Street racing disaster involving a G8

[jaxredg8]

Originally Posted by Seattle09GT

The more I read the replies here the more I become terrified to drive given the mindset of some people here with 360+ HP under their right foot wrapped in two tons of Australian sheet metal.

The car and SUV were street racing. That is illegal. PERIOD.

The car and SUV were speeding at almost twice the limit. That is illegal. PERIOD.

The car and SUV approached a light saw it red and BOTH drivers made a decision to run the red light. That is illegal. PERIOD.

The car and SUV ran the red light going double the speed limit. That is moronic.

A person with a green light should reasonable expect not to have a SUV cut through their car that ran a red light and was going double the speed limit. PERIOD.

To somehow try to blame the driver in the car that got broadsided is mind blowing to me. They should have looked, they shouldn't have assumed, they should have...none of that matters give the statements of fact above.

PERIOD.

If somehow you think that it is OK to street race, OK to plow into a car after running a red light broadside and kill the driver and then spin it as the fault of the car that had the right of way, or even try to spin it...please...trade in your G8 for a Honda Insight, Toyota Prius or some other grossly underpowered car. You don't have the right mentality to be driving 360+ HP.

Couldnt have said it better! Coulda, shoulda, woulda....... stop the stupid ****. They were wrong. A guy is dead because of it. Period!

[fiveoh]

Originally Posted by Seattle09GT

The more I read the replies here the more I become terrified to drive given the mindset of some people here with 360+ HP under their right foot wrapped in two tons of Australian sheet metal.

The car and SUV were street racing. That is illegal. PERIOD.

The car and SUV were speeding at almost twice the limit. That is illegal. PERIOD.

The car and SUV approached a light saw it red and BOTH drivers made a decision to run the red light. That is illegal. PERIOD.

The car and SUV ran the red light going double the speed limit. That is moronic.

A person with a green light should reasonable expect not to have a SUV cut through their car that ran a red light and was going double the speed limit. PERIOD.

To somehow try to blame the driver in the car that got broadsided is mind blowing to me. They should have looked, they shouldn't have assumed, they should have...none of that matters give the statements of fact above.

PERIOD.

If somehow you think that it is OK to street race, OK to plow into a car after running a red light broadside and kill the driver and then spin it as the fault of the car that had the right of way, or even try to spin it...please...trade in your G8 for a Honda Insight, Toyota Prius or some other grossly underpowered car. You don't have the right mentality to be driving 360+ HP.

I think you are missing the point here. I dont think anyone is saying it was ok for them to be racing or running red lights or running into people. All we are saying is the guy might still be alive if he was paying more attention. IT IS THE PEOPLE THAT WHERE RACING'S FAULT that he died and that was not ok and they should be tried for it. People do dumb ****, always expect the worst and pay attention to what is going on around you.

[Seattle09GT]

Originally Posted by fiveoh

I think you are missing the point here. I dont think anyone is saying it was ok for them to be racing or running red lights or running into people. All we are saying is the guy might still be alive if he was paying more attention. IT IS THE PEOPLE THAT WHERE RACING'S FAULT that he died and that was not ok and they should be tried for it. People do dumb ****, always expect the worst and pay attention to what is going on around you.

Oh no, I get it, and your logic is quite twisted. If I lived in your world where it appears that it is "reasonable" to expect two morons to blast through a red light at 75 MPH, then I should come to a dead stop at every green light I come to, count to five and THEN go. The world doesn't work that way.

Here is a hint. Real simple. The other drive would still be alive IF TWO IDIOTS WEREN'T STREET RACING AND RAN A RED LIGHT.

Anything else is insanity or weak justification for driving with an asshat on.

S09GT -- who's brother was killed by a guy who ran a red light and broadsided him while he was on a motorcycle. Guy who ran the red light was speeding and drunk and dragged my brother 1/4 of a mile under his car. Gee, I guess it wasn't REASONABLE for my brother to not expect a speeding drunk to go crashing through a red light. I guess it is my BROTHER'S fault. I want my ****ing brother back.

[Perhaps]

Seattle09GT
My sincere regards for your brother.
I can see how something like that would make you passionate about something like this.


Topic:
The guy might have been paying attention, might not have been.
Accidents happen all the time. Again, the difference here is somebody was killed. He was killed because of those criminal speeds.

Maybe this question needs to be answered -
Who put the braking distances and reaction times in the toilet here?

Sure wasn't the guy who died. It should've just been an insurance claim here.
Speed limits, traffic laws & automobile safety regulations are in place so people walk away from stuff like this. The racers deserve the blame here guys.

[fiveoh]

Originally Posted by Seattle09GT

Oh no, I get it, and your logic is quite twisted. If I lived in your world where it appears that it is "reasonable" to expect two morons to blast through a red light at 75 MPH, then I should come to a dead stop at every green light I come to, count to five and THEN go. The world doesn't work that way.

Here is a hint. Real simple. The other drive would still be alive IF TWO IDIOTS WEREN'T STREET RACING AND RAN A RED LIGHT.

Anything else is insanity or weak justification for driving with an asshat on.

S09GT -- who's brother was killed by a guy who ran a red light and broadsided him while he was on a motorcycle. Guy who ran the red light was speeding and drunk and dragged my brother 1/4 of a mile under his car. Gee, I guess it wasn't REASONABLE for my brother to not expect a speeding drunk to go crashing through a red light. I guess it is my BROTHER'S fault. I want my ****ing brother back.

I guess we disagree or are not understanding each other. I'm done with this thread. I'm sorry to hear about your brother.

[MABg8ter]

I think that you guys are so caught up on the fact that the guy died that you're missing the point. It's terrible that he died, but the fact of the matter is that something like this could have been avoided at many times. They should not have been racing, obviously. The guy should not have turned out in front of them. It's likely that had he been in a number of other cars he would have survived. If a butterfly flapped its wings in China he might have been looking in his glovebox for something while they passed. Who knows. Point is, there is fault to go around to everyone in this situation. The story I read said he turned when all the lights were red, implying that he turned from seeing their lights turn red, and guestimating the amount of time he had to wait. A careful, cautious driver would have waited until after the light had turned green for a few seconds to make sure all oncoming cars, in fact, stopped.

All thing considered, this guy was not an innocent party. An innocent party would be the guy on his way to work that gets eaten by a jack-knifed semi because a car cuts off said semi (which happens with disturbing frequency here). An innocent victim is the kid thrown from a car because his parent didn't put them in a child seat. An innocent victim would be the family of the deceased. But not the guy who was too careless/assumptive to think that the he could just turn whenever he felt like it. The fact that he was hit in the side says that they were likely very close when he started to go, close enough to notice them with ease and close enough to notice they're going way faster than they will be able to stop from before the light.

The end result is this. The street racing was wrong. The not looking was wrong. The guy who didn't look died, but that doesn't make him automatically not at all to blame. They all share blame. They two guys who were racing should be prosecuted for sure, but if the guy had lived, he should have been prosecuted too.

[dal20402]

Originally Posted by MABg8ter

The end result is this. The street racing was wrong. The not looking was wrong. The guy who didn't look died, but that doesn't make him automatically not at all to blame. They all share blame. They two guys who were racing should be prosecuted for sure, but if the guy had lived, he should have been prosecuted too.

Even assuming for the sake of argument that it was reasonable to expect the victim to see the perps and understand their ridiculous speed (which I'm not convinced of at all), no one is prosecuted for misjudging the speed of an oncoming car. That is grounds for a ticket, not a criminal prosecution.

Street racing that involves going double the speed limit through intersections and running red lights, on the other hand, is really a crime.

[jaxredg8]

I have heard some of the most assinine excuses of why the guy who was killed was partially, or any, at fault. Like has been said, no one expects on a residential street to have cars doing twice the speed limit. And as far as defensive driving and always paying attention, yes you should. But like has been said in this very thread, you cant see all the possibilities that could happen. Hell, if you could even be taught how to do this, there would never be any ACCIDENTS. But this wasnt an accident. This was 2 guys breaking multiple laws and taking out an innocent victim.

And Seattle09, sorry to hear about your brother. My uncle was also killed by a drunk driver who crossed double yellow lines over a hill and hit him dead on. But I guess he should have anticipated that coming!

This thread was started just to put out information and has taken a turn for the worse. My last .02 for this one.

[MABg8ter]

You can see that two cars are going way faster than they should be on a residential street. That should trigger some sort of "wtf?" reaction in a normal person paying attention, which would keep a reasonable person from pulling out in front of them.

I also think there's a big difference between a drunk driver and a street racer. With a street racer, you can typically see what they're doing and they will be somewhat predictable. The drunk driver, all bets are off. They have no control over the car, or themselves.

The really sick part is that the punishment for the street racers is lesser than the drunk drivers (which are responsible for more crashes and fatalities as well). But politicians and other ****heads find it easier to make the average american more afraid of street racing than driving drunk, so they can make more of a great evil out of it. Very sad indeed. I've gone on record many times saying that there should be a 0 tolerance DUI policy, you get pulled over, you lose your license for good, and are never allowed to drive again. You DUI and kill someone in an accident, you get executed, no appeals, no stay of execution, no pardons, you go to your grave within a week of conviction.

I'm sure someone will think that's terrible too, and try to say that it's less wrong to drive drunk than street race, but I disagree.

Someone mentioned something about closing off roads for street racing (like in the movies). I've never understood why local police don't do this in areas without local drag strips. Most places have tons of places that are perfect for this, and some sort of organization and safety officials and such is a much better thing to have happening than a bunch of people just out racing randomly. In places without a local race track, this seems like a no brainer.

[Seattle09GT]

So here is what I've learned from this thread. Knock on wood, if I ever get in an at fault accident I will yell at the other driver for getting in my way and not knowing better. If I ever get in an accident not my fault I will apologize on the spot to the driver who hit me for being in their way - oh soooo sorry about this.

Seriously ready to quit this site over this thread. I'm done with it.

Suggest the mods lock it - no good will come from further discussion.

[BluYa76]

Wow, how f'ing stupid can "some" people be! Let me ask this question: HAS ANYONE DRIVEN, SEEN, OR KNOW HOW THE TRAFFIC PATTERN IS WHERE THIS ACCIDENT OCCURRED?

NO

Again we don't know what happened or what the scene looks like at night. So stop ASSuming what you don't know!!!

[jrc1122]

I use to live in Aurora, and Periora was a busy road, a main road a matter of fact.

Anyone doing 75 on Perioria has a death wish--

With Polarbear queens analogy- the guy who didn't expect 2 assclowns to be flying @75mph and blowing through red lights- well he had a death wish too.

Seattle- I don't agree with on all your posts, but I am 100% in agreement with you on this.

without a count, i would say we are 10 to 1 odds on the people who actually want to put some sort of blame on the guy who got killed by massive injuries.

Accidents are almost always mulitple parties fault, I get that... but to say you feel bad for his family, but not for him is just dumb.

and honestly trollish.. No one really thinks that... You seem to always be on the super controversial side of the debate. why is that MAB??

[BrandonG777]

Originally Posted by MABg8ter

around to everyone in this situation. The story I read said he turned when all the lights were red, implying that he turned from seeing their lights turn red, and guestimating the amount of time he had to wait. A careful, cautious driver would have waited until after the light had turned green for a few seconds to make sure all oncoming cars, in fact, stopped.

Dude, I think we're the only two here that seem to grasp that all THREE parties involved actually broke the law. Saying that the guy in the Camaro should have been paying more attention or made a bad call, people think we're saying we don't have compassion or are trying to justify the actions of the other guys. Obviously we have a reading comprehension problem here or perhaps just a comprehension problem all together so just give up and move on. They'll figure it out when that speeding idiot comes flying towards their car and they're stuck in the "you shouldn't be doing that" mentality. Like my story I shared about the girl hitting me head on even though I was completely in the right if I had not been paying 100% attention to the road I can guarantee I wouldn't be here. I'd be up in heaven going I didn't do anything wrong, that's was totally her fault, I was obeying every law and everything. But like I said just give it up and move on, they'll figure it out or be the next victim of natural selection.

[jrc1122]

well in case anyone missed the common sense line, i will share some with you.

IF- the Camaro broke any law-- It appears to be a traffic violation. Maybe 75 bucks and call it a day.

The Racers DID break the law and their actions were criminal. That speed (especially on a street like Peoria is extremely dangerous.. Even if the didn't kill anyone. If a cop would have saw them doing 75 blowing through red lights, their car would be impounded and they would be going to jail, and they would have to face a judge and explain why they were putting everyone's life at risk.


If one guy is Jay Walking (Illegal) and another guy comes up and stabs in the throat and steals his wallet. Yes technically two people broke the law. But that doesn't mean they hold the same weight. If the Jay walker hadn't have been Jay walking he wouldn't have ever crossed paths with the other guy.. That doesn't negate the fact that the other guy was a murderer and a thief.

This isn't about fault or not, I think we all can conclude that if those to Illegals weren't racing their cars we wouldn't be posting this.

You've never misjudged a light, or said, ooh this is going to be close- But slamming on the brakes was about equally a bad option. I know I have.

DO I DESERVE TO DIE< because I occasionally run a red light.
Flip me off, cuss me. give me the WTF look.. But don't wish death on me.

MAB and BRANDON-- If it had been a family member who happen to be in the path of the two illegals doing 75+ -- I think you wouldn't not feel sorry for the victim..

Stop trolling! Just admit you are trying to get people all stirred up over nothing.

[marcgo2]

Originally Posted by jrc1122

well in case anyone missed the common sense line, i will share some with you.

IF- the Camaro broke any law-- It appears to be a traffic violation. Maybe 75 bucks and call it a day.

The Racers DID break the law and their actions were criminal. That speed (especially on a street like Peoria is extremely dangerous.. Even if the didn't kill anyone. If a cop would have saw them doing 75 blowing through red lights, their car would be impounded and they would be going to jail, and they would have to face a judge and explain why they were putting everyone's life at risk.


If one guy is Jay Walking (Illegal) and another guy comes up and stabs in the throat and steals his wallet. Yes technically two people broke the law. But that doesn't mean they hold the same weight. If the Jay walker hadn't have been Jay walking he wouldn't have ever crossed paths with the other guy.. That doesn't negate the fact that the other guy was a murderer and a thief.

This isn't about fault or not, I think we all can conclude that if those to Illegals weren't racing their cars we wouldn't be posting this.

You've never misjudged a light, or said, ooh this is going to be close- But slamming on the brakes was about equally a bad option. I know I have.

DO I DESERVE TO DIE< because I occasionally run a red light.
Flip me off, cuss me. give me the WTF look.. But don't wish death on me.

MAB and BRANDON-- If it had been a family member who happen to be in the path of the two illegals doing 75+ -- I think you wouldn't not feel sorry for the victim..

Stop trolling! Just admit you are trying to get people all stirred up over nothing.

I agree. This is simple, if no one had been racing, no one would have died.

[BrandonG777]

Originally Posted by jrc1122

well in case anyone missed the common sense line, i will share some with you.

IF- the Camaro broke any law-- It appears to be a traffic violation. Maybe 75 bucks and call it a day.

The Racers DID break the law and their actions were criminal. That speed (especially on a street like Peoria is extremely dangerous.. Even if the didn't kill anyone. If a cop would have saw them doing 75 blowing through red lights, their car would be impounded and they would be going to jail, and they would have to face a judge and explain why they were putting everyone's life at risk.


If one guy is Jay Walking (Illegal) and another guy comes up and stabs in the throat and steals his wallet. Yes technically two people broke the law. But that doesn't mean they hold the same weight. If the Jay walker hadn't have been Jay walking he wouldn't have ever crossed paths with the other guy.. That doesn't negate the fact that the other guy was a murderer and a thief.

This isn't about fault or not, I think we all can conclude that if those to Illegals weren't racing their cars we wouldn't be posting this.

You've never misjudged a light, or said, ooh this is going to be close- But slamming on the brakes was about equally a bad option. I know I have.

DO I DESERVE TO DIE< because I occasionally run a red light.
Flip me off, cuss me. give me the WTF look.. But don't wish death on me.

MAB and BRANDON-- If it had been a family member who happen to be in the path of the two illegals doing 75+ -- I think you wouldn't not feel sorry for the victim..

Stop trolling! Just admit you are trying to get people all stirred up over nothing.

Jesus christ, it's called reading comprehension. I never said anything that you are implying.

[jaxredg8]

Originally Posted by BrandonG777

Jesus christ, it's called reading comprehension. I never said anything that you are implying.

You were right earlier. Only you and mabg8ter share the same opinion so you two pm each other and for gods sake let the mediators shut this thread down.

[PaFromFL]

It's too late for those involved in the accident. This thread should serve as a reminder that drivers can disobey traffic laws, make bad decisions, get distracted, and make honest mistakes. If you are aware of the total traffic picture and expect the worst, you can prevent accidents.

[BrandonG777]

Originally Posted by jaxredg8

You were right earlier. Only you and mabg8ter share the same opinion so you two pm each other and for gods sake let the mediators shut this thread down.

Again, that reading comprehension thing. I guess they don't teach that at Ohio State?

I have agreed with 99.9% of your "if they weren't racing no one would have been killed" argument. I was simply pointing out that there is another lesson to be learned here but everyone but a few seem to grasp it.

Take a defensive driving class perhaps they can explain it better.

[BrandonG777]

Originally Posted by PaFromFL

It's too late for those involved in the accident. This thread should serve as a reminder that drivers can disobey traffic laws, make bad decisions, get distracted, and make honest mistakes. If you are aware of the total traffic picture and expect the worst, you can prevent accidents.

Holy crap. Someone finally got it!!