Chevy Volt

[nikeair042]

Anyone else think it will be a cool car and would consider buying? No clue on price but its the 1st hybrid/electric car that doesnt look like hell.








"With use of a small internal combustion engine driving a generator to resupply the batteries, the vehicle's range is potentially increased to 640 miles"

"The Volt was targeted to cost around $30,000. As of April 2008, General Motors Vice Chairman of Global Product Development Robert Lutz was quoted as saying that the realistic unsubsidised cost had risen to $48K,[9] that he reckoned that $40,000 might be possible, without making any profit, and that only government tax incentives could take the price tag nearer to $30,000."

General Motors said it will have the Volt on the market in 2010

[nikeair042]

front reminds me of the new camaro. back end could use some work

[HardEight]

no telling what it will look like in a couple of years. but it would still be neat to have. i would hardly ever use gas in that thing, since my commute is about 4 miles on way.

[Atlas]

at that price, they might have to rebadge it as a caddy...

[pinski]

For my daily commute, the gas engine would only have to kick on for about 10 miles. If gas prices continue to spiral upwards, I'd buy one - especially if the government will subsidize it and/or give me tax credits.

[nikeair042]

i drive 70 miles a day..ouch.. so that thing would help

[tjccpa]

Originally Posted by pinski

For my daily commute, the gas engine would only have to kick on for about 10 miles. If gas prices continue to spiral upwards, I'd buy one - especially if the government will subsidize it and/or give me tax credits.

If, by the government, you mean utilizing tax dollars to help you buy a car, you should re-think your premise. The conversion to alternative fuels has to take place in a purely economic fashion in order for it to work. Each alternative must be able to stand on its own merits in front of the market to let consumers make decisions fairly. I don't want to have my tax dollars helping anyone buy a $48,000 dollar car!!!!!

[h3llphyre]

Originally Posted by tjccpa

If, by the government, you mean utilizing tax dollars to help you buy a car, you should re-think your premise. The conversion to alternative fuels has to take place in a purely economic fashion in order for it to work. Each alternative must be able to stand on its own merits in front of the market to let consumers make decisions fairly. I don't want to have my tax dollars helping anyone buy a $48,000 dollar car!!!!!

Which is exactly what the market is doing on its own right now. High oil prices (artificial or not) is driving the alternatives. Let the market take care of itself, like it has for over a century now.

[pinski]

Originally Posted by tjccpa

If, by the government, you mean utilizing tax dollars to help you buy a car, you should re-think your premise. The conversion to alternative fuels has to take place in a purely economic fashion in order for it to work. Each alternative must be able to stand on its own merits in front of the market to let consumers make decisions fairly. I don't want to have my tax dollars helping anyone buy a $48,000 dollar car!!!!!

Heh - I don't either. But if you get the right sort of people in the White House, Senate and House, that sort of thing could happen. Of course, it would be part of a bill that's designed to save the environment and reduce carbon monoxide and other emissions.

Of course, to fund such legislation, the government would have to take/raise the money from somewhere - probably would try to take most of it from CAFE penalties incurred by other automakers. Of course, they could also issue a CAFE credit for a certain amount for automakers that sell such vehicles as the Volt. For example, if GM failed to meet the 35mpg criterion, they would pay (I'm just pulling a number out of my ass here) $5MM. For every Volt they sell, the government could knock, say, $10,000 off that bill - and dictate that GM passes some of that credit along to the purchaser of that vehicle.

[mr_didgers]

What will be interesting is how the production Volt looks compared to the concept.

[yevot]

Is this on GM's skateboard platform or is that not ready yet?

CAFE. Gas Guzzler Tax. Severe restrictions on nuclear power. Restrictions on oil drilling. Carbon credits. Huge subsidies on alternative energy. Any subsidies on private vehicles. Screw you, Washington. Go find something better to do with your time than raise taxes and take international loans in our name so you can impose even more restrictions and give us a few hundred bucks, as if that'll fix the market.

[h3llphyre]

Originally Posted by pinski

Heh - I don't either. But if you get the right sort of people in the White House, Senate and House, that sort of thing could happen. Of course, it would be part of a bill that's designed to save the environment and reduce carbon monoxide and other emissions.

Of course, to fund such legislation, the government would have to take/raise the money from somewhere - probably would try to take most of it from CAFE penalties incurred by other automakers. Of course, they could also issue a CAFE credit for a certain amount for automakers that sell such vehicles as the Volt. For example, if GM failed to meet the 35mpg criterion, they would pay (I'm just pulling a number out of my ass here) $5MM. For every Volt they sell, the government could knock, say, $10,000 off that bill - and dictate that GM passes some of that credit along to the purchaser of that vehicle.

Here's something funny... CAFE is the fleet standard. If the Volt operates for 50 miles off NO gasoline, it technically gets infinity mpg. This means the fleet average is infinity, which means they should never have to pay a CAFE fee again. Hell, they only need ONE electric vehicle to do this.

I wonder how they plug that hole?

[yevot]

Originally Posted by h3llphyre

Here's something funny... CAFE is the fleet standard. If the Volt operates for 50 miles off NO gasoline, it technically gets infinity mpg. This means the fleet average is infinity, which means they should never have to pay a CAFE fee again. Hell, they only need ONE electric vehicle to do this.

I wonder how they plug that hole?

I doubt that there's a loophole that large. It's probably total miles/total gallons in some fashion. If there was an SUV that went 75 miles on 5 gallons and the Volt went 50 on 0, I would imagine the corporate mpg would be 125/5, not 15+∞/2.

[h3llphyre]

Originally Posted by yevot

I doubt that there's a loophole that large. It's probably total miles/total gallons in some fashion. If there was an SUV that went 75 miles on 5 gallons and the Volt went 50 on 0, I would imagine the corporate mpg would be 125/5, not 15+∞/2.

What's 5 divided by zero? LOL

[r1owner]

IF and that's a big if the gov't subsidizes the volt, then they should also put a bill in that requires any dealer that charges over sticker to reimburse the govt' up to the subsidy amount.

[lonewolfz28]

I like it. I may get one down the road if I still have to commute.

[davefr]

Originally Posted by tjccpa

If, by the government, you mean utilizing tax dollars to help you buy a car, you should re-think your premise. The conversion to alternative fuels has to take place in a purely economic fashion in order for it to work. Each alternative must be able to stand on its own merits in front of the market to let consumers make decisions fairly. I don't want to have my tax dollars helping anyone buy a $48,000 dollar car!!!!!

I basically agree but I also think it would be appropriate for some form of "jump start" tax credit. The technology, R&D and tooling is incredibly expensive. The sooner high volume economies can be reached, the sooner cost will come down and make this vehicle affordable to the masses. At that point let it stand on it's own.

The government does reep benefit from vehicles like these. (military, environmental, economic).

GM will need to sell these at a loss initially and I think the government should consider some short term tax credit incentive.

[h3llphyre]

Originally Posted by davefr

I basically agree but I also think it would be appropriate for some form of "jump start" tax credit. The technology, R&D and tooling is incredibly expensive. The sooner high volume economies can be reached, the sooner cost will come down and make this vehicle affordable to the masses. At that point let it stand on it's own.

Technology, R&D, and tooling is expensive for EVERY car. This is no different. If the market can't hold the price of the technology, then it shouldn't see the light of day.

The government does reep benefit from vehicles like these. (military, environmental, economic).

Military has its own version, has for a VERY long time, and is developing its own systems that are WAY more advanced then the Volt. I know cuz I've seen it.

GM will need to sell these at a loss initially and I think the government should consider some short term tax credit incentive.

And you hit the nail on the head. GM is looking to make their life easier here, by asking for a handout. You're not helping the consumer, you're helping GM.

[yevot]

Originally Posted by h3llphyre

What's 5 divided by zero? LOL

it's undefined, actually, not infinity.. but where are you going with that, anyway?

[appletonrc]

I was actually shooting emails back and forth with a buddy regarding the volt. I found a stat that it had the capacity of 16 KWh, at 8 cents/kwh to charge it, 40 miles a day (the range of battery only), you could run the car for $1.28/day (charging it). Compare that to best case G8 GT (24 MPG), $4/gal, 40 miles round trip, you are at $6.60/day, or saving $4.86 a day on gas.. 5 day work week, thats $24.33 in you pocket, 52 weeks in a year... $1265 in your pocket. Turn that around into solar panels your house, in 10 years, you are charging your car for free! At that time, you are ready for a new car, but with solar panels you won't pay a dime to run it!

Ok, so it assumes that the $130/barrel oil isn't going to make our utility rates sky rocket, or if everyone buys a volt, then there is suddenly a huge demand for power over night.

I'm interested, the price scares me though. $10/gal gas makes it more realistic.