A thought on more power - Pontiac G8 Forum: G8 Forums - G8Board.com
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-28-2011, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
I yam what I yam
 
Chief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 619
A thought on more power

Since I've been having engine problems, I got to thinking.

Will the Camaro V6 work in our car? It's supposed to be the same motor with the difference being the DI and the engine controller. But would it be a direct replacement plug and play into our cars?

Reason I'm asking is if I keep having problems with my motor that they can't fix, then I may try talking them into a new motor, so why not go for broke and ask for the camaro V6?

My Rides:

'12 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 R Spec Titanium Gray 5.0L 429 HP. Lovin it.

'08 Magnetic Gray Metallic Sedan. V6, Sunroof, Comfort and Sound package. Debadged, GT Rear Tail Lights, Tinted windows, 35% rear, 50% front. Royal Purple oil and K&N oil filter. (GONE Lemon Law)

'06 Harley Roadglide.
95" kit w/ custom heads and 50 mm TB. 101 HP/ 104 TQ.Lot's of custom body work as well. And it's Built by ME.
Chief is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-28-2011, 02:21 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 344
The dealer will NEVER replace your engine with anything other than what the car came with. (even if it would fit).

And if you were going to go for an engine swap anyway, why not put in the V8?
edfiero is offline  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-28-2011, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
I yam what I yam
 
Chief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 619
[QUOTE=
And if you were going to go for an engine swap anyway, why not put in the V8?[/QUOTE]

car came with a V6 so I'd like to keep it a V6. Plus to change to a V8 would also require a tranny swap.

As for the camaro V6, it would open more options becaus eof the ECM they used and the fact that it is in a camaro, there are more aftermarket products available for that engine than ours. seems the speed market dosen't care about our V6, only the Camaro V6, even though the base engine is the same, just dieefernt ECM, heads and intake/induction system.

So a little off topic here ed, did you have or do you have a Fiero? I bought an '85 GT brand new back in the day. Wish I still had it. Fun car to play with.

My Rides:

'12 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 R Spec Titanium Gray 5.0L 429 HP. Lovin it.

'08 Magnetic Gray Metallic Sedan. V6, Sunroof, Comfort and Sound package. Debadged, GT Rear Tail Lights, Tinted windows, 35% rear, 50% front. Royal Purple oil and K&N oil filter. (GONE Lemon Law)

'06 Harley Roadglide.
95" kit w/ custom heads and 50 mm TB. 101 HP/ 104 TQ.Lot's of custom body work as well. And it's Built by ME.
Chief is offline  
 
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-28-2011, 06:33 PM
DINSTAAR
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: RAF Lakenheath, UK
Posts: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief View Post
Since I've been having engine problems, I got to thinking.

Will the Camaro V6 work in our car? It's supposed to be the same motor with the difference being the DI and the engine controller. But would it be a direct replacement plug and play into our cars?

Reason I'm asking is if I keep having problems with my motor that they can't fix, then I may try talking them into a new motor, so why not go for broke and ask for the camaro V6?
The dealer won't do it but it something that you would have to tackle on your own. With minor amount of modifications I'm pretty sure it would work. You may need the complete engine harness with ECM and hope it a direct fit to the rest of the car. DI engines also have a high pressure fuel system. The DI engine is offered in the Holden Commodores, so if you got schematics from those and our G8 it can be done. Who knows it maybe a direct swap, with minor issues.

Wifes: 09 G8 Liquid Red w/mods
Mine: 04 GTO Quicksilver M12 w/mods
05 CTS-V
gm4life is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-28-2011, 11:35 PM
Senior Member
 
SLO 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,844
Might as well throw a turbo on yours, probably way less costly than a new engine. Any v6s even out there turbod?

2009 SRM G8 GT, Premium & Sport Package..
Performance: Some, but not enough..
Appearance: Too much to list..

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
SLO 60 is offline  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-29-2011, 09:24 AM
Senior Member
 
zepcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 10,244
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLO 60 View Post
Might as well throw a turbo on yours, probably way less costly than a new engine. Any v6s even out there turbod?
The only way to accomplish this, with the difficult-at-best BOSCHE ECM on the G8 V6 is what some Aussie's have done over the pond. They supecharge by "piggybacking" their add-on ECM inline with the stock ECM to modify the characteristics and commands that the ECM fires off to the engine and engine management controls "inline" to boost performance and promote a turbo setup.

This is NO EASY TASK. Plus, there are tons of wires in ECM's, and this would most certainly void any warrantees on powertrain if such a piggyback ECM (or turbo for that matter) was found.

To that end, since both the camaro and the g8 are ZETA platform cars, it's possible that the two v6 engines are able to physically be swapped. With that, you'd want to include the camaro's v6 ECM and be privy to the camaro's transmission (or keep your 5-speed manualomatic from the g8?) .... it surely would be a big task, but not impossible for those who are familiar with engine swaps. Even an aftermarket harness could be used to convert the factory car-side wiring to ANY modern non-standard engine. How else do they fit LS1's into 1930's rat rods or 57 chevys? It's not impossible!!

If you're contemplating an engine swap anyways.... why not make your V6 g8 an LS3? As in, "go all the way". That way, you can upgrade to the 6L80e 6-speed auto found in the A6 GT or GXP, you can run the stock E38 ECM for the LS3 V8, you'd get a lot more power from such a stout engine, you'd have infinite upgrade and power-adder future options, and your "lolely v6" would be big on power when all was said and done.

In the 1980's, people took old 2.8L V6 camaro bodies, pulled the engine and trannys, and put in 350's for a "cheap performer" ....

This is similar to that, except the Suspension is superior: 1980's 3rd gen camaros that started life as a V6 would "sag" in the front end due to the increased weight of the 350 and the weakened springs on the stock v6 car. THE G8 Comes with the FE2 suspension on BOTH the v6 and v8 GT models. Yes, the G8 GXP comes with the FE3 stiffer higher performance suspension, or you could even consider aftermarket (Pedders, BMR, etc) ... but my point is, the stock suspension on a v6 g8 would be FINE to start off with.


The only remaining difference that I would see would be speedo/odometer accuracy on mileage (branded title or "mileage innaccurate" with new engine, not good) ... and the stock v6 "peg leg" rear end, where the v8 g8's have limited slip rear diffs, standard. Or switch gearing to a more stout camaro 3.45 rear end and solve both problems at once.


Nothing is impossible... but with any of the above, you'd need to scope out and check references to major engine retrofit and build shops, and get estimates, and get your sights set on what you really want. Do you want a bump of 35 horsepower and a lot of expense in a full on engine and ECM swap? Or do you want a bump of 100+ horsepower, nearly unlimited mods potential with a v8 engine option, and similar "to install, to swap" costs as the camaro v6 would have been, without the negatives that generations-past cars had to endure (soft front shocks in teh 3rd gen v6 camaro 350 swaps of yesteryear).


Sorry for the novel, just food for thought!


2009.1 ZEPCOM MGM G8 GT
Kooks LT's, SOLO HFC & Mach Unbalanced with J-pipes, SLP Tips.
Livernois tune, VCM, FE3's, full Holden blue gauges conversion, iphone on display. Daily Driver FTW
The ZEPCOM G8 was SOLO's test mule
www.youtube.com/zepcom

Bought 3/30/2009, retired 7/18/2017 at 136k miles, still strong. Been a great ride, she will be missed!
zepcom is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-29-2011, 06:26 PM
DINSTAAR
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: RAF Lakenheath, UK
Posts: 494
The advantage of having the dealer do the LLT engine swap is that you will still maintain the remaining warranty. I don't trust dealers to do a darn thing for me. To accomplish a LLT engine swap is to mirror the Commodore LLT combo.

The only cost effective way of doing a V6 to V8 engine swap is to buy a complete wrecked G8 GT/GXP. Add up all the parts new/used from engine, harnesses, to drivetrain, headaches and you are better off finding a used GT/GXP unless you like the challenge.

Wifes: 09 G8 Liquid Red w/mods
Mine: 04 GTO Quicksilver M12 w/mods
05 CTS-V
gm4life is offline  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-29-2011, 08:08 PM
Senior Member
 
zepcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 10,244
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by gm4life View Post
The advantage of having the dealer do the LLT engine swap is that you will still maintain the remaining warranty.
I'd like to see the first person who sucessfully pulls this off and retains their warrantee. NOT GONNA HAPPEN in a million years.

The LLT was never spec'd for the US spec G8. What are they gonna do, fly over some engineers from Austrailia who can install and tune and do all that?




It's not even in the service manuals that the dealerships use.

Best to look aftermarket. If you swap your engine with anything except what the car was built with, don't even think of any gm powertrain to fall back on.

I say go LS3 or LSX. What's your budget for the build? Considering a new engine costs 10k or so, and a used ebay take-out engine is in the neighborhood of 4-6k, are you looking to spend 5k or 15k or somewhere in between?


2009.1 ZEPCOM MGM G8 GT
Kooks LT's, SOLO HFC & Mach Unbalanced with J-pipes, SLP Tips.
Livernois tune, VCM, FE3's, full Holden blue gauges conversion, iphone on display. Daily Driver FTW
The ZEPCOM G8 was SOLO's test mule
www.youtube.com/zepcom

Bought 3/30/2009, retired 7/18/2017 at 136k miles, still strong. Been a great ride, she will be missed!
zepcom is offline  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-29-2011, 10:09 PM
DINSTAAR
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: RAF Lakenheath, UK
Posts: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by zepcom View Post
I'd like to see the first person who sucessfully pulls this off and retains their warrantee. NOT GONNA HAPPEN in a million years.

The LLT was never spec'd for the US spec G8. What are they gonna do, fly over some engineers from Austrailia who can install and tune and do all that?




It's not even in the service manuals that the dealerships use.
No chit, read post #2 and #4 we covered that base already. I'm piggybacking on the idea the OP was tossing around of having the dealership do it to keep the warranty. I don't know why else you(he) would be asking the dealer for a Camaro V6. The dealership will install stuff on your car and you can still retain the warranty(arm and a leg), engine change is far reaching but thats what the OP asked. Its not the issue if its spec for the G8 or not the G8 is a Zeta global platform and it was installed in a Commodore that is a Zeta car. I've got GM service manual that covers the SWB and LWB Aussie cars its not that hard.

What makes you think that a V8 engine swap will be any easier? Engine harnesses are compleatly different. Also how the engine harness connects to the vehicle harness, BCM, tranny, ect. How and if they will communicate with eachother, ect. All that requires digging into. Thats why I said a wrecked donor car is your best bet.

Wifes: 09 G8 Liquid Red w/mods
Mine: 04 GTO Quicksilver M12 w/mods
05 CTS-V

Last edited by gm4life; 07-29-2011 at 10:48 PM.
gm4life is offline  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-01-2011, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
I yam what I yam
 
Chief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 619
Wow, lots of thoughts here.

I'm not looking for a V8 swap. That would just make me another GT like evrey one else.

I'f I can get the dealer to swap in a Camaro DI V6, then great. If not, I'll have them put in another G8 V6. I'm not looking at spending any money on the car. It's my family ride. I'm just not satisified with the work they did in rebuilding the motor that's in the car now. Something is out of balance but I can't get them to fix it since no CEL is coming on. I've built enough motors in my time to know when something is wrong.

If I want to spend a bunch of money on a toy, it will be a Factory Five Racing Cobra Roadster replica, built in my garage by me, that will turn 11's all day long at the drags and can be driven there and back along with taken it to a road course and easily pulling 1G in the corners. That's my next project when this car is paid off anyways.

My Rides:

'12 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 R Spec Titanium Gray 5.0L 429 HP. Lovin it.

'08 Magnetic Gray Metallic Sedan. V6, Sunroof, Comfort and Sound package. Debadged, GT Rear Tail Lights, Tinted windows, 35% rear, 50% front. Royal Purple oil and K&N oil filter. (GONE Lemon Law)

'06 Harley Roadglide.
95" kit w/ custom heads and 50 mm TB. 101 HP/ 104 TQ.Lot's of custom body work as well. And it's Built by ME.
Chief is offline  
post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 09:48 AM
Senior Member
 
zepcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 10,244
Garage
Awesome, was just trying to determine your direction and think "outside the box".

Best of luck getting what you want. Who knows, maybe you'll drive by a dealership and find a gently used low mileage GT that you just can't pass up someday in the future... then you can start fresh and enjoy what it seems that you are looking to do. Don't forget to demod yours and keep your vision clear.

Sorry that I tangentialized your thread; was unsure of your direction in the first place, as a DI v6 G8 would be a bastard child from then on, and would severely devalue due to non-standard setup which would be hard to support over time if there were any issues or turnover in ownership.

--zep


2009.1 ZEPCOM MGM G8 GT
Kooks LT's, SOLO HFC & Mach Unbalanced with J-pipes, SLP Tips.
Livernois tune, VCM, FE3's, full Holden blue gauges conversion, iphone on display. Daily Driver FTW
The ZEPCOM G8 was SOLO's test mule
www.youtube.com/zepcom

Bought 3/30/2009, retired 7/18/2017 at 136k miles, still strong. Been a great ride, she will be missed!
zepcom is offline  
post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
I yam what I yam
 
Chief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 619
I love thinking "out side the box" I do it all the time at work with a few other guys I work with. Sometimes, it works out and supprises our boss.

I'd love to have a DI V6 dropped in. It wouldn't bother me in the devalue or doing some extra work, I don't plan on selling the car. And working on something "different" than the norm is right up my alley.

I built a 600HP/600TQ 383 stroker SBC with a B&M 144 blower on top. Dropped it in a beat up '63 Cheby truck and had a blast with it as a sleeper. So doing things out side of the norm is usual for me.

Dropping a V8 in the car may be more power, but would be a lot more work than dropping a DI V6. Plus GM has already built a twin turbo set up for the Camaro DI V6 so the parts/techonology is there. They did this for Jay Leno for SEMA a few years back. Again, thinking "out side the box".

Now if I can just get the dealer to go along with my plan. Probaly won't happen, but I'm working with them to at least FIX my current engine problem.

My Rides:

'12 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 R Spec Titanium Gray 5.0L 429 HP. Lovin it.

'08 Magnetic Gray Metallic Sedan. V6, Sunroof, Comfort and Sound package. Debadged, GT Rear Tail Lights, Tinted windows, 35% rear, 50% front. Royal Purple oil and K&N oil filter. (GONE Lemon Law)

'06 Harley Roadglide.
95" kit w/ custom heads and 50 mm TB. 101 HP/ 104 TQ.Lot's of custom body work as well. And it's Built by ME.
Chief is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Pontiac G8 Forum: G8 Forums - G8Board.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome