Re: Rumors of my demise (G8 that is) - Page 2 - Pontiac G8 Forum: G8 Forums - G8Board.com
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post #21 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 08:00 AM
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Not to mention that the $11B that GM would have stolen was already cut in half as Chrysler tried to give better incentives for car buyers. So, GM was screwed one way or another. But, Chrysler's not sitting on easy street either.
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post #22 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 11:15 PM
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So if no Mopar $$ capture, the need for the Fed loan is even greater. And should be easier to prove. The deciding factor here is the identified 2.5 million in lost jobs should the auto industry fail. No way the new ObamaNation crew will let their savior's rep be tarnished right out of the box with an event so dire as 2.5 million unemployed within the first year of being in office. The loans will be made, the auto industry in the USA will continue, much the same as you see it today! Oh, and by the end of '10, you will see Chrysler become part of GM.
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post #23 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-09-2008, 11:38 PM
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So if no Mopar $$ capture, the need for the Fed loan is even greater. And should be easier to prove. The deciding factor here is the identified 2.5 million in lost jobs should the auto industry fail. No way the new ObamaNation crew will let their savior's rep be tarnished right out of the box with an event so dire as 2.5 million unemployed within the first year of being in office. The loans will be made, the auto industry in the USA will continue, much the same as you see it today! Oh, and by the end of '10, you will see Chrysler become part of GM.
I agree for the most part. GM can not be stupid about this. Daimler has destroyed what was only an OK lineup to begin with. GM and the gov will do the right thing here to try and save American companies/jobs. However, before this shake-up is over.GM will drastically downsize Chrysler, get rid of cars that don't sell and cars that have horrible track records with repairs (bye bye Sabering) lessing competition for GM cars left and allowing the factory's to be retooled to help GM. I think even Lee Iaccoca could not save Chrysler at this point (look at the product lineup) and although the truck line is great. Does a company that has a good truck lineup want to absorb this and watch existing sales suffer... Chrysler if it survives will be really small.
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post #24 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 08:17 AM
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The loans will be made, the auto industry in the USA will continue, much the same as you see it today! Oh, and by the end of '10, you will see Chrysler become part of GM.
I don't doubt the loans will be made. Obama has stated that he plans to help Detroit & appointed the governor of Michigan to his cabinet. I certainly hope that Chrysler can find a way to survive, without becoming a part of GM.

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I think even Lee Iaccoca could not save Chrysler at this point (look at the product lineup) and although the truck line is great. Does a company that has a good truck lineup want to absorb this and watch existing sales suffer... Chrysler if it survives will be really small.
I think the right person with the right strategy could save Chrysler. The bigger problem is Cerberus doesn't want to wait out the storm. Cerberus doesn't want to continue to put money into Chrysler. If Chrysler needs to downsize, fine. Just so long as they aren't part of GM & are still owned by an American entity.
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post #25 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 02:48 PM
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Even if they do get the loans it seems that GM will not survive.

They have only enough money to last till December, even if the gov do bail them out it will be only a band aid fix...

GM needs change. But i think it's too late by the articles going around.

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post #26 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 03:03 PM
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Once the economy stabilizes and the credit lines open up, things will look better. I was lucky to have a credit union for my G8GT. It was easy plus my credit score did not hurt matters. WHen I bought my G8 in august, it was like a parade as someone bought a car, now can only be worse as the dealer is a Chryco/Pontiac/GMC dealer.

However the American auto indusrty is too large an impact to let slide. Millions of people would be out of work, and since even import makes sales are down, there is no place for them to go. Every sector has lost jobs. I am in telecom and we have been hit.

Net is once the credit becomes fluid, the dust settles, all those who are libving with the current cars and doing repairs, will come knocking, just a matter of time.

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post #27 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 04:15 PM
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Even if they do get the loans it seems that GM will not survive.

They have only enough money to last till December, even if the gov do bail them out it will be only a band aid fix...

GM needs change. But i think it's too late by the articles going around.
I posted in another thread that if GM doesn't learn how to quit flushing money down the toilet, then they would be wasting the loan money that "We The People" paid. Don't think for one second that any automaker (domestic or import) is "too big to fail". Remember the old saying; the bigger they are, the harder they fall.
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post #28 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-10-2008, 08:27 PM
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I posted in another thread that if GM doesn't learn how to quit flushing money down the toilet, then they would be wasting the loan money that "We The People" paid. Don't think for one second that any automaker (domestic or import) is "too big to fail". Remember the old saying; the bigger they are, the harder they fall.
What is this reverse Happy Face time? I'm all for reality, but come on! Everybody deserves a chance to do what they have proven they can do well. In most opinions, GM can build cars well. There are factors at work in their business, unrelated to their ability to build cars, that have worked against them, and their bottom line. They will need some support in order to make it through this period, and past the factors related to their loosing money, at which time it will be up to them to have in place the needed business plan to go forward and prosper.
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post #29 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 08:58 AM
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What is this reverse Happy Face time? I'm all for reality, but come on! Everybody deserves a chance to do what they have proven they can do well. In most opinions, GM can build cars well. There are factors at work in their business, unrelated to their ability to build cars, that have worked against them, and their bottom line. They will need some support in order to make it through this period, and past the factors related to their loosing money, at which time it will be up to them to have in place the needed business plan to go forward and prosper.
I'm all for supporting GM, but they appear to be spread out so thin that they can easily break. Are any of those non business related factors now gone or soon to be gone?
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post #30 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 12:14 PM
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GM needs to get down to at MOST 3 lines... no more Acadia/Outlook/Traverse/Enclave stuff.

1 Division for trucks... GMC and SUV's

Chevrolet for entry level cars.... Pontiac or Buick for Mid level cars and Cadillac for upper level cars...

Do it now and close a lot of plants or try to hang on and end up closing them all later.
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post #31 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 12:22 PM
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GM needs to get down to at MOST 3 lines... no more Acadia/Outlook/Traverse/Enclave stuff.

1 Division for trucks... GMC and SUV's

Chevrolet for entry level cars.... Pontiac or Buick for Mid level cars and Cadillac for upper level cars...

Do it now and close a lot of plants or try to hang on and end up closing them all later.
One reason why GM has no plans to close any divisions is because of Oldsmobile. When GM shut them down, the dealers who were selling Olds products sued. GM lost that fight & are fearful of losing another fight should they try to shut down another. Sadly, if GM went to one brand selling trucks, it will most likely be Chevy, not GMC. The Chevy brand has more sales outlets. In some smaller towns/cities, there is a Chevy dealership, but no GMC dealership. Another town in my county is like that. Smyrna, TN (where Nissan builds car & trucks) has a Chevy store. No Ford, no Dodge or Chrysler, no import new car dealers either. Any customer that wants anything other than Chevy has to drive to Murfreesboro or Nashville.
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post #32 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 12:28 PM
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One reason why GM has no plans to close any divisions is because of Oldsmobile. When GM shut them down, the dealers who were selling Olds products sued. GM lost that fight & are fearful of losing another fight should they try to shut down another. Sadly, if GM went to one brand selling trucks, it will most likely be Chevy, not GMC. The Chevy brand has more sales outlets. In some smaller towns/cities, there is a Chevy dealership, but no GMC dealership. Another town in my county is like that. Smyrna, TN (where Nissan builds car & trucks) has a Chevy store. No Ford, no Dodge or Chrysler, no import new car dealers either. Any customer that wants anything other than Chevy has to drive to Murfreesboro or Nashville.

Good point on the number of dealers... Bye Bye GMC then. Only Chevy sells trucks now.

I understand about them suing, but if GM goes out of business, then who's left to sue?

If I were GM I'd take my chances...


Look at the companies that are making it. Honda.... they have two main brands here.... Honda and Acura...

Toyota.... Scion/Toyota/Lexus
Nissan.... Nissan/Inifiniti

Please don't go under GM.

If GM does go under, where will we get parts for our cars?
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post #33 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 01:05 PM
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I understand about them suing, but if GM goes out of business, then who's left to sue?
If the dealers sue & GM has to pay out, then they can't pay their bills & will go bankrupt. See how this is a double-edged sword?

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If GM does go under, where will we get parts for our cars?
Some aftermarket companies will pick up the slack. Small engine, transmission, suspension parts will be built be companies that have their parts sold at auto parts stores. Body panel molds will most likely be picked up by reproduction/restoration companies (especially for the trucks & Camaro). Several companies sell better versions of performance parts (heads, cams, intakes, etc.). On the cylinder heads, I'm sure most take new castings & port them. Some companies (Edelbrock comes to mind) will cast totally new head designs.
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post #34 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 01:12 PM
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Seriously doubt GM will go under. Its too much of a financial opportunity for investors to pass up. they know certain platforms, and/or vehicles will be profitable to keep on the market. I agree there will be cuts in name brands and production.
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post #35 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 02:09 PM
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If the dealers sue & GM has to pay out, then they can't pay their bills & will go bankrupt. See how this is a double-edged sword?
My point exactly. If I were GM, I'd take my chances.... for sure doing nothing to your product line is going to cause you to go under... I'd take my chance in court.


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Some aftermarket companies will pick up the slack. Small engine, transmission, suspension parts will be built be companies that have their parts sold at auto parts stores. Body panel molds will most likely be picked up by reproduction/restoration companies (especially for the trucks & Camaro). Several companies sell better versions of performance parts (heads, cams, intakes, etc.). On the cylinder heads, I'm sure most take new castings & port them. Some companies (Edelbrock comes to mind) will cast totally new head designs.

I just don't see this happening... I mean those parts manufacturers exist soley to provide parts for cars going down an assembly line (in most cases). They are geared up to make a profit on producing 1,000,000 cylinder heads... not 10,000. I'm not talking about Edelbrock here but the suppliers to GM. They will not continue to make parts for the existing cars cause there's not enough demand for them to make money to do so.
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post #36 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 02:22 PM
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GM needs to get down to at MOST 3 lines... no more Acadia/Outlook/Traverse/Enclave stuff.

1 Division for trucks... GMC and SUV's

Chevrolet for entry level cars.... Pontiac or Buick for Mid level cars and Cadillac for upper level cars...

Do it now and close a lot of plants or try to hang on and end up closing them all later.
And forget about the ST. Take about a limited market.
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post #37 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 02:37 PM
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I just don't see this happening... I mean those parts manufacturers exist soley to provide parts for cars going down an assembly line (in most cases). They are geared up to make a profit on producing 1,000,000 cylinder heads... not 10,000. I'm not talking about Edelbrock here but the suppliers to GM. They will not continue to make parts for the existing cars cause there's not enough demand for them to make money to do so.
Point taken. You were looking from a suppliers point of view. I was looking at John Q. Public's much smaller point of view.

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And forget about the ST. Take about a limited market.
Alright, we get it. You don't like the ST. Let's move on.
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post #38 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 02:38 PM
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post #39 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 02:58 PM
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I think now would be a good time for Wagoner (sp) to either leave or take a $1/year salary like Ioccoca did.
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post #40 of 99 (permalink) Old 11-11-2008, 07:12 PM
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Toyota.... Scion/Toyota/Lexus
Nissan.... Nissan/Inifinit

If GM does go under, where will we get parts for our cars?
In an effort to take the top spot, Toyota is spread way too thin as well...they are seriously over extended. We will start hearing news about their troubles within a quarter or two. Their sales have been dropping faster than GM by some accounts.

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