if you're driving fast you don't cook your brakes, you scrub off a good amount of speed prior to using them, secondly, it doesn't disrupt the car's inertia as much as touching the brakes, nor will it activate the ABS - in other words you can scrub some speed off without disrupting your line or direction as much. Also, it is very beneficial in inclement weather - like when you're in snow/slush/ice it is safer to gradually stop w/ engine braking before applying brakes rather than applying brakes at a higher rate of speed while coming to a stop.

One of the coolest things I ever did in a car I did in my 5 speed manual jetta back when I was in college. There was a pileup ahead of me due to a snow storm and I was heading right toward it. I locked up the brakes (no abs) and depressed the clutch fully, still sliding right toward the truck in front of me I through it in REVERSE and dropped the clutch giving full throttle....and I slowed like a MOTHAF****R!!!! haha, although I did end up doing a 180 in the process and got stuck in a snowbank, I avoided an almost certain collision.

Disclaimer: don't try that at home!

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Old 12-05-2012, 08:26 PM   #84
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Sorry, coasting while letting the engine slow the car down is not faster around a track then gas-brake-gas.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:35 PM   #85
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Good choice, OP

For those that need help on your way to manualhood:
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ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:39 PM   #86
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This discussion is starting to sound startlingly like holding a position you've committed to just because you've committed to it.

Won't keep me from chipping in, though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by r1owner View Post
I agree engine braking is no harder on your engine than acceleration. I'm just saying it's not necessary to engine brake, so why add the stress when you don't need to.
Because it's shades of gray. If you downshift AND use the brakes, you haven't avoided engine braking. You've just combined engine braking with your brakes. You're just using the friction and pumping losses of your engine to slow the car down. So it's not really something you can - or should - religiously avoid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r1owner View Post
And by engine braking, I mean downshifting WAY before a turn and coming close to redline. IMO (and I'm not fast by any means) it should be gas-brake-repeat. Very little time for the engine to be doing anything but accelerating! . I've seen plenty of videos of people substituting the engine for brakes.
Pfffft, you can't go changing the definition of what you mean afterward to tilt the discussion your way!

But in reality, what you've likely seen videos of is people downshifting in the braking zone. You want to downshift while braking into a turn and avoid shifting once you're actually turning because you want your car control to be as smooth through the turn as possible, and that will be upset by a shift. The engine assists with the braking, sure, and it may sound like they're just engine braking. In reality, they're setting up for the turn. You personally do the same thing when on track, I'll wager. It just seems faster due to the fact that the real thing always feels faster and watching videos of other people driving always seems boring and slow, somehow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r1owner View Post
Sorry, coasting while letting the engine slow the car down is not faster around a track then gas-brake-gas.
Again, shades of gray. You're not coasting around the track. But if you're entering a bend where you need to scrub a little speed and all you need to do is lift... Engine braking for the win! Keeps your foot on the same pedal for an instant re-application of throttle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonf4$ View Post
There are MANY advantages to engine braking - if you're driving fast you don't cook your brakes, you scrub off a good amount of speed prior to using them, secondly, it doesn't disrupt the car's inertia as much as touching the brakes, nor will it activate the ABS - in other words you can scrub some speed off without disrupting your line or direction as much. Also, it is very beneficial in inclement weather - like when you're in snow/slush/ice it is safer to gradually stop w/ engine braking before applying brakes rather than applying brakes at a higher rate of speed while coming to a stop.
Agreed, there are definitely advantages. Engine braking has its place.

In short, again, it's not an "engine braking is bad!" or "engine braking is good!" thing. It's "engine braking is useful here" and "over here, not so much". Shades of gray. (No, not the erotic novel.)
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:58 PM   #87
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OK Eidolon.... I'll buy from you.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:18 PM   #88
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You left-foot brake so you can transfer the weight to the front tires at the same time you are hitting the gas to rotate the rear. Much easier in an A6.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:28 PM   #89
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Quote:
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Much easier in an A6.
Agreed. No third pedal in the way.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:29 PM   #90
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The only reason I bought a GXP was to get back into a manual. I'd of bought a GT if it came with a stick.

I've never understood the "auto is faster at the track" theory. How is there any enjoyment or satisfaction in mashing the gas to the floor & keeping the car going straight. Kinda seems like it'd feel like being a passenger, you're just along for the ride while your car is mastering the shifts. I'd rather improve my skills & take pride in my shifting ability, even if it is slower than an auto.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:30 PM   #91
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R1 owner. You downshift on your bike, don't you?
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:09 AM   #92
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Of course I do. But when doing that the braking threshold of the brakes is far greater than the amount of "braking" supplied by the engine.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:31 AM   #93
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Quote:
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I've never understood the "auto is faster at the track" theory. How is there any enjoyment or satisfaction in mashing the gas to the floor & keeping the car going straight. Kinda seems like it'd feel like being a passenger, you're just along for the ride while your car is mastering the shifts. I'd rather improve my skills & take pride in my shifting ability, even if it is slower than an auto.
Are you talking road track or drag strip. Because top fuel dragsters and all of the fastest drag cars have been confirming the "theory" of auto being a faster drag car for many years.

Im not against the guys that have manuals at all. There was a big part of me that wanted a manual trans but in the end commuter traffic kinda made the decision for me.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:00 AM   #94
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Are you talking road track or drag strip. Because top fuel dragsters and all of the fastest drag cars have been confirming the "theory" of auto being a faster drag car for many years.

Im not against the guys that have manuals at all. There was a big part of me that wanted a manual trans but in the end commuter traffic kinda made the decision for me.
Top fuelers have a dry clutch and a one speed gearbox, the clutch setup allows the rpms to be in the meat of the power all the way down the strip.
Prostock has a dry clutch and a planetary gearbox. Nascar runs a dry clutch and a 4 speed gearbox. There is a ton of motorsports that run manuals compared to automatics.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:01 AM   #95
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The pinnacle of motorsports (F1) runs an automated gearbox. Why? Because RACECAR!
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:48 AM   #96
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The pinnacle of motorsports (F1) runs an automated gearbox. Why? Because RACECAR!
Well, that, and I think the only space for a gearshift inside that tiny little cockpit would be right between the drivers legs, and that's just asking for a painful encounter in a wreck.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:53 AM   #97
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Well, that, and I think the only space for a gearshift inside that tiny little cockpit would be right between the drivers legs, and that's just asking for a painful encounter in a wreck.
LOL on the wreck comment. I think they could prolly fit a sequential shift lever in there. I'm pretty sure that's what they used for years.

Even with a sequential box and a clutch lever, most road racers on bikes ran a quickshifter. It has a sensor on it when you go to shift that cuts the ignition for a few milliseconds unloading the gear set, so the next gear can be selected. Therefore no clutch is even needed for upshifts.

Eh, I'm just glad we have the choice! I'll be tracking my manual Cobalt SS next year.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:56 AM   #98
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Top fuelers have a dry clutch and a one speed gearbox, the clutch setup allows the rpms to be in the meat of the power all the way down the strip.
Prostock has a dry clutch and a planetary gearbox. Nascar runs a dry clutch and a 4 speed gearbox. There is a ton of motorsports that run manuals compared to automatics.
Yah I guess my statement was slightly uneducated but i think the point I was trying to get at was the elimination of an actual clutch pedal which also eliminates the time lost when using a clutch pedal to shift gears going down the drag strip.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:53 PM   #99
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Being that I spent the 8 years prior to my G8 purchase in a manual transmission sports car, I'd be lying if I didn't say I spend sometime wishing my GXP had an M6 in it. But...

When you are pulling traffic duty as part of your DD, tell me how fun that M6 is.

Want some versatility in the driver seat, go auto.

I do not want for performance in the A6.

Tranny flare fix aside, I have had zero issues with the 6L80E. I seem to hear about more issues related to the M6 than the A6.

For those who seem to think the A6 is only good for straight line track duty...may I remind you the sport sedan 'Ring record was set by a CTS-V...6L90E automatic.

Manual is fun indeed. And it is cool to have a "domestic" sport sedan with a manual transmission. You'll find the fanboys on either side. I do wish I could have found an M6 at the time I purchased my G8. I do not regret for one moment that I purchased the A6. And I won't go into the situation that has kept me (and still does) from driving a manual for the past year.

Good luck on that hunt.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:39 PM   #100
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Manuals sound cooler running through the gears.

A6 allows easy, natural no-lift shifting on drag strip or road course.
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