I wanna invert the Manu-Matic shifter function.... - Pontiac G8 Forum: G8 Forums - G8Board.com
 
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:44 AM   #1
NTrails
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Wink I wanna invert the Manu-Matic shifter function....

I have read here and the other forums that many of y'all feel as I do... that the function of the Manu-Matic shifter is bass-ackwards. The natural inertia of a car when down-shifted is to slow down, thereby causing all contents therein to be flung forward, and when a vehicle is up-shifted, the contents are generally moved rearward. Therefore, the shifter should logically follow these physics properties to be the most natural fit for it's functionality. Unfortunately, the powers that be (dare I say were) somehow decided that the opposite direction of the shift lever made more sense and made all our cars basically BACKWARDS! (BTW... GM is not alone in this error of perception... several other auto manufacturers have done it this backward approach towards sequential shift levers)

I would like to modify my car's shifter to operate in the more appropriate (in my mind) manner... i.e. PUSH to down-shift, and PULL to up-shift! This shouldn't be too difficult a modification to accomplish... RIGHT? Its just an electrical switch within the shifter base on either side that's activated when you either push or pull on the lever, RIGHT?? So shouldn't just reversing two wires down there accomplish exactly what I'm trying to do??? I can't think of any other actions or sensors that would be attached to the shifting action(s) that could get messed up by reversing those two commands. The only hard part is determining which wires need to be reversed. Hopefully GM in it's infinite wisdom didn't go and make those simple commands part of some CAN Bus data path..... or some other PWM micro-pulses down some fiber-optical angel-hair strand plucked from Goldilox's head before they be-headed her in the Pontiac massacre.

Does anyone here know anything about the wiring of the shifter to the TCM in our cars? Hasn't someone else already wanted to modify their shifting in this manner and had a bit more guts (or training/opportunity) than I and gone ahead and successfully made this mod?? One detail of it I'd kinda like to have would be the ability to switch it back if I ever needed to take it to the stealer for any related service calls. I did see how I could switch the li'l plus and minus icons on the shifter console so if I ever were to (horrors be!!) sell my car, the next owner wouldn't be confused!

It just seems to make so much more sense the other way and I am such a logical thinking person I s'pose. I'd also like shifting it manually if I were able to successfully modify this to where it should've been in the first place!!

Thanks for reading, and please chime in with whatever you can add. I'd rather not tear into my shifter console without some knowledge that it is indeed possible, or better yet, direct, confirmed procedures for making the mod work!


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Old 12-30-2011, 08:21 AM   #2
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Yes! Me too! I can't stand the "forward for plus, back for down" layout. It's already bad enough that we have to push the shifter AWAY from us to enter manual mode, unlike a real driving machine. I'm sure its a relic from the rhd/lhd conversion, just like the dome light button and a/c controls being on the wrong side but its the thing that bothers me the most. I can't even begin to count how many times I've selected the wrong gear when changing manually because the layout is just plain backwards.

Last edited by Knothead; 12-30-2011 at 08:23 AM. Reason: dang autocorrect
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:27 AM   #3
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This is the main thread for this topic, but doesn't help much;

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26574


Look at post # 32 in this thread, as it gets pretty close to an answer;

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19667

I think we are all just waiting on someone brave enough to tear everything apart and figure it out.......
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:56 AM   #4
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I bought a complete shifter a few years back to see how it works and I actually think i had it figured out but work and other things prevented me from completing the project.

It seems simple enough...the manual shifter contains a micro switch on the manual side....I think if you just switch the two wires on the micro switch, it will reveres the upshift/downshift pattern.

If anybody is interested I can take pictures from the shifter I bought to show just how simple it seems.
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:06 PM   #5
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Could you telll me where those swithces or wires can be accessed please? I'm interested for another reason. I want to try adding paddle shifters.
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:03 PM   #6
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Let me get the shifter and take some pics...
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:11 PM   #7
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OK, here are some pics, but first I need to explain. It's not a micro switch, it's a magnet positioned below the manual shifter control circuit board. When you push up, the magnet induces a voltage over the sensor thus causing the up-shift when pushed forward, and downshift when pushing/pulling down. Also, interesting enough, the 2 lights that illuminate the shifter are LEDs so theatrically you can swap them out with red ones if you like...or any other color.
PM me if you need more pics, these were taken in haste and may not be as clear.

Below are the pics and I'm almost certain that switching the Dark green with the blue/white chaser should reverse the shifters pattern.


















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Old 01-01-2012, 08:49 PM   #8
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Might want to do a bit more checking into that wire swap. I had a look at schematics, it does not appear to be a signal, it may be a data signal (GMLAN). Unforgettably, the colors in the images vs what the schematic call out are not the same.
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:21 PM   #9
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We won't know till somebody gives it a shot. IMO, it's simple two way communication, the signal is either on or off....and switching the 2 wires i've described should work.....If it was GMLAN it would/should only be one wire?? But again, would love somebody to give it a try....
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knothead View Post
Yes! Me too! I can't stand the "forward for plus, back for down" layout. It's already bad enough that we have to push the shifter AWAY from us to enter manual mode, unlike a real driving machine. I'm sure its a relic from the rhd/lhd conversion, just like the dome light button and a/c controls being on the wrong side but its the thing that bothers me the most. I can't even begin to count how many times I've selected the wrong gear when changing manually because the layout is just plain backwards.


the pushing away from the driver is not do to the conversion from rhd/lhd, you push away from the driver in the Holden as well.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:33 PM   #11
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I suspect you need a reference for the data line. If it is data, then someone would need to twist Chris White's arm to offer as a option in the BCM reprograming he offers.






Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIm View Post
We won't know till somebody gives it a shot. IMO, it's simple two way communication, the signal is either on or off....and switching the 2 wires i've described should work.....If it was GMLAN it would/should only be one wire?? But again, would love somebody to give it a try....
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:32 AM   #12
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Thanks for the pics and info ZIm and for the schematic JCMG8. If its a data bus then probably the easiest way woud be to trick the magnet circuit into generating the data word.
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:18 PM   #13
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It has been like that (right to sport and fwd to upshift) since the old Husrt His 'n Hers shifters. My 69 goat operates like that as well with Pontiac's own shifter. There are reverse action shifters used in a lot of drag cars, but those are straight mechanical.
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:48 PM   #14
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I didn't like it either at first, but really, it takes about 10 minutes to get used to. Not a big deal IMO.
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:08 PM   #15
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:24 PM   #16
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based on the image, + and - are reversed down under.
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Old 01-03-2012, 02:26 AM   #17
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Crazy paul,

I see part #20 on the US diagram, which I assume is the magnetic switch, but I do not see it on the Aus diagram.

Wouldn't just changing our switch with the Australian version work it if it a canbus data stream?
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:36 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCMG8 View Post
based on the image, + and - are reversed down under.
Yep, ours are the "right" way around, the powers that were at Pontiac must have asked Holden to swap it around for you guys...
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:12 AM   #19
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would prefer a reverse manual pattern also.

gonna be a pain since the GTO is gonna be a reverse manual valve body and the g8 will be a forward one
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCMG8 View Post
Might want to do a bit more checking into that wire swap. I had a look at schematics, it does not appear to be a signal, it may be a data signal (GMLAN). Unforgettably, the colors in the images vs what the schematic call out are not the same.
Based on the this wiring diagram and the blurry pictures from ZIm, I would guess that there are four simple magnetic reed switches on that circuit board. The switches when all open have four resistors in series and that resistance is measured by the BCM.

When you pull the shifter into Auto the top switch closes but the resistance is the same (no bypass circuit completed yet), you then push over to the select/sport side and the second switch closes and you bridge one of four resistors and the BCM reads this change in resistance and goes to sport/select mode. You hit [-] and with the [-] switch and auto both switched closed you bridge over two resistors, hit [+] and you bridge three resistors.

If this is the case - reversing the wires will make no difference to the circuit.
Perhaps ZIm can break out an Ohm meter and measure the change in resistance between the four positions. That would show that my theory of operation is correct. The order of most to least resistance would be D, S, [-], [+].

Looks like from Crazy Pauls pictures sourcing a Holden shifter parts 1 and 9 should work (also the one-use part in the linkage Maybe 6?). This would reverse the [+] and [-] and also change the side sport/select mode. I would like it to be in the Holden pattern on a left side drive car. But I have no data as to fittment, the cost of the shifter or shipping.
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