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Old 10-29-2012, 08:42 PM   #1
Eidolon
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Default The Pedders SuperCar Saga

... begins! I've drooled over these intermittently since they were announced, and now I have a set sitting in my living room. They arrived safe and unharmed.



It kind of seems a shame to put something this pretty where it won't be seen.





Also, the name suddenly makes a lot more sense. I didn't know it was a race series licensed product. No wonder Pedders is proud of this product!



Installation and tuning will be handled by Petty's Garage in Randleman, NC, named for and owned by The King, Richard Petty himself. I'll be posting up pictures of the installation, as well as a review of my experience with the installation process and friendliness at Petty's. So far I've been more than pleased with my interactions on the phone, and they're even going to lengths to work me in the week after they return from SEMA so I can get these babies on track for the Holiday Laps at VIR! They're going to give me a call early next week to let me know which weekday they can fit me in.

I'll then be posting my opinion of the V8 SuperCars in terms of ride and handling, both on the highway and on the track for the Holiday Laps. Later, once I've gotten an HPDE in on them, I'll post yet more information.

I'm looking forward to the process. Stay tuned to this thread for more!
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:42 PM   #2
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Links to the Process

Initial Impressions
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2009 Liquid Red O/R M6 G8 GXP "The Yak"

#1468 : 1 of 67 as optioned

Stop, Go, Turn, and Show. I've changed them all on my car, and it's been a labor of love in my garage for almost all of them.

GO WOLFPACK!

Daily Driver: Focus ST

Last edited by Eidolon; 11-21-2012 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:57 PM   #3
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Waiting for your review......(whilst turning green with envy )
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Old 10-29-2012, 10:03 PM   #4
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Enjoy, and welcome to the family !


Sent from my Autoguide iPod touch app
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:02 AM   #5
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You'll love them. Find out what the "factory recommended settings" are for compression/rebound. I've always been curious what Pedders recommends (since I've never had the chance to play with mine in a scientific manner).

-Todd...
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:14 AM   #6
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Congrats! I bet you are nurturing them like a newborn baby! Just out of curiosity...how much does one supercar coilover weigh..along with the external can?
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCorzett View Post
You'll love them. Find out what the "factory recommended settings" are for compression/rebound. I've always been curious what Pedders recommends (since I've never had the chance to play with mine in a scientific manner).

-Todd...
I plan to, since I won't have a lot of time to toy with them before I'm on track, so I'll be in the same boat as yourself. I hope to have time to tinker with them at some point in a setting more aggressive than street.

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Congrats! I bet you are nurturing them like a newborn baby! Just out of curiosity...how much does one supercar coilover weigh..along with the external can?
So for a quick and dirty answer, I stepped on my bathroom scale, then grabbed a coilover and stepped on the scale again. The scale only measures to the half-pound, and they're in the boxes obviously. But the answer is 15 lbs each for the front, 13 lbs each for the rear. I don't know how that compares to the stock parts.
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2009 Liquid Red O/R M6 G8 GXP "The Yak"

#1468 : 1 of 67 as optioned

Stop, Go, Turn, and Show. I've changed them all on my car, and it's been a labor of love in my garage for almost all of them.

GO WOLFPACK!

Daily Driver: Focus ST
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:31 AM   #8
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Those look nice!
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCorzett View Post
You'll love them. Find out what the "factory recommended settings" are for compression/rebound. I've always been curious what Pedders recommends (since I've never had the chance to play with mine in a scientific manner).

-Todd...
Pedders never gave me a specific recommendation for setup. They did recommend 3 clicks more (for rebound and compression both) on the rears vs. the fronts and discouraged me from using the lowest setting (no clicks).

For DD status, I'm at 4 clicks front and 7 rear. I used to run a lower setting in the rear, but I'm so low that I would rub on the bumper bracket screw.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:55 PM   #10
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Very nice thread, Eidolon. Your car was amazing at g8gone, I could only imagine the level that you're about to take it to, and subscribed to keep abreast of the progress as it happens.

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Old 10-30-2012, 03:11 PM   #11
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Like posted on other thread, damn can't wait to see these and looking forward to your reviews.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TireDoc View Post
Pedders never gave me a specific recommendation for setup. They did recommend 3 clicks more (for rebound and compression both) on the rears vs. the fronts and discouraged me from using the lowest setting (no clicks).

For DD status, I'm at 4 clicks front and 7 rear. I used to run a lower setting in the rear, but I'm so low that I would rub on the bumper bracket screw.
You'll want to bias the compression toward the rear generally. It's much like biasing roll resistance with sway bars. If you bias it toward the front or even it out, the car will tend to push in the corners. The general rule, as my car nut coworker tells me, is that the tire that bears the most weight in the turns is the one that will give up traction first. So you adjust the compression rates with that in mind. In this case, you set it to give that front outside tire a break!
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2009 Liquid Red O/R M6 G8 GXP "The Yak"

#1468 : 1 of 67 as optioned

Stop, Go, Turn, and Show. I've changed them all on my car, and it's been a labor of love in my garage for almost all of them.

GO WOLFPACK!

Daily Driver: Focus ST
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:18 PM   #13
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The general rule, as my car nut coworker tells me, is that the tire that bears the most weight in the turns is the one that will give up traction first.
That doesn't seem right to me... I think it's the opposite. The wheel with the least weight will break traction first (although the consequence isn't going to be as great as if the one with the most weight broke traction).

I was taught that as more weight is added to a corner that tire's contact patch grows... increasing grip. This is why you trail brake... keeping the weight on the front increases the traction and your ability to turn. But too much weight to the front mid-corner and the rear will not have weight (so a smaller contact patch) and will break traction (oversteer).

That's why in an understeer situation you get off the gas or apply the brakes (transfering weight = grip) to the front... and why applying the brakes in an oversteer situation is a bad idea (less weight on rear = even less grip).

How this would apply to car setup and dampening settings is beyond me.

-Todd...
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:26 PM   #14
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Yeah, I believe Todd's correct on that. Weight = Traction.

That's why they have you stiffen the rear and loosen the front to correct under steer (reduce under steer that is).
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TireDoc View Post
Pedders never gave me a specific recommendation for setup. They did recommend 3 clicks more (for rebound and compression both) on the rears vs. the fronts and discouraged me from using the lowest setting (no clicks).

For DD status, I'm at 4 clicks front and 7 rear. I used to run a lower setting in the rear, but I'm so low that I would rub on the bumper bracket screw.
I tried running 20 clicks on the rear and 18 on the front for my XAs (not supercars). It created a weird bouncing affect as the dampening changed enough to let the front and rear bounce differently. I ended up setting them to be the same to avoid this. It might be OK for the track, but it was awful for daily driving.

I'm purchasing Pedder sway bars and I'm going to use them to help reduce under steer, with tighter in the rear and looser in the front. Rob (Wretched) mentioned running full stiff rear and full soft front.
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:41 PM   #16
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I'm debating on getting these as well, hope you get them installed soon.. sub'd
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCorzett View Post
That doesn't seem right to me... I think it's the opposite. The wheel with the least weight will break traction first (although the consequence isn't going to be as great as if the one with the most weight broke traction).

I was taught that as more weight is added to a corner that tire's contact patch grows... increasing grip. This is why you trail brake... keeping the weight on the front increases the traction and your ability to turn. But too much weight to the front mid-corner and the rear will not have weight (so a smaller contact patch) and will break traction (oversteer).

That's why in an understeer situation you get off the gas or apply the brakes (transfering weight = grip) to the front... and why applying the brakes in an oversteer situation is a bad idea (less weight on rear = even less grip).

How this would apply to car setup and dampening settings is beyond me.

-Todd...
Our two points aren't in conflict, actually. It's all on a continuum. The wheel with the most weight will break traction if you're relying on that wheel. The wheel with the least weight will break traction if you're relying on that wheel. You're balancing weight on multiple points, and setting up the suspension to ensure no one tire is overloaded or underloaded while you're on track.

Case in point, you trail brake to load the front wheels to get the grip needed to turn. But if you toy with your sway bars and go 'round a track, you'll find that setting the roll resistance stronger up front and weaker in the back will result in understeer. The reason is that while leaving the front outside tire unloaded will limit the traction you can gain from the tire, similarly asking it to both turn the car and handle the weight of the car as it rolls onto that corner will overload the tire and the overall grip of the car is reduced.

To help compensate, you set the roll resistance in the rear to firmer so that you're asking the front outside tire to turn and rear outside tire to handle more of the weight of the car. That way you're splitting the load, and the result is more overall grip.

I did this very thing between weekends one and two at VIR, and the corner grip available to me was noticeably better with the sway bar resistance biased toward the rear. With it biased further forward as it was my first weekend out, my front tires were howling through the corners!

Biasing the compression damping of the coilovers is essentially another way to stiffen the roll resistance of the vehicle overall, though it does also affect weight transfer.

Mind, there is obviously a point of diminishing returns. Setting the roll resistance fully forward won't give you infinite grip from the front tire, just as setting it fully rearward won't allow you to turn 90 degrees at 100 MPH because the rear tire says "OK!".

In short, the idea of transferring weight to gain grip is based on braking versus throttle, and is dynamic. Tuning the suspension to change which corners take the weight and how it's distributed is more static, and is what I'm dealing with in this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpLiciTSainT View Post
Yeah, I believe Todd's correct on that. Weight = Traction.

That's why they have you stiffen the rear and loosen the front to correct under steer (reduce under steer that is).
The stiffening of the rear deals with weight transfer, but also deals with splitting the weight on those outside tires. It's about tuning the suspension to balance which of the two outside tires are bearing the weight of the car through the turn.

In summary, it takes a combination of proper driving technique - managing the weight of the car dynamically - and proper suspension tuning - managing how the car wants to transfer its weight when you hit that corner - to produce a good, fast lap.
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#1468 : 1 of 67 as optioned

Stop, Go, Turn, and Show. I've changed them all on my car, and it's been a labor of love in my garage for almost all of them.

GO WOLFPACK!

Daily Driver: Focus ST
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:47 PM   #18
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True but it also controls how the car is placing its weight.

Put 90% of your body weight on one foot and 10% on the other. Have a friend push each foot and see which one breaks loose easier.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:03 PM   #19
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True but it also controls how the car is placing its weight.

Put 90% of your body weight on one foot and 10% on the other. Have a friend push each foot and see which one breaks loose easier.
Your example's a little simple because you're not in motion. For a better example, try running and turning a corner on wet brick while in sneakers. If you put too little weight on the outside foot, well obviously you've got a funny run. Too much, though, and your outside foot will give way because you asked too much of your sneaker. Balancing the weight between the two is key, and that's my point.

Rob's recommendation to set your sway bars fully stiff to the rear actually reinforces my point. You'd agree that sway bars don't affect weight transfer front to rear. Instead, they affect weight transfer side to side. So when you bias the roll resistance rearward, you're letting your front tire handle the turning using the front-rear shift you gave it by braking, while the rear tire manages the shifting weight of the car side-to-side.

The same idea holds when selecting damping forces for your coilovers. They do affect weight transfer front to rear and back, but when you take a turn, the roll will of course compress the coilovers on the outside. So compression damping matters not just for front-rear weight transfer, but also side-to-side.

In the end, I encourage you to do some experimenting once you receive your sway bars. Get out on track and toy with the resistances.

EDIT: If you want to continue discussing this, I'd ask that we start a separate thread or break this out into a separate thread, since this one is supposed to be about my experience with the coilovers, and I haven't even gotten them on the car yet!
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2009 Liquid Red O/R M6 G8 GXP "The Yak"

#1468 : 1 of 67 as optioned

Stop, Go, Turn, and Show. I've changed them all on my car, and it's been a labor of love in my garage for almost all of them.

GO WOLFPACK!

Daily Driver: Focus ST
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:49 PM   #20
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It's fun thinking about the coefficient of friction.

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If you want to continue discussing this, I'd ask that we start a separate thread or break this out into a separate thread, since this one is supposed to be about my experience with the coilovers, and I haven't even gotten them on the car yet!
Oh look what I started... now back on topic: SuperCar Coilovers are awesome!

-Todd...
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