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Old 10-19-2012, 07:05 PM   #1
ExpLiciTSainT
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Default Engine blown L76

I've been debating on making this thread, mostly because I wanted to tear down the engine first to figure out what really happened. I received my car back from the tuner couple of Fridays ago with it runny sketchy. Not long after driving it, I got a check engine light saying it was running lean in both banks with LTFT in the 20s. I called the tuner and he told me he forgot to turn off some codes and that's probably what it was. After clearing the codes, the car did run better (like when I picked it up) but still wasn't what I expected. He told me it was a really conservative tune and I could put my foot into it without worrying but later (after the fact of the car failing) he told me he didn't know I was road racing it. Which I def clearly stated what I was doing and why I wanted my tranny a specific way and why I chose the Procharger over the maggie. He also wasn't up front with the fact he has never tuned large injectors on the e38 PCM.

At the track, I experience inconsistent power and I should have just taken it off, but lesson learned. Here's the only session I ran, with the car losing power (and sputtering). At the end, I wanted to run around one last time to see if it was due to the codes (which cleared from turning the car off and on).


After the run, I found my dipstick blown out of the engine and had to put it back in. The oil pressure gauge remained solid at 3. I met someone at the track which had HP Tuners and he pulled the tune for me and took at look at how it was running. He mentioned it didn't seem right, especially with the LTFT being at 20+. I was getting all sorts of codes, MAP, lean codes, and later, the dreaded misfire.

My brother pulled the plugs and found 4 and 6 to be almost completely gone (exploded). Compression check shows 170 in 4, and 0 in 6. Another piston with a good spark plug showed 180. It looks like I have coolant in my oil and oil in my coolant.

I asked BlueGoat06 to look at the tune and he made a post on HP Tuners here. (Which the tuner found less than 12 hours after being posted). Now, I'm not blaming the tuner, anything could have happened at this point, just giving the story.

The reason I chose going to a shop is to identify possible problems my mechanically ignorant mind might have missed. Later he told me the platinum spark plugs shouldn't be used (which he said he checked the spark marks earlier to make sure it wasn't running lean - but didn't think about it being platinum then). He also said he felt the head lifted with the amount of boost I was running (9PSI) and caused coolant to shoot into the piston making the spark plug explode.

Moving forward, I will be tearing the heads off the car this weekend and sending them into a machinist I trust. I've already contacted Patrick G to have him tune and pick out the cam for my next setup. It might just be a head gasket... in which case, I will be replacing the vavles, springs, etc... and possibly the cam. If the piston ring let go, I'll be boring the motor out and switching to forged internals.

In any rate, drove my car for less than 200 miles, less than 24 hours, and have owned the Procharger (installed even) since August. At least race season is over and winter is here... lol
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:36 PM   #2
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Video didn't work, but i am on my phone. I am sorry to hear this about your car man. It sucks, butt not you can justify a few more goodies lol. " welll im already in here, do i might as well"

I would not work with said tuner again. Anything could have happened but i feel if your car was about to blow he should have easily saw this prior to the tune so i am leaning towards the tune my friend. Glad you are going with pat g. I will be doing the same!
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:41 PM   #3
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Heh, exactly. I'm keeping a good frame of mind about it. If it were ever to happen to me in my lifespan, right now is a great time. My contract is being extended, bills paid off, fiancé has a great job, and I've wanted a cam for some time (and believe the lifters are crap anyways).

I've spent the last two weeks reading and reading, and I strongly feel Pat G should be the guy holding my hand through this.

Video is on youtube, not sure why it's not playing.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:45 PM   #4
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Even if you're running crazy amounts of boost, your car shouldn't run that rough unless your injectors or fuel pump couldn't keep up. I suppose that IS a possibility, and it would pretty much make it so the only way you could run is lean. But if you know that's not the case... then yeah, I'd blame your tune. Sorry, man. Patrick G will get you set up properly, though.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:50 PM   #5
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I was running the ZL1 pump, F-Body regulator, 80# injectors with 9PSI of boost. I figure it could keep up, even with e85 fuel. Buford's car does. I guess it's possible I had some other issue, I don't have a fuel pressure gauge so I don't know. Either case, that's why I wanted a shop to tune. Lesson learned.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:09 PM   #6
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Sounds like a workable setup. But yeah, Patrick G or Rick Crawford (G8-4-Speed on the board), either one will get you set up. Rick Crawford is local to NC, which made the choice easy for me. His tune has been great for me in my NA mostly-stock car, and also in Doug Hilliard's flippin' insane 650+ HP Maggied GT.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:13 PM   #7
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Yea bro, I'd blame the tuner. Patrick G has done this multiple times I'm sure, & never heard this type of horror story from one of his customers. I'd probably raise hell with the tuner to front atleast some of the bill for all the new shiet you have to buy now. Just a thought, as it's pretty obvious dude screwed up (i.e. not knowing you were going to race, wtf else are you going to do with a procharger lol).
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:15 PM   #8
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Explicit Saint, if you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living? Always curious to find out what young successful people are out doing in the world
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:22 PM   #9
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Actually, the reason I'm not yelling is because of my experience in my professional life. I started off as a small business owner who was hired by Microsoft to help them release Windows Home Server to the world. Since then, I've stayed with MS as a vendor and have consistently increased my contracts. I've been poor my entire life and the last 6 years have been the first time I have been well off. One thing I learned a long time ago from being a Program Manager, is to analyze the out come of a project before yelling. I'm currently working in the Xbox LIVE division handling TFS for the information management and communication (along with builds/code). Most of the work I do is under NDA, so I try never to say or point anything out until it's in the news.

I asked the shop to cover the R&R of the engine and he said he'd give me a 20% discount. I was pretty insulted at that point and pissed off. The only reason I am not so mad is because I've always wanted to do what I am about to do. That includes the R&R. I'm not going to lie, I thought about hiring a lawyer... and I know a lot of them (use to do IT work specializing in law firms).
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:43 PM   #10
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Life sucks, people such, and no one us going to fix it. You just need to roll with three punches as you are. i have been screwed over on cars, a guy bore my motor on a car when getting a oil change because he felt he needed tobtake it for a ride. People steal from me, and i realized only one who can make things better is me. Just roll with the punches and be thankful for what you have. Your attitude is pretty solid man and it i am exited for the build thread. shoes your true character. I hope everything works out man!
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Life sucks, people such, and no one us going to fix it. You just need to roll with three punches as you are. i have been screwed over on cars, a guy bore my motor on a car when getting a oil change because he felt he needed tobtake it for a ride. People steal from me, and i realized only one who can make things better is me. Just roll with the punches and be thankful for what you have. Your attitude is pretty solid man and it i am exited for the build thread. shoes your true character. I hope everything works out man!
Thanks dude, I completely understand that feeling and you're right... in the end it's the best way to go.

When it's all done, I'll have less money, but I'll have a way bigger smile! Of course, it might be quickly followed by a transmission upgrade for that power. lol
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:58 PM   #12
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Ouch, sucks to hear you had a problem like that! After going through all the similar headaches with my engine... I know what you're feeling like right know. Just keep an open mind and stay calm. I think you have the right attitude about the whole thing.

-Todd...
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpLiciTSainT View Post
Actually, the reason I'm not yelling is because of my experience in my professional life. I started off as a small business owner who was hired by Microsoft to help them release Windows Home Server to the world. Since then, I've stayed with MS as a vendor and have consistently increased my contracts. I've been poor my entire life and the last 6 years have been the first time I have been well off. One thing I learned a long time ago from being a Program Manager, is to analyze the out come of a project before yelling. I'm currently working in the Xbox LIVE division handling TFS for the information management and communication (along with builds/code). Most of the work I do is under NDA, so I try never to say or point anything out until it's in the news.

I asked the shop to cover the R&R of the engine and he said he'd give me a 20% discount. I was pretty insulted at that point and pissed off. The only reason I am not so mad is because I've always wanted to do what I am about to do. That includes the R&R. I'm not going to lie, I thought about hiring a lawyer... and I know a lot of them (use to do IT work specializing in law firms).
That's awesome bro. I contemplate getting my certs for IT as it definitely seems to be a promising field lately & I'm sure will just continue to grow with the technology. I hear you, yelling & losing your temper is never the way to go. My interpretation of raising hell is more along the lines of getting your point across & not leaving til you're satisfied as a customer (within reason of course). Yelling just pisses everybody off & results in nothing being done lol
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:06 PM   #14
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That's awesome bro. I contemplate getting my certs for IT as it definitely seems to be a promising field lately & I'm sure will just continue to grow with the technology. I hear you, yelling & losing your temper is never the way to go. My interpretation of raising hell is more along the lines of getting your point across & not leaving til you're satisfied as a customer (within reason of course). Yelling just pisses everybody off & results in nothing being done lol
One of the things I did was 3 way call him with my brother on the line since he can speak technically to the issues (he's ASE certified). I did go to an extend of debating with him, but in the end, it's what your resolution will be. If he really did cause the problems, I don't want him R&R'ing my engine. If he didn't, than he shouldn't have to R&R the engine... so I chose to do it on my own. Though, making sure the problem doesn't arise again is my top concern. I feel Patrick G should be good to help with that.

As for your IT certs, I'm happy to give advice if you would like to ping me offline. I got my MCSE back in 2000, so I have 12 years of real world technical experience.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:50 PM   #15
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Ouch, sucks to hear you had a problem like that! After going through all the similar headaches with my engine... I know what you're feeling like right know. Just keep an open mind and stay calm. I think you have the right attitude about the whole thing.

-Todd...
Thanks Todd, I watched your project pretty closely so I know you understand. Hopefully I'm only down for a month or so.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:55 PM   #16
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I"m an MCSE also.

Sorry for your loss on the motor but now you can set it up properly. Good times ahead!
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:21 AM   #17
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Theres a boost tuner in your state that by what I see does good work, English Racing. They are in Camas.
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:21 PM   #18
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Hiring a lawyer won't do anything. The shop likely has no real liability for the car here (and if they do, it'd be hard to prove that they did anything insanely wrong).

The only thing that would work is to threaten them with dragging their name all over the internet. Putting up a BBB claim. Stuff like that. The court of public opinion goes a lot further in situations like this.

At the minimum, I would really recommend naming the tuner and putting that out there.
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:17 PM   #19
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The tune wasn't right folks, to put it in simple terms, it was a POS BS tune, and probably ran to lean, Explict, if you were to tune the car yourself with HPT, the thread suggest a little trick for the injectors that can make the tuning a breeze, i didn't know about that trick, but seems to work very well on the E38's, assuming you haven't pegged the MAF. I wish i had the dove to pick a Procharger or TVS for my car

Have fun.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:07 PM   #20
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Sorry to hear about your issues.... Same exact thing happened to me.... 9 lbs shouldnt be an issue but it is getting close to the warning zone that some have issues, others dont..... luck of the dice...

hard to know who to trust..... they all say they can tune it..... hell I had a guy tune one of my engines for 6 months and couldnt even start after if got warm... flooded the crap out the plugs...... and he could never fix.... but he still wouldnt give me any money back..... not one cent..... wouldnt even call me back..... .... CRT performance out of Ohio.... nice intelligent guy... but cant tune procharged GM cars worth crap.... gave the car to someone else and tune was immediately fixed and no issues after that... literally took him 30 minutes to fix... oh well....

good luck getting yours fixed.... but if you are looking at staying at 9psi or more... personally I would get a 6 bolt main and/or new heads with a thicker deck on it.... personally.... and use ARP studs... but sounds like your tune killed you....
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