Kinda makes you wonder if they guy in the Camaro pulled out just to make them slow down, sort of a "if I get in your way you have to slow down" sorta thing, or if he was just dumb and not paying attention.I feel bad for his family, but IMO he deserved it
Show some class man! Someone lost their life probably driving home from work or something. In NO way can it be considered his fault. If the people had not run a red light he would still be here with his family and friends. Illegal or not it doesnt matter the guys made a very bad choice and the outcome was horrible.
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It was a V6 (it is in the second video on the scene with the reporter talking about the accident)
And in no way did he the guy killed deserve it.. Sometimes I think Polarbear hugger just likes to start ****.
he isn't alive to tell us what he saw, or what was going on.
And when someone is coming that fast you can easily misjudge headlights.
If posted speed limit is 35 to 45 (which I know that it is, Because I use to live real close to that intersection. And a set of headlights is quite a bit away, you can easily make the turn, UNLESS those headlights are moving @ 75 mph+. Hard to judge that if you just take a quick glance.
Could he hae been MORE careful, sure--- but don't for one second try to blame an innocent victim. Classless, pure lack of class.
I'm not saying the guy in the camaro deserved to die but come on if you cant judge the difference between a car coming at you at 35mph and one at 75mph OR you just did not look then you should not be driving. AGain not that I feel the guy deserved to die but it seems like a lot of these street racing accidents with innocent victims are people pulling out in front of cars coming at them @ high speeds.
I'm not saying the guy in the camaro deserved to die but come on if you cant judge the difference between a car coming at you at 35mph and one at 75mph OR you just did not look then you should not be driving. AGain not that I feel the guy deserved to die but it seems like a lot of these street racing accidents with innocent victims are people pulling out in front of cars coming at them @ high speeds.
It sucks the person died, but like the other posters said, we don't know everything about what happened. For all we know, he could have "tried to be a hero". For all we know, he was horribly wrong at judging speed. For all we know, he saw them coming and wanted to join the race.
Point is, they were wrong for street racing, yes. But he was also wrong for turning out in front of them, for whatever reason he turned. Misjudging is no excuse, and is still poor driving. I've seen people misjudge speeds and plow into the sides of passing cars.
Point is, lack of driving skill doesn't make you innocent. Just because he wasn't street racing, doesn't mean he wasn't in the wrong. For all we know, he could have still misjudged headlights moving at 35 mph.
Like I said I feel bad for his family, but he is still largely responsible for the accident.
Put it in this situation... two cars are at a red light and preparing to race at the green light. The light turns green and they take off. Halfway across the intersection, one of the racing cars smashes into a car that ran a red light, because they misjudged a yellow light. For the sake of argument, we'll say the car that got hit was racing, and the driver of that car died, whereas the red light runner did not.. Who is most at fault in that situation?
Acting as if it's 'right' to be using the streets as a personal drag strip.
The privledge of driving is being abused by doing something criminal in it's place.
This criminal act precipitated the chain of events leading to the death.
The person killed is using the streets for it's intended purpose.
I'm pretty confident I'm grasping your analogy.
To show you how silly it is, I'll use my own with your logic.
Someone breaks into my house. Unbeknownst to me he is unarmed. I shoot and kill him thinking he is.
I'm wrong for protecting my family's welfare and not asking if he was armed first.
You see, his criminal act precipitated the chain of events.
Acting as if it's 'right' to be using the streets as a personal drag strip.
The privledge of driving is being abused by doing something criminal in it's place.
This criminal act precipitated the chain of events leading to the death.
The person killed is using the streets for it's intended purpose.
I'm pretty confident I'm grasping your analogy.
To show you how silly it is, I'll use my own with your logic.
Someone breaks into my house. Unbeknownst to me he is unarmed. I shoot and kill him thinking he is.
I'm wrong for protecting my family's welfare and not asking if he was armed first.
You see, his criminal act precipitated the chain of events.
Why does it matter if the cars where street racing or not? IT could have just as easily been someone speeding on the way home from work and it would have ended in the same result. My point was people need to pay attention when driving and a lot of accidents can be avoided.
Why does it matter if the cars where street racing or not? IT could have just as easily been someone speeding on the way home from work and it would have ended in the same result. My point was people need to pay attention when driving and a lot of accidents can be avoided.
It doesn't. Speeding is criminal as well.
Going to a baseball game and getting hit by a foul ball is a reasonable expectation.
Navigating a street with a 35mph speed limit and having someone grossly exceeding that is not a reasonable expectation.
That's why police get them off the street when the encounter them. It's deadly and shouldn't be happening.
Pay attention - fair enough.
However as stated already we don't know the specifics here.
Don't get me started on people driving while reading, putting on makeup, petting the dog on the steering wheel, drinking hot soup....etc.
These people here were shooting into a crowd. The bullet hit something this time. It's something that they shouldn't have been doing in the first place.
Acting as if it's 'right' to be using the streets as a personal drag strip.
The privledge of driving is being abused by doing something criminal in it's place.
This criminal act precipitated the chain of events leading to the death.
The person killed is using the streets for it's intended purpose.
I'm pretty confident I'm grasping your analogy.
To show you how silly it is, I'll use my own with your logic.
Someone breaks into my house. Unbeknownst to me he is unarmed. I shoot and kill him thinking he is.
I'm wrong for protecting my family's welfare and not asking if he was armed first.
You see, his criminal act precipitated the chain of events.
I kind of agree with you but the whole home invasion thing has me going huh?
I do race on the street, but I try to get people to follow me off the busy and bad roads. You just have to be smart about it and if you do get busted most cops are sympathetic here if you're using a little common sense. Although I don't believe that relieves other drivers of their responsibilities. When you get on the road you do so with the knowledge that other drivers make mistakes and are even doing things that they shouldn't which means you NEED to pay attention at all times and remove all distractions, ie don't talk on the GD phone while driving! However, all things in perceptive with this incident, racing a damn Jeep (other than an SRT) is just retarded to begin with and says a lot about the experience of the drivers involved in this incident. I mean I can see the driver of the Camaro pulling out in front thinking he had enough time but if other drivers were paying attention and had any kind of a reaction time they should have been able to avoid a fatality unless they were doing 100+mph and in that case they have no business with a license if their judgment is that poor. I was hit head on by a girl who JUMPED (like 4-5') a hill and NEVER let off the gas until she knew she was going to hit me head on and then swerved and went full brake causing the backend to skid and accelerate in the front of my truck. (Think about a baseball bat swinging into something) I walked away, or rather limped, with no serious injuries because I was paying attention and was nearly at a dead stop when she hit. She on the other hand was ejected from her car after it flipped and is now brain dead (not that she wasn't before). Now if I had been speeding and not paying attention I can tell you without a doubt I would be dead or would have suffered permanent injury. While the law says it would have totally been her fault for reckless driving and coming into my lane, common sense tells you I would have also been at fault for not paying attention/speeding. The point I'm trying to make is that usually for these fatalities to occur like this it usually takes negligence on both sides and if either side would have used just a little common sense the death could have been avoided.
So when you're driving OR racing on the street do so expecting the other drivers to do something dumb. Otherwise you will eventually be filtered out through natural selection.
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I kind of agree with you but the whole home invasion thing has me going huh?
I do race on the street, but I try to get people to follow me off the busy and bad roads. You just have to be smart about it and if you do get busted most cops are sympathetic here if you're using a little common sense. Although I don't believe that relieves other drivers of their responsibilities. When you get on the road you do so with the knowledge that other drivers make mistakes and are even doing things that they shouldn't which means you NEED to pay attention at all times and remove all distractions, ie don't talk on the GD phone while driving! However, all things in perceptive with this incident, racing a damn Jeep (other than an SRT) is just retarded to begin with and says a lot about the experience of the drivers involved in this incident. I mean I can see the driver of the Camaro pulling out in front thinking he had enough time but if other drivers were paying attention and had any kind of a reaction time they should have been able to avoid a fatality unless they were doing 100+mph and in that case they have no business with a license if their judgment is that poor. I was hit head on by a girl who JUMPED (like 4-5') a hill and NEVER let off the gas until she knew she was going to hit me head on and then swerved and went full brake causing the backend to skid and accelerate in the front of my truck. (Think about a baseball bat swinging into something) I walked away, or rather limped, with no serious injuries because I was paying attention and was nearly at a dead stop when she hit. She on the other hand was ejected from her car after it flipped and is now brain dead (not that she wasn't before). Now if I had been speeding and not paying attention I can tell you without a doubt I would be dead or would have suffered permanent injury. While the law says it would have totally been her fault for reckless driving and coming into my lane, common sense tells you I would have also been at fault for not paying attention/speeding. The point I'm trying to make is that usually for these fatalities to occur like this it usually takes negligence on both sides and if either side would have used just a little common sense the death could have been avoided.
So when you're driving OR racing on the street do so expecting the other drivers to do something dumb. Otherwise you will eventually be filtered out through natural selection.
The racers didn't have enough time to stop for someone pulling out in front of them.
That happens sometimes, no big deal it's an accident. The case here, they were doing something criminal.
Those criminal speeds directly resulted in a death. If they were going the speed limit, it most likely would've
been a fender bender or slightly worse.
The criminal act precipitated the chain of events.
If they were obeying the law, the resulting chain of events most likely would not have resulted in a death.
In the home invasion analogy, I was using the logic presented in his arguement. In that case, I'd be at
fault. (which is silly)
Again, the criminal act precipitated the chain of events.
cause and effect
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. I don't know what else to say.
DeShazer said that Hernandez-Castellanos, who was not involved in the accident, initially left the scene, but then returned.
"He could have kept going and no one would have known," DeShazer said. "It says something about his character that he came back."
So the G8 didn't hit anything. The driver of the G8 came back to the accident scene when he could have kept going. I agree, it does say something about his character. Should have NEVER been racing like that, should have NEVER run a red light, ever, period. end of story. Very sad for the other driver.
The racers didn't have enough time to stop for someone pulling out in front of them.
That happens sometimes, no big deal it's an accident. The case here, they were doing something criminal.
Those criminal speeds directly resulted in a death. If they were going the speed limit, it most likely would've
been a fender bender or slightly worse.
The criminal act precipitated the chain of events.
If they were obeying the law, the resulting chain of events most likely would not have resulted in a death.
In the home invasion analogy, I was using the logic presented in his arguement. In that case, I'd be at
fault. (which is silly)
Again, the criminal act precipitated the chain of events.
cause and effect
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. I don't know what else to say.
Well what I get out of reading that story is that the Camaro was committed to turning sat through the light the light changed to red on him as the two racing run the red light. Running the red light or even running through an intersection at anykind of "racing" speeds is moronic. Turning across traffic when you see two idiots racing towards you goes against that common sense thing and paying attention to whats going on. Unfortunately, that bad judgment or lapse in attention cost that driver his life. A high price to pay but you OBVIOUSLY have to be aware of that anytime you get into a car. As for the others racing I'm sure they'll get what they have coming to them for making such a poor decision as to racing through an intersection and running a red light. I'm not saying the guys racing don't deserve whatever comes their way and I'm not saying the driver of the Camaro deserved to die I'm just saying that he is obviously also at fault to a degree, maybe not by the law (though I actually think he is since he did also technically run that red light) but by common sense.
The best analogy I can think of, is if your pulling onto the highway and you do the bare minimum speed limit, ie 45mph and someone doing 75 - 80mph rear ends you by all counts of the law you are not at fault but by all counts of common sense you are at fault because you know damn well that is not an acceptable highway speed regardless of the law.
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96 Dark Cherry Impala SS (SLP exhaust, bigger injectors & tune, Trans Am Air Intake)
08 PBM G8 GT /w Premium Package (20x8.5 Diablo Delta Force rims, H&R Springs, Magnaflow 16887 Stainless Steel Street cat-back exhaust, GXP rear diffuser, chrome deleted from grill & window trim, rebadged)
Dude most accidents can be avoided. Not everyone has their super dooper defensive driving shoes on.
I think I am a good driver, but I am sure I am less vigilant at some time more than others. That doesn't mean that I deserve to die, because I have no reasonable expectation to run into someone doing something not just illegal, but very seldom seen.
How often do you see people doing 75mph running red lights..
I see that only when watching a cop chase on the news. If you see it more, then I am sorry for the crappy neighborhood you live in.
With your (Polarbear hugboy) theory.. Almost every accident has no party to feel sympathy for.
It's cool (not really) that you are soo bad ass, and heartless than you can actually sit their with a straight face and type BS
PolarQueen's example: I know the woman pushing the stroller had the right away, but she should have looked both ways, then her baby wouldn't have been killed by the guy texting on his phone and not paying attention to the pedistrian and her right away.. I feel no pitty for the woman. How crazy does that sound..
Its not illegal to pull out into the road. From the little info we know it appears he didn't do anything wrong.
He was simply a victim.
Not every person that gets hit is at fault or even partially at fault.
"I have no reasonable expectation to run into someone doing something not just illegal, but very seldom seen."
If you drive around with that mentality you seriously need to pay attention to what is going on. And people run red lights regularly in ANY neighborhood, maybe not at 75mph but when I'm committed to turn and the light changes to red on me I EXPECT for the oncoming traffic to run the light otherwise I'd be buying a car every week.
Also when you are in the middle of the intersection like that and the light turns red that is technically running a red light.
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96 Dark Cherry Impala SS (SLP exhaust, bigger injectors & tune, Trans Am Air Intake)
08 PBM G8 GT /w Premium Package (20x8.5 Diablo Delta Force rims, H&R Springs, Magnaflow 16887 Stainless Steel Street cat-back exhaust, GXP rear diffuser, chrome deleted from grill & window trim, rebadged)
Last edited by BrandonG777; 07-16-2009 at 04:48 PM.
The more I read the replies here the more I become terrified to drive given the mindset of some people here with 360+ HP under their right foot wrapped in two tons of Australian sheet metal.
The car and SUV were street racing. That is illegal. PERIOD.
The car and SUV were speeding at almost twice the limit. That is illegal. PERIOD.
The car and SUV approached a light saw it red and BOTH drivers made a decision to run the red light. That is illegal. PERIOD.
The car and SUV ran the red light going double the speed limit. That is moronic.
A person with a green light should reasonable expect not to have a SUV cut through their car that ran a red light and was going double the speed limit. PERIOD.
To somehow try to blame the driver in the car that got broadsided is mind blowing to me. They should have looked, they shouldn't have assumed, they should have...none of that matters give the statements of fact above.
PERIOD.
If somehow you think that it is OK to street race, OK to plow into a car after running a red light broadside and kill the driver and then spin it as the fault of the car that had the right of way, or even try to spin it...please...trade in your G8 for a Honda Insight, Toyota Prius or some other grossly underpowered car. You don't have the right mentality to be driving 360+ HP.
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