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Exhaust Tech Headers, Catbacks, Mufflers, lack of mufflers

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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-29-2017, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
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1 step forward 2 steps back.Sigh...

So,

Set up. Long tube, 1 3/4
HFC
X pipe( Mid muffler and rear muffler delete )
Solo J's

Today, I installed straight pipes in place of the resonators.
I lost power/torque. Do I need to let the ecm cycle a bit to
correct ? Or, am I screwed? The sound is what I was after.
At 2 K RPM it blasts. Then not until you mash pedal does it
blast loud. Idle is actually more quiet. NO DRONE AT ANY
SPEED. but, like I mentioned, loss of performance right after I
removed those resonators. Do I need to re tune because of what
I did ?

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] My 2009 - With the usual suspects. Incl. - Pat G.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 12:01 AM
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How did you measure the power / torque loss?

9.5 RPM (Red Passion Metallic) Sport /Premium
ICOM 208H
"Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted."- unknown

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 12:21 AM Thread Starter
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Just by the amount of force I have to push down on the gas pedal without absolutely anything happening... By the pedal just goes down further and further and further and I don't move faster or faster or faster as normal.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] My 2009 - With the usual suspects. Incl. - Pat G.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 01:05 AM
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You need a supercharger or tarrrrbo
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 02:05 AM Thread Starter
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Might just need to reinstall some resonators to make it run like it did before. Once again, some people have told me that the ECU must adapt and other said that's nonsense.. I guess my question is is it true or is it false, and just because I remove resonators do I need to update the tune that's in the car.?

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] My 2009 - With the usual suspects. Incl. - Pat G.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 07:36 AM
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Re-tune, THEN come back and see what the difference is.

That said, from what I understand, you removed a restriction in the exhaust system and provided more flow. So that loss has taken away from the low end and moved it to the high end. You're probably gonna have to live with it until the computer adjusts (it will), or you tune it, which may or may not make a notable difference. Taking everything else out of consideration, those resonators are essentially a smaller diameter pipe that keeps exhaust pressure higher upstream.

That's why you gotta be careful going after a sound, because like everything in life.... when you make changes to achieve one desired end, there will always be a trade-off.

'09 PSM G8 GT - OPG Intake, DOD-Delete w/ Stage 1C 218/229 .600 Lift 117.5LSA, Kooks 1 7/8 Mids, Solo Axle-Back w/ X-Pipe, SuperPro Bushings (Front and Rear). BMR Sway Bars (Red)
Power: 400HP/392TQ


"If you want to criticize someone else's work, be sure that your own is in order first."

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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Ahhh, . I am always learning these little lessons.

in 20/20 vision, I wouldnt have Micky Moused the Exhaust ,Just bit the bullet and bought a full American Racing System incl, headers. But, I thought I was being slick and saving money,,,, Ha ha the joke is on me :-) By the time I x piped it, ordered headers, cats and added tips, and removed pipe, and etc etc, I am into it more than the A/R set up. The welding labor put me over the top. Not to mention I have freaking HF cats welded to the header collectors.... Geeeez.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] My 2009 - With the usual suspects. Incl. - Pat G.

Last edited by IcudahadaG8; 09-03-2017 at 02:28 PM.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 07:51 PM
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Sorry to hear about your issues man. Best of luck getting things resolved.

PBM GT W/SPORT PACK
GO:
Pat G tune
CIA: ORSSOM
EXHAUST: BADLANDZ CUT OUTS W/ X PIPE AND RESONATOR DELETE
KOOKS 1 7/8 mids and HFC's (coated)

SHOW:
PONTIAC EMBLEMS REMOVED. HOLDEN TRUNK LOGO ADDED.
TINT
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017, 08:39 PM
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I'm still surprised that it is that noticeable. Are you sure it's not just your mind expecting the louder exhaust to give more "OOMPH" to the car? Maybe we could call it the Ear Dyno.

How many mods have you done since the last tune, though?

'09 PSM G8 GT - OPG Intake, DOD-Delete w/ Stage 1C 218/229 .600 Lift 117.5LSA, Kooks 1 7/8 Mids, Solo Axle-Back w/ X-Pipe, SuperPro Bushings (Front and Rear). BMR Sway Bars (Red)
Power: 400HP/392TQ


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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-03-2017, 09:47 AM
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I doubt you would lose any performance at all, and I doubt the PCM would have to adapt much, if at all. From what I understand, the scavenging effect caused by the sound waves traveling in the header tubes - that effect is stopped at the first "discontinuity" - like the first drastic expansion in the pipe - in most cases the catalytic converters. Anything you do after that should not really affect cylinder filling (within reason of course). Just removing resonators would not do it.

I have always felt that a louder car doesn't feel as fast to me. I think viscerally I'm equating loudness with performance, and I'm expecting a lot more speed from the increase in noise. But that's just me. The only way to tell is before and after dyno sessions. Or perhaps track sessions if you do the DA correction between days....

2009 SRM G8 GT, GMPP CNC heads milled .035", RCR backcut intake valves, RCR Lunati 219/223 .612/.615 112+1, PSI 1511ML springs, Ti retainers, BTR 7.375 pushrods, Straub trunion bushings, RCR Airram intake, IWIS chain, Melling hi-vol hi-pressure oil pump, oil bypass blockoff, LS7 MAF in Spectre 4", Blox velocity stack, Rotofab, Kooks 1-3/4" LT's, Kooks catted X, Hooker Maxflow axlebacks. 426/383.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-03-2017, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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To the responders who think that it might be because of an increase in loudness that makes me think I'm losing power; I might have to agree with that theory cuz I have subscribed to it in the past. It could be that effect. Or could be a coincidence that my car is running like crap and I just happened to remove the resonators. Because I've had a long running problem with the car running good for a couple weeks and then running bad for a couple weeks. It just could be in the crappy mode. Time will tell if it perks up again...

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] My 2009 - With the usual suspects. Incl. - Pat G.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-07-2017, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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So, ... Talk about a coincidence, it looks like the car isnt running bad because of the resonators deleted. It just so happened that the car was running good before removal, then it went into its crappy mode after removal.( been dealing with this for almost two years now ) Now, back to running great ..... Very good! Its been good for 7 days straight now.

You know, I am thinking that I might have an issue with the tunes transferring into the ecm. EFI Live has updates, and I have noticed weird things when loading. If you have key in first click position, it loads different than if you have key in second click position. I have 5 different tunes that I rotate when I feel like it. One for better off the line but not as good top end, one dod active, one deleted, etc, ..

Im crossing fingers that the wire I posted about from the coil pack ground, has solved the issue I have been chasing for so long. It broke off from ground location.( between head and firewall ) Maybe it was fragile all along and messing performance intermittently.

I also can say with certainty that when the car is running well, the exhaust isnt as loud. When its crappy, the exhaust sound is louder. Its now currently subdued, as it can be with my set up.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] My 2009 - With the usual suspects. Incl. - Pat G.

Last edited by IcudahadaG8; 09-07-2017 at 10:37 PM.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-08-2017, 08:38 AM
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Mostly I was joking with the Ear Dyno remark... hehe Hope it sticks.

Glad you've got everything settled for now, and hopefully for a while.

'09 PSM G8 GT - OPG Intake, DOD-Delete w/ Stage 1C 218/229 .600 Lift 117.5LSA, Kooks 1 7/8 Mids, Solo Axle-Back w/ X-Pipe, SuperPro Bushings (Front and Rear). BMR Sway Bars (Red)
Power: 400HP/392TQ


"If you want to criticize someone else's work, be sure that your own is in order first."

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-08-2017, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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What??? You were joking? Thanks alot! I have been spending two days looking through the internet for an Ear Dyno shop in my area.
But, I really do believe there's a correlation between a louder exhaust in the feeling that your car should now go faster... Haha, imagine how the Tesla drivers feel sometimes! They have the speed but they probably feel like they're going slow..

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] My 2009 - With the usual suspects. Incl. - Pat G.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-08-2017, 01:23 PM
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Well I was just doing the CYA in case you were offended LOL... not really... But anywhoo... I agree with the correlative effect. I was actually a little disappointed when the Solo's quieted down after a few weeks of driving.

'09 PSM G8 GT - OPG Intake, DOD-Delete w/ Stage 1C 218/229 .600 Lift 117.5LSA, Kooks 1 7/8 Mids, Solo Axle-Back w/ X-Pipe, SuperPro Bushings (Front and Rear). BMR Sway Bars (Red)
Power: 400HP/392TQ


"If you want to criticize someone else's work, be sure that your own is in order first."

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